[Merged] Shots fired in Eaton Centre

[manmanny]

Shots fired in Eaton Centre Food Court. I think food court. !@#$

[RolandCouch]

Crappy situation. Hope everyone is ok.

People need to stop trying to settle their problems with weapons.

[w4rrior]

Are you there right now? If so, stay safe!

[Abel4Life]

Crappy situation. Hope everyone is ok.

People need to stop trying to settle their problems with weapons.

Thugs are not people.

[manmanny]

No. But thanks.

[Poulet]

in what world do we live in :-(

[Drew87]

Brett Lawrie of the Jays was at the Eaton centre he tweeted pictures of outside the eaton centre from his phone....Reports are a woman was shot in the food court...

[w4rrior]

heres a brief article:

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1205036--shooting-reported-at-eaton-centre?bn=1

[chinese zzz]

Can I have full details for this news...

Thanked goodness I didn't go this week...:-0

[Abel4Life]

Friend was there during the evacuation. Some cops had sniper rifles. Sounds like an episode of 'Flashpoint' except in real life.

To Add: Some of the mall doors were locked as police rushed in. Mob of people were rushing to streetcars, subway, etc.

[Drew87]

Cp24 is live there now....

[yao416]

Jane Creba 2.0

Hope everyone is ok

[Kunman]

Friend was there during the evacuation. Some cops had sniper rifles. Sounds like an episode of 'Flashpoint' except in real life.

To Add: Some of the mall doors were locked as police rushed in. Mob of people were rushing to streetcars, subway, etc.

some doors were locked by who?

are you saying the police locked the doors after the rushed in? or the doors were already locked<---if this is the case, than its a planned terrorist attack

[Drew87]

"People were shot at the Eaton centre, let me act like a tool behind the reporter"

what is wrong with people?

[matdwyer]

http://t.co/udvolzXd here's a video of a black man taken out on a stretcher, the reports say he had 4 bullet wounds.

The suspect according to twitter reports was a black man, 20-25 years old.

The other potential victims were female, apparently bystanders, one as young as 13 years old.

Piece that info together how you want to - this isn't an Eaton Center problem, this is a problem that can & will happen anywhere.

And no, this isn't a terrorist attack at all, they would have done lockdown procedures which include locking the doors.

[Kunman]

http://t.co/udvolzXd here's a video of a black man taken out on a stretcher, the reports say he had 4 bullet wounds.

The suspect according to twitter reports was a black man, 20-25 years old.

The other potential victims were female, apparently bystanders, one as young as 13 years old.

Piece that info together how you want to - this isn't an Eaton Center problem, this is a problem that can & will happen anywhere.

And no, this isn't a terrorist attack at all, they would have done lockdown procedures which include locking the doors.

13.... omg....

btw RFDers GOOD TIME FOR LOOTING !!

[trixstar]

oh dayumm, i would have been there if i hadn't given up on trying to find the 6" ceramic knife at the bay for 11.99.. good thing i decided against it.

[Drew87]

http://t.co/udvolzXd here's a video of a black man taken out on a stretcher, the reports say he had 4 bullet wounds.

The suspect according to twitter reports was a black man, 20-25 years old.

The other potential victims were female, apparently bystanders, one as young as 13 years old.

Piece that info together how you want to - this isn't an Eaton Center problem, this is a problem that can & will happen anywhere.

And no, this isn't a terrorist attack at all, they would have done lockdown procedures which include locking the doors.

Cp24 just said that one of them were shot dead or have died....dunno for sure.

And there's a lot of reports saying that people suffered flesh wounds...

[Sliq]

Wow.. I'm speechless... There's little innocent kids there, some people have no regard for human life at all..

[Manatus]

CityTV is reporting that between 10-15 shots were fired, and one person "may" have been killed. Witnesses are also being interviewed who say that they saw someone laying on the ground and not moving after being shot.

Man, Brett Lawrie always seems to be in the centre of the action. Hope that the report is wrong and that everyone is OK.

[Kunman]

man alot of crazy stuff going on in Canada this year :mad: ....wish i dident know about any of this

[jaysfan4life]

He should have stole the gun instead of attempting to steal 3rd.

[matdwyer]

Someone who appeared to be there and live tweeting everything mentioned that a girl was rushed to sick kids hospital. He looks to be a camera man

Here are some of his tweets:

DR ‏@Media371
Paramedics attending to a pregnant female who was inside the mall at the time and trampled on from the stampede. Her water has broken.

DR ‏@Media371
25 year old female shooting victim has just arrived at St. Mikes Hospital. 13 year old female shooting victim at Sick Kids Hospital.

DR ‏@Media371
Female shot at Eaton Centre is 13 years old. Emergency run being set up to St. Mike's Hospital. Possibly a second patient.

[Mr._Hankey]

I guess Jane and Finch is no longer enough for them...

[Sliq]

I can totally see Malls requiring metal detectors to enter now after this ****

[Longobongo]

cp24 is reporting 6 shot, 1 of them fatal

damn the stupidity of people

[jaysfan4life]

Anyone that lives in Toronto has to know that there is a good chance to get shot at any mall with a subway station. Yes Toronto is just that ghetto.

[Manatus]

"I heard a mother say, 'My son was shot,'" a man named Sergio told CityNews.

"We were just in the food court when I heard this sound. I turned around and I saw one man firing shots...Within seconds this big guy just fell beside me. I'm not sure if he's dead, but he fell."

Scary stuff.

[sandikosh]

http://t.co/udvolzXd here's a video of a black man taken out on a stretcher, the reports say he had 4 bullet wounds.

The suspect according to twitter reports was a black man, 20-25 years old.

The other potential victims were female, apparently bystanders, one as young as 13 years old.

Piece that info together how you want to - this isn't an Eaton Center problem, this is a problem that can & will happen anywhere.

And no, this isn't a terrorist attack at all, they would have done lockdown procedures which include locking the doors.

I'm not surprised.

[mrjun18]

that food court isnt even a year old (i think) and there is already a shooting there. smh....

there was just a shooting in the scarborough town area (on the bus at the stc station), a few days ago as well.

[Ironsmack]

Wow, this brought back memories of the Creba shootings.

I hope those people that got shots are ok :(

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120602/120602_Eaton_Centre_Shooting/20120602/?hub=CP24Home

[Drew87]

CP24 ‏@CP24

BREAKING: Mayor Rob Ford is heading to the Eaton Centre shooting.

[jp06]

pure chaos there....

[Punky Hunky]

that food court isnt even a year old (i think) and there is already a shooting there. smh....

there was just a shooting in the scarborough town area (on the bus at the stc station), a few days ago as well.

It happened in the food court in urban eatery. We will see how the media reacts as reports have a black male being shot unlike the creba shooting

[mysticalinfluence]

Anyone that lives in Toronto has to know that there is a good chance to get shot at any mall with a subway station. Yes Toronto is just that ghetto.

This joke right your from Scarborough and your calling Toronto ghetto. :lol:

[Abel4Life]

It happened in the food court by queen not te urban eatery. We will see how the media reacts as reports have a black male being shot unlike the creba shooting

Its seems to be a black on black shooting so Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson will not make themselves present.

[DearSummer]

Toronto is extremely safe for a big city.

[Jump]

It happened in the food court by queen not te urban eatery. We will see how the media reacts as reports have a black male being shot unlike the creba shooting

Are you sure it happened there? I was in Sears at the time and they locked the place down and said it happened beneath the store in the food court. We were escorted out of the back near Joey's. Plus the video posted earlier shows a victim being wheeled out in a stretcher up near Yonge and Dundas. That would be a long way to wheel someone through a mall if it happened down near the Queen Street entrance.

[nickinto]

Big props to all security guards that helped evacuate the mall..takes courage to stay in a mall unarmed with a gunman possibly on the loose.

[45ED]

Are you sure it happened there? I was in Sears at the time and they locked the place down and said it happened beneath the store in the food court. We were escorted out of the back near Joey's. Plus the video posted earlier shows a victim being wheeled out in a stretcher up near Yonge and Dundas. That would be a long way to wheel someone through a mall if it happened down near the Queen Street entrance.

CP24? Something? Can't recall which outlet but it was reported to a reporter by someone who was on the scene in the food court said that he was there when he, I can't recall why, turned around and saw the gunman who began shooting; he reported that a man a close by fell over just a few moments after.

[thrifthunter]

Toronto is extremely safe for a big city.

It seems this statement is always made for every big city in US and Canada.

[glover78]

My friend was there and said one of the people shot was right next to him :-0:-0

Glad my friend got out ok.

On a sidenote I couldn't help that 80+ ppl were viewing this thread. This is the hottest thread going on right now.

[ishfish]

I lold

This is one of the unfortunate side effects of RFD members being banned, we just take It elsewhere. I loved his peace shirt though.

[Drew87]

It's crazy because the shooter can be anywhere....The Eaton centre is huge, the guy could have gotten on the subway easily before it was shut down, the guy could have just ditched the gun and joined the mob outside... There are a lot of exits and places to hide.....

Obviously when they look at the cameras they'll have a better idea of what he looks like but it's crazy....

[verano888]

It's quite sad that people are already assuming that the shooter is black. For all we know, the shooter could be indian/white/arab/asian.

[nickinto]

It's crazy because the shooter can be anywhere....The Eaton centre is huge, the guy could have gotten on the subway easily before it was shut down, the guy could have just ditched the gun and joined the mob outside... There are a lot of exits and places to hide.....

Obviously when they look at the cameras they'll have a better idea of what he looks like but it's crazy....

The shooter is an absolute idiot: I have no doubt that his face was recorded on at least a dozen security cameras from the food court, to the entrance/exit of the mall, in the TTC, etc... they'll have his face all over the news shortly.

They already know it's a black male with a hat...go figure

[nickinto]

It's quite sad that people are already assuming that the shooter is black. For all we know, the shooter could be indian/white/arab/asian.

Eye witnesses have already reported that it's a black male with a dark hat.

You're the one being racist for trying to imply a race prejudice.

[45ED]

From Twitter


CTVToronto
BREAKING: Eight victims, including one fatality, in Eaton Centre shooting, Toronto police confirm
less than 1 minute ago from HootSuite

crikey.

Edit:

CTVToronto
Two victims from Eaton Centre shooting in critical condition, one in life-threatening condition, Toronto police say
less than 1 minute ago from HootSuite

[Drew87]

The shooter is an absolute idiot: I have no doubt that his face was recorded on at least a dozen security cameras from the food court, to the entrance/exit of the mall, in the TTC, etc... they'll have his face all over the news shortly.

They already know it's a black male with a hat...go figure

I agree - I think the people that were standing in the crowd earlier are idiots...It's like there's been a shooting, RUN AWAY from the damn area...This guy could have went on a shooting spree outside after the fact if he wanted.....It's just odd to me....

Everyone has a cell phone - it's not like it's hard to find out what's going on....

[movieking]

Following this on Twitter all night. It's worth noting the the 8 victims are not all victims of the shooting, some suffered injuries in the chaos trying to get out (trampling, etc).

[Simaahoy]

This is crazy. R.I.P

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/torontos-eaton-centre-evacuated-after-food-court-shooting/article4226794/

[dudebro]

this is downright terrifying. i always frequent the eatons centre and never in my life have i felt worried for my safety. i cannot even begin to imagine the fear experienced amongst those in the mall. tragic situation.

for those specifying the suspects race, can i just ask where your sources are coming from? with direct links if possible. i have been following this since 630pm via cp24 and local radio - i actually have a few friends who were there, and nothing specific about the suspect has come forth yet. considering the shooter IS STILL AT LARGE i cannot understand why the information as to specifics about the shooter is not being shared by the media? based on live witness reports - via cp24 and radio, i have only consistently heard the shooter had a hoodie and a cap, shooter was tall and apparently the shooter shot "indiscriminately" which is why the victims vary widely... just would like more sources as i am closely following this story.

[dudebro]

the 13 year old is in critical condition. wow.

[nickinto]

this is downright terrifying. i always frequent the eatons centre and never in my life have i felt worried for my safety. i cannot even begin to imagine the fear experienced amongst those in the mall. tragic situation.

for those specifying the suspects race, can i just ask where your sources are coming from? with direct links if possible. i have been following this since 630pm via cp24 and local radio - i actually have a few friends who were there, and nothing specific about the suspect has come forth yet. considering the shooter IS STILL AT LARGE i cannot understand why the information as to specifics about the shooter is not being shared by the media? based on live witness reports - via cp24 and radio, i have only consistently heard the shooter had a hoodie and a cap, shooter was tall and apparently the shooter shot "indiscriminately" which is why the victims vary widely... just would like more sources as i am closely following this story.

Here you go:

http://torontoist.com/2012/06/possible-shooting-at-eaton-centre/

UPDATE: June 2, 2012, 7:05 PM Scanner chatter indicates the suspect is male, black, 27 years old, muscular, and possibly wearing a black hat.

UPDATE: June 2, 2012, 7:10 PM Scanner description of a second suspect: Male, white, 30 to 40 years old, muscular build, short hair, wearing a black jacket and pants, and carrying a black handgun.

UPDATE: June 2, 2012, 8:11 PM Brian Tien Trinh, a Huffington Post intern who is tweeting from the scene, reports that “Yonge Street is slowly returning to normal.” Police tape is coming down, he writes, and traffic is moving on Yonge, past Dundas Street.

The scanner now says police are looking for five young men, all believed to be between 18 and 23 years old. Four of them are being described as black, and one is being described as white. The one police think might have been the shooter is said to have cornrows, and to be wearing a black zip-up hoodie with white lettering on it.

[VisitableElf]

25 year old guy who died.. wow

[mrjun18]

Toronto is extremely safe for a big city.

yes it is. its very safe.

[Tornado F2]

this is downright terrifying. i always frequent the eatons centre and never in my life have i felt worried for my safety. i cannot even begin to imagine the fear experienced amongst those in the mall. tragic situation.

for those specifying the suspects race, can i just ask where your sources are coming from? with direct links if possible. i have been following this since 630pm via cp24 and local radio - i actually have a few friends who were there, and nothing specific about the suspect has come forth yet. considering the shooter IS STILL AT LARGE i cannot understand why the information as to specifics about the shooter is not being shared by the media? based on live witness reports - via cp24 and radio, i have only consistently heard the shooter had a hoodie and a cap, shooter was tall and apparently the shooter shot "indiscriminately" which is why the victims vary widely... just would like more sources as i am closely following this story.

**************************

As for "indiscriminate" shooting, maybe he was just a lousy shot? Not sure if that was lucky or not though, considering that at least one person is dead. They really need to get rid of these guns somehow.

[45ED]

[...] They really need to get rid of these guns somehow.

Getting rid of guns won't get rid of the specific kind of people behind the gun. If said people are intent on causing harm, they'll find a way to cause harm.

Gun use in situations like this are symptoms of a problem, not the problem itself.

[dudebro]

25 year old guy who died.. wow

sad. at this point i just hope there are no more deaths.


Are you thinking the dude may be YOUR bro, dudebro?

As for "indiscriminate" shooting, maybe he was just a lousy shot? Not sure if that was lucky or not though, considering that at least one person is dead. They really need to get rid of these guns somehow.

what is that first comment even about? i pretty much explicitly stated why i wanted to know the source. thanks nick for the source by the way. if the shooter is still at large i believe it's important to share the information with the public. cp24 actually just mentioned the police are stilll gathering information and looking over tapes that is why the suspect profile is not being shared. i hope we will get more information about the supect(s) soon.

[Jimboski]

RIP, Hopefully the ones that are In the Hospital recover.

[STREET JUSTICE]

I was about 100 ft from the escalators when this all went down. About 10-15 kids ran by me as I was heading towards the food court and then I got called out at from a friend who was closing the door to his store and he asked me if I heard anything and then it was pretty distinct pops going off so I ended up running back to my store as quickly as possible and told my staff as discreetly as possible what was going on and then tried to evacuate the store. Strangely enough several customers didn't seem phased by this AT ALL and actually took their time to get out of the fitting rooms and had the nerve to walk up to the cash to pay for items. Seriously, just absurd. Shortly after about 10 cops ran up to my gate which was already closed and banged on it with shotguns and screamed to get out. It was pretty intense considering there was probably 50-75 people in the store who eventually flipped out and started screaming when what sounded like more pops going off. They finally got the hint.

[45ED]

Following this on Twitter all night. It's worth noting the the 8 victims are not all victims of the shooting, some suffered injuries in the chaos trying to get out (trampling, etc).

Only one:


Toronto Police Service
Eaton Centre Shooting Toronto Police Official Media Update: Constable Victor Kwong of Toronto Police Corporate Communications updated the media at 9pm Saturday June 2, 2012 on a shooting at the Eaton Centre. Toronto Police received a call at 6:23pm for a shooting. There are 8 confirmed victims. One of the victims has died, two have life threatening injuries, one is critical. Seven of the injured parties are suffering from gunshot wounds and one is injured from being trampled. Updates will occur on official Toronto Police Facebook and Twitter feeds which can be seen on the Toronto Police website social streams http://TorontoPolice.on.ca/ ^sm

9:20pm update by Cst Victor Kwong:
Victim #1: Male, 25yrs gunshot wound | deceased
Victim #2: Male, 20yrs gunshot wound | critical
Victim #3: Male, 13yrs gunshot wound | critical
Victim #4: Female, gunshot wound | serious
Victim #5: Male, gunshot wound | serious
Victim #6: Female, gunshot wound | serious
Victim #7: Female (pregnant) knocked to ground, minor injuries
Victim #8: Female, grazed by bullet

Anyone with information is asked to call Toronto Police Service Duty Desk 416-808-7100 | Anonymous information can be submitted to Toronto Crime Stoppers | Talk: 1-800-222-8477 | Type: http://222tips.com/ | Text TOR plus your message to 274637 — at Toronto Eaton Centre.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150859506866297&set=a.409531081296.181472.191543066296&type=1&theater

[VintagePhick]

This joke right your from Scarborough and your calling Toronto ghetto. :lol:

Scarborough is apart of Toronto though.

This is a sad story, my thoughts are with everyone involved in this mess.

ETA:Wow I only thought the person killed was shot not 6 other parties, I assumed they got trampled. This is really scary and sad. I hope all of those in serious and critical condition pull through and make a full recovery.

[Tornado F2]

Getting rid of guns won't get rid of the specific kind of people behind the gun. If said people are intent on causing harm, they'll find a way to cause harm.

Gun use in situations like this are symptoms of a problem, not the problem itself.

While that's true, other weapons, such as fists or knives, are a lot less likely to harm unintended bystanders. Bullets are far less discriminate and will harm anybody unfortunate enough to be in their path, as has happened today.

[dudebro]

*************************************
*************************************


I was about 100 ft from the escalators when this all went down. About 10-15 kids ran by me as I was heading towards the food court and then I got called out at from a friend who was closing the door to his store and he asked me if I heard anything and then it was pretty distinct pops going off so I ended up running back to my store as quickly as possible and told my staff as discreetly as possible what was going on and then tried to evacuate the store. Strangely enough several customers didn't seem phased by this AT ALL and actually took their time to get out of the fitting rooms and had the nerve to walk up to the cash to pay for items. Seriously, just absurd. Shortly after about 10 cops ran up to my gate which was already closed and banged on it with shotguns and screamed to get out. It was pretty intense considering there was probably 50-75 people in the store who eventually flipped out and started screaming when what sounded like more pops going off. They finally got the hint.

i can't even imagine! had friends who were locked down in stores, no one i know was close to the food court. glad you're okay.

[dudebro]

ETA:Wow I only thought the person killed was shot not 6 other parties, I assumed they got trampled. This is really scary and sad. I hope all of those in serious and critical condition pull through and make a full recovery.

Apparently 7/8 were shot, one woman who was pregnant got trampled and is now in labour.

[bromance]

My friend was there and said one of the people shot was right next to him :-0:-0

Glad my friend got out ok.

On a sidenote I couldn't help that 80+ ppl were viewing this thread. This is the hottest thread going on right now.

If I had a nickel for every person I heard today that claimed they were beside someone that was hit…

[longitude]

I hope the suspect is caught and deported.

[dudebro]

the chief of police just said based on the fatally shot victim's wounds, his shooting was targeted and all the other victims were innocent bystanders. the chief also mentioned that the suspects profile is being confirmed and will be released to the public as soon as the profile can be confirmed.

[yao416]

I hope the suspect is caught and deported.

+1

[dealstime]

CP24 ‏@CP24

BREAKING: Mayor Rob Ford is heading to the Eaton Centre shooting.

I wish politicians and media kept out till everything is under control. Just adds to more chaos and work for police

[dealstime]

I hope the suspect is caught and deported.

Deported? Reporting post...

[edgedamage]

More cameras in mall / transit need to be hidden at eye level. These useless shots of the top of peoples heads are annoying.

[Abel4Life]

Deported? Reporting post...

Ummmm ok.... This post makes no sense.

[ashs]

I hope the suspect is caught and deported.

Pretty sure the suspect is a Canadian.


In regards to gun control, if u ban guns then the only people that will have them are the criminals.

[nauru]

To the people wanting the perps 'deported':

How do you know they aren't Canadian citizens, born in Canada? A country can't just deport the citizens who commit crimes... can you imagine if the US deported all their murderers to Canada, I mean Americans don't want to have murderers around so they could just send them here, right?

[Tornado F2]

Deported? Reporting post...

He obviously meant to say "awarded citizenship", since the shooter will now be staying here a while.

[NG]

Big fail to OTA news.

Heard it mentioned on WNLO (WIVB) 10 pm news. Flipped to City assuming there'd be coverage but found Murdoch Mysteries, Tried CTV (Comedy Now!), CBC was on commercial (I assume hockey) and Global has some crappy (I assume Canadian) doc on some famous designer.

You'd think they'd break in (esp CBC, City and CTV who could pipe over their cable news channel) instead it's the Buffalo news that delivers.

[Drew87]

Man I feel so bad for these people - I wonder what the full story will be..............

[longitude]

I wish politicians and media kept out till everything is under control. Just adds to more chaos and work for police

It's very important that Rob Ford goes there to show support.

[Drew87]

It's very important that Rob Ford goes there to show support.

I agree - Ford and Blair both had press conferences - it's good to see them there....

[Tornado F2]

Pretty sure the suspect is a Canadian.


In regards to gun control, if u ban guns then the only people that will have them are the criminals.

"Canadian"? - Reported! :razz:

The only people who should have guns are the police. And if criminals could be prevented from getting them most police wouldn't need weapons either. Just look at the UK, or Newfoundland apparently, where regular police usually don't have guns, yet still manage to maintain order.

[originalnutta]

*Waiting patiently for the video.*

[STREET JUSTICE]

*************************************
*************************************

i can't even imagine! had friends who were locked down in stores, no one i know was close to the food court. glad you're okay.

Yeah thanks. Glad your friends made it out ok as well.

I was most concerned because generally all of my staff gets their "lunch" from the food court. Lucky for them it was near the end of the day and they had all taken their breaks already. Definitely a horrible situation though. I can't begin to understand the logic of shooting someone, let alone with several cameras pointing at you from any given direction.

[mrjun18]

It happened in the food court in urban eatery. We will see how the media reacts as reports have a black male being shot unlike the creba shooting
oh so you changed your post???

[longitude]

Did cops lock customers inside stores? Did I read thah right?

[_Allan_]

Big fail to OTA news.

Heard it mentioned on WNLO (WIVB) 10 pm news. Flipped to City assuming there'd be coverage but found Murdoch Mysteries, Tried CTV (Comedy Now!), CBC was on commercial (I assume hockey) and Global has some crappy (I assume Canadian) doc on some famous designer.

You'd think they'd break in (esp CBC, City and CTV who could pipe over their cable news channel) instead it's the Buffalo news that delivers.

Did you try ... CP24? Sun News Network? CBC News World? Omni News? Or just the 'main networks' that are busy showing other things.

EDIT: Live Audio of the TPS Scanner (http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?action=wp&feedId=10972)

[BuildBuyBreed]

*Sigh*

"I'm never going Eaton Centre again."
"Toronto is too dangerous."
"Ban guns!"
"I was just there yesterday, OMG it could've been me."
"I've lost faith in humanity."
"Zombie cannibal, gay porn dismemberment, Union station flooding, now Eaton Centre. What is going on?"

The world's always been like this and will continue to be so, welcome to reality unfortunately.

[ashs]

"Canadian"? - Reported! :razz:

The only people who should have guns are the police. And if criminals could be prevented from getting them most police wouldn't need weapons either. Just look at the UK, or Newfoundland apparently, where regular police usually don't have guns, yet still manage to maintain order.



When Katrina hit police were also looting and stealing. They are people too.

[Drew87]

Did cops lock customers inside stores? Did I read thah right?

Some customers were kept in the back of stores on in the basements of stores until the police were sure it was safe...It was reported on all the news channels before.

[ashs]

*Sigh*

"I'm never going Eaton Centre again."
"Toronto is too dangerous."
"Ban guns!"
"I was just there yesterday, OMG it could've been me."
"I've lost faith in humanity."
"Zombie cannibal, gay porn dismemberment, Union station flooding, now Eaton Centre. What is going on?"

The world's always been like this and will continue to be so, welcome to reality unfortunately.

I'm glad I live out in the country away from people.

[45ED]

*Sigh*

"I'm never going Eaton Centre again."
"Toronto is too dangerous."
"Ban guns!"
"I was just there yesterday, OMG it could've been me."
"I've lost faith in humanity."
"Zombie cannibal, gay porn dismemberment, Union station flooding, now Eaton Centre. What is going on?"

The world's always been like this and will continue to be so, welcome to reality unfortunately.

Shootings and the like have been around, agreed. Only difference, such people don't realize, is we've have wider, more immediate coverage supported by better tech.

[dragon_drift]

fingers crossed the victims are okay.

[Tornado F2]

When Katrina hit police were also looting and stealing. They are people too.

Seriously? Do you have a link?

I did hear reports of some police abuse (and incompetence) at the time, but not theft.

[longitude]

Some customers were kept in the back of stores on in the basements of stores until the police were sure it was safe...It was reported on all the news channels before.

Without wanting to hijack this thread, can cops lock people like that? Am I allowed to leave if I ask?

[yao416]

Without wanting to hijack this thread, can cops lock people like that? Am I allowed to leave if I ask?

Yes you can. Press kidnap charges if they don't let you out

[Tornado F2]

I'm glad I live out in the country away from people.

That won't save you.

http://xzzzx.bravehost.com/myPictures/cows-with-guns-119[1].gif

:D

[ashs]

Seriously? Do you have a link?

I did hear reports of some police abuse (and incompetence) at the time, but not theft.

American news coverage was talking to a cop who was looting live on tv.

[ashs]

Without wanting to hijack this thread, can cops lock people like that? Am I allowed to leave if I ask?

