Are front wheel drive cars boring?

[qaz393]

Are they boring? They seem to have less appeal to me now.

[Jon04CTS]

Very. Unless you're a high school kid and like parking brake turns.

[qaz393]

Very. Unless you're a high school kid and like parking brake turns.

do u drive ur cts-v in the winter too?

[Jon04CTS]

do u drive ur cts-v in the winter too?

No I drive my CTS in the winter.

[Kunman]

nooo...I think a small engine front wheel drive car could be fun to drive. not the same fun as a rwd in the mountain roads, carving corners, but like a silly kinda fun in the city

[ichpen]

Some tremendously fun fwd cars out there. Unfortunately none of the insane euro hatchbacks have made it here.

[illmdxthat]

I've only had FWD and AWD, never had RWD. I wouldn't say FWD is boring but RWD isn't good in our climate.

[qaz393]

I've only had FWD and AWD, never had RWD. I wouldn't say FWD is boring but RWD isn't good in our climate.

hasty conclusions? i actually thing RWD is ideal and fun for out winters......

[mr_raider]

Fun FWD cars:

Régal GS
S60 t5
TSX v6
Optima SX

[qaz393]

Fun FWD cars:

Régal GS
S60 t5
TSX v6
Optima SX

understeer

[mmretlol]

I think they are about as fun to drive as a RWD car in reverse

I think they are about as fun to reverse as a RWD car in drive

[flyz]

The fwd cars we get here? Yes.
I wouldn't mind driving those insane euro fwd hatches

[tebore]

Fun FWD cars:

Régal GS
S60 t5
TSX v6
Optima SX

As much as I love those cars.... They're pretty boring to drive compared to the RWD/AWD equivalents in their class(Or it's a boring class).

Sad because a Regal GS with AWD would have been AWESOME.

[Tornado F2]

The fwd cars we get here? Yes.
I wouldn't mind driving those insane euro fwd hatches

We need some pics of these "insane" cars so we can see what you're on about.

And to make this thread less boring.

[tebore]

We need some pics of these "insane" cars so we can see what you're on about.

And to make this thread less boring.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/02/15/2015-ford-focus-rs-to-get-five-doors-turbo-four-and-active-nois/

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/02/2011-focus-500rs.jpg

Ford RS (Also known as the SVT Euro focus or various other names I lost track thanks to World naming) is and has always been the poster child for hot hatches we never get.

Jetta-R, Scirocco R the R32. (I know some of these are AWD but I wish we had them)

[Canuck_2k]

I had this

neon SRT-4 more than 400fwhp and ran mid 11's in the quarter

it was a blast!

http://www.24designs.net/images/categories/dodge_neon_srt-4+front_side_view.jpg

it was fun to drive on shannonville private lapping days too.

[qaz393]

this makes possibly two interesting fwd cars.


http://www.autoblog.com/2012/02/15/2015-ford-focus-rs-to-get-five-doors-turbo-four-and-active-nois/

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/02/2011-focus-500rs.jpg

Ford RS (Also known as the SVT Euro focus or various other names I lost track thanks to World naming) is and has always been the poster child for hot hatches we never get.


I had this

neon SRT-4 more than 400fwhp and ran mid 11's in the quarter

it was a blast!

http://www.24designs.net/images/categories/dodge_neon_srt-4+front_side_view.jpg

it was fun to drive on shannonville private lapping days too.

[ssbtech]

Everytime I think of FWD cars I think of this...

http://www.handicappedpets.com/images/stories/denaliSm.jpg

The only difference being that you can still love a handicapped dog.

[Tornado F2]

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/02/15/2015-ford-focus-rs-to-get-five-doors-turbo-four-and-active-nois/

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/02/2011-focus-500rs.jpg

Ford RS (Also known as the SVT Euro focus or various other names I lost track thanks to World naming) is and has always been the poster child for hot hatches we never get.

Jetta-R, Scirocco R the R32. (I know some of these are AWD but I wish we had them)

That's a good start. I want a set of those red seats for my hatch. :D

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2011-ford-focus-rs500-europe/#photo-2841843/

[Tornado F2]

I get the idea now - Euro rally cars. Here's one that I don't think we've seen on this side of the pond yet: Skoda Fabia S2000.

http://www.automania.be/files/Image/SKODA/FABIA%20SUPER%202000/2009/Skoda-FABIA-S2000-2009-03.jpg

They look to have come a long way since they were last sold here.

[qaz393]

I get the idea now - Euro rally cars. Here's one that I don't think we've seen on this side of the pond yet: Skoda Fabia S2000.

http://www.automania.be/files/Image/SKODA/FABIA%20SUPER%202000/2009/Skoda-FABIA-S2000-2009-03.jpg

They look to have come a long way since they were last sold here.

but thats a race car, totally different from street cars.

[lordnikon]

Not as boring as you might think.

Euro spec Golf GTI
Ford Focus RS500
Renault Megane RS
Renault Clio Sport RS
Honda Civic Type-R

Too bad most don't make it here.

[qaz393]

Not as boring as you might think.

Euro spec Golf GTI
Ford Focus RS500
Renault Megane RS
Renault Clio Sport RS
Honda Civic Type-R

Too bad most don't make it here.

they dont make it here, but the badges do....

[Flyer]

Acura Integra Type R
Chevrolet Cobalt SS t/c
Honda Civic SiR
Honda CRX Si
Mazdaspeed 3
Mini Cooper S

[ryosayku]

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1/flamezilla5/fwdsucks.jpg

[Rainne]

Nose heavy.

Feels like the car is dragging you (lack of control) vs. pushing you (frees up front for control)

[warpdrive]

The old Integra Type R was a really fun car to drive. FWD hot hatches are very fun to drive (many mentioned already). But I will always prefer RWD and AWD cars. In summer RWD for me, and I have a AWD winter car.

[sickcars]

FWD cars can be fun to drive if you have the right car & a few things done to it.

I have a 2007 VW GTI, around 260hp+ & 300tq+, Loads of fun to drive with all the tq especially.

But you cant expect a stock FWD kia to be fun.

[spike1128]

Qaz, is it boring to drive your FWD minivan? That will answer your question about; is FWD boring?

