All about Networking

[HTTP04]

Updated- Will be adding stuff regarding my experience with cold/warm calling when I get the time.

There seems to be a lot of networking talk on careers but not a dedicated thread so here it is

A little about me, I will be graduating from University (non-target*) this year, average GPA, currently interning at a MM Investment Bank got an off-season job offer as an analyst at a small buyside firm DT, done University.

As some of you already know, I did a buyside intern before the current position and both of these jobs were through NETWORKING

Shoot me couple questions about networking, might be able to give an interesting take from a soon-to-be grad's POV

*My school is one of the best for Accounting (alot of Big 4 hires) but for Finance it is fairly low on radar. It pumps out occasional front office bankers but most end up middle/back office/retail.

When and why did I start networking:
My first ever network started through my boss at one of my past work at one of the Big 5 Banks. One day my boss gave me a contact to his Investment Banker friend and this is when I started reading guides on M&I, WSO, Vault on networking and started getting into it.

From a realistic POV my mark wasnt good enough to make the Big 5 IB cutoffs so I had to look for other ways of getting in: Networking

How I network:

At first, I networked only with Investment Bankers from Big 5 (RBC, TD, BMO, Scotia, Cibc), while I did manage to make good friendships, I still had trouble getting even an interview.

That is when I decided to change my approach to focusing on Boutique + MM

I use 3 approaches:
1) Cold calling
2) Cold emailing
3) Referrals

FOREWARNING: I am not a networking expert nor do I know everything about networking. This is merely the process I used to obtain my current and past job and, quite frankly, it is what helped me to beat out other competitors from school with much higher GPAs.

How networking is done

1) (Just like every other networking guides say) start with people you know: family, friends, professor, boss, etc

2) Make a nice excel file to keep tabs on all your networks, like mine below, and put in all your contacts above:

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q528/c2qshinakuma/NetworkingList.png

3) Make a list of 20-30 people in your field of interest to start with

How?
Ask your family/friend/professor/boss if they know anyone working in Career X. Alternatively, google/linkedin search those people (this is the method I use 99% of the time)

But HTTP04, google/linkedin search gives me their first+last name but no email address, what do I do???
a) Go to the company website and dig through
b) If it's a company like RBC/TD/CIBC/SCOTIA/BMO/OTHERS, they usually use a generic email like firstname.lastname@company.ca/com.

If a) and b) didnt turn up any email or phone #, delete the person from list, move on.

4) Once you got a good list going with the person + their email address, it's time to break the ice and start networking

5) Keep the message SHORT

Here's a sample email: Hi Mr/Ms/Mrs X, my name is XYZ and I am a current X year student at University of XYZ. I am contacting you because I have an interest in Career X and would like to learn more about this role. I would appreciate the opporunity to have a chat with you over a cup of coffee and talk about your experiences. Thank you, NAME

It's short and up to the point.

6) Quite obvious but keep track of all your sent emails (date, time, etc)

7) Play the waiting game, I give the person 5-7 days to reply back before I send another email in the format below:

Hi Mr/Ms/Mrs X, I am just following up to my previous email. I would really appreciate the opportunity to have a chat with you and learn from your experiences. Thank you, NAME

Again, short and sweet.

8) My rule is keep emailing them every 5-7 days until they reply OR if you still get no response after 5 attempts, note it on your excel file and forget about the person for now.

9) The person replied back

From my experiences you will get one of 2 replies:
a) Sorry but I am very busy, blah blah
*In this case, I still send a reply back thanking him anyways and I wait 2 months before trying again.
From this point, continue emailing other people and repeat steps 1-8 until you get a YES answer.

b) Sure, would love to chat, blah blah
*In this case, congrats, you broke the ice and ready to move on to step 10

10) Set up a date

Note: I am not going into details outside of networking, like being prepared with technical questions and whatnot...that is your responsibility. If you f***ed up a meeting because you werent adequately prepared, that is your fault.

IMPORTANT: Before the meeting, internet stalk the person a bit and try to find out a bit about their past: work experience, school, etc. Use common sense, dont stalk to the point where you know where they live, how many kids they have...that is f***ing creepy.


11) THE MEETING
The basics: groom yourself, dress nicely, DONT BE LATE

These are my 2 cents on how you should behave at meetings
a) Think of the meeting as if you are trying to make friends with the person
b) Dont be arrogant/cocky/know-it-all
c) Be confident (demonstrate good body language: strong handshake, upright position, no slouching, etc)
d) Usually the meetings go like this: Introduce yourselves, the person talks about his experiences, you listen and add compliments (dont be too obvious, just stroke his ego a bit so he feels good), THE MOST IMPORTANT PART: SLOWLY DIVERT THE CONVERSATION FROM WORK -> FUN THINGS

^ EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

Why is it important? When you talk about fun things (hobbies, interest outside of work, etc), you build better rapport and helps to build a connection on a more personal level.

It's all about timing, dont suddenly bring up fun topics when the person is talking about something that is totally irrelevant

e) Chat away and at the end you ask him for a small "request"
Simple as, would it be ok if I keep in touch with you?

f) Keep in touch and after a month or so, ask for things like referrals/another meeting/etc
*If the person likes you, you will most likely get a referral/meeting

g) After another month or so, directly express your interest in an intern position

COLD CALLING

Will update soon, I had a pretty pleasant experience cold/warm (mostly cold) calling.


The above is my basic mini-guide to networking, it's pretty basic and self-explanatory.

