Tips on withdrawing rrsp from IG for self directed

[beerbaron105]

What's the best way to withdraw my RRSP from IG to start doing a self directed couch potato style of investing? I am tired of under performing funds and I keep reading about the high MERs associated with IG.

thanks

[S5]

1. Open an account at a discount broker.
2. Fill out a transfer form.
3. Wait.

You can do this online or go into a branch and get the assistance of an account opening specialist assuming you pick a broker with physical locations.

If you still have deferred sales charges on some of your funds it will get messy but is well worth the effort.

Depending on your portfolio size you should also give serious consideration to keeping things more simple and opening a mutual fund account at TD for their e-series. In that case, walk in to a TD branch, open a MF account and start an in cash transfer. Then fill out the online form to convert to e-series.

Lots of good info on these 2 blogs. Good luck.
http://canadiancouchpotato.com
http://www.canadiancapitalist.com

[sacabeans]

What's the best way to withdraw my RRSP from IG to start doing a self directed couch potato style of investing? I am tired of under performing funds and I keep reading about the high MERs associated with IG.

thanks

+1 on confirming your DSC with IG before transferring. Understand how much you will need to pay before sending in the transfer form.

Before you transfer to a self-directed account ask if they have yearly fee's, and also ask about if they have fee's for closing the account. You may not be happy with them either, and will get stuck paying to leave them.

[Stryker]

If you can find the June 2012 issue of MoneySense, either at the store or in the local library, there's an article in there titled "Renovate Your Portfolio". On page 33 there's a writeup on a woman who has the problem of getting out of DSC funds. It's not easy, but over time possible.

[wesboag]

What's the best way to withdraw my RRSP from IG to start doing a self directed couch potato style of investing? I am tired of under performing funds and I keep reading about the high MERs associated with IG.

thanks

It’s the same as any other RRSP held with an advisor at any other institution that offers advice. 99% of advisors use DSC funds for RRSP savings. They are cheaper than their no load counterpart. Call your advisor and find out the DSC schedule. There is no other way, unless of course you don't mind paying the DSC fees that you surely were informed about prior to signing an application.

I agree there are some poor advisors at IG as there are at any other institution. Nobody has done well over the past few years regardless of where you have held your money. If you aren't happy with the funds, ask your advisor to review them and to make the appropriate changes. That’s what they are there for. If he/she isn't doing their job, consider switching IG advisors until you do eventually move to a DIY format. What are the funds that you hold? I’ll tell you if they are something I would be using with clients in the economy.

As for the MER's, well if you have been reading about IG's fund fee's you should now know that they have actually dropped significantly in price in comparison to the competition. In some classes they are now at the top in regards to fees. On some funds it was a 40bps drop. Hence why the damn share price has fallen like a brick since IG's press release. This huge decrease in MER's means big decreases in the company’s profits. I’m happy with it though.

[beerbaron105]

Ok well I understand the economy is in a downward spiral at the moment, but basically here is a breakdown of what I have going on:

RRSP
Investors Dividend Fund A #00283 18.71%
Investors Canadian Large Cap Value Fund A #00282 12.78%
Investors Canadian Small Cap Fund A #00312 17.31%
Investors Canadian Natural Resource Fund A #00315 13.41%
IG FI Canadian Equity Fund A #00348 14.47%
Investors Global Natural Resources Class A #00268 23.32%

Total invested: $49,329.59
Current value: $37,670.77

I am 26, so a long ways away from retirement prospects, I know there are alot of educated financial men/women on this site, I've been with IG for about 6-7 years now, just thinking of my alternative options at this point.

Opinions?

[beerbaron105]

It’s the same as any other RRSP held with an advisor at any other institution that offers advice. 99% of advisors use DSC funds for RRSP savings. They are cheaper than their no load counterpart. Call your advisor and find out the DSC schedule. There is no other way, unless of course you don't mind paying the DSC fees that you surely were informed about prior to signing an application.