[qaz393]

Qaz, is it boring to drive your FWD minivan? That will answer your question about; is FWD boring?

some say its a gtr chassis underneath

[sickcars]

some say its a gtr chassis underneath

Lmaooo :D

[ToniCipriani]

I've only had FWD and AWD, never had RWD. I wouldn't say FWD is boring but RWD isn't good in our climate.
I drive a RWD convertible with no traction control nor stability control and a stick shift through snow storms.

Tip: there's something called winter tires.

[coriolis]

With the Focus ST and Veloster Turbo coming out within the year, there is a few more options for those who want hot hatches. Currently the Mini Cooper S/JCW, Mazdaspeed 3 and the GTI are the only 'hot hatches' that we have available.

[ToniCipriani]

With the Focus ST and Veloster Turbo coming out within the year, there is a few more options for those who want hot hatches. Currently the Mini Cooper S/JCW, Mazdaspeed 3 and the GTI are the only 'hot hatches' that we have available.

Abarth 500. I've seen them on the roads.

[coriolis]

Abarth 500. I've seen them on the roads.

Right, I forgot about it. Too bad the Dodge Dart doesn't have a SRT4 version, right up their alley too.

[DJ_Peanuts22]

Abarth 500. I've seen them on the roads.

+1

Mean exhaust note.


Right, I forgot about it. Too bad the Dodge Dart doesn't have a SRT4 version, right up their alley too.

That might not be too far off into the future.

[garyhudson]

Abarth 500. I've seen them on the roads.

Ah. As top gear stated, the 500 Abarth isnt very hot. A Fiat worthy of the hot hatch title is the Punto Abarth.


Its not FF is boring, its just a lot of FF cars are tuned to have little or no driving stimulus, classical case is the Toyota Corolla/Prius, or the Toyota Previa for the minivan class. Fun FF cars: Any (mildly hot) hatchback from Europe/Japan, ITR, Accord Euro Rs etc

[qaz393]

fiat abrath 500c is not a hatchback.

[spike1128]

some say its a gtr chassis underneath

I am sure it also has DSG / ATTESSA-ETS fitted to that minivan as well. Quest GTR.

[qaz393]

I am sure it also has DSG / ATTESSA-ETS fitted to that minivan as well. Quest GTR.

all cars do once you put a gtr badge on it......

[ToniCipriani]

Ah. As top gear stated, the 500 Abarth isnt very hot. A Fiat worthy of the hot hatch title is the Punto Abarth.


Its not FF is boring, its just a lot of FF cars are tuned to have little or no driving stimulus, classical case is the Toyota Corolla/Prius, or the Toyota Previa for the minivan class. Fun FF cars: Any (mildly hot) hatchback from Europe/Japan, ITR, Accord Euro Rs etc

Well if you follow Top Gear so religiously, then the most fun FF car ever would be the Fiat Panda Twinair Turbo. Complete with a 600cc 69hp engine and a fat family in the backseat. :D

I've driven the regular 500, it's already reasonably quick.

[garyhudson]

Well if you follow Top Gear so religiously, then the most fun FF car ever would be the Fiat Panda Twinair Turbo. Complete with a 600cc 69hp engine and a fat family in the backseat. :D

I've driven the regular 500, it's already reasonably quick.

well i didnt say i follow Top Gear religiously, so dont quote me for something I didnt say XD. James only said the Twinair is a nice cheap car with reasonably fun chassis tuning and driving fun, not The MOST fun FF car......


For me, it has to be the VW Golf GTI. Best hot hatch in my short list......

[Jon04CTS]

Right, I forgot about it. Too bad the Dodge Dart doesn't have a SRT4 version, right up their alley too.

Fiat and Chrysler boss Sergio Marchionne has confirmed Dart SRT.

[r1lee]

not when you go backwards at full speed.. lots of fun.

RWD cars are boring when ^^^ is attempted.

[Tornado F2]

Nose heavy.

Feels like the car is dragging you (lack of control) vs. pushing you (frees up front for control)

I've driven both. For our Canadian winters FWD is the winner all the way. I did a 180 spin on ice once when I was driving RWD (luckily nobody else was nearby on the road at the time) but I've never had a problem since I switched to FWD. In the winter, during snowfall, I can drive down the near-empty passing lane on the highway while all the other vehicles, including the RWDs, are bunched up in the slow lane. That's the difference the added traction makes.

[Rainne]

I've driven both. For our Canadian winters FWD is the winner all the way. I did a 180 spin on ice once when I was driving RWD (luckily nobody else was nearby on the road at the time) but I've never had a problem since I switched to FWD. In the winter, during snowfall, I can drive down the near-empty passing lane on the highway while all the other vehicles, including the RWDs, are bunched up in the slow lane. That's the difference the added traction makes.

It's called snow tires.

[Tornado F2]

Abarth 500. I've seen them on the roads.

A chick car is still a chick car. Easily forgettable.

[Tornado F2]

It's called snow tires.

I've never needed snow tires. Yet I have the snowy lane practically all to myself. :D

[Badman]

This type of thread keeps coming up.

Theres boring FWD cars along with boring AWD and RWD cars.


Also fun ones as well. The good FWD cars usually don't need to make much power to be fun where the bigger heaver cars need RWD to be fun.


I'm a fan of all platforms. Just depends on the type of car and what power it comes with along with your intentions of using it.

[qaz393]

This type of thread keeps coming up.

Theres boring FWD cars along with boring AWD and RWD cars.


Also fun ones as well. The good FWD cars usually don't need to make much power to be fun where the bigger heaver cars need RWD to be fun.


I'm a fan of all platforms. Just depends on the type of car and what power it comes with along with your intentions of using it.

what is a boring RWD??? i know the ford box van seems pretty good. V10 gas engine with LSD option. sounds more yummmy than a civic.

[mucat]

I did a 180 spin on ice once when I was driving RWD (luckily nobody else was nearby on the road at the time)


I've never needed snow tires. Yet I have the snowy lane practically all to myself. :D

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xTMo92akufc/TtUwDvThhUI/AAAAAAAAAWc/aOU0OB7YQvg/s400/contradictions.jpg


Anyway, I have done a 180 spin on ice WITH snow tires and FWD, so I have done worse. :D

[devil2k]

Ah. As top gear stated, the 500 Abarth isnt very hot. A Fiat worthy of the hot hatch title is the Punto Abarth.