If you need more details, you can always look at WSO/M&I guide

[Ritchie3]

There seems to be alot of networking talk on careers but not a dedicated thread so here it is

A little about me, I will be graduating from University (non-target*) this year, average GPA, currently interning at a MM Investment Bank

As some of you already know, I did a buyside intern before the current position and both of these jobs were through NETWORKING

Shoot me couple questions about networking, might be able to give an interesting take from a soon-to-be grad's POV

*My school is one of the best for Accounting (alot of Big 4 hires) but for Finance it is fairly low on radar. It pumps out occasional front office bankers but most end up middle/back office/retail.

What school?

[rapashoo]

I use 3 approaches:
1) Cold calling
2) Cold emailing
3) Referrals



When you cold call or cold email, do you target department manager or HR person?

[HTTP04]

What school?

utsc


When you cold call or cold email, do you target department manager or HR person?

None.

For Big 5 I only networked with Analyst/Associate and occasional VP

For boutique/mm, I had better luck with VPs and MDs

The reason why I target VP and MD for boutique/mm is because the firm size is much smaller and they have alot of pulling power when it comes to hiring.

Basically cutting the BS out and getting straight to the man

Never do this to anyone in C-level UNLESS you have a referral to him/her (virtually wont happen)

[strickmans]

utsc



None.

For Big 5 I only networked with Analyst/Associate and occasional VP

For boutique/mm, I had better luck with VPs and MDs

The reason why I target VP and MD for boutique/mm is because the firm size is much smaller and they have alot of pulling power when it comes to hiring.

Basically cutting the BS out and getting straight to the man

Never do this to anyone in C-level UNLESS you have a referral to him/her (virtually wont happen)


how do u network then?

[kiddking]

You have to keep updating your progress and write more of your networking experiences in this thread :D

[Tonberry]

Do the networking spontaneously rather than on purpose, just talk and network with anyone, not just the ones that interest you.

[HTTP04]

how do u network then?

Combination of

1) Cold email
2) Cold call
3) Referrals



Do the networking spontaneously rather than on purpose, just talk and network with anyone, not just the ones that interest you.

I tend to disagree

Yes, networking with everyone will help you in the long run; you never know who knows who

If you ask me it's kinda stupid for me to network with, lets say, marketing people when I can use that time to network with other bankers.

I might as well cut the crap out and goes straight to the people that I need.

Quite frankly, it makes no sense for someone in finance to cold email/call a person in marketing to talk about finance.

[Syne]

Let's start at the basics for people like myself.

What exactly is networking? You've adequately explained the channels you use to do it, but I'm unsure exactly how you break the ice from some guy you don't know in a random company, to a guy willing to go to work to land you a job.

Explain the evolution of this relationship, from cold e-mail, to person willing to take a bullet for you. I find the idea of such a relationship fascinating from an anthropological perspective. What does this person have to gain from talking to you? And when you interact, do you act sincere or do you have this specter of wanting something from the other person hanging over you?

[HTTP04]

Let's start at the basics for people like myself.

What exactly is networking? You've adequately explained the channels you use to do it, but I'm unsure exactly how you break the ice from some guy you don't know in a random company, to a guy willing to go to work to land you a job.

Explain the evolution of this relationship, from cold e-mail, to person willing to take a bullet for you.

Fair enough

I will put it into my original post, check it in a bit.

[Syne]

Thanks for the update. After reading that, I realize that I've actually been networked before by a friend of a friend getting into wealth management. I think he was just using me for practice though because I am pretty poor. He did buy me lunch though.

[CouponWarriorTURBO]

There seems to be alot of networking talk on careers but not a dedicated thread


http://forums.redflagdeals.com/networking-perfect-job-1187578/ (http://forums.redflagdeals.com/networking-perfect-job-1187578/)

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6936/ratoncat.jpg

[eiad77]

I don't often agree with HTTP04, but that's pretty good advice.

[88marty88]

Great thread. Having done this first hand I strongly agree that these days a lot of jobs aren't posted but candidates are hired through referrals. Networking is just as important as having experience/degree these days.

[HTTP04]

Great thread. Having done this first hand I strongly agree that these days a lot of jobs aren't posted but candidates are hired through referrals. Networking is just as important as having experience/degree these days.

The sad reality is even students with high gpa have trouble finding placement

I cant even begin to name all the recent grads who have 3.6+ gpa (uoft scale) but still unemployed.

One person I know did get employed (3.7X something GPA)... at back office as an admin.

Smart guy + decent work experience + ZERO network -> ends up back office.

No doubt if he spent alot of time networking he could have landed his dream front office job.

[nalababe]

The sad reality is even students with high gpa have trouble finding placement

I cant even begin to name all the recent grads who have 3.6+ gpa (uoft scale) but still unemployed.

One person I know did get employed (3.7X something GPA)... at back office as an admin.

Smart guy + decent work experience + ZERO network -> ends up back office.

No doubt if he spent alot of time networking he could have landed his dream front office job.

Reality is that grades are only one piece to the puzzle...and often not as important as some believe.

Was at a meeting with a senior leader of our company (manages a 2 billion dollar sales region). someone ask what he looks for when hiring either junior or senior positions. The answer was simple: hire for hunger. Skills can be taught or supplemented. Behavior, personal inrteraction are more ingrained.

Second interesting point was that when looking to hire, you don't look for the best all around person, but the best fit for the team. There is no perfect candidate, but selected carefully, you can create perfect team.

