Anyone familiar with arranged marriages?

[epik89]

I have quite a bit of "brown" friends and they all tell me they either have to find a husband/wife before a certain age or there family will arrange marriage for them.

Some of them don't mind the thought of arranged marriage but some are terrified and are actually eager to find a partner.

What is the point of the arranged marriage? is it more as a rush to get married thing? or a traditional thing?

[sandikosh]

The point of an arranged marriage is to get the kids out of the house! Just before I left high school there was this girl in my class that met some people in her house. After they left, she was told that the guy she just met is going to be her husband. She cried all day. Two months after school she married him. The guy was in heaven because she was gorgeous!

[transitguy1]

I think it's mostly cultural.....in many countries specially in Asia the parents normally find someone "suitable" for their children to marry when they are in the age to be married......mostly early to mid twenties. The girls are usually just finishing up the education while the boys just starting to work, etc......so parents think to get them married and be "over with their responsibilities" of raising the kids. Kids were expected to be "subservient" and to go along, etc. Depending on the countries/culture/religions, sometimes the kids had no say even if they did not like the chosen mate.

These days more and more kids are becoming independent and choosing their own mates, social webs have helped in that to some extent. A lot of parents who immigrated here with their kids being adult now still live in the old frame of mind, expecting and accepting arranged marriages and all.......introverts have difficulty finding someone their family will also approve of, so I guess they leave it to family members to choose.

Some parents strongly feel that its their right to choose the right person for their children, lol. This is now becoming an issue as many kids who grow up in the western countries refuse to accept an arranged marriage, specially in cases where the other chosen person lives in the country of origin.....so has to be sponsored, etc.

Time pressure (age) is also a factor, as many feel that if they pass a certain age for girls/guys will not be able to find an ideal match later, and will have to compromise.

Marriage is a compromise anyways, you cannot find everything in one person. :twisted:

[McClane]

I think there are different flavours within the arrangement. I have a friend whose mother is very active in the market, but she just sets dates up and if they don't click when meeting they move over.

[gdog799]

most indian families i know help find eligible husbands/wifes for their kids. They invite their family over for a evening to get to meet them, but in the end, the final decision belongs to the kids. If they find that they click and they want to marry each other, the decision is theirs.

However, of course, there are some hardcore parents who force their kids to marry. Thankfully none of my relatives are like that.

[Drew87]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't part of the reason arranged marriages exists besides being designed to " avoid bringing shame to the family " also to get married early enough to have children?

Don't some cultures believe that the older you get you're "quality" diminishes?

[ishfish]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't part of the reason arranged marriages exists besides being designed to " avoid bringing shame to the family " also to get married early enough to have children?

Don't some cultures believe that the older you get you're "quality" diminishes?

Single people are suspicious.
What do they do with all their freedom - nothing good!

One can say this from a microscopic family perspective and from a larger govt perspective. Single people are just plain bad news.

I am a little jealous, yes.

[ashs]

I met my wife on a matrimonial website, we were both marriage minded and had created accounts on there. Well we met a lot and talked and realized it would be a good match so we brought the folks in. Parents liked each other so the deal was pretty much sealed. That was 8 years ago and minus 2 kids :)

[CRAZYBUBBA]

TBH, arranged marriages sounds like a pretty good deal.

[sedated_xtc]

Now, mind you, I'm not personally of south asian decent, but one of my friends are and she's painted a pretty good idea of it to me. Imo, it's really not that different from the marriage system of the old-school Chinese (i.e. we're talking Qing dynasty and earlier here). So basically a girl is of age to get married and since culturally, dating is prohibited, it's the family's job to find someone adequate. So family and friends would run through their phonebooks to see who has an eligible bachelor in it and then the eligible bachelor would book an appointment with the girl's family to meet. If the guy is decent, the family approves, then the girl can put in her 2 cents. If she doesn't like him, it's back to the drawing board and the process goes on again until someone she's ok with comes along. If she says ok, then they get engaged and so forth.

I think it's more of a keeping to tradition thing although that doesn't really apply anymore. My South Asian friends that date end up going through that same process, just that their bf's somehow end up as that eligible bachelor that a friend of a friend would recommend and stuff. It's not like how they show on tv where the girl meets the guy on the wedding night.

[Abel4Life]

Now, mind you, I'm not personally of south asian decent, but one of my friends are and she's painted a pretty good idea of it to me. Imo, it's really not that different from the marriage system of the old-school Chinese (i.e. we're talking Qing dynasty and earlier here). So basically a girl is of age to get married and since culturally, dating is prohibited, it's the family's job to find someone adequate. So family and friends would run through their phonebooks to see who has an eligible bachelor in it and then the eligible bachelor would book an appointment with the girl's family to meet. If the guy is decent, the family approves, then the girl can put in her 2 cents. If she doesn't like him, it's back to the drawing board and the process goes on again until someone she's ok with comes along. If she says ok, then they get engaged and so forth.

I think it's more of a keeping to tradition thing although that doesn't really apply anymore. My South Asian friends that date end up going through that same process, just that their bf's somehow end up as that eligible bachelor that a friend of a friend would recommend and stuff. It's not like how they show on tv where the girl meets the guy on the wedding night.

Its harder these days to find an arranged wife due to gender selection abortions in these cultures (especially India). The male to female ratio is really messed up over there.

[dealseeker2011]

For other cultures this is a traditional thing. For some people they are looking to go to another country and become a citizen there.

[konfusion666]

I met my wife on a matrimonial website, we were both marriage minded and had created accounts on there. Well we met a lot and talked and realized it would be a good match so we brought the folks in. Parents liked each other so the deal was pretty much sealed. That was 8 years ago and minus 2 kids :)

did you actually "date" her for a significant length of time, or did you just see her a few times over the course of 2-3 weeks and then get the families involved?

(just curious to see how your experience of arranged marriage compares to the regular dating cycle...)

[Chigu]

I think there are different flavours within the arrangement. I have a friend whose mother is very active in the market, but she just sets dates up and if they don't click when meeting they move over.

This is what arranged marriage has evolved to, especially in the western countries and even big cities in India. The parents usually arrange the meetups they go out for a few dates at least and see if both of them want to continue. If not, they move on.

[Menthol]

Its harder these days to find an arranged wife due to gender selection abortions in these cultures (especially India). The male to female ratio is really messed up over there.

They should stop that or they will end up looking for a male to marry their son. Not that there is anything wrong with that;), I must ;)follow the rules.

[epik89]

Its interesting to see that different cultures also have there own type of "arranged marriages"

It would be quite interesting to see more western cultures taking part in this type of situation.

For myself i don't see nothing wrong with it seeing as there is some good stories in the marriages.


I also read on some add or poster somewhere downtown where it said something like forced marriage is a crime or something.

Would that be somewhat like arranging a marriage?

[ishfish]

Arranged marriages are not always forced. Many involve family senior members (parents/grandparents...) getting together with the senior members of another family and for whatever reason deciding to introduce the single people to each other. The single people then decide if they want to marry.

Forced means that there is no opt out option for one or both of the single people.

[Manatus]

I met my wife on a matrimonial website, we were both marriage minded and had created accounts on there. Well we met a lot and talked and realized it would be a good match so we brought the folks in. Parents liked each other so the deal was pretty much sealed. That was 8 years ago and minus 2 kids :)

If I may ask, what would you have done if you met and talked and decided that you wanted to do it, but the parents didn't like each other, or her parents didn't like you (or yours didn't like her) - would you still have done it?

[thestar99]

Arranged marriages were practiced in the west not too long ago. Good part is parents will pick an attractive girl with good qualities. Downside is the girl might not be as good as the parents build it up. Just like everything you have to take the good with bad.

It is important you know the girl or guy well enough before you tie the knot. Lot of people change once they get married just like in love marriage.

I am still in favour of arranged marriage if that opportunity present itself. It is not only Indian culture I know tons of Asian who went back to their country to marry a girl from good family. Heck my buddy from Turkey just married a turkish girl from Turkey last October.

I never understood the stigma of only unattractive individuals or people with no games go back to get married. Lot of good looking successful people did the arranged marriage and they are happy

[thestar99]

Technically if your friend sets you up with one of her friends its arranged as well. Only difference is parents do it. If you do not click move on if you do take the next step

[nielboy]

Friends of mine have told me that arranged marriages (especially in East India) are a result of the caste system where people are divided into classes based on your family's background & status in society.

People in the lower castes must marry within their castes and people in the higher castes the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India

[indca]

Friends of mine have told me that arranged marriages (especially in East India) are a result of the caste system where people are divided into classes based on your family's background & status in society.

People in the lower castes must marry within their castes and people in the higher castes the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India



Ya, This is how it went down for me;
in India there is caste system; as I am of Gandhi family, I had to find a girl of same family name;

A close Relative from Brampton gave us a hint of a young girl they know in India, who is educated and well cultured, so we pursued this proposal; initially we received the pictures, and I liked the girl so we sent Bio data to each other through email, our family liked what we saw; we talked on phone few times, while I also received at least 15 other proposals; but I took my personal interest in this proposal, as from beginning I decided that I was not gonna go for money in form of dowry, and decided to marry someone who was well educated and she can learn to grow with me over time.

We went to see the girl in October 2009, and I decided along with her to get engaged, and we were married one month later in November 2009;

So, the whole process started in April 2009, and I was married on November 26, 2009;

I was planning all this for a long long time, but getting married turned out to be easier and less cumbersome than initially I though seeing how many of my Canadian born cousins are struggling to get married made it easier for me to go to India.

She is attending the college now, and we are joining many dance lessons, and playing many sports and going out together; In a way, this is arranged but we are happy together; and love each other very much; and doing things that Canadian do without the whole dating scenario makes it worth it that much more, as every activity we do is permanent, and not something someone does it temporarily for dating.

[sandikosh]

^^^I bet she is one hot looking girl. No way am I getting engaged to someone I barely know unless she looks flaming HOT!

[Pratzy]

I have question that's oriented towards males of South Asian descent, especially the ones who have had (or are considering) an arranged marriage.

I'm going to take the liberty of saying that an arranged marriage, especially in South Asia is based on two major factors; in this order of importance: Economic status, and caste/community/religion. And then comes the rest of the things such as : mutual attraction b/w the two potential partners, how the parents/family feel.
I'm going to say these are the key things, although it is likely some of these factors will vary in importance depending on the person and family.
I think that most people of South Asian descent can agree to that ^, yes ? Sure you might say that the cast/comm./religion factor might be the priority, but come on, $$$ trumps all. You can choose to ignore this cynical view of mine, since I don't want to deviate from my main point.

MY QUESTION:
So, you chose to take the arranged marriage route, and avoid the whole western dating scenario. I'm assuming that you're happy with your marital life, love your wife, etc. etc.

Somewhere deep deep inside there, don't you feel like (or know) you are a loser ? You might try everything to justify the system through which you got married is better...
But, ultimately 'Bride XYZ' chose you because of 1) Economic status 2) You live in Canada/US/anyotherwesterncountry which is seen as a prestigious thing 3) You're better than the lot she was stuck with at home.

Not because she really liked you from the start.