695 Tributo Ferrari. They made / are making a Maserati version as well.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/08/abarth695tributo630.jpg

[falen55]

Funny how the Cobalt SS T/C will run circles around most of your "fun" RWD cars.

[devil2k]

A chick car is still a chick car. Easily forgettable.

Alonso and Massa are chicks?

http://www.motorward.com/wp-content/images/2010/09/Abarth-Tributo-Ferrari.jpg

[qaz393]

Alonso and Massa are chicks?

http://www.motorward.com/wp-content/images/2010/09/Abarth-Tributo-Ferrari.jpg

probably. they need to save weight.....

[blindemboss]

I think the Golf GTI and Jetta GLI are pretty fun FWD cars.

[greybrick]

I drive a GTI and it's more than enough car for me. It corners nicely even under moderate power and has a good amount of low end grunt for a four banger.

On the other hand, for ballers with the money to drop on a 335 or a Lexus IF 300 FWD is obviously beneath them. For most of us who aren't rolling in cash, FWD is a perfectly acceptable alternative to selling a lung, kidney (or both) in order to get enough cash to buy a well appointed RWD ride. Let's not forget that everyday folks also don't have the cash or time to be constantly be fighting tickets as they push their awesome FWD Corollas to the limit so the greatness of RWD would be pointless for us anyways. We'll just sit back and admire your awesome rides as you weave in and out of traffic.

[sickcars]

I drive a GTI and it's more than enough car for me. It corners nicely even under moderate power and has a good amount of low end grunt for a four banger.

On the other hand, for ballers with the money to drop on a 335 or a Lexus IF 300 FWD is obviously beneath them. For most of us who aren't rolling in cash, FWD is a perfectly acceptable alternative to selling a lung, kidney (or both) in order to get enough cash to buy a well appointed RWD ride. Let's not forget that everyday folks also don't have the cash or time to be constantly be fighting tickets as they push their awesome FWD Corollas to the limit so the greatness of RWD would be pointless for us anyways. We'll just sit back and admire your awesome rides as you weave in and out of traffic.


I got a GTI also,

Do you have a Flash on from a company like APR? If not I highly suggest you get one... Huge difference in power :)

[Tornado F2]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xTMo92akufc/TtUwDvThhUI/AAAAAAAAAWc/aOU0OB7YQvg/s400/contradictions.jpg


Anyway, I have done a 180 spin on ice WITH snow tires and FWD, so I have done worse. :D

Nice try with the editing, but if you read my posts correctly you should have seen that the 180 was with a RWD, and the no-need-for-snow-tires comment was since I switched to FWD. :D

As for my own 180, I can't recall exactly how I managed that on an empty road, other than the fact that I was going down a small hill. Possibly I slammed on the brakes then I noticed a snow-covered stop sign late or something. The odd thing is that that particular FWD car usually kept on going in a straight line when there was snow on the ground, even if I turned the wheels toward the side of the road. It was scary at times in stop/go traffic. THAT was the car I should have got snow tires for, but it was my first vehicle and I don't recall even hearing of snow tires at the time. We don't generally need them in urban areas in Niagara. We definitely didn't need them this winter. Thanks Alberta for all those warming greenhouse emissions. :)

[Tornado F2]

695 Tributo Ferrari. They made / are making a Maserati version as well.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/08/abarth695tributo630.jpg

Are they allowed to use the Ferrari name on an il crappo like that? Ferrara perhaps. Ferrari - no way!

[Tornado F2]

Alonso and Massa are chicks?

http://www.motorward.com/wp-content/images/2010/09/Abarth-Tributo-Ferrari.jpg

No idea, but their cars look like they should be driven by chicks.

There's good reason why Fiat/Chrysler used JLo in their ad and not Arnie. :D

[Tornado F2]

I drive a GTI and it's more than enough car for me. It corners nicely even under moderate power and has a good amount of low end grunt for a four banger.

On the other hand, for ballers with the money to drop on a 335 or a Lexus IF 300 FWD is obviously beneath them. For most of us who aren't rolling in cash, FWD is a perfectly acceptable alternative to selling a lung, kidney (or both) in order to get enough cash to buy a well appointed RWD ride. Let's not forget that everyday folks also don't have the cash or time to be constantly be fighting tickets as they push their awesome FWD Corollas to the limit so the greatness of RWD would be pointless for us anyways. We'll just sit back and admire your awesome rides as you weave in and out of traffic.

The best RWD cars have their engine towards the back too. See Porsche. Even the underpowered Skodas of the 70s/80s made decent rally cars because the engine sat above the drive wheels. Modern FWD cars take that same traction advantage.

[cloakster]

FWD cars are not boring....RWD cars are just much more fun :)

For those who are saying RWD is useless in our climate, have you driven a RWD car in the snow before with good snow tires? Ive done it many times and it is obviously not as good, but in no way was it hard or dangerous to drive.

[nismo-gtr]

define boring. most hondas are front wheel drive
if you want the omph. tried 4 wheel drive or FR

[ryosayku]

FWD cars are not boring....RWD cars are just much more fun :)

For those who are saying RWD is useless in our climate, have you driven a RWD car in the snow before with good snow tires? Ive done it many times and it is obviously not as good, but in no way was it hard or dangerous to drive.

He knows what he's talking about.

[Caesu]

Are they allowed to use the Ferrari name on an il crappo like that? Ferrara perhaps. Ferrari - no way!

Fiat is the parent company of Ferrari.

[devil2k]

Funny how the Cobalt SS T/C will run circles around most of your "fun" RWD cars.

I know Cobalt SS is a fast car but with all things being equal (to a certain degree) with the exception of RWD, Cobalt SS would be even more fun to drive.


FWD cars are not boring....RWD cars are just much more fun :)

For those who are saying RWD is useless in our climate, have you driven a RWD car in the snow before with good snow tires? Ive done it many times and it is obviously not as good, but in no way was it hard or dangerous to drive.

