Recommend my first DSLR camera?

[retteas]

i am a beginner. should i buy new or used? what should i look for (and beware of if i buy used)? what price should i expect to pay? other suggestions? i have heard great things about canon, is canon the way to go?

[jayt90]

Nikon 5100 offers a lot for $625 with a basic lens. If you don't adapt well to it or one of the Rebels, you can recoup much of your investment on Cr or Kijiji.

[bosoxfanx1]

i am a beginner. should i buy new or used? what should i look for (and beware of if i buy used)? what price should i expect to pay? other suggestions? i have heard great things about canon, is canon the way to go?

I use Nikon professional equipment, but I heard canon starter cameras are decent too. I would look into a canon XSi to start with, a lot of people get that used online from craigslist or kijiji for around 250-300ish, wont loose much there. if you consider yourself a quick learner who outgrows technology quickly, then go and get a suggested nikon d5100, or even the new nikon d3200.

you also don't have to buy DSLR to start with. people who enjoy compact and portability of point and shoot pocketable cameras looking into panasonic GF1, GF2, GF3 or Olympus EP2, EP3, EPL2 or EPL3. those cameras are smaller, but you dont sacrifice too much quality, especially if you are just starting out. I would look into a panasonic gf2, if you are patient you can find one with 14-42mm lens used online for $300-$350

[NuggyBuggy]

not much chance of finding one in stock, no budget was mentioned, and its not technically an SLR, but the Olympus OM-D is simply an awesome camera and I would think an ideal starter camera. Compact , takes great pictures and the IBIS is awesome and makes even the slow kit lens so forgiving, I have a D800 as well but frequently find myself bringing the OMD instead. before I got the D800, seriously considered selling my d700 and my collecting of big Nikon glass.

[retteas]

i see fs and bb has their lowest priced canon dslr at 500ish, so can i find something like that used for maybe 250?

i like canon, thier cameras are awesome, should i stick with canon? or are other brands good too?

[samberkun]

I bought a sony a300 for 250$ with under 1000 shots on it…. There are tons of cheap lenses for it by sony and Minolta as well….

[nagasadow]

i see fs and bb has their lowest priced canon dslr at 500ish, so can i find something like that used for maybe 250?

i like canon, thier cameras are awesome, should i stick with canon? or are other brands good too?

Well whats your budget and what type of photography you want to do?


Eith nothing known we could be recommending Nikon D4's/ Canon 1D's when in reality you want a cheap rebel xs.....

[retteas]

my budget is around 500 new or 250 used, i am loooking for a starter dslr

[vero95]

try to find a used nikon D40. it's a gem

[retteas]

does it have to be nikon? what about canon? i have a canon pt and shoot and the user interface is amazing, the other cameras i have tried (fuji, and olympus) have terible user interfaces, is canon the best? canon

what features should i look for? i am looking to replace my pt and shoot. should i look for live preview?

[boblobob]

does it have to be nikon? what about canon? i have a canon pt and shoot and the user interface is amazing, the other cameras i have tried (fuji, and olympus) have terible user interfaces, is canon the best? canon

what features should i look for? i am looking to replace my pt and shoot. should i look for live preview?

retteas, it may be helpful for you to consider why you want to replace your point and shoot. are your images 'blurry'? do you not like the colour cast/white balance? do you find that it doesn't work well in low-light situations (i.e. indoors/at a restaurant) without having to use a flash? do you not have enough zoom? the pictures can't go wide-angle enough?

i've personally picked up a preloved/used sony nex3 to replace my point and shoot.

[retteas]

im replacing cause the camera i got is broken

upgrading to dslr to kick it up a notch


i see a lot of 18-55mm lens are the the standard? what does the numbers mean?

[rf134a]

What do you mean by "kick it up a notch"? Since you don't understand that 18-55 means focal length (wide angle to roughly 1:1 zoom), it may be best to pickup a higher-end camera like the Canon S100 or Sony RX100. Both with a tiny sensors compared to a DSLR but with updated sensors that will rival old, tired DSLRs. My guess is you'll be using the green rectangle (full auto), so it won't be any better for quality. In fact, the slow kit lenses will probably mean fewer keeper photos.

Yes, DSLR enthusiasts will poo-poo the idea of a compact rivaling the quality of a an old DSLR in full auto mode, but technology has made taking photos much simpler for newbies. The numbers don't lie.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons100
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sony-dsc-rx100/

Unfair comparison:
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-S100-vs-Nikon_D40

[kennyhohoho]

im replacing cause the camera i got is broken

upgrading to dslr to kick it up a notch


i see a lot of 18-55mm lens are the the standard? what does the numbers mean?

Unless you're willing to invest the time and learn about photography, and eventually invest more money into lenses, flashes, etc. I would not buy a DSLR.

If you're expecting to buy a DSLR and instantly take better photos than a point and shoot without taking the time to learn the proper techniques, you're better off going with a point and shoot.

[retteas]

What do you mean by "kick it up a notch"? Since you don't understand that 18-55 means focal length (wide angle to roughly 1:1 zoom), it may be best to pickup a higher-end camera like the Canon S100 or Sony RX100. Both with a tiny sensors compared to a DSLR but with updated sensors that will rival old, tired DSLRs. My guess is you'll be using the green rectangle (full auto), so it won't be any better for quality. In fact, the slow kit lenses will probably mean fewer keeper photos.

