Is Volkswagen really as unreliable as people say?

[Gunnerheadboy]

Interested in buying a VW Golf, something between '02-'06. But all keep seeing are threads on different websites where people talk about the unreliability of a VW. Is it this true? I think the Golf looks awesome and drives well, but if I'm gonna be stuck with something that I have to repair all the time and just sink money into it I wanna stay away. Or should I stick Toyota and Honda? Boring cars but proven reliability IMO.

[thelefteyeguy]

JD Power Survey

[new_vr]

The honda or corolla will be more reliable
If you get a vw, I think the most important thing is find a good VW mechanic (specialist), that makes a big difference

[bpeanut]

VW typically ranks near the top on worst cars to buy used. I work with a guy who likes VWs. He told me that everytime he has bought one, he has had to take it to his buddy to have the electrical fixed up.

[Gunnerheadboy]

That's too bad to hear. 'Cause for the prices I'm looking at the VW is so fun to drive. Corolla and Civic aren't, but they do get the job done.

[gilboman]

Interested in buying a VW Golf, something between '02-'06. But all keep seeing are threads on different websites where people talk about the unreliability of a VW. Is it this true? I think the Golf looks awesome and drives well, but if I'm gonna be stuck with something that I have to repair all the time and just sink money into it I wanna stay away. Or should I stick Toyota and Honda? Boring cars but proven reliability IMO.

the newer VW's are better..but that's not saying much because they were/are so horrible. They've been at bottom of every and all reliability/dependability surveys for more than a decade. Don't let all the impending fanboys tell you otherwise, they'll tell you how all the studies for all the years are incorrect, how VW's are fine etc

But if you must buy a VW, but atleast a MKV or later which are not as horrible for reliabilty ...a 02-06 is not, just walk away unless you are a diehard VW fan

[gilboman]

That's too bad to hear. 'Cause for the prices I'm looking at the VW is so fun to drive. Corolla and Civic aren't, but they do get the job done.

any mazda will be infinitely more fun to drive than any VW. Reliability is a bit better than VW too but not good.

[ToniCipriani]

Didn't you know the Corowraa is the official ka of RFD? :cheesygri

[spike1128]

That's too bad to hear. 'Cause for the prices I'm looking at the VW is so fun to drive. Corolla and Civic aren't, but they do get the job done.

Not sure if others talking about previous generations. I think the Mark V - Mark VI are quite reliable, just not as reliable as a Toyota or Honda. I am not sure we can say how reliable a Toyota or Honda is now, since their quality has gone down hill for the last generation.

I do realize sometimes there are problem with electronics like the radio not working correctly. Little problems here and there.

[Gunnerheadboy]

I guess I'll stick to the Cororras and the like.

[Kunman]

hi, bought the last model year before the facelift 07 tourge 4.2 v8 new....zero problems except for a faulty warning light, but i dont drive it much only 60000 km on it right now.

buying from the last model year is a must in the family now and it makes sense because all of the previously known problems are fixed.

also, the v8 4.2 has been in the vw family for two generations before I made the purchase, so its a tried and tested engine...thus my information might be biased.

[Albin]

hi, bought the last model year before the facelift 07 tourge 4.2 v8 new....zero problems except for a faulty warning light, but i dont drive it much only 60000 km on it right now.

buying from the last model year is a must in the family now and it makes sense because all of the previously known problems are fixed.

also, the v8 4.2 has been in the vw family for two generations before I made the purchase, so its a tried and tested engine...thus my information might be biased.

I have a 2003 Jetta 1.8T, so far no electrical problems or any major problems whatsoever (knocking on wood). With that said I know people with the 2000 model and had crap loads of trouble with it. Probably fixed them all by the time I got it. It's luck I guess.

[gilboman]

I have a 2003 Jetta 1.8T, so far no electrical problems or any major problems whatsoever (knocking on wood). With that said I know people with the 2000 model and had crap loads of trouble with it. Probably fixed them all by the time I got it. It's luck I guess.

nope, not fixed. It's not luck..it's probability. Probability are higher you will have problems with a VW, that is a fact and backed by science. but that doesnt mean all VW's will have problems. Just like smoking a pack a day, snorting coke and eating bacon and fries daily won't mean you will die younger than someone with healthier habits, just means you have a probability to die sooner.

Samething with VW.

People's individual experience on some message board is meaningless.. studies like JD, and etc are not. Unless you somehow have a sample of 60,000 VW owners on here posting their experiences lol

[Ojam]

http://images.dealer.com/jdpa/charts/2012008-1.jpg

VW = 1.7 problems per car on average
Honda = 1.3 problems per car on average
Toyota = 1 problem per car on average

When you break it down, it's really not a huge difference. The key is knowing what you are buying and being aware.

[macnut]

Others may disagree with me, but in my experience, if you get a (rare) problem with a Toyota or Honda, it's likely to be major (like engine sludge or failed A/T).

With VWs, you are more than likely going to get a lot of small problems only ( electrical and electronic malfunctions, ancillary components that might be hard to diagnose but not too expensive to replace).

So VWs can be a good buy for a knowledgeable person who has the ability and facilities to DIY, but not for the average RFD'er unless you budget for somewhat above-average maintenance and repair costs.

You have to balance those downsides against the clear upsides (the driving experience, good ergonomics, inspired styling, fit and finish, style).

If you are not sure and have to ask, probably best to stay with a used Corolla.

[SkylineR34X]

When buying 02-06 model years there are many factors to consider than just brands

1. Does the car you look at have full service history? German cars in general are very sensitive to maintenance. ie. If you treat Honda/Toyota poorly, it may not be too bad, but if you treat a VW badly, s*** is gonna happen. So make sure the car you buy has full service history.

2. Engine differences. VW has many different engine choices, 2.0L, 1.8T, 2.8, TDI; In general, the 2.0 tends to be more reliable than the others, but it is slow.

3. Equipment/Trim. Common sense, if 100 things in the car is electric, those 100 things can potentially go wrong; if you have no option/feature, there is nothing to go wrong.