This +1

I passed my road test the day after a huge blizzard in a 325i RWD with over 5 inches of fresh snow on top of ice. I was a noob way back then and didn't know that I was driving a RWD or the difference between FWD / RWD / AWD. It was fine for city driving.

[UrbanPoet]

I used to have the same 'omg RWD so scary in the winter' mentality.
Then I bit the bullet and bought a RWD sport sedan. Never looked back!

It isn't too bad as long as you keep a few salt bags in the trunk and winter tires from Dec-Apr.
But you gotta know what you're doing thats for sure.

[mucat]

Nice try with the editing, but if you read my posts correctly you should have seen that the 180 was with a RWD, and the no-need-for-snow-tires comment was since I switched to FWD. :D

As for my own 180, I can't recall exactly how I managed that on an empty road, other than the fact that I was going down a small hill. Possibly I slammed on the brakes then I noticed a snow-covered stop sign late or something. The odd thing is that that particular FWD car usually kept on going in a straight line when there was snow on the ground, even if I turned the wheels toward the side of the road. It was scary at times in stop/go traffic. THAT was the car I should have got snow tires for, but it was my first vehicle and I don't recall even hearing of snow tires at the time. We don't generally need them in urban areas in Niagara. We definitely didn't need them this winter. Thanks Alberta for all those warming greenhouse emissions. :)

With modern safety features like VSC/TSC/ABS/EBD + snow tires, it is very safe to drive a RWD vehicle on snow or ice. You really have to do things outside of the realm of common sense to get yourself into trouble.
Of course, common sense is a rare commodity nowadays.

I sort of agree with what cloakster said. FWD can be fun but it is just RWD is more fun.

[flyz]

I drive a RWD convertible with no traction control nor stability control and a stick shift through snow storms.

Tip: there's something called winter tires.

And skill, which there is not much on the roads today. Just look at the dashcam thread.

[flyz]

With RWD oversteering, just steer with your right foot. POWERRRRRRR

[Tornado F2]

Fiat is the parent company of Ferrari.

Maybe, but if they do that enough they'll end up seriously diminishing the value of the Ferrari brand.

Imagine if Volswagen (or whoever the current owner is) decided to stick Bentley badges and branding on their econo hatchbacks. Who in their right mind would pay crazy money for a Bentley then? Fiat sound like they're doing the same thing with Ferrari.

[Tornado F2]

I sort of agree with what cloakster said. FWD can be fun but it is just RWD is more fun.

If you want a fun drive, it's not the location of the drive wheels that matters so much as the presence of this:

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/stick_shift.jpg

My FWDs have all been stick, so that could be the main reason why I enjoy driving them more.

[Badman]

yep...I would have more fun in a FWD stick shift car then a Autotragic RWD car.

[mucat]

yep...I would have more fun in a FWD stick shift car then a Autotragic RWD car.

Some "Autotragic" can shift faster then any human. Also, manual and RWD are not mutually exclusive.

The fun thing about RWD is you can use the gas pedal to turn. And in winter time, the effect is exaggerated making it even more fun.

[devil2k]

If you want a fun drive, it's not the location of the drive wheels that matters so much as the presence of this:

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/stick_shift.jpg

My FWDs have all been stick, so that could be the main reason why I enjoy driving them more.


So cars that shift with these are boring?

http://jdmfactory.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/f1steering-wheel.jpg

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200912/renault-twingo-rs-r2-1_600x0w.jpg

http://photos.evo.co.uk/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_625/car_photo_312760_12.jpg

[Tornado F2]

Some "Autotragic" can shift faster then any human. Also, manual and RWD are not mutually exclusive.

The fun thing about RWD is you can use the gas pedal to turn. And in winter time, the effect is exaggerated making it even more fun.

Fast shifting doesn't make automatics FUN. Just easier. And drivers lazier.

As for your second sentence, you use your gas pedal while driving FWDs through turns too. The only difference is that the wheels pull, rather than pushing. Like in good old horse-drawn chariots. :D

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yZYWAfKfDLU/Two274pbO-I/AAAAAAAAAs8/nyP9AKtWIGY/s1600/32a-ben-hur%255B1%255D.jpg

[fivesolas]

So cars that shift with these are boring?

yes.
no toe & heel / rev matching = boring

[Tornado F2]

yes.
no toe & heel / rev matching = boring

That first one looks confusing too. More like a 1950s military radio or something with all those switches.

[devil2k]

1st one is a F1 racing wheel with two clutch buttons.
2nd one is a rally car with a clutch.
3rd one is a Bugatti Veyron, one of the fastest production car.


yes.
no toe & heel / rev matching = boring

You can heel & toe in the 2nd one. Not sure if you've seen a rally car driver's foot work, it's insane.
The 3rd one rev-matches for you.


Fast shifting doesn't make automatics FUN. Just easier. And drivers lazier.


If easier = lazier = less fun, then you won't find anything funner to drive than a F1 or a proper rally car, assuming you can keep it on the road that is.


That first one looks confusing too. More like a 1950s military radio or something with all those switches.

I thought you like it hard instead of easy ;)

[ichpen]

Maybe, but if they do that enough they'll end up seriously diminishing the value of the Ferrari brand.

Imagine if Volswagen (or whoever the current owner is) decided to stick Bentley badges and branding on their econo hatchbacks. Who in their right mind would pay crazy money for a Bentley then? Fiat sound like they're doing the same thing with Ferrari.

There's no maybe. Fiat has owned Ferrari since 1969.

Guess these guys have got it all wrong:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Aston_Martin_Cygnet_(82).JPG/250px-Aston_Martin_Cygnet_(82).JPG

Or these:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_LhfyrLAErKk/TCZ-DHYbJUI/AAAAAAAAB1o/rltRSKbcYEE/s1600/Mercedes%2BA-Class%2B1.jpg

[Tornado F2]

I thought you like it hard instead of easy ;)

I like to keep my eyes on the road when driving, not looking down to see which switch I need to turn next. :lol:

That first one looks like a poorly-designed over-complex game controller from the late 90s. :)

Besides, it's not so much that I want things hard rather than easy. It's more that I want to be in control of things. When I bought my first SLR I could have switched it to "P" mode and let the camera do all the thinking for me, but I preferred to use the semi-automatic settings where I had full control of the aperture or the shutter speed. I like to have a similar degree of control over my car. Not so much that it becomes difficult and hard work, but enough to keep my brain occupied and aware of what settings are in use.