It's like a lockdown in school

[jaxx lite]

Without wanting to hijack this thread, can cops lock people like that? Am I allowed to leave if I ask?

Why not yell, scream and lunge at them if they say "no"?

:idea::idea::idea:

[Drew87]

Without wanting to hijack this thread, can cops lock people like that? Am I allowed to leave if I ask?

I doubt legally they can keep people locked up if they ask to leave but in the situation I doubt the people would want to leave. You would probably think it's safe to hide in the back of a store then running through the mall especially when the shots first go off.... In the two stories I heard

in 1 case:

They took the employees to the stock room/basement and kept them inside and when an employee saw a cop he told them to get out....

in the other case....

The guy took all the customers to the basement of the store - locked the store up and then escorted them from the basement to an emergency exit where they ran.....

[Tornado F2]

Without wanting to hijack this thread, can cops lock people like that? Am I allowed to leave if I ask?

It seems to be SOP in the case of school shootings, keeping kids at the back of classrooms until police can safely evacuate them. I assume they could use similar procedure in shopping malls. People may be allowed to leave, perhaps, but with a clear warning that they may be putting themselves in harm's way, since the shooter/s was still at large.

[peanutz]

Wow...

My mom sometimes goes there in the evening to get her baby birds (me and my brother) some Medina. I'm so glad she went there Thursday night and not today. Feel for the victims.

[ashs]

Seriously? Do you have a link?

I did hear reports of some police abuse (and incompetence) at the time, but not theft.

I just youtubed Katrina cop looting and there was a lot of videos, some are hilarious. That said I don't think police should be th only ones with guns, not all of them have strong moral fibre.

[Tornado F2]

American news coverage was talking to a cop who was looting live on tv.

Wow. Unless he was securing emergency supplies from a store, such as first aid gear and medication, (which I could understand in that situation), then that was really dumb.

[45ED]

It seems to be SOP in the case of school shootings, keeping kids at the back of classrooms until police can safely evacuate them. I assume they could use similar procedure in shopping malls. People may be allowed to leave, perhaps, but with a clear warning that they may be putting themselves in harm's way, since the shooter/s was still at large.

Fwiw

http://www.tdsb.on.ca/about_us/media_room/room.asp?show=allNews&view=detailed&self=20508

[transitguy1]

Very sad, hope the shooter gets caught and dealt with harshly and sits in prison forever

Bring back the death penalty for these kinds of murderers

[jaysfan4life]

I bet people grabbed the first thing they saw and ran like the wind..

[Drew87]

Very sad, hope the shooter gets caught and dealt with harshly and sits in prison forever

Bring back the death penalty for these kinds of murderers


People always say that when a shooting or crime happens...it's become very cliche imo....

But I agree this guy does deserve swift hard in your face type of justice......Watch - when they do catch this guy he'll probably claim insanity.....Nah, who knows...To shoot someone in a place as busy and public as the Eaton centre you can't imagine what must have went through his head then or is going through his head now....It's insane.

[Tornado F2]

I just youtubed Katrina cop looting and there was a lot of videos, some are hilarious. That said I don't think police should be th only ones with guns, not all of them have strong moral fibre.

As I said, ideally nobody (outside the military, and even then under strict control) should have ready access to weapons. Sadly we seem to be on a downward slope. Now even mall rent-a-cops wear body armour, and possibly even carry some sort of weaponry. (Though admittedly I've not taken a close look beyond noticing the vest).

[qaz393]

i dont want to live on this planet anymore.

[Kunman]

I'm glad I live out in the country away from people.

in the country? hahaha.... good luck

[ashs]

That won't save you.

http://xzzzx.bravehost.com/myPictures/cows-with-guns-119[1].gif

:D

Lol, weirdly enough when city folk come out the country they usually are afraid of it, like afraid of Forrest's or the dark night

[yao416]

Is Eatons closed now?

[45ED]

Is Eatons closed now?

And you're asking why?

[ashs]

i dont want to live on this planet anymore.

A little harsh

[yao416]

And you're asking why?

And you're asking why?

[trixstar]

i don't like living in this universe

[nasa25]

Is Eatons closed now?

I asked my cumpare - he said no.

[Drew87]

Is Eatons closed now?

I think they said it's closed indefinitely until the police say it's ok to open

NEWSTALK1010 ‏@newstalk1010

#Toronto #EatonCentre will be closed until further notice while police investigate food court shooting.

[yao416]

I think they said it's closed indefinitely until the police say it's ok to open

NEWSTALK1010 ‏@newstalk1010

#Toronto #EatonCentre will be closed until further notice while police investigate food court shooting.

Thanks for the update :)

I guess it won't be opened tomorrow then

[yao416]

I asked my cumpare - he said no.

Thank your cumpare for me will ya :)

[Drew87]

Thanks for the update :)

I guess it won't be opened tomorrow then

I'd be really surprised if it opened tomorrow but you never know....You have to think, the people that work at the food court or inside the mall or probably all in a state of shock - would they be able to handle going back to work right away?

You never know - I could be really off....

[BuildBuyBreed]

Shootings and the like have been around, agreed. Only difference, such people don't realize, is we've have wider, more immediate coverage supported by better tech.

Exactly. Things seem worse nowadays because more information is communicated faster and farther than ever before.

Back in the day, before the Internet and Twitter, news reached the masses a few hours later via radio, later in the day on TV, and the next day in newspapers, and because old media was much more limited in scope, a lot of news went unreported.

I'm surprised I haven't seen one comment anywhere making reference to a shooting that was foiled by a bystander who threw table chairs at the shooter down in the States.

[Corleone187]

Did they catch the moron?

I have a place on collage and yonge just minutes away, luckily I haven't been there in about a month.

[Tornado F2]

Lol, weirdly enough when city folk come out the country they usually are afraid of it, like afraid of Forrest's or the dark night

LOL, I live in a city, albeit a relatively small one, and when friends from TO visit they can't get over all the surrounding countryside. :D I used to live in downtown TO though, so I'm comfortable pretty much anywhere. - So long as nobody's shooting.

[Drew87]

Did they catch the moron?

I have a place on collage and yonge just minutes away, luckily I haven't been there in about a month.

Nope - still at large - as I said before - a lot of ways to get away and escape....Unfortunately for him he's a dumbass and didn't consider there's a lot of cameras in the area and that it's only a matter of time before there on to him.

[nickinto]

Interesting...we know that the deceased was DOA and remained in the mall, and the word so far is that all the other victims are innocent bystanders.

Look at this picture of one of the other victims that was rushed to the hospital:

*****

Look at the tattoo on his arm.... Looks to me like he might have some gang connections as well, and friends with the deceased.

[Jalmir]

When I saw that I thought "holy sh**!!! I was there today!!!"

Then I realized it was the one in Toronto, not Montreal!

[qaz393]

Interesting...we know that the deceased was DOA and remained in the mall, and the word so far is that all the other victims are innocent bystanders.

Look at this picture of one of the other victims that was rushed to the hospital:

*****

Look at the tattoo on his arm.... Looks to me like he might have some gang connections as well, and friends with the deceased.

omg i see three holes......

[nickinto]

Interesting...we know that the deceased was DOA and remained in the mall, and the word so far is that all the other victims are innocent bystanders.

Look at this picture of one of the other victims that was rushed to the hospital:

*****

Look at the tattoo on his arm.... Looks to me like he might have some gang connections as well, and friends with the deceased.

LOL @ the mod who deleted a picture I posted... source of the picture: thestar.com

[jaysfan4life]

Just because someone has a RIP tattoo that doesn't automatically mean they are gang affiliated.

[NG]

Did you try ... CP24? Sun News Network? CBC News World? Omni News? Or just the 'main networks' that are busy showing other things.

EDIT: Live Audio of the TPS Scanner (http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?action=wp&feedId=10972)

Jesus ****ing christ man. Did you read the post. I was referencing Canadian OTA news failure and I made that clear in my post. Of course I didn't try cable news channels like CP24, Sun News, CBC News and if City didn't have coverage before 11 pm neither would Omni (prove me wrong) since they're the same owners as City.


Big fail to OTA news.

Heard it mentioned on WNLO (WIVB) 10 pm news. Flipped to City assuming there'd be coverage but found Murdoch Mysteries, Tried CTV (Comedy Now!), CBC was on commercial (I assume hockey) and Global has some crappy (I assume Canadian) doc on some famous designer.

You'd think they'd break in (esp CBC, City and CTV who could pipe over their cable news channel) instead it's the Buffalo news that delivers.

[Drew87]

omg i see three holes......

Are you going to be sick? On tv you could see a lot more....

[nickinto]

Just because someone has a RIP tattoo that doesn't automatically mean they are gang affiliated.

Look at RIP and look at the tattoo... where there is smoke...

The guy was obviously right beside the main target to get hit by so many bullets.... same entourage.

[deal_with_singh]

Very sad, hope the shooter gets caught and dealt with harshly and sits in prison forever

Bring back the death penalty for these kinds of murderers

The most this guy can get is 25 years in prison, which is nothing considering he's only in his 20's. This is for First Degree murder...

My guess...he'll probably get away with second degree murder which in Canada is only 10-25 years.

[Drew87]

Jesus ****ing christ man. Did you read the post. I was referencing Canadian OTA news failure and I made that clear in my post. Of course I didn't try cable news channels like CP24, Sun News, CBC News and if City didn't have coverage before 11 pm neither would Omni (prove me wrong) since they're the same owners as City.

Cp24, ctv, citytv were covering the shooting from the time it happened until at least 8

[NG]

Interesting...we know that the deceased was DOA and remained in the mall, and the word so far is that all the other victims are innocent bystanders.

Look at this picture of one of the other victims that was rushed to the hospital:

*****

Look at the tattoo on his arm.... Looks to me like he might have some gang connections as well, and friends with the deceased.

Last edited by AcidBomber; Jun 2nd, 2012 at 10:06 PM. Reason: Removed graphic image. - AcidBomber


This is different than the body part mailing guy video - seeing the tattoo may actually be an indicator of gang activity.

[DearSummer]

The most this guy can get is 25 years in prison, which is nothing considering he's only in his 20's. This is for First Degree murder...

My guess...he'll probably get away with second degree murder which in Canada is only 10-25 years.

This is completely wrong. He is going to be facing multiple counts of several crimes.

[45ED]

Cp24, ctv, citytv were covering the shooting from the time it happened until at least 8

I can testify to this -- was watching vids fresh from CTV and a live feed from City.

[ddp]

Look at RIP and look at the tattoo... where there is smoke...

The guy was obviously right beside the main target to get hit by so many bullets.... same entourage.

My gf just told me Jennifer aniston has a RIP. tattoo too. Todat tats mean nothing, better to wait for proper info than jumping to conclusions.

[Tornado F2]

Interesting...we know that the deceased was DOA and remained in the mall, and the word so far is that all the other victims are innocent bystanders.

Look at this picture of one of the other victims that was rushed to the hospital:

*****

Look at the tattoo on his arm.... Looks to me like he might have some gang connections as well, and friends with the deceased.


omg i see three holes......

I see five asterisks. And that's enough.

[NG]

Cp24, ctv, citytv were covering the shooting from the time it happened until at least 8

CTV and City TV OTA? I first heard about it at 10 pm so if I was late in the game I'll stand corrected.

[45ED]

The most this guy can get is 25 years in prison, which is nothing considering he's only in his 20's. This is for First Degree murder...

My guess...he'll probably get away with second degree murder which in Canada is only 10-25 years.

If the report about the alleged connection between the shooter and deceased victim is true - that the victim was targeted - I don't think LE and the like will aim for just murder in the second degree.

[Tornado F2]

My gf just told me Jennifer aniston has a RIP. tattoo too. Todat tats mean nothing, better to wait for proper info than jumping to conclusions.

Tats, like tweets, are for twits. :D

[gotrice]

Lmao there were two construction workers working in the harry Rosen. And they had no idea what was going on. They left at like 9:30 and had no idea until they got outside and saw all the cops and cameras. That's hilarious 3 hours have gone by until they knew what kind of pandemonium was going on....

[NG]

nickinto - looks like your entire post was nuked despite it being a link to a Toronto Star picture.

Before I do it mods would it be within the forum rules to link to the Toronto Star article that has the same picture?

[ddp]

CTV and City TV OTA? I first heard about it at 10 pm so if I was late in the game I'll stand corrected.

None of the main networks stopped airing whatever they were showing. CBC had an update which I saw. But all stations own 24 news networks for a reason, so ppl go there. THis isn't 10 years ago, don't expect things OTA.

[Tornado F2]

CTV and City TV OTA? I first heard about it at 10 pm so if I was late in the game I'll stand corrected.

I first saw it on City around 8:20ish when I got home and turned on my TV.

[nickinto]

Lmao there were two construction workers working in the harry Rosen. And they had no idea what was going on. They left at like 9:30 and had no idea until they got outside and saw all the cops and cameras. That's hilarious 3 hours have gone by until they knew what kind of pandemonium was going on....

If that story is true, the ETF and the Gun & Gang Task Force that were supposed to have swept the entire mall for the gunman failed LOL

[jaysfan4life]

Most young people that lose someone close to them get a RIP tattoo... It's trendy...my niece died last month and my nephew got a tattoo for her. Don't make assumptions.

[yao416]

Lmao there were two construction workers working in the harry Rosen. And they had no idea what was going on. They left at like 9:30 and had no idea until they got outside and saw all the cops and cameras. That's hilarious 3 hours have gone by until they knew what kind of pandemonium was going on....


Say word. Haha

[sweeper]

Pretty chilling.

I was at the Boston Red Sox game at the SkyDome and was thinking of going to the Eaton's Centre to get a bite to eat.

[deal_with_singh]

LOL, I live in a city, albeit a relatively small one, and when friends from TO visit they can't get over all the surrounding countryside. :D I used to live in downtown TO though, so I'm comfortable pretty much anywhere. - So long as nobody's shooting.

LOL Welland can't be considered a city, its barely a suburb!

[hiredmuscle]

I was there with my wife today and we had just paid for our food at Jimmy the Greek when the shots popped off about 15-20 meters behind us. We both just dove and managed to run through a service corridor by that booth and out the service garage. It was pretty intense with people around us crying and screaming while scared not knowing if the shooters were behind us or maybe in front of us as we ran through unmarked concrete corridors.

I wish I could've gotten a look at the shooters to help ID them, but just hearing bullets really does put you into flight or flight mode to run away. It's nothing like playing Call of Duty at all.

[nickinto]

Luka Rocco Magnotta must be so pissed about the shooting - Poor Luka spent weeks planning a crime he thought would place him on the front page of all papers..and he's now been displaced from the headlines by a guy who was able to do in under a minute.. What a failure Magnotta is.

[Manatus]

I'm surprised I haven't seen one comment anywhere making reference to a shooting that was foiled by a bystander who threw table chairs at the shooter down in the States.

Brett Lawrie was in the area, he would have knocked the shooter out except he didn't have his helmet with him.

Really though from what we know of this case, it's probably good that people didn't intervene. As far as we know the shooter had one target. If someone else tried to attack him and he ended up shooting them too, it could have become much worse for everyone around.

[Tornado F2]

nickinto - looks like your entire post was nuked despite it being a link to a Toronto Star picture.

Before I do it mods would it be within the forum rules to link to the Toronto Star article that has the same picture?

I believe links are usually okay, so long as the linked item isn't too distasteful, since it requires a deliberate step to access it. But who knows these days?

[motto1997]

Luka Rocco Magnotta must be so pissed about the shooting - Poor Luka spent weeks planning a crime he thought would place him on the front page of all papers..and he's now been displaced from the headlines by a guy who was able to do in under a minute.. What a failure Magnotta is.

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/Smiley11-1.gif

[yao416]

Luka Rocco Magnotta must be so pissed about the shooting - Poor Luka spent weeks planning a crime he thought would place him on the front page of all papers..and he's now been displaced from the headlines by a guy who was able to do in under a minute.. What a failure Magnotta is.

Well said

[nauru]

Most young people that lose someone close to them get a RIP tattoo...

Do you really believe this?

[NG]

Luka Rocco Magnotta must be so pissed about the shooting - Poor Luka spent weeks planning a crime he thought would place him on the front page of all papers..and he's now been displaced from the headlines by a guy who was able to do in under a minute.. What a failure Magnotta is.

It appears Luka's biggest mistake was not mailing out more body parts to keep the momentum in the news.

Apparently all the police found was a torso so I guess he ate most of it instead of mailing the rest.

[NG]

I believe links are usually okay, so long as the linked item isn't too distasteful, since it requires a deliberate step to access it. But who knows these days?

The post that was deleted was a direct link to a photo on the Toronto Star site so I'm not sure what's up/allowed right now.

gonna air on the side of caution and just say that www.thestar.com has the photo of the victim and his tattoo.

[Simaahoy]

Luka Rocco Magnotta must be so pissed about the shooting - Poor Luka spent weeks planning a crime he thought would place him on the front page of all papers..and he's now been displaced from the headlines by a guy who was able to do in under a minute.. What a failure Magnotta is.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing004.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php):cry:

[jaysfan4life]

Do you really believe this?

http://www.millerparkdrunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Brett-Lawrie-2.jpg

Just follow the link

[yao416]

Gotta keep it PG13 :D

[Drew87]

Do you really believe this?

It's kinda true - I work in retail and a lot of the younger people tend to get an RIP tattoo now a days when someone they know passed away -

[ddp]

It's kinda true - I work in retail and a lot of the younger people tend to get an RIP tattoo now a days when someone they know passed away -

I know two people with them, upper middle class oakville raised- furthest thing from a gangster. Tattoos in general are just common place for ppl under 30.

[Tornado F2]

LOL Welland can't be considered a city, its barely a suburb!

You'd be surprised by what passes for a city here in Canada. I think the main requirement is the presence of at least 2 Timmies or McD's. :lol:

I'm actually in St Kitts. But in Welland's defence, it does have a world-famous ship canal (2 channels actually), road and rail tunnels, numerous bridges, a decent-sized hospital, a county court house, shopping centres, numerous schools, a college campus, outdoor murals, indoor and outdoor cinemas, an airport, etc, and it used to be a major manufacturing centre, especially steel and chemicals. Not too minor at all really.

Though I suppose back home any place with a population below 1 million was considered a village, regardless of how many Timmies it had? :D

[Tornado F2]

I know two people with them, upper middle class oakville raised- furthest thing from a gangster. Tattoos in general are just common place for ppl under 30.

Which is why they're so dumb. Everybody by that age has lost somebody close, even if it's just their gran, so everybody's going to have generic RIP tats. So much for individuality.

Besides, even Bieber has tats now, so there goes any pretence of them being cool. :lol:

Tats belong on military, bikers, and cons - so their bodies can be IDed in the event of death. Drugged up rockers for the same reason. For anybody else it's just a case of lemmings following the crowd.

[sweeper]

You'd be surprised by what passes for a city here in Canada. I think the main requirement is the presence of at least 2 Timmies or McD's. :lol:

I'm actually in St Kitts. But in Welland's defence, it does have a world-famous ship canal (2 channels actually), road and rail tunnels, numerous bridges, a decent-sized hospital, a county court house, shopping centres, numerous schools, a college campus, outdoor murals, indoor and outdoor cinemas, an airport, etc, and it used to be a major manufacturing centre, especially steel and chemicals. Not too minor at all really.

Though I suppose back home any place with a population below 1 million was considered a village, regardless of how many Timmies it had? :D

http://i.imgur.com/UzTta.gif

[yao416]

Do you really believe this?

yup, my friend in HS got one after his boy passed away at his place. :cry:

[Ironsmack]

Which is why they're so dumb. Everybody by that age has lost somebody close, even if it's just their gran, so everybody's going to have generic RIP tats. So much for individuality.

Besides, even Bieber has tats now, so there goes any pretence of them being cool. :lol:

Tats belong on military, bikers, and cons - so their bodies can be IDed in the event of death. Drugged up rockers for the same reason. For anybody else it's just a case of lemmings following the crowd.


Just because its dumb to you doesnt mean its also dumb for other people. Some do tats because it has a personal meaning to them. Some think its artwork. Some choose to just because.

[Tornado F2]

It appears Luka's biggest mistake was not mailing out more body parts to keep the momentum in the news.

Apparently all the police found was a torso so I guess he ate most of it instead of mailing the rest.

I'm going to :facepalm: myself for this one:

He mailed the rest to Rob Ford.

(That's why the mayor stopped his weigh-ins). :facepalm:

;)

[izzyzz]

i dont want to live on this planet anymore.

Planet?? This whole f*****g galaxy blows! Andromeda can't get here fast enough!

[Tornado F2]

Just because its dumb to you doesnt mean its also dumb for other people. Some do tats because it has a personal meaning to them. Some think its artwork. Some choose to just because.

I understand individuals getting tats - to be individual. But nowadays they're more commonplace than baseball caps. And usually not very interesting.

[Tornado F2]

Planet?? This whole f*****g galaxy blows! Andromeda can't get here fast enough!

Didn't you hear, the galaxy's expanding. Andromeda's getting further away. :lol:

[kaydees]

So was this just a random attack..? o_o

[Tornado F2]

http://i.imgur.com/UzTta.gif

That reminds me. Lots of attractive gals there too. :)

[yao416]

So was this just a random attack..? o_o

targeted

[izzyzz]

Didn't you hear, the galaxy's expanding. Andromeda's getting further away. :lol:

Didn't you get the memo? :)

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-05/video-simulated-look-milky-way-and-andromeda-galaxy-colliding

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/milkywaycrash.jpg

[Tornado F2]

So was this just a random attack..? o_o

My guess is that at least one of the victims (the one who's now deceased) was intentional, possibly tracked down over some grudge. Most were just accidental collateral victims though due to inaccurate shooting.

[Tornado F2]

Didn't you get the memo? :)

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-05/video-simulated-look-milky-way-and-andromeda-galaxy-colliding

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/milkywaycrash.jpg

Shoot, we have only four billion years left? :-0

Still, it should be pretty. Worth sticking around for. :lol:

[_Allan_]

Jesus ****ing christ man. Did you read the post. I was referencing Canadian OTA news failure and I made that clear in my post. Of course I didn't try cable news channels like CP24, Sun News, CBC News and if City didn't have coverage before 11 pm neither would Omni (prove me wrong) since they're the same owners as City.
Dude ... drop your attitude. You act like you were the shooter, and were hoping to see yourself on OTA news... btw, insulting someones religion (your first three words are an epitaph) is disgusting. Grow up and stop being disrespectful.


Tats, like tweets, are for twits. :D
Amen!

[MPaia]

Why do innocent bystanders always have to be the ones getting hurt when thugs like these have a bone to pick? As bad as it sounds, I hope someone finds this hoodlum and kills him. Our justice system just isn't harsh enough to deal with matters like this. Shoot a 13 year old? Go eff yourself, ahole.

[WildWolf]

Full Moon.

[diggler649]

The shooter deserves to get his face eaten.

[coolspot]

We need tougher laws and punishment; I say an eye for an eye.

Body Part killer should suffer a slow dismemberment when he's caught.

The shooters should each get 12-15 (or however many) random shots fired at them, if they live, congrats, if not :D

[Metagame]

Really sad to hear about this, but I'm going to have to mention the fact right now: If this happened in the Mall of America, that POS would have been shot dead by the many people who are licensed to carry concealed firearms and the casualties may not have been as bad as they were right now. Now this will only fuel more anti gun-control movements, and rightfully so.

[Metagame]

We need tougher laws and punishment; I say an eye for an eye.

Body Part killer should suffer a slow dismemberment when he's caught.

The shooters should each get 12-15 (or however many) random shots fired at them, if they live, congrats, if not :D

No, that would fall under "cruel and unusual punishment" and we as civilized nation should not descend to such barbaric forms of justice. A good bullet to the head in the old fashioned way would be more than sufficient.

[Canada_7]

Freaking disgusted by this act. Shooter is a freaking moron for opening fire in public like this. With the number of security cameras, in such a public place I think they'll be able to get enough details to get a clear pic of suspect right? Get this (or these, depending on the numbers) person/people caught for such stupidity.

[Jimboski]

Interesting...we know that the deceased was DOA and remained in the mall, and the word so far is that all the other victims are innocent bystanders.

Look at this picture of one of the other victims that was rushed to the hospital:

*****

Look at the tattoo on his arm.... Looks to me like he might have some gang connections as well, and friends with the deceased.

He wasn't targeted though.. So I don't get why.. Unless he was buddies with the targeted one?

[NG]

Dude ... drop your attitude. You act like you were the shooter, and were hoping to see yourself on OTA news... btw, insulting someones religion (your first three words are an epitaph) is disgusting. Grow up and stop being disrespectful.


Amen!

1) The reason Canadian networks say they exist instead of us getting real TV stations like NBC, CBS, Fox etc is because they say they offer local/Canadian coverage. For something like this it's the prime example of what they should be breaking into regular programming to cover.

2) The term jesus chirst doesn't exist to insult someone's religion - it's a common term to express bafflement etc.


Really sad to hear about this, but I'm going to have to mention the fact right now: If this happened in the Mall of America, that POS would have been shot dead by the many people who are licensed to carry concealed firearms and the casualties may not have been as bad as they were right now. Now this will only fuel more anti gun-control movements, and rightfully so.

Pro gun control/anti-gun control

Pro death penalty/anti-death penalty


I certainly have my position on both those issues but I suspect than, whatever your position is, it wouldn't be within the new Off Topic rules against political discussion.

[kindred_99]

There's a good chance that it was targeted considering they put nearby St. Michael's hospital under lock down, possibly fearing that the shooter might show up there to finish the job. There is much talk about security footage, etc but I wonder what quality it is and how current their cameras are. You often see security footage at banks and wonder how old their technology is. I do know that such large malls have pretty much every inch of the common area of the mall (not inside every store obviously) on camera so there should be at least some footage of the shooting but depending on the scene and how it went down who knows what they have. It goes without saying but anyone who does something like this is an animal. To open fire among hundreds of people, including many children with complete disregard is incomprehensible and while I'm not an eye-for-an-eye capital punishment supporter there are cases like these that can make anyone rethink their position. I'm surprised that they haven't released any info yet on the shooter, unless they have already identified him and are looking for him without wanting to tip him off that they know who he is.

[Jimboski]

There's a good chance that it was targeted considering they put nearby St. Michael's hospital under lock down, possibly fearing that the shooter might show up there to finish the job. There is much talk about security footage, etc but I wonder what quality it is and how current their cameras are. You often see security footage at banks and wonder how old their technology is. I do know that such large malls have pretty much every inch of the common area of the mall (not inside every store obviously) on camera so there should be at least some footage of the shooting but depending on the scene and how it went down who knows what they have. It goes without saying but anyone who does something like this is an animal. To open fire among hundreds of people, including many children with complete disregard is incomprehensible and while I'm not an eye-for-an-eye capital punishment supporter there are cases like these that can make anyone rethink their position. I'm surprised that they haven't released any info yet on the shooter, unless they have already identified him and are looking for him without wanting to tip him off that they know who he is.