Yes, DSLR enthusiasts will poo-poo the idea of a compact rivaling the quality of a an old DSLR in full auto mode, but technology has made taking photos much simpler for newbies. The numbers don't lie.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons100
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sony-dsc-rx100/

Unfair comparison:
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-S100-vs-Nikon_D40

woah woah woah, a point and shoot camera can shoot better pictures than DSLR? when did this happen? does this only apply to high end P&S compared to low end DSLRs? this changes everything! then what inferior DSLR cameras should i avoid? i don't want to be get a DSLR and be outclassed by a simple P&S? how do these camera companies stay on business if a $250 high end point and shoot takes better photos than a low end $500 DSLR? damn, i got to beware when buying a DSLR now. seems DSLR doesnt automatically mean it is a good camera n e more

[jayt90]

im replacing cause the camera i got is broken

upgrading to dslr to kick it up a notch


i see a lot of 18-55mm lens are the the standard? what does the numbers mean?


An 18-55mm zoom offers a normal visual angle, the way you view the world. There is also a slight wide angle and telephoto zoom adjustment, so that you don't have to walk forward or backward to frame a shot. 18mm is wide angle, 35mm is normal, 55mm is tele. You can buy much longer telephotos and also wider, for a DSLR, but they must have the same mount or lens family as the original kit lens.

I think it is time for you to see a good sales person, and compare models, say, Canon S100, t3i, and Nikon d 5100. A good camera store has your needs in mind, knowing that is the best way to a sale and repeats.
I would avoid the used market until you really know the field. You would be buying 2-5 year old technology, and no help from a good sales person if you go classified.

[retteas]

i live close to a henrys stoer i will drop by some time.

i see on the sight for the dslr category there are:

Brand
CANON (40)
DENTAL PACKAGE (4)
FUJI (1)
NIKON (74)
OLYMPUS (33)
PANASONIC (18)
PENTAX (22)
SAMSUNG (7)
SIGMA (1)
SONY (32)
Z-OLYMPUS (2)

40 canons compared to 74 nikons, are is nikon the big dog in the dslr game? i always knew canon was big since they make amazing cameras, but it seems nikon is pretty boss too. should i consider nikon as well? i was pretty set on canon cause the user interface is amazing, but how is the user interface on nikon, is it amazing too? is nikon a worthy player to consider?

[NuggyBuggy]

Contrary to some of the advice here, if I were in the OP's shoes I would DEFINITELY be buying used. It sounds like the OP is not really sure what s/he hopes to get from a DSLR. Buying used minimizes the cost of trying it out and selling it back to the used market if it ends up not to be a good fit.

And as for a P&S rivalling old and outdated DSLRs, I'll have to see it to believe it. The responsiveness of my old D80 (a 6+ year old camera at least) blows any P&S you can buy, period. Old technology or not, itwill still take the same beautiful photos it could take when it came out. I recently saw a used D80 listed for $250... it's an awesome camera and, IMO, a no-brainer for a starter camera at that price.

[jayt90]

i live close to a henrys stoer i will drop by some time.

40 canons compared to 74 nikons, are is nikon the big dog in the dslr game? i always knew canon was big since they make amazing cameras, but it seems nikon is pretty boss too. should i consider nikon as well? i was pretty set on canon cause the user interface is amazing, but how is the user interface on nikon, is it amazing too? is nikon a worthy player to consider?
Nikon was king of the hill until Canon eclipsed them in the 90's. They are both very competent, but Canon outsells all DSLR brands, due to marketing, R&D, and general excellence. Nikon has been making gains in recent years, and most photographers would be happy with either, but once you start a system, it is difficult to switch.

When you go to Henry's, ask for a CPC (Certified Photographic Consultant), the cream of the crop. Even if one is not on hand, they will treat you with respect just for asking.

[thinfilms]

Contrary to some of the advice here, if I were in the OP's shoes I would DEFINITELY be buying used. It sounds like the OP is not really sure what s/he hopes to get from a DSLR. Buying used minimizes the cost of trying it out and selling it back to the used market if it ends up not to be a good fit.

+1. I think this is the way to go.

Derp around for a few months with it. If you think it's something you'd want to pursue, sell it again and upgrade.

Worst case scenario, sell it for a P&S if you find out its not for you.

[retteas]

best place to buy used? rfd bst? craigslist? ebay? other? what do you suggest and why?

anything to beware of when buying used? do people scam cameras? hard to believe but I want to watch out for myself.

[rcxAsh]

woah woah woah, a point and shoot camera can shoot better pictures than DSLR? when did this happen? does this only apply to high end P&S compared to low end DSLRs? this changes everything! then what inferior DSLR cameras should i avoid? i don't want to be get a DSLR and be outclassed by a simple P&S? how do these camera companies stay on business if a $250 high end point and shoot takes better photos than a low end $500 DSLR? damn, i got to beware when buying a DSLR now. seems DSLR doesnt automatically mean it is a good camera n e more
There were a couple things being referred to in that post, so it is not true for all situations, but in some situations it is.

One of the largest things to take into consideration is the lens. A lot of the better point and shoot cameras come with better lenses attached to them than the kit lens that comes bundled with a standard consumer DSLR.

Because of that, in certain situations, the point and shoot may yield better results to someone who has not taken the time to understand how to best use a DSLR with an inferior kit lens. An experienced user may increase the ISO on a DSLR with a slower kit lens to compensate, whereas the point and shoot user may not need to worry about this because they have a faster lens overall. So a lot of it goes back to how much are you willing to stomach learning-wise.

A DSLR will not immediately bring you better photos.

It is worth asking how serious you are about learning photography. If you are sure you want to learn, then get any entry level Canon or Nikon kit and you will probably be fine (agree with the comments on buying used as you will save a lot).

As an anecdotal comment though, I have a friend who has the entry level Rebel (I think maybe the T2 or T3, which is the cheapest Canon DSLR you can get). We were at a friend's birthday BBQ, but she did not bring her camera so I let her use my Panasonic GH1 for that day (with 20mm f/1.7 lens). After using it for some time, her comment to me was that she loved my camera and found that it took really good pictures and was very easy to use.