[Tornado F2]

Guess these guys have got it all wrong:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Aston_Martin_Cygnet_(82).JPG/250px-Aston_Martin_Cygnet_(82).JPG

Or these:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_LhfyrLAErKk/TCZ-DHYbJUI/AAAAAAAAB1o/rltRSKbcYEE/s1600/Mercedes%2BA-Class%2B1.jpg

Oh no, Aston Martin have been stuck with a Smart too? :facepalm:

I read that GM once had the brilliant idea of creating a version of the same car for each of its divisions. The result was the Cadillac Cimarron - a tarted up Cavalier. Needless to say, it flopped, and probably played a role in moving US car owners toward the competing foreign brands.

http://www.productioncars.com/send_file.php/ad_cadillac_cimarron_red_1985_3.jpg

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTq21rwS1Zb_gDhxquw5ZxYJiaUELyAv 0H7HKoA29PJJTEYV0xJXAnstyEOZA

http://vintage-original-ads.com/Pictures/albums/uploads/normal_1984-Cadillac-Cimarron-Touc.jpg

[devil2k]

Oh no, Aston Martin have been stuck with a Smart too? :facepalm:


It's a rebranded Toyota iQ called Cygnet. They need it to meet emission standard and I don't think you can buy one without actually owning a real Aston.

[Tornado F2]

It's a rebranded Toyota iQ called Cygnet. They need it to meet emission standard and I don't think you can buy one without actually owning a real Aston.

If you drive an Aston Martin you're not going to want one of them anyway. Not even for your spouse or kids. In fact especially not for them. Unsafe at any price imho. 4 seats, but barely enough room for 2 adults. Packed with up to 13 airbags because there's practically no room for crumple zones. You'd be way better off buying a Sonic or something, likely for less than the Scion version too.

[mebiuspower]

I had this

neon SRT-4 more than 400fwhp and ran mid 11's in the quarter

it was a blast!

http://www.24designs.net/images/categories/dodge_neon_srt-4+front_side_view.jpg

it was fun to drive on shannonville private lapping days too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxvgUWXNBQc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckvcvCztJH0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bq0FFsXpuI

[mr_raider]

So cars that shift with these are boring?



Dude stop wasting your time. Everyone knows that the only real driver's car is a car with a manual and RWd. As such, God's chariot is a base 323i, with manual, fake leather, and 16 inch wheels. It's what real men drive.

[greybrick]

The Mazdaspeed 3 is notorious for its torque steer. While most FWD cars do suffer from some torque steer, rarely is it as jarring or sudden as what you would find in the Mazda.

[mebiuspower]

The Mazdaspeed 3 is notorious for its torque steer. While most FWD cars do suffer from some torque steer, rarely is it as jarring or sudden as what you would find in the Mazda.

Most high horsepower FWD cars have severe torque steer, it's just simple physics.

[Tornado F2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bq0FFsXpuI

That led to this ridiculous clip. The fool damages his front bumper just reversing out of his driveway. :facepalm:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BwRFdy06JA4

Some stupid ideas should remain stupid ideas. :)

[mucat]

Fast shifting doesn't make automatics FUN. Just easier. And drivers lazier.

Fast shifting (regardless of auto or manual) is always more fun.




As for your second sentence, you use your gas pedal while driving FWDs through turns too. The only difference is that the wheels pull, rather than pushing. Like in good old horse-drawn chariots. :D

It is a huge difference (actually completely opposite) between inducing oversteering (RWD) and inducing understeering (FWD) with the gas pedal. One allows you to go through a corner faster and the other makes you plow straight through and off the road.

[sandikosh]

Fast shifting (regardless of auto or manual) is always more fun.




It is a huge difference (actually completely opposite) between inducing oversteering (RWD) and inducing understeering (FWD) with the gas pedal. One allows you to go through a corner faster and the other makes you plow straight through and off the road.

But ain't that fun?

[mucat]

But ain't that fun?

Yes to putting the power down around the corner in a RWD.

[flyz]

Fast shifting (regardless of auto or manual) is always more fun.




It is a huge difference (actually completely opposite) between inducing oversteering (RWD) and inducing understeering (FWD) with the gas pedal. One allows you to go through a corner faster and the other makes you plow straight through and off the road.

Hey, nothing wrong with seeing the tree that you're about to hit (FWD understeering).

[mucat]

Hey, nothing wrong with seeing the tree that you're about to hit (FWD understeering).

Ha ha, good one. The real difference is seeing the tree you are about to hit or not.

[flyz]

Ha ha, good one. The real difference is seeing the tree you are about to hit or not.

Found the bit from Top Gear.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoICf55jED8

[RGGG]

Depends on the car...my 69 and 76 Austin/Leyland Mini's are easily loads more fun to drive than most other FWD cars I've driven...and on the track, I've yet to see the RWD car that can keep up the pace through corners...in the end, depends on the car!

[Tornado F2]

Depends on the car...my 69 and 76 Austin/Leyland Mini's are easily loads more fun to drive than most other FWD cars I've driven...and on the track, I've yet to see the RWD car that can keep up the pace through corners...in the end, depends on the car!

And - most importantly - the driver. :D

[Tornado F2]

Found the bit from Top Gear.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoICf55jED8

LOL. Wondered why you guys were running into so many trees. :lol:

[GSpeed]

Funny how the Cobalt SS T/C will run circles around most of your "fun" RWD cars.

so true, but man when your passing an m3 that cost 70k or w/e when you are in a 20k fwd car.... they aren't to happy about that lol

[AudiDude]

Depends on the car...my 69 and 76 Austin/Leyland Mini's are easily loads more fun to drive than most other FWD cars I've driven...and on the track, I've yet to see the RWD car that can keep up the pace through corners...in the end, depends on the car!