Wasn't the one targeted announced DOA when police/paramedics came? Were there more then one that was targeted?

[kindred_99]

From what I saw on the news they didn't confirm much more than one announced dead at the scene, 2 in critical condition including a 13 year old boy and 5 others shot for a total of 8 shot in addition to others injured due to trampling etc. They did interview one of the 8 who was released from hospital after being treated for a bullet grazing his thigh. He might have been told by police not to say much or he might have been in shock but he didn't seem like someone who had just been shot, even if it was just a graze. I'm sure there will be more revelaed in time. It was annoying when watching the police officer on the news, there was one reporter that asked a few times really loudly "WHERE IS THE SHOOTER?" as if the cop was going to point and say over there. I guess anyone with a decent haircut can be a reporter.

[_Allan_]

There's a good chance that it was targeted considering they put nearby St. Michael's hospital under lock down, possibly fearing that the shooter might show up there to finish the job. There is much talk about security footage, etc but I wonder what quality it is and how current their cameras are. You often see security footage at banks and wonder how old their technology is. I do know that such large malls have pretty much every inch of the common area of the mall (not inside every store obviously) on camera so there should be at least some footage of the shooting but depending on the scene and how it went down who knows what they have. It goes without saying but anyone who does something like this is an animal. To open fire among hundreds of people, including many children with complete disregard is incomprehensible and while I'm not an eye-for-an-eye capital punishment supporter there are cases like these that can make anyone rethink their position. I'm surprised that they haven't released any info yet on the shooter, unless they have already identified him and are looking for him without wanting to tip him off that they know who he is.
The Mall owner, being I think Fairview or Oxford, has higher end equipment, with pan/tilt/zoom features. As soon as security was alerted, the senior guard would take over camera control, and got as much high quality video as possible. Also, the zoom feature works AFTER video is shot, but not as good as real time. This of course is if they spent a bit of money on their cameras. I remember watching a series about Mall of America security having impeccable clarity.

[kindred_99]

I spent some time a while back in Square One's camera center but this was pre-HD. The whole mall was visible and there weren't any blind spots. I remember the video being decent enough even then but by today's standards there's no comparison. That's why I wondered how current the equipment is. I'm always shocked at how bad the video quality from banks are, you would think if anyone would be able to afford decent cameras it would be them.

[Kunman]

We need tougher laws and punishment; I say an eye for an eye.

Body Part killer should suffer a slow dismemberment when he's caught.

The shooters should each get 12-15 (or however many) random shots fired at them, if they live, congrats, if not :D

BLAH BLAH BALH DREAM ON....we need a filter for these comments

[pete_rfd]

Have they even caught the guy yet? Last I heard he was still out there...

[TheRed]

We need tougher laws and punishment; I say an eye for an eye.

Body Part killer should suffer a slow dismemberment when he's caught.

The shooters should each get 12-15 (or however many) random shots fired at them, if they live, congrats, if not :D

So by your logic, a serial sex offender should get all the sex he want as punishment? Lmao

[mysticalinfluence]

Scarborough is apart of Toronto though.

This is a sad story, my thoughts are with everyone involved in this mess.

ETA:Wow I only thought the person killed was shot not 6 other parties, I assumed they got trampled. This is really scary and sad. I hope all of those in serious and critical condition pull through and make a full recovery.

Scarborough is part the GTA and it's not Toronto that's like calling Markham Toronto.

[sandikosh]

Really sad to hear about this, but I'm going to have to mention the fact right now: If this happened in the Mall of America, that POS would have been shot dead by the many people who are licensed to carry concealed firearms and the casualties may not have been as bad as they were right now. Now this will only fuel more anti gun-control movements, and rightfully so.

BS! Look at all those shootings in the states. How many people pulled out their guns to shoot the shooter? None! If they did, they all will be in court defending themselves from the shooter!

[sprung]

FYI - according to this news report (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2012/06/02/19830166.html) the Eaton Centre will remain closed today, Sunday June 3

confirmed on Eaton Centre Twitter feed (http://twitter.com/#!/toeatoncentre)

Toronto Eaton Centre‏@toeatoncentre

"We will be closed today, Sun June 3rd, due to the ongoing police investigation into last night’s shooting."

and from their Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/torontoeatoncentre)

"Due to the ongoing Toronto Police Services investigation into the shooting Saturday evening, Toronto Eaton Centre will be closed on Sunday, June 3, including all parking garages. Please note that the adjacent office towers will be accessible through the exterior entrances only. Please visit our website for updates. "

[Canuck32]

Really sad to hear about this, but I'm going to have to mention the fact right now: If this happened in the Mall of America, that POS would have been shot dead by the many people who are licensed to carry concealed firearms and the casualties may not have been as bad as they were right now. Now this will only fuel more anti gun-control movements, and rightfully so.

And all of these experienced marksmen would have shot at the shooter without a single bullet hitting an innocent civilian? Give me a break.

[sprung]

And all of these experienced marksmen would have shot at the shooter without a single bullet hitting an innocent civilian? Give me a break.

+1 . Back in 2009 ABC news did a great special called 'If I Only Had A Gun' showing how folks usually mess up during a real, stressful gun situation. Even with lots of training. You can watch some of it here (http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=7312540). Bottom line, leave the firearms to the professionals.

BTW - if you have Netflix check out the mall shooting episode of Surviving Disaster for some better tips on what to do. Or watch it here (http://www.spike.com/full-episodes/3w9eyj/surviving-disaster-mall-shooting-season-1-ep-107) on Spike's site.

[ddp]

Scarborough is part the GTA and it's not Toronto that's like calling Markham Toronto.

No Scarborough is part of Toronto same way etobicoke, north York are. Markham is a suburb.

[diggler649]

This douche will be caught. If you think back to all the high profile shootings that have occurred over the years in Toronto (Jane Creba, Gigi Lemonis, the bank teller at TD), the cops always got their guy.

Guaranteed there are a number of people who knows who did the shooter is. Even in the criminal underworld, there comes a line as to how heinous a crime is. Someone will be utterly disgusted about this shooting and will say something. Cops will be tipped off. This guy will get arrested.

[edgedamage]

This douche will be caught. If you think back to all the high profile shootings that have occurred over the years in Toronto (Jane Creba, Gigi Lemonis, the bank teller at TD), the cops always got their guy.

Guaranteed there are a number of people who knows who did the shooter is. Even in the criminal underworld, there comes a line as to how heinous a crime is. Someone will be utterly disgusted about this shooting and will say something. Cops will be tipped off. This guy will get arrested.

Sadly too many cockbags follow that "stop snitching" crap.

[45ED]

http://www.roflzoo.com/pics/042010/serious-cat-is-not-amused-big.jpg

It'd be nice if you could troll better* because that just bad trolling...


Scarborough is part the GTA and it's not Toronto that's like calling Markham Toronto.
*or just not troll at all - even better

[mrjun18]

Scarborough is part the GTA and it's not Toronto that's like calling Markham Toronto.

Huh???

Scarborough is one of the 6 boroughs in the city of Toronto. Just like how Brooklyn is apart of New York City. If your postal code starts with an "M", then you're living in the city of Toronto. The TORONTO Transit Commission operates in Scarborough just like it does in North York or Old Toronto (the south portion of the city which includes downtown), meaning Scarborough is apart of Toronto. MARKHAM is apart of York region, and is a suburb of Toronto just like Ajax, Brampton etc. Suburbas of Toronto have a postal code beginning with the letter "L".

Hilarious how people think "Scarborough is apart of the GTA" LOL.

[1dvdswapper]

We are not tough enough on crime in Canada. The most this guy will get is 10-15 years MAX, which is nothing for someone in their 20's. Obviously gang related so therefore even the time he does on the inside won't be as bad as you'd think thanks to his other gang members in the pen. Shootings in public places in Toronto is getting worse.

[jaysfan4life]

I don't go to malls with subway stations/bus terminals attached.. Stupid crap like this happens there.

[robster77]

Scarborough is part the GTA and it's not Toronto that's like calling Markham Toronto.

Scarborough, North York, East York and Etobicoke were amalgamated into Toronto back in 1997. It's all Toronto now. People just refer to the old names as a point of reference.

[diggler649]

We are not tough enough on crime in Canada. The most this guy will get is 10-15 years MAX, which is nothing for someone in their 20's. Obviously gang related so therefore even the time he does on the inside won't be as bad as you'd think thanks to his other gang members in the pen. Shootings in public places in Toronto is getting worse.

I disagree. When caught, he will be charged with 1st degree murder and multiple attempt murder charges. He will get life in prison with no chance of parole for 25 years.

[arclite]

I disagree. When caught, he will be charged with 1st degree murder and multiple attempt murder charges. He will get life in prison with no chance of parole for 25 years.

This is Canada we're talking about. Criminals are protected.

[Mattones]

+1 . Back in 2009 ABC news did a great special called 'If I Only Had A Gun' showing how folks usually mess up during a real, stressful gun situation. Even with lots of training. You can watch some of it here (http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=7312540). Bottom line, leave the firearms to the professionals.

BTW - if you have Netflix check out the mall shooting episode of Surviving Disaster for some better tips on what to do. Or watch it here (http://www.spike.com/full-episodes/3w9eyj/surviving-disaster-mall-shooting-season-1-ep-107) on Spike's site.

Exactly why 70% of the police force should NOT own a gun they are way to trigger happy.

[dairymandip]

seems just by reading, that this reckless pos probably ran into someone who robbed him or something in the past, and decided that here was his chance to get his revenge.

how careless, idiotic, heartless must you be to let off a gun in a mall, i feel for all the victims, and everyone who had to be in that hectic situation.

[appleb]

You figure they would have released a description of the suspect by now. I suspect some political correctness is preventing that.

[45ED]

You figure they would have released a description of the suspect by now. I suspect some political correctness is preventing that.

A description was already released yesterday - just not an official, tidy description.

[DearSummer]

We are not tough enough on crime in Canada. The most this guy will get is 10-15 years MAX, which is nothing for someone in their 20's. Obviously gang related so therefore even the time he does on the inside won't be as bad as you'd think thanks to his other gang members in the pen. Shootings in public places in Toronto is getting worse.

The armchair lawyers here are just awful. One dead, many other innocent people shot. There is absolutely no way he gets 10-15 years max. He will face multiple counts of serious crimes and could easily spend the rest of his life in prison.

[longitude]

http://www.roflzoo.com/pics/042010/serious-cat-is-not-amused-big.jpg

It'd be nice if you could troll better* because that just bad trolling...


*or just not troll at all - even better

Please read my sig.

[longitude]

Is it confirmed that this was targeted?

Because if it wasn't targeted then we've got a problem...

[45ED]

Please read my sig.

Does not apply -- he was trying to state a fact, not an opinion.

[robster77]

You figure they would have released a description of the suspect by now. I suspect some political correctness is preventing that.

Probably. You'd think they'd want that camera footage out in public asap. God only know where this guy is now. Not sure why the apprehension is though in releasing it. There's nothing wrong with black people, but I'm guessing it wasn't a black person who did this. Chris Rock said it best here. Classic stuff and very nail on the head true:

*************************

[Shaner]

I disagree. When caught, he will be charged with 1st degree murder and multiple attempt murder charges. He will get life in prison with no chance of parole for 25 years.

It's not always as simple as that.

One of the gang bangers found guilty in the Jane Creba shooting was just released the other day. Shows how pathetic our system is.

[Raggie]

There's a brief description of the suspect in The Star.

[appleb]

A description was already released yesterday - just not an official, tidy description.

Yes I meant an official statement. I did read about the police scanner and what people were hearing off there, but police haven't said anything publicly.


Is it confirmed that this was targeted?

Because if it wasn't targeted then we've got a problem...

The police has confirmed they believe it was a targeted attack. Of course the gunman was a total dumbass, injuring 8 people in the process in what was probably a close range attack.

EDIT: sorry I meant 7 people.

[akira1971]

Exactly why 70% of the police force should NOT own a gun they are way to trigger happy.

You've watched too many movies and tv shows. Try looking at the real data like the Toronto Police Annual Report (http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/publications/files/reports/prs2009annualreport.pdf). Out of thousands of police incidents/calls in the city, only 24 resulted in police firing their weapon. And 17 of those 24 were incidents involving wounded or aggressive animals. Sorry if the facts don't support your rant.

[Shaner]

The armchair lawyers here are just awful. One dead, many other innocent people shot. There is absolutely no way he gets 10-15 years max. He will face multiple counts of serious crimes and could easily spend the rest of his life in prison.

By too many armchair lawyers, you need to include yourself. I won't pretend to know what he will or won't get as every case is different, but there are numerous cases of public shootings where the person didn't spend their whole lives in jail. Concurrent sentences are the norm, meaning few people in Canada spend their entire lives in jail.

[DearSummer]

By too many armchair lawyers, you need to include yourself. I won't pretend to know what he will or won't get as every case is different, but there are numerous cases of public shootings where the person didn't spend their whole lives in jail. Concurrent sentences are the norm, meaning few people in Canada spend their entire lives in jail.

I said they COULD spend their whole life in jail. To say that they will get 10-15 years MAX is absolutely ridiculous, which is what I was pointing out. It would be interesting to see some cases where a criminal was convicted of killing a person and shot others and did received a sentence less than 15 years.

[Abel4Life]

I disagree. When caught, he will be charged with 1st degree murder and multiple attempt murder charges. He will get life in prison with no chance of parole for 25 years.

And guaranteed soap dropping punishment to sweeten the deal (which should happen anyway). This criminal needs to be 'taught a lesson'.

[Kris81]

I really hope the cops find him, and are forced to shoot at him because he is reaching for what looks like a concealed weapon.

[masterhapposai]

I really hope the cops find him, and are forced to shoot at him because he is reaching for what looks like a concealed weapon.

15 shots in the groin sounds appropriate.

[Shaner]

I said they COULD spend their whole life in jail. To say that they will get 10-15 years MAX is absolutely ridiculous, which is what I was pointing out. It would be interesting to see some cases where a criminal was convicted of killing a person and shot others and did received a sentence less than 15 years.

It's not whether they receive a sentence of 15 years or not, it's that most lifers are out in 7-15 years. Even those that receive multiple life sentences, they are usually concurrent and as such they are able to be released in as little as 7 years sometimes. Remember, parole is automatic in this country, it doesn't have to be earned.

[Simaahoy]

This guy had a huge disregard for human life by shooting it up in a busy mall on a Saturday. He would be getting capital punishment if this occurred in Texas.

[DearSummer]

It's not whether they receive a sentence of 15 years or not, it's that most lifers are out in 7-15 years. Even those that receive multiple life sentences, they are usually concurrent and as such they are able to be released in as little as 7 years sometimes. Remember, parole is automatic in this country, it doesn't have to be earned.

The issue of how much time they will actually serve is separate from how much they will be sentenced to. The guy who shot the bullet that most likely killed Creba was sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 12 years. Will he get out after 12? Time will tell.

[Shaner]

The issue of how much time they will actually serve is separate from how much they will be sentenced to. The guy who shot the bullet that most likely killed Creba was sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 12 years. Will he get out after 12? Time will tell.

I'd love to answer that question as I have dealt with him on a regular basis, but I can't. I will say this though, one of the people involved in that shooting has already been released.

[NG]

Sadly too many cockbags follow that "stop snitching" crap.

It's easy enough to say that separate from being in the heart of it all but if you're living in that situation it soon becomes clear that there isn't going to be anyone to protect you from retribution.

[TheRock2012]

It's not always as simple as that.

One of the gang bangers found guilty in the Jane Creba shooting was just released the other day. Shows how pathetic our system is.

That reminds me Vincent Lee the cannibal on that greyhound massacre got released recentley. That wasn't even 3 years ago.:confused:

[Simaahoy]

That reminds me Vincent Lee the cannibal on that greyhound massacre got released recentley. That wasn't even 3 years ago.:confused:

The guy was deemed not criminally responsible for his actions and wasn't convicted.

[45ED]

That reminds me Vincent Lee the cannibal on that greyhound massacre got released recentley. That wasn't even 3 years ago.:confused:

He wasn't released -- he was given temporary day passes to leave his facility escorted by a nurse and a peace officer.

[kindred_99]

This guy had a huge disregard for human life by shooting it up in a busy mall on a Saturday. He would be getting capital punishment if this occurred in Texas.

People like this should spend the rest of their lives in jail, and when I say jail I mean a tiny cell with nothing more than a cot and toilet/sink, not the Bernardo ones with internet access, stereo, etc but real jail with no perks and pillows everywhere. No conjugal visits either, if you need it that bad ask your cell mate Bubba, I'm sure he'll lend a hand.

I'm not sure this is the best time to be talking about Texas justice. Recent reports show that they have put an alarmingly high number if innocent people to death there. They even execute the mentally challenged.

[transitguy1]

People like this should spend the rest of their lives in jail, and when I say jail I mean a tiny cell with nothing more than a cot and toilet/sink, not the Bernardo ones with internet access, stereo, etc but real jail with no perks and pillows everywhere. No conjugal visits either, if you need it that bad ask your cell mate Bubba, I'm sure he'll lend a hand.

I'm not sure this is the best time to be talking about Texas justice. Recent reports show that they have put an alarmingly high number if innocent people to death there. They even execute the mentally challenged.

So it would be okay for a mentally challenged person to inflict harm or death onto a innocent victim, but we shouldn't punish the mentally challenged just because of their mental condition?

The stupid mentality like that is why the laws in this country are not being changed to reflect the changing demographics. No wonder the criminals get a free pass while the victims get nothing, killers roam free in Canada.

Look at that Greyhound guy, he gets to roam around free even after beheading someone on a bus. What kind of ancient laws are still running this country?

No wonder people just walk up anywhere and shoot/stab anyone, without much consequences. They know they will out in some time once they claim insanity and mental handicap. The lawyers make their livelihood on this.

Wow just wow

[kindred_99]

So it would be okay for a mentally challenged person to inflict harm or death onto a innocent victim, but we shouldn't punish the mentally challenged just because of their mental condition?

The stupid mentality like that is why the laws in this country are not being changed to reflect the changing demographics. No wonder the criminals get a free pass while the victims get nothing, killers roam free in Canada.

Look at that Greyhound guy, he gets to roam around free even after beheading someone on a bus. What kind of ancient laws are still running this country?

No wonder people just walk up anywhere and shoot/stab anyone, without much consequences. They know they will out in some time once they claim insanity and mental handicap. The lawyers make their livelihood on this.

Wow just wow

I didn't say we should let them off, just don't execute them. I'm ok with living in a society that doesn't execute people, especially the mentally challenged. I'm for not executing kids either, outrageous I know right.

[longitude]

This list should be updated soon: http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/homicide/mostwanted.php

[kindred_99]

This list should be updated soon: http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/homicide/mostwanted.php

I love the listing for 17 yo Young Offender, brilliant. If there's anything that has to change, that is where it has to begin, the Youth Criminal Justice Act. What's the point of even putting that on the site? We are looking for someone but we can't tell you anything about him.

[Abel4Life]

This event is just a reminder of that 2005 boxing day shooting. Same class of thugs shooting each other in public where innocents get hurt.

[transitguy1]

I didn't say we should let them off, just don't execute them. I'm ok with living in a society that doesn't execute people, especially the mentally challenged. I'm for not executing kids either, outrageous I know right.

It's better to have a 'death for death' kind of punishment. When you do something wrong, you should face the consequences.
This kind of luxurious living in jail with all facilities is stupid. Either introduce tough labour to be done everyday, such as grinding rocks all day, etc or something, so the criminal is forced to repent and regret their crime every single second, like make them wish for death.

Now that would be more appropriate punishment for any murderes/rapists/drug mafia, etc. If teenagers are involved, they should suffer the same,


More and more of these kind of shootings/stabbings will occur if the laws are not updated.

On a side note, people should find other places to hang out now rather than shopping malls, on their off days. Like go to a park or something.
The malls better step up security and put metal detectors

[DearSummer]

It's better to have a 'death for death' kind of punishment. When you do something wrong, you should face the consequences.
This kind of luxurious living in jail with all facilities is stupid. Either introduce tough labour to be done everyday, such as grinding rocks all day, etc or something, so the criminal is forced to repent and regret their crime every single second, like make them wish for death.

Now that would be more appropriate punishment for any murderes/rapists/drug mafia, etc. If teenagers are involved, they should suffer the same,


More and more of these kind of shootings/stabbings will occur if the laws are not updated.

On a side note, people should find other places to hang out now rather than shopping malls, on their off days. Like go to a park or something.
The malls better step up security and put metal detectors

Canada's homicide rate declines to 44-year low (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/10/26/homicides-statscan.html)

[transitguy1]

Canada's homicide rate declines to 44-year low (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/10/26/homicides-statscan.html)

Tell that to the families of the innocent victims of the recent shooting. I'm sure that it will comfort them?

[DearSummer]

Tell that to the families of the innocent victims of the recent shooting. I'm sure that it will comfort them?

Your post is off-base. Less and less murders are happening, not more as you claimed.

Further, do you think the shooter's decision would have changed if penalties were harsher? Do you think he thought "oh I'll probably only spend 25 years in prison, it won't be so bad!". :lol::facepalm:

[45ED]

Your post is off-base. Less and less murders are happening, not more as you claimed.

Further, do you think the shooter's decision would have changed if penalties were harsher? Do you think he thought "oh I'll probably only spend 25 years in prison, it won't be so bad!". :lol::facepalm:

Fewer.

[kindred_99]

I think most of us agree that punishment in this country is generally not enough, I doubt there will be much arguing there. I don't think we need to be using Bible-like eye-for-an-eye type justice though either, that's another extreme. There are extreme cases like Bernardo that make us think twice about capital punishment but we can't let the extreme cases affect the system as a whole. There's a reason that public executions are not a deterrent. Criminals don't think they are going to get caught and they probably figure the system will go easy on them.

[Peckerwood]

You've watched too many movies and tv shows. Try looking at the real data like the Toronto Police Annual Report (http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/publications/files/reports/prs2009annualreport.pdf). Out of thousands of police incidents/calls in the city, only 24 resulted in police firing their weapon. And 17 of those 24 were incidents involving wounded or aggressive animals. Sorry if the facts don't support your rant.

Mattones is a Police Officer by the way. And he is actually correct about too many cops being trigger happy.

Out of most shooting incidents with Police, they miss their target more than 50% of the time. Civilians using firearms for defense tend to hit their intended targets between 80% and 85% of the time.


BS! Look at all those shootings in the states. How many people pulled out their guns to shoot the shooter? None! If they did, they all will be in court defending themselves from the shooter!

1. Most "massacres" happen in gun-free zones.
2. There are an estimated 850,000-2.3 million defensive gun uses per year in the US (Kleck, Lott)
3. Many states have castle doctrine, whereby most Sheriffs won't even bother bringing a charge forward once they determine it is a defensive shoot


And all of these experienced marksmen would have shot at the shooter without a single bullet hitting an innocent civilian? Give me a break.

Most defensive uses of a gun happen with the situation resolved just by the mere presenting of the gun. Out of the instances where shots are actually fired, many are warning shots. And of the times when a shot is fired and is intended to be fired at the assailant, hits are between 80-85% of the time, both in the US and in Canada.

Gun owners that buy a gun for defense actually train on them for that purpose in their spare time. Compare that to police officers who merely qualify on them after a few weeks training.

[45ED]

Police are apparently doing a live update right now.

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/video/liveplayer

[ur_funneh]

Why are most of you comparing this to the Creba shooting on Boxing Day? It's not similar at all!

The boxing day even happened outside, this one inside a shopping mall. Outdoor vs indoor

The boxing day Suspect(s) was in a gang and were exchanging bullets from another known gang member who also was aiming fire, this one only had one gunmen involved and we have yet to know if it's gang related, but definitely intentional.

Boxing day someone who was not part of the rival got shot and killed, this one the intended victim got killed (?? gang related?? )

The only thing in common was the fact that it happened with sorrounding people around, NOTHING ELSE>

Please stop comparing this to Creba case. The other victims who were injured might be in critical condition but thankfully they are still alive and not DEAD.

.... Now I ask you this, back in the boxing day event if the person who was shot was obviously an innocent bystander, then the person who "should" of got shot was what then? Not an innocent bystandard? Or is it because he was in a gang and carried a gun its ok for him to be killed?

[kindred_99]

Watching the press conference now. Ford just guaranteed they would catch the suspect 100%. Hopefully he knows something we don't. Police didn't say much, though that is understandable.

[Simaahoy]

They know who the shooter is... via ctv twitter

[Drew87]

The cops said that if anyone left things behind at the Eaton centre in the scramble they will be releasing details in the next day or so that will indicate how they can retrieve it...

if anyone knows anyone that was there that left things behind tell them to keep an eye on the news (which they probably already are)

[kindred_99]

Someone cue the awful Will Smith "Wild Wild West" theme.

[DearSummer]

*******************

Drop the pro-gun garbage before this thread gets locked for being political.

[Drew87]

Drop the pro-gun garbage before this thread gets locked for being political.

I can't believe I'm going to say this but I agree with Dearsummer - it's funny how people try to push and create drama in every single thread...Especially in a thread after an tragedy happens.

How about we keep this threads focus on what's important? Victim/suspect updates.....

[Mr980x]

***************************************
***************************************

My final point is this. More guns in the hands of more people is going to lead to more people getting upset and using those guns. Every domestic situation out there has now gotten multiple times more dangerous for us and the police.

[Mr980x]

I can't believe I'm going to say this but I agree with Dearsummer - it's funny how people try to push and create drama in every single thread...Especially in a thread after an tragedy happens.

How about we keep this threads focus on what's important? Victim/suspect updates.....


+1

Something tragic has happened. Lets all show some respect to those who were injured. Could have been someone we cared about.

I have been hearing rumors on Facebook and the net about how they know who the suspect is. Anyone know any more specifics?

[Anonymouse]

Don't worry, we have handgun registration in this country. That makes us safe.

[Dave98]

Police identified the man killed in the shooting as 24-year-old Toronto resident Ahmed Hassan.

Mr. Hassan was targeted by the shooter, and police suspect he had gang ties, although they aren't saying definitively the shooting was gang-related.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/police-identify-man-killed-in-toronto-eaton-centre-shooting/article4227365/

[RolandCouch]

Ford just guaranteed they would catch the suspect 100%.

Guess the guy is going to get away.

[cadillac12]

Confident they will make an arrest soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkBjgBbSTE8&feature=colike

[sandikosh]

Watching the press conference now. Ford just guaranteed they would catch the suspect 100%. Hopefully he knows something we don't. Police didn't say much, though that is understandable.