So it wasn't a DSLR, yet she found it to be better for her use than her DSLR.

If I were to guess why she found it better to use than her Canon Rebel, I might think it was for reasons such as:
1) More flexible autofocus system (for example more autofocus "points"; the GH1 has something like "23" zones).
2) Full-time live view - this allowed her to use the camera as if it were a point and shoot, whether using the screen or the viewfinder
3) Better lens - the 20mm f/1.7 lens is NOT a typical kit lens - which begs the question, will you also buy better lenses?

I would suggest to go to a store and try out different cameras. It's a great way to see what you like or dislike. Maybe bring an SD card with you too to bring home some photos to look at from the various cameras.

[M1K3Z0R]

A DSLR will not immediately bring you better photos...

I would suggest to go to a store and try out different cameras. It's a great way to see what you like or dislike. Maybe bring an SD card with you too to bring home some photos to look at from the various cameras.

This is often a very much understated tip. Different cameras have different button positions and ergonomics, which only you can really decide what best suits you. A DSLR is often much more bulky and heavier than a point and shoot camera, and as a result you might not be carrying it around as much; image quality becomes meaningless if you miss a shot!

The D3100 and D3200 has a built in guide mode for beginners that may be of use to you in helping you take "better" photos. A used camera such as a D3100 or D40 paired with a prime lens (35mm, 50mm f/1.8) will get you very nice shots. That said, it depends what you take pictures of, and a prime lens trades versatility for performance and sharpness. You may need another lens that "zooms" farther and costs more, but if you get a lens that is for up close AND has zoom, it will be a slight compromise on image quality, be expensive, and add weight and size to your camera. It is in this area that point and shoot cameras are better for some people, since you don't have to change lenses and the quality is usually good enough for daytime use and well-lit rooms.

[retteas]

There were a couple things being referred to in that post, so it is not true for all situations, but in some situations it is.

One of the largest things to take into consideration is the lens. A lot of the better point and shoot cameras come with better lenses attached to them than the kit lens that comes bundled with a standard consumer DSLR.

Because of that, in certain situations, the point and shoot may yield better results to someone who has not taken the time to understand how to best use a DSLR with an inferior kit lens. An experienced user may increase the ISO on a DSLR with a slower kit lens to compensate, whereas the point and shoot user may not need to worry about this because they have a faster lens overall. So a lot of it goes back to how much are you willing to stomach learning-wise.

A DSLR will not immediately bring you better photos.

It is worth asking how serious you are about learning photography. If you are sure you want to learn, then get any entry level Canon or Nikon kit and you will probably be fine (agree with the comments on buying used as you will save a lot).

As an anecdotal comment though, I have a friend who has the entry level Rebel (I think maybe the T2 or T3, which is the cheapest Canon DSLR you can get). We were at a friend's birthday BBQ, but she did not bring her camera so I let her use my Panasonic GH1 for that day (with 20mm f/1.7 lens). After using it for some time, her comment to me was that she loved my camera and found that it took really good pictures and was very easy to use.

So it wasn't a DSLR, yet she found it to be better for her use than her DSLR.

If I were to guess why she found it better to use than her Canon Rebel, I might think it was for reasons such as:
1) More flexible autofocus system (for example more autofocus "points"; the GH1 has something like "23" zones).
2) Full-time live view - this allowed her to use the camera as if it were a point and shoot, whether using the screen or the viewfinder
3) Better lens - the 20mm f/1.7 lens is NOT a typical kit lens - which begs the question, will you also buy better lenses?

I would suggest to go to a store and try out different cameras. It's a great way to see what you like or dislike. Maybe bring an SD card with you too to bring home some photos to look at from the various cameras.


i would like a versatile camera to replace my point and shoot. dslr seems like a logical step up. i don't mind learning to use it, should be ez. size is not an issue, i can carry it.

been looking at wikipedia at the canon and nikon page, seems the D3200 and the 1100D Rebel T3 Kiss X50 are the entry level ones i should consider. looking back at the older generations i should consider 1000D Rebel XS Kiss F and the D300 and D3100 if i want to go used, although i did read the nikon d3000 is the worst dslr nikon has EVER made, so what to beware of when buying used gear?

so the default lens that comes with the basic dslr is no good? what should one typically upgrade to for a good all-around lens? i don't want to buy new lenses.

so some p&s cameras come with a default (unchangable lens) that is better than the default changable lens on a dslr? what makes a good lens? on my camera i see 5.4-21.6mm 1:2.8-5.8



This is often a very much understated tip. Different cameras have different button positions and ergonomics, which only you can really decide what best suits you. A DSLR is often much more bulky and heavier than a point and shoot camera, and as a result you might not be carrying it around as much; image quality becomes meaningless if you miss a shot!

The D3100 and D3200 has a built in guide mode for beginners that may be of use to you in helping you take "better" photos. A used camera such as a D3100 or D40 paired with a prime lens (35mm, 50mm f/1.8) will get you very nice shots. That said, it depends what you take pictures of, and a prime lens trades versatility for performance and sharpness. You may need another lens that "zooms" farther and costs more, but if you get a lens that is for up close AND has zoom, it will be a slight compromise on image quality, be expensive, and add weight and size to your camera. It is in this area that point and shoot cameras are better for some people, since you don't have to change lenses and the quality is usually good enough for daytime use and well-lit rooms.


i have read terrible things about the guide mode, i won't be needing the guide mode. i can learn to use a camera properly.

what is a good overall lens, like the ones that come on point and shoot cameras? or do all lens have adv and disadvantages? i wont be doing any sports shooting if it helps

[jayt90]

i would like a versatile camera to replace my point and shoot. dslr seems like a logical step up. i don't mind learning to use it, should be ez. size is not an issue, i can carry it.

been looking at wikipedia at the canon and nikon page, seems the D3200 and the 1100D Rebel T3 Kiss X50 are the entry level ones i should consider. looking back at the older generations i should consider 1000D Rebel XS Kiss F and the D300 and D3100 if i want to go used, although i did read the nikon d3000 is the worst dslr nikon has EVER made, so what to beware of when buying used gear?

so the default lens that comes with the basic dslr is no good? what should one typically upgrade to for a good all-around lens? i don't want to buy new lenses.

so some p&s cameras come with a default (unchangable lens) that is better than the default changable lens on a dslr? what makes a good lens? on my camera i see 5.4-21.6mm 1:2.8-5.8




as for M1K3Z0R's quote,

i have read terrible things about the guide mode, i won't be needing the guide mode. i can learn to use a camera properly.