Well to be fair, those cars are a lot smaller and weigh less. Could you beat this with its 165hp? It's rwd and returns the favour of being even smaller as the cars you speak:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxNbeecxnGM&feature=related


so true, but man when your passing an m3 that cost 70k or w/e when you are in a 20k fwd car.... they aren't to happy about that lol

How many 20K rwd cars are there? So now you know why it has to be a more expensive car you are passing. I think we like to forget that not all the "70K" just went into the motor and transmission, but the whole car.

If what you think is true, let's see in 20 years if you still want to drive souped up rattle boxes that don't provide as much driving pleasure or if you'd like the M3 you make fun of now. There is a reason why cars like the M3 exist and people buy them. I f I bought a used car from the 80's and spent less than 20K and beat you with it, the first thing you would pick on are its looks and interior and build quality. Guess what the difference is between a 20K econobox and a 70K M3?

I don't even want an M3, but give credit where it is due.

[GSpeed]

How many 20K rwd cars are there? So now you know why it has to be a more expensive car you are passing. I think we like to forget that not all the "70K" just went into the motor and transmission, but the whole car.

If what you think is true, let's see in 20 years if you still want to drive souped up rattle boxes that don't provide as much driving pleasure or if you'd like the M3 you make fun of now. There is a reason why cars like the M3 exist and people buy them. I f I bought a used car from the 80's and spent less than 20K and beat you with it, the first thing you would pick on are its looks and interior and build quality. Guess what the difference is between a 20K econobox and a 70K M3?

I don't even want an M3, but give credit where it is due.

woah..... when did I state anything about interior/build quailty etc?

This thread is about fwd cars being boring, I'm stating the opposite when my fwd car can go around an M3...

On to another topic, if I want an M3 I can go buy one tomorrow not a big deal...

Souped up rattle box? It's pretty damn stock..?
I get tons of driving pleasure, passing a car that cost 50k more then me

I don't know what your getting at?

Want to play more FR-S no problem.... Genesis No problem.. miata no problem

[greybrick]

Well to be fair, those cars are a lot smaller and weigh less. Could you beat this with its 165hp? It's rwd and returns the favour of being even smaller as the cars you speak:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxNbeecxnGM&feature=related



How many 20K rwd cars are there? So now you know why it has to be a more expensive car you are passing. I think we like to forget that not all the "70K" just went into the motor and transmission, but the whole car.

If what you think is true, let's see in 20 years if you still want to drive souped up rattle boxes that don't provide as much driving pleasure or if you'd like the M3 you make fun of now. There is a reason why cars like the M3 exist and people buy them. I f I bought a used car from the 80's and spent less than 20K and beat you with it, the first thing you would pick on are its looks and interior and build quality. Guess what the difference is between a 20K econobox and a 70K M3?

I don't even want an M3, but give credit where it is due.

Not all of us have the scratch to invest in a $70k car. RWD cars may be the better platform, but this thread is nothing more than an opportunity for rich ballers to mock other drivers for not having an expensive set of wheels. Honestly, I know that many of you guys are rich and you have great rides. Is it really necessary to dump on everybody else for not being as fortunate?

The real difference between a $20k econobox and an M3 is $50k. For most people that's a lot of money. FWD cars probably aren't good enough for rich folks like yourself, but for most people we get by just fine and enjoy our rides for what they are.

[AudiDude]

woah..... when did I state anything about interior/build quailty etc?

This thread is about fwd cars being boring, I'm stating the opposite when my fwd car can go around an M3...

On to another topic, if I want an M3 I can go buy one tomorrow not a big deal...

Souped up rattle box? It's pretty damn stock..?
I get tons of driving pleasure, passing a car that cost 50k more then me

I don't know what your getting at?

Want to play more FR-S no problem.... Genesis No problem.. miata no problem

That is the whole point, you didn't. I said the 70k for the car was invested in the quality of the whole car. It's not fair to pick on it for one aspect ignoring it for all of the other things it excels at and then point at the price. If the 20K car was just as good, you could never sell the 70K car to anybody but people looking to be different (not that some of the people that own said cars don't do that). Your list of "want to play more" is a much better comparison than picking on an M3.


Not all of us have the scratch to invest in a $70k car. RWD cars may be the better platform, but this thread is nothing more than an opportunity for rich ballers to mock other drivers for not having an expensive set of wheels. Honestly, I know that many of you guys are rich and you have great rides. Is it really necessary to dump on everybody else for not being as fortunate?

The real difference between a $20k econobox and an M3 is $50k. For most people that's a lot of money. FWD cars probably aren't good enough for rich folks like yourself, but for most people we get by just fine and enjoy our rides for what they are.

I don't have the money for a 70k car either, or if I did, I wouldn't spend it on a car. I like to buy mine off lease or relieve someone from their lease. I save up and pay cash. I don't like payments. I can't lease a car and drive around something that is depreciating faster than I can make the lease payments it would put me in a bad mood until the debt was gone. I am not paying $40k for a leased car. Work two-three jobs and save up. I mentally can't plunk down the minimum and just make payments, I'd be depressed every day.

Either way, I personally don't like torque steer, tiny cars that I don't fit in, cheap paint (a lot of cheaper cars have very thin paint), thin metal (ding really easy) and interiors made from cheap materials that wear out fast. I've got no issues with anybody that can take it, but don't compare it to a premium car like an M3 and boast about the difference in cost unless you want to provide a comparison list of all features . I've driven cars that handle that weren't fast (1986 Golf with cage that was raced at Shannonville) that could drive around the best cars you could purchase at the time and I've driven cars faster than the best cars you could buy at the time. At no time did I point out that someone with an overall nicer car feels pangs of jealousy because he paid more than I did and lost at one aspect I chose to use.

Now talking about torque steer, why is it so bad still in a Mazda? When they were using the Mazda platform in the Ford Probe Turbo GT the things used to dart off the road and the owner would smack the car up (was good for me, my buddy at the dealership would get me the tires off the car for free). In 1989 Ford used a halfshaft in the SHO that was hollow to counter the torque steer issue (can't remember what side it was on). This for the most part seems to fix the problem. Even older Acuras weren't that bad. Mazda hasn't improved??