[smartcdn]

Let's say you got a job at prestigious Research in Motion "RIM" through networking. Now you're 1 of 5000 to be laid off. You think networking would help or did it help? Or would you now rather have been the one who got a more regular job and still working?


There seems to be alot of networking talk on careers but not a dedicated thread so here it is

A little about me, I will be graduating from University (non-target*) this year, average GPA, currently interning at a MM Investment Bank

As some of you already know, I did a buyside intern before the current position and both of these jobs were through NETWORKING

Shoot me couple questions about networking, might be able to give an interesting take from a soon-to-be grad's POV

*My school is one of the best for Accounting (alot of Big 4 hires) but for Finance it is fairly low on radar. It pumps out occasional front office bankers but most end up middle/back office/retail.

When and why did I start networking:
My first ever network started through my boss at one of my past work at one of the Big 5 Banks. One day my boss gave me a contact to his Investment Banker friend and this is when I started reading guides on M&I, WSO, Vault on networking and started getting into it.

From a realistic POV my mark wasnt good enough to make the Big 5 IB cutoffs so I had to look for other ways of getting in: Networking

How do I network:

At first, I networked only with Investment Bankers from Big 5 (RBC, TD, BMO, Scotia, Cibc), while I did manage to make good friendships, I still had trouble getting even an interview.

That is when I decided to change my approach to focusing on Boutique + MM

I use 3 approaches:
1) Cold calling
2) Cold emailing
3) Referrals

FOREWARNING: I am not a networking expert nor do I know everything about networking. This is merely the process I used to obtain my current and past job and, quite frankly, it is what helped me to beat out other competitors from school with much higher GPAs.

How networking is done

1) (Just like every other networking guides say) start with people you know: family, friends, professor, boss, etc

2) Make a nice excel file to keep tabs on all your networks, like mine below, and put in all your contacts above:

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q528/c2qshinakuma/NetworkingList.png

3) Make a list of 20-30 people to start with of people in your field of interest.

How?
Ask your family/friend/professor/boss if they know anyone working in Career X. Alternatively, google/linkedin search those people (this is the method I use 99% of the time)

But HTTP04, google/linkedin search gives me their first+last name but no email address, what do I do???
a) Go to the company website and dig through
b) If it's a company like RBC/TD/CIBC/SCOTIA/BMO/OTHERS, they usually use a generic email like firstname.lastname@company.ca/com.

If a) and b) didnt turn up any email or phone #, delete the person from list, move on.

4) Once you got a good list going with the person + their email address, it's time to break the ice and start networking

5) Keep the message SHORT

Here's a sample email: Hi Mr/Ms/Mrs X, my name is XYZ and I am a current X year student at University of XYZ. I am contacting you because I have an interest in Career X and would like to learn more about this role. I would appreciate the opporunity to have a chat with you over a cup of coffee and talk about your experiences. Thank you, NAME

It's short and up the point.

6) Quite obvious but keep track of all your sent emails (date, time, etc)

7) Play the waiting game, I give the person 5-7 days to reply back before I send another email in the format below:

Hi Mr/Ms/Mrs X, I am just following up to my previous email. I would really appreciate the opportunity to have a chat with you and learn from your experiences. Thank you, NAME

Again, short and sweet.

8) My rule is keep emailing them every 5-7 days until they reply OR if you still get no response after 5 attempts, note it on your excel file and forget about the person for now.

9) The person replied back

From my experiences you will get one of 2 replies:
a) Sorry but I am very busy, blah blah
*In this case, I still send a reply back thanking him anyways and I wait 2 months before trying again.
From this point, continue emailing other people and repeat steps 1-8 until you get a YES answer.

b) Sure, would love to chat, blah blah
*In this case, congrats, you broke the ice and ready to move on to step 10

10) Set up a date

Note: I am not going into details outside of networking, like being prepared with technical questions and whatnot...that is your responsibility. If you f***ed up a meeting because you werent adequately prepared, that is your fault.

IMPORTANT: Before the meeting, internet stalk the person a bit and try to find out a bit about their past: work experience, school, etc. Use common sense, dont stalk to the point where you know where they live, how many kids they have...that is f***ing creepy.


11) THE MEETING
The basics: groom yourself, dress nicely, DONT BE LATE

These are my 2 cents on how you should behave at meetings
a) Think of the meeting as if you are trying to make friends with the person
b) Dont be arrogant/cocky/know-it-all
c) Be confident (demonstrate good body language: strong handshake, upright position, no slouching, etc)
d) Usually the meetings go like this: Introduce yourselves, the person talks about his experiences, you listen and add compliments (dont be too obvious, just stroke his ego a bit so he feels good), THE MOST IMPORTANT PART: SLOWLY DIVERT THE CONVERSATION FROM WORK -> FUN THINGS

^ EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

Why is it important? When you talk about fun things (hobbies, interest outside of work, etc), you build better rapport and helps to build a connection on a more personal level.

It's all about timing, dont suddenly bring up fun topics when the person is talking about something that is totally irrelevant

e) Chat away and at the end you ask him for a small "request"
Simple as, would it be ok if I keep in touch with you?

f) Keep in touch and after a month or so, ask for things like referrals/another meeting/etc
*If the person likes you, you will most likely get a referral/meeting

g) After another month or so, directly express your interest in an intern position

COLD CALLING
Nothing really to it, just pick up the phone with your elevator speech and keep at it.