You should know the shutter count in a used body. Most shutters will go 100,000 shots, and the activations are recorded internally. The info may be in the menu, but more likely you will need free software to get the activations.

The kit or default lenses are sharp and low in distortion, certainly better than a long range p/s zoom. The knock against them is plastic barrel, fewer aperture leaves, and small maximum aperture in tele mode, when compared to more expensive primes or zooms. P/s zooms have the same complaints, often worse.
Your camera yields f/5.8 in tele; the kit lenses f/5.6, marginally better. In wide angle, your camera is slightly better at f/2.8 vs f/3.5 for the kits.
For real lens performance, add a used 50mm f/1.8 prime to your kit for <$100, then you'll know what DSLR is all about.

[retteas]

wht happens at over 100,000 shots? does the camera explode? what would be a good number to buy for a used camera? and does nikon cameras have this in the menu? what about canon?

so if i buy a nikon dslr body used, what lens should i start out with? suggestions? but first how much do lens typically cost, beginner ones, but for a quality one, i don't mind paying more if it is worth it to do so.

a camera kit is

body
lens
battery
charger

did i miss anything else?

[jayt90]

The shutter may fail at 100,000 and need a $250 fix, or else you go on to another body in that range. Look for 10,000 or less, and minimal exterior wear, to avoid a commercial camera. On entry DSLR's you probably need the kit disk or a download to retrieve the shutter information. You have the kit info right, but also need a cable to computer, and a software disk.

The only recent Nikons I've used are d5000 and d5100. The d5000 would be a fine intro, but there are other Nikons and Rebels I haven't seen up close.

There is a lot of good stuff in the d5100 and I wish I could have started with it, but it is at the extreme of your range. The d5000 used will be fine, and there other choices I'm not familiar with. I started with a refurbished Canon 20D purchased on eBay, for $700 7 years ago and never regretted it.

Get a used 50mm f/1.8 as a starter. There was a refurbished one at Nikon Mississauga two weeks ago for $50. A no-brainer unless you want a new one at $200 with a 5 year warranty. You can call Nikon to see if they have refurbished bodies. I don't know if Canon Canada is doing this as well.

[boblobob]

3) Better lens - the 20mm f/1.7 lens is NOT a typical kit lens - which begs the question, will you also buy better lenses?



This. A DSLR may not bring the desired return in quality if you get a crappy lens. That's why with film DSLRs, it was common sense to get a used body and save your money for lenses.

The reason a DSLR gets 'better' images right off the bat versus most point and shoot cameras has to do with its sensor size. Photography is about collecting light. The quantity of light matters (sensor/film to put it crudely), as does the quality of the light (lens/focus/aperture).

I've linked to a dpreview graphic herehttp://www.dpreview.com/learn/Articles/Glossary/Camera_System/images/sensorsizes.jpg

Most point and shoots are the smallest sensor size, whereas most DSLRs are APS-C sized.

As to quality, for your reference, I've linked to another dpreview page herehttp://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond5100/19. I would suggest setting the comparison tool to ISO800 or above and sticking with jpg. That way you can compare the quality of various cameras against each other. I would check the feathered area, the shadowed areas, and the areas with text to see what offers better detail. You may be surprised at how Canon fares against a Nikon.

In terms of the difference between a kit lens versus a 'professional' grade fast lens, the difference can be night and day:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-S-17-55mm-f-2.8-IS-USM-Lens-Review.aspx

Remember to factor in the cost of working with compact flash cards, and not sd cards, if you do decide to go the used route.

[M1K3Z0R]

i would like a versatile camera to replace my point and shoot. dslr seems like a logical step up. i don't mind learning to use it, should be ez. size is not an issue, i can carry it.

been looking at wikipedia at the canon and nikon page, seems the D3200 and the 1100D Rebel T3 Kiss X50 are the entry level ones i should consider. looking back at the older generations i should consider 1000D Rebel XS Kiss F and the D300 and D3100 if i want to go used, although i did read the nikon d3000 is the worst dslr nikon has EVER made, so what to beware of when buying used gear?

so the default lens that comes with the basic dslr is no good? what should one typically upgrade to for a good all-around lens? i don't want to buy new lenses...


what is a good overall lens, like the ones that come on point and shoot cameras? or do all lens have adv and disadvantages? i wont be doing any sports shooting if it helps

I would highly recommend a 35mm f/1.8 or a "nifty fifty" 50mm f/1.8 can't go wrong with either, although I personally prefer the 35mm for a wider angle and the fact it works out to ~50mm film equivalent after you factor in the 1.5x crop factor, that and you can always crop to "zoom" in, but you can't expand your field of view with a longer lens.

For general versatility, a standard kit lens 18-55mm VR (vibration reduction) is widely available used (lots of people dump theirs after upgrading) and should let you explore your comfort zone for cheap. Pair this with a 55-200 and you have a nice range to work with, for a relatively low price.