[falen55]

woah..... when did I state anything about interior/build quailty etc?

This thread is about fwd cars being boring, I'm stating the opposite when my fwd car can go around an M3...

On to another topic, if I want an M3 I can go buy one tomorrow not a big deal...

Souped up rattle box? It's pretty damn stock..?
I get tons of driving pleasure, passing a car that cost 50k more then me

I don't know what your getting at?

Want to play more FR-S no problem.... Genesis No problem.. miata no problem

Exactly. And in 20 years I wouldn't want to touch either one of the cars, be it the M3 or the "econobox".

[dealseeker2011]

Yes, they are boring. I prefer SUV's

[GSpeed]

That is the whole point, you didn't. I said the 70k for the car was invested in the quality of the whole car. It's not fair to pick on it for one aspect ignoring it for all of the other things it excels at and then point at the price. If the 20K car was just as good, you could never sell the 70K car to anybody but people looking to be different (not that some of the people that own said cars don't do that). Your list of "want to play more" is a much better comparison than picking on an M3.



I don't have the money for a 70k car either, or if I did, I wouldn't spend it on a car. I like to buy mine off lease or relieve someone from their lease. I save up and pay cash. I don't like payments. I can't lease a car and drive around something that is depreciating faster than I can make the lease payments it would put me in a bad mood until the debt was gone. I am not paying $40k for a leased car. Work two-three jobs and save up. I mentally can't plunk down the minimum and just make payments, I'd be depressed every day.

Either way, I personally don't like torque steer, tiny cars that I don't fit in, cheap paint (a lot of cheaper cars have very thin paint), thin metal (ding really easy) and interiors made from cheap materials that wear out fast. I've got no issues with anybody that can take it, but don't compare it to a premium car like an M3 and boast about the difference in cost unless you want to provide a comparison list of all features . I've driven cars that handle that weren't fast (1986 Golf with cage that was raced at Shannonville) that could drive around the best cars you could purchase at the time and I've driven cars faster than the best cars you could buy at the time. At no time did I point out that someone with an overall nicer car feels pangs of jealousy because he paid more than I did and lost at one aspect I chose to use.

Now talking about torque steer, why is it so bad still in a Mazda? When they were using the Mazda platform in the Ford Probe Turbo GT the things used to dart off the road and the owner would smack the car up (was good for me, my buddy at the dealership would get me the tires off the car for free). In 1989 Ford used a halfshaft in the SHO that was hollow to counter the torque steer issue (can't remember what side it was on). This for the most part seems to fix the problem. Even older Acuras weren't that bad. Mazda hasn't improved??

your still not following me and this thread lol.... I never said the M3 is a bad car, or overpriced <- it is though lol
The whole point of this was like the title of the thread states Are front wheel drive cars boring? I was just trying to make apoint that they are not lol
I'm not trying to get into an e-war with you, I know what you are trying to say lol... if it helps the M3 is a nicer car than my cobalt :)
and I agree I don't like tq steer either, I'm short so no problem with tiny cars, cheap paint.. you got it wrong "or cheaper cars paint".. days of good paint is over when it became water based, metal.. I can't agree or disagree...and wrong about the interior wearing out... plastic doesn't wear out LOL leather does..

now for the torque steer aspect, it's so bad in the mazda because 280ftlbs of tq is to much for the car/chassis/suspension to handle...

[Tornado F2]

The way cars depreciate (and decompose) here in Canada, there's little reason to spend more than you need to on a car. Instead of paying $70k for a leather-lined shiny black and chrome sedan, why not buy a nice, but modest, plastic-lined shiny black and chrome sedan for $20k? They'll both be worth the same ($0) in 15 years, but the guy buying the $20k car has $50k to invest, earn some interest, spend on a nice TV, furniture, vacations - heck, even a home extension - and possibly still have enough left over to buy a similar car for the spouse! :lol: You could even use the money to buy yourself an older "classic" car to fool around in on the weekends. Throwing away silly amounts of money for an overpriced luxury car is just dumb. There are some good cars out there for $20k if you keep your expectations in check, which are capable of good and reliable performance, even if they don't have all the (mostly unnecessary) luxury features.

[mucat]

The way cars depreciate (and decompose) here in Canada, there's little reason to spend more than you need to on a car. Instead of paying $70k for a leather-lined shiny black and chrome sedan, why not buy a nice, but modest, plastic-lined shiny black and chrome sedan for $20k? They'll both be worth the same ($0) in 15 years, but the guy buying the $20k car has $50k to invest, earn some interest, spend on a nice TV, furniture, vacations - heck, even a home extension - and possibly still have enough left over to buy a similar car for the spouse! :lol: You could even use the money to buy yourself an older "classic" car to fool around in on the weekends. Throwing away silly amounts of money for an overpriced luxury car is just dumb. There are some good cars out there for $20k if you keep your expectations in check, which are capable of good and reliable performance, even if they don't have all the (mostly unnecessary) luxury features.

Because of LG.

[iEyeCaptain]

Because of LG.

no mb, no lg

[niroopg]

The way cars depreciate (and decompose) here in Canada, there's little reason to spend more than you need to on a car. Instead of paying $70k for a leather-lined shiny black and chrome sedan, why not buy a nice, but modest, plastic-lined shiny black and chrome sedan for $20k? They'll both be worth the same ($0) in 15 years, but the guy buying the $20k car has $50k to invest, earn some interest, spend on a nice TV, furniture, vacations - heck, even a home extension - and possibly still have enough left over to buy a similar car for the spouse! :lol: You could even use the money to buy yourself an older "classic" car to fool around in on the weekends. Throwing away silly amounts of money for an overpriced luxury car is just dumb. There are some good cars out there for $20k if you keep your expectations in check, which are capable of good and reliable performance, even if they don't have all the (mostly unnecessary) luxury features.

People that buy 70K sedans don't typically need the 50k. If you are buying a 70k car and need the 50k, then you deserve to go bankrupt.

[Rainne]

Lol..

You can't really compare a 20k car with a 70k car..

People who do that have no passion for driving / automobiles. They see a car as a place to get from Point A to Point B.