Let's say the same 'Bride XYZ' was in your shoes, let's say she was an emancipated female (without parents/relatives encouraging her to get married). Would she really opt to get married the same way you did ?
I would think she would probably date and marry someone based on things other than economic worth, ALTHOUGH that is still would probably be an important factor. But things like personality/character would also be just as important, after all she wouldn't marry some *********, just because he has deep pockets. In an arranged marriage these things aren't obvious, after all it takes quite a while to get to know a person very well and intimately, before you can have a good idea of their character and personality. These things cannot be afforded in the arranged marriage system due to its expedited nature, and the whole personality/character factor depends mostly the people who know the 'Bride XYZ' or 'Groom XYZ', and suggest that they are suitable for each other.

But, 'Groom XYZ', you chose the easy route and got hitched to a bride who evaluated you first on economic status, and then personal attraction etc, instead of your personality and character. I'm not saying this doesn't happen in the western dating scene, I'm sure that many marriages are based on pretty much the same factors. But, still Mr.South Asian male, you never proved your game/mettle in the dating scene.

Do you ever wonder if 'Bride XYZ' would still have chosen you if the financial/prestige/caste,community,religious/ factors didn't exist and both of you were on EQUAL footing; or better yet she was a Canadian/American born female of south asian descent ?

[Pratzy]

Now, I'm not a troll, racist, xenophobe or bigot.

In fact I'm of south Asian descent myself. I have not yet received a satisfactory answer to the question up there. Just wondering what you guys would say to that.

[AtticusFinch]

my ex and i broke up cause she had an arranged marriage she couldn't get out of. well i suppose she could have if she REALLY wanted to, but shed probably be disowned. therefore, im not a fan of arranged marriages for obvious reasons lol. was a crummy situation since we dated awhile, thought i could convince her to scrap the idea. no go. i guess it was a tough decision on her part choosing between family and me.

as for the above poster, i dont think the guys really think about it? maybe if they're very well integrated into western society and have alot of western influences (close friends/etc) then maybe the thought could come up? but otherwise, i think its the norm enough in their culture that it wouldn't be second guessed. i see what you're saying though. its a very status oriented culture (obviously, there can be different subsets of a culture, so not painting anyone with a broad brush here).

oh figured i should add that the girl i dated was a devout Christian. like church every sunday type. and she lived in Houston for half her life. so not the typical arranged marriage type person youd expect. old habits die hard i guess

[indca]

I have question that's oriented towards males of South Asian descent, especially the ones who have had (or are considering) an arranged marriage.

I'm going to take the liberty of saying that an arranged marriage, especially in South Asia is based on two major factors; in this order of importance: Economic status, and caste/community/religion. And then comes the rest of the things such as : mutual attraction b/w the two potential partners, how the parents/family feel.
I'm going to say these are the key things, although it is likely some of these factors will vary in importance depending on the person and family.
I think that most people of South Asian descent can agree to that ^, yes ? Sure you might say that the cast/comm./religion factor might be the priority, but come on, $$$ trumps all. You can choose to ignore this cynical view of mine, since I don't want to deviate from my main point.

MY QUESTION:
So, you chose to take the arranged marriage route, and avoid the whole western dating scenario. I'm assuming that you're happy with your marital life, love your wife, etc. etc.

Somewhere deep deep inside there, don't you feel like (or know) you are a loser ? You might try everything to justify the system through which you got married is better...
But, ultimately 'Bride XYZ' chose you because of 1) Economic status 2) You live in Canada/US/anyotherwesterncountry which is seen as a prestigious thing 3) You're better than the lot she was stuck with at home.

Not because she really liked you from the start.

Let's say the same 'Bride XYZ' was in your shoes, let's say she was an emancipated female (without parents/relatives encouraging her to get married). Would she really opt to get married the same way you did ?
I would think she would probably date and marry someone based on things other than economic worth, ALTHOUGH that is still would probably be an important factor. But things like personality/character would also be just as important, after all she wouldn't marry some *********, just because he has deep pockets. In an arranged marriage these things aren't obvious, after all it takes quite a while to get to know a person very well and intimately, before you can have a good idea of their character and personality. These things cannot be afforded in the arranged marriage system due to its expedited nature, and the whole personality/character factor depends mostly the people who know the 'Bride XYZ' or 'Groom XYZ', and suggest that they are suitable for each other.

But, 'Groom XYZ', you chose the easy route and got hitched to a bride who evaluated you first on economic status, and then personal attraction etc, instead of your personality and character. I'm not saying this doesn't happen in the western dating scene, I'm sure that many marriages are based on pretty much the same factors. But, still Mr.South Asian male, you never proved your game/mettle in the dating scene.

Do you ever wonder if 'Bride XYZ' would still have chosen you if the financial/prestige/caste,community,religious/ factors didn't exist and both of you were on EQUAL footing; or better yet she was a Canadian/American born female of south asian descent ?




Ok to start a reply;

let me give you a bit of my background; I was very introverted through College, then I wanted change and be normal; so there and then I came across PUA Lair= Pickup Artist community, their job is to pickup women any HOT women 9/10, you can learn and get access to a lot if you can access this secret community in Montreal; To get a women you don't need a Money, looks nor do u need that top Job, you can get the hottest women without giving much but you do need to access PUA community and their knowledge to do that; and I will not discus this whole dynamic here, you can read up on google and learn by your self about this things.

I learn the whole social dynamic and become very popular in my university; I was attending 5 dance lesson at one point just to give you an idea; I was hitting the mall, the big shows with my wing man and my style. I was really getting into Western Culture and then it hit me really bad about what I was doing and where I was going with this. All those Extravagant parties, clubs, groups, dancing, big events did not interest me; simple things became more important then becoming alpha of the community.

Whatever I did was temporary and very satisfying experience; still, I wanted more and something valuable to hold on to so I decided to go to India;

Even in India, there is a shortage for girls, so they get to choose their husbands these days; as there were lots of abortion due to parents wanting boys; So back to my wife, she had received another proposal from Canada as well as London, and as you said she was not from wealthy family so her happiness was basically where her husband was, and I knew and accepted this facts; still, she says she liked my personality when she saw my picture and talk to me on phone, and that is why she chose me over others.

I knew about her family background and thats why I chose her as I knew she could cope with hardship she'd have to face with me, and she'd make me stronger when times get harder; so you see her missing wealth is my wealth as there is not much arrogance in her.

I could be alpha and become very popular with girls, but I am cutting lose all my cannons and wanting something meaningful in life, and that is my choice.

[AtticusFinch]

I could be alpha and become very popular with girls, but I am cutting lose all my cannons and wanting something meaningful in life, and that is my choice.

i think this is more to do with gaining maturity and wanting stability rather than the dynamics of an arranged marriage. from what i gathered from the other poster, he was asking whether or not guys felt that they took the easy way out so to say with an arranged marriage rather than doing more legwork and finding someone "the old fashioned way".

however, alot of arranged marriages are really nothing more than just a selective pool of eligible singles where both parties can have their pick. really no different than say an online dating site or other selective dating communities. its the marriages that aren't fair and balanced to both parties in their decision that i have issue with (eg the guy gets his pick and the girl has to more or less go along with it or vice versa). ive learned that not all arranged marriages necessarily mean the same thing. even within the same culture/religion.

[indca]

^^^I bet she is one hot looking girl. No way am I getting engaged to someone I barely know unless she looks flaming HOT!

Something wrong here as after marriage other things should become more important and IF her being "HOT" is the reason for marriage then it won't last long.

[ashs]

it was a combination of a couple meetings, webcam and phoning for a couple months.



did you actually "date" her for a significant length of time, or did you just see her a few times over the course of 2-3 weeks and then get the families involved?

(just curious to see how your experience of arranged marriage compares to the regular dating cycle...)

[mockingjay404]

i think this is more to do with gaining maturity and wanting stability rather than the dynamics of an arranged marriage. from what i gathered from the other poster, he was asking whether or not guys felt that they took the easy way out so to say with an arranged marriage rather than doing more legwork and finding someone "the old fashioned way".

however, alot of arranged marriages are really nothing more than just a selective pool of eligible singles where both parties can have their pick. really no different than say an online dating site or other selective dating communities. its the marriages that aren't fair and balanced to both parties in their decision that i have issue with (eg the guy gets his pick and the girl has to more or less go along with it or vice versa). ive learned that not all arranged marriages necessarily mean the same thing. even within the same culture/religion.

personally i thought Pratzy was a bit off-base in his comment...

as a visible minority guy who's tried a number of online dating sites in T.O. (including the big ones; POF and eharmny) i've found that the only women ever interested in my profiles were the ones belonging to my community (ethnic grp)! i'd always get closed/no-response (either in early stage or later stage) by women of other ethnic groups, including white ppl. on the other hand i did manage to go out on quite a few dates with women of my ethnicity who i met on POF and eharm.

in which case there is no difference (for me) between the "arranged marriage" that ashs did (since he just used a website dedicated to indian people) and me who used a mainstream site, but only ended up on dates with ppl of the same ethnicity!

then again,, perhaps Pratzy was more referring to "mail order bride" rather than how the so-called "arranged marriages" are currently practiced in north america among the immigrant communities.

[spike1128]

personally i thought Pratzy was a bit off-base in his comment...

as a visible minority guy who's tried a number of online dating sites in T.O. (including the big ones; POF and eharmny) i've found that the only women ever interested in my profiles were the ones belonging to my community (ethnic grp)! i'd always get closed/no-response (either in early stage or later stage) by women of other ethnic groups, including white ppl. on the other hand i did manage to go out on quite a few dates with women of my ethnicity who i met on POF and eharm.

in which case there is no difference (for me) between the "arranged marriage" that ashs did (since he just used a website dedicated to indian people) and me who used a mainstream site, but only ended up on dates with ppl of the same ethnicity!

then again,, perhaps Pratzy was more referring to "mail order bride" rather than how the so-called "arranged marriages" are currently practiced in north america among the immigrant communities.

I think if you were talking about online dating. Maybe the other races don't find/think a certain minority group is attractive. So hence a no go on online dating.

Arrange marriage is not something you can get out of once the family decide you need to marry this certain individual. Nothing to do with online dating. Not comparable.

To AtticusFinch. At least I would think you gotten some before she married off to some other guy. :p

[mockingjay404]

I think if you were talking about online dating. Maybe the other races don't find/think a certain minority group is attractive. So hence a no go on online dating.

Arrange marriage is not something you can get out of once the family decide you need to marry this certain individual. Nothing to do with online dating. Not comparable.



read ash's post and AtticusFinch's most recent post. it has already been established that in Canada and the USA, that "arranged marriage" is simply codeword for "online dating within your own ethnic group, for visible minority people".

[ashs]

If I may ask, what would you have done if you met and talked and decided that you wanted to do it, but the parents didn't like each other, or her parents didn't like you (or yours didn't like her) - would you still have done it?

I would have wanted my parents approval, but if I really like her and they didn't I know they would have supported my decision. I think there main concern is long term and me not being blinded by lust. That said I would;t be where I am today with out them. While me and my wife are working guess who is taking care of my kids (my parents), I love em and look forward to helping my kids out when they get older.

[ashs]

MY QUESTION:
So, you chose to take the arranged marriage route, and avoid the whole western dating scenario. I'm assuming that you're happy with your marital life, love your wife, etc. etc.

