Toronto schools pay high prices for small jobs

[jp06]

Here’s what taxpayers were charged for work done at Toronto public schools:

Installing a $17 pencil sharpener: $143 to put in four screws.

The installation of a sign on a school’s front lawn: $19,000

An electrical outlet on the wall in a school library: $3,000

A “breakfast club” kitchen: $250,000


full article: http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1214758--toronto-schools-pay-high-prices-for-small-jobs?bn=1

I should go to college to be an electrician or some contractor if these are the "going rates". I would gladly install 4 screws for $143 and even offer 24/7 on-call repair service should the pencil sharpener ever becomes loose. Whoever gives out these BS contracts must be hiring their own family or friends contractors because there is no way someone with a brain would pay these ridiculous rates.

[gizmo8]

Unions always have excuses why their estimates cost more than a private contract estimates and its always layers of department that the unions have to go through to do a simple job and the "manpower" required to do so...my cousin works for the roads department for the city and even though he is a hardcore union supporter he sees tons of waste and abuses on the work sheets by managers and other workers..one story is his crew installing those dreaded speedbumps,usually it cost $2000 per bump but sometimes it balloons to $6000 per bump since a supervisor is sent to location to "inspect" a location of a bump where a home owner is complaining about it being to close to his driveway entrance,well plans has to be sent to the design department,legal department has to inspect if they the city is liable for accidents cause by the bump being too close to the disgrunted homeowner and the crew is sent back again to restart the bump....

[underjeep]

how about this, people in the government giving out pay sheets to work on weekends where you don't have to do any work, you don't show up, you stay home and get paid. You agree to work Friday, Saturday and Sunday, you only show up on friday and complete your work and take saturday and sunday off, though you get paid for all three days. You have to be high on the friend's list of the guy giving out that work. Seen it happen first hand, and that's just the minor stuff.

[gizmo8]

how about this, people in the government giving out pay sheets to work on weekends where you don't have to do any work, you don't show up, you stay home and get paid. You agree to work Friday, Saturday and Sunday, you only show up on friday and complete your work and take saturday and sunday off, though you get paid for all three days. You have to be high on the friend's list of the guy giving out that work. Seen it happen first hand, and that's just the minor stuff.

so true the entitlement that unions expects to get is getting out of hand...a clear example of this type of entitlement system gone wild is Greece......

[Nook]

This is why I encourage you all to open up a "business" on the side, post losses for the first 5 years (as expected) and pass off most of your expenses.

Can't beat 'em, join 'em.

~Scumbag crew~

[Evil Baby]

how about this, people in the government giving out pay sheets to work on weekends where you don't have to do any work, you don't show up, you stay home and get paid. You agree to work Friday, Saturday and Sunday, you only show up on friday and complete your work and take saturday and sunday off, though you get paid for all three days. You have to be high on the friend's list of the guy giving out that work. Seen it happen first hand, and that's just the minor stuff.


so true the entitlement that unions expects to get is getting out of hand...a clear example of this type of entitlement system gone wild is Greece......

How does that not fall back on the managers? I know in my government job my managers do everything they can to avoid OT on Sunday because it is a higher pay rate than Saturday. There isn't a single iota of a chance that somebody in would get paid OT for 3 days while only working 1.

[manmanny]

full article: http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1214758--toronto-schools-pay-high-prices-for-small-jobs?bn=1

I should go to college to be an electrician or some contractor if these are the "going rates". I would gladly install 4 screws for $143 and even offer 24/7 on-call repair service should the pencil sharpener ever becomes loose. Whoever gives out these BS contracts must be hiring their own family or friends contractors because there is no way someone with a brain would pay these ridiculous rates.

This is what happens when taxpayers are paying. Whoever authorized this should be fired right away.

http://i.thestar.com/images/d9/1b/43c558e24d128514cff9f940b128.jpg
The work in question was carried out by some of the 900-strong maintenance and construction trades people who have an exclusive contract with the Toronto District School Board.

When you have such contract abuse is rampant.

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last edited by reason: Removed taunting: Whats your obsession with him?!?!
We never question mod's obsession...

[Hitman21]

This is totally ridiculous, the school board claims there broke and they do this. The taxpayer must be respected.

[underjeep]

How does that not fall back on the managers? I know in my government job my managers do everything they can to avoid OT on Sunday because it is a higher pay rate than Saturday. There isn't a single iota of a chance that somebody in would get paid OT for 3 days while only working 1.

it's encouraged to spend more to maintain budgets, but it always goes horribly wrong when budgets get cut for subsequent years and then there's not enough money to do your job. the manager is doing a "solid" for his friends, and the managers manager doesn't care, stamp it and pass it on. I've seen a $500 repair bill for a leather chair for the higher ups, it gets even dirtier the higher you go, 2 days of free overtime is probably nothing to them. It's all disgusting and encouraged.