The trick is to keep following up even if they person says no; be persistent and show your initiative/passion


The above is my basic mini-guide to networking, it's pretty basic and self-explanatory.

If you need more details, you can always look at WSO/M&I guide

[IamToronto]

networking and connections = how the 1% keeps it within themselves

skills? experience? education? dedication? persistence? determination? qualifications? no.. we dont care
you know the CEO's brother? welcome to the company..

[LiAllen]

Thank you for this post OP. I am from UTSC as well looking to get into ib but having trouble networking, mostly because I didn't make many friends in the Management building :facepalm:(technically I am not in the program, just economics major). I will definitely give your strategy a try.

[HTTP04]

Interesting article

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-11-30/wall_street/30457778_1_pickens-young-professionals-bp-capital

Persistence pays off!

[HTTP04]

Reality is that grades are only one piece to the puzzle...and often not as important as some believe.

Was at a meeting with a senior leader of our company (manages a 2 billion dollar sales region). someone ask what he looks for when hiring either junior or senior positions. The answer was simple: hire for hunger. Skills can be taught or supplemented. Behavior, personal inrteraction are more ingrained.

Second interesting point was that when looking to hire, you don't look for the best all around person, but the best fit for the team. There is no perfect candidate, but selected carefully, you can create perfect team.

+1

[1010101010101]

networking and connections = how the 1% keeps it within themselves

skills? experience? education? dedication? persistence? determination? qualifications? no.. we dont care
you know the CEO's brother? welcome to the company..

Good read. But im going to have to agree to this.

[funzone36]

Networking may get you an interview but you will still be competing toe to toe with other interviewees. Then, you may not get the job if you are not the most qualified. Don't expect to get a job without an interview unless you're the son of Lloyd Blankfein.

[SnoopDop]

Hey, your method sounds a lot like what I do to meet girls through online dating. I start with "cold messaging" girls on dating sites, I keep track of the last exchanges with the girl and the info I gather through google/facebook stalking when she gives me her email address, I also play the waiting game to not look desperate.

However when I meet the girls on the first date, I'm often unable to divert the conversation from asking personal questions to talking about fun things and telling hilarious stories, due to being introvert/shy. So I fail to build better rapport and connection on a more personal level and the girls lose interest :cry:.

[Deals1]

so if I don't know anyone, I'm *****ed?

[tylaw83]

so if I don't know anyone, I'm *****ed?

Not quite, but you need to offer SOMETHING.

If you want a job that pays well right off the bat, you need to KNOW something or be able to offer a skillset that's unique and know how to show that off.

[88marty88]

so if I don't know anyone, I'm *****ed?
Its never too late to start. Start focusing on what field interests you and begin making a list of who you feel you can contact and start cold calling. Especially if you're from GTA, thats a very competitive market.

[HTTP04]

Bump, mini-update.

Hopefully my guide was useful to someone

[flyinggonzo]

Good guide and good hustle - it'll serve you well in your career.

[tcharged]

Great thread.. Networking truly is a key to being successful at a young (and even older) age. But it specifically applies to new grads!

[HTTP04]

Good guide and good hustle - it'll serve you well in your career.


Great thread.. Networking truly is a key to being successful at a young (and even older) age. But it specifically applies to new grads!

Thank you.

Actually quite a number of other bankers I've met said the exact same things above.

[HTTP04]

Hey, your method sounds a lot like what I do to meet girls through online dating. I start with "cold messaging" girls on dating sites, I keep track of the last exchanges with the girl and the info I gather through google/facebook stalking when she gives me her email address, I also play the waiting game to not look desperate.

However when I meet the girls on the first date, I'm often unable to divert the conversation from asking personal questions to talking about fun things and telling hilarious stories, due to being introvert/shy. So I fail to build better rapport and connection on a more personal level and the girls lose interest :cry:.

It's a bit hard to explain but if you keep doing it you start to know when to slowly transition the chat to a more personal topic (interests).

Also, I think it's useful to do a healthy level of internet 'stalking' on the person you're meeting- find out their interests, hobbies, etc.

If you internet stalk them to the point that you know where they live + how many kids they have... that's a little too far.

[TodayHello]

Bumping this .... there's value here .....

How have others structured their networking efforts?

[cbr600]

networking does work. well atleast it did for me..

after 2 month of job searching and sending out 30 tailored online applications, I received exactly 0 call backs. So I did some cold emailing to senior engineers of the companies i wanted to work at. So far, I've sent 3 emails. The first recipient replied and i ended up calling him. They weren't hiring new grads at the time but asked me to send him my resume anyways. The second one emailed back saying there's EIT positions opening in 2 months. The 3rd one emailed back and offered my a interview and now two week later i've landed a job with them.

so lesson here fellow RFDers is to avoid online applications like the plague. Unless you have a lot of experience or your resume matches all the keywords in the job posting to get past the filtering software.

[sunnysideup1]

networking does work. well atleast it did for me..

after 2 month of job searching and sending out 30 tailored online applications, I received exactly 0 call backs. So I did some cold emailing to senior engineers of the companies i wanted to work at. So far, I've sent 3 emails. The first recipient replied and i ended up calling him. They weren't hiring new grads at the time but asked me to send him my resume anyways. The second one emailed back saying there's EIT positions opening in 2 months. The 3rd one emailed back and offered my a interview and now two week later i've landed a job with them.

so lesson here fellow RFDers is to avoid online applications like the plague. Unless you have a lot of experience or your resume matches all the keywords in the job posting to get past the filtering software.