Not a surprising comment. There are cameras in the mall. Cameras at intersections. Cameras in buses. Cameras in the subway. Cameras in parking lots. Cameras on the highway. Regardless where the shooter runs, a camera will pick him up!

[Mr980x]

Guess the guy is going to get away.

Yes great joke to make. Lets turn this into a ford bash thread.


Not a surprising comment. There are cameras in the mall. Cameras at intersections. Cameras in buses. Cameras in the subway. Cameras in parking lots. Cameras on the highway. Regardless where the shooter runs, a camera will pick him up!

Lets hope so. Honestly I bet certain people know who the shooter was too. Too big of a case for someone not to turn this guy in either for tip money or because its the right thing to do.

[RolandCouch]

Didn't hear guarantee 100 new police officers, no graffiti, subways, weight loss, etc...?

[kindred_99]

Not a surprising comment. There are cameras in the mall. Cameras at intersections. Cameras in buses. Cameras in the subway. Cameras in parking lots. Cameras on the highway. Regardless where the shooter runs, a camera will pick him up!

He didn't guarantee they would identify him, he guaranteed they would catch him. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did, they guy couldn't have been that bright if he walked in to a packed mall full of cameras and opened fire. I just don't like cops and politicians making guarantees and promises like that, regardless of who they are what party they are with.

[DearSummer]

Already being discussed here: http://forums.redflagdeals.com/shots-fired-eaton-centre-1184767/

[NG]

Don't worry, we have handgun registration in this country. That makes us safe.

Yes because something doesn't work 100% of the time that automatically means that we should just get rid of it all together :rolleyes:

That said can we PLEASE keep gun control and the death penalty (pro or against) out of this.

It's little more than using the corpse of the dead victim as a pulpit to push your agenda.

[Jimboski]

Already being discussed here: http://forums.redflagdeals.com/shots-fired-eaton-centre-1184767/

:facepalm:.
You gave us a link back to the thread you posted In!

[BongoBong]

:facepalm:.
You gave us a link back to the thread you posted In!

probably made the post in another thread that got merged with this one

[DearSummer]

:facepalm:.
You gave us a link back to the thread you posted In!


probably made the post in another thread that got merged with this one

Yup, threads were merged as I suggested.

[Drew87]

CP24 ‏@CP24

A pregnant woman who was hospitalized following the Eaton Centre shooting has been released, a St. Michael's Hospital official tells CP24.

[motto1997]

Who said anything about running away? He simply said that giving firearms to people without the skills to properly use them could have resulted in more fatalities and injuries.
Just pay attention to the US. More guns there havent helped the crime rate.

Chances are if you had a gun and saw this unfold I doubt you would be calm and not nervous reaching for your gun. Remember this just caught you off guard. Who says you dont panic and forget to remove your safety? How about if you missed with your shots? Guess what now that gunman is more desperate and more likely to kill MORE people and probably you!

How do you also know that Drew would trample the woman? How do you know he wouldnt have helped her? Pretty ignorant for you to think you know how someone would react.

My final point is this. More guns in the hands of more people is going to lead to more people getting upset and using those guns. Every domestic situation out there has now gotten multiple times more dangerous for us and the police.

Well one of the requirements to obtain a concealed firearms license could be the success of a rigorous training regiment. Similar to what officers go through in police academy and such. My question to you is, if an off duty officer was in the area of the shooter, would you still carry the same stance, that more guns in this situation would be unwarranted?

[Mr980x]

Well one of the requirements to obtain a concealed firearms license could be the success of a rigorous training regiment. Similar to what officers go through in police academy and such. My question to you is, if an off duty officer was in the area of the shooter, would you still carry the same stance, that more guns in this situation would be unwarranted?

And if it was so rigorous then I bet less than 1 in 20 would pass so I doubt there would even be an extra gun around anyways. Besides thats a controlled test. Life isnt controlled. Hell you ever see police shoot during the commission of a crime? Its not like they are all that accurate either. Unless your in a constant state of readiness like during military service chances are your lucky to be 20% accurate. Thats alot of bullets missing their mark and hitting unintended targets.

Off-duty cops (trained for these exact situations and intended to confront them) compared to everyday civilians who really have no business trying to shoot anyone is a pretty laughable comparison. How are the police even goning to know who is bad or good in the firefight? Offduty cop himself is lucky to not get shot by his own force.

As was stated before. This is not the time or place to argue gun laws. We should be focusing on whats important, getting this clown caught and making an example of him and his buddies.

[Supercooled]

So 1 died and 2 in critical care. They say it was gang related.

[TheRed]

Darn I used to go to Eaton Centre everyday too and eat at the urban eatery...

[Supercooled]

Darn I used to go to Eaton Centre everyday too and eat at the urban eatery...

Pretty senseless how someone who wants to get a Mama Burger could potentially end up in a body bag. I hope they throw the book at these guy(s).

[Akraz]

So 1 died and 2 in critical care. They say it was gang related.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m41ivlyOof1qzbjopo2_500.jpg

[cadillac12]

Toronto police chief and lead investigator on Eaton Centre Shooting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-9-8h2M11I&feature=colike

http://youtu.be/bkBjgBbSTE8

[Akraz]

Toronto police chief and lead investigator on Eaton Centre Shooting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-9-8h2M11I&feature=colike

http://youtu.be/bkBjgBbSTE8

Theres a 20 page thread on this right now. Learn to use the damn forums.

[roxbird]

Anyone that lives in Toronto has to know that there is a good chance to get shot at any mall with a subway station. Yes Toronto is just that ghetto.

Toronto has millions of decent and law abiding citizens. All it takes is a single lunatic and an incident like this could happen anywhere. I have been to Eaton Centre on Saturday afternoons around this time, eating in the food court. It's filled with regular common folks, minding their own business. It's not a "ghetto" scene by any stretch of the imagination.

[nauru]

Theres a 20 page thread on this right now. Learn to use the damn forums.

lol so angry :lol:

[deltone]

Theres a 20 page thread on this right now. Learn to use the damn forums.

Nobody can dispute that the OP broke a couple of forum rules (newsbot and new thread when one already in progress) BUT your rudeness and abrasiveness in relaying that to him is uncalled for. One might suggest you learn some people skills and learn how to speak to people. You have been around long enough to know that while the OP broke a rule, so did you. Rudeness will not be tolerated is that rule.

IBTL (or the move)

OP, you might want to ask one of the mods to move your post to the existing thread. We aren't supposed to start new threads on a subject that already exists. By the way, I see you are new to RFD and don't have a lot of posts. Just for your own sake, please read the rules stickied to the top of the forum so that you won't be subjected to more outbursts like the one shown in this thread. Welcome to RFD.

[Supercooled]

Toronto has millions of decent and law abiding citizens. All it takes is a single lunatic and an incident like this could happen anywhere. I have been to Eaton Centre on Saturday afternoons around this time, eating in the food court. It's filled with regular common folks, minding their own business. It's not a "ghetto" scene by any stretch of the imagination.

This never happens at Yorkdale Mall or malls in suburban locales. Eaton Centre is becoming the cesspool for gang violence.

[Drew87]

Again, can you guys stay on topic - if you think the eaton centre is ghetto fine but don't bring that crap into this thread, this thread should be focusing on the victims/suspect not whether a guy behind a computer screen thinks the Eaton centre is ghetto....

[DearSummer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VZpCsEz9vZw#!

[DearSummer]

Interview with somebody who was there: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/03/toronto-eaton-centre-shooting-second-round-of-gunfire-seemed-kind-of-crazy/

[Metagame]

BS! Look at all those shootings in the states. How many people pulled out their guns to shoot the shooter? None! If they did, they all will be in court defending themselves from the shooter!

Might have something to do with the fact their population is almost 10 times ours? Herpitty derp derp derp


And all of these experienced marksmen would have shot at the shooter without a single bullet hitting an innocent civilian? Give me a break.

Yes, because they sell guns to just about every tom, ***** and harry without any type of licensing and training.

How can you people even post these with a straight face? It is beyond me how reasonable and civilized people can support the notion that law-abiding citizens should not be allowed to be armed, while just about every criminal is armed to the teeth these days.

[roxbird]

Jesus ****ing christ man.


^^^ You know, that is a really disgusting profanity.

[NG]

^^^ You know, that is a really disgusting profanity.

And people using this dead man to push their person agendas involving the death penalty and gun laws (pro or against) despite the new rule against politics is perfectly fine in your books?

I gotta ask since you're taking a stand on a few words despite the rest of the thread being filled with what I pointed out above.

[NG]

This never happens at Yorkdale Mall or malls in suburban locales. Eaton Centre is becoming the cesspool for gang violence.

Yorkdale? Isn't that the 1% mall for the GTA? I could see a gun fight breaking out...if someone's BMW got dinged.

[NG]

CP24 ‏@CP24

A pregnant woman who was hospitalized following the Eaton Centre shooting has been released, a St. Michael's Hospital official tells CP24.

Weird the release didn't mention anything about her baby since it was reported that she went into labour after being trampled.

[jp06]

This never happens at Yorkdale Mall or malls in suburban locales. Eaton Centre is becoming the cesspool for gang violence.

I recall a few years ago there was a shooting at Yorkdale. One of the security guards got shot but he had a vest on i think.

[Ojam]

^^^ You know, that is a really disgusting profanity.

**** offends you? :facepalm:

[Strategy]

Saddening news, RIP

[Mr980x]

You guys just dont get it do you?


THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO DISCUSS PRO OR AGAINST GUN LAWS.

[45ED]

Eaton Centre's going to be open on Monday. Well, "parts" of it:


Eaton Centre set to reopen Monday following fatal shooting
The retail and parking portions of the Eaton Centre will reopen Monday, following Saturday’s shooting which left one person dead, Cadillac Fairview Corporation Limited says.

[Mr980x]

removed



Here is an idea...if you hate how the majority has voted to have a government and chosen to abid by the rules set forth by them and allow police to do the law enforcement...then why dont you get yourself an island somewhere and do whatever you want. Pretty simple solution instead of complaining you need to feel big and powerful by enforcing your own rules and law.

Apparently YOU know best.

Again lets stick to the topic of the thread.

[Mr980x]

Eaton Centre's going to be open on Monday.

As it should be. I dont think we should let idiots like this shooter prevent us from living our lives.

Seems they have a suspect. lets see what the police choose to disclose to us.

My guess is one of his buddies is going to cash in and turn him in.

[Drew87]

Weird the release didn't mention anything about her baby since it was reported that she went into labour after being trampled.

The was a release way before saying her and the baby were fine and that she never gave birth - my guess is she had a panic attack/ false labour....

[Corleone187]

they should lock this idiot away along with that Lukas Magnolias guy who made that video

[CSK'sMom]

:!: Keep the politics out of this thread folks, it's strictly prohibited in the forums and will result in bans for repeat offenders. As stated in the Community Policies, if you've had posts deleted or edited, take it as a warning and don't repeat the behavior. :!:

[Mr980x]

Lets just leave policing the trolls to the admins.

[Metagame]

Funny how it is politics if we discuss the root of the problem rather than symptoms. Nice going, mods.

[Drew87]

:!: Keep the politics out of this thread folks, it's strictly prohibited in the forums and will result in bans for repeat offenders. As stated in the Community Policies, if you've had posts deleted or edited, take it as a warning and don't repeat the behavior. :!:

People are clearly not getting the message....

[No Frills]

Eaton Centre's going to be open on Monday. Well, "parts" of it:

Does anyone think there might be more deals there this week?

[Mr980x]

There is only been two shooting at the mall right? In 10 years? Creba (which happened outside the mall) and this one? Is there any other I missed?

We have had two murders in 14 years at Hamiltons biggest mall. Doesnt sound to me like Eatons Center is any more violence prone than any big city mall.

[Mr980x]

Does anyone think there might be more deals there this week?

Interesting point actually.

Entice people to return. Not a bad idea but can come off as insensitive to some or even promoting violence to others.

[BuildBuyBreed]

Luckily it was a gansta hit instead of a psycho indiscriminantly shooting mall-goers (ala Columbine or Brevik).

Although with the initial reports of mulitple random victims and the random shots fired, a lot of people might've thought it was a psycho.

[Shaner]

Funny how it is politics if we discuss the root of the problem rather than symptoms. Nice going, mods.

Agreed, although I don't blame the mods as they are just enforcing the rules. What exactly is political and what isn't? We can talk about the mayor of Toronto guaranteeing the police will catch this guy, but we can't talk about whether or not we should be allowed to arm ourselves for protection?

How in the hell is the first example not political but talking about guns is? These rules make no sense. Where is the common sense on this site? Who is making these rules? Is it Oranr or someone else? This is ridiculous.

[Abel4Life]

they should lock this idiot away along with that Lukas Magnolias guy who made that video

Ever see the movie 'Law Abiding Citizen'? That is a more reasonable punishment for the suspect.

[Corleone187]

I wont even start.



There is only been two shooting at the mall right? In 10 years? Creba (which happened outside the mall) and this one? Is there any other I missed?

We have had two murders in 14 years at Hamiltons biggest mall. Doesnt sound to me like Eatons Center is any more violence prone than any big city mall.

well i have a condo at collage and yonge and there is a police station right there so its sorta dumb to try anything stupid. And the police station is HUGE!

Its a nice area all year round, too bad some moron caused all this trouble. I didn't see this event though since I haven't been at my condo place since early May

[Mr980x]

I was wondering...

If the man killed was targeted and supposedly the shooter walked up behind him and shot him up close why would he then proceed to pop off shots after the fact? Was one of the other victims also a target too?

[Shaner]

:!: Keep the politics out of this thread folks, it's strictly prohibited in the forums and will result in bans for repeat offenders. As stated in the Community Policies, if you've had posts deleted or edited, take it as a warning and don't repeat the behavior. :!:

Then perhaps you guys should try explaining to us what the hell is politics and what isn't. Rod Ford guaranteeing this guy will be caught apparently isn't politics. Body parts being sent to the Tory HQ isn't politics. Mexico being a dangerous place isn't politics. Talking about whether we should be allowed to carry guns for protection is politics? Really? How does that make any sense. When did common sense get thrown out the window on this site?

Why is one politics and the other isn't? It seems a little unfair to ban people for making political posts when nobody has a clue what is and isn't politics. It's almost like you guys are making this stuff up as you go, either that you or you mods also have no idea what is and isn't politics, because the way the rule is being enforced makes absolutely no sense.

[Peckerwood]

Then perhaps you guys should try explaining to us what the hell is politics and what isn't. Rod Ford guaranteeing this guy will be caught apparently isn't politics. Body parts being sent to the Tory HQ isn't politics. Mexico being a dangerous place isn't politics. Talking about whether we should be allowed to carry guns for protection is politics? Really? How does that make any sense. When did common sense get thrown out the window on this site?

Why is one politics and the other isn't? It seems a little unfair to ban people for making political posts when nobody has a clue what is and isn't politics. It's almost like you guys are making this stuff up as you go, either that you or you mods also have no idea what is and isn't politics, because the way the rule is being enforced makes absolutely no sense.

+1

I have said it before and I will say it again:

Bring back the politics section and the mods won't have to make such odd rulings that make no sense.

[TheRock2012]

Removed before being moddified.

[CSK'sMom]

Then perhaps you guys should try explaining to us what the hell is politics and what isn't. Rod Ford guaranteeing this guy will be caught apparently isn't politics. Body parts being sent to the Tory HQ isn't politics. Mexico being a dangerous place isn't politics. Talking about whether we should be allowed to carry guns for protection is politics? Really? How does that make any sense. When did common sense get thrown out the window on this site?

Why is one politics and the other isn't? It seems a little unfair to ban people for making political posts when nobody has a clue what is and isn't politics. It's almost like you guys are making this stuff up as you go, either that you or you mods also have no idea what is and isn't politics, because the way the rule is being enforced makes absolutely no sense.

Shaner, 2 members were arguing gun control laws ... clearly politics with what was posted and frankly, inappropriate to this thread and derailing... I think everyone who has been around here for any length of time knows the hot button issues that bring out the same posters time after time and opinions never change and the same old arguments are repeated over and over again. ;)

[dibksbgon]

+2

Kinda getting a little ridiculous seeing posts disappearing that are not mean or spiteful and are just about debate and discussion.
The Off Topic forum will turn into completely inane boring topics if we can't have discussions about the major topics in the world today.
I guess there will be no election threads. No talk of any of the atrocities in Syria and else where. All politics.


And to the topic at hand: Would not think twice about going to Urban Eatery and Eaton Center. Still feel safe. Shitake happens. It shouldn't. But crap does happen. Just got to try to live life without fear! That is all.

[Jimboski]

I was wondering...

If the man killed was targeted and supposedly the shooter walked up behind him and shot him up close why would he then proceed to pop off shots after the fact? Was one of the other victims also a target too?

I THINK the one that got shot multiple times and In hospital now with the RIP tattoo might have been the other target too? Not sure. I don't see they would shoot someone multiple times If they WEREN'T the target.

[Shaner]

Shaner, 2 members were arguing gun control laws ... clearly politics with what was posted and frankly, inappropriate to this thread and derailing... I think everyone who has been around here for any length of time knows the hot button issues that bring out the same posters time after time and opinions never change and the same old arguments are repeated over and over again. ;)

How is that clearly politics? So you're saying a discussion about whether or not we should be allowed to carry guns for protection is politics? Why is that politics? Who cares if it's a hot button issue, that doesn't automatically mean it's politics. Who cares if opinions never change and it's the same old arguments, that doesn't automatically make it political. Frankly, talking about gun control in a thread about shooting is not inappropriate nor is it derailing the thread. The topic is the shooting of innocent bystanders, what is more relevant than talking about gun control for protection?

Why is it political but a thread about euthanasia isn't? I made that thread knowing full well it would likely be locked, but I did it because I was angry and felt like ranting. To my surprise, it hasn't been locked, which must mean it's not political. How is that not political and talking about gun control is?

If you guys are going to have absolutely no tolerance and start handing out bans for the dumbest reasons, then at least be consistent. I've been preaching for the use of common sense and discretion all along, but the powers that be decided that actually using the human mind is a bad thing and everything would be strictly black and white from now on. So if that's the case, figure out what is and isn't politics and stand by it all the time with no exceptions, or don't threaten some people with bans simply because they get reported by users that disagree with them, and leave other threads open that are clearly political.

[poedua]

Agreed, although I don't blame the mods as they are just enforcing the rules. What exactly is political and what isn't? We can talk about the mayor of Toronto guaranteeing the police will catch this guy, but we can't talk about whether or not we should be allowed to arm ourselves for protection?

How in the hell is the first example not political but talking about guns is? These rules make no sense. Where is the common sense on this site? Who is making these rules? Is it Oranr or someone else? This is ridiculous.

The mayor of Toronto guaranteeing the police will catch this guy is simply giving the police a vote of confidence in a criminal mater ( nothing particularly political at this stage about a murder and it's impending investigation in my view or the mayors declaration of support...in fact it'a ' apolitical ' if anything ) but I suppose I can see whether or not we should be allowed to arm ourselves for protection as being a government policy / political issue.

[poedua]

How is that clearly politics? So you're saying a discussion about whether or not we should be allowed to carry guns for protection is politics? Why is that politics? Who cares if it's a hot button issue, that doesn't automatically mean it's politics. Who cares if opinions never change and it's the same old arguments, that doesn't automatically make it political. Frankly, talking about gun control in a thread about shooting is not inappropriate nor is it derailing the thread. The topic is the shooting of innocent bystanders, what is more relevant than talking about gun control for protection?.

Since our Canada's political parties have clear philosophical differences on the ' hot button issue ' of gun control policy ( both between them and among them ) it IS a political issue....... IMO.

[Abel4Life]

+2

Kinda getting a little ridiculous seeing posts disappearing that are not mean or spiteful and are just about debate and discussion.
The Off Topic forum will turn into completely inane boring topics if we can't have discussions about the major topics in the world today.
I guess there will be no election threads. No talk of any of the atrocities in Syria and else where. All politics.


And to the topic at hand: Would not think twice about going to Urban Eatery and Eaton Center. Still feel safe. Shitake happens. It shouldn't. But crap does happen. Just got to try to live life without fear! That is all.

+3.

Eventually a new rule for 'Off Topic' will come stating : "If its news or media related you cannot post about it".

[mbg]

Let's hope they catch this dirtbag.

[NG]

Agreed, although I don't blame the mods as they are just enforcing the rules. What exactly is political and what isn't? We can talk about the mayor of Toronto guaranteeing the police will catch this guy, but we can't talk about whether or not we should be allowed to arm ourselves for protection?

How in the hell is the first example not political but talking about guns is? These rules make no sense. Where is the common sense on this site? Who is making these rules? Is it Oranr or someone else? This is ridiculous.

I'm surprised that quote from Rob Ford is still there. I would have assumed that the mods would have deleted it.

It really should be gone since it'll just open up the gates to politics talk



**** offends you? :facepalm:

**** I guess so.

[Drew87]

Let's hope they catch this dirtbag.

Definitely - I'm interested in how long it will take to catch this guy > press charges > start the trial.

[Shaner]

Definitely - I'm interested in how long it will take to catch this guy > press charges > start the trial.

For a murder charge, I would expect 1-2 years for a trial to begin, if there even was a trial. It won't happen quick, and there's a chance he'd be out on bail during that period of time.

[Drew87]

Yeah - I figured that the trial would be at least a year... Either way they need to catch this guy - who really knows who this guy is - what type of connections or groups he's involved with....

[kindred_99]

When I brought up Ford it was because someone mentioned that the press conference was on. I noticed that he said something and I even mentioned that I don't think its a good idea when any cop or politician regardless of party make claims like that, it wasn't intended to be political. I'm not sure what the point is of allowing discussions if everything is going to be picked apart and removed. I don't think I have ever seen so many threads closed. I am new to the OT boards but have been in others for years and didn't notice any issues until recently. Did something happen that caused all these changes at RFD that I missed?

[DearSummer]

For a murder charge, I would expect 1-2 years for a trial to begin, if there even was a trial. It won't happen quick, and there's a chance he'd be out on bail during that period of time.

Almost no chance he's out on bail as it's a Section 469 offence.

[windforcexx28]

Let's hope they catch this dirtbag.

+1

[izzyzz]

Then perhaps you guys should try explaining to us what the hell is politics and what isn't. Rod Ford guaranteeing this guy will be caught apparently isn't politics. Body parts being sent to the Tory HQ isn't politics. Mexico being a dangerous place isn't politics. Talking about whether we should be allowed to carry guns for protection is politics? Really? How does that make any sense. When did common sense get thrown out the window on this site?

Why is one politics and the other isn't? It seems a little unfair to ban people for making political posts when nobody has a clue what is and isn't politics. It's almost like you guys are making this stuff up as you go, either that you or you mods also have no idea what is and isn't politics, because the way the rule is being enforced makes absolutely no sense.

"Common sense" is an oxymoron, sense isn't common. Obviously, the mods have to use some discretion as to what they consider political issue or not. If they think you're breaking the rules, they'll let you know before banning. I think that's fair. No need to rant about it.

[whampoa]

Then perhaps you guys should try explaining to us what the hell is politics and what isn't. Rod Ford guaranteeing this guy will be caught apparently isn't politics. Body parts being sent to the Tory HQ isn't politics. Mexico being a dangerous place isn't politics. Talking about whether we should be allowed to carry guns for protection is politics? Really? How does that make any sense. When did common sense get thrown out the window on this site?

Why is one politics and the other isn't? It seems a little unfair to ban people for making political posts when nobody has a clue what is and isn't politics. It's almost like you guys are making this stuff up as you go, either that you or you mods also have no idea what is and isn't politics, because the way the rule is being enforced makes absolutely no sense.

Shaner,

Welcome to 1984, oops I mean 2012.

Big Brother, doublethink and thoughtcrime are apparently alive and well in OT.

Remember gun, politic and race have absolutely nothing to do with the Weekend shooting at a crowded mall.

[Toukolou]

I find izzyzz's avatar offensive, who do I report it to?

[wilsonlam97]

Damn the shooter. These kind of people are unwelcomed here in Canada.

[NG]

When I brought up Ford it was because someone mentioned that the press conference was on. I noticed that he said something and I even mentioned that I don't think its a good idea when any cop or politician regardless of party make claims like that, it wasn't intended to be political. I'm not sure what the point is of allowing discussions if everything is going to be picked apart and removed. I don't think I have ever seen so many threads closed. I am new to the OT boards but have been in others for years and didn't notice any issues until recently. Did something happen that caused all these changes at RFD that I missed?

Rob Ford ate a guy and the discussion got kinda heated. (That's not political btw - just a fat joke and I can say that since I'm fatso too).


I find izzyzz's avatar offensive, who do I report it to?

You can do so by clicking this link (http://forums.redflagdeals.com/report.php?p=14839336)

[deal_with_singh]

As someone posted this earlier...

11 minutes 15 seconds...
"We are investigating this person as well as another individual, It may be that both of them have gang affiliations" (in reference to the guy dead)

11 minutes 30 seconds...
Were any of the other victims targeted
"Perhaps 1 but its still under investigation"

IMO the guy with the multiple gun shot wounds...age 25...a year older than the dead...doesn't take a genius to realize that there was some connection here.

This is going off something I saw yesterday, but I believe they were of the same skin colour (this is not a racist comment, I'm simply pointing out that they could be related).


On a positive note:


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/deadly-shooting-torontos-eaton-centre-sparks-mass-panic-104547783.html



A 13-year-old boy who was visiting Toronto with his family suffered a gunshot wound to his head and remained in critical condition Sunday, though police said his injuries were no longer considered life-threatening.

This boy has got to luckiest kids around getting shot to the head and living. I'm glad he's ok and hopefully can live a normal life ahead.




A 28-year-old pregnant woman who was trampled as people rushed the exits was recovering in hospital, Borg said.
"That woman and her unborn child, I’m glad to say are doing well," he said.

Couldn't have been more relieved to hear this. Can you imagine what this person would have felt if anything were to happen to the unborn child?

[manmanny]

Rob Ford ate a guy and the discussion got kinda heated. (That's not political btw - just a fat joke and I can say that since I'm fatso too).



You can do so by clicking this link (http://forums.redflagdeals.com/report.php?p=14839336)

Things are bad since Friday but that made me laugh.

surveillance cameras have been “extremely fruitful in identifying the person that we believe is responsible for the shooting.”

That's good news. But not for people who lost family member or injured. again !@#$% gangsters.

[Manatus]

Since our Canada's political parties have clear philosophical differences on the ' hot button issue ' of gun control policy ( both between them and among them ) it IS a political issue....... IMO.