4. What do you value in a car the most? Quality of material? Reliability? Handling? Speed? Style? VW gives you EXCELLENT (at least in the 02-06) interior feel (similar to a BMW, everything is soft touch, the centre console tilts towards the driver), and great handling. The whole car feels upscale (closer to a 3 series BMW than a Civic/Mazda3/Corolla); The trade off is reliability.

If I have the time, I will pick a VW Jetta/Golf over a comparable Corolla/Civic any day. I'm sure there are others out there who will argue the opposite. So it's up to you to decide what you value more. Remember though, buying used is always a gamble, you may end up with a lemon Corolla or a ultra-reliable VW (just that the odds favor Japanese for reliability)

[sickcars]

One of the best things you can do is once you find the year/model of a car you like is go on VW forums like vwvortex.com and post asking all the known issues with the car. Then you can see if its major issues, how easy is it to fix etc etc and from there you can decide if its worth it. Before I bought my VW GTI I did the same thing this way I know all the known problems with the car and I can do certain things to Prevent them from happening. This way there are no surprises.

Keep in mind, every car will have problems, the key is to do research before buying them so you can avoid them if possible. But other then that VW are great cars and very fun to drive. It's worth the little extra you may pay overtime.

[Anonymouse]

Many many VWs are sold in Germany, where they are inspected every year by an agent of the German government. They perform excellently, with almost no safety concerns discovered. This is the "science." If you read the ADAC (German analogue of the CAA) surveys, you find that VWs perform very well. Very few Germans drive ***** like Corollas (if they even sell them there, I have never seen one).

Even within US publications, if you get an online membership to Consumer Reports, you will see that the Golf TDI is the top pick in its class, and has an almost perfect reliability rating.

[Averatized]

I wouldn't say "unreliable", per say.... More like "tempermental" LOL

I always tell potential VDubbers - if you're the kind of person that just drives a car until something breaks, don't bother. But if you are somebody that will care for it, and follow the maintenance schedule - then get a GLI

[dshiu]

Don't know about a golf but we have a 2010 Tiguan (currently at 75k km)
- headlights went out twice
- fuel door got stuck once and wouldn't pop out, fixed at dealership and never happened again
- car stalled a few times, had hpfp replaced and never happened again
- error message came on and told me that the passenger side signal bulb went out, went to VW dealership right away and they actually told us the fuse box melted =\ 5-6 other bulbs (turn signals, headlights, brake lights, etc) also needed to be replaced because of that (shorted or something)

Luckily we never had to pay for any of those because it's a lease. But if we pass 80k (which is soon) we're out of luck if anything goes wrong...
All in all it's a good car, wouldn't mind leasing another but never buying a VW

So there's my personal experience with VW. Good luck on your purchase!

[izzyzz]

It's a good idea to look at individual models as opposed to the entire brand. Many VW models are terrible in terms of reliability, but current Golf is quite reliable. Can't quite compete with the Japanese, but you do get better interior, styling (matter of opinion of course), a very solid construction feel and fun to drive factor.

[Avatar]

http://images.dealer.com/jdpa/charts/2012008-1.jpg

VW = 1.7 problems per car on average
Honda = 1.3 problems per car on average
Toyota = 1 problem per car on average

When you break it down, it's really not a huge difference. The key is knowing what you are buying and being aware.

And the Infiniti is worse than VW according to the chart. I owned a Chrysler before and it was really bad. Took me from point A to B but had small problems once a while and was really annoying. Still got lots of them on the road. You can put up with VW if you own a Chrysler.

[IMWHFMPC]

a merc might be better to buy just looking from the chart

[Muney]

VW's from the early 2000's back have been known to easily go to 400,000kms+ with no problems what so ever. So yes, VW's are super reliable engine (TDI) and body wise. The thing that they get knocked for is their electrical system, which is the reason for the problems in the JD power bull shite report, since they've been caught taking money to test cars and rank them better than other ones that didn't pay...). They do have some electrical gremlins, but nothing to make the car undriveable, just little annoying things. My daily driver Jetta will only power lock on the passenger side so you have to manual lock the drivers side. Sometimes the automatic one click window on the passenger side front wont roll up all the way, only half.... stuff like that.

If you;re buying a used one then there could be some problems, but all in all they're on of the best mechanical cars out there. Now that they is a ton of them on the road they;re not much more expensive to fix or find parts for. Back in the early 90's they were still relatively rare, so everything was more expensive. This "con" has stuck with them for some reason.

Anyone who disses VW has never owned and driven one.

[niroopg]

On a postiive note, the latest gen Jetta's a straight rip of the Audi A4 and BMW 335ci and look pretty stylin'.

[HandsomeRob]

Took a 2001 Golf past 300k without major issue except a thirst for oil. 1/4 quart per month or so.

Nobody has said it but parts cost more. Thin brake rotors, special tools, non-standard sensors...

[mr_raider]

Many many VWs are sold in Germany, where they are inspected every year by an agent of the German government. They perform excellently, with almost no safety concerns discovered. This is the "science." If you read the ADAC (German analogue of the CAA) surveys, you find that VWs perform very well. Very few Germans drive ***** like Corollas (if they even sell them there, I have never seen one).

Even within US publications, if you get an online membership to Consumer Reports, you will see that the Golf TDI is the top pick in its class, and has an almost perfect reliability rating.

This again. The German technical inspection is a snapshot in time that measures road worthiness. If you read the TÜV list of items, it is mostly a check of function, like lights, suspension, brakes, etc... It says nothing about what was done to the car before the inspection, and it's highly likely that most owners fixed all issues before the tuv inspection, so they would pass. If the owner rebuild the tyranny twice a year, the TUV couldn't care less.


Here is a tuv report for 6 year old cars. Notice the dominance of *****.

http://www.anusedcar.com/index.php/tuv-report-year-age/2011-6-7/300

[IMWHFMPC]

VW are like Audis... problems all the time, my friend's TT been in the dealership for repairs more than 10 times since he got his brand new car 2 years ago. So if you buy one, better buy a new one so warranty covers most of the repairs. That's what i would do at least. Never buy a high mileage VW, Audi or BMW.