Did your emails simply say something along the lines of Hi my name is xxx, I have xxx experience, and I am interested in your company because of xxx?

[cbr600]

No, you don't want it to sound generic or copy and pasted. You must do some research into the company AND the person you are emailing. Explain to them what your interests are, why you are interested and what you've done in the field (if you don't have professional experience, at least do some relatable projects at home).
Then play on their sympathy a bit by saying it's really hard to find a entry level position blah blah, but don't sound desperate and DO NOT send them your resume on a cold email. this is about networking, not asking him for a favor/job. If they want to help you, they'll ask you for a resume. If they don't, sending a resume won't help.

and lastly, be prepared for a non-formal on the spot phone interview if they give you their number. so SELL yourself and good luck ;)

[sunnysideup1]

Ah, I see. I asked because I thought it was strange that they emailed you back and immediately interviewed you or gave you info, without you first doing informational interviews or building a relationship with them. Glad to hear it worked out for you!

[oajlu]

so if I don't know anyone, I'm *****ed?

yes...
I am working at Big 5 now, and many of my colleagues are not even graduated from university, but they had referral from relatives when they applied their jobs.
I am pretty sure that applicants graduated from college with internal referral would have much better chance landing an interview than university graduates.

[squagles]

Do the people who you network with know that you track all your social interactions in a spreadsheet? Would you be embarrassed if they found out?

[KonaHeiHei]

Any suggestions for Internal Networking? I've been doing same thing as OP for weeks, and I'm not even sure this is leading to anything helpful.

Given current economy, maybe just a sign of the times?

[JK400]

Do the people who you network with know that you track all your social interactions in a spreadsheet? Would you be embarrassed if they found out?

I often bring out my printed and laminated colour excel socialization spreadsheets with me to my networking dinners, and me and the gents will discuss it over a steak and glass of wine.

[TodayHello]

Any suggestions for Internal Networking? I've been doing same thing as OP for weeks, and I'm not even sure this is leading to anything helpful.

Given current economy, maybe just a sign of the times?

Have a plan, have a purpose, and demonstrate value ..... they're taking time out of their day to chat with you, so don't be a wally. Sharpen your skills with the lower value contacts and work your way up ....

As for internal networking - youve been given the golden keys (corporate directory).

[TodayHello]

I often bring out my printed and laminated colour excel socialization spreadsheets with me to my networking dinners, and me and the gents will discuss it over a steak and glass of wine.

You must have read my blog post and stole my ideas.

[HTTP04]

Do the people who you network with know that you track all your social interactions in a spreadsheet? Would you be embarrassed if they found out?

What JK400 said


I often bring out my printed and laminated colour excel socialization spreadsheets with me to my networking dinners, and me and the gents will discuss it over a steak and glass of wine.

In all seriousness, they have no way of knowing and it's such an odd question to ask.

It's like asking me if I keep track of all my friends in an Excel spreadsheet and write down all the social interactions I had with them.

[HTTP04]

Any suggestions for Internal Networking? I've been doing same thing as OP for weeks, and I'm not even sure this is leading to anything helpful.

Given current economy, maybe just a sign of the times?

Are you following up to the initial meetings?


Have a plan, have a purpose, and demonstrate value ..... they're taking time out of their day to chat with you, so don't be a wally. Sharpen your skills with the lower value contacts and work your way up ....

As for internal networking - youve been given the golden keys (corporate directory).

^

[szetolf]

The guide is pretty good and tho I am not the type that networks well at all...sigh..

I guess to further Kona's question...

Even with the corporate directory, do or would you use the same method and approach to talk to the internal staff? Like let's say in the in the big 5 banks or big corporation and out of the blue, would you email a MD in Asset Management from a junior admin position or a CSR in retail banking or some other department with (just making examples) "Hi, my name is.....let's have a chat"? Keep in mind of the "office politics" even tho your manager know you are looking... since one false move = MD emailing your manager...

I guess if it internal networking within the same department, it's easier since at least people sort of know you so you can just approach them.

Also, how did you find your current employer? Was it a friend of friend or previous boss's friends? Or did you have a list of small/boutique firm that you targeted and googled/linkedin-ed who's in it?

Ohhh one more question, would you say big corp is a different game?

[HTTP04]

The guide is pretty good and tho I am not the type that networks well at all...sigh..

I guess to further Kona's question...

Even with the corporate directory, do or would you use the same method and approach to talk to the internal staff? Like let's say in the in the big 5 banks or big corporation and out of the blue, would you email a MD in Asset Management from a junior admin position or a CSR in retail banking or some other department with (just making examples) "Hi, my name is.....let's have a chat"? Keep in mind of the "office politics" even tho your manager know you are looking... since one false move = MD emailing your manager...

I guess if it internal networking within the same department, it's easier since at least people sort of know you so you can just approach them.

Also, how did you find your current employer? Was it a friend of friend or previous boss's friends? Or did you have a list of small/boutique firm that you targeted and googled who's in it?

Ohhh one more question, would you say big corp is a different game?

When I was working at one of the banks during undergrad I still networked with people in other departments.

I just said something like: "Hi, I'm HTTP working as a summer YXZ at Bank ABC. I am interested in career X and wanted to learn more about your role, is there a time where we can have a quick chat"

Current employer was through a referral from another person I have met.