I agree there are some poor advisors at IG as there are at any other institution. Nobody has done well over the past few years regardless of where you have held your money. If you aren't happy with the funds, ask your advisor to review them and to make the appropriate changes. That’s what they are there for. If he/she isn't doing their job, consider switching IG advisors until you do eventually move to a DIY format. What are the funds that you hold? I’ll tell you if they are something I would be using with clients in the economy.

As for the MER's, well if you have been reading about IG's fund fee's you should now know that they have actually dropped significantly in price in comparison to the competition. In some classes they are now at the top in regards to fees. On some funds it was a 40bps drop. Hence why the damn share price has fallen like a brick since IG's press release. This huge decrease in MER's means big decreases in the company’s profits. I’m happy with it though.

I wasn't aware of the big drop, something that would have been great to hear from my financial advisor, but alas, nothing, I seem to be in the same situation as many with "financial" advisors, I only hear from them when it is RRSP crunch season....

[wesboag]

Ok well I understand the economy is in a downward spiral at the moment, but basically here is a breakdown of what I have going on:

RRSP
Investors Dividend Fund A #00283 18.71%
Investors Canadian Large Cap Value Fund A #00282 12.78%
Investors Canadian Small Cap Fund A #00312 17.31%
Investors Canadian Natural Resource Fund A #00315 13.41%
IG FI Canadian Equity Fund A #00348 14.47%
Investors Global Natural Resources Class A #00268 23.32%

Total invested: $49,329.59
Current value: $37,670.77

I am 26, so a long ways away from retirement prospects, I know there are alot of educated financial men/women on this site, I've been with IG for about 6-7 years now, just thinking of my alternative options at this point.

Opinions?

hmmm, Truthfully I only use 4 of those funds in client portfolio's as I'm not a fan of Fidelity's Equity fund and never paid much attention to our Global Resource fund as its are too risky for my taste. That said, Dividend fund has a very strong track record and is one of the oldest mutual funds in Canada. The Canadian Large cap has been destroyed over the past year which it really shouldn't have. It was very heavy on financials which as we all know did pretty bad last year in comparison to other sectors. The small cap is decent also, but like other small caps has taken a beating over the past year.

Do you contribute to these regularly? Or was it a lump sum investment?

If all this advisor did was pick some funds and never call you again well that’s terrible wherever you are it isn’t right. It’s not representative of all IG advisors. Do you have a written plan with IG?

As far as the funds are concerned, instead of the Canadian Large cap, I tend to use our Equity Income Fund in its place which has outperformed the index over the past 8 years by a large margin. I do use our Cdn Natural resource fund but in small portions. I just ran a PalTrak analysis on those funds and they have a very high positive correlation as a total portfolio which is counter intuitive. You want neutral correlations within a portfolio as it reduces risk and subsequently volatility. Your portfolio is in desperate need of a rebalance and a reduction in total Canadian holdings. You are way overweight in Canadian Equity in my opinion, Why no US or International? You also might want to reduce that global equity.

[beerbaron105]

hmmm, Truthfully I only use 4 of those funds in client portfolio's as I'm not a fan of Fidelity's Equity fund and never paid much attention to our Global Resource fund as its are too risky for my taste. That said, Dividend fund has a very strong track record and is one of the oldest mutual funds in Canada. The Canadian Large cap has been destroyed over the past year which it really shouldn't have. It was very heavy on financials which as we all know did pretty bad last year in comparison to other sectors. The small cap is decent also, but like other small caps has taken a beating over the past year.

Do you contribute to these regularly? Or was it a lump sum investment?

If all this advisor did was pick some funds and never call you again well that’s terrible wherever you are it isn’t right. It’s not representative of all IG advisors. Do you have a written plan with IG?

As far as the funds are concerned, instead of the Canadian Large cap, I tend to use our Equity Income Fund in its place which has outperformed the index over the past 8 years by a large margin. I do use our Cdn Natural resource fund but in small portions. I just ran a PalTrak analysis on those funds and they have a very high positive correlation as a total portfolio which is counter intuitive. You want neutral correlations within a portfolio as it reduces risk and subsequently volatility. Your portfolio is in desperate need of a rebalance and a reduction in total Canadian holdings. You are way overweight in Canadian Equity in my opinion, Why no US or International? You also might want to reduce that global equity.