Somewhere deep deep inside there, don't you feel like (or know) you are a loser ? You might try everything to justify the system through which you got married is better...
But, ultimately 'Bride XYZ' chose you because of 1) Economic status 2) You live in Canada/US/anyotherwesterncountry which is seen as a prestigious thing 3) You're better than the lot she was stuck with at home.

Not because she really liked you from the start.




to each is own, love vs arrange who cares, as time moves on new canadians will do as others do. you question people judging based on economic and cultural backgrounds but what exactly is "liking" someone? a lot of that is just social normals and lacks approaching marriage with a rational mindset towards the future.

[Nettles]

Hmmm I'm 100% sure none of my brown friends had or plan to have an arranged marriage so maybe it's a regional or cultural thing or religion. Although their parents are probably more heavily involved than with us.

[roadrunner17]

Ours was an arranged marriage. Here is how it all happened :

- After settling down into my new job, I decided I am ready to settle down in my life too. So I started looking for potential match. I not only spoke about it with my parents (they were very glad to find out) but also to my friends and relatives that I am looking.

- One of our family friends recommended a match here in Toronto.

- I started talking to the girl and her family. From day one we both 'clicked'

- After talking to each other for close to two months and numerous dates we decided we both are ready.

- Its been more than 4 years now since we got married and not to long back we were blessed with our second child.

I am not sure if this would be classified as orthodox arranged marriage but this is how it works in Sikh/Punjabi culture here in Canada.

[Franchise10]

Whats the difference between arranged marriages and online dating websites if you really think about it. Arranged marriage parents/elders do all the preliminary screening whereas dating websites surveys do. IMO they are very similar.

[Pratzy]

then again,, perhaps Pratzy was more referring to "mail order bride" rather than how the so-called "arranged marriages" are currently practiced in north america among the immigrant communities.

No, I wasn't referring to mail order brides. I was talking about this :


Ours was an arranged marriage. Here is how it all happened :

- After settling down into my new job, I decided I am ready to settle down in my life too. So I started looking for potential match. I not only spoke about it with my parents (they were very glad to find out) but also to my friends and relatives that I am looking.

- One of our family friends recommended a match here in Toronto.

- I started talking to the girl and her family. From day one we both 'clicked'

- After talking to each other for close to two months and numerous dates we decided we both are ready. .
Or what indica described as his arranged marriage system.




rather than how the so-called "arranged marriages" are currently practiced in north america among the immigrant communities.

Do enlighten me on this new method of arranged marriages in North America, and explain how it differs from the system that indica and roadrunner17 have described.

[Pratzy]

read ash's post and AtticusFinch's most recent post. it has already been established that in Canada and the USA, that "arranged marriage" is simply codeword for "online dating within your own ethnic group, for visible minority people".

No, I have to disagree here. I don't think anyone was using 'arranged marriage' as an euphemism for 'online communal/ethnic dating'.

Even if people say that, and yes there might be MANY similarities between 'arranged marriages' and 'online ethnic dating',
but let's keep the terms separate; By arranged marriage I mean what indica or roadrunner17 went through.

So again, lets keep those two terms separate.

[Pratzy]

Hmmm I'm 100% sure none of my brown friends had or plan to have an arranged marriage so maybe it's a regional or cultural thing or religion. Although their parents are probably more heavily involved than with us.


to each is own, love vs arrange who cares, as time moves on new canadians will do as others do.

I have to agree with the person who said that to some people, they don't even question the whole arranged marriage thing, and just accept it as the way it is; and other people might not even consider it, I guess Nettles' brown friends fit into this niche.

I guess the key factor to this is how well the person and his( or her) family is integrated into Western society.

[Nettles]

Ours was an arranged marriage. Here is how it all happened :

- After settling down into my new job, I decided I am ready to settle down in my life too. So I started looking for potential match. I not only spoke about it with my parents (they were very glad to find out) but also to my friends and relatives that I am looking.

- One of our family friends recommended a match here in Toronto.

- I started talking to the girl and her family. From day one we both 'clicked'

- After talking to each other for close to two months and numerous dates we decided we both are ready.

- Its been more than 4 years now since we got married and not to long back we were blessed with our second child.

This to me doesn't seem like an arranged marriage so it's just confusing now. I think our concept of an arranged marriage is that of The Simpsons and Apu but this is quite different. This is basically the same as being set up with someone and then going out on a date and then marrying which to me seems fairly normal. The brown friends I referred to earlier saying that they didn't or don't plan to have an arranged marriage probably follow this.

I would personally hate to be set up by someone cos I like doing it on my own but I don't see it as something that's arranged, it's an arranged date if anything. I'm assuming girls can be shy too from certain cultures and this is probably better at helping them out. The one thing I have to say though is that it makes more sense to date for the purpose of possibly marrying or not rather than just dating to have a bf/gf without the intention of getting married or ever living together. There isn't really anything wrong with that either I guess, it's their choice if they wanna date without ever marrying but the other method seems to have more of a purpose behind it.

[mockingjay404]

Do enlighten me on this new method of arranged marriages in North America, and explain how it differs from the system that indica and roadrunner17 have described.

i already explained it and i pointed to ash's experience.

it looks like you don't agree with my definition of the word.

plus, there is a bit of a fine line between what constitutes Western-style "being set up with someone" or "finding someone through a dating site" and the American/Canadian form of "arranged marriage".
you must surely accept that the Canadian/American practise is quite different than what is still going on in small towns and communities in India, Bangladesh and Pakistan (hey, u said you were south asian) <--- i consider that to be arranged marriage

btw what do you consider websites like shaadi DOT com ?

my main contention is that you think ppl who do arranged marriages are sorta losers. i find nothing loser-ish about what indica and roadrunner did. it's not like they were pre-ordained to be set up someone. surely, there were other people in the running, and somehow, they were the ones who "won" that particular girl/boy. just like in dating.

[zonetbh]

I have quite a bit of "brown" friends and they all tell me they either have to find a husband/wife before a certain age or there family will arrange marriage for them.

Some of them don't mind the thought of arranged marriage but some are terrified and are actually eager to find a partner.

What is the point of the arranged marriage? is it more as a rush to get married thing? or a traditional thing?

What's to be scared of if they live in Canada? If they're over 18, their family can arrange whatever they want...doesn't mean jack ****. Welcome to the free world.

[Abel4Life]

Ya, This is how it went down for me;
in India there is caste system; as I am of Gandhi family, I had to find a girl of same family name;



I have many Indian colleagues and the opinion of the caste system varies. The ones that are more modern and 'Westernized' believe the Caste system is very old thinking and that those days are over and only very conservative Indian families follow that.

Others go by the 'my parents are the decision makers of my life' and are strong followers of the only marrying within the same caste ruling. If they were to marry outside the caste your parents would probably outcast you. Many also frown on 'love' marriages.

I don't fault it as a cultural difference but I do believe 'old timer thinking' in those areas of India should be more educated. Otherwise you will have these same people continue to abort girls in favour of a son etc.

[UrbanPoet]

Now, mind you, I'm not personally of south asian decent, but one of my friends are and she's painted a pretty good idea of it to me. Imo, it's really not that different from the marriage system of the old-school Chinese (i.e. we're talking Qing dynasty and earlier here). So basically a girl is of age to get married and since culturally, dating is prohibited, it's the family's job to find someone adequate. So family and friends would run through their phonebooks to see who has an eligible bachelor in it and then the eligible bachelor would book an appointment with the girl's family to meet. If the guy is decent, the family approves, then the girl can put in her 2 cents. If she doesn't like him, it's back to the drawing board and the process goes on again until someone she's ok with comes along. If she says ok, then they get engaged and so forth.

I think it's more of a keeping to tradition thing although that doesn't really apply anymore. My South Asian friends that date end up going through that same process, just that their bf's somehow end up as that eligible bachelor that a friend of a friend would recommend and stuff. It's not like how they show on tv where the girl meets the guy on the wedding night.

And then... Someone hires a bearded man to KILL HIM!!!!

They run away from so called assassin... In between all this madness they have time to sing, dance, and flirt with each other. :)

[indca]

I have many Indian colleagues and the opinion of the caste system varies. The ones that are more modern and 'Westernized' believe the Caste system is very old thinking and that those days are over and only very conservative Indian families follow that.

Others go by the 'my parents are the decision makers of my life' and are strong followers of the only marrying within the same caste ruling. If they were to marry outside the caste your parents would probably outcast you. Many also frown on 'love' marriages.

I don't fault it as a cultural difference but I do believe 'old timer thinking' in those areas of India should be more educated. Otherwise you will have these same people continue to abort girls in favour of a son etc.


and let me give you a social dynamic of how indian culture and caste system works;


In India I might have friends and Neighbours; but the priority is given when someone with close relation with same Gandhi surname gets married or has a special event setup; I as husband would attend many events and functions along with my wife's close family members who are all Gandhi; and similarly my Wife spends most of her time occupied in events, celebration, marriages on my side of family; so, we are less involved with other caste of people.

In india, all caste have their duty and commitments that they must fulfill; Sort of like how we have friends here in Canada and how we support them by hanging out with them and joining them in their special moments.

In India, all connection and ties are made from early age as I am connected to both my mom and dads family, I lived with my dads family but visited my moms family every vacation; so I built very strong connections to my extended family; and I evolved through that to make my own family, and make connection with my wife's family.

In Canada, we must embrace diversity in culture and values as there is no place for narrow idea of what should our friends be like, and how we should conduct and get married.

[Hello-]

What's to be scared of if they live in Canada? If they're over 18, their family can arrange whatever they want...doesn't mean jack ****. Welcome to the free world.

+1. The threat of being disowned doesn't mean anything to me. Maybe means more to women.

This topic is very intriguing to me and I'm personally torn between arranged marriages and free will. I know for a fact that arranged marriages can be happy and fulfilling because of relatives who had arranged marriages. It's just hard to accept loss of control over such an important aspect in a person's life.

[Corleone187]

arrange marriages are probably better because you have to learn to love the person and "deal with it" so in essence it can only get better over time...well in theory I guess

[zonetbh]

+1. The threat of being disowned doesn't mean anything to me. Maybe means more to women.

This topic is very intriguing to me and I'm personally torn between arranged marriages and free will. I know for a fact that arranged marriages can be happy and fulfilling because of relatives who had arranged marriages. It's just hard to accept loss of control over such an important aspect in a person's life.

I would have no problem being the martyr if I was in that position and ending a line of family tyranny, so that my kids could experience proper freedoms. Like the freedom to love and life with whoever they choose.

[uber_shnitz]

It really depends on the family. Like some people said, lots of "Westernized" families now don't really force the marriage, moreso they set up their kids with other kids they think will be suitable (from suitable families) so in that sense, it's really more like your friends hooking you up with someone, just that your family has a more vested interest in it.

[cheapgeek]

A girl from work super super hot is from India and she got here through an arranged marriage. Currently she makes more then her husband and he is not even in her league lucky sob

[Abel4Life]

A girl from work super super hot is from India and she got here through an arranged marriage. Currently she makes more then her husband and he is not even in her league lucky sob

I also know of an arranged marriage where a former co-worker slob lucked out with a hot arranged marriage. Lucky SOB indeed.

[kingrukus]

I plan to import a hot wife with good skills from a 3rd world country soon. If that works out well, I will import many more.