For big companies, I always network with analysts/associates first then try to get a referral to a VP/MD. Smaller companies I go straight for the MD/partner as they have almost all the hiring power.

[Screenshot]

When I was working at one of the banks during undergrad I still networked with people in other departments.

I just said something like: "Hi, I'm HTTP working as a summer YXZ at Bank ABC. I am interested in career X and wanted to learn more about your role, is there a time where we can have a quick chat"

Current employer was through a referral from another person I have met.

For big companies, I always network with analysts/associates first then try to get a referral to a VP/MD. Smaller companies I go straight for the MD/partner as they have almost all the hiring power.

are you a Caucasian and good looking? if you are, you will move up faster as well.

[HTTP04]

are you a Caucasian and good looking? if you are, you will move up faster as well.

Haha, you know what, I have read about that study regarding race vs promotion ... interesting read.

[dsg512]

Great thread. I've had no luck online and kinda lost enthusiasm with the networking angle but this thread has motivated me to begin anew, thanks.

[bluejazzy]

Heres a tip: go on LinkedIn, search the company + HR or recruiter. Cite the job posting and job posting number and attach your resume and email it to the person e-mail which is almost always firstname.lastname@company.com/ca or lastname.firstname@company.com/ca. When in doubt use BCC. Have had success a few times doing this where my resume got directly forwarded to the hiring manager, which is a lot better than uploading your resume on their online portal. This to me is the true meaning of using LinkedIn in a remotely useful way

[Xenon135]

Heres a tip: go on LinkedIn, search the company + HR or recruiter. Cite the job posting and job posting number and attach your resume and email it to the person e-mail which is almost always firstname.lastname@company.com/ca or lastname.firstname@company.com/ca. When in doubt use BCC. Have had success a few times doing this where my resume got directly forwarded to the hiring manager, which is a lot better than uploading your resume on their online portal. This to me is the true meaning of using LinkedIn in a remotely useful way

That is pretty fail - if you are not applying to their website. Sending your resume to them via e-mail may be just a flag for them to go check your application. Do you really think they want to hire people who can't follow instructions and spam their e-mail box? I am not going to say that this is always the case, but its better to be on the safe side.

[tcharged]

That is pretty fail - if you are not applying to their website. Sending your resume to them via e-mail may be just a flag for them to go check your application. Do you really think they want to hire people who can't follow instructions and spam their e-mail box? I am not going to say that this is always the case, but its better to be on the safe side.

Absolutely incorrect. By emailing directly shows you're interested in the job and you really want to sit down and go on to the next step in the process - meeting face to face to interview. Being aggressive definitely helps applying for jobs.

[cbr600]

That is pretty fail - if you are not applying to their website. Sending your resume to them via e-mail may be just a flag for them to go check your application. Do you really think they want to hire people who can't follow instructions and spam their e-mail box? I am not going to say that this is always the case, but its better to be on the safe side.

what have you got to lose if you did the online application and haven't heard back in few weeks? life is about taking chances and doing things other's won't do to achieve what you want

[C_C]

The worst they can do is ignore it.

[Xenon135]

Absolutely incorrect. By emailing directly shows you're interested in the job and you really want to sit down and go on to the next step in the process - meeting face to face to interview. Being aggressive definitely helps applying for jobs.

what have you got to lose if you did the online application and haven't heard back in few weeks? life is about taking chances and doing things other's won't do to achieve what you want

Maybe you should both re-read the post I was responding to, plus I never said don't email the employer. What I said was that it is fail if you e-mail the employer without applying to their system. "Have had success a few times doing this where my resume got directly forwarded to the hiring manager, which is a lot better than uploading your resume on their online portal."

I wouldn't have said anything if the poster had said, "Have had success a few times doing this where my resume got directly forwarded to the hiring manager, which is a lot better than just/only/simply/exclusively uploading your resume on their online portal."

The truth is many large businesses will require you to be in their system for the human resources department to further you in the hiring process. If you've ever tried to network or had success in it surely you would know this.

[cbr600]

The truth is many large businesses will require you to be in their system for the human resources department to further you in the hiring process. If you've ever tried to network or had success in it surely you would know this.

networking is how i landed my job. Regardless whether or not its a large or small business, getting your resume in the right hand will give you a huge edge over the competition. If the hiring manager likes your resume they'll tell you to apply online after the fact.

[KonaHeiHei]

The guide is pretty good and tho I am not the type that networks well at all...sigh..

I guess to further Kona's question...

Even with the corporate directory, do or would you use the same method and approach to talk to the internal staff?

Yes, this is exactly what I've done. I have a few possible interviews because of it as well. Made some phone calls and sent some emails. Just be nice and respect their time.
Make sure HR is ok with it, or that there's some company guidelines for doing this in place.

To an earlier question, yes I follow up. But I also look at this as law of averages. You might not always get a response but the responses you do get are likely out of genuine interest.

[Xenon135]

networking is how i landed my job. Regardless whether or not its a large or small business, getting your resume in the right hand will give you a huge edge over the competition. If the hiring manager likes your resume they'll tell you to apply online after the fact.

Do you take the chance that the job posting closes in that time?

[cbr600]

Do you take the chance that the job posting closes in that time?

i applied for the job and didn't hear anything for two weeks so i emailed them directly. They emailed back offering a interview and i got the job a week later. My initial online application probably went straight to the recycling if it even got that far with all the keyword filtering

[Patreeck7]

HTTP...when are you posting your experience on cold calling? Give us techniques you used in cold calling and examples. Will you?