I appreciate your points, and as for your last paragraph, you're asking the wrong guy as to why I am not investing in the areas you mentioned, obviously putting my faith in a financial adviser to "pick" the right funds to invest in. Yes I have a written plan with IG, but I only hear from my financial adviser once or twice a year - This thread actually made me send her an e-mail, to hopefully touch base and review my investments, which like you said, appear to be in dire need of an overhaul.

I contributed a few lump sums over the course of the past 6 years, and for the past year or so I have been contributing $200/mth on a regular basis.

edit: you may want to PM me with your information if you think you can help too

[wesboag]

I wasn't aware of the big drop, something that would have been great to hear from my financial advisor, but alas, nothing, I seem to be in the same situation as many with "financial" advisors, I only hear from them when it is RRSP crunch season....

I think I call my clients too much, lol. Most of them avoid my calls.

The changes haven’t happened yet with regards to a fee drop, but will in the coming months. I believe it will be addressed on your next statement.

Why do you stay with this advisor than? There are plenty of other great advisors at IG who actually do a good job. I'm not sure what area you are in but I know a number of advisors at our firm in the different provinces. I'd be happy to recommend one to you in your area if it’s something you were considering.

[beerbaron105]

Sent you PM

[SkimGuy]

You should NOT withdraw from your RRSP unless it's for a HBP (Homebuyer's plan) or for continuing education (There's a name for it but it eludes me at the current time).

The reason being is if you deregister your RRSP (i.e withdraw from it), you lose the contribution room forever, but if you withdraw from your RRSP through those other avenues, you can recontribute the same amount you took out over the next couple of years. Also, there's a withholding tax so you won't even be able to get the full amount back. The best option is to transfer it into another institution so that you will still have money in your RRSP.

[GemInite]

I switched my IG investments to TD. Although it took time I was happy with the end results.

Basically I set up accounts at TD first, then had TD send a letter to IG to transfer my account to TD.

There were DSC fees but I had evidence to prove that my IG rep was not looking out for my portfolio and was looking only to line his own pockets. IG Management agreed with me and waived all DSC fees.

As one of the other members have posted IG probably does have some good people who take care of their clients, but I was left with such a sour taste in my mouth I now prefer to do everything through TD e-series.

[Stryker]

Ok well I understand the economy is in a downward spiral at the moment, but basically here is a breakdown of what I have going on:

RRSP
Investors Dividend Fund A #00283 18.71%
Investors Canadian Large Cap Value Fund A #00282 12.78%
Investors Canadian Small Cap Fund A #00312 17.31%
Investors Canadian Natural Resource Fund A #00315 13.41%
IG FI Canadian Equity Fund A #00348 14.47%
Investors Global Natural Resources Class A #00268 23.32%

Total invested: $49,329.59
Current value: $37,670.77

I am 26, so a long ways away from retirement prospects, I know there are alot of educated financial men/women on this site, I've been with IG for about 6-7 years now, just thinking of my alternative options at this point.

Opinions?

The portfolio may satisfy your advisor but personally I'm aghast at the complete lack of diversification. Way too much home bias (Canada) and why the overkill in the natural resource industry?

[beerbaron105]

You should NOT withdraw from your RRSP unless it's for a HBP (Homebuyer's plan) or for continuing education (There's a name for it but it eludes me at the current time).

The reason being is if you deregister your RRSP (i.e withdraw from it), you lose the contribution room forever, but if you withdraw from your RRSP through those other avenues, you can recontribute the same amount you took out over the next couple of years. Also, there's a withholding tax so you won't even be able to get the full amount back. The best option is to transfer it into another institution so that you will still have money in your RRSP.

Sorry I should have clarified, I want to keep my registered RSP, but I wanted to move it to TD efunds or at least explore the possibilities.