[br0pbr0p]

If you are worry about reliability, buy the last model year. Most issues will be fixed by then. My parents got a last model B6 A4 that's over 8 years old now, barely any problems (spark plug is all I can remember, and some minor recalls/TSB). The car was left exposed to winter for many years parking outside (frozen over a couple of times), but my parents do service it religiously.

Generally, German car requires you to actually give a damn about it. If you ignore regular services, put in cheaper gas, high rev from cold starts, then you are more likely to get issues. You can probably get away with more of these with a Japanese car. Listen to your car's sounds, noticing subtle changes to your car will save you a lot of potential troubles, and that goes for any car.

Lastly, definitely find a good mechanic. If you are buying used, just bring it to a shop like Independent Tuning and have them look at it and browse car forums. The information on those will provide far greater information than what you will find on here. Lots of the people commenting here probably never owned a German car, let alone a VAG car and is just going on hearsay or what these BS reliability reports say(they are so meaningless, but if that's your cup of tea, go for it). Over the years, my family has had mostly German cars and from each of the 3 main brands. There are some good and a few bad, you just have to be prepared. If money is tight, I wouldn't suggest it but they are well worth it for the drive imho. I can't really speak about Corolla or Civic.. last time I drove it was 10 years ago doing my G2 and boy was it slow and boring....(good thing for a driving test, not so much for daily use)

Btw, I really suggest the TDI because that engine is a tank. Will cost more on maintenance but will last longer and save you gas over time.

[VICTOR KWAN]

Unless your buying a German made TDI i'd shy away from VWs. Most are Mexican made(poor quality),unreliable and cost a fortune to fix.
I know a few people who had them and will never buy another.

[Gunnerheadboy]

Thanks for the replies, guys. What do you all think about a 2004-2006 Mazda3? Are they any more reliable? I heard they cost less on insurance than even Cororra and Civic. How do they compare in reliability? Thanks!

[aubgray]

my neighbor has a golf city. it's base model (standard, no air) but he hasn't had any problems in 5 years.

a friend of my FIL had a v6 jetta std. in over 300K i think he just had to fix a couple window motors.

sample size of 2. LOL

[Kunman]

from the vehicle dependability chart porsche is ranked number 2...highest in the vw family.

porsche and vw probably share some parts...but why is porsche ranked soo much higher? I don' think 50 years of refinment could be used as a argument here. Because porsche sells more caynnees ( which is the same platform with q7 and toureag) than 911s.

[ravenorxs]

from the vehicle dependability chart porsche is ranked number 2...highest in the vw family.

porsche and vw probably share some parts...but why is porsche ranked soo much higher? I don' think 50 years of refinment could be used as a argument here. Because porsche sells more caynnees ( which is the same platform with q7 and toureag) than 911s.

Even though one is the parent company of the other, I'm pretty sure their management and production methods are vastly unique and different. The track record of one is not necessarily the track record of the other.

[mr_raider]

from the vehicle dependability chart porsche is ranked number 2...highest in the vw family.

porsche and vw probably share some parts...but why is porsche ranked soo much higher? I don' think 50 years of refinment could be used as a argument here. Because porsche sells more caynnees ( which is the same platform with q7 and toureag) than 911s.

Why is Cadillac better than chevy. Cars may share the same platform but have many different components from different sources and different assembly points. It only takes one sloppy supplier to muck up a model.

[gizmo8]

VW is solid mechanically but the sensors and electrical is mostly the issues....

[mr_raider]

VW is solid mechanically but the sensors and electrical is mostly the issues....

Is this a mechanical or electrical problem:

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/29/vw-audi-settle-class-action-suit-over-engine-sludge/

[BingoRingo]

Thanks for the replies, guys. What do you all think about a 2004-2006 Mazda3? Are they any more reliable? I heard they cost less on insurance than even Cororra and Civic. How do they compare in reliability? Thanks!

Rust, rust and more rust! That doesn't mean you shouldn't buy the car, but if you do make sure it has received an antirust treatment.

Depending on your budget, a Chevrolet Cobalt might be what you're looking for. The quality was not bad, it has the Ecotec engine, which is really good, and its resale value is so low that if you have a decent vehicle, the worst thing that will happen, a major repair will cost you your savings. Plus most american cars are cheaper to fix than imports. If you want some power, get the Cobalt SS that has 200 hp, however, make sure the previous owner treated it well or you might end up with a lemon with engine or tranmission issues $$$$$.

[Gunnerheadboy]

Rust, rust and more rust! That doesn't mean you shouldn't buy the car, but if you do make sure it has received an antirust treatment.

Depending on your budget, a Chevrolet Cobalt might be what you're looking for. The quality was not bad, it has the Ecotec engine, which is really good, and its resale value is so low that if you have a decent vehicle, the worst thing that will happen, a major repair will cost you your savings. Plus most american cars are cheaper to fix than imports. If you want some power, get the Cobalt SS that has 200 hp, however, make sure the previous owner treated it well or you might end up with a lemon with engine or tranmission issues $$$$$.

Thanks man! Found a few in my price range. But I also found a few Acuras in my price range too (1.7 EL).

[rotjong]

I have a 2002 VW jetta with 250000km on it, the thing has never missed a beat it is a great solid car, my wife has a cobalt, it is a 2004 and that thing is so cheaply build i don't even like driving it.

just a few days ago I saw a Mazda 3 sport and it looked like a newer one I couldn't believe the rust it already had on it.

[iLLNESS]

i own a 06 TDI and in my experience it's not so much the car itself, more so the dealer who repairs it. i was watching the miles on my car waiting for it to be out of warranty. i've had to take it to the dealer for a warranty wheel bearing repair and was quite unhappy. i told them straight up what the problem is and they still didnt fix it. what they did fix was not covered in warranty and charged me (only like $50) for it.. took it back right away and THEN they fixed it under warranty once i reassured them of the problem. that, and among other things ive had my ex gf take her TDI in for i was disgusted by their work.

i now maintain the car on my own and have no issues with it. VW's certainly are finicky, but in my case for the amount of work i actually have to do on it the 1000km/tank is worth the odd VW problem.

but again, as mentioned before, if you are the type of person to drive your car until something breaks (which no one should really ever do to begin with) then a VW may not be for you. if you don't intend on servicing the car like you're supposed to buy a disposable car.. pretty much anything you can buy for 20k brand new fits into this category.