But they have clear philosophical differences on nearly every topic, since that's the way they set themselves up (if you like X, then I hate X). I mean healthcare, education, peacekeeping/the military, the economy... all of those contain many huge political issues. I think a lot of us want to know exactly what is allowed and what isn't, because it's really not clear, and I'm not saying this to start an argument. If we're not allowed to talk about any of those topics, then we're not allowed to talk about any of those topics - and that's cool. It just seems right now that enforcement is a little bit all over the place, and at this stage in the game where we are all attempting to adjust to new rules, that makes it pretty difficult. To me it looks like "politics" is being used as a blanket reason to remove anything undesirable, kind of like "low content" was, except the difference now is the people being targeted are actually literate.

[Madchester]

No one posted this yet? (unless mods removed it)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VZpCsEz9vZw

[iEyeCaptain]

For a murder charge, I would expect 1-2 years for a trial to begin, if there even was a trial. It won't happen quick, and there's a chance he'd be out on bail during that period of time.

Shaner, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell the courts will grant bail to this guy. Especially when the police now say video cameras caught the guy on camera.

The shooter is definitely a flight risk.

[Shaner]

Shaner, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell the courts will grant bail to this guy. Especially when the police now say video cameras caught the guy on camera.

The shooter is definitely a flight risk.

I don't think so either, but every now and then decisions made by the courts blows me away. I've seen stranger things happen

[Shaner]

"Common sense" is an oxymoron, sense isn't common. Obviously, the mods have to use some discretion as to what they consider political issue or not. If they think you're breaking the rules, they'll let you know before banning. I think that's fair. No need to rant about it.

You missed my point. Oranr stated there will be no political discussions, no exceptions whatsoever, and there would be no tolerance at all toward political discussions. It seems; however, that's not the case. Some political threads are still being allowed whereas some threads that aren't political at all are being locked. Add to this that us members are being threatened with bans if we continue to post political discussions. The problem is nobody seems to know what is and isn't political, including some of the mods. They made it clear there would be no discretion and that absolutely all political talk would be banned, but that's not happening. I'd be fine with some discretion and I preached for that, but on one hand we have the mods allowing some political talk to remain (even though it's been pointed out to them it's political), and on the other hand we're being threatened with bans if we talk politics. It can't work both ways.

I've defended the mods for a long time from those people who demand more consistent enforcement of the rules, but with this latest rule change, now I need to question the enforcement, or sometimes lack thereof.

[DrXenon]

To me it looks like "politics" is being used as a blanket reason to remove anything undesirable, kind of like "low content" was, except the difference now is the people being targeted are actually literate.

It's worse than that, they actually banned the guy, for no reason I can see. There is some big time Zimbardo effect going on with RFD mods these days.

The right to self defence falls under the right to security of the person under the Charter. Has nothing to do with politics.

[diggler649]

+3.

Eventually a new rule for 'Off Topic' will come stating : "If its news or media related you cannot post about it".

+69.

Pretty soon the only thing you'll be able to talk about in OT is: weather, plans for the weekend and your cholesterol level.

[Toukolou]

You can do so by clicking this link (http://forums.redflagdeals.com/report.php?p=14839336)
Tongue was firmly planted in cheek...

No one posted this yet? (unless mods removed it)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VZpCsEz9vZw

I found this video very helpful in detailing the aftermath, thanks for posting.

[Mr980x]

I've defended the mods for a long time from those people who demand more consistent enforcement of the rules, but with this latest rule change, now I need to question the enforcement, or sometimes lack thereof.



Why did I have my post deleted (responding to flamebait) and others didnt. NSX edited my posts but CKS's mom deleted them. Where is the consistency? I was pro mod as well and think NSX is as good as they come but honestly its feeling like one doesnt know if the post the make will get them banned. I guess we have to talk around the supposed offenders like they never even posted.

Back to the main focus of the thread, when is the public going to be told more about this suspect?

[Drew87]

Back to the main focus of the thread, when is the public going to be told more about this suspect?

Probably when the police are comfortable - they probably don't want to make it too obvious to the suspect that they know it's him - Obviously the suspect is probably following the news and hiding somewhere but then again to do what he did he's probably not there mentally....He might be soo cocky that he thinks the police have no idea who he is and he might let his guard down...

[Mr980x]

I guess I was right about one of the other victims being a gang member as well.

This from the Hamilton Spectator

"He said another victim, a 23-year-old man who suffered multiple gunshot wounds to the neck and chest and remains hospitalized in critical condition, may also have gang ties."

They also said that Police believe there was only one shooter. I knew there was a reason so many shots were fired when supposedly the victim was practically executed from behind.


Police also wont be sharing any information on the shooter so my guess is that they know who they are looking for and must be pretty close to an arrest.

http://www.thespec.com/news/ontario/article/736927--eaton-centre-shooting-police-identify-victim-while-search-for-gunman-continues

[RolandCouch]

I just came here to say Shaner is 100% right about the inconsistency (re: politics)

[Jimboski]

I guess I was right about one of the other victims being a gang member as well.

This from the Hamilton Spectator

"He said another victim, a 23-year-old man who suffered multiple gunshot wounds to the neck and chest and remains hospitalized in critical condition, may also have gang ties."

They also said that Police believe there was only one shooter. I knew there was a reason so many shots were fired when supposedly the victim was practically executed from behind.


Police also wont be sharing any information on the shooter so my guess is that they know who they are looking for and must be pretty close to an arrest.

http://www.thespec.com/news/ontario/article/736927--eaton-centre-shooting-police-identify-victim-while-search-for-gunman-continues

Yeah I had a suspicion also why the other person had MULTIPLE gunshot wounds and I saw that RIP tattoo probably meaning of gang ties and what not. Also the fact that so many shots were fired, No wonder the hospital was under lock down too In case the shooter wanted to finish the job etc..

[appleb]

The police say the guy who was killed was known to police, and they also know the name of the suspect they are looking for. But they are not releasing the suspect's name. Also they wouldn't confirm it is gang related but if it is (and it probably is), then I would assume they aren't releasing the name because they don't want the other gang to go after him. Police already know who they are looking for and releasing the name to the public won't help their search.

[nickinto]

The police say the guy who was killed was known to police, and they also know the name of the suspect they are looking for. But they are not releasing the suspect's name. Also they wouldn't confirm it is gang related but if it is (and it probably is), then I would assume they aren't releasing the name because they don't want the other gang to go after him. Police already know who they are looking for and releasing the name to the public won't help their search.

You can be sure they are tracking all of his movements, wiretap all his calls (hoping he incriminates himself), and are waiting for the perfect moment when he's walking outside to apprehend him (why risk going into his place with a SWAT team if you can surround him when he's on walking to his car/subway).

They probably also have his name on a watchlist at the airport so he'll get flagged if he tries flying out of the country...

[nexuslover]

My heart goes out to Toronto. Another act of senseless violence claiming innocent lives. Here in Montreal a gruesome killing- barely a week later-then this. Not to mention some of the gruesome acts that have been occurring in the U.S. Stay safe everyone.

[diggler649]

I couldn't care less if every single gang member killed each other in an outright war. Do it in a swamp or an abandoned coal mine. Don't do it where the innocent public can get hurt.

[Psubs]

They should do another flashmob or something happy at Yonge/Dundas like there was for St. Patrick's day.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DktZtuHYrq0

[NG]

I couldn't care less if every single gang member killed each other in an outright war. Do it in a swamp or an abandoned coal mine. Don't do it where the innocent public can get hurt.

Perhaps the government should offer a $10 million dollar battle royale for all gangs.

They all go to the middle of the nowhere and fight to the death with the winning gang getting the $10 million.

They could even run it on PPV to make up the costs.

That should bring down the gang population.

[Tornado F2]

I couldn't care less if every single gang member killed each other in an outright war. Do it in a swamp or an abandoned coal mine. Don't do it where the innocent public can get hurt.

They should build something like a skateboard park in the 'burbs for them, where they can get together and sort out their grievances well away from decent law-abiding citizens. We're regularly hearing about innocent bystanders being shot, or of shootings due to mistaken identity. These people obviously aren't very bright. You have to wonder how their families qualified for entry to Canada in the first place, because it definitely wasn't based on IQ. Wonder if we can get Nunavut to donate a remote Arctic island to us where we can ship all these losers off to? Let them survive in the boonies for a while and see if that knocks any sense or responsibility into them.

[Tornado F2]

Perhaps the government should offer a $10 million dollar battle royale for all gangs.

They all go to the middle of the nowhere and fight to the death with the winning gang getting the $10 million.

They could even run it on PPV to make up the costs.

That should bring down the gang population.

Don't give them money. Give them a one-way ticket to whatever country (other than Canada) they want to go to, along with houses to live in when they get there. That way they're then somebody else's problem, not ours.

[Tornado F2]

You can be sure they are tracking all of his movements, wiretap all his calls (hoping he incriminates himself), and are waiting for the perfect moment when he's walking outside to apprehend him (why risk going into his place with a SWAT team if you can surround him when he's on walking to his car/subway).

They probably also have his name on a watchlist at the airport so he'll get flagged if he tries flying out of the country...

They may also be waiting for a member of the victim's gang to do their job for them. Odds are that his associates know who did it, and will be looking for him too. Once they've got him and disposed of him, police can step in and stick a few more thugs in prison too. Put enough away and maybe the kids in their neighbourhoods will have a chance to grow up to be something worthwhile.

[Jimboski]

They may also be waiting for a member of the victim's gang to do their job for them. Odds are that his associates know who did it, and will be looking for him too. Once they've got him and disposed of him, police can step in and stick a few more thugs in prison too. Put enough away and maybe the kids in their neighbourhoods will have a chance to grow up to be something worthwhile.

If the victim's gang members wanted revenge It wouldn't be now but In a long time because they also know that the shooter has a lot of heat on him. So If they go now they'll be caught too!
But yeah hopefully they make an arrest soon.

[Tornado F2]

If the victim's gang members wanted revenge It wouldn't be now but In a long time because they also know that the shooter has a lot of heat on him. So If they go now they'll be caught too!
But yeah hopefully they make an arrest soon.

There seems to be a lot of ***** -for-tat killing going on in some of these neighbourhoods where they're constantly trying to get revenge on one another. It's high time this destructive cycle was somehow brought to an end. Especially now that they seem to be bringing their dirty business to popular areas well outside their own 'hoods and are harming completely innocent people in the process.

[mbg]

They should do another flashmob or something happy at Yonge/Dundas like there was for St. Patrick's day.

Maybe one day we will see a flash shootout where a bunch of gangstas go to YD Square one day and have a gunfight in the middle.

It could be like Toronto's version of the Calgary Stampede and sold as a tourist attraction (with bulletproof glass in front of the spectators to avoid Eaton Centre situations).

[edgedamage]

They may also be waiting for a member of the victim's gang to do their job for them. Odds are that his associates know who did it, and will be looking for him too. Once they've got him and disposed of him, police can step in and stick a few more thugs in prison too. Put enough away and maybe the kids in their neighbourhoods will have a chance to grow up to be something worthwhile.

Seeing how bad of a shot these goofs are I hope the shooter gets a bullet in the back. And spends his time in jail in a wheelchair there he will be a boytoy on wheels.

[MPaia]

According to the Toronto police twitter account, an arrest has been made but no further details were released.

[poedua]

But they have clear philosophical differences on nearly every topic, since that's the way they set themselves up (if you like X, then I hate X). I mean healthcare, education, peacekeeping/the military, the economy... all of those contain many huge political issues.

And so is gun control...which is why it isn't open for discussion on this site...it's a ' political ' issue.


I think a lot of us want to know exactly what is allowed and what isn't, because it's really not clear, and I'm not saying this to start an argument.

For now, anything deemed ' political ' by the mods isn't allowed - that's the best you can hope for right now IMO.

It's simply a ' judgment call ' on the mods part as it is when they enforce all the other RFD rules...as not all rules are ' black & white ' where you " know exactly what is allowed and what isn't ".....most rules have a grey area and are open to interpretation by the mods.

And the interpretation and enforcement of this new rule is in it infancy in this case, so you have to allow both the mods and members time to adjust to the new reality. That said, it may be that, just coming out of the gate on this new rule, that the pendulum has swung a bit too far to one side in terms of very strict enforcement, but eventually, as with all new rules, it will eventually swing back a bit and find it's own equilibrium....you have to give it time.

Keep in mind, we also have rules that bans avatars that contain sexual connotation, racial profiling, low content, personal attacks, trolling, flame-baiting, harassment, taunting, incitement, being rude, be disrespectful to, disparaging, stalking, drawing negative attention to other members etc. etc. etc. ALL of which rely a mod's ' judgment ' in order to be enforced. And in this regard, it is impossible to know " exactly what is " a violation of the low content, personal attacks, trolling, flame-baiting etc. etc. rules because it is based on a ' judgment call ' by the mods. Same for political threads...it's a ' judgement call '....at least for now.

And trust me, 99.9% of folks who've had threads or posts deleted by mods for violations of rules like low content, personal attacks, trolling, flame-baiting etc. etc. disagree and rag on the mods just as we're seeing in this thread when it comes to deleted content because of political issues. And of course compounding the challenge for mods to make the right ' judgment call ', is that they're having to enforce a rule to ban content that was once allowed....which is much, much more difficult. It's unlike enforcing rules for avatars that contain sexual connotation, racial profiling, low content, personal attacks, trolling, flame-baiting, harassment, taunting, incitement, being rude, be disrespectful to, disparaging, drawing negative attention to other members etc. etc. etc. which have never been allowed.


If we're not allowed to talk about any of those topics, then we're not allowed to talk about any of those topics - and that's cool.

I agree.


It just seems right now that enforcement is a little bit all over the place, and at this stage in the game where we are all attempting to adjust to new rules, that makes it pretty difficult.

Yes...it IS difficult.

Anytime you ban content that was once allowed, it makes for a much more difficult transition / adjustment - both for the members and the mods - ...no question.


To me it looks like "politics" is being used as a blanket reason to remove anything undesirable, kind of like "low content" was, except the difference now is the people being targeted are actually literate.

I don't think so.

[neutral]

There seems to be a lot of ***** -for-tat killing going on in some of these neighbourhoods where they're constantly trying to get revenge on one another. It's high time this destructive cycle was somehow brought to an end. Especially now that they seem to be bringing their dirty business to popular areas well outside their own 'hoods and are harming completely innocent people in the process.

Well if something is a societal problem, it seems fair it would affect all of society.

[DearSummer]

According to the Toronto police twitter account, an arrest has been made but no further details were released.

+1. I'm hearing the shooter turned himself in.

[Abel4Life]

I couldn't care less if every single gang member killed each other in an outright war. Do it in a swamp or an abandoned coal mine. Don't do it where the innocent public can get hurt.

Huge +1.

[Corleone187]

looks like it. Wow what a moron wasting everyone's time. Now to lock him up with that other moron that made the video tape

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/1205377--eaton-centre-shooting-suspect-arrested-police-say?bn=1

[TheRock2012]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/06/04/toronto-eaton-centre.html

[diggler649]

Wondering if this douche is a young offender. Maybe that's why no details are being released. We really need to do something about the Youth Criminal Act in Canada.

Oh wait, is this political? Need to distract the mods. What's that over there? Oh, look! It's a blue butterfly! Wow! It looks like it came straight from the Avatar movie!

[oranr]

Please stay on Topic. Discussion of mods or the political rule, is not allowed in this thread and if discussed going forward, will result in the post being removed (this may include infraction points or a temporary ban)

[oranr]

Wondering if this douche is a young offender. Maybe that's why no details are being released. We really need to do something about the Youth Criminal Act in Canada.

Oh wait, is this political? Need to distract the mods. What's that over there? Oh, look! It's a blue butterfly! Wow! It looks like it came straight from the Avatar movie!

This type of comment is not needed and will not be tolerated. You are not allowed to incite or taunt (including direct at the mods), it is in our policies. Final Warning, this type of behaviour will not be allowed.

[longitude]

This article sums up my sentiments:

Fiorito: Eaton Centre shooter a loser (http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1205253--fiorito-eaton-centre-shooter-a-loser)

[edgedamage]

This article sums up my sentiments:

Fiorito: Eaton Centre shooter a loser (http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1205253--fiorito-eaton-centre-shooter-a-loser)

Every shooting needs a article printed like this in every paper.

[manmanny]

Eaton Centre shooting suspect arrested, police say

Good news.

[neutral]

This article sums up my sentiments:

Fiorito: Eaton Centre shooter a loser (http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1205253--fiorito-eaton-centre-shooter-a-loser)

I don't know why people like him want to pretend that gangsters were somehow more honorable in the past.

[manmanny]

I don't know why people like him want to pretend that gangsters were somehow more honorable in the past.
since the dude is been arrested, yes the journalists(like Joe) were more honorable(journalists) and unbiased.

[WildWolf]

They found him quick, I'm beginning to wonder if this was an excuse for some other plan, what that plan is, is more security when I know this was a rare isolated incident. Less freedom.


"Those that sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither"

[45ED]

They found him quick, I'm beginning to wonder if this was an excuse for some other plan, what that plan is, is more security when I know this was a rare isolated incident. Less freedom.

More like he found them, given that the suspect turned himself in this morning just after 2. Wonder what convinced him -- media/LE heat? Someone in his family convinced him? Guilt? Something else?

[Simaahoy]

They found him quick, I'm beginning to wonder if this was an excuse for some other plan, what that plan is, is more security when I know this was a rare isolated incident. Less freedom.

He turned himself in, and since he shot up that guy in front of hundreds of shoppers I am not surprised he got caught quickly.

[neutral]

since the dude is been arrested, yes the journalists(like Joe) were more honorable(journalists) and unbiased.

I'm not sure what this means, but the guy turned himself in. I wonder if this was common practice for the old time gangsters as well?

[sedated_xtc]

They found him quick, I'm beginning to wonder if this was an excuse for some other plan, what that plan is, is more security when I know this was a rare isolated incident. Less freedom.

I think it was mentioned on CP24 this morning that he turned himself in.

[Fanboy]

since the dude is been arrested, yes the journalists(like Joe) were more honorable(journalists) and unbiased.

Did you write the article? Your response is almost as impenetrable as Fiorito's prolix prose.


They found him quick, I'm beginning to wonder if this was an excuse for some other plan, what that plan is, is more security when I know this was a rare isolated incident. Less freedom.

*Sigh* Don't worry, they'll know you're impervious to their security when you show up in your tinfoil hat.

I mean, Illuminati plans always hinge on shooting 13-year-olds, right?

[appleb]

I don't know why people like him want to pretend that gangsters were somehow more honorable in the past.

It seems like the guy who wrote that rant has been watching too many movies that glamorizes 60's gangsters.

[manmanny]

]Did you write the article?[/B] Your response is almost as impenetrable as Fiorito's prolix prose.



*Sigh* Don't worry, they'll know you're impervious to their security when you show up in your tinfoil hat.

I mean, Illuminati plans always hinge on shooting 13-year-olds, right?

Have you subscribe Star for years?

[Shaner]

They found him quick, I'm beginning to wonder if this was an excuse for some other plan, what that plan is, is more security when I know this was a rare isolated incident. Less freedom.

It's actually a bit scary that with how powerful the human mind is and what we are capable of, this is what some people conclude from an incident like this.

[Drew87]

So I don't know if this has been posted but here's the latest


The guy turned himself in last night and the Toronto Police will have a press conference at 2pm to inform the public and update them on what's going on.

Taken from CTV.com

Police sources told CTV Toronto's Tamara Cherry that the suspect surrendered himself at the downtown 52 Division headquarters at about 2:30 a.m. Monday.

More information is expected to be released at a police press conference scheduled for 2 p.m.

Police had promised swift action in their investigation following the shocking and public Saturday evening attack that left Ahmed Hassan, 24, dead.

[manmanny]

So I don't know if this has been posted but here's the latest


The guy turned himself in last night and the Toronto Police will have a press conference at 2pm to inform the public and update them on what's going on.

Taken from CTV.com

Police sources told CTV Toronto's Tamara Cherry that the suspect surrendered himself at the downtown 52 Division headquarters at about 2:30 a.m. Monday.

More information is expected to be released at a police press conference scheduled for 2 p.m.

Police had promised swift action in their investigation following the shocking and public Saturday evening attack that left Ahmed Hassan, 24, dead.

Joe fierito article headlines

"Eaton Centre Shooter a coward" inside pn page4 or GT4

"if you had any guts you'd turn yourself in"

[jaysfan4life]

Simple story of the cops being on some tail to much they leave they business card at their mothers house. Then you have 2 choices run and never turn back or get a lawyer.

[manmanny]

I wonder if its related to this old shootings.

Somali-Canadians caught in Alberta’s deadly drug trade (http://www.thestar.com/news/investigations/article/783534--somali-canadians-caught-in-alberta-s-deadly-drug-trade)

[manmanny]

now starting to see different headline and not as guy been arrested.

"Suspect in Toronto Eaton Centre shooting in custody" G&M

"Updated: Suspect in Eaton Centre shooting surrenders" CityTV

[Drew87]

now starting to see different headline and not as guy been arrested.

"Suspect in Toronto Eaton Centre shooting in custody" G&M

"Updated: Suspect in Eaton Centre shooting surrenders" CityTV

I think it makes sense for the headlines to be different - if they all have the same one it won't attract readers but then again - it's all speculative until the news press conference at 2...

Best thing to do is to wait until then to see what the police have to say.

[Simaahoy]

They referred the guy as a Man, so he wouldn't be a youth.

[ktan09]

Good. I hope they throw the book at this guy

[Simaahoy]

I wonder if its related to this old shootings.

Somali-Canadians caught in Alberta’s deadly drug trade (http://www.thestar.com/news/investigations/article/783534--somali-canadians-caught-in-alberta-s-deadly-drug-trade)

You are right, it is related to the gangs up in Edmonton and Fort. McMurrey and seems to have caught up to Toronto.

[_Allan_]

Joe Fiorito has some "testicular fortitude"
You two-bit thug. You thing. You it. You worse than the scum I scrape off my shoe.
You lousy s.o.b.
That’s the act of a sick boy, not a man. You’re not a bad- ***** , you’re a sad- ***** . And, if you have any brains, you’re scared.
If you had any guts, you’d turn yourself in today and save us all some time

[plymouthhater]

Bleeding Heart Joe will soon be changing his tune - especially if we find out both shooter and the deceased victim are residents of Public Housing and living on welfare.

I firmly expect his next column in the Toronto Star to be about "This is what happens when people in society feel alienated" &/or "This is what happens when people can't get by living on social assistance in public housing" &/or "It's (insert - Rob Ford or Harper)'s fault due to (insert - downloading of social service costs, cuts to welfare) &/or "the shooter was upset because he couldn't get a good night's sleep due to bed bug bites in his social housing apartment and had the city addressed the issue of bed bugs none of this would have happened."

[Drew87]

Joe Fiorito has some "testicular fortitude"
You two-bit thug. You thing. You it. You worse than the scum I scrape off my shoe.
You lousy s.o.b.
That’s the act of a sick boy, not a man. You’re not a bad- ***** , you’re a sad- ***** . And, if you have any brains, you’re scared.
If you had any guts, you’d turn yourself in today and save us all some time

huh??? did I miss something?

[edgedamage]

Bleeding Heart Joe will soon be changing his tune - especially if we find out both shooter and the deceased victim are residents of Public Housing and living on welfare.

I firmly expect his next column in the Toronto Star to be about "This is what happens when people in society feel alienated" &/or "This is what happens when people can't get by living on social assistance in public housing" &/or "It's (insert - Rob Ford or Harper)'s fault due to (insert - downloading of social service costs, cuts to welfare) &/or "the shooter was upset because he couldn't get a good night's sleep due to bed bug bites in his social housing apartment and had the city addressed the issue of bed bugs none of this would have happened."

Social housing should be cut when a person is convicted of a crime. Social housing is to help people get back on their feet.

[niroopg]

Social housing should be cut when a person is convicted of a crime. Social housing is to help people get back on their feet.

And then what? What do you think all those homeless people will do to get money for housing? Do you think they are just going to go lay down a die. Crime rate would go through the roof and the jailed population would rise. And guess what? Housing via jail is FAR more expensive than social housing. And in jail, that individual has no chance of societal productivity. At least in social housing, there is a chance (albeit, a low chance) of productivity. So which is cheaper on the general population as a whole?

[Simaahoy]

Christopher Husbands, has been named as the eatons shooting suspect.

[edgedamage]

And then what? What do you think all those homeless people will do to get money for housing? Do you think they are just going to go lay down a die. Crime rate would go through the roof and the jailed population would rise. And guess what? Housing via jail is FAR more expensive than social housing. And in jail, that individual has no chance of societal productivity. At least in social housing, there is a chance (albeit, a low chance) of productivity. So which is cheaper on the general population as a whole?

And then what? These *********s might think twice about doing crimes.

[manmanny]

Bleeding Heart Joe will soon be changing his tune - especially if we find out both shooter and the deceased victim are residents of Public Housing and living on welfare.

I firmly expect his next column in the Toronto Star to be about "This is what happens when people in society feel alienated" &/or "This is what happens when people can't get by living on social assistance in public housing" &/or "It's (insert - Rob Ford or Harper)'s fault due to (insert - downloading of social service costs, cuts to welfare) &/or "the shooter was upset because he couldn't get a good night's sleep due to bed bug bites in his social housing apartment and had the city addressed the issue of bed bugs none of this would have happened."

LOL you missed the editorial in Star.

Official party Toront Star has not missed the chance.

"What we don’t need is any more grandstanding from politicians on crime. After Creba’s death, the Conservative government used it as part of its argument for mandatory minimum sentences for more violent crimes. Shocking as the Eaton Centre incident is, there’s no evidence we need tougher laws or security measures to combat such tragic but rare events."

[45ED]

News conference coming up in a blink:

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/video/liveplayer

[_Allan_]

huh??? did I miss something?

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1205253--fiorito-eaton-centre-shooter-a-loser

[45ED]

On house arrest at the time of the shooting that barred him from leaving the place he was restricted to...that adds something.

Christopher Husbands, 23 years old...geez...

Edit 1: Even though people related to the case have gang ties, the lead investigator said that they "do not believe this to be a gang-motivated shooting...believe there are personal aspects involved".

Edit 2: One count of first degree murder and 6 counts of attempted murder.

[kindred_99]

The accused shooter was on house arrest and should not have been outside of his home. I guess those fancy ankle monitoring bracelets are only for TV shows. I can see the headlines now, maybe it takes something tragic like this to wake some people up about things like bail, repeat offenders, house arrest, etc.

[edgedamage]

The accused shooter was on house arrest and should not have been outside of his home. I guess those fancy ankle monitoring bracelets are only for TV shows. I can see the headlines now, maybe it takes something tragic like this to wake some people up about things like bail, repeat offenders, house arrest, etc.