If you want everything in one lens, the 18-200mm is a nice universal lens that's also great for travel - but it will cost you $700+. DSLR photography is an expensive hobby, but keep in mind that lenses hold their value and will more than likely outlive your camera(s). Lenses make a significant difference in the quality of your photos, so it would be best to invest wisely and not look back :)

[boblobob]

wht happens at over 100,000 shots? does the camera explode? what would be a good number to buy for a used camera? and does nikon cameras have this in the menu? what about canon?

so if i buy a nikon dslr body used, what lens should i start out with? suggestions? but first how much do lens typically cost, beginner ones, but for a quality one, i don't mind paying more if it is worth it to do so.

a camera kit is

body
lens
battery
charger

did i miss anything else?


sorry if i missed this in an earlier post, but do you have a budget in mind? that might make it easier to make recommendations.

[Tag0]

Hi OP,

When I first started into the DSLR market (which was not too long ago), I also looked around and tried to learn as much as I could on the different camera bases and lenses available. In the end, a lot of the comparison comes down to hard specifications that one dslr has to another. In short, I think the thread has covered most of the topics that you will probably run into again and again.

However, like others have mentioned, the best method that I learned on how to choose out my camera was to actually visit a camera store and play around with one. You will be amazed on how much you like or dislike a camera based on your own personal experience.

For instance, I was playing around with various Nikon and Canon DSLRs. During which time, I learned to appreciate the weight of a DSLR. I found that the Nikon D5000 felt more like a toy than a camera. I ended up settling down for either the D90/D7000. I ended up picking one of the two up new after nearly-a year of waiting for discounts (by the way, boxing day sales were very disappointing). From there on out, it was practice, unnecessary camera gear shopping, and more practice.

I recommend you visiting your local camera store (say that Henry's story you mentioned), and select a few cameras that have caught your eye. Afterwards, you are welcome to post and I think these awesome RFD posters can assist you in narrowing down your decision.

[retteas]

what about these higher end compact pancake cameras? are they are gimmick? or are they worth considering? they do look kinda neat, better looking than a dslr fo sho, but i am just speculating at the moment, my heart is still set on a dslr.

http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcgf2/Images/allroundview.jpg
http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcgf2/Images/3qtr.jpg




and how come cameras with full frame size sensors are not mainstream yet? the world seems ok settling for aps-c, really?

i will check out camera stores sometime. is henrys good? what about futureshop and bestbuy? what about smaller mom and pop stores? i know no1 really knows much about mom and pop stores and i try to make an effort to not shop at them cause they don't bother to advertise.

[q1w2e3]

I got a nikon d5100, for 625$ + tax, then i spent another 350$ on another 55-200mm lense + filters, it's expensive...

where do you live? I'm surprised that no one has mentioned to NOT buy from best buy/FS as they tend to really be overpriced, i've found aden camera / merkle camera (because my friend knows someone there) is the cheapest so far, in gta/toronto.

but i like my camera, its a new toy :) and easy to use even though i dont take the best photos!

[X820]

Listen, do your homework and go visit your local camera store, henry's, blacks, bestbuy, futureshop, aden, downtown camera, vistek, etc, ask the salesperson questions. Go and play with some of the DSLR, hold it, look around the menu, write down the one that you like and do a research on it then decide. Say if you opted with DSLR, that won't be the last thing that you'll get. Within months, you'll want to get a different lens, tripod, filters, flash etc.

[boblobob]

what about these higher end compact pancake cameras? are they are gimmick? or are they worth considering? they do look kinda neat, better looking than a dslr fo sho, but i am just speculating at the moment, my heart is still set on a dslr.

http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcgf2/Images/allroundview.jpg
http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcgf2/Images/3qtr.jpg




and how come cameras with full frame size sensors are not mainstream yet? the world seems ok settling for aps-c, really?

i will check out camera stores sometime. is henrys good? what about futureshop and bestbuy? what about smaller mom and pop stores? i know no1 really knows much about mom and pop stores and i try to make an effort to not shop at them cause they don't bother to advertise.

The higher end compact pancake cameras (aka mirrorless aka EVIL) tend to fall into micro 4/3 family (Olympus/Panasonic), Sony nex (uses aps-c), Pentax has its own size, and Nikon runs its own family. Their sensors tend to be larger than that in a point and shoot, and they tend to have better glass than point and shoots, so they tend to have better image quality, all other things being equal.

Sensors on DSLRs are larger, and there tends to be many more options in terms of lenses, so image quality can generally be better on a DSLR relative to a the mirrorless camera you show in your post.

As to why APS-C has become the defacto standard even though the crop factor makes understanding focal lengths extremely difficult for someone like me that still shoots on a film SLR, it is simply cost. The sensors are produced in much the same way as CPU chips for computers. They are cut from silicon wafers. You can fit more APS-C sized chips on a silicon wafer than you can fit Full-frame chips on the same size silicon wafer. Once you factor in an error rate in the production, it is easier to understand why Full-Frame DSLRs are as expensive as they are. By the same token, it's why point and shoot digital cameras are so inexpensive (relatively speaking).

But yes, go to a more reputable store to learn. Vistek, Downtown Camera, Aden, 8 Elm (are they still in business?). In my experience, once Henry's staff figure out how much you are looking to spend that determines the amount of attention they'll give to you. I get that they work on commission, but still.

[dreadknot69]

There's pretty nice Nikon bundle on at Best Buy right now, from what I can tell. Has all the lenses a starter package should have.

I bought the similar Canon T3i bundle. I use it primarily for shots of the kids playing sports/dancing, running around, etc, so I have found the zoom lens to be great for those. That lens has proven to be invaluable. I am also a beginner but it seems like these cameras, with the right lenses, make it pretty easy to take 'pro' shots. I've gotten some shots that I would certainly not have gotten with my cell phone camera. :)

Anyway, here's the bundle:

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/-/b9003339.aspx?path=4ea16f82d3e363f4cd2cda91a06d815 2en02

[boblobob]

There's pretty nice Nikon bundle on at Best Buy right now, from what I can tell. Has all the lenses a starter package should have.