[craftsman]

i own a 06 TDI and in my experience it's not so much the car itself, more so the dealer who repairs it.

+1

I think that's a good reason for a lot of the issues. The cars are made to the same design specs all over the world unfortunately, the dealers aren't. I have a friend who owned a Golf and took it to every dealer in the Lower Mainland to repair the car. He would bring it in to dealer A to fix issue X only to find out that issue Y showed up very soon after the visit. So, thinking that dealer A didn't do a good job, he took it to dealer B to fix issue Y only to find out that issue Z show up very soon after that visit... After awhile, he visited every dealer in the Lower Mainland and then sold the car since he couldn't get everything working on it for any reasonable length of time.

[BryceS]

Don't buy a VW if you only make repairs when something breaks...these cars will kill you in repairs if this is how you view what owning a car should be. Maintenance is key. Oil changes every 16,000km like clockwork. Changing oil too soon on TDIs can actually cause damage.
Buy a TDI.
Never get an automatic transmission from VW.
35 years of VWs in the family.

I've personally clocked over 400,000km in TDIs since I purchased my first TDI when I was 16. (Currently 22)


Whenever I'm suffering from Insomnia, I just look at a picture of a Toyota Camry and I'm straight off.
- Jeremy Clarkson

You'll see most complaints are high trim, automatic, gasser models that are usually owned by people who don't enjoy driving. Therefore, they don't find value it in and usually poor drivers.

You'll be looking to spend about $6000-$7000 for a clean MKIV TDI.
2003 5speed manual is the best MY to purchase.

[Gunnerheadboy]

Don't buy a VW if you only make repairs when something breaks...these cars will kill you in repairs if this is how you view what owning a car should be. Maintenance is key. Oil changes every 16,000km like clockwork. Changing oil too soon on TDIs can actually cause damage.
Buy a TDI.
Never get an automatic transmission from VW.
35 years of VWs in the family.

I've personally clocked over 400,000km in TDIs since I purchased my first TDI when I was 16. (Currently 22)



You'll see most complaints are high trim, automatic, gasser models that are usually owned by people who don't enjoy driving. Therefore, they don't find value it in and usually poor drivers.

You'll be looking to spend about $6000-$7000 for a clean MKIV TDI.
2003 5speed manual is the best MY to purchase.

What's wrong with the automatic ones? Also, love the quote by Mr. Clarkson.

[BryceS]

What's wrong with the automatic ones? Also, love the quote by Mr. Clarkson.

They are slushy and fail early.

Especially the O1M transmissions in MKIVs

Newer DSGs have stupid high maintenance on them too every 40 or 60,000 km

[gilboman]

They are slushy and fail early.

Especially the O1M transmissions in MKIVs

Newer DSGs have stupid high maintenance on them too every 40 or 60,000 km

I think starting in MKV, VW's moved onto Aisin (japanese) units and those have fared better.

But the whole maintenance thing is nonsense, VW's are just more prone to problems and are unreliable regardless of maintenance. Just like any car, if you neglect it, you will have more problems, be it VW or Honda/Toyota. It's just VW's are more unreliable so while it maybe ok to skip some maintenance in a Corolla, do it in a VW and :cheesygri

VW's are worst to begin with, skip some maintenance or a bit late and all hell breaks loose lol

My MKV rabbit is the most reliable VW I've had (MKV GTI was a disaster), but it's still about 8x as unreliable as the family lexus and later acura and my first car, a toyota. Yes VW's have gotten better, but if reliability is a consideration, they aren't really worth recommending.

[liorsyncro]

A friend of mine had an '04 Jetta. She babied that car and bought it with only 15k on the odometer. Long story short, at 190k and while driving back home this spring, the transmission fell apart on the road. Ironically, the transmission was just serviced by the dealer probably just a month prior to that. She ended up selling the car with a dead transmission at a substantial loss..... and bought a 2012 Civic instead.

Bottom line is VWs may drive nice but like all German cars they are plagued with mechanical and electrical problems. If you buy it new, keep it until the warranty is up. Once it expires, get rid of that p.o.s. ASAP

[gilboman]

A friend of mine had an '04 Jetta. She babied that car and bought it with only 15k on the odometer. Long story short, at 190k and while driving back home this spring, the transmission fell apart on the road. Ironically, the transmission was just serviced by the dealer probably just a month prior to that. She ended up selling the car with a dead transmission at a substantial loss..... and bought a 2012 Civic instead.

Bottom line is VWs may drive nice but like all German cars they are plagued with mechanical and electrical problems. If you buy it new, keep it until the warranty is up. Once it expires, get rid of that p.o.s. ASAP

Well to be fair 190k is a decent amount of kms, tranny failing can happen to a Honda/Toyota at that mileage. If that was the only major thing wrong in a 04 Jetta after 190k kms... she's beat the odds and won the VW lottery!

[spike1128]

Well to be fair 190k is a decent amount of kms, tranny failing can happen to a Honda/Toyota at that mileage. If that was the only major thing wrong in a 04 Jetta after 190k kms... she's beat the odds and won the VW lottery!

Not to mention the girl bought it used at 15k. Maybe someone abused it in the first 15k then sold it to her.

[Muney]

A friend of mine had an '04 Jetta. She babied that car and bought it with only 15k on the odometer. Long story short, at 190k and while driving back home this spring, the transmission fell apart on the road. Ironically, the transmission was just serviced by the dealer probably just a month prior to that. She ended up selling the car with a dead transmission at a substantial loss..... and bought a 2012 Civic instead.


Bottom line is VWs may drive nice but like all German cars they are plagued with mechanical and electrical problems. If you buy it new, keep it until the warranty is up. Once it expires, get rid of that p.o.s. ASAP

Auto or Manual?

I've owned 2 Honda's that were the biggest POS and owned 2 Vw's that have been nothing short of amazing, so knocking German engineering as a whole is kind of stupid when they're known for reliability and quality.

[gilboman]

Auto or Manual?