[beerbaron105]

I switched my IG investments to TD. Although it took time I was happy with the end results.

Basically I set up accounts at TD first, then had TD send a letter to IG to transfer my account to TD.

There were DSC fees but I had evidence to prove that my IG rep was not looking out for my portfolio and was looking only to line his own pockets. IG Management agreed with me and waived all DSC fees.

As one of the other members have posted IG probably does have some good people who take care of their clients, but I was left with such a sour taste in my mouth I now prefer to do everything through TD e-series.

How much were you looking at in fees to transfer? And what sort of evidence did you have?

[S5]

See this thread for some help extracting yourself from DSCs. http://www.financialwebring.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=114634

I agree the portfolio listed is woefully undiversified, probably some performance chasing with all that energy/materials exposure. That being said even the most diversified, tailored portfolio at IG or any other high cost funds family will still deplete 50-65% of the OP's retirement nest egg by the time he retires. Good on him for seeing the light and going passive/low cost where he can keep 80-90% of HIS money.

[beerbaron105]

Well to update, I put in the paperwork last week for a TD Waterhouse account, and transferred my RRSP over to it, just waiting for the transfer to clear.

Also sent my Advisor a "dear john" letter, leaving on good terms, but have not received a response, hmm...*rolls eyes*

[Stryker]

Well to update, I put in the paperwork last week for a TD Waterhouse account, and transferred my RRSP over to it, just waiting for the transfer to clear.

Also sent my Advisor a "dear john" letter, leaving on good terms, but have not received a response, hmm...*rolls eyes*

Thanks for letting us know beerbaron. When you have time, post us an update once the RRSP transfer clears at TD Waterhouse. Since I've never owned DSC funds, will be interested to hear how it all plays out.

[beerbaron105]

Thanks for letting us know beerbaron. When you have time, post us an update once the RRSP transfer clears at TD Waterhouse. Since I've never owned DSC funds, will be interested to hear how it all plays out.

Yeah I called IG customer service ahead of time to get approximate quotes on how much it would cost to sell my funds, about $1600 in fees :| Hopefully I make that up over the years with minimal MER fees

[Y2K_MASTER]

Yeah I called IG customer service ahead of time to get approximate quotes on how much it would cost to sell my funds, about $1600 in fees :| Hopefully I make that up over the years with minimal MER fees

I'm guessing Wes gave you a new diversified portfolio through a pm. I'd go with that until at least the dsc is matured because there is one thing I can promise with index investing: you will always under perform the index.

[beerbaron105]

No he definitely helped, but I decided to go it alone and start with TD Waterhouse

On a related note, how long does it take to transfer an RRSP? It has been exactly a month today and still nothing has moved from IG into TD.

[wesboag]

No he definitely helped, but I decided to go it alone and start with TD Waterhouse

On a related note, how long does it take to transfer an RRSP? It has been exactly a month today and still nothing has moved from IG into TD.

Thats pretty average. Maybe another 1-2 weeks tops. Although I've had transfers take 2 months. IG is pretty quick with transfer outs.

[S5]

On a related note, how long does it take to transfer an RRSP? It has been exactly a month today and still nothing has moved from IG into TD.

A few weeks seems typical in my experience with both my accounts and those of family members I've helped migrate to a discount broker. Unfortunately you're dealing with the most notorious MF group out there so they're going to milk it as much as they can. Think of all the extra fees they earn by delaying these requests for a month more than is necessary. Nice to see their employee above is laughable as ever, simultaneously telling you a month and a half is normal and that they are quick with transfers.

[Y2K_MASTER]

A few weeks seems typical in my experience with both my accounts and those of family members I've helped migrate to a discount broker. Unfortunately you're dealing with the most notorious MF group out there so they're going to milk it as much as they can. Think of all the extra fees they earn by delaying these requests for a month more than is necessary. Nice to see their employee above is laughable as ever, simultaneously telling you a month and a half is normal and that they are quick with transfers.