[Spor 13]

I remember back when I was 16 and working at Canada's wonderland, a coworker who was 16 yrs old said (who was quite incompetent at her job) she had to quit in order to go back to Pakistan because she got married the night before. When I asked, she said she got arranged to be married and wed over the phone. She had never seen or met her husband other than a wallet photo. That was the first time I heard about an arranged marriage first hand and it just shocked me and still does that someone could get arranged like that. To be honest, I felt sorry for her.

[Pratzy]

I remember back when I was 16 and working at Canada's wonderland, a coworker who was 16 yrs old said (who was quite incompetent at her job) she had to quit in order to go back to Pakistan because she got married the night before. When I asked, she said she got arranged to be married and wed over the phone. She had never seen or met her husband other than a wallet photo. That was the first time I heard about an arranged marriage first hand and it just shocked me and still does that someone could get arranged like that. To be honest, I felt sorry for her.


I would say that is virtually child marriage. Horrible practice. I would assume the girl had no power to resist it; probably was forced on her by her family.

[Pratzy]

i already explained it and i pointed to ash's experience.

it looks like you don't agree with my definition of the word.

plus, there is a bit of a fine line between what constitutes Western-style "being set up with someone" or "finding someone through a dating site" and the American/Canadian form of "arranged marriage".
you must surely accept that the Canadian/American practise is quite different than what is still going on in small towns and communities in India, Bangladesh and Pakistan (hey, u said you were south asian) <--- i consider that to be arranged marriage
.

Yes, there is a difference b/w the arranged marriages that take place here and South Asian countries. But I would say that these differences lie more within people than the practices. Sure , I could agree that marriages that take place over there probably adhere more strictly to traditions and custom; a corollary of the more conservative attitude that people living there will have. Other than this I can't see any major differences with the general overall procedure.

The general procedure/principles are pretty much the same.
What are the specific differences you are talking about ?



my main contention is that you think ppl who do arranged marriages are sorta losers. i find nothing loser-ish about what indica and roadrunner did. it's not like they were pre-ordained to be set up someone. surely, there were other people in the running, and somehow, they were the ones who "won" that particular girl/boy. just like in dating.

Although my initial post probably made you say that; I don't consider people who chose arranged marriages to be losers or consider them to be lesser than others. If their choice made them happy then they are anything but losers. My initial post was more of a probe to see how a guy could justify/rationalize his decision to choose the arranged marriage route when confronted with some of those rarely-discussed things such as the financials/prestige that gives them the upper hand in the arranged marriage system.

Now, i'm not indica nor can I speak for him, but I'm going to say that most of the following things I'm going to type are true based on a careful analysis of his reply to my initial post.

indica gave an ideal answer to my initial question; if what he says is true. He explained that he was happy with his life, not to mention popular, in his youth (In his own words an 'alpha') BUT he felt (this is hard for me to phrase) that he was losing attachment to his roots; hence his return to them and his decision to have an arranged marriage. I understand and can even relate with some of these feelings of his; anyone who has tried to adapt and fit into a different culture or caught in a cultural transition can probably relate VERY well to his predicament and eventual choice.Since I'm of South Asian descent myself, I will say that I can understand how he felt and it's difficult for me to phrase that, I have tried my best to.

My point is that although he could have easily married a woman here, and integrate quite well into western society he chose rather to go the arranged marriage route because of the nostalgia/fondness of his roots that were picking at his heartstrings, NOT because he was loser who couldn't find suitable women to date/marry due to his own personal flaws;so he instead chose to get into an arranged marriage where he could marry a very pretty/smart/(substitute whatever qualities you think makes a woman great here)/caring girl from the old country since it would be much easier for him due to his relatively better position in the world (A thought that is embedded and biases the minds of the relatives/family of the bride who obviously want the best for her )

THIS is the problem. I detest the people who indulge in this type of hypocrisy. I don't want to rant here, so let me be direct with what I want to say.
There are some men, more specifically of the South Asian background, who are pretty poor in the dating department, and don't have much 'game'. But that's no problem for them; they can just get hitched to an awesome woman from his country of origin (thanks to the traditional attitudes of people living in such places and well as the rigid arranged marriage system that prevails) since ,after all, lives in a first-world country; something that is seen as prestigious by not only the bride but also her family; this fact automatically places him on a higher pedestal than the local lot of grooms.

You might be asking what's the problem with this ? It definitely IS a win-win system for ALL parties involved; the guy gets a great partner, and the girl ends up with a husband who will give her a relatively better standard of life than what she might have had if she married someone else in her own country + Canada gets another fine, new citizen who will definitely contribute to the growth and development of the country.

The problem with this, I feel , is that it hurts the reputation ("rep") of the ethnicity in the dating scene.Some
people start to/tend to stereotype south asian men as guys who must or choose to take the arranged marriage route. Not all brown people are like this, and this definitely hurts their image specifically in the western dating scene. Infact, mockingjay404, you yourself are a victim of this stereotype,this is evident when you stated that women of only your ethnicity seem to show an interest during your online dating experience. The anonymity of internet lets people's prejudices and stereotypes come out since there are very few repercussions; and these beneath-the-surface mindsets are what people immediately rely on. The women haven't met you in person, you might be the most charming man in all of Scarborough, but online you're still another brown guy, who is clouded by the bad 'rep' that South Asian guys happen to have in the dating scene, hence the crappy response you got from women who aren't too knowledgeable (probably a majority) about the intricacies of South Asian culture;in the online dating world they only have the 'words of others' or "rep" to go by, so they won't be bother to find out what kind of person you are as they are already consciously or sub-consciously affected by some stereotype or the other. The cause of this is the whole arranged marriage thing which leads to stereotypes; it might appear to outsiders that most of the South Asian community is 'closed off' specifically in matters of marriage and love.


I guess your opinion of this is based on your own ethics and character. I'm not saying that arranged marriages shouldn't take place; but merely stating the fact that they are insidious to integration of the new generations of South Asians in Canada. Arranged marriages, in a way, isolate the ethnicity from integrating into the larger more mainstream society.

I don't want to make this post into the great Canadian novel:lol:; so I will cease here but will continue in the further posts that I will have to write;as I'm sure that this post will elicit many responses.

[mockingjay404]

jeez man, looks like you are gonna write your thesis on this subject! :D

anyways, i think you may actually make a fair bit of sense. perhaps you are right, and i've been a victim of this stereotype.

but if you step back and look at the other ethnic communities, not just South Asians, i think you'll see some similar barriers to integrating with the dominant North American culture. Maybe not as much as us but they're still there. Therefore I do think there is some blame to be applied on all sides; in particular, members of the dominant N.Am. culture who jump to conclusions regarding S-Asians and other groups, such as E-Asians.

this point is key:


it might appear to outsiders that most of the South Asian community is 'closed off' specifically in matters of marriage and love

but I could substitute a number of other cultures into the phrase "South Asian" and the statement would still be valid. i.e. Persians.

[uber_shnitz]

I agree wiht pratzy's enormously long post :lol:

Mind you, every culture has cons. North American (or Western if we include Europe) culture is littered with stereotypes and shortcomings, but since they're the predominantly portrayed media culture, it is overlooked as "the norm" (or mainstream as pratzy referred to it).

I could argue that generally most cultures (including Caucasians) tend to isolate themselves in matters of love and dating/marriage. We're coming at a turning point in the last decade in media especially where multiculturalism is taking more space and attention. Interracial couples are becoming more widespread in the media (although still not what one could call common) so the media and people are treating it more as something "normal". Now it's more a question of geography that isolates most cultures.

[Mace]

I doubt the lack of response for Toronto brown guys on POF/OKC has anything to do with women thinking "whoa this guy's just going to get an arranged marriage, I'm not going to message him." Most girls <25 on online dating sites aren't thinking long term, nor are they looking for their future husband.

Studies show that even male visible minorities who don't practice arranged marriage (East Asians, Blacks) get fewer messages that white guys.

http://hanopolis.com/?articleNo=9044&/story/Racial-preference-statistics-on-OkCupid-dating-site

I ran an experiment where I used the picture of a tall, good looking white guy and a brown guy using the exact same profile. The tall white guy was getting about 5 messages per day. The good looking brown guy didn't get a single message for weeks. Again, exact same profile but different pic.

It could just be that most women are still not comfortable with interracial dating - especially a stranger outside their social circle. And if you're a white guy, the pool of women open to dating you is much larger than if you're a brown/Asian/black guy. Thus, as a white guy you'll have more women initiating and responding to your messages.

[spike1128]

read ash's post and AtticusFinch's most recent post. it has already been established that in Canada and the USA, that "arranged marriage" is simply codeword for "online dating within your own ethnic group, for visible minority people".

Sorry I don't think it's the same. If it were truth, then you won't have those honor killings happening here. The one where you just simply "disappear" in the old country even if they are American or Canadian, if one disagree with the arrange marriage (also it seem it's one sided, and the female is the usually the one who can't refuse). Also, some visible minority doesn't do any sorts of arranged marriage. From the media, we are only aware that the Arabs and Indians are doing it.

Arrange marriage still applies to the old traditional marriage where you are set up to marry, end of story. I don't know why you want to have the word "arrange marriage" to be considered "online dating within your own ethnic group". Does it make it certain types of ethnic people practices seem not in the stone age?

[mmdc]

Interesting topic. Are arranged marriages just another form of human trafficking/prostitution? Especially when you consider the dowry factor.

[NorthYorker]

Are arranged marriages just another form of human trafficking/prostitution?I don't think so. The biggest difference is that AMs tend to be long-term relationships, there're relatively few "serial marriages".

[AtticusFinch]

Arrange marriage still applies to the old traditional marriage where you are set up to marry, end of story. I don't know why you want to have the word "arrange marriage" to be considered "online dating within your own ethnic group". Does it make it certain types of ethnic people practices seem not in the stone age?

theres definitely different variations of the arranged marriage, some more strict than others. i think the "online dating within your own ethnic group" is a more watered down and socially acceptable way of putting it (western standards), but ultimately it still means the decision of marriage is spread over multiple parties rather than simply the bride and groom. although this is true for any marriage, arranged or otherwise, theres no denying that the bride and/or groom have less ultimate say in an arranged marriage than a non-arranged one.

its not simply will A be happy with B but rather will ABCDE be happy with FGHIJ. at the end of the day, thats what every arranged marriage comes down to.

[ishfish]

Interesting topic. Are arranged marriages just another form of human trafficking/prostitution? Especially when you consider the dowry factor.

I do not know if those words are accurate - but they are interesting to consider IF there is no choice involved (regardless of dowry).

[epik89]

I think we've all heard of marriage scams. I'd assume these arranged marriages usually last a long time. If not more then a couple years at least..

those marriages scams i've heard stories of people being together for the minimum amount of 1 year then divorcing after everything's clear.

But i read an article where they were changing the rules for that and might be 5 years or something? not sure of the amount of years

[Simaahoy]

Interesting topic. Are arranged marriages just another form of human trafficking/prostitution? Especially when you consider the dowry factor.

No, because the dowry is not for a night of fun but rather as a gift for the bride.

[mockingjay404]

I think we've all heard of marriage scams. I'd assume these arranged marriages usually last a long time. If not more then a couple years at least..

those marriages scams i've heard stories of people being together for the minimum amount of 1 year then divorcing after everything's clear.