I've owned 2 Honda's that were the biggest POS and owned 2 Vw's that have been nothing short of amazing, so knocking German engineering as a whole is kind of stupid when they're known for reliability and quality.

no they're not. Your personal experiences are irrelevant, it's collective that matters. That's why the germans are at best average in reliability in all studies for past 20 years or so. German engineering are a lot of things, reliability is not and quality hasn't been for the past decade or so.

[jferreir]

no they're not. Your personal experiences are irrelevant, it's collective that matters. That's why the germans are at best average in reliability in all studies for past 20 years or so. German engineering are a lot of things, reliability is not and quality hasn't been for the past decade or so.

And this is a perfect example of flawed reasoning. First, the OP is inquiring about a specific make/model/year, and not the quality of German engineered vehicles more generally. Second, you cannot discount the poster's personal experience when you yourself are relying on anecdotal evidence to support your claims. You claim that VW is known to be generally unreliable, yet what evidence do you offer in support of this claim? You reference "all studies in the past 20 years", yet you do not identify a single study, you do not provide the VW data from those studies, you do not differentiate between different models/years, and you do not identify or discuss the different methodologies used. In short, you are relying on anecdotal evidence yourself, and have offered no substantial argument to support your claims.

Provided the previous owner has religiously followed the maintenance schedule, as any responsible vehicle owner should, then the probability of a major mechanical failure will be low. You should investigate recalls for a particular model/year, and that may give you some indication of potential problems/repairs. For instance, I believe there was a recall on a fuel pump for the 2010 Golf TDI. You should also consider the cost of standard maintenance on the vehicle. A fluid change for a DSG transmission and the replacement of the timing belt can be quite costly. All of this information can be found online, and as someone else suggested, you may want to lurk VW forums for further information on your chosen model/year. I think it's uncontroversial that VW parts cost more than Toyota or Honda, and this is something you can objectively verify using part numbers. You need to balance reliability and cost of maintenance with other factors, such as quality of materials and performance. You will not find a Corolla that drives like a Golf, and only VW offers a 10 year warranty against rust perforation on their vehicles (Routan notwithstanding). VW uses quality galvanized steel, and all seams are laser welded. Neither Toyota nor Honda can compete on that front, as evidenced by the several rust buckets currently on the road. To my knowledge, the Jetta, Golf Wagon and Routan are assembled in Mexico, while the remaining vehicles are assembled in Germany. This will change based on the year/model under consideration (e.g., City Golf was assembled in Mexico).

If anyone makes a sweeping generalization like "All vehicles from Brand X are garbage", then it's safe to say they probably don't know what they're talking about. Take everything you read with a grain of salt, because everyone is an "expert" behind a keyboard. Exercise your due diligence, and with a bit of luck, I'm sure you'll find the right vehicle for your needs/budget.

[Muney]

no they're not. Your personal experiences are irrelevant, it's collective that matters. That's why the germans are at best average in reliability in all studies for past 20 years or so. German engineering are a lot of things, reliability is not and quality hasn't been for the past decade or so.

You're serious eh? Wow. So you're saying German cars are huge sellers because they're unreliable and put together half assed yet people buy them because they're dumb? Or is it because they're reliable, luxurious (usually higher end in each of their classes compared to others) and have a crap load of engineering to make them more comfortable to sit and drive?

What car do you consider the best? Have you ever owned or even sat in a German made car?

[gilboman]

You're serious eh? Wow. So you're saying German cars are huge sellers because they're unreliable and put together half assed yet people buy them because they're dumb? Or is it because they're reliable, luxurious (usually higher end in each of their classes compared to others) and have a crap load of engineering to make them more comfortable to sit and drive?

What car do you consider the best? Have you ever owned or even sat in a German made car?

I drive a german car, past 3 have been german. How do you think chrysler sold so many neons's? Quality? Lol

German cars are not luxurious, they havent been for past 10+ years, unless you call sterile luxury. People dont buy german cars because of reliability or quality. Driving dynamics, history and to some brand whoring is the biggest selling points for german cars.

[gilboman]

And this is a perfect example of flawed reasoning. First, the OP is inquiring about a specific make/model/year, and not the quality of German engineered vehicles more generally. Second, you cannot discount the poster's personal experience when you yourself are relying on anecdotal evidence to support your claims. You claim that VW is known to be generally unreliable, yet what evidence do you offer in support of this claim? You reference "all studies in the past 20 years", yet you do not identify a single study, you do not provide the VW data from those studies, you do not differentiate between different models/years, and you do not identify or discuss the different methodologies used. In short, you are relying on anecdotal evidence yourself, and have offered no substantial argument to support your claims.

Provided the previous owner has religiously followed the maintenance schedule, as any responsible vehicle owner should, then the probability of a major mechanical failure will be low. You should investigate recalls for a particular model/year, and that may give you some indication of potential problems/repairs. For instance, I believe there was a recall on a fuel pump for the 2010 Golf TDI. You should also consider the cost of standard maintenance on the vehicle. A fluid change for a DSG transmission and the replacement of the timing belt can be quite costly. All of this information can be found online, and as someone else suggested, you may want to lurk VW forums for further information on your chosen model/year. I think it's uncontroversial that VW parts cost more than Toyota or Honda, and this is something you can objectively verify using part numbers. You need to balance reliability and cost of maintenance with other factors, such as quality of materials and performance. You will not find a Corolla that drives like a Golf, and only VW offers a 10 year warranty against rust perforation on their vehicles (Routan notwithstanding). VW uses quality galvanized steel, and all seams are laser welded. Neither Toyota nor Honda can compete on that front, as evidenced by the several rust buckets currently on the road. To my knowledge, the Jetta, Golf Wagon and Routan are assembled in Mexico, while the remaining vehicles are assembled in Germany. This will change based on the year/model under consideration (e.g., City Golf was assembled in Mexico).

If anyone makes a sweeping generalization like "All vehicles from Brand X are garbage", then it's safe to say they probably don't know what they're talking about. Take everything you read with a grain of salt, because everyone is an "expert" behind a keyboard. Exercise your due diligence, and with a bit of luck, I'm sure you'll find the right vehicle for your needs/budget.