I've had transfers from banks like Scotia and RBC take 6-8 weeks. And in a couple of cases, TD "lost" my transfer instructions 1 and 3 times for 2 different accounts. What's your point here? And the OP most likely had his money in the IGFS platform which is almost entirely dependent on the adviser he is dealing with to complete the transfer out.

[wesboag]

A few weeks seems typical in my experience with both my accounts and those of family members I've helped migrate to a discount broker. Unfortunately you're dealing with the most notorious MF group out there so they're going to milk it as much as they can. Think of all the extra fees they earn by delaying these requests for a month more than is necessary. Nice to see their employee above is laughable as ever, simultaneously telling you a month and a half is normal and that they are quick with transfers.

I'm self employed for one; I am not an employee of IG. Two, the advisor has no say in the transfer and its "delay" after the papers are signed, the entire process after that is head office. Three, yes a month or more is typical of every institution, regardless if it is a mutual fund company, brokerage, planning firm, bank, etc. The fact that you will say anything to discredit anything I say speaks loudly of your character. I’m pretty sure if you talk to the OP he will have a very different opinion on how “laughable” I am. Again, you are nothing but a child.

[S5]

I've had transfers from banks like Scotia and RBC take 6-8 weeks. And in a couple of cases, TD "lost" my transfer instructions 1 and 3 times for 2 different accounts. What's your point here? And the OP most likely had his money in the IGFS platform which is almost entirely dependent on the adviser he is dealing with to complete the transfer out.

My point is that it should not take more than 2-3 weeks to transfer. When it does, in the vast majority of cases it is due to the originating broker/company dragging their feet since they have no incentive to process the transfer quickly(and in fact have incentive to keep collecting fees). Your BFF above stated a month and a half was normal at IG.

I thought that was quite obvious from my post but you seem to have trouble reading posts that are critical of the despicable company that employs you.

[S5]

the advisor has no say in the transfer and its "delay" after the papers are signed, the entire process after that is head office.

Thanks for making my case!


Three, yes a month or more is typical of every institution, regardless if it is a mutual fund company, brokerage, planning firm, bank, etc.

Not the case at all. I've had some transfers show up in under a week but 2-3 weeks is more typical. Your experience is coloured by working for a crappy company. That's fine but turning around and saying they are fast after you just said 1.5 months is typical due to head office is laughable.



The fact that you will say anything to discredit anything I say speaks loudly of your character. I’m pretty sure if you talk to the OP he will have a very different opinion on how “laughable” I am. Again, you are nothing but a child.

LOL, I love the personal attacks everytime I point out another ridiculous statement you've made. No better confirmation that you are on tilt.:lol:

[Y2K_MASTER]

My point is that it should not take more than 2-3 weeks to transfer. When it does, in the vast majority of cases it is due to the originating broker/company dragging their feet since they have no incentive to process the transfer quickly(and in fact have incentive to keep collecting fees). Your BFF above stated a month and a half was normal at IG.

I thought that was quite obvious from my post but you seem to have trouble reading posts that are critical of the despicable company that employs you.

First of all, I've never met Wes in my life. Second of all, I chose to be self employed with IG because they stood out as one of the best when I decided to start my own business. And third of all, if you reread your post you were clearly pointing fingers at IG as if every other institutiion jumped up like a dog to get things done when they received a transfer out request. What you think should happen doesn't magically make it an industry standard.

Why don't you take that chip off your shoulder and accept the fact that there are some really good financial planners out there like myself, and that not every Joe Blow can learn tax and investing rules on their own effectively.

[wesboag]

Thanks for making my case!



Not the case at all. I've had some transfers show up in under a week but 2-3 weeks is more typical. Your experience is coloured by working for a crappy company. That's fine but turning around and saying they are fast after you just said 1.5 months is typical due to head office is laughable.