Yah those things need built in tazers, go outside the set range and ZAP!

[kindred_99]

I wonder why they won't mention what he was under house arrest for. Many witnesses on news reports talked about a spray of bullets, as if they came from a machine gun but they haven't mentioned what type of gun.

[manmanny]

On house arrest at the time of the shooting that barred him from leaving the place he was restricted to...that adds something.

Christopher Husbands, 23 years old...geez...

Edit 1: Even though people related to the case have gang ties, the lead investigator said that they "do not believe this to be a gang-motivated shooting...believe there are personal aspects involved".
What?


The accused shooter was on house arrest and should not have been outside of his home. I guess those fancy ankle monitoring bracelets are only for TV shows. I can see the headlines now, maybe it takes something tragic like this to wake some people up about things like bail, repeat offenders, house arrest, etc.


again what?

[Psubs]

Yah those things need built in tazers, go outside the set range and ZAP!

Good idea. Maybe a 2 minute delay between zaps to give you time to recover and make it back into range.

[manmanny]

I wonder why they won't mention what he was under house arrest for. Many witnesses on news reports talked about a spray of bullets, as if they came from a machine gun but they haven't mentioned what type of gun.

Because somebody screwed up.
The secrecy since the beginning and not releasing details is not good.

[Drew87]

CityNews Toronto ‏@CityNews

Borg said in terms of assailants, it was one shooter, one gun. He wouldn't discuss a motive.
Expand

NEWSTALK1010 NEWSTALK1010 ‏@newstalk1010

BORG: We will not discuss the motive [of the shooter] today
Expand

CityNews Toronto CityNews Toronto ‏@CityNews

Borg said Toronto police are not looking for any other suspects in the Eaton Centre shooting. This was Toronto's 21st homicide.

CP24 CP24 ‏@CP24

Borg said he believes accused, deceased victim and 23yo critically injured vic were all in same gang, but shooting was not gang related.

CityNews Toronto CityNews Toronto ‏@CityNews

Det. Sgt. Brian Borg said the case is now before the courts and declined to provide details on the case, other than it's a targeted...

CP24 CP24 ‏@CP24

Borg: "I do not believe this is a gang-related homicide. I believe there are personal aspects involved."

[45ED]

What?

again what?

"I cannot comment on aspects of the investigation" - lead investigator.

What you read/hear is what you get.

Edit: Geez, the investigator said gang ties, not known gang members lady (to CityNews TVl)

Edit: Husbands father didn't want to be interviewed on camera but said to a CityNews reporter by phone that Husbands "was a good kid".

[Drew87]

NEWSTALK1010 ‏@newstalk1010

BORG: Christopher Husbands not linked to 2005 the boxing day shooting

CP24 CP24 ‏@CP24

Borg said police investigating if critically injured 23-y-o man was also targeted. Said Husbands was suspect before he turned himself in

[kindred_99]

Disclaimer, I am not being political here, but Ford just said that Toronto is the safest city in the world. As I mentioned yesterday nobody, cops, politicians, anyone should make these kind of claims regardless of party or politics. Say its a safe city, say its an isolated incident, say crime is going down but stop saying things like this is the safest city in the world. End disclaimer.

[Jungle]

No picture of this guy yet?

[45ED]

Disclaimer, I am not being political here, but Ford just said that Toronto is the safest city in the world. As I mentioned yesterday nobody, cops, politicians, anyone should make these kind of claims regardless of party or politics. Say its a safe city, say its an isolated incident, say crime is going down but stop saying things like this is the safest city in the world. End disclaimer.

This case has done, as similar ones did before, inflamed the worries of some locals and visitors alike. I think Ford was just doing a nice/right thing in telling people the Eatons Centre shooting was an isolated incident and to assure citizens and visitors alike how safe it is. In hindsight, he could've chosen better words at the press conference, but it's not a bad thing.

[Drew87]

Found these stories on citytv.ca - Informative

"The man who surrendered to police in connection with Saturday’s deadly Eaton Centre shooting is Christopher Husbands, 23, who came to Toronto from Guyana 12 years ago.

He will appear in Old City Hall court Monday afternoon, facing charges of first-degree murder and six counts of attempted murder.

CityNews has learned that Husbands was born in Guyana and came to Canada in 2000.

The shooting happened in the crowded mall food court around 6:20 p.m. Saturday, causing panicked shoppers to stampede toward the exit. Ahmed Hassan, 24, of Toronto, was killed instantly and seven others were injured —including a pregnant woman who was trampled as people fled the mall."

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/208635--suspect-in-eaton-centre-shooting-identified-as-christopher-husbands

[Drew87]

CP24 ‏@CP24

Members of public who had to leave their personal belongings behind at the Eaton Centre over the weekend can pick up property at 51 Division

If you know anyone who left stuff behind pass the message on

[45ED]

CP24 ‏@CP24

Members of public who had to leave their personal belongings behind at the Eaton Centre over the weekend can pick up property at 51 Division

If you know anyone who left stuff behind pass the message on

You also need to bring ID and/or proof that the stuff you left behind is indeed yours. Something to convince them.

Also, don't call ahead - just drop in. Unless you really can't pick your stuff up and need to make alternative arrangements.

[Drew87]

Here's some more information on the shooting

Toronto police have set up a page where people who witnessed the fatal shooting at the Eaton Centre — or its aftermath — can upload photos and video.

Click here to go to a Toronto police page where you can upload your files online.

Officers are also looking to speak to any witnesses who have not yet come forward.

The suspect, 23-year-old Christopher Husbands, accompanied by his lawyer, turned himself in to police at 52 Division early Monday morning.

Two people remain in hospital following Saturday's shooting: a 23-year-old man was shot in the neck and chest several times and remains in critical condition.

A 13-year-old boy who was visiting Toronto from Port Hope, Ont., with his family was shot in the head and has now been upgraded to stable condition from critical condition, school officials say.

Five other people, including a pregnant woman who was trampled as shoppers fled the mall, have been released from hospital.

[kindred_99]

I'm not sure if I heard correctly but did they say the shooter and the deceased victim/target were at the mall together? That would suggest that it might not have been planned but just someone that started shooting for whatever reason. It would make a bit more sense than someone tracking someone down in a mall and going there of all places to shoot them.

[_Allan_]

The man arrested over the gun rampage at the Toronto Eaton centre on Saturday was on house arrest at the time of the shooting, police said today.
http://news.nationalpost.com/category/posted-toronto/

[Drew87]

They have released the boys name who was shot

CityNews Toronto ‏@CityNews

#BREAKING: 13 yr old shot @ Eaton Centre ************. Family says "We are optimistic that he will recover." http://ow.ly/blTtY

CP24 ‏@CP24

Parents of 13-y-o victim release a statement: "After complicated neurosurgery, we are happy to say that he is doing well," (1/2)

CP24 ‏@CP24

(2/2)" He is alert and talking. It will be a long healing process, but we are optimistic that he will recover."

[gh05t]

Looks like Husbands is destined to be somebody's wife.

The question is how long will it take before this gets to trial, and how much time will he get.

Might have turned in himself to Police from fear of retaliation or unwanted conflict with the police.

In both cases he might have come out looking like a rice strainer.

His life is precious, but not the victim's.

As usual, every parents thinks their child is good especially when he commits a crime or dies at the hands of the Police.

Would be interesting to find out what the motive was.

These are the types of bad boys that turn the cranks of the young ladies these days btw.

[45ED]

The man arrested over the gun rampage at the Toronto Eaton centre on Saturday was on house arrest at the time of the shooting, police said today.
http://news.nationalpost.com/category/posted-toronto/

Some "happy" news from the article:


************, had been enjoying an afternoon going to a movie with his mom and older sister when they got caught up in the bloody food-court mayhem.

Doctors had removed a piece of his skull to relieve swelling and were keeping him in an induced coma as his parents ********, and other close family members maintained a bedside vigil.

“He has moved his arms and legs – that’s a good sign,” the relative, who asked not to be named said.

“As far as anything else, no one knows.”

---



Looks like Husbands is destined to be somebody's wife.

The question is how long will it take before this gets to trial, and how much time will he get.

Might have turned in himself to Police from fear of retaliation or unwanted conflict with the police.

In both cases he might have come out looking like a rice strainer.

His life is precious, but not the victim's.

As usual, every parents thinks their child is good especially when he commits a crime or dies at the hands of the Police.

Would be interesting to find out what the motive was.

These are the types of bad boys that turn the cranks of the young ladies these days btw.

This is easily going to take a year or more to get to trial, unless the guy agrees to all the charges (yeah, no).

[manmanny]

Some "happy" news from the article:



---




This is easily going to take a year or more to get to trial, unless the guy agrees to all the charges (yeah, no).

Good news.

I hope the kid mental scars dont last long.

[Drew87]

CTV Toronto ‏@CTVToronto

Christopher Husbands, man charged with Eaton Centre shootings, appearing in a Toronto court now.

[slinger99]

What happened was so scary. Can't imagine what those people in the food court were feeling. Will the Urban Shootery, I mean ... Eatery be open tomorrow?

[Drew87]

Toronto Star ‏@TorontoStar

The Toronto Star speaks to the father of the man charged after Saturday's #EatonCentreShooting. http://bit.ly/MblmDH

wow ...........

[konfusion666]

Did anyone find it odd that the father of the shooter expressed no sympathies for the victims? Let me read that article again...

Edit: Also, he seems to be more concerned with "rival" gangs going after HIM for retribution... seriously? Not a care in the world for the 13-year old bystander kid who had to have a portion of his skull removed??!

[Drew87]

Did anyone find it odd that the father of the shooter expressed no sympathies for the victims? Let me read that article again...

Well we really don't know what he said - maybe the writer decided to omit that part of the interview.

[45ED]

Did anyone find it odd that the father of the shooter expressed no sympathies for the victims? Let me read that article again...

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt that either, as drew87 suggested, sympathies were expressed but omitted in the course of writing the article for whatever reason or that the father was so shocked by the nature and suddenness of the events that he could only focus/think about what was familiar - that is, family.

[Drew87]

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt that either, as drew87 suggested, sympathies were expressed but omitted in the course of writing the article for whatever reason or that the father was so shocked by the nature and suddenness of the events that he could only focus/think about what was familiar - that is, family.

Plus - when fathers and mothers express sympathy towards the victim or comment on cases like this the public usually responds negatively....

"oh we don't believe you're sorry"
" you're just saying that to save face against backlash "


etc....It was even brought up earlier in this thread.

[x-factor]

This is a good day for justice. The Eaton Centre gunman and the Montreal dismembler both apprehended in the same day.

Laws are too lenient on sentencing though. If someone takes a life, especially in such a heinous way, at the bare minimum these demented lunatics should get locked away for life without any chance of parole.

[Corleone187]

Here is the 2012 homicide map. Looks like the safest place is Ajax which is surprising since that ***** guy is still on the loose there
http://www.thestar.com/news/GTA/crime/article/1134314

[mockingjay404]

LOL @ people trying to bring ***** into this thread

i guess they must really hate wasting time on RFD and feel like they need to get BANNED so they can get on with their normal lives :cheesygri

[qaz393]

Luka got caught and this guy surrenders. Crazy day for canada

[Nettles]

Really disheartening to hear about gangs in Canada being active in the first place and that it might go up with unemployment and social problems.

[DearSummer]

This is a good day for justice. The Eaton Centre gunman and the Montreal dismembler both apprehended in the same day.

Laws are too lenient on sentencing though. If someone takes a life, especially in such a heinous way, at the bare minimum these demented lunatics should get locked away for life without any chance of parole.

What is the purpose of the criminal justice system...to rehabiliate or to punish? As a taxpayer, I am glad that we don't have draconian laws that waste taxpayer money by locking people up long after they ceased to be a threat to society.

[CheeseDie]

Luka got caught and this guy surrenders. Crazy day for canada

Hey, perhaps these 2 should share a cell together.. unattended and see what happens 24 hours later...

[longitude]

Hey, perhaps these 2 should share a cell together.. unattended and see what happens 24 hours later...

there will be one left only... :twisted:

[iEyeCaptain]

there will be one left only... :twisted:

May the odds be forever in your favour?

[_Allan_]

JUST A REMINDER - all victims names are under court publication ban, including the name of the boy, even though his family released it earlier. If anyone here posts a name, they can be charged with obstruction.
Only Husbands and Hassans names are allowed in print.

[Abel4Life]

Really disheartening to hear about gangs in Canada being active in the first place and that it might go up with unemployment and social problems.

The police need to run with the information they have about these 'gangs' and literally go door to door to all affiliated with swat teams and recover all weapons, drugs, and make arrests as a result (teaching some gangsters a lesson at the same time). I remember they did a similiar effort after the 'year of the gun' in the GTA in the east end.

[CSK'sMom]

JUST A REMINDER - all victims names are under court publication ban, including the name of the boy, even though his family released it earlier. If anyone here posts a name, they can be charged with obstruction.
Only Husbands and Hassans names are allowed in print.

Thanks Allan. I think I removed them all, if you see any please report them or pm me and I will remove them too.

[edgedamage]

So now dad blames regent park as to why his son turned out the way he did. Sorry pop's it's your fault your son is that way. I happen to know way too many hard working people from regent park, who have good jobs and own homes. So don't blame your surroundings on your lack of good parenting.

[dealstime]

Thanks Allan. I think I removed them all, if you see any please report them or pm me and I will remove them too.

Just curious has anyone be charged for these social site offences? I remember the court banned election results and people were posting on twitter.

[ever1221]

Luka got caught and this guy surrenders. Crazy day for canada

and Canadian police was sleeping.

[longitude]

Obstruction... Ridiculous.

[45ED]

So now dad blames regent park as to why his son turned out the way he did. Sorry pop's it's your fault your son is that way. I happen to know way too many hard working people from regent park, who have good jobs and own homes. So don't blame your surroundings on your lack of good parenting.

He doesn't blame Regent Park but the gangs/"bad people" he fell under the influence of and socialized with.


“He was in and out of trouble,” Burchell Husbands said. “I tried to beg him to keep out of trouble.”

He dropped out of high school and started running with gangs in Regent Park, Husbands said — though he was not sure which gang.

Two months ago, Christopher Husbands survived what his father believed was a gang attack by six people when he was stabbed more than 20 times.

“We get along,” Husbands said of his relationship with his son. “He still comes around and visits.”

When asked what he’d want the public to know about his son, there was a long silence on the other end of the phone.

“He was a good guy coming up,” he said. “He was good.”

“Gang changed everything,” he said quietly.

[sandikosh]

This guy only has himself to blame. When things go wrong, blame yourself.

[Tornado F2]

He doesn't blame Regent Park but the gangs/"bad people" he fell under the influence of and socialized with.

Looks like the true blame falls on society when a father, realising his son is headed on a downward path, can only "beg him to keep out of trouble".

A bit of firm discipline in the past might have made a huge difference in this case. Now at least one person is dead and others are left to live with their wounds.

[manmanny]

He doesn't blame Regent Park but the gangs/"bad people" he fell under the influence of and socialized with.

"The father of the accused said Husbands, who has a five-year-old daughter with an ex-girlfriend, was born in Guyana and immigrated to Toronto in 2000."

"Burchell Husbands told the Toronto Star that gangs had destroyed his son's life."

[DearSummer]

Looks like the true blame falls on society when a father, realising his son is headed on a downward path, can only "beg him to keep out of trouble".

A bit of firm discipline in the past might have made a huge difference in this case. Now at least one person is dead and others are left to live with their wounds.

This type of thinking always makes me laugh. Maybe he was a bad parent, maybe he wasn't. Nobody will ever know. But to say that he just needed "a bit of firm discipline" is an absolute joke. Sorry, but how your mommy and daddy raised you in the burbs doesn't work in the hood.

[45ED]

Looks like the true blame falls on society when a father, realising his son is headed on a downward path, can only "beg him to keep out of trouble".

A bit of firm discipline in the past might have made a huge difference in this case. Now at least one person is dead and others are left to live with their wounds.

Society - or rather, those in positions of influence around him - might have not done a good enough job to guide him onto a better path (and I say that lightly).

However, society was not the one to tell him to pull the trigger. Nor did it insinuate that it was a good idea to do so or even that killing someone due to alleged "personal aspects" was appropriate.

[Tornado F2]

This type of thinking always makes me laugh. Maybe he was a bad parent, maybe he wasn't. Nobody will ever know. But to say that he just needed "a bit of firm discipline" is an absolute joke. Sorry, but how your mommy and daddy raised you in the burbs doesn't work in the hood.

I didn't need disciplining. I've always had self-discipline. Obviously not everybody does.

The father obviously needed to be able to do something more effective than "beg". After all, he had to counter the influence of gangs.

That said, it sounds like the son came to Canada as an adult. If that's the case then it's proof yet again that our immigration officials need to do a far better job of screening who they let in. We have our own home-grown lowlifes, like that body parts creep. We don't need to import anybody else's. If they look like potential gang material, with no useful skills/education/etc, leave them where they are, where they can't easily harm Canadians. We don't need to import unskilled labour anymore.

[45ED]

I didn't need disciplining. I've always had self-discipline. Obviously not everybody does.

The father obviously needed to be able to do something more effective than "beg". After all, he had to counter the influence of gangs.

That said, it sounds like the son came to Canada as an adult. If that's the case then it's proof yet again that our immigration officials need to do a far better job of screening who they let in. We have our own home-grown lowlifes, like that body parts creep. We don't need to import anybody else's. If they look like potential gang material, with no useful skills/education/etc, leave them where they are, where they can't easily harm Canadians. We don't need to import unskilled labour anymore.

He came to Canada in 2000.

He is now 23 (2012).

That means he came as a 11 year old (thereabouts).

[x-factor]

I don't agree with that. How can anyone determine when a crazed killer "ceases being a threat to society"? They should give up their rights to freedom permanently when they commit such atrocities. They consciously committed serious crimes and should be held accountable.

Lock them up and throw away the key. Would you feel comfortable with the likes of Bernardo, Col. Williams, or Rafferty roaming the streets and living as if nothing happened years from now if they are ever granted parole?

Criminals of that severity are only remorseful that they got caught, not for what they did. Think about how the victims and their families are affected by their actions.



What is the purpose of the criminal justice system...to rehabiliate or to punish? As a taxpayer, I am glad that we don't have draconian laws that waste taxpayer money by locking people up long after they ceased to be a threat to society.

[Tornado F2]

Society - or rather, those in positions of influence around him - might have not done a good enough job to guide him onto a better path (and I say that lightly).

However, society was not the one to tell him to pull the trigger. Nor did it insinuate that it was a good idea to do so or even that killing someone due to alleged "personal aspects" was appropriate.

I'm not saying that society was actually to blame for this. Just that society needs to allow parents more options in bringing up unruly kids. Not that this seems to be the case here. As we've just learned, he apparently came here as an adult.

[DearSummer]

I didn't need disciplining. I've always had self-discipline. Obviously not everybody does.

The father obviously needed to be able to do something more effective than "beg". After all, he had to counter the influence of gangs.

That said, it sounds like the son came to Canada as an adult. If that's the case then it's proof yet again that our immigration officials need to do a far better job of screening who they let in. We have our own home-grown lowlifes, like that body parts creep. We don't need to import anybody else's. If they look like potential gang material, with no useful skills/education/etc, leave them where they are, where they can't easily harm Canadians. We don't need to import unskilled labour anymore.

What exactly should the father have done? Are you a parent? Have you ever lived in the projects? Were you raised in a one-parent household? Are you a single-parent?

[DearSummer]

I don't agree with that. How can anyone determine when a crazed killer "ceases being a threat to society"? They should give up their rights to freedom permanently when they commit such atrocities. They consciously committed serious crimes and should be held accountable.

Lock them up and throw away the key. Would you feel comfortable with the likes of Bernardo, Col. Williams, or Rafferty roaming the streets and living as if nothing happened years from now if they are ever granted parole?

Criminals of that severity are only remorseful that they got caught not for what they did.

How many murderers are like Bernardo or Williams? They are the exception not the rule.

If this happened in the projects and no innocent bystanders were hurt it would hardly be a headline. Do you lock up somebody who commits any murder for their natural life? Where do you draw the line?

[Tornado F2]

He came to Canada in 2000.

He is now 23 (2012).

That means he came as a 11 year old (thereabouts).

I was just going off that "The father of the accused said Husbands, who has a five-year-old daughter with an ex-girlfriend, was born in Guyana and immigrated to Toronto in 2000" posted on the last page. This changes things. Obviously he came here as part of his father's family, and could have probably used some discipline as a teen once he started getting into trouble.

[Tornado F2]

How many murderers are like Bernardo or Williams? They are the exception not the rule.

If this happened in the projects and no innocent bystanders were hurt it would hardly be a headline. Do you lock up somebody who commits any murder for their natural life? Where do you draw the line?

Some murders are beyond any reasonable comprehension, like the body parts one. That's where the line should be drawn. Obviously killers like that aren't worth trying to reform. Likewise with mass-murderers and serial and child killers.

[Tornado F2]

What exactly should the father have done? Are you a parent? Have you ever lived in the projects? Were you raised in a one-parent household? Are you a single-parent?

An obvious solution - get the kid/young adult out of their negative environment, however you can. Move to another province if necessary.

[_Allan_]

Just curious has anyone be charged for these social site offences? I remember the court banned election results and people were posting on twitter.

That law was 'enacted' in 1938. It was repealed in January 2012.

[DearSummer]

An obvious solution - get the kid/young adult out of their negative environment, however you can. Move to another province if necessary.

Right, just move when you're poor enough to be living in Regent Park... :facepalm:

[DearSummer]

Some murders are beyond any reasonable comprehension, like the body parts one. That's where the line should be drawn. Obviously killers like that aren't worth trying to reform. Likewise with mass-murderers and serial and child killers.

So what is the line? "beyond reasonable comprehension"...what does that mean? Who decides?

[Tornado F2]

Right, just move when you're poor enough to be living in Regent Park... :facepalm:

So stay and let them become a gang banger murderer. :facepalm: There are a lot less expensive places to live than TO, and you should put your child's welfare first.


So what is the line? "beyond reasonable comprehension"...what does that mean? Who decides?

Obviously not people chatting on RFD. But eating a victim's flesh or desecrating their body would be an obvious start.

[edgedamage]

This type of thinking always makes me laugh. Maybe he was a bad parent, maybe he wasn't. Nobody will ever know. But to say that he just needed "a bit of firm discipline" is an absolute joke. Sorry, but how your mommy and daddy raised you in the burbs doesn't work in the hood.

Hood my arse piss poor excuse, my supervisor who I look up to and respect came from the hood. He was raised in a one parent family, grew up in regent park faced all the temptations of gangs and drugs. Has a great job and owns his own home. I asked him "how did you survive the hood" he said my mother ran the house with a iron fist. See how proper parenting works in the hood.

[Oscillator]

Right, just move when you're poor enough to be living in Regent Park... :facepalm:

What exactly should the father have done? Are you a parent? Have you ever lived in the projects? Were you raised in a one-parent household? Are you a single-parent?

This type of thinking always makes me laugh. Maybe he was a bad parent, maybe he wasn't. Nobody will ever know. But to say that he just needed "a bit of firm discipline" is an absolute joke. Sorry, but how your mommy and daddy raised you in the burbs doesn't work in the hood.

This is strange coming from you of all people, especially since you have espoused the Milton Friedman "philosophy" that if one is poor or born into a poor family, then it is their own fault. What's with the complete 180 turn on your beliefs? After all, if the son was a hard worker then he would have had the luxury of being born into a rich family in the suburbs, no?

And since when did DearSummer care about the hood or the projects? Or is this some elaborate attempt at trolling? Seriously. It is beyond me how you can care so much for scumbag gangsters, but take every chance at bringing down public-sector workers.

[DearSummer]

So stay and let them become a gang banger murderer. :facepalm: There are a lot less expensive places to live than TO, and you should put your child's welfare first.

Your line of thinking is typical of somebody who has never been poor or lived in a poor neighbourhood. If you have a job in Toronto, you think you can just get up and leave? If you are living in social housing, will it be available where you are moving? What about the rest of your family that lives in Toronto and you can't afford to ever visit? What about his wife and other kids? Do you think your son will automatically come with you? Will he be better off in the new environment? You don't know the situation so for you to be an armchair parent is an absolute joke.

[DearSummer]

Hood my arse piss poor excuse, my supervisor who I look up to and respect came from the hood. He was raised in a one parent family, grew up in regent park faced all the temptations of gangs and drugs. Has a great job and owns his own home. I asked him "how did you survive the hood" he said my mother ran the house with a iron fist. See how proper parenting works in the hood.

It's like how Jay-Z is from the hood but now he's rich and famous so everybody can do that to! :lol:

One example doesn't make it reality or easy. Not every kid is the same. Running a house with an iron fist works for some and not for others. It's also very hard in a single-parent house where the child is unsupervised much of the time.

[DearSummer]

This is strange coming from you of all people, especially since you have espoused the Milton Friedman "philosophy" that if one is poor or born into a poor family, then it is their own fault. What's with the complete 180 turn on your beliefs? After all, if the son was a hard worker then he would have had the luxury of being born into a rich family in the suburbs, no?

And since when did DearSummer care about the hood or the projects? Or is this some elaborate attempt at trolling? Seriously. It is beyond me how you can care so much for scumbag gangsters, but take every chance at bringing down public-sector workers.

Myself, nor Friendman, has ever said it's anybody's fault that they were born poor.

I was born poor myself. I empathize with the poor as much as anybody. I simply have different beliefs for the best ways to break the cycle of poverty.

I also never defended the criminal in this case. Not once. I simply defended his father who is being chastised for being a bad parent by people who have no clue what type of parent he was.

[Oscillator]

It's like how Jay-Z is from the hood but now he's rich and famous so everybody can do that to! :lol:

One example doesn't make it reality or easy. Not every kid is the same. Running a house with an iron fist works for some and not for others. It's also very hard in a single-parent house where the child is unsupervised much of the time.

I'm not sure if I read that right, and if I did, then it seems DearSummer's account has been hacked. Mods need to look into this. Sure hope we can get the old DearSummer who posts Milton Friedman videos of why poor people are scum back (not srs).

[manmanny]

Hood my arse piss poor excuse, my supervisor who I look up to and respect came from the hood. He was raised in a one parent family, grew up in regent park faced all the temptations of gangs and drugs. Has a great job and owns his own home. I asked him "how did you survive the hood" he said my mother ran the house with a iron fist. See how proper parenting works in the hood.


It's like how Jay-Z is from the hood but now he's rich and famous so everybody can do that to! :lol:

One example doesn't make it reality or easy. Not every kid is the same. Running a house with an iron fist works for some and not for others. It's also very hard in a single-parent house where the child is unsupervised much of the time.