Maybe learn to read before throwing up a wall of garbage text

[Muney]

I drive a german car, past 3 have been german. How do you think chrysler sold so many neons's? Quality? Lol

German cars are not luxurious, they havent been for past 10+ years, unless you call sterile luxury. People dont buy german cars because of reliability or quality. Driving dynamics, history and to some brand whoring is the biggest selling points for german cars.

Troll confirmed. A Neon is not a German car, nor has it ever been. Even though Chrysler was owned briefly by Daimler AG, it was not a German car. It's like say that Jaguar and Range Rovers are Indian cars.

If you dont think German cars (real German Cars like MB, BMW, VW, Porsche...) are luxurious that you're a *left out so I dont get banned* Compare a German car to the same class of jab scrap or North American and you will see you're wrong.

[VICTOR KWAN]

Daimler is the company that ruined Chyrsler and the Italians are putting Chrysler back on the map!! People that drive German cars have to get off there high horses thinking there driving some elite automobiles. I know people who own BMW's,Audi's and VW's and are done with German cars.My cousin is a tech at a BMW dealership and told me bimmers are not what there cracked up to be,LOTS and LOTS of problems. Thanks but i'll take a Honda or Toyota please.

[spike1128]

Troll confirmed. A Neon is not a German car, nor has it ever been. Even though Chrysler was owned briefly by Daimler AG, it was not a German car. It's like say that Jaguar and Range Rovers are Indian cars.

If you dont think German cars (real German Cars like MB, BMW, VW, Porsche...) are luxurious that you're a *left out so I dont get banned* Compare a German car to the same class of jab scrap or North American and you will see you're wrong.

Can't be helped. He is a Toyota fan. I remember reading a thread a OP was asking about Passat / Camry. Then he went and went on about the Passat about what he was doing on this thread. The Passat won the car of the year last year or something.

I don't know why he keep claiming he owns a few VWs, then keep saying the Camry V6 is the best. Not too sure why he keep owning VWs when he thinks of them that badly.

[greybrick]

I drive a german car, past 3 have been german. How do you think chrysler sold so many neons's? Quality? Lol

German cars are not luxurious, they havent been for past 10+ years, unless you call sterile luxury. People dont buy german cars because of reliability or quality. Driving dynamics, history and to some brand whoring is the biggest selling points for german cars.

German cars may not be luxurious but for the most part they have well-appointed interiors which are finished nicely. The golf definitely has one of the best interiors in its segment. It may not be flashy, but it is put together nicely. There are very few cars in this segment that come close to the Golf when it comes to interior fit and finish. This was made painfully obvious when VW Americanized the Jetta to undercut their competitors.

[woof]

There's no doubt that VW makes fun to drive cars, but no one has ever accused them of making reliable cars.

When I scrapped my Rabbit back in 1990 I vowed I would never again buy a VW because of all the problems. After that when I'd take my Camry into the Dealership for an oil change I used to run into other disillusioned former VW owners. It was fun comparing notes. They all said the same thing, that they loved their Toyotas and that they'd never, ever again buy a VW.

Now that was 20+ years ago but I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that anything has changed with VW.

[bigred007]

My 2c - I have a 2001 VW Golf TDI, I bought it used, it now has over 330,000km on it.

The only problems with it that I have had can be attributed to the mileage. I've replaced:

A/C compressor (at about 300,000km)
1 brake flex line (burst due to rubbing on the chassis because the bracket holding it got bent somehow at ~280,000km)
1 rear brake caliper (siezed at ~270,000km)
Front and rear wheel bearings (at ~260,000km)
Springs/Dampeners (at ~230,000km)

Aside from that, no major problems. I don't think if I bought a Honda or Toyota that it would have been able to match that reliability. Engine runs great, still running the original turbo and original transmission too. I change the oil with VW approved 505.00 oil every 15,000KM along with the filter. Fuel and air filter I do every 50-60,000km. I've done the transmission fluid twice (manual transmission).

On the other hand, everyone that owns an automatic version of this car will tell you their transmission blew up between 160 and 200,000 km - because it did. The automatics up until 2003ish are crap. There are also people who tell you their engine or turbo fried at 100,000km, and they were VERY diligent about changing the oil every 5,000km. What they don't tell you is they used oil that isn't approved for use in the engine.

So my advice: If you're buying a VW, follow the manual. Don't take it to Mr. Lube and let them tell you what you need. Read the manual, change the oil with the proper oil, do the maintenance on the schedule that the engineers that designed the car set out for it. If you follow those rules, you'll have a car that treats you well and doesn't cost you much out of pocket. You may not like spending 60 dollars for 4L of oil, but if you are only changing it every 15,000km, it actually saves you money over spending $25 every 5,000km.

[mr_raider]

I drive a german car, past 3 have been german. How do you think chrysler sold so many neons's? Quality? Lol

German cars are not luxurious, they havent been for past 10+ years, unless you call sterile luxury. People dont buy german cars because of reliability or quality. Driving dynamics, history and to some brand whoring is the biggest selling points for german cars.

They get leased, returned 1 day after the warranty expires, dealer takes them back, fixes all the crap that's about to fail, CPOs the damn thing and foists upon the next unsuspecting Germanophile. If Ford can build the Fusion in Mexico to a higher standard than VW can put together a Golf in Germany, there is clearly an issue with respect to the time and effort invested by VW-AG in to the quality management process.

Once again the numbers do not lie. Year after year. Look at JD, CR and Lemon-Aid the German makes do worse than the Japanese, and even mid pick GM brands like chevy do better. Granted the difference boils down to 3 visits to the dealer in 3 years instead of 1, but the difference is there and it's quantifiable.

[mr_raider]

Compare a German car to the same class of jab scrap or North American and you will see you're wrong.

528i
http://media.caranddriver.com/images/11q4/424741/2012-bmw-5-series-interior-photo-431173-s-520x318.jpg

vs GS350

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/12q1/440970/2013-lexus-gs350-interior-photo-447579-s-520x318.jpg

328i

http://trendcarxr.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/bmw-328i-interior-wallpaper-3.jpg

vs ATS

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/39722655+w750+st0/2012-cadillac-ATS-interior.jpg

[lordnikon]

I had a VW MK5 GTI (Euro spec) for 4 years and it was very reliable. NO RATTLES. Done oil changes every 5,000 km. The only thing was the interior motion sensor was faulty (alarm) and replaced under warranty. Car was made in South Africa too so the place of manufacturer has little to do with reliability/quality imo.