LOL, I love the personal attacks everytime I point out another ridiculous statement you've made. No better confirmation that you are on tilt.:lol:

Apparently your reading comprehension is subpar. I said a month was average, not 5-6 weeks, which is nothing but the truth. Yes I have had transfers in within 3 weeks, but a month is industry average and in some cases a lot faster than other institutions, namely the big 5 banks. You are arguing based on your family’s transaction history.

How did I make your case? What that it is out of the advisors hands once signed? How do you think it happens everywhere else? Keep grasping at straws.

When the hell have I personally attacked you? Please show me an example? Seriously….you won’t find one. If I have said something out of line it’s because you have yes put me on “tilt” with your ignorant comments about myself or IG. Your arrogance is laughable.

You follow me around this site purposely looking for an argument. It’s pretty blatant and comical actually.
I’ll carry on while you sit behind your computer acting like a big tough guy know it all. I’m fine with that.

[Stryker]

All I'm doing is transferring a TFSA savings cash account at ING Direct to a TFSA at Peoples Trust.

I've copied and pasted what Peoples Trust told me in the e-mail after requesting information.

"Please be aware that it takes 6-8 weeks to complete a transfer"

It's been the same time factor in RRSP transfers for the last thirty years so nothing has changed. Just have to be patient.

[S5]

You follow me around this site purposely looking for an argument. It’s pretty blatant and comical actually.
I’ll carry on while you sit behind your computer acting like a big tough guy know it all. I’m fine with that.

You really are delusional. I doubt I've read even half your posts here. In this very thread I avoided directly responding to you, preferring to reply to the OP's post to avoid further confrontation that would take away from the OP's topic. You OTOH continually make it a point to make it a personal confrontation everytime I challenge anything you say. If you weren't continually making self serving comments and trying to drum up business in here, you wouldn't get confronted nearly as much, be it by me or any of the other DIY investors who post here without ulterior motives who you always end up in arguments with.

In this very thread you tried to recruit the OP, your sig is nothing but an ad that exposes your motives for particpation on RFD. Poor little persecuted wesboag, lol.

[wesboag]

You really are delusional. I doubt I've read even half your posts here. In this very thread I avoided directly responding to you, preferring to reply to the OP's post to avoid further confrontation that would take away from the OP's topic. You OTOH continually make it a point to make it a personal confrontation everytime I challenge anything you say. If you weren't continually making self serving comments and trying to drum up business in here, you wouldn't get confronted nearly as much, be it by me or any of the other DIY investors who post here without ulterior motives who you always end up in arguments with.

In this very thread you tried to recruit the OP, your sig is nothing but an ad that exposes your motives for particpation on RFD. Poor little persecuted wesboag, lol.

Blah Blah Blah…You have avoided directly responding to me yet you call me Y2K’s BFF? That I am laughable? I work for a despicable company? etc etc etc and this is only this thread. How the heck am I making self serving comments? How the heck have I tried to drum up business or recruit the OP? The OP is already with IG? Or was. I fully agreed with the OP that if he wants to be a DIYer, to go at it and I told him this.

You are nothing but a smart ***** . Plain and simple. Who cares what my signature is. I’m proud of what I do and who I am. You on the other hand appear so unhappy with your little world that you try to smear my name in hopes of making yourself feel like a bigger man. Truly sad.

[cocodc]

Did this exact same thing... and was warned that IG might be less than expeditious about the transfer. Having said that, in my experience we initiated the transfer on Aug 10, funds at IG were redeemed ~Aug 31. However, they did not arrive at the new account until Oct 23. This might have been because of reinvested income and grant money, and subsequent need to apply to transfer the extra money, I'm not sure. We transferred 4 registered accounts. So OP, it did take a LONG time.

As an aside, later transfer from branch to same institution's discount broker... 2 days. :)

[beerbaron105]

Alot of bickering... lol

Wesboag offered me advice and even when I made arrangements to meet with him, only to cancel with him a short while later, he made no attempts to pressure me further and wished me well, unfortunately I had a less than desirable Financial advisor with IG so it turned me off to stick around further, and to research and pursue my own DIY investments, so let's steer this ship back on course