I agree one example is not the rule.
I have seen Kids with great grades and great parents in school, gone downhill in first year of varsity.

[Tornado F2]

Your line of thinking is typical of somebody who has never been poor or lived in a poor neighbourhood. If you have a job in Toronto, you think you can just get up and leave? If you are living in social housing, will it be available where you are moving? What about the rest of your family that lives in Toronto and you can't afford to ever visit? What about his wife and other kids? Do you think your son will automatically come with you? Will he be better off in the new environment? You don't know the situation so for you to be an armchair parent is an absolute joke.

So stay and let them become a gang banger murderer. :facepalm: Just as I said before.

[jaysfan4life]

New immigrants/low income earners will always choose to live in Regent Park because you can get a 3 bedroom apartment or town home for $300/per month in the heart of Toronto. It's hard enough to be a visible minority in a new country. People tend to settle in the city. Some try everything to get out of that situation others choose not to.

[Tornado F2]

Myself, nor Friendman, has ever said it's anybody's fault that they were born poor.

I was born poor myself. I empathize with the poor as much as anybody. I simply have different beliefs for the best ways to break the cycle of poverty.


Hmm... so what's YOUR solution to all this then?

[DearSummer]

So stay and let them become a gang banger murderer. :facepalm: Just as I said before.

Because clearly that's what every kid who gets into trouble as a youth becomes...

[DearSummer]

Hmm... so what's YOUR solution to all this then?

Solution to what? People being poor?

[edgedamage]

It's like how Jay-Z is from the hood but now he's rich and famous so everybody can do that to! :lol:

One example doesn't make it reality or easy. Not every kid is the same. Running a house with an iron fist works for some and not for others. It's also very hard in a single-parent house where the child is unsupervised much of the time.

Sorry sunshine but you are wrong, I grew up close to social housing and a big chunk of my friends are from the hood. And only one is still living there all the other friends have good jobs or own their own small business. And over half of them never had a father anywhere to be seen.

[Oscillator]

Myself, nor Friendman, has ever said it's anybody's fault that they were born poor.

I was born poor myself. I empathize with the poor as much as anybody. I simply have different beliefs for the best ways to break the cycle of poverty.

I also never defended the criminal in this case. Not once. I simply defended his father who is being chastised for being a bad parent by people who have no clue what type of parent he was.

So I take it that you grew up in the "hood"? If you did, then how come you are successful today? If that environment is not conducive at all to one becoming a contributing member of society, then how did you as well as hundreds of others who continue to break the cycle do it? That is because you didn't blame the environment or your situation, even though it is very easy to. Sure, coming from a single parent household and living in a bad neighbourhood, but at the end of the day the blame is solely on those who rather chose "thug life" over becoming a productive member of society. And before you tell me to go back to the suburb, I grew up in one of the most dangerous areas in the T.O (Jane and Finch) so I at least have some experience to know what I'm talking about.

[DearSummer]

So I take it that you grew up in the "hood"? If you did, then how come you are successful today? If that environment is not conducive at all to one becoming a contributing member of society, then how did you as well as hundreds of others who continue to break the cycle do it? That is because you didn't blame the environment or your situation, even though it is very easy to. Sure, coming from a single parent household and living in a bad neighbourhood, but at the end of the day the blame is solely on those who rather chose "thug life" over becoming a productive member of society. And before you tell me to go back to the suburb, I grew up in one of the most dangerous areas in the T.O (Jane and Finch) so I at least have some experience to know what I'm talking about.

Again, where did I ever say that it wasn't the shooters fault? It was his fault. He is an adult and he is responsible for his actions. His father, however, is not responsible for the actions of his GROWN son.

[edgedamage]

Again, where did I ever say that it wasn't the shooters fault? It was his fault. He is an adult and he is responsible for his actions. His father, however, is not responsible for the actions of his GROWN son.

But his father witnessed his downhill slide, and his only solution was to blame the gangs?

PS. DearSummer I am not here to argue with you or anyone, but EVERYBODY has to stop blaming society for their failure to raise their children.

[Tornado F2]

Myself, nor Friendman, has ever said it's anybody's fault that they were born poor.

I was born poor myself. I empathize with the poor as much as anybody. I simply have different beliefs for the best ways to break the cycle of poverty.



Solution to what? People being poor?

^ That.

[Tornado F2]

New immigrants/low income earners will always choose to live in Regent Park because you can get a 3 bedroom apartment or town home for $300/per month in the heart of Toronto. It's hard enough to be a visible minority in a new country. People tend to settle in the city. Some try everything to get out of that situation others choose not to.

Time to raise some rents. Don't create a situation that results in a problem area.

[DearSummer]

^ That.

Capitalism, but that's for another thread that will undoubtedly get locked.

[Tornado F2]

Capitalism, but that's for another thread that will undoubtedly get locked.

"Capitalism", huh? Like drug dealing? Bet that's what the bangers would call it if they had enough education.

[masterhapposai]

Time to raise some rents. Don't create a situation that results in a problem area.

http://intobolivian.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/rent1.jpg

[mbg]

He doesn't blame Regent Park but the gangs/"bad people" he fell under the influence of and socialized with.

Would you ever meet a member of the "bad people" by talking to people, or would you only meet people who were wrongly influenced by them?

[manmanny]

Star

"Investigators believe Husbands, Hassan and a 23-year-old victim who remains in critical condition all had ties to the same gang. But they say Saturday's gunfire was the result of a personal beef.

The attack was not about gang business — “it's about anger and violence,” said Acting Deputy Chief Jeff McGuire."

And Globeand Mail

"A rift within an entrenched east-side Toronto gang and a chance encounter between feuding members were the trigger points of the deadly rampage at the downtown Eaton Centre Saturday night, police and public-housing sources say."

"Both the accused killer and his alleged victim had serious unresolved run-ins with the law. One was supposed to be under house arrest, the other was a fugitive."


and I say WTF is wrong with Star or journalism or TO Police?

[Shaner]

Your line of thinking is typical of somebody who has never been poor or lived in a poor neighbourhood. If you have a job in Toronto, you think you can just get up and leave? If you are living in social housing, will it be available where you are moving? What about the rest of your family that lives in Toronto and you can't afford to ever visit? What about his wife and other kids? Do you think your son will automatically come with you? Will he be better off in the new environment? You don't know the situation so for you to be an armchair parent is an absolute joke.

I grew up poor. I grew up in a one parent home and we had absolutely no money. We lived in a pretty crappy part of Toronto. You know what my mom did, she went back to school so she could get a better paying job. I'm sure it was hard on her as she had to raise kids, work and go to school, but in the end it was worth it. We moved away from Toronto and 18 years later she has a very large waterfront house and is very successful.

So yeah, someone can just up and move away from Regent Park if they are willing to put some hard work in. If a single mother of 3 can do it, why couldn't this guy? If anything, guys have more options as it's easier for them to get into various trades.

Stop making excuses for people. Everyone has options. Anyone who continues to raise kids in such a poor, volatile area, is doing their kids a disservice. He should have worked his ***** off to get out of the ghetto

[manmanny]

...
Everyone has options.
...
He should have worked his ***** off to get out of the ghetto
agree 100%.

[krash322]

Ok what am I missing here. Police says it's not gang related but the victim and shooter are in the same gang? So it's not one gang shooting another gang. But it's still a gang thing no matter how you put it.

[Shaner]

Ok what am I missing here. Police says it's not gang related but the victim and shooter are in the same gang? So it's not one gang shooting another gang. But it's still a gang thing no matter how you put it.

Could have just been a personal beef that had nothing to do with the fact that they were in a gang.

[manmanny]

Ok what am I missing here. Police says it's not gang related but the victim and shooter are in the same gang? So it's not one gang shooting another gang. But it's still a gang thing no matter how you put it.

Thats not what Star says.
"Royson James: Gang members don’t live by our codes" really James I didn't know that.
"Not surprisingly, the majority of the callers assumed the killer was black, likely Jamaican. They blamed the violence on a far too lenient justice system; absent fathers and poor parenting. And they advocated police lock up the criminals and throw away the key."
Sorry james we have no clue how to differentiate between Jamaican and Guyanese people.

Why don't the community solve their problem and dont bring their gang feuds out in malls or public square.
I am tired of hearing the community needs help, social housing, jobs and all other BS.
And James neither you have solution but just BS.

"Toronto is not a dangerous place — even if I’m hit by a stray bullet. Bad things happen downtown and uptown. There are gangs out there. Their members don’t live by our codes. Heavy sentences, video surveillance and the like seem to have little or no impact on these brazen butchers.

Another approach, understandable, maybe even defensible, hasn’t helped. It says, “As long as bad guys are killing bad guys, knock yourselves out.”

Problem with that approach is, bad guys don’t live on an island."

[manmanny]

Could have just been a personal beef that had nothing to do with the fact that they were in a gang.

Why your own gang attack you? May be this is not related to stabbing at all.
May be cops are just trying to calm the public by saying its personal.
"Two months ago, Husbands survived what his father believed was a gang attack by six people when he was stabbed more than 20 times."

[flashy_mcflash]

Sorry james we have no clue how to differentiate between Jamaican and Guyanese people.


Are you serious with this? What is wrong with you?

[manmanny]

"Christopher Husbands was a quiet, happy child growing up in Guyana, according to his father. “He was a good guy coming up,” Burchell Husbands says. "

So who is responsible to turn the happy kid in criminal? Certainly not Canada.

What is wrong with people posting/saying "You're talking about made up people. Mohammed, jesus, santa claus etc. They're just for pretend."

[manmanny]

globe and Mail is doing better job at getting facts.

"Before he died Saturday night, Mr. Hassan, too, appears to have had difficulties with the law.

A man matching his name and age was charged in 2008 in Fort McMurray, Alta., with extortion using a firearm, unlawful confinement, robbery with a firearm, assault with a weapon, assault, uttering threats, unlawful possession of a firearm and unlawful possession of a restricted firearm.

Those charges stem from an incident involving a man being confined and assaulted at an apartment.

How those charges were resolved is unclear, but two years later an Ahmed Hassan and five others were charged in Alberta with cocaine trafficking, among other things, and at the time of his death two arrest warrants were outstanding after he failed to appear in court.

Edmonton lawyer Gordon Collins would not say whether he had acted for Mr. Hassan, save to say: “I’m fully aware that he was the victim in the shooting, yes, I am aware of that.”"

[flashy_mcflash]

"Christopher Husbands was a quiet, happy child growing up in Guyana, according to his father. “He was a good guy coming up,” Burchell Husbands says. "

So who is responsible to turn the happy kid in criminal? Certainly not Canada.

What is wrong with people posting/saying "You're talking about made up people. Mohammed, jesus, santa claus etc. They're just for pretend."

You posted something incredibly racist.

[45ED]

You posted something incredibly racist.

Which part -- the second line? If he's implying country/culture of origin as the root of the shooter's problems, that would be prejudice or bias, not racist.

[manmanny]

...
He should have worked his ***** off to get out of the ghetto

I dont know if Dwight was poor or not. But he grew up in Jane/Finch.
Loos like he worked hard turned out quite a good Canadian.

"Drummond was raised in Toronto's Jane and Finch neighbourhood. He attended high school at Runnymede Collegiate Institute, and is a graduate of the Radio and Television Arts program at Ryerson University."

If you work hard and have a will you can be something other than gang member. And be a statistic like the topic.

[flashy_mcflash]

Which part -- the second line? If he's implying country/culture of origin as the root of the shooter's problems, that would be prejudice or bias, not racist.

That he can't tell the difference between Jamaican and Guyanese people.

[manmanny]

Which part -- the second line? If he's implying country/culture of origin as the root of the shooter's problems, that would be prejudice or bias, not racist.

Dont bother. He is attacking me because of my poor education for long time. Its not the first time he has done that and derailed the thread.
He has no valid argument other than name calling, you are idiot, what is wrong with you, you uneducated Manuel.

His argument clearly shows he is educated fail, his up bringing and his anger and other issues.
But with new rules I can not attack him as I will be banned.

As per the main subject I like how Globe and Mail is reporting.
They are getting the fact and not opinions like Toronto Star.

[45ED]

That he can't tell the difference between Jamaican and Guyanese people.

Oh, the other post - I see. I thought it was in reference to the one you quoted.

[edgedamage]

Quote from the globe:
"A rift within an entrenched east-side Toronto gang and a chance encounter between feuding members were the trigger points of the deadly rampage at the downtown Eaton Centre Saturday night, police and public-housing sources say."
SO let me get this straight, he was on house arrest and was out in public carrying a gun?? Quote: "Husbands was released under strict house arrest to two sureties who posted $4,000 bail following that charge." The sureties should also be charged with accessory to murder, they posted bail and were in charge of him.

[manmanny]

Quote from the globe:
"A rift within an entrenched east-side Toronto gang and a chance encounter between feuding members were the trigger points of the deadly rampage at the downtown Eaton Centre Saturday night, police and public-housing sources say."
SO let me get this straight, he was on house arrest and was out in public carrying a gun?? Quote: "Husbands was released under strict house arrest to two sureties who posted $4,000 bail following that charge." The sureties should also be charged with accessory to murder, they posted bail and were in charge of him.

Dont know about that but there should be some sort of punishment for sureties. And the other guy was Fugitive.

[nauru]

Quote from the globe:
"A rift within an entrenched east-side Toronto gang and a chance encounter between feuding members were the trigger points of the deadly rampage at the downtown Eaton Centre Saturday night, police and public-housing sources say."
SO let me get this straight, he was on house arrest and was out in public carrying a gun?? Quote: "Husbands was released under strict house arrest to two sureties who posted $4,000 bail following that charge." The sureties should also be charged with accessory to murder, they posted bail and were in charge of him.

$4000 is next to nothing...

[45ED]

Dont know about that but there should be some sort of punishment for sureties. And the other guy was Fugitive.

Wouldn't the punishment be restricted to the money put up for bail? Unless they actively helped the guy in breaking house arrest or even during/just after the shootings (in an attempt to help him escape or whatever) I'm not sure what punishment could possibly be meted out.

[appleb]

Wouldn't the punishment be restricted to the money put up for bail? Unless they actively helped the guy in breaking house arrest or even during/just after the shootings (in an attempt to help him escape or whatever) I'm not sure what punishment could possibly be meted out.

Probably a harshly worded snail mail letter.

[xXxRasxXx]

Well,
may this be a lesson to any current gang members or people that glorify them.. in the end they all still up in the gutter.

[manmanny]

Wouldn't the punishment be restricted to the money put up for bail? Unless they actively helped the guy in breaking house arrest or even during/just after the shootings (in an attempt to help him escape or whatever) I'm not sure what punishment could possibly be meted out.
If parents are punished for kids shop lifting then why not here. As I said before some sort of punishment but not this:arrowd:

Probably a harshly worded snail mail letter.

[manmanny]

Well,
may this be a lesson to any current gang members or people that glorify them.. in the end they all still up in the gutter.
we dont have problem with that. You live and die by the guns. But don't kill innocent people.

[45ED]

If parents are punished for kids shop lifting then why not here. As I said before some sort of punishment but not this:arrowd:

Because the shooter is an adult whereas kids are largely under the auspices of their legal guardians.

[Tornado F2]

Quote from the globe:
"A rift within an entrenched east-side Toronto gang and a chance encounter between feuding members were the trigger points of the deadly rampage at the downtown Eaton Centre Saturday night, police and public-housing sources say."
SO let me get this straight, he was on house arrest and was out in public carrying a gun?? Quote: "Husbands was released under strict house arrest to two sureties who posted $4,000 bail following that charge." The sureties should also be charged with accessory to murder, they posted bail and were in charge of him.

Whatever happened to ankle bracelets? Did they run out of them?

[manmanny]

Because the shooter is an adult whereas kids are largely under the auspices of their legal guardians.
So you are saying edgedamage was right.


So now dad blames regent park as to why his son turned out the way he did. Sorry pop's it's your fault your son is that way. I happen to know way too many hard working people from regent park, who have good jobs and own homes. So don't blame your surroundings on your lack of good parenting.


He doesn't blame Regent Park but the gangs/"bad people" he fell under the influence of and socialized with.

And I still say even if you are from good family kids do dumb things. Not again again but They just do and parents are held liable.
The way you say there is no consequences for sureties, as both are adults. They exactly knew what they are doing is wrong and violation of bail.
So why not charge them with accessory to murder as one poster edgedamage suggested.

[manmanny]

Whatever happened to ankle bracelets? Did they run out of them?

cost cutting may be or was not important.

[45ED]

So you are saying edgedamage was right.

And I still say even if you are from good family kids do dumb things. Not again again but They just do and parents are held liable.
The way you say there is no consequences for sureties, as both are adults. They exactly knew what they are doing is wrong and violation of bail.
So why not charge them with accessory to murder as one poster suggested.

That first quote - "bad influences" - was itself referencing what the father said in the Star article.

As for the second, more recent post - I believe that at some point (during one's adulthood), the responsibility born by one's action is less bore by the parents or whoever was raising the individual and more onto the individual's shoulders.

One of the things I know, and is subject to change should something make it change, is that if you know (of) better but you don't do or try to choose to do better, you can't keep blaming past actions for current decisions.

[Tornado F2]

Sorry james we have no clue how to differentiate between Jamaican and Guyanese people.


While most people on the street likely can't, especially when the person is of African descent, there is definitely a difference in the ethnic makeup of the two countries. Jamaicans are mostly descended from Africans, while Guyanese are more ethnically diverse, with many coming from an East Indian background, arriving in several waves of migration. There will also be noticeably different dialects.


Jamaica:

Ethnic origins

According to the 2001 census, the majority of Jamaica's population is of African descent


Guyana:

Ethnic groups (2002)

East Indian 43.5%
Black (African) 30.2%
Mixed 16.7%
Amerindian 9.1%
Other 0.5%[2][3]

[manmanny]

That first quote - "bad influences" - was itself referencing what the father said.

Nice save/dodge. Was father "bad influences" or responsible?

[Tornado F2]

cost cutting may be or was not important.

Wouldn't that be ironic.

[45ED]

Nice save/dodge. Was father "bad influences" or responsible?

There a reason why you're attempting to establish my position in a picking-a-fight manner when all I did was paraphrased/referred to what was in the article?

That post was a factual correction to what edgedamage wrote. You know, that part where he says the father blamed Regent Park? The article does not state that the father blames Regent Park. Rather, it quotes the father as saying, among other similar things, "“Gang changed everything[.]”

[Xpwmata]

Career criminals running amok? Who would have thought? /sarcasm

[MissMalfoy]

Whatever happened to ankle bracelets? Did they run out of them?

My friend's boyfriend was on house arrest at point and he came and went as he pleased. I guess they don't really do a lot to make sure people are actually staying in their houses.

[Simaahoy]

The father said that he tried to bring him back to the right path but the kid choose to be a gang-banger and had no choice to leave him alone. The shooter was not living with his father so why place the blame on him?

Anyways this wasn't a gang related shooting as they were members of the same gang and some sort of personal fight.



These people are committing crimes because they grew up in low-income housing projects. Growing up poor though is not an excuse to not get an education and following the rules. The ethnicity has nothing to do with this, as two people cannot be use to judge their backgrounds.


By the way if the victim was a fugitive then why didn't police track him down? he was hanging out in the busiest malls in Ontario LOL.




But a public-housing official familiar with the Sic Thugs gang, based in the Regent Park public-housing complex, said the catalyst was an alleged stabbing incident in an empty apartment on Feb. 28 in which Mr. Hassan and several others allegedly bound Mr. Husbands with duct tape, stabbed him multiple times and robbed him of $450.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/article4231218.ece



Well...no wonder.

[manmanny]

By the way if the victim was a fugitive then why didn't police track him down? he was hanging out in the busiest malls in Ontario LOL.

I was wondering he same. But I dont think anybody from any department was looking for him.
The tendency of cops have changed. They dont want to do anything unless "cooperation from public", 222-tips.

[Tornado F2]

The father said that he tried to bring him back to the right path but the kid choose to be a gang-banger and had no choice to leave him alone. The shooter was not living with his father so why place the blame on him?

Anyways this wasn't a gang related shooting as they were members of the same gang and some sort of personal fight.



These people are committing crimes because they grew up in low-income housing projects. They might be poor and went into the drug dealing business to make money. Growing up poor though is not an excuse to not get an education and following the rules. The ethnicity has nothing to do with this, as two people cannot be use to judge their backgrounds.


By the way if the victim was a fugitive then why didn't police track him down? he was hanging out in the busiest malls in Ontario LOL.

So many conflicting statements within that one post. :lol:

[Tornado F2]

I was wondering he same. But I dont think anybody from any department was looking for him.
The tendency of cops have changed. They dont want to do anything unless "cooperation from public", 222-tips.

Where are Canada's police cadets? Must the cadets do everything? :lol:

Ironically enough, the Police Academy movies were filmed in Toronto.

[manmanny]

Where are Canada's police cadets? Must the cadets do everything? :lol:

Ironically enough, the Police Academy movies were filmed in Toronto.

lol. They work at CTV or Global I guess. Many are products of CTV. The new one is Global.

[manmanny]

So with so many charges City gave him job. May be they did not know about this.

From Toronto Star.

Husbands, who turned himself in to police on Monday, worked for the centre’s after-school program — described by the City of Toronto as “safe, affordable child care for children ages six to 12” — for about six months until May 18.

The 23-year-old has faced numerous charges since moving out of his family’s Regent Park home on his 18th birthday, his father said.

At the time of the shooting, Husbands was out on $4,000 bail and under house arrest for an outstanding 2010 sex assault charge.

[appleb]

So much blame in the wrong places for this.

Female relative was on tv yesterday complaining the police are making the suspect look too much like a criminal.

Politician saying there aren't enough services/programs to help integrate immigrants.

Suspect was part of some after school program anyway, and yeah, that sure helped steer him off crime.

Why not just say this guy is a loser criminal for spraying off bullets in a public place. No need to shift blame anywhere else.

[mockingjay404]

So much blame in the wrong places for this.

Female relative was on tv yesterday complaining the police are making the suspect look too much like a criminal.

Politician saying there aren't enough services/programs to help integrate immigrants.

Suspect was part of some after school program anyway, and yeah, that sure helped steer him off crime.

Why not just say this guy is a loser criminal for spraying off bullets in a public place. No need to shift blame anywhere else.

+1

nobody seems to care that he had a part-time job at a daycare even tho he had a r.ape charge from 2010!
wtf!

time for rob ford to step up and change hiring policy at all City Agencies

[manmanny]

So much blame in the wrong places for this.

Female relative was on tv yesterday complaining the police are making the suspect look too much like a criminal.

Politician saying there aren't enough services/programs to help integrate immigrants.

Suspect was part of some after school program anyway, and yeah, that sure helped steer him off crime.

Why not just say this guy is a loser criminal for spraying off bullets in a public place. No need to shift blame anywhere else.

May the guy did try to get out. But we dont know that.
Now its proven he has habit of going off and will pay the price.

[Shaner]

So much blame in the wrong places for this.

Female relative was on tv yesterday complaining the police are making the suspect look too much like a criminal.

Politician saying there aren't enough services/programs to help integrate immigrants.

Suspect was part of some after school program anyway, and yeah, that sure helped steer him off crime.

Why not just say this guy is a loser criminal for spraying off bullets in a public place. No need to shift blame anywhere else.

Agreed, but parents also need to take responsibility for raising their kids in poor, crime ridden areas. When kids are raised in such a neighbourhood, the chances of them either falling victim to crime or getting caught up in crime themselves significantly increases. Raising a kid in regent park is irresponsible. Everyone has options if they're willing to work hard enough to get themselves out of a crappy situation.

[longitude]

Hi Shaner,

Looking forward to receiving this new guest? :D

[diggler649]

Agreed, but parents also need to take responsibility for raising their kids in poor, crime ridden areas. When kids are raised in such a neighbourhood, the chances of them either falling victim to crime or getting caught up in crime themselves significantly increases. Raising a kid in regent park is irresponsible. Everyone has options if they're willing to work hard enough to get themselves out of a crappy situation.

Not if you're Somalian. Not much demand for RPG and AK-47 specialists who are high on Khat.

[cheapgeek]

+1

nobody seems to care that he had a part-time job at a daycare even tho he had a r.ape charge from 2010!
Wtf!

Time for rob ford to step up and change hiring policy at all city agencies

this

[manmanny]

+1

nobody seems to care that he had a part-time job at a daycare even tho he had a r.ape charge from 2010!
wtf!

time for rob ford to step up and change hiring policy at all City Agencies
CityNews stream just showed that the check will be finished before confirming the hire.
I was about to post city officials had press conference about that. They are investigating that.
Too late City.

"This situation is deeply troubling to us all. We are offering staff, participants and their families access to counselling and support services," city manager Joe Pennachetti said in a statement. "We are conducting a thorough investigation and a comprehensive policy review to improve hiring procedures in Parks, Forestry and Recreation."

[Simaahoy]

Wow, he worked for the city despite his background, there should be public outrage.

The guy stopped working mind you in May 2012, and he was on house arrest also.

[starkiller2010]

So much blame in the wrong places for this.

Female relative was on tv yesterday complaining the police are making the suspect look too much like a criminal.

Politician saying there aren't enough services/programs to help integrate immigrants.

Suspect was part of some after school program anyway, and yeah, that sure helped steer him off crime.

Why not just say this guy is a loser criminal for spraying off bullets in a public place. No need to shift blame anywhere else.

This is exactly what is wrong with our society. Too many interests groups trying to play the victim card. The guy just shot up a public mall and hurt innocent bystanders. He was responsible for that; no need to blame the system.

[manmanny]

Wow, he worked for the city despite his background, there should be public outrage.

The guy stopped working mind you in May 2012, and he was on house arrest also.

Yes the system is the problem.:razz: The guy was getting turning his life around.
If it wasn't the house arrest he would be working at P&R centre and none of this would have happened.
So who is responsible for this. The Gun, TThe guy who gave him gun, he dead guy made him angry, the guy who drove him there. add here.:facepalm:

[manmanny]

Toronto Star Podcast. Now this is how its played in biased newspapers.

"Why are we laying off youth workers who help keep kids out of gangs?"

[bromance]

That he can't tell the difference between Jamaican and Guyanese people.

Also add that the suspect is brown not black which makes it even more funny

[BornRuff]

So with so many charges City gave him job. May be they did not know about this.

From Toronto Star.

Husbands, who turned himself in to police on Monday, worked for the centre’s after-school program — described by the City of Toronto as “safe, affordable child care for children ages six to 12” — for about six months until May 18.

The 23-year-old has faced numerous charges since moving out of his family’s Regent Park home on his 18th birthday, his father said.