But i read an article where they were changing the rules for that and might be 5 years or something? not sure of the amount of years

lol, ppl are bringing all sorts of unrelated concepts into this discussion...

arranged marriage is the ancient and only method of marriage in the indian subcontinent since antiquity. obviously it lasts "forever" otherwise that society/civilization would have disappeared...

also, the divorce/separation rates for these types of marriages are much much lower than for those indians who engage in Western-style marriages.
the high success of arranged marriage is a fact, Google it.

the marriage scam you are referring to, is something involving immigration, that's a completely separate topic.

to make things easier, you can look at the arranged marriage cases between indian ppl who are BOTH canadian citizens -> thus no risk of scammage.

[ishfish]

No, because the dowry is not for a night of fun but rather as a gift for the bride.

There are certainly dowry variations and intentions.

Sometimes they seem more like payments than gifts. Often "I will buy your daughter in exchange for X" or "I will take your daughter off your hands if you give me X." Of course there are other variations too.

For me the concern is not arranged or non-arranged it is: freedom of choice and equity of power.

[indca]

train is going off the track; guys stay on topic...

Modern Arrange Marriage that I experienced and what is happening is no money changes hands, I am not creating a fraud nor did I create any kind of human trafficking, I was not forced into arrange marriage, and I am having a lovefull marriage.

Western society is NOT superior to south Asians; why do people feel to defend western culture? Are you married to Love marriage? or Are you married to Canada? please stop attacking Arrange marriage for a minute and try to understand real for what it is, and not start creating all this horrific and uncivilized way that you seem to think it is.

When will this battle stop? If you have not experienced other side then in no way can you evaluate or judge Arrange or Love marriage... So stop listening to all your friends and other people, and learn for your self, and please stop making statement that you have no experience in...

[NorthYorker]

Removed
You've nailed the issue. Indians is by far the largest (numerically) group to practice it, but there's nothing specifically Indian in the practice. Have you seen the "Wedding Planner" movie? It covers AM issue in it "European" form quite nicely.

[mockingjay404]

Removed

so, you decided not to pay any attention to RFD's new rules and regulations and start posting racist stuff already?

you are lucky to be a "Sr. Member" and i guess because of that, mods let you do whatever you want...

[ishfish]

train is going off the track; guys stay on topic...
and learn for your self, and please stop making statement that you have no experience in...

I appreciate your statements.

I would suggest that it is not a train on a unidirectional track or that there is one right track.

In order to learn sometimes one has to state the sterotypes that they hold so that others can help explore them.

Respectfully.

Learn for yourself - well, that would take a while if one has to be involved in all the variations - and would be quite impossible if one values exploration form both male and female perspectives.

[Pratzy]

I doubt the lack of response for Toronto brown guys on POF/OKC has anything to do with women thinking "whoa this guy's just going to get an arranged marriage, I'm not going to message him." Most girls <25 on online dating sites aren't thinking long term, nor are they looking for their future husband.

Studies show that even male visible minorities who don't practice arranged marriage (East Asians, Blacks) get fewer messages that white guys.

http://hanopolis.com/?articleNo=9044&/story/Racial-preference-statistics-on-OkCupid-dating-site

I ran an experiment where I used the picture of a tall, good looking white guy and a brown guy using the exact same profile. The tall white guy was getting about 5 messages per day. The good looking brown guy didn't get a single message for weeks. Again, exact same profile but different pic.

It could just be that most women are still not comfortable with interracial dating - especially a stranger outside their social circle. And if you're a white guy, the pool of women open to dating you is much larger than if you're a brown/Asian/black guy. Thus, as a white guy you'll have more women initiating and responding to your messages.

That's actually is my point; I said that the "rep" of South Asian guys in the dating scene is low. Sure it isn't just the arranged marriages; there probably are other factors.
But it is one of the factors that effect's people's opinions. Generally the perception is that people from the South Asian background usually marry/date within the community. I don't have the statistics but if you're of the S.Asian background then how many friends/family members of yours (who married) had an arranged marriage/married within the ethnicity; post-2000 so we are talking about modern times ? I'll be willing to bet that the majority did.

This tendency results in not enough guys putting themselves out there in the whole dating scene; hence the crappy response of women from other cultures/backgrounds.
I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with dating with your ethnicity; just pointing out that this is a vicious circle, that the lack of brown guys 'putting themselves out there' does nothing to dispel these stereotypes that cloud the ethnicity. That's why the 'tall white guy' got more of a response than the 'good-looking' brown guy, who didn't have the benefit or "rep" of being a good lover, "fun",(things that are important to most of the >25 crowd), etc. or in other words good dating material.

The most probable reason for the difference in the response is that guys of a certain race (in this case white) have better "rep" than others; which is pretty much the primary thing that most women will rely on in the online dating world, especially when it's for the short-term. That and looks.

This will vary greatly if this wasn't an online thing, as the "rep" is pretty much the only thing to go by online. If the 'good-looking' brown guy had met potential dates in person; let's say in some kind of singles gathering or whatever, then his success is chiefly dependent on things like personality,etc, which can potentially overcome the bad "rep" that clouds him.

I don't think interracial dating is really much of an issue; especially with the majority of the women. I mean, the guy has all the right things; financial independence, good character, a likable personality, etc. etc. then why should race really matter that much ?
Sure, for some women this may be a very important thing, but I think the majority would consider many factors other than race to be quite important as well.
Women,I'd like to think, would choose a guy based on those other factors I mentioned above, rather than race; I mean would she pick a d0uchebag over a much better guy just because he was of the same race ? I'd like to think not, There definitely are women who would do this, but you would be better off not dating these types of women anyways.:razz:

The better the "rep", the better initial response. But bottomline is that whatever race/ethnicity you are, it all comes down to a variety of factors such as personality,stability when things such as long-term relationships or marriage are concerned.

[thestar99]

That's actually is my point; I said that the "rep" of South Asian guys in the dating scene is low. Sure it isn't just the arranged marriages; there probably are other factors.
But it is one of the factors that effect's people's opinions. Generally the perception is that people from the South Asian background usually marry/date within the community. I don't have the statistics but if you're of the S.Asian background then how many friends/family members of yours (who married) had an arranged marriage/married within the ethnicity; post-2000 so we are talking about modern times ? I'll be willing to bet that the majority did.

This tendency results in not enough guys putting themselves out there in the whole dating scene; hence the crappy response of women from other cultures/backgrounds.
I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with dating with your ethnicity; just pointing out that this is a vicious circle, that the lack of brown guys 'putting themselves out there' does nothing to dispel these stereotypes that cloud the ethnicity. That's why the 'tall white guy' got more of a response than the 'good-looking' brown guy, who didn't have the benefit or "rep" of being a good lover, "fun",(things that are important to most of the >25 crowd), etc. or in other words good dating material.

The most probable reason for the difference in the response is that guys of a certain race (in this case white) have better "rep" than others; which is pretty much the primary thing that most women will rely on in the online dating world, especially when it's for the short-term. That and looks.

This will vary greatly if this wasn't an online thing, as the "rep" is pretty much the only thing to go by online. If the 'good-looking' brown guy had met potential dates in person; let's say in some kind of singles gathering or whatever, then his success is chiefly dependent on things like personality,etc, which can potentially overcome the bad "rep" that clouds him.

I don't think interracial dating is really much of an issue; especially with the majority of the women. I mean, the guy has all the right things; financial independence, good character, a likable personality, etc. etc. then why should race really matter that much ?
Sure, for some women this may be a very important thing, but I think the majority would consider many factors other than race to be quite important as well.
Women,I'd like to think, would choose a guy based on those other factors I mentioned above, rather than race; I mean would she pick a d0uchebag over a much better guy just because he was of the same race ? I'd like to think not, There definitely are women who would do this, but you would be better off not dating these types of women anyways.:razz:

The better the "rep", the better initial response. But bottomline is that whatever race/ethnicity you are, it all comes down to a variety of factors such as personality,stability when things such as long-term relationships or marriage are concerned.

Please put yourself out there and see first hand how hard it is for.minority guys to get quality white women. Indian women appreciate Indian guys so contacting them you have a higher chance of getting dates and relationships so I see no problem. It's sad a lot of minorities put whites on pedestal it's amazing how many times you see good looking minority women with average or ugly white guys u do not see that vice versa.for minority men.

[ssharm02]

This happened to me back in summer 2010, my parents were basically conned Mr & Mrs. S (dad's friend) and it cost my mom $7000 (and it cost me $1000). Basically, my dad wanted my sister to marry Mr.S's son (his son is very intelligent, holds an engineering degree etc) and somehow I got dragged into this mess (the friend wanted me to marry his daughter).

So my dad's friend was really serious, he wanted to set everything up and asked us to come to India to meet & greet and finalize things. He sent a fake picture of the daughter....I protested a lot, I am 100% against arrange marriage, I have seen many Indian couples and I know arrange marriage doesn't work at all. But my parents said, "oh your sister will be happy, she will be married to an engineer. etc etc" And this was really strange for a couple of reasons. First, my sister is completely westernised...she doesn't have an accent, she grew up in Canada, she had a boy friend, she works hard, goes out on the weekend. I couldn't believe she was going forth with this (I don't understand women, maybe she was doing it to boost her ego?!) And when Mr S's son used to come to our house, she used to ignore him completely (he is smart but he is very anti-social/shy/kinda strange).

Anyway, a big reason why we went to India was because this guy had said that he had talked to his children. And when we got there, he called us and said he hadn't discussed arrange marriage with his either or his children at all! Naturally my mom was furious and my sister created some bs drama. We met Mr & Mrs S a week later at a mall in NOIDA (a big mall with too many people, took us an hour to find them). Went to a craptacular restaurant, nothing about the marriage came up and we left (btw his daughter was extremely fat and ugly, nothing like the pic he sent us).

The only reason he called us over there, was because his daughter had been accepted into a Canadian university and he probably didn't want her flying to Canada all alone (she to was shy/antisocial/too stupid to fly alone like her brother). So, me, my sister and my mom were basically security escort for his daughter!! And you know what's even worse? My dad actually booked a hotel for her, paid for two nights she stayed and drove her all the way to Montreal from Toronto!! I mean can you believe this?


My advice to young lads here is, don't fall for arrange marriages! Don't let your parents blackmail you. Get a job and leave home. (I am sorry if there are any gaping holes in the story but I am not editing this) :P

[ssharm02]

Indian women appreciate Indian guys so contacting them you have a higher chance of getting dates and relationships so I see no problem.

This isn't true in my case, Indian girls don't even look at me....there are two types of Indian guys in Canada. One is the westernised Indian guy with gelled hair, ear-piercing and all and the other is the "reff/fob" Indian guy. Sadly, I fit into the second category lol, I also look kinda Iranian/Spanish so that doesn't help me either.

[Pratzy]

REMOVED
Edit: The mod removed his comment;his comment had to do with how people of a specific ethnicity, i.e. Indians, are generally more inclined to arranged marriages than most other communities. It's probably true but his idiotic and offensive tone got him canned.

Maybe that's true. What's funny about it ? Canada is a melting pot of cultures, you cannot expect people to immigrate here and instantly change their deep-rooted culture, especially their systems of institution of marriage within a single generation or even two.