I bought the similar Canon T3i bundle. I use it primarily for shots of the kids playing sports/dancing, running around, etc, so I have found the zoom lens to be great for those. That lens has proven to be invaluable. I am also a beginner but it seems like these cameras, with the right lenses, make it pretty easy to take 'pro' shots. I've gotten some shots that I would certainly not have gotten with my cell phone camera. :)

Anyway, here's the bundle:

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/-/b9003339.aspx?path=4ea16f82d3e363f4cd2cda91a06d815 2en02

yea - that's better than than henry's corporate discount pricing. you would literally never need to buy anything for that camera ever again unless you really get into photography and wind up picking up prime lenses and a bounce flash, etc.

[woodstock827]

Depends on your budget and if you plan to upgrade...

If you're on a budget, I suggest going with a used Sony A300.
Pro - cheap, plenty of good old Minolta lenses, in body IS. I have a 28mm/F2.8, 50mm/F1.8 and 70-210mm/F4.. pretty much all the lenses I need and all around $100-$150/each.
Con - uses CF card, fewer used higher-end lenses, indoor quality can struggle a bit due to the poor high ISO noises (especially when compared to newer cameras), can't trade lens with your friends since not many people uses Sony

If you think you will upgrade in the future and have the budget, just wait for sales on Canon or Nikon.. there are often deals for entry level Canons and Nikons (as provided by others here) that should be enough to get you started..

[LaserEnvy]

That's a lot of discussion for such a simple question.

OP, just go into Best Buy or Henry's and buy one of the lower end DSLR packages (T3i, D5100, etc) that come with a standard lens, a telephoto lens, and a memory card. Ask the sales rep to let you try them out. Then you're all set.

[retteas]

what about lens compatabiblity? how do each company play with each other? universal compat or each company is proprietary?

what levels of lenses are there? there is dslr, and micro 4/3, what else? can i swap between levels?

can dslr lens work with film slr lens?

how can i futureproof my lenses?


and to answer a previous q, my budget is about 500 new/250 used. is that realistic?

[boblobob]

what about lens compatabiblity? how do each company play with each other? universal compat or each company is proprietary?

what levels of lenses are there? there is dslr, and micro 4/3, what else? can i swap between levels?

can dslr lens work with film slr lens?

how can i futureproof my lenses?


and to answer a previous q, my budget is about 500 new/250 used. is that realistic?


each company is essentially proprietary. with respect to canon and nikon (and other dslr manufacturers i think), if you get a aps-c designed lens, that will not work on a full frame camera (if you decide to do that in the future). however, full frame lenses will work on aps-c cameras.

i think pentax and sony/minolta have the largest back catalog of used lenses you can dip into right away (i think they haven't changed their mounts since the 1970s/80s essentially). nikon and canon less so, iirc (while their mounts didn't change, i think they both added more features to their mounts in the 1980s/1990s so you won't have autofocus/autoexposure) - someone can correct me on this.

if you use adapters, you can use dslr lenses on micro 4/3, and probably vice versa (i don't know why you would want to use 4/3 lenses on a dslr though) but either way you will lose autofocus/autoexposure capability.

$500 new is pushing your luck, i think. however, that may be enough for a nikon d3200 kit, or a sony nex f3 kit, or the entry sony dslr/slt kit, or a pentax kit, or possible one of the lower end micro 4/3 kits. (by kit, i mean body and lense).

i believe that $250 used is also pushing your luck, but you might be able to swing a first generation or second-generation aps-c dslr that uses compact flash memory and a prime lens (35mm / 50mm) or a kit zoom lens. i can see you being more successful with pentax and sony at that price point, used.

the advantage of a pentax (and sony?) would be that you have image stabilization built into the body, so any lens you put on will be image stabilised and less prone to blurring.

while expensive, if you can afford it, pick up that nikon kit - you will be set for the forseeable future. it remains a good deal. i'm saving my ducats in a kleenex box to one day afford a used nikon d600.

[X820]

Any further questions OP? If not, go out there and try for yourself.

[NuggyBuggy]

But yes, go to a more reputable store to learn. Vistek, Downtown Camera, Aden, 8 Elm (are they still in business?)
No, 8 Elm is not in business anymore - I think they closed last year. Which sucks for me because I finally bought a couple of Leica Ms and their store was a 5 minute walk from my office. Wait, maybe it's a good thing that they're not there.

I wouldn't shop at Aden if I was a newbie. They have good prices but they're tough on returns and they really want to push the sales on the accessories. Plus they're pretty rude. If I were buying an entry level SLR and was dead set on ignoring my own earlier advice to buy used, i'd buy it at Best Buy or Future Shop. They sell the same entry level cameras and have lenient return policies in case the OP decides he hates it in the first two weeks.

[retteas]

are dslr and 4/3 cameras like computers, where you buy what you need and upgrade later cause something always come out better so soon, rather than buying and holding?

same question again as above, but for lenses.

was thinking should i spend so much money for something that will be obsolete so soon.

PS, are all cameras smaller than 4/3 inferior? seems like it. it would be greaaaat if full-frame cameras were mainstream.

[forthewinwin]

I'd just get a Canon Rebel t2i/t3i or 60D, or a Nikon equal of one of those.
Reason why I recommend sticking to these brands is there is a huge used market for lenses and accessories so if you want to buy something in the future that you can't afford to buy new, it'll be easy to acquire it used in great condition.

Personally I'd recommend the 60D because it's a step above the Rebel series from Canon. The primary reason is the better build quality and it feels great in your hands. You can find one used for $600 - 700, roughly the price of a new Rebel.