[Hitman21]

it's encouraged to spend more to maintain budgets, but it always goes horribly wrong when budgets get cut for subsequent years and then there's not enough money to do your job. the manager is doing a "solid" for his friends, and the managers manager doesn't care, stamp it and pass it on. I've seen a $500 repair bill for a leather chair for the higher ups, it gets even dirtier the higher you go, 2 days of free overtime is probably nothing to them. It's all disgusting and encouraged.

This is the problem right here when you have bureaucrats who believe the money belongs to them and waste taxpayer money. There needs to some massive layoffs in order to fix this mess.

[Nettles]

Lol at the $143 for screwing in a pencil sharpener, you could have probably bought multiple electric sharpeners for that amount, they cost $20-30 at Staples.

http://www.chromacolour.co.uk/store/images/swordfish.jpg

It might be unions being stupid but whoever paid isn't spending their own $ so they're careless with it. This is just a small microcosm of money wastefulness by an organization and them willing to pay these high costs is also why us normal consumers have to overpay.

[Hitman21]

Lol at the $143 for screwing in a pencil sharpener, you could have probably bought multiple electric sharpeners for that amount, they cost $20-30 at Staples.

http://www.chromacolour.co.uk/store/images/swordfish.jpg

It might be unions being stupid but whoever paid isn't spending their own $ so they're careless with it. This is just a small microcosm of money wastefulness by an organization and them willing to pay these high costs is also why us normal consumers have to overpay.

Agreed. The bureaucrats in charge of this must be fired for there incompetence.

[iridium001]

Another week, another day, another story about corruption in Ontario, if not Toronto.

Seriously kids, forget working in the private sector, public sector is where it's at. Your counsellors in high school got it all wrong, work for the gov't where you can do what you want, when you want, cuz barring a major regime change, the most that will happen to you is you get reprimanded. :facepalm:

Wish I knew this before going through dozens of private sector jobs before landing the gov't job I am at now. :D

[r1lee]

LOL.. :facepalm:

buy a couple of these and pass these around..

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQejL38la6BNtRTPevIBzzTToE3cgDt1 NL4j3iz0aLo-5T0w_qzN5FHCeCIEQ

[sylpherware]

As ridiculous as the cost goes, I wouldn't pin the fault onto the "bureaucracy". We live in a society where "responsibility" is assigned, not assumed.

In 3rd world countries, things gets done cheaper and faster because things like "responsibility" and "liability" get thrown around like a game of tag. Once you pay for something, you're it. No backsies. No guarantees, no returns. If you get injured with our product, you have no chance of suing us because there would be no paper trail to follow.

We are generally stupid; you can never assume the next person will take the exact same precaution as you did even if all the instructions were laid out in front of them. You don't want to take responsibility for their stupidity, so you get insurance, you make them sign waivers, you do whatever it takes to protect yourself. And that costs money.

Teachers are not all handyman and not all students know how to use pencil sharpeners without injuring themselves. If anything happens on the school's property, it's the school's responsibility, and the school district does not like that. Ultimately, they don't want to be liable to anything that you did to yourself, so they pay someone to take the responsibility.

[sylpherware]

LOL.. :facepalm:

buy a couple of these and pass these around..

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQejL38la6BNtRTPevIBzzTToE3cgDt1 NL4j3iz0aLo-5T0w_qzN5FHCeCIEQ

Or just ban pencils all together. Mechanical pencil, pen, or ipads only ;)

[thelefteyeguy]

Another week, another day, another story about corruption in Ontario, if not Toronto.

Seriously kids, forget working in the private sector, public sector is where it's at. Your counsellors in high school got it all wrong, work for the gov't where you can do what you want, when you want, cuz barring a major regime change, the most that will happen to you is you get reprimanded. :facepalm:

Wish I knew this before going through dozens of private sector jobs before landing the gov't job I am at now. :D

boy the counsellors sure got it all wrong :(

[spike1128]

Is that the gravy train?

[Rainne]

Think of the government as a family business that never closes down.

Unless you're Greece LOL

[thinfilms]

Or just ban pencils all together. Mechanical pencil, pen, or ipads only ;)

Back when I was in school, most people used mechanical pencils/ pens. The few who still used pencils had their own sharpeners.

Those built in sharpers were so bad (at least in my school). Most of the time it would just chew up the pencil at an angle then snap when I start to write with it :facepalm:

[iridium001]

Think of the government as a family business that never closes down.

Unless you're Greece LOL

Zing!

[Evil Baby]

This is the problem right here when you have bureaucrats who believe the money belongs to them and waste taxpayer money. There needs to some massive layoffs in order to fix this mess.