[HTTP04]

HTTP...when are you posting your experience on cold calling? Give us techniques you used in cold calling and examples. Will you?

Yep, will do ... I will post it up over the weekend.

Just a little side note, cold calling is somewhat of a last resort after you exhausted all your contacts with no results.

[Mayosandwich]

When you dont know anyone you pay the price and thats what Im going through right now.

[C_C]

When you dont know anyone you pay the price and thats what Im going through right now.

Relationships take time to built, they won't happen overnight. You do have to start somewhere though. You mentioned going to networking events and how nobody was helping you. You won't be able to get help that fast. You need to put in the time and effort to build a connection that can potentially do so in the future. That means helping others out too, with insights/referrals etc. Connect with the people you meet on social media - LinkedIn in particular (although I've noticed that fewer people will link with me despite my custom intros, now that I'm unemployed) but it's all good, there's still a bunch that reach out to me and vice versa. Start conversations and keep up with people....no matter how fruitless it can seem at first, it can definitely feel this way. The person you expect to help you the least, might be the one that does the most. You never know who it will come from.

and again, no expectations. Don't expect things from other people. People look out for number #1, you will occasionally meet someone willing to do more (I think I'm one of those people, I've helped a few folks out and their surprise is always interesting to hear).

You have to create and build a reputation, slowly but surely. Put the time in. This step can't be avoided.

I used to be very introverted and didn't like talking to more senior people (I still don't, its a hang up of mine that I'm working on). I'd just get nervous....but remind yourself ...these people are all human. Looking at so many LinkedIn profiles and work histories....there is no cohesive way to make things happen, everyone's path is different.

[HTTP04]

Relationships take time to built, they won't happen overnight. You do have to start somewhere though. You mentioned going to networking events and how nobody was helping you. You won't be able to get help that fast. You need to put in the time and effort to build a connection that can potentially do so in the future. That means helping others out too, with insights/referrals etc. Connect with the people you meet on social media - LinkedIn in particular (although I've noticed that fewer people will link with me despite my custom intros, now that I'm unemployed) but it's all good, there's still a bunch that reach out to me and vice versa. Start conversations and keep up with people....no matter how fruitless it can seem at first, it can definitely feel this way. The person you expect to help you the least, might be the one that does the most. You never know who it will come from.

and again, no expectations. Don't expect things from other people. People look out for number #1, you will occasionally meet someone willing to do more (I think I'm one of those people, I've helped a few folks out and their surprise is always interesting to hear).

You have to create and build a reputation, slowly but surely. Put the time in. This step can't be avoided.

I used to be very introverted and didn't like talking to more senior people (I still don't, its a hang up of mine that I'm working on). I'd just get nervous....but remind yourself ...these people are all human. Looking at so many LinkedIn profiles and work histories....there is no cohesive way to make things happen, everyone's path is different.

^

[Mayosandwich]

Relationships take time to built, they won't happen overnight. You do have to start somewhere though. You mentioned going to networking events and how nobody was helping you. You won't be able to get help that fast. You need to put in the time and effort to build a connection that can potentially do so in the future. That means helping others out too, with insights/referrals etc. Connect with the people you meet on social media - LinkedIn in particular (although I've noticed that fewer people will link with me despite my custom intros, now that I'm unemployed) but it's all good, there's still a bunch that reach out to me and vice versa. Start conversations and keep up with people....no matter how fruitless it can seem at first, it can definitely feel this way. The person you expect to help you the least, might be the one that does the most. You never know who it will come from.

and again, no expectations. Don't expect things from other people. People look out for number #1, you will occasionally meet someone willing to do more (I think I'm one of those people, I've helped a few folks out and their surprise is always interesting to hear).

You have to create and build a reputation, slowly but surely. Put the time in. This step can't be avoided.

I used to be very introverted and didn't like talking to more senior people (I still don't, its a hang up of mine that I'm working on). I'd just get nervous....but remind yourself ...these people are all human. Looking at so many LinkedIn profiles and work histories....there is no cohesive way to make things happen, everyone's path is different.

The only thing is how do you start. I used to network all the time, met a few great people but want to know how many keep in touch with me today? 0. I sent emails, many emails over the past few years, texts wanting to see how they are doing and no replies. Sure I have no friends but im not going to harass anyone to be my friend. I Sure you meet people, but taking it past that initial meet is another story. Now these few people, we used to network together and go to other meets and events together but eventually it stopped cause they all gave up as they found networking a huge waste of time. So I was a lone wolf for awhile going solo and I went to quite a few, but eventually i phased out as well. For the most part, (especially meetup.com as that site is notorious for this), people just go to have something to do for the night and couldnt care less about making friendships long term. For the business meets, Ive had nothing but sales maggots harass me for months down the road wanting to meet for coffee so they can be my financial advisor.

[C_C]

Don't expect things from other people. People look out for number #1.

I don't keep in contact with peers from school. I'll reach out rarely and don't expect a response. People are weird these days, at least the ones I know. People change all the time, or the 'friendship' only worked on at a certain time at a certain place. You can't force it to continue. Friendship goes both ways, effort has to be made on both sides. I don't receive that same effort so I don't bother with a lot of people anymore. Forget them. People don't want to have deep or meaningful conversations, it scares them, they're paranoid or they feel judged. They like to keep it on the surface, pretend everything great. When you ask how it's going, how's the job search? the response is always a generic 'its okay.' People my age are....interesting. I don't force it anymore, its not worth it. I realized after a point that if someone wants to maintain a relationship with you, they will find a way, not excuses.