[spike1128]

528i
http://media.caranddriver.com/images/11q4/424741/2012-bmw-5-series-interior-photo-431173-s-520x318.jpg

vs GS350

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/12q1/440970/2013-lexus-gs350-interior-photo-447579-s-520x318.jpg

328i

http://trendcarxr.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/bmw-328i-interior-wallpaper-3.jpg

vs ATS

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/39722655+w750+st0/2012-cadillac-ATS-interior.jpg

Judging from the photos. Mr raider you agree that the Americans make the best interior? ATS looks better than Japan/German?

[mr_raider]

Judging from the photos. Mr raider you agree that the Americans make the best interior? ATS looks better than Japan/German?

I will agree that Caddy as of recently (ATS and XTS) has done a spectacular job. I agree that Lexus has set the bar for quality interiors since the mid nineties, and the pressure they have put on the Germans has forced the Germans to address long standing issues with interior design they have had. Audi has probably started to catch up with Lexus. BMW and MB are some ways off, but the new 3 is a vast improvement over the old one. The C class is in dire need of some plastic surgery (or is that vinyl surgery?).

When you sit in a Lexus, you feel like you got what you paid for. Go sit in a base e90 3 series, and ask yourself where your 800$ lease payment is going:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GxdvsI4P_Tg/TFVaX_Q2PrI/AAAAAAAACSY/V5zjb-FORMI/s1600/2010+Bmw+328i+Dashboard.jpg

[proteinJunkie]

yuck on the wood trim.

there is places that wood belongs in, cars is not one of them

[Gunnerheadboy]

yuck on the wood trim.

there is places that wood belongs in, cars is not one of them

Have to agree. wood trim kinda reminds me of this haha:

http://nozama.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ed05fc2883301127971bee428a4-400wi

[new_vr]

Have to agree. wood trim kinda reminds me of this haha:

http://nozama.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54ed05fc2883301127971bee428a4-400wi

We had one of these, I thought it was pretty sweet

http://dayerses.com/data_images/posts/ford-model-t-depot-hack/ford-model-t-depot-hack-02.jpg

[Tommy74]

Judging from the photos. Mr raider you agree that the Americans make the best interior? ATS looks better than Japan/German?

small correction - "Americans" didn't make this interior - it's fully copied Opel's design, same goes for Buick, I thinkk it's from Insignia:


http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p278/Tomek_photos/Opel-Insignia_2009_800x600_wallpaper_57.jpg

[vero95]

small correction - "Americans" didn't make this interior - it's fully copied Opel's design, same goes for Buick, I thinkk it's from Insignia:


http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p278/Tomek_photos/Opel-Insignia_2009_800x600_wallpaper_57.jpg

many German cars were designed by Italians

Germany is often considered the birthplace of industrial design with Bauhaus School of Design. However, the Nazi regime closed down the design school. Ferdinand Porsche and his family played a significant role in German design. Mercedes Benz passenger cars were also in luxury segment and played more importance to aesthetics. After the 1980s German design evolved into a distinctive Teutonic style often to complement their high engineered cars suited to Autobahns. But the early German design clues of present day owes some part to Italian designers like Giovanni Michelotti, Ercole Spada, Bruno Sacco and Giorgetto Giugiaro. During Mid and late 20th century one of the most influential coach builder/designer in Germany was Karmann.

German designs started gaining popularity after the 1980s, notable after the formation of Audi. Volkswagen, which was dependent on Marcello Gandini and Giorgetto Giugiaro and Karmann, later formed the contemporary design language along with Audi. BMW's foray into sports sedan marked a new trend in automobile design as it called for a sporty-looking everyday sedan with Giovanni Michelotti, later enhanced by Ercole Spada right into the 1980s, and Klaus Luthe till mid-1990s. The American born designer Chris Bangle hired by BMW in late-1990s to re-define the brand and he used new single press technology for compound curves adding controversial styling elements in his designs.

The Porsche family contribution were instrumental in the evolution of Porsche cars, while the Italian designer Bruno Sacco helped create various Mercedes Models from the 1960s till the 1990s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_design

[malaco0219]

Gilboman should be driving a corrolla.. :D doesnt give up does he?

My GTI lasted 4 years. No major issues, just minor ones. Car has been a pleasure to drive and in my opinion it is one of the best cars you can drive in it's class. I miss it, but I've moved on to an Audi S4, and I expect the same.

IMO, bottom line is if you drive German or even european cars, expect there to be little problems and you pay a little more in car cost and maintenance.

[gilboman]

I will agree that Caddy as of recently (ATS and XTS) has done a spectacular job. I agree that Lexus has set the bar for quality interiors since the mid nineties, and the pressure they have put on the Germans has forced the Germans to address long standing issues with interior design they have had. Audi has probably started to catch up with Lexus. BMW and MB are some ways off, but the new 3 is a vast improvement over the old one. The C class is in dire need of some plastic surgery (or is that vinyl surgery?).

When you sit in a Lexus, you feel like you got what you paid for. Go sit in a base e90 3 series, and ask yourself where your 800$ lease payment is going:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GxdvsI4P_Tg/TFVaX_Q2PrI/AAAAAAAACSY/V5zjb-FORMI/s1600/2010+Bmw+328i+Dashboard.jpg

go sit in a M3 and you go wtf? this is interior of an 80k car? Germans are not about luxury at all.

[mr_raider]

small correction - "Americans" didn't make this interior - it's fully copied Opel's design, same goes for Buick, I thinkk it's from Insignia:


The Insignia interior is close to the Buick Regal which is it's cousin. as a matter of fact, for 2011, the North American regal was built in Russelheim along with the Insignia.