I would probably say that in India, the Indians there are very strongly embedded into the culture; something that is more of a 'way of life' than a custom or practice.
When they immigrate, it's very difficult for them to even think of the notion of changing something so sacred as their system of marriage; they will readily adapt to the language and other things, but probably not be willing change something so sacrosanct to them such as their system of marriage; considered by them to be a very important 'gem' in their culture. This GREATLY varies, some might be more open-minded than others. It depends on how seriously they took their culture back home. If an immigrant's culture was something similar to North American culture, then he/she would probably would have no qualms adapting to something that's very similar. If the culture was something quite different, and also greatly respected/sacred to them; as is the case with the many South Asians, then adapting to/changing somethings is definitely a no-no, and it will probably take a few generations of 'new' Canadians for these attitude to change; you can't expect it to happen overnight.
Again, this greatly varies.

I'm of indian origins, my parents don't expect me to have an 'arranged marriage' or even consider it; although that is an option if I choose it. They generally 'joke' about one day suddenly setting me up with a girl from India; but that's what it is for me personally; something they just joke or tease me about.
I compare this to some other South Asian families I know, where it isn't even a joke, but something that will be considered seriously by the whole family (not forced though).
I haven't seen any families that have the 'arranged-marriage or die' attitude; these types of people tend to be quite rare (atleast within the Indian community); and better off as comedic fodder for Russell Peters.

This is what varies with many immigrants; some are more willing to adapt to a higher degree than others. I can't speak for some of the other immigrant communities, but as I'm of the background, I can say that Indian parents, especially the ones who immigrated here, have a high regard for their culture and will actively try to 'instill' a sense of 'Indian culture' within their children. This can include anything from religion, cuisine, to even an idea of how they should marry. Not saying that alot of Indians have 'arranged marriages' just because their parents force them to (VERY rare), but because the children pretty much grow up with a sense of the old-country culture in them, and feel that an 'arranged marriage' is right or better suited to them. By what indica wrote in his post, he himself chose an 'arranged marriage' because he felt a sense of attachment to that system; it's hard to describe, and I think people of a non-South Asian background will find it a harder to understand; unless you're caught in the same cultural transition that many immigrants are going through here in Canada.

What would you say about the earliest waves of immigration from France, during the settlement of Canada in the late 1700's/1800's, when many women were just shipped to Quebec and Acadia in droves (I should add by their own will to come to a new and promised land) and pretty much set up with the first eligible single guy waiting for them outside the boat ?
Yes, that was a totally different time period with different circumstances, but my point is that with every wave of immigration, people brought with them some of their own cultural characteristics, that eventually assimilated/became/integrated into a more larger mainstream culture, over many generations, I might add. This 'assimilation-over the generations' thing has always been the case in this country.

With that said; take your stupid borderline-trolling somewhere else and stop farting out comments that will derail the thread and lead to unnecessary nationality/ethnic comparisons.

[mrperfect]

Reminder:
Racial comments or any kind of profiling/stereotyping is strictly prohibited. We expect the general populaces to give each other respect that we expect to ourselves. :!:
Please kindly refrain from making such comments. Any further violations will result in infractions. :idea:

Thank you!

[ishfish]

What would you say about the earliest waves of immigration from France, during the settlement of Canada in the late 1700's/1800's, when many women were just shipped to Quebec and Acadia in droves (I should add by their own will to come to a new and promised land) and pretty much set up with the first eligible single guy waiting for them outside the boat ?
Yes, that was a totally different time period with different circumstances, but my point is that with every wave of immigration, people brought with them some of their own cultural characteristics, that eventually assimilated/became/integrated into a more larger mainstream culture, over many generations, I might add. This 'assimilation-over the generations' thing has always been the case in this country.


I wonder if many of these voluntarily shipped women were leaving terrible pasts behind - and I wonder how many regretted being with the single guy on the dock.
Historically women have been property in many cultures, Canada is no exception.
So if your new husband is *** and your father is over seas (and potentially a *** too), the vulnerability is remarkable.

[Pratzy]

Please put yourself out there and see first hand how hard it is for.minority guys to get quality white women. Indian women appreciate Indian guys so contacting them you have a higher chance of getting dates and relationships so I see no problem. It's sad a lot of minorities put whites on pedestal it's amazing how many times you see good looking minority women with average or ugly white guys u do not see that vice versa.for minority men.

When I was talking of 'putting yourself out there' I wasn't specifically referring to dating white women. I meant the general dating scene and the whole range of women out there.


'quality white women' ? :lol: I don't know what you mean by that, but I think to get a 'quality' woman of any kind you have to be a 'quality' man. Enough said.

Yes, I do agree that some members of minorities tend to 'pedestalize' women of a certain race. I don't know why this happens, it really shouldn't; equality and all that.
My theory is that this takes place due to a number of factors: the whole European colonialism, especially in South Asia where the British were considered (by themselves and the locals) to be somehow superior; the hard, cemented-mindsets of many South Asians that 'fair skin' is the hallmark of beauty (another little gem that's the result of colonial rule); and maybe there's something to be said about biological and evolutionary traits; it's said that more genetically dissimilar humans seek each other out somehow, hence subconscious attraction of people of very different races (thanks to the genetic dissimilarity). Don't ask me how humans recognize the genetic dissimilarity;it can be anything from factors such as subtle facial features, to hormones in sweat :lol:.

Now, I'm no scientist and that last factor isn't a tested thing, and should probably be taken in with a grain of salt. Anyways, that's my amateur theory; that any one of these, or a combination of these factors are the reason for this pedestalization.

Anyways, I don't think that it's difficult for brown men to date/marry women of other races if he happens to have the right characteristics.
Since you were talking about the whole white woman/brown guy thing, let me say that I have a family member, a cousin, who is married to a pretty and loving white woman; they have been happily married for the past 12 years. I don't think it's hard if you try; although maybe where you live could be a factor; I have noticed that S.Asian guys in the States are somewhat more successful in the interracial dating scene; or maybe that's just a delusion I have?

[konfusion666]

I have noticed that S.Asian guys in the States are somewhat more successful in the interracial dating scene; or maybe that's just a delusion I have?

I noticed that too, at least in the academic/scientific community. Based on what you've already posted, perhaps it's due to the S.Asian community being so small in the States they don't have a "rep" like they do in Canada; and so, regular non-ethnic Americans don't have any compunctions about dating them. In fact, they probably wouldn't have even encountered as many S.Asians as the typical Torontonian.


I'm of indian origins, my parents don't expect me to have an 'arranged marriage' or even consider it; although that is an option if I choose it. They generally 'joke' about one day suddenly setting me up with a girl from India; but that's what it is for me personally; something they just joke or tease me about.

Why are all these examples of "arranged" involving overseas women? Why would they never consider setting you up with Indo-Canadians?

[uber_shnitz]

What exactly IS "Canadian culture"? It's basically American culture but with more snow/hockey? :lol:

And no, I'm pretty sure Americans have the same stereotypes as we do, since we're so close. Some parts of the US might not see certain immigrants as a commodity like we do, but there's definitely the stereotypes that exist.

[Pratzy]

:lol:

That guy's huge trollish post got deleted.

Pratzy-1
Troll -0

[bullionaire]

:lol:

That guy's huge trollish post got deleted.

Pratzy-1
Troll -0

Trolls have arranged marriage. I don't. :lol:

Trollzy: 1 arranged marriage

[Pratzy]

I noticed that too, at least in the academic/scientific community. Based on what you've already posted, perhaps it's due to the S.Asian community being so small in the States they don't have a "rep" like they do in Canada; and so, regular non-ethnic Americans don't have any compunctions about dating them. In fact, they probably wouldn't have even encountered as many S.Asians as the typical Torontonian.

Yes, again this probably has something to do with the 'rep' that clouds people from the South Asian community. Small towns or cities in the States aren't predisposed to have some of the stereotypes that people, like in the GTA, might have about South Asians or other immigrants. All this proves is that without the stereotypes, immigrants have much better chances of integrating/setting into the new cultures. But again, people must also share some blame themselves for the stereotypes that exist about them; after all the sterotypes weren't created out of thin air, but most likely came about because they might have been true for some immigrants.

On the topic of the academic/scientific community; maybe that's what the key difference is. The mutual similarity of the careers/jobs/academic background two people have serves as 'something in common' and it could be a factor in what brings people together, hence the higher likelihood of the two people ending up together in a relationship.



Why are all these examples of "arranged" involving overseas women? Why would they never consider setting you up with Indo-Canadians?

Again, they were just joking. They probably preferred to use an example of setting me up with a woman from overseas, since it would probably be very hard for me to adjust to someone like that; as opposed to an Indo-Canadian, and therein lies the humor for them (I'm not laughing).

If I ever proclaimed an interest in an arranged marriage (:lol:),
they probably would mostly consider Indo-Canadian women due to the better 'compatibility'.

[spike1128]

Question.

When did Mrperfect become a mod?

[mockingjay404]

Question.

When did Mrperfect become a mod?

who cares? the important thing is that he's keeping the racist trolls at bay... kudos to him!

[Mace]

Yes, again this probably has something to do with the 'rep' that clouds people from the South Asian community. Small towns or cities in the States aren't predisposed to have some of the stereotypes that people, like in the GTA, might have about South Asians or other immigrants. All this proves is that without the stereotypes, immigrants have much better chances of integrating/setting into the new cultures. But again, people must also share some blame themselves for the stereotypes that exist about them; after all the sterotypes weren't created out of thin air, but most likely came about because they might have been true for some immigrants.


This is very true. My good-looking brown guy profile was drawing far more favourable responses when I had set my location to a smaller city in Southern Ontario. I was pulling in white women from Guelph, Cambridge, Kitchener, Waterloo, Brantford, country girls from small towns etc.

I was puzzled by this initially, then realized that the South Asian community is small to non-existent in these towns, so their perception of South Asians is neutral (and may even be perceived as exotic). However, a white girl in the GTA may harbour negative stereotypes towards South Asian men due to bad experiences. With Toronto women, one of the first questions I'd get is "what's your background?" When I'd tell them I got radio silence.

Ironically, a brown guy looking to date white women will have far more success in smaller cities outside of the GTA where there aren't too many other brown guys to fuk up his rep.

[manmanny]

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=14862502


who cares? the important thing is that he's keeping the racist trolls at bay... kudos to him!

When he started parsing Toronto.
When his avatar changed. felt something was up.

[indca]

This happened to me back in summer 2010, my parents were basically conned Mr & Mrs. S (dad's friend) and it cost my mom $7000 (and it cost me $1000). Basically, my dad wanted my sister to marry Mr.S's son (his son is very intelligent, holds an engineering degree etc) and somehow I got dragged into this mess (the friend wanted me to marry his daughter).

So my dad's friend was really serious, he wanted to set everything up and asked us to come to India to meet & greet and finalize things. He sent a fake picture of the daughter....I protested a lot, I am 100% against arrange marriage, I have seen many Indian couples and I know arrange marriage doesn't work at all. But my parents said, "oh your sister will be happy, she will be married to an engineer. etc etc" And this was really strange for a couple of reasons. First, my sister is completely westernised...she doesn't have an accent, she grew up in Canada, she had a boy friend, she works hard, goes out on the weekend. I couldn't believe she was going forth with this (I don't understand women, maybe she was doing it to boost her ego?!) And when Mr S's son used to come to our house, she used to ignore him completely (he is smart but he is very anti-social/shy/kinda strange).