[forthewinwin]

are dslr and 4/3 cameras like computers, where you buy what you need and upgrade later cause something always come out better so soon, rather than buying and holding?

same question again as above, but for lenses.

was thinking should i spend so much money for something that will be obsolete so soon.

PS, are all cameras smaller than 4/3 inferior? seems like it. it would be greaaaat if full-frame cameras were mainstream.

Lenses change very little and hold most of their value for years.
Camera bodies, on the other hand, depreciate like computers, but at the same time are easier to liquidate when the time comes.

For example, the Canon Rebel XSI/450D 3 years ago was $729 new, and now goes for about $300 on the used market.
The Canon 5D (Original) came out in 2008 - 2009 (either one, but too lazy to Google right now) was $3200 at release, but now is worth around $800 on the used market.

I also owned a Canon 17-40mm f/4L lens from 2004. I purchased it for $680 second-hand at the time. If I recall correctly, the new price was and still is $799 - $899. I sold it last Spring for $600 on local Craigslist, and could have probably got $650 if I were more patient.

My PC was worth about $1350 at the time I made it- 4 years ago, but now I will get roughly $200 - 300 for it.

[superock]

Always invest more in Lenses than Camera bodies.

With that said, OP, if you have the intention of becoming a more serious hobbyist/doing it professionally then I would suggest going the Canon/Nikon route. They have a large range of lenses both pro and amateur and its much easier to find used gear for these two brands

If you just want to keep it as a casual past time then I suggest going m4/3, the image quality might not compare to full sized DSLR's but the small form factor more than makes up for it. The best camera is the camera that you currently have on you and with a m4/3 you can pretty much carry it with you all the time

[boblobob]

The best camera is the camera that you currently have on you and with a m4/3 you can pretty much carry it with you all the time

This. You could spend $45000 on a hasselblad, but if you never have it with you to take pictures, its worthless.

[boblobob]

No, 8 Elm is not in business anymore - I think they closed last year. Which sucks for me because I finally bought a couple of Leica Ms and their store was a 5 minute walk from my office. Wait, maybe it's a good thing that they're not there.

I wouldn't shop at Aden if I was a newbie. They have good prices but they're tough on returns and they really want to push the sales on the accessories. Plus they're pretty rude. If I were buying an entry level SLR and was dead set on ignoring my own earlier advice to buy used, i'd buy it at Best Buy or Future Shop. They sell the same entry level cameras and have lenient return policies in case the OP decides he hates it in the first two weeks.


That sucks about 8 Elm. The owners were really nice people. True, you can't beat Best Buy and Future Shop for returns.

[vero95]

re nikon/canon, you can't go wrong with any of them. nikon has a better feel for lower end cameras imo. canon looks and feels plasticy
many people buy DSLR and use AUTO mode. my neighbour has a nikon D90 and only uses AUTO mode
in other words, even if you find you do not like and do not want to invest your time in photograpy, you always have an option to switch to auto mode
aden camera usually has the best prices. any other store, example: blacks, should match those prices
try a used nikon D40 though. that's the best entry level DSLR imo that will last you for many years before (if ever) you wanted to upgrade

[retteas]

also considering m43 cams now

1> what is the best m43 camera in terms of image quality?
2> what is the best m43 camera in terms of looks? (so far the panasonic gf1 is the best i have seen, but i havent seen too many yet since i havent taken the time to do the research, but like most people i prefer a good looking camera over image quality)

[retteas]

re nikon/canon, you can't go wrong with any of them. nikon has a better feel for lower end cameras imo. canon looks and feels plasticy
many people buy DSLR and use AUTO mode. my neighbour has a nikon D90 and only uses AUTO mode
in other words, even if you find you do not like and do not want to invest your time in photograpy, you always have an option to switch to auto mode
aden camera usually has the best prices. any other store, example: blacks, should match those prices
try a used nikon D40 though. that's the best entry level DSLR imo that will last you for many years before (if ever) you wanted to upgrade


do they (aden) have used lenses for sale? and if so do they have the best prices on those too?

[rf134a]

also considering m43 cams now

1> what is the best m43 camera in terms of image quality?
2> what is the best m43 camera in terms of looks? (so far the panasonic gf1 is the best i have seen, but i havent seen too many yet since i havent taken the time to do the research, but like most people i prefer a good looking camera over image quality)

1. Olympus OMD-EM5
2. Olympus OMD-EM5
http://www.vistek.ca/store/DigitalSLRs/261582/olympus-omd-em5-black-micro-43-kit-w-black-1250mm-lens.aspx

Available for $1299 with a 12-50mm F3.5-6.3 lens and free flash or 4/3 to micro 4/3 adapter. 5-axis stabilization + weatherproof means you can use it anywhere. Of course, your budget is $500, so you'll need to come up with an extra $800 somewhere.

OP, you seriously need to look at your PRICE RANGE. You've asked about everything under the sun but haven't changed the $500 budget you've posted. You either need to buy the cheapest, lowest end DSLR or up your budget significantly. DSLR is not cheap and the accessories are not cheap.

My purchases: Canon XS ($499), EF 50 1.4 ($120 - price error), EF 28-135 IS ($300-used), 430EX flash ($300 on special), Tamron 18-200 (US$220 AR). That's $1200 over 4 years.

With your $500 budget, you get the basics with the basic kit lens, nothing more. You're either serious about learning to use a DSLR or you're not, in which case a $500 Canon S100 or Sony RX100 will be far more flexible than a budget DSLR with kit lens.

[retteas]

in the future is it realistic to expect a fullframe sensor in a small body of a point and shoot camera?

[X820]

in the future is it realistic to expect a fullframe sensor in a small body of a point and shoot camera?