Or you know, you could just hire capable managers to control the situation. Just cutting the work force because union and non union alike have abused the system will not fix a single thing. It'll just get slower.

[Rainne]

Or you know, you could just hire capable managers to control the situation. Just cutting the work force because union and non union alike have abused the system will not fix a single thing. It'll just get slower.

lol

Even managers have managers

When the union employees submit enough complaints, out goes the manager

[Evil Baby]

lol

Even managers have managers

When the union employees submit enough complaints, out goes the manager

Yes, managers have managers, which is why it is so important to make sure the right people in charge. Generally speaking the Unions do not have any say over who is in charge regardless of if they like them or not.

[rsasp]

Is that the gravy train?

Yes sir, that is the good o'l gravy train alright...
Luckily the gravy train in Canada is still running, unlike the ones in Greece, Spain and Italy, it went: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1426/4604466752_799c5b22cc.jpg

[r1lee]

Is that the gravy train?

no according to some, there is no gravy train.

[manmanny]

Now that a sign of Good Management.:razz:

"Construction and maintenance workers who were supposed to be working at Toronto public schools have been discovered spending long mornings at Tim Horton’s, drinking in bars and even kissing in cars."

"The workers submitted time sheets and were paid their wages as if they put in a full day’s work, according to school board sources. It is unknown if the TDSB is trying to recoup the wages."

[diggler649]

This thread has become political.

IBTL!

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRYBsORWImvy0U4P6H9jJ7eai1QKiXwi d61Y1DrLny6Cwhy2HfA

[BananaHunter]

It's disgusting but there's no easy fix for this. It's hard to supervise workers so confirmation that they are slacking off or overcharging is difficult.

People really need to think outside the box and use more common sense. If installing a goddamn pencil sharpener costs this much, maybe it's better if the students/parents paid for it instead. So instead of having the government waste $143 per sharpener, each parent can buy his child a sharpener (or decide to go with mechanical pencils) which would cost $1-$20. People will always take better care of their personal belongings. A school installed sharpener opens up room for litigation and it'll be worn out/damaged quickly.

We need to cut the red tape and just let schools hire contractors on the free market. Exclusive contracts breeds so much abuse. Schools also need to be given more appropriate budgets for repairs.

Yeah, unions are disgusting sometimes. Red tape increases costs. Ironically, when the public gets mad enough, the government's solution is often to add MORE red tape. This is depressing.

[rems]

This thread has become political.

IBTL!

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRYBsORWImvy0U4P6H9jJ7eai1QKiXwi d61Y1DrLny6Cwhy2HfA

It's funny cuz if a certain someone (ahem DS) else started this thread it would have been locked already...

[manmanny]

It's funny cuz if a certain someone (ahem DS) else started this thread it would have been locked already...

You cant criticize moderators or you will get banned. Not that it works effectively and efficiently.

[r1lee]

You cant criticize moderators or you will get banned. Not that it works effectively and efficiently.

did you notice, lots of regular's are missing on threads like this.

[johnboy]

That Hazel is such an arrogant SOB too. Where is Al Swearengen and Mr. Woo when you need them?

[manmanny]

did you notice, lots of regular's are missing on threads like this.

There is a reason.
LRT-Subway debate was political and the usual political hacks enjoyed the free ride given here on RFD.
Since its settled there is no more fun for them.
And all politics/ thread are banned and Mods are banning anyone with slight different or political/religious opinion.

[starboy869]

I'm reading a book on the starting of Unions and some of the 1930 time frame demands were

-10 hr work day instead of 15hrs
- first aid room
- company built toliet
- emer. shower

this was for a chemical plant in the 1930's.


Also one good union did was 5 day work week, instead of 6, and women and children weren't premitted to work more than 45hrs a week.

However unions are now are mostly greed.

[Syne]

I think the reason you're not seeing this topic heat up is because everyone can agree that public sector waste is a problem, regardless of their political POV.

What usually starts the bickering is someone posits that ALL public spending must go, because here we have an example of poor money management. Then the moderates try to correct to the middle and all bedlam breaks loose.

Since nobody has elevated this issue (Toronto school spending) to a larger ideological issue, everything stays cool. I'm OK with this and I agree, public dollars should be more tightly controlled.

[virgilaug]

While those examples are clear waste and for sure there must be some backroom deals done to give out such succulent contracts it hardly accounts for the cost problems of the TDSB.

[will888]

Don't they call this kind of stuff in third world countries corruption? Anyway, we are becoming third world plenty fast. Mcginty applies accelerant every which way he can.

[yao416]

This thread has become political.

IBTL!

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRYBsORWImvy0U4P6H9jJ7eai1QKiXwi d61Y1DrLny6Cwhy2HfA

Na. It will run for another 10 pages and this thread will be locked

And lol at installing a pencil shapeber