At the time of the shooting, Husbands was out on $4,000 bail and under house arrest for an outstanding 2010 sex assault charge.

This really isn't unique to Parks and Rec. The practice of allowing people to work before their record check is complete is common across many organizations. The fact is that the process simply takes too long. It is incredibly hard to run any program when you have to wait months for a new employee to be approved. More efficient screening is was is really needed.

[Shaner]

This really isn't unique to Parks and Rec. The practice of allowing people to work before their record check is complete is common across many organizations. The fact is that the process simply takes too long. It is incredibly hard to run any program when you have to wait months for a new employee to be approved. More efficient screening is was is really needed.

Agreed. I was applying for something a few months ago that required a CPIC check. I waited well over 4 weeks to hear back. That's way too long.

[Justin]

Watch out Ontario......
http://www.leaderpost.com/news/charged+after+fatal+Saskatoon+shooting+granted+bai l+live+Ontario/6746429/story.html

[nauru]

What's with these ridiculously low bail numbers? $500 is a pittance.

[Jimboski]

Also add that the suspect is brown not black which makes it even more funny

He's brown?

[olevia 747i]

RIP.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/1209713--eaton-centre-shooting-second-victim-dies#article

[kingrukus]

RIP.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/1209713--eaton-centre-shooting-second-victim-dies#article


Ah, another thug gets what they deserved. One less waste of oxygen on the streets.

[masterhapposai]

RIP.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/1209713--eaton-centre-shooting-second-victim-dies#article

live by the sword die by the sword

the attack was revenge against those guys that tried to kill him it seems:
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/1207137--eaton-centre-shooting-i-really-wanted-him-to-live-recalls-the-man-who-helped-a-dying-christopher-husbands-one-cold-night-in-february

[masterhapposai]

Ah, another thug gets what they deserved. One less waste of oxygen on the streets.

cops coming for the rest of them now:
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/1206511--police-to-crack-down-on-gangs-following-eaton-centre-shooting

I knew that would happen. If you're a wannabe gangsta, never ever harm an innocent or shoot in a public place. The beat downs coming to them is going to make their life hell.

Same stuff happened after the last public shooting. They clearly have low IQ and enjoy getting a major crackdown.

[DearSummer]

cops coming for the rest of them now:
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/1206511--police-to-crack-down-on-gangs-following-eaton-centre-shooting

I knew that would happen. If you're a wannabe gangsta, never ever harm an innocent or shoot in a public place. The beat downs coming to them is going to make their life hell.

Same stuff happened after the last public shooting. They clearly have low IQ and enjoy getting a major crackdown.

It's not a problem worth dealing with until middle-class people are effected. :(

Yet another band-aid solution that won't fix a thing. The game is the game, the players just change.

[stuntman]

It's not a problem worth dealing with until middle-class people are effected. :(

Yet another band-aid solution that won't fix a thing. The game is the game, the players just change.

Is that from the HBO series "The Wire"?

[masterhapposai]

It's not a problem worth dealing with until middle-class people are effected. :(

Yet another band-aid solution that won't fix a thing. The game is the game, the players just change.

Yeah well I grew up in an area that was full of these types of games. And you know what, some of us just said no.

They gotta man up.

[Oscillator]

Agreed, but parents also need to take responsibility for raising their kids in poor, crime ridden areas. When kids are raised in such a neighbourhood, the chances of them either falling victim to crime or getting caught up in crime themselves significantly increases. Raising a kid in regent park is irresponsible. Everyone has options if they're willing to work hard enough to get themselves out of a crappy situation.

Yes, because if you're living on minimum wage and a single-parent while barely getting by to feed and clothe your kids, just putting in overtime will net you the income required to live in a nice suburb with picket fences and low crime-rate. :facepalm:

[trixstar]

well i was born and raised in regent park for 14 years.. What's the big deal? I'm not poor, i don't sell drugs or own a gun of any sort. When my parent's came to canada, they were broke so they had to start somewhere. It's not fair to say that being raised in regent park is irresponsible. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do to get by and then move out asap when you have the chance to

[WildWolf]

well i was born and raised in regent park for 14 years.. What's the big deal? I'm not poor, i don't sell drugs or own a gun of any sort. When my parent's came to canada, they were broke so they had to start somewhere. It's not fair to say that being raised in regent park is irresponsible. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do to get by and then move out asap when you have the chance to

You make a point, although regent park was never a good area this dating back over 30+ years, now this has spread far and vast. Where do you live now ?

[Shaner]

Yes, because if you're living on minimum wage and a single-parent while barely getting by to feed and clothe your kids, just putting in overtime will net you the income required to live in a nice suburb with picket fences and low crime-rate. :facepalm:

You do what you have to do to improve your situation, including finding a way to go back to school so you can get a higher paying job. It's doable, because many people have done it.

[flashy_mcflash]

You do what you have to do to improve your situation, including finding a way to go back to school so you can get a higher paying job. It's doable, because many people have done it.

And many haven't. Just because it works for some people doesn't mean that EVERYONE can do it. You are generalizing about people's lives about which you have ZERO insight. Maybe you grew up poor or maybe you know some poor people who escaped poverty - we all do - but that doesn't mean you know a single goddamn thing about the people who can't.

[Shaner]

And many haven't. Just because it works for some people doesn't mean that EVERYONE can do it. You are generalizing about people's lives about which you have ZERO insight. Maybe you grew up poor or maybe you know some poor people who escaped poverty - we all do - but that doesn't mean you know a single goddamn thing about the people who can't.

Unless they have mental health issues holding them back, everyone has the ability to escape poverty if they're willing to work hard enough. If a single mother of 3 kids can do it, anyone can.

[flashy_mcflash]

Unless they have mental health issues holding them back, everyone has the ability to escape poverty if they're willing to work hard enough. If a single mother of 3 kids can do it, anyone can.

It's a nice idea but lots of people are willing to work hard enough, and do, while remaining in poverty. Your insinuation that all the people living in poverty now are simply lazy is pure crap and you know it.

[trixstar]

You make a point, although regent park was never a good area this dating back over 30+ years, now this has spread far and vast. Where do you live now ?

markham and downtown toronto

[Shaner]

It's a nice idea but lots of people are willing to work hard enough, and do, while remaining in poverty. Your insinuation that all the people living in poverty now are simply lazy is pure crap and you know it.

While there aren't enough high paying jobs out there for everyone, there's enough jobs out there that at the very least people can afford to move into a much better area then regent park. It may require going back to school for a lot of people who live in poverty, but that's something they should do. Most won't though.

[hdave]

There are tons of kids that end up growing up just fine and getting out of the ghetto.
I strongly believe it is mostly in the parents.
I know some kids who had bad families, bad friends, bad everything, but the fact that their parents were strict is what kept them in line.
Obviously this is different for every case, but I think the parents are the most important thing.

Hell even when I was growing up (in Rexdale,) I was never scared of getting in trouble from school, the only thing I was scared of is getting in trouble at home.

[45ED]

There are tons of kids that end up growing up just fine and getting out of the ghetto.
I strongly believe it is mostly in the parents.
I know some kids who had bad families, bad friends, bad everything, but the fact that their parents were strict is what kept them in line.
Obviously this is different for every case, but I think the parents are the most important thing.

Hell even when I was growing up (in Rexdale,) I was never scared of getting in trouble from school, the only thing I was scared of is getting in trouble at home.

I would go a step further (take a step back?) in suggesting rather than parents, a strong positive influential person(s)/role model(s) can help keep a child "in line". That person can be anything - a parent(s), a teacher, a neighbour, an older relative, etc.. Just having strict parents isn't going to help - after all, some pretty nasty criminals/people come from childhood with strict/controlling parenting.

[manmanny]

This really isn't unique to Parks and Rec. The practice of allowing people to work before their record check is complete is common across many organizations. The fact is that the process simply takes too long. It is incredibly hard to run any program when you have to wait months for a new employee to be approved. More efficient screening is was is really needed.

I agree. It should be much much better.


http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/1209713--eaton-centre-shooting-second-victim-dies?bn=1
people should not rejoice the guy is dead just because he is thug.
Now to other things.

I fail to understand how you can recognize if anybody is from which country, Jamica or other, unless you talk to them and spend time with/around them.
Its is stupid stupid accusation of racism by stupid ( posters knows everything, educated fail) poster.

"Nirmalendran, 22, was gunned down along with Ahmed Hassan, 24,"
"The alleged shooter, 23-year-old Christopher Husbands, is currently charged with one count of first-degree murder, for Hassan’s death, and six counts of attempted murder."

"Nirmalendran was one credit short of his high school diploma and was about to reapply to Centennial College’s Child and Youth Program, "
"In the past five years, Nirmalendran was in and out of jail."
"Nirmalendran appeared to be involved in dealing drugs from his Regent Park residence, where he lived with his mother, father and two younger brothers. However, Assie, his lawyer, said there was never any evidence to suggest Nirmalendran was a member of the Sic Thugs gang, or any other gang."

And I agree and have same opinion about parents "are not responsible" for everything kids do or their trouble. Friends are as much influence as parents in teen years.

[manmanny]

I would go a step further (take a step back?) in suggesting rather than parents, a strong positive influential person(s)/role model(s) can help keep a child "in line". That person can be anything - a parent(s), a teacher, a neighbour, an older relative, etc.. Just having strict parents isn't going to help - after all, some pretty nasty criminals/people come from childhood with strict/controlling parenting.

100% true.

[jp06]

I agree. It should be much much better.


http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/1209713--eaton-centre-shooting-second-victim-dies?bn=1
people should not rejoice the guy is dead just because he is thug.
Now to other things.

I fail to understand how you can recognize if anybody is from which country, Jamica or other, unless you talk to them and spend time with/around them.
Its is stupid stupid accusation of racism by stupid ( posters knows everything, educated fail) poster.

"Nirmalendran, 22, was gunned down along with Ahmed Hassan, 24,"
"The alleged shooter, 23-year-old Christopher Husbands, is currently charged with one count of first-degree murder, for Hassan’s death, and six counts of attempted murder."

"Nirmalendran was one credit short of his high school diploma and was about to reapply to Centennial College’s Child and Youth Program, "
"In the past five years, Nirmalendran was in and out of jail."
"Nirmalendran appeared to be involved in dealing drugs from his Regent Park residence, where he lived with his mother, father and two younger brothers. However, Assie, his lawyer, said there was never any evidence to suggest Nirmalendran was a member of the Sic Thugs gang, or any other gang."

And I agree and have same opinion about parents "are not responsible" for everything kids do or their trouble. Friends are as much influence as parents in teen years.




LMAO, the usual "good boy" image. They need to stop reporting such useless info in these news articles. They should just report the story, what happened, who was involved, and that's it. Nobody gives a rats ***** about what he was supposedly doing education-wise because that's all a cover-up.

[Simaahoy]

LMAO, the usual "good boy" image. They need to stop reporting such useless info in these news articles. They should just report the story, what happened, who was involved, and that's it. Nobody gives a rats ***** about what he was supposedly doing education-wise because that's all a cover-up.


I agree. It should be much much better.


http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/1209713--eaton-centre-shooting-second-victim-dies?bn=1
people should not rejoice the guy is dead just because he is thug.
Now to other things.

I fail to understand how you can recognize if anybody is from which country, Jamica or other, unless you talk to them and spend time with/around them.
Its is stupid stupid accusation of racism by stupid ( posters knows everything, educated fail) poster.

"Nirmalendran, 22, was gunned down along with Ahmed Hassan, 24,"
"The alleged shooter, 23-year-old Christopher Husbands, is currently charged with one count of first-degree murder, for Hassan’s death, and six counts of attempted murder."

"Nirmalendran was one credit short of his high school diploma and was about to reapply to Centennial College’s Child and Youth Program, "
"In the past five years, Nirmalendran was in and out of jail."
"Nirmalendran appeared to be involved in dealing drugs from his Regent Park residence, where he lived with his mother, father and two younger brothers. However, Assie, his lawyer, said there was never any evidence to suggest Nirmalendran was a member of the Sic Thugs gang, or any other gang."

And I agree and have same opinion about parents "are not responsible" for everything kids do or their trouble. Friends are as much influence as parents in teen years.

They need to realize they aren't the same innocent children they used to be. It bothers me, that they pretend that he isn't a gangster, when he clearly was. One of the guys shot down, lost his mother at a young age and I suspect his father, was not there for him. Just to answer 'where the parents are at" questions.

[DearSummer]

Unless they have mental health issues holding them back, everyone has the ability to escape poverty if they're willing to work hard enough. If a single mother of 3 kids can do it, anyone can.

Did you grow up in a single or no parent home household? Did you move every few months? Did your electricity or heat get cut off? Did you ever wonder where your next meal was coming from? Did you get assaulted by gangs growing up? Were your parents drug-addicts, career criminals, dead, or in prison? Were the only financially-independent people in your neighbourhood criminals? Were you a victim of abuse by your own family? Were you ostracized by society and police from a young age?

You don't understand the impact of growing up in these tough environments. It's not simply about money.

[Shaner]

Did you grow up in a single or no parent home household? Did you move every few months? Did your electricity or heat get cut off? Did you ever wonder where your next meal was coming from? Did you get assaulted by gangs growing up? Were your parents drug-addicts, career criminals, dead, or in prison? Were the only financially-independent people in your neighbourhood criminals? Were you a victim of abuse by your own family? Were you ostracized by society and police from a young age?

You don't understand the impact of growing up in these tough environments. It's not simply about money.

Did I grow up in a single parent household? Yep. Did I move often? Yep. Did my electricity or heat get cut off? Nope, but I do remember my mom being to the point of tears worrying about that happening. Did I get assaulted growing up due to living in such a bad neighbourhood? Yep.

Fortunately for me, the answer to all your other questions are no. Not sure how your questions are even relevant. It wasn't about me, it was the fact that my mom, who dropped out of high school at a young age and worked as a waitress while raising 3 kids, managed to go back to school, get a better paying job and moved us to a much better area in Ajax. She slowly kept improving herself until she got a great job and now has a huge house on the water.

Tell me, what challenges do these people face that she didn't? The fact that they are hooked on drugs, that's their own doing, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

[manmanny]

Did I grow up in a single parent household? Yep. Did I move often? Yep. Did my electricity or heat get cut off? Nope, but I do remember my mom being to the point of tears worrying about that happening. Did I get assaulted growing up due to living in such a bad neighbourhood? Yep.

Fortunately for me, the answer to all your other questions are no. Not sure how your questions are even relevant. It wasn't about me, it was the fact that my mom, who dropped out of high school at a young age and worked as a waitress while raising 3 kids, managed to go back to school, get a better paying job and moved us to a much better area in Ajax. She slowly kept improving herself until she got a great job and now has a huge house on the water.

Tell me, what challenges do these people face that she didn't? The fact that they are hooked on drugs, that's their own doing, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

Agree 100%.


Did you grow up in a single or no parent home household? Did you move every few months? Did your electricity or heat get cut off? Did you ever wonder where your next meal was coming from? Did you get assaulted by gangs growing up? Were your parents drug-addicts, career criminals, dead, or in prison? Were the only financially-independent people in your neighbourhood criminals? Were you a victim of abuse by your own family? Were you ostracized by society and police from a young age?

You don't understand the impact of growing up in these tough environments. It's not simply about money.

Then what else is it about? Why people will deal in drugs at young age if t was not about money?

__________________________________________________ _____________________
Last edited by Reason: Removed taunting: Whats your obsession with him?!?!
We never question mod's obsession with boobvatars.

[flashy_mcflash]

Did I grow up in a single parent household? Yep. Did I move often? Yep. Did my electricity or heat get cut off? Nope, but I do remember my mom being to the point of tears worrying about that happening. Did I get assaulted growing up due to living in such a bad neighbourhood? Yep.

Fortunately for me, the answer to all your other questions are no. Not sure how your questions are even relevant. It wasn't about me, it was the fact that my mom, who dropped out of high school at a young age and worked as a waitress while raising 3 kids, managed to go back to school, get a better paying job and moved us to a much better area in Ajax. She slowly kept improving herself until she got a great job and now has a huge house on the water.

Tell me, what challenges do these people face that she didn't? The fact that they are hooked on drugs, that's their own doing, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

That they are completely different people with completely different circumstances. Your mother worked hard but she was also LUCKY. She worked hard but also benefited from somehow being able to afford to go back to school and get hired at a better job and find affordable housing in Ajax, all of which are much harder to attain in 2012. Presumably your mother bootstrapped her way out of poverty decades ago when nearly every challenge faced by your mother is magnified a hundredfold.

When fully-educated, young, fluent-English-speaking college grads can't find jobs in this economy, would your mother have the same opportunities she did back then? I wonder.

Again, because you know ONE PERSON that did this, doesn't mean that you can generalize to all the hundreds and thousands of people living in poverty right now. We're all slaves to our own circumstances, and there are situations from which even the hardest-working person will never be able to fully overcome.

[BornRuff]

Did I grow up in a single parent household? Yep. Did I move often? Yep. Did my electricity or heat get cut off? Nope, but I do remember my mom being to the point of tears worrying about that happening. Did I get assaulted growing up due to living in such a bad neighbourhood? Yep.

Fortunately for me, the answer to all your other questions are no. Not sure how your questions are even relevant. It wasn't about me, it was the fact that my mom, who dropped out of high school at a young age and worked as a waitress while raising 3 kids, managed to go back to school, get a better paying job and moved us to a much better area in Ajax. She slowly kept improving herself until she got a great job and now has a huge house on the water.

Tell me, what challenges do these people face that she didn't? The fact that they are hooked on drugs, that's their own doing, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

I think it is great to hear that your mother was able to improve so much for you and herself. I feel that sometimes people use these stories to downplay the impact that tough situations have on people's lives though. Personal responsibility is certainly important to stress, but ignoring the reality of these situations doesn't help fix the problems.

Some people beat the odds, but overwhelmingly, people living in these situations do much worse than people lucky enough to find themselves in a much more privileged situation.

[dc200]

I noticed how the winter months are so much more quieter. Summer rolls in and the shootings begin. Another one happened right out the window while I was at a Tim Hortons on the 9th.

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/209641--1-person-rushed-to-hospital-after-mississauga-shooting

[masterhapposai]

That they are completely different people with completely different circumstances. Your mother worked hard but she was also LUCKY. She worked hard but also benefited from somehow being able to afford to go back to school and get hired at a better job and find affordable housing in Ajax, all of which are much harder to attain in 2012. Presumably your mother bootstrapped her way out of poverty decades ago when nearly every challenge faced by your mother is magnified a hundredfold.

When fully-educated, young, fluent-English-speaking college grads can't find jobs in this economy, would your mother have the same opportunities she did back then? I wonder.

Again, because you know ONE PERSON that did this, doesn't mean that you can generalize to all the hundreds and thousands of people living in poverty right now. We're all slaves to our own circumstances, and there are situations from which even the hardest-working person will never be able to fully overcome.

My mom's story is very similar to Shane's. And my mom's friends have similar stories.

Now what do you have to say? All flukes?

[masterhapposai]

Did you grow up in a single or no parent home household? Did you move every few months? Did your electricity or heat get cut off? Did you ever wonder where your next meal was coming from? Did you get assaulted by gangs growing up? Were your parents drug-addicts, career criminals, dead, or in prison? Were the only financially-independent people in your neighbourhood criminals? Were you a victim of abuse by your own family? Were you ostracized by society and police from a young age?

You don't understand the impact of growing up in these tough environments. It's not simply about money.

I believe its a Yes to every one of those questions. No sibling involved in crime at my age, despite the numerous opportunities.

[masterhapposai]

well i was born and raised in regent park for 14 years.. What's the big deal? I'm not poor, i don't sell drugs or own a gun of any sort. When my parent's came to canada, they were broke so they had to start somewhere. It's not fair to say that being raised in regent park is irresponsible. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do to get by and then move out asap when you have the chance to

another success story. and this is just people in this thread, we're not even polling publicly

[BornRuff]

another success story. and this is just people in this thread, we're not even polling publicly

The stats are fairly conclusive. Success stories do happen, but on average people in these tougher situations do worse.

[BoogieWilliams]

For every person that makes it out of poverty there will be 10 times as many other people that fall through the cracks because its very easy. Just because you have made it out the hood doesn't mean that your friend will. It all depends on the choices you make and who you choose to be influenced by. There's a lot of people in poverty that see drugs/gangs as an easy way to make a little bit of money here and there while brushing off the harsh consequences. Ofcourse parents, role models, and other factors have a lot of influence on children but in the end it comes down to the persons own decisions. It seems that some of the posters in this thread believe that just because they did it everyone can do it. They are underestimating a lot of people because not everyone has the capacity, smarts and motivation to do what's right and get out of their problematic situation.

[mbg]

There are tons of kids that end up growing up just fine and getting out of the ghetto.
I strongly believe it is mostly in the parents.
I know some kids who had bad families, bad friends, bad everything, but the fact that their parents were strict is what kept them in line.
Obviously this is different for every case, but I think the parents are the most important thing.

Hell even when I was growing up (in Rexdale,) I was never scared of getting in trouble from school, the only thing I was scared of is getting in trouble at home.

+1

Look at the number of South Asian and Chinese people that live within the same financial restrictions as these people who commit crimes because of poverty.

Different cultures respond differently to the same set of circumstances, which is why some cultures are better than others.

I mean, look at how Sweden deals with its massive gun ownership compared to the United States..

[DearSummer]

I believe its a Yes to every one of those questions. No sibling involved in crime at my age, despite the numerous opportunities.

You were sexually and physically abused by your parents? Your parents were drug addicts and drug dealers? Very sad to hear. Who took care of you?

[Shaner]

The stats are fairly conclusive. Success stories do happen, but on average people in these tougher situations do worse.

People who are in the same tough situations do find a way out. If one person can do it, anyone can do it. It takes a lot of hard work and sacrifice, and that's the problem, too many people just aren't interested in hard work and sacrifice. They aren't willing to sacrifice all luxuries for years so they can save enough money to go back to school. Instead, they buy their cigarettes, a new TV, etc.

[DearSummer]

People who are in the same tough situations do find a way out. If one person can do it, anyone can do it. It takes a lot of hard work and sacrifice, and that's the problem, too many people just aren't interested in hard work and sacrifice. They aren't willing to sacrifice all luxuries for years so they can save enough money to go back to school. Instead, they buy their cigarettes, a new TV, etc.

What you don't get is that experiences mold people. Do you think the people who grow up in terrible conditions are going to act the same way that people who grew up as average suburban Canadians would? Look at many athletes. They have plenty of money yet many are getting into legal trouble, blowing their fortunes, etc. Why? It's not about the money. It's about the circumstances you are raised in affecting who you are as a person. Mike Tyson being handed $100 million allow him to escape his childhood.

[stuntman]

People who are in the same tough situations do find a way out. If one person can do it, anyone can do it. It takes a lot of hard work and sacrifice, and that's the problem, too many people just aren't interested in hard work and sacrifice. They aren't willing to sacrifice all luxuries for years so they can save enough money to go back to school. Instead, they buy their cigarettes, a new TV, etc.

What you are saying is easier said than done. Many people have no hope for themselves and therefore "why should they try something impossible?"

[kennyhohoho]

Like everything in life, there are winners and there are losers.

Unfortunately, the losers outnumber the winners. And occasionally one of those losers will snap and go on a murderous rampage.

[Abel4Life]

People who are in the same tough situations do find a way out. If one person can do it, anyone can do it. It takes a lot of hard work and sacrifice, and that's the problem, too many people just aren't interested in hard work and sacrifice. They aren't willing to sacrifice all luxuries for years so they can save enough money to go back to school. Instead, they buy their cigarettes, a new TV, etc.

We need more Obamas and less 50 cent wannabes.

[flashy_mcflash]

Not disagreeing exactly, but 50 Cent came out of poverty and became a multimillionaire though. Just sayin'.

[masterhapposai]

What you don't get is that experiences mold people. Do you think the people who grow up in terrible conditions are going to act the same way that people who grew up as average suburban Canadians would? Look at many athletes. They have plenty of money yet many are getting into legal trouble, blowing their fortunes, etc. Why? It's not about the money. It's about the circumstances you are raised in affecting who you are as a person. Mike Tyson being handed $100 million allow him to escape his childhood.

There are benefits out there.

There's welfare, alimony (if you can get it), women's shelters (which apparently some posters on this board were totally unaware of, not you), food bank and other minor charities and helpful organizations that aren't exactly perfect, but if used in conjunction with some elbow grease you can manage to survive and even thrive.

Remember that school up till the end of highschool is free. And that while OSAP is nearly criminal in how it operates (discriminating AGAINST the poor, I know first hand), if you can get SOME reimbursements and work part time or borrow $ from your parents, you can make it through school. College isn't expensive at all and there are many programs in College that can lead to great jobs.

Just stay out of the gangs, don't do drugs, avoid people. And cross your fingers you don't get shot. Soon as you can, move away from the area (will only cost $100-300 month rent increase).

[Hitman21]

I wasn't surprised at all that this shooting happened and the accused involved in it, these shootings WILL CONTINUE to happen and become more frequent. There are simple solutions to prevent this.

[longitude]

I wasn't surprised at all that this shooting happened and the accused involved in it, these shootings WILL CONTINUE to happen and become more frequent. There are simple solutions to prevent this.


welcome back brother.

[Hitman21]

welcome back brother.


Thank You! But it looks like certain people are out to take me out and will do what it takes to stop me so I dont know how much longer I will be on rfd :cry:

[trixstar]

I'll tell you what it felt like growing up with my family in regent park during elementary school.

kids there all wanted to be cool. To be cool, you had to wear baggy pants, you had be mean and bully other kids, and you had to suck up to the kids that were already popular. Which was usually the black kid. You had to skip classes and chill outside the schoolyard, smoking a joint and causing trouble with the buildings in the area. I did none of those. I was bullied when I was a kid. My parents gave me handed down clothes from my older cousins to wear and I always had cheap sneakers from zellers that were a size bigger. Sure I felt humiliated at school, but I didn't care much. My mom or dad would walk me to school every morning and pick me up after school. In the winter, they would drive me to school. They kept a really close eye on me at all times and would ask me how my day went, who i met and what friends I had. Every day at dinner they would tell me how one day I would become a doctor or scientist if I worked hard in school and that I would make a load of money to buy whatever I want. I was not allowed out with friends that often. Maybe once a week for a couple of hours and before I was allowed out, I had to repeat the multiplication table from 1-12. They also made me read books every saturday and sunday out loud and we would take out new books from the library when we do our grocery shopping at the end of the week. They would tuck me in bed every night and tell me to be a good kid in school, don't smoke, do drugs or listen to other people. I would get a kiss before they leave the bedroom.

I think the reason why i didn't turn out like most people in regent is because of how close our family was and the amount of love my parents had for me and the amount of time they spent to look after me