No, now go out there and try it for yourself.

[jayt90]

in the future is it realistic to expect a fullframe sensor in a small body of a point and shoot camera?
This concept never succeeded with film, but you can find very small Leica, Minox, Rollei and Minolta on the used market. All shirt pocket 35mm full frame, but limited optics and usefulness, plus high prices.

Current digital rangefinder full-frame cameras from Leica, are state of the art and small for full-frame.

[retteas]

is it worth it to buy a micro 4/3 camera second hand? i see they havent been really out for too long, did the early cameras have any issues i have to be aware of?

[rcxAsh]

is it worth it to buy a micro 4/3 camera second hand? i see they havent been really out for too long, did the early cameras have any issues i have to be aware of?
Micro Four-Thirds is the oldest mirrorless system on the market (if you don't count Leica range finders); Olympus and Panasonic first announced it in 2008. So the system is around 4 years old now and has the largest system of native lenses when compared to competing formats.

I use m4/3 myself and bought into it early in 2009 and haven't regret my decision yet.

There were no major issues to be aware of from the first generation bodies that would affect you if you bought one of the current bodies. The typical caveats of using a full-time live-view system apply though such as no accurate continuous auto focus tracking when using burst mode or difficulty in seeing the LCD screen in bright sunlight (though a viewfinder helps with this).

In terms of some specific things to consider if buying an older body:
- The first-generation Olympus camera (E-P1) had terribly slow auto focus apparently. Panasonic's auto focus was much, much better.
- The Panasonic GH1 had some issues with sensor banding

The only thing I would say about m4/3 is that if money is a deciding factor for you, you should know that some of their lenses can be pricey.

Best Buy and Futureshop are probably the worst places to look at m4/3 cameras though, because they don't show case how broad the system actually is.

A good thing about m4/3 is that you can buy lenses from either Panasonic or Olympus, and they are fully compatible.

[retteas]

not much chance of finding one in stock, no budget was mentioned, and its not technically an SLR, but the Olympus OM-D is simply an awesome camera and I would think an ideal starter camera. Compact , takes great pictures and the IBIS is awesome and makes even the slow kit lens so forgiving, I have a D800 as well but frequently find myself bringing the OMD instead. before I got the D800, seriously considered selling my d700 and my collecting of big Nikon glass.

what does ibis mean? google is not helping


also, there was a previous post about lens being slower and faster, what does it mean when a lens is slower or faster and why does it matter?

[jayt90]

what does ibis mean? google is not helping


also, there was a previous post about lens being slower and faster, what does it mean when a lens is slower or faster and why does it matter?

IBIS is a type of image stabilization; try searching Olympus IBIS.

A fast lens has a large maximum aperture, at any focal length setting. Usually f/2.8 for big costly zooms, and f/2.8, or f/2 or f/1.4 for many prime lenses. These lenses are better corrected than kit lenses against distortion, aberrations, and sharpness. They should give you easier access to bokeh, and they allow 1 to 3 extra f/stops of light gathering ability, for difficult situations.

Only a very few fast primes fit your budget, and virtually no zooms.

[retteas]

where is the best place to buy a digital camera used? ebay seems like a rediculus place to buy given the outragous prices people are iwlling to pay for old cameras

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230816979610?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[X820]

RFD.....and kijiji.

[MomentForeverImage]

canon 650D^^

[nosnoop]

Do you need the camera for the summer or right away?

If not, it is worth waiting 2 more months.

Photokina, one of the largest show for cameras, is on Sep 18. You can expect a tsunami of new cameras announcement from all the major camera manufacturers in the few weeks leading to the show; plus the anticipated Canon mirrorless announcement possibly later this month. Even if the upcoming cameras may not suit you, you can expect a price drop of the outgoing models and used cameras.

[retteas]

what is the point of using a viewfinder when there is an 100% coverage LCD. I always use the LCD, but i notice some older dslrs dont have a viewfinder lcd.

[NuggyBuggy]

For one thing, using a viewfinder tends to put one in a more stable shooting position.

[NuggyBuggy]

Do you need the camera for the summer or right away?

If not, it is worth waiting 2 more months.

Photokina, one of the largest show for cameras, is on Sep 18. You can expect a tsunami of new cameras announcement from all the major camera manufacturers in the few weeks leading to the show; plus the anticipated Canon mirrorless announcement possibly later this month. Even if the upcoming cameras may not suit you, you can expect a price drop of the outgoing models and used cameras.
If you follow this advice, no-one will ever buy a camera, because there are always new cameras coming out and you can always expect a price drop of current models.

[retteas]

For one thing, using a viewfinder tends to put one in a more stable shooting position.

?? do you mean the camera resting against your face will increase stability? or somehting else?

[NuggyBuggy]

?? do you mean the camera resting against your face will increase stability? or somehting else?
Exactly. Your arms are in a better position to hold something and your face offers another point at which the camera is secured, so all things being equal your camera will be more stable.

Try holding a small weight pressed against your face, then try holding that small weight with your arms extended in front of your face, and see which position you can hold longer.

[nosnoop]

If you follow this advice, no-one will ever buy a camera, because there are always new cameras coming out and you can always expect a price drop of current models.

To each his own.
I simply can't see how "waiting for two months" would translate to "no-one will ever buy a camera".... :facepalm:

True, there are always new cameras coming out; but normally it is hard to predict when they would come out... EXCEPT for this occasion, which comes once every two years.
All the camera manufacturers are holding up their best cameras releases in order to make a splash at Photokina in 2 months' time, I personally think that's worth waiting for.

If one does not need a camera in a hurry, what's there to lose?

[salabanzi]

Sorry to hijack OP's thread but I'm curious to know when buying used, how much actuations would be considered acceptable?

[X820]

So OP, have you decided on which one to get?