Like I said in another thread, when someone needs something from you, they come running. When they're fine and everything is great....you don't exist.

Don't view networking as building friendships. Thats not what it is. It's getting someone to know you, your face, your name and building on it from there.

Go on LinkedIn and see who else you know, spend some time researching.

Figure out what field you want to pursue, what title etc. and go from there.

There are plenty of good tips in this thread for how to start. Its the motivation and getting over the fear of doing so that's the issue with most people. What do you have to lose? Try and be positive about it and don't fall back on your usual 'this is stupid, everyone is stupid' spiel.

That's what I'm currently doing. I haven't cold called anyone yet and my 'networking' is more passive at the moment. My field allows for this though, my field has options to build relationships etc. in different ways.

[Mayosandwich]

Don't expect things from other people. People look out for number #1.

To make friendships, at the very least you need 2 way communication. Without it, its a dead horse, I move on and ditch these people.


I don't keep in contact with peers from school. I'll reach out rarely and don't expect a response. People are weird these days, at least the ones I know. People change all the time, or the 'friendship' only worked on at a certain time at a certain place. You can't force it to continue. Friendship goes both ways, effort has to be made on both sides. I don't receive that same effort so I don't bother with a lot of people anymore. Forget them. People don't want to have deep or meaningful conversations, it scares them, they're paranoid or they feel judged. They like to keep it on the surface, pretend everything great. When you ask how it's going, how's the job search? the response is always a generic 'its okay.' People my age are....interesting. I don't force it anymore, its not worth it. I realized after a point that if someone wants to maintain a relationship with you, they will find a way, not excuses.

Even if I dont say hi again, I may just get in touch with them asking a general question or something that relates to them. If they dont want to answer to hell with them. For instance, there was one person I used to be friends with like 6 years ago and I tried and tried getting a hold of him to get reconnected again but have never heard back. Finally just this past week, he posted on my facebook Happy Birthday. I didnt say thanks or anything (which I normally would) cause I figure its mostly an automated message from him and to give him a taste of his own medicine. What goes around, comes around.


Go on LinkedIn and see who else you know, spend some time researching.

Figure out what field you want to pursue, what title etc. and go from there.

There are plenty of good tips in this thread for how to start. Its the motivation and getting over the fear of doing so that's the issue with most people. What do you have to lose? Try and be positive about it and don't fall back on your usual 'this is stupid, everyone is stupid' speil.

I used to use LinkedIn daily but I have no faith in it anymore. I used to send out messages and pretty much never got replies so I gave up. The site is nothing more than a playground for people to spam their business newletters. Ive even met up and gone for coffee with a handful of people off LinkedIn cause we both wanted to connect, only to find out they just wanted to spam their services to me in person.

[C_C]

Employers increasingly rely on internal referrals in hiring (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/business/employers-increasingly-rely-on-internal-referrals-in-hiring.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=general&src=me&)

'Among corporate recruiters, Mr. Sullivan said, random applicants from Internet job sites are sometimes referred to as “Homers,” after the lackadaisical, doughnut-eating Homer Simpson. The most desirable candidates, nicknamed “purple squirrels” because they are so elusive, usually come recommended.'

[Rainne]

Employers increasingly rely on internal referrals in hiring (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/business/employers-increasingly-rely-on-internal-referrals-in-hiring.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=general&src=me&)

'Among corporate recruiters, Mr. Sullivan said, random applicants from Internet job sites are sometimes referred to as “Homers,” after the lackadaisical, doughnut-eating Homer Simpson. The most desirable candidates, nicknamed “purple squirrels” because they are so elusive, usually come recommended.'

..Well, duh. You have some credible and trustworthy vouching for you. They put their job / reptuation on the line.

I would definitely prioritize an internal recommendation (after proper screening) than a stranger + take a chance.

[world25]

Networking is weird.

It's funny how when you need help finding a job...everyone disappears...

When you finally have a good job...you have random people on MSN ask you: "how are you doing" then immediately jump into "Do you know if your company is hiring?"

The worst situation is when you apply for job at a company that your friend works for (you found out through research)...and he/she keeps her/his mouth sealed and doesn't reveal which company he/she works for but know you applied (because you told your friend) and he/she doesn't vouch for you.

[Phlegmbot]

Networking is weird.

It's funny how when you need help finding a job...everyone disappears...

When you finally have a good job...you have random people on MSN ask you: "how are you doing" then immediately jump into "Do you know if your company is hiring?"

The worst situation is when you apply for job at a company that your friend works for (you found out through research)...and he/she keeps her/his mouth sealed and doesn't reveal which company he/she works for but know you applied (because you told your friend) and he/she doesn't vouch for you.

Dude, you're supposed to always be building your contacts, even when you're happily employed. Build up your Rolodex so that you have a lot of people you can call upon if you ever need to.

Also your 'friend' is doing the right thing. You should never mix business and pleasure.

[dc200]

am i the only one who thinks that making friends at your places of employment/coop/internship is more useful than "networking"? just put yourself in their position and think about it. would you go out of your way to help an intern or coworker whom you barely knew outside of work? i probably wouldn't. if on the other hand they were my friend, then it's an entirely different story.