Anyway, a big reason why we went to India was because this guy had said that he had talked to his children. And when we got there, he called us and said he hadn't discussed arrange marriage with his either or his children at all! Naturally my mom was furious and my sister created some bs drama. We met Mr & Mrs S a week later at a mall in NOIDA (a big mall with too many people, took us an hour to find them). Went to a craptacular restaurant, nothing about the marriage came up and we left (btw his daughter was extremely fat and ugly, nothing like the pic he sent us).

The only reason he called us over there, was because his daughter had been accepted into a Canadian university and he probably didn't want her flying to Canada all alone (she to was shy/antisocial/too stupid to fly alone like her brother). So, me, my sister and my mom were basically security escort for his daughter!! And you know what's even worse? My dad actually booked a hotel for her, paid for two nights she stayed and drove her all the way to Montreal from Toronto!! I mean can you believe this?


My advice to young lads here is, don't fall for arrange marriages! Don't let your parents blackmail you. Get a job and leave home. (I am sorry if there are any gaping holes in the story but I am not editing this) :P


I understand whats your saying, and there are things you or any of your friends can do next time someone goes to India to make it a good experience.

1) You need to start the process outlined below at least six months before going to India

2) First thing you need before going to India is you need someone back there who is well respected in the community and someone you can trust; they will gather all the proposal that come for you, and work as mediators and give you tips of whats good and whats bad.

3) You need to send your picture, Bio and Janmaksar to one location where prospective parents have access to your information.

4) Give contact in India your email address, tell them to send all the girls information in terms of pictures, Bio, Janmaksar to you

5) You can start talking to girl and her family through webcam and telephone; you can start to weed the bad and select the girls and proposals that you like the most; talk to her over time, and stay in contact.

6) You need to select a location in India where you'll be staying; you'll need at least 1 month minimum to stay somewhere

7) You will need to select a location and date of marriage in advance at least six month before you decide to go there, do not wait until last minute or you will end up without any location to arrange the marriage.

8) You will get at least 20 proposals, and when word gets out that you are coming then more relatives will give you hints about which prospective girls are looking for groom, and they will work as a mediator if you like the proposal to take the proposal back to girls family.


You will get all kind of proposals: the kind I got were beautiful, educated, rich, traditional, modern, city girl, village girl, young (18 age), Old (24 age); as you can see, here you'll need to know what you want in a life partner and select accordingly; when you go to India DO NOT trust any one, even your family; trust your guts and make your choice according to what you value the most.

9) When you'll go there; you will have roughly 20 proposals to work with, now select the girls that you like the most, and invite them to your house; talk to girl and find out if you guys like each other; you won't have lot of time, so do you due diligence before arranging this meeting; ask around and talk to the girl.

10) You will also encounter lots of girls during various marriages and functions that you'll attend in India, do make note of them when you notice and talk around and find information; It seems this events are very popular places to get noticed...

[Mace]

You will get all kind of proposals: the kind I got were beautiful, educated, rich, traditional, modern, city girl, village girl, young (18 age), Old (24 age); as you can see, here you'll need to know what you want in a life partner and select accordingly; when you go to India DO NOT trust any one, even your family; trust your guts and make your choice according to what you value the most.

9) When you'll go there; you will have roughly 20 proposals to work with, now select the girls that you like the most, and invite them to your house; talk to girl and find out if you guys like each other; you won't have lot of time, so do you due diligence before arranging this meeting; ask around and talk to the girl.

10) You will also encounter lots of girls during various marriages and functions that you'll attend in India, do make note of them when you notice and talk around and find information; It seems this events are very popular places to get noticed...

To be honest this sounds like a sweet deal for Indian guys in Canada.

Have your fun with the girls here, and when you get to about 30 go back to the motherland to choose from 20 hot young virgins all lined up to marry you. And the girl gets to live a First World lifestyle. win-win.

Just look at all the guys here just struggling to get a date.

So why the opposition?

[manmanny]

The point of an arranged marriage is to get the kids out of the house! Just before I left high school there was this girl in my class that met some people in her house. After they left, she was told that the guy she just met is going to be her husband. She cried all day. Two months after school she married him. The guy was in heaven because she was gorgeous!

I thought that was by 18 or 20 or may be once you finish Uni education.
Why in the heck you need arranged marriages? People are so afraid to find partners on their own?

[spike1128]

To be honest this sounds like a sweet deal for Indian guys in Canada.

Have your fun with the girls here, and when you get to about 30 go back to the motherland to choose from 20 hot young virgins all lined up to marry you. And the girl gets to live a First World lifestyle. win-win.

Just look at all the guys here just struggling to get a date.

So why the opposition?

Nobody is opposing, especially the guys. That's why it's done.

Not to mention, they can pull that off in the motherland as well. Did anyone watch that episode on W5 talking about the guy go to motherland to get married (taking virginity and the money as well), the girl come to Canada thinking she can stay (in reality, the guy didn't even do her immigration), and the guy pretend he haven't meet her before. Then have her deported.

[Mace]

To guys not familiar with the whole process, this is how it works:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iri3lM8fQaQ

[indca]

Nobody is opposing, especially the guys. That's why it's done.

Not to mention, they can pull that off in the motherland as well. Did anyone watch that episode on W5 talking about the guy go to motherland to get married (taking virginity and the money as well), the girl come to Canada thinking she can stay (in reality, the guy didn't even do her immigration), and the guy pretend he haven't meet her before. Then have her deported.



This is happenning very rarely as you can imagine this country has few perverts and rapist here as well; And, its likely that this few bad guys take advantage of the system, and are immature when making this decision and they make bad name for the community.

Ya, W5 can make a report about husband deporting her newly married wife; but they can similarly make report on various instances where wife is abused and treated wrongly in other races and cultures, this is human nature after all even if it is sickening nature.


All I ask is do not make stereo type about culture by looking at few bad cases.

[xt21]

It's our people's counter measure to the "forever alone" lifestyle and its been practiced on from generation to generation haha! I see it as a last case resort option if all else fails. A lifeline?

[indca]

It's our people's counter measure to the "forever alone" lifestyle and its been practiced on from generation to generation haha! I see it as a last case resort option if all else fails. A lifeline?


and makes me wonder of why people choose a single life.

What do these people do, is dating and going out with woman the only way to spend time with a lady? What makes them afraid to relationship and commitment? Are they really enjoying the party and clubbing scene after their 30's?

Is our so called North American Freedom in Single life?

In india, if you are over the age of 30 and single then something is wrong with you really mentally or physically, and you are considered an old person and pretty much outcast; why are people here so relaxed into their 30's?

Here, In Canada the best topic seems to be high divorce rate as well as getting a prenuptial agreement before getting married; And, how can we forget the all time favorite concept of love marriage; no body gives a damn about marriage it self and long term relationship, where you raise your children and live a family life.

[ishfish]

If people do not want to get married they should not. If the motivation to get married is to to avoid a notion of being mentally or physically unwell then - the marriage is off to a rather poor start and unfair to a partner who may actually want to be married.

I would say it is the same with children - how unfortunate/selfish people have them just to avoid critism.

Divorce rates? What do they mean? Unhappy marriages in a given population OR that a given population is more accepting of divorce? You have to be careful with interpretation.

[Frankie3s]

If people do not want to get married they should not. If the motivation to get married is to to avoid a notion of being mentally or physically unwell then - the marriage is off to a rather poor start and unfair to a partner who may actually want to be married.

I would say it is the same with children - how unfortunate/selfish people have them just to avoid critism.

Divorce rates? What do they mean? Unhappy marriages in a given population OR that a given population is more accepting of divorce? You have to be careful with interpretation.

Well said.

[indca]

If people do not want to get married they should not. If the motivation to get married is to to avoid a notion of being mentally or physically unwell then - the marriage is off to a rather poor start and unfair to a partner who may actually want to be married.

I would say it is the same with children - how unfortunate/selfish people have them just to avoid critism.

Divorce rates? What do they mean? Unhappy marriages in a given population OR that a given population is more accepting of divorce? You have to be careful with interpretation.


Why people do not want to get married, is there a bigger reward waiting? Why is getting married and staying married so difficult in our society?

We are not talking about 20 year old kids here, this are grown men over the age of 30; or is the new norm for becoming men is at the age over 40; oh my?

What do this married people seek when getting divorced? Are they choosing single life again? or are they dipping back into dating scene? Is it becoming too easy to turn the page by getting divorced and joining dating scene again?

[ishfish]

Why people do not want to get married, is there a bigger reward waiting? Why is getting married and staying married so difficult in our society?

We are not talking about 20 year old kids here, this are grown men over the age of 30; or is the new norm for becoming men is at the age over 40; oh my?

What do this married people seek when getting divorced? Are they choosing single life again? or are they dipping back into dating scene? Is it becoming too easy to turn the page by getting divorced and joining dating scene again?

Not everyone wants to shop at Walmart. Walmart spends millions and millions every year trying to convince all the shoppers to go there, but it is just not for some people.

Marriage is like Walmart - it is just not for some people.

Is there a bigger reward waiting? Maybe it is not about expecting a reward - it is about fit.

And I think it is okay for men and women to remain single if they wish. If they are single because they do not wish to be that is unfortunate. If they are married and never wanted to be that is sad for both them and their partner.

Why is getting married hard? I do not know. Hard to meet the right person. Have expectations become too high? I do not know. It does make sense that if it is ok to be single then people may see it as a good option over being stuck with an undesirable partner.

Why is it hard to stay married? I do not think most people who divorce do so causally. Something has happened. At the very least the romantic passion has faded and some people do not know how to adjust to that. Then there is substance abuse, domestic abuse...cheating...inability to compromise and be a partner.

I think in the past there were a lot of people (maybe mostly women do to economic predjudices) who stayed in abusive/unhealthy marriages.

What happens after divorce? Some people choose to stay single becuase they have realized marriage in and of itself is just not for them. Others are scared by abuse. And some just have a hard time in the dating pool.

[yucksta]

Traditionally, South Asian communities are very classicist, communal and family-centric. Arranged marriages were a way of controlling who marries who to maintain separate caste/tribal identities, and to underscore the point about marriages serving the role of tying two families together, not just two individuals. It's also ultimately a business transaction, as both groom and bride are economic properties that have "value" from the perspective of the larger family and shared responsibilities based on relationships.

[indca]

Not everyone wants to shop at Walmart. Walmart spends millions and millions every year trying to convince all the shoppers to go there, but it is just not for some people.

Marriage is like Walmart - it is just not for some people.

Is there a bigger reward waiting? Maybe it is not about expecting a reward - it is about fit.

And I think it is okay for men and women to remain single if they wish. If they are single because they do not wish to be that is unfortunate. If they are married and never wanted to be that is sad for both them and their partner.

Why is getting married hard? I do not know. Hard to meet the right person. Have expectations become too high? I do not know. It does make sense that if it is ok to be single then people may see it as a good option over being stuck with an undesirable partner.

Why is it hard to stay married? I do not think most people who divorce do so causally. Something has happened. At the very least the romantic passion has faded and some people do not know how to adjust to that. Then there is substance abuse, domestic abuse...cheating...inability to compromise and be a partner.