It's like clothing,

Why do some people spend much more than others? It's because they have an appreciation for it.

I guess it's having standards.

[Albin]

If the FWD got a turbo then it's fun to drive.

I had a '99 BMW 323i which was lowered and it was awesome around corners but poor acceleration. My 2003 Jetta 1.8T with Revo chip has a lot of low end torque so in straight lines and on highway there's a nice pull to it but poor in cornering.

If I were to choose between the two it would be hard.

[Rainne]

If the FWD got a turbo then it's fun to drive.

I had a '99 BMW 323i which was lowered and it was awesome around corners but poor acceleration. My 2003 Jetta 1.8T with Revo chip has a lot of low end torque so in straight lines and on highway there's a nice pull to it but poor in cornering.

If I were to choose between the two it would be hard.

Get a 335i ;)

[Albin]

Get a 335i ;)

I would love one, best of both worlds, unfortunately my bank account says YAH RIGHT! KEEP DREAMING BUDDY.

[GSpeed]

Lol..

You can't really compare a 20k car with a 70k car..

People who do that have no passion for driving / automobiles. They see a car as a place to get from Point A to Point B.

It's like clothing,

Why do some people spend much more than others? It's because they have an appreciation for it.

I guess it's having standards.

really .... intresting how the fr-s and br-z is being compared to the cayman?
so because I would rather drive a z06 or 911 or gtr than veryon... I have no passion for driving?

[zonetbh]

cobalt ss / neon srt4

cheap fwd turbo sleepers, fun to drive

[Rainne]

really .... intresting how the fr-s and br-z is being compared to the cayman?
so because I would rather drive a z06 or 911 or gtr than veryon... I have no passion for driving?

Don't get me wrong, I thought 20k Eco cars were being compared to 70k sports cars and concluding they're the "same" driving experience.

There are plenty of cars in the 20-30k range cars that are fun to drive, for example, the MX-5 and GTI.

[mucat]

cobalt ss / neon srt4

cheap fwd turbo sleepers, fun to drive

Now, (if you can) imagine they were powered from the rear instead... Even more fun!!!!
But no one is going to say imagine a mustang GT with FWD....

BTW, cobalt ss and SRT4 are a sick cars.

[GSpeed]

Don't get me wrong, I thought 20k Eco cars were being compared to 70k sports cars and concluding they're the "same" driving experience.

There are plenty of cars in the 20-30k range cars that are fun to drive, for example, the MX-5 and GTI.

lol.... no audidude thought I was originally comparing my cobalt to an M3.. as a whole package, GTI isn't "that' fun to drive, it's nice to drive mx-5 is fun to drive



Now, (if you can) imagine they were powered from the rear instead... Even more fun!!!!
But no one is going to say imagine a mustang GT with FWD....

BTW, cobalt ss and SRT4 are a sick cars.

Yes, I love the SRT4...at least dodge is bringing it back unlike stupid GM.. they spent so much money on R&D on that car.. they bring it out for 3 years barley advertise it.. then bring out the cruze... nothing wrong with the cruze but common even the focus has more power/get's better mileage

[yummie]

For fun, rwd is your best bet

My experience in fwd cars was constant velocity joint partially separated from tranny, snapped in half sway bar, blown out wheel bearings, front end alignment issues...All these issues were because I like to corner very hard, however the brakes would somewhat hold up and steering was somewhat okay....

As to rwd, the only bad experience was we blew out the rear end in a Camaro and we had to put in a 9 inch Ford rear end....

I cant drive a fwd vehicle the way I drive a rwd..I feel like I have to baby the fwd or something will break....

[GSpeed]

For fun, rwd is your best bet

My experience in fwd cars was constant velocity joint partially separated from tranny, snapped in half sway bar, blown out wheel bearings, front end alignment issues...All these issues were because I like to corner very hard, however the brakes would somewhat hold up and steering was somewhat okay....

As to rwd, the only bad experience was we blew out the rear end in a Camaro and we had to put in a 9 inch Ford rear end....

I cant drive a fwd vehicle the way I drive a rwd..I feel like I have to baby the fwd or something will break....

you must have had a bad car... Other than tires and brakes my car has 54k, and 1 alignment done..... and has seen a dozen or so full track days

[yummie]

you must have had a bad car... Other than tires and brakes my car has 54k, and 1 alignment done..... and has seen a dozen or so full track days

On a track, there is no such thing as a 90 degree turn:D....I think I have owned over 7 or 8 different fwd vehicles, and always had issues with the front end..I know I was to blame because it was my driving... I don't think anybody here would lend me there fwd vehicle..

[Tornado F2]

People that buy 70K sedans don't typically need the 50k. If you are buying a 70k car and need the 50k, then you deserve to go bankrupt.

I've noticed that most people in expensive cars seem to be lousy drivers. I always wonder how they managed to come up with the money given how moronic they seem to be. There must be a lot of inheritance money out there.

[zonetbh]

Now, (if you can) imagine they were powered from the rear instead... Even more fun!!!!
But no one is going to say imagine a mustang GT with FWD....

BTW, cobalt ss and SRT4 are a sick cars.

You don't buy a cobalt ss and a srt4 because you want a rwd. For most people they're just all season cars with some bite, but still decent in the snow. You can't really argue with the price:power ratio of those cars, they're too cheap to come awd, so the next best thing for an all-season friendly car is fwd.

I agree with your assessment on RWD but my personal taste in RWD cars are not driveable in the winter, in my opinion. I have taken my mr2 out in February before. Never again.

[mebiuspower]

I've noticed that most people in expensive cars seem to be lousy drivers. I always wonder how they managed to come up with the money given how moronic they seem to be. There must be a lot of inheritance money out there.

Driving skill is a requirement to become a basketball player, doctor, lawyer, politician...etc...?

[mucat]

I agree with your assessment on RWD but my personal taste in RWD cars are not driveable in the winter, in my opinion. I have taken my mr2 out in February before. Never again.

Modern RWD cars are very easy to drive even in winter (you still need winter tires). All the computerized/electronic/magic safety controls will keep the car on the road as long as you don't do anything too stupid.