The ATS is a brand new platform and design. The Alpha platform traces it's roots to a Holden RWD platform. The engine is a new verison of the 2.0L Ecotec in the Regal, which was an original Opel design. The interior design and exterior styling are all American. Of course, the car was tuned on the 'ring.

[Insider]

When you sit in a Lexus, you feel like you got what you paid for. Go sit in a base e90 3 series, and ask yourself where your 800$ lease payment is going:

JPG

damn well agree with this. 3 series interiors are very uninspiring for a car of that 'class'..

[chickenbones]

When you sit in a Lexus, you feel like you got what you paid for. Go sit in a base e90 3 series, and ask yourself where your 800$ lease payment is going:



When you drive the Lexus you will know where that $ is going for the BMW.

Germans cars are mostly minimalistic. Audis have the best "German" interior.

[Muney]

Are people really agreeing that the Cadillac has the best interior? It might look the best in pictures, but has anyone sat in one and looked it over? Its cheap plastic and fake wood. Its garbage. Argue all you want about German cars sucking and whatever gilboman is flappin his gums about, but give me a break on Cadillacs. They're absolute garbage.

Coming from an ex Cadillac SRX owner.

[vero95]

Are people really agreeing that the Cadillac has the best interior? It might look the best in pictures, but has anyone sat in one and looked it over? Its cheap plastic and fake wood. Its garbage. Argue all you want about German cars sucking and whatever gilboman is flappin his gums about, but give me a break on Cadillacs. They're absolute garbage.

Coming from an ex Cadillac SRX owner.

are you a bmw owner now? probably not

[spike1128]

Are people really agreeing that the Cadillac has the best interior? It might look the best in pictures, but has anyone sat in one and looked it over? Its cheap plastic and fake wood. Its garbage. Argue all you want about German cars sucking and whatever gilboman is flappin his gums about, but give me a break on Cadillacs. They're absolute garbage.

Coming from an ex Cadillac SRX owner.

Now now Muney, just because you used to own a garbage SRX from OLD GM, doesn't mean NEW GM products are garbage. I am not saying I sat in one yet, but I will go to a Caddy dealer to try to out. Not sure if the plastic or fake wood is cheap, unless I touch it.

I agree with the others that Audi makes the best European interiors in the business. I know, because I tested every brand when I was buying a car a few years back. The Japan/Americans wouldn't touch what Audi has to offer. Nowadays, I am not sure. Even Jaguar makes a nice nice interior. BMW makes garbage interiors (ultimate driving machine doesn't mean the interior has to be garbage). To me Lexus make simple interiors, but too much fake metal trims. Does anyone know if the door handle is metallic on a Lexus? I know Audi has metallic handle made of real aluminum.

I am not too sure why a VW reliability thread become an interior thread. Seriously guys, stay on topic or make a new thread talking about interiors.

All I know is NEW GM is still just as cocky as OLD GM. That's for sure.

[Muney]

are you a bmw owner now? probably not

Nope, I hate BMW almost as much as Cadillacs, I would never buy a BMW.


Now now Muney, just because you used to own a garbage SRX from OLD GM, doesn't mean NEW GM products are garbage. I am not saying I sat in one yet, but I will go to a Caddy dealer to try to out. Not sure if the plastic or fake wood is cheap, unless I touch it.


Fair enough. All I know is all the people I know that own GM's seem to have quite a few problems with them. My dad has a 2 year old C6 Corvette, GM's flagship, and its in the shop every other month with dumb problems.

[M-e-X-x]

Nope, I hate BMW almost as much as Cadillacs, I would never buy a BWM.

No one buys a BMW, they lease them :lol:

[spike1128]

Nope, I hate BMW almost as much as Cadillacs, I would never buy a BWM.



Fair enough. All I know is all the people I know that own GM's seem to have quite a few problems with them. My dad has a 2 year old C6 Corvette, GM's flagship, and its in the shop every other month with dumb problems.

I heard there is a lot of problems with Corvette in general. I like the look though, but I won't consider owning one. I think the Camaro is more well built than the Corvette. I don't own one, but I think Canadian built cars are usually good cars. The new breed of GM cars are usually Korean / European, not enough time to know if they are reliable or not.

I thought on reliability, Caddys made the most headway out of all the GM brands.

[delavoie]

yes VW reliability has really gone down hill. They rate lower then Kia on JD Edwards 2011 Dependability Study..:lol:

[liorsyncro]

Auto or Manual?

I've owned 2 Honda's that were the biggest POS and owned 2 Vw's that have been nothing short of amazing, so knocking German engineering as a whole is kind of stupid when they're known for reliability and quality.

The problem with the Germans is that they over-engineer their cars and that's why German cars are notorious in terms of long-term durability. German engineering isn't always so brilliant. Shoddy suspension parts on A4s, timing chain tensioners that were prone to fail very early (BMW), VW engines that drink oil like it's water (1.8 and 2.0), heck about two years ago I read an article in Canadian Business with Mercedes Benz Canada's CEO and even he acknowledged that for the past decade German cars were basically a p.o.s., from VW's "city" models that were held together with crazyglue to Mercedes interiors that were falling apart, an image that Mercedes is now working on repairing. Brand new off the lot for the first couple of years German cars can be great. But keep them for longer than that and it's like playing Russian roulette. German parts are expensive and there's a brutal tendency for major repairs to happen sooner than other brands. The remarkable thing is I told this to her three years ago when she started telling me about how she had to spend money fixing some electrical problems. It was an automatic btw.

[Gunnerheadboy]

If all these car don't particularly good reliability, then why does everyone seem to be so interested in BMWs, VWs, Audis, etc.?

[mingyang]

we have a bimmer, i have to agree audi interior > bmw, but bimmer u get a sweeter ride.

[carniver]

If all these car don't particularly good reliability, then why does everyone seem to be so interested in BMWs, VWs, Audis, etc.?
Reliability isn't something you can brag about to your friends. Baller image is.

[Gunnerheadboy]

Reliability isn't something you can brag about to your friends. Baller image is.

But you can be a baller in a Lexus for example, while still having a reliable car according to JD.

[mr_raider]

But you can be a baller in a Lexus for example, while still having a reliable car according to JD.

Lexus does not offer the same ability to sneer at others.