I think in the past there were a lot of people (maybe mostly women do to economic predjudices) who stayed in abusive/unhealthy marriages.

What happens after divorce? Some people choose to stay single becuase they have realized marriage in and of itself is just not for them. Others are scared by abuse. And some just have a hard time in the dating pool.



The thing that separates our culture from south Indian culture;

Its like two world in one; I understand the choice part, but have we become to critical, and has our choice become too broad and expectations too high when choosing a partner?

Is marriage seen as losing freedom?

I see lot of people hang on to the idea of finding the right partner, and things like chemistry and desire for each other and yet marriage has to over come all this, Marriage should be something sacred and not taken lightly;

women and men do not think alike on many instances, and there needs to be trigger that makes each partner understand the difference, and that does not mean they are incompatible.

I studied a lot of social dynamic and psychologist always recommend that it requires two different personality, like introvert vs extrovert person to get together for marriage to work, as only knowing opposite makes one understand the nature of self and behavior; still, we are busy finding the right partner that can fulfill all our expectation and that makes it hard to know or face something that is opposite of one self.

[aplayaz2000]

assuming you can't find a girl you like
and assuming you can get hooked up with a girl you're attracted to

is it right? simply based on first impresions

[masterhapposai]

I understand whats your saying, and there are things you or any of your friends can do next time someone goes to India to make it a good experience.

1) You need to start the process outlined below at least six months before going to India

2) First thing you need before going to India is you need someone back there who is well respected in the community and someone you can trust; they will gather all the proposal that come for you, and work as mediators and give you tips of whats good and whats bad.

3) You need to send your picture, Bio and Janmaksar to one location where prospective parents have access to your information.

4) Give contact in India your email address, tell them to send all the girls information in terms of pictures, Bio, Janmaksar to you

5) You can start talking to girl and her family through webcam and telephone; you can start to weed the bad and select the girls and proposals that you like the most; talk to her over time, and stay in contact.

6) You need to select a location in India where you'll be staying; you'll need at least 1 month minimum to stay somewhere

7) You will need to select a location and date of marriage in advance at least six month before you decide to go there, do not wait until last minute or you will end up without any location to arrange the marriage.

8) You will get at least 20 proposals, and when word gets out that you are coming then more relatives will give you hints about which prospective girls are looking for groom, and they will work as a mediator if you like the proposal to take the proposal back to girls family.


You will get all kind of proposals: the kind I got were beautiful, educated, rich, traditional, modern, city girl, village girl, young (18 age), Old (24 age); as you can see, here you'll need to know what you want in a life partner and select accordingly; when you go to India DO NOT trust any one, even your family; trust your guts and make your choice according to what you value the most.

9) When you'll go there; you will have roughly 20 proposals to work with, now select the girls that you like the most, and invite them to your house; talk to girl and find out if you guys like each other; you won't have lot of time, so do you due diligence before arranging this meeting; ask around and talk to the girl.

10) You will also encounter lots of girls during various marriages and functions that you'll attend in India, do make note of them when you notice and talk around and find information; It seems this events are very popular places to get noticed...


would this work if you're chinese?

[thestar99]

would this work if you're chinese?

I am sure it would work if u did the same thing in china buddy of mine did it and he is happy now

[AtticusFinch]

If people do not want to get married they should not. If the motivation to get married is to to avoid a notion of being mentally or physically unwell then - the marriage is off to a rather poor start and unfair to a partner who may actually want to be married.

I would say it is the same with children - how unfortunate/selfish people have them just to avoid critism.

Divorce rates? What do they mean? Unhappy marriages in a given population OR that a given population is more accepting of divorce? You have to be careful with interpretation.

this


Traditionally, South Asian communities are very classicist, communal and family-centric. Arranged marriages were a way of controlling who marries who to maintain separate caste/tribal identities, and to underscore the point about marriages serving the role of tying two families together, not just two individuals. It's also ultimately a business transaction, as both groom and bride are economic properties that have "value" from the perspective of the larger family and shared responsibilities based on relationships.

and this

[Abel4Life]

Traditionally, South Asian communities are very classicist, communal and family-centric. Arranged marriages were a way of controlling who marries who to maintain separate caste/tribal identities, and to underscore the point about marriages serving the role of tying two families together, not just two individuals. It's also ultimately a business transaction, as both groom and bride are economic properties that have "value" from the perspective of the larger family and shared responsibilities based on relationships.

Well if they continue with gender selection abortions over there it will soon be a huge fight over the remaining female population. Arranged marraiges will be tougher and not even dowry would be able to buy a bride as it would be like 10 guys competing for 1 girl (worst case - if it gets THAT bad).

I have nothing aganst arranged marriages as I have friends whom have been part of it. I just don't agree with the 'I must listen to my parents wishes' crap. Many parents are old-time thinkers and sometimes you cannot just take what they pressure.

Had a friend whom was a higher caste then his current wife. He had to fly to India to BEG/Convince his parents to let him marry the girl. Keep in mind this girl is working in IT, successfull and pretty etc. Just for the caste alone, his parents didn't like her (same race, same religion, just different caste). In the end he moved forward and it all worked out. 'facepalm' to old-time thinking parents.

[coriolis]

would this work if you're chinese?


I am sure it would work if u did the same thing in china buddy of mine did it and he is happy now

Hell, you could probably make a few thousand dollars by doing an arranged marriage and get the other party immigration.;)

[ishfish]

The thing that separates our culture from south Indian culture;

Its like two world in one; I understand the choice part, but have we become to critical, and has our choice become too broad and expectations too high when choosing a partner?

Is marriage seen as losing freedom?

I see lot of people hang on to the idea of finding the right partner, and things like chemistry and desire for each other and yet marriage has to over come all this, Marriage should be something sacred and not taken lightly;

women and men do not think alike on many instances, and there needs to be trigger that makes each partner understand the difference, and that does not mean they are incompatible.

I am at work - so I must be quick.
Love is a feelng Marriage is a contract. People bring into the contract expectations - what they do and do not want, what they are and are not willing to give. Unfortunately these things are not always known or expressed until there is a problem.

Are expectations too high? I would say yes. There seems to be a expectation that Happiness must be immediate and now: no wait no work. And it must be stable - a constant state of effortless bliss. I wish. I also wish I had a better knowledge of when Happiness became an expectation as I suspect it may be modern (ie. marriage was the contract and the Mistress was the Happiness).

So then in marriage what are we talking about when we talk Happiness. A nice car? Again I wish as that would be easy.

Many things are Happiness, but lets narrow it down to intimacy. It is physical and emotional. Intimacy is not sex, but fortunately it can involve sex. And if you are lucky - sex and a really nice car.

What do you need for intimacy - empathy, understanding and compassion. Very important things for everyone regardless of marriage. But these are learned.
Our need for intimacy is basic and ancient but it has been historically absent for so many people that there are few role models on how to develop these skills. When I read how some users interact on this site I see a "Me, me, me" and a ""I win and you loose" mentality - little how do we have our differences and accept each other. Good thing this is not a dating site. But I wonder if this translates into the non-rfd world.

Is marriage seen as a loss of freedom? Well lets face it, it does complicate dropping one's socks all over the house until the yearly clean up time.

What is freedom? To do as one pleases? Is the other word for that selfishness? If it is selfishness then best not to inflict one's self on a marriage partner. But if it is just wanting the ability to watch the cfl with friends...then those are the things that tie back into "What I want and what I am willing to give." The things that healthy flexible relationships accept and embrace (okay, now that sounds drippy, but I am trying to be quick). Those are the things that help us practice relationship skills.

I would agree there often are basic differences between men and women - men fix and women process. A generalization certainly but not a value statement as both are valuable.

Regarding extroversion and introversion - my recollection of studies on marriage would be that opposites might attract but they do not necessarily stay together. I would think that there are other factors rather that energy expenditure that would be more important. Such as (again this will have a drippy warning) creating a shared meaning, admiration, conflict management, shared life dreams, a fit with the wants and the gives...all those intimacy things.

[konfusion666]

Unusually profound for rfd, ishfish ;)

[ishfish]

Unusually profound for rfd, ishfish ;)

:)

Sadly Profound is usually the end of a thread.:lol:

[Hitman21]

I oppose arranged marriages, they are an absolute violation of freedom since many times the women has no choice and is forced by her family to marry. If two people like each other and want to get married there is nothing wrong with that at all.

[ishfish]

I oppose arranged marriages, they are an absolute violation of freedom since many times the women has no choice and is forced by her family to marry. If two people like each other and want to get married there is nothing wrong with that at all.

Welcome back.

Historically marriages were business: What to do with girls and goats? There were just pawns to forge alliances, pay debts...

Now most? girls have some protection and marriage involves the consent of the bride and groom. This is even true in many arrange marriages - arranged just means "introduced by family," it no longer means forced.

So now people marry for reasons other than business - love, compatibility....with and without family permission.

"If two people like each other and want to get married there is nothing wrong with that at all," even if they are same sex.

I think Hitman21, you and I have disagreed on that before...and I respect that.
It just seems to be a progression, if now marriage is about love... and not just alliances.

[Hitman21]

Welcome back.

Historically marriages were business: What to do with girls and goats? There were just pawns to forge alliances, pay debts...

Now most? girls have some protection and marriage involves the consent of the bride and groom. This is even true in many arrange marriages - arranged just means "introduced by family," it no longer means forced.

So now people marry for reasons other than business - love, compatibility....with and without family permission.

"If two people like each other and want to get married there is nothing wrong with that at all," even if they are same sex.

I think Hitman21, you and I have disagreed on that before...and I respect that.
It just seems to be a progression, if now marriage is about love... and not just alliances.


Thank You! Its been pretty much about two months of Hitman free-RFD :(

I know of many cases where there is an arranged marriage and the bride has no choice and has to marry the groom, which is wrong and I oppose these marriages along with the ones that involve dowry. There are still many arranged marriages happening in Canada where the bride is forced to marry and sometimes its to a much older man or even there own cousin.

How often does the bride both have a choice and can reject the groom? How often do these type of arranged marriages with choice happen and are they still very common? As well how often do love marriages happen where boy and girl date and then get married?

If the parents just do some matchmaking and BOTH the boy and girl agree then there I have no problem with, freedom isn't being violated and there is no force.

But I know that it is still very common where the girl is forced to marry which is a violation of her freedom along with mine.

[ishfish]

How often does the bride both have a choice and can reject the groom? How often do these type of arranged marriages with choice happen and are they still very common? As well how often do love marriages happen where boy and girl date and then get married?

If the parents just do some matchmaking and BOTH the boy and girl agree then there I have no problem with, freedom isn't being violated and there is no force.

But I know that it is still very common where the girl is forced to marry which is a violation of her freedom along with mine.

I agree. It is very sad, particularly for the little girls who are raped by their husbands.

Boys/man usually have more power so I usually think of the girl as being more of the victim....maybe I need to think a little more about the boys too.

[cheapgeek]

....maybe I need to think a little more about the boys too.

Yes and think of all the ones that have to marry even when they are not heterosexual:cry:

[ishfish]

Yes and think of all the ones that have to marry even when they are not heterosexual:cry:

Wow. There are many variables here.

The only gay men I know who married heterosexually did so with their consent...much to the later regret of their wife.