Kia '12 sportarge - need help for new comer!

[Teslaboy]

Hello!

My family immigrated to Canada not long ago. My father, he's been living in Canada before us, has an 09' Hyundai elantra touring.

So, we went to kia dealershop yesterday to purchase 2012 sportarge with trade-in.

Some of the things we got on our mind today.. we should have asked yesterday but we couldn't think of..

1. They got my father's ownership and just gave us the copy of it after we signed all papers. Is this a normal procedure?

2. The monthly payment they offered is $380 (after $10170 trade-in value and remaining financing loan of $4500). However, we were trying to figure out if we got any discount (at that time, the manager said she gave us $2000 off) and did the math, we got around $366 monthly (60 month @ 0%). Did we get overpriced and deceived us since our spoken english isn't good?

3. We didn't get any papers/receipts/bill of sales, just the receipt of the deposit we made $350. Is this normal? We get all papers when we pick up our car?

4. Can we cancel it if we want to? receive back our deposit and ownership? without penalty or something?

5. When we pick up the car, what would be the expected normal usage on the car already? say, 100km on the new car? if it's over, did we get something like displayed car?

Sorry for my grammar and awkward english, but please help us.. We are having headache and we tried to call them but they said they are off today.

Could you please advice us? Thank you very much and god bless you.

[Xiaohaibao]

I think if you already gave a deposit you cannot get it back. If you back out now you will lose the deposit.

Normal kms on a new car in Canada is under 100 kms. If it has more, you should have asked for a different car, or a discount. But if you already signed the papers then it is too late. I will let someone else answer your other questions as I am not 100% sure.

[Pete_Coach]

Hello!

My family immigrated to Canada not long ago. My father, he's been living in Canada before us, has an 09' Hyundai elantra touring.
Welcome and happy canada Day

So, we went to kia dealershop yesterday to purchase 2012 sportarge with trade-in.

Some of the things we got on our mind today.. we should have asked yesterday but we couldn't think of..
You can still ask the dealer these questions

1. They got my father's ownership and just gave us the copy of it after we signed all papers. Is this a normal procedure?
The ownership to your trade in I suspect? Yes, this can happen.

2. The monthly payment they offered is $380 (after $10170 trade-in value and remaining financing loan of $4500). However, we were trying to figure out if we got any discount (at that time, the manager said she gave us $2000 off) and did the math, we got around $366 monthly (60 month @ 0%). Did we get overpriced and deceived us since our spoken english isn't good?
The math does not add up. $10170 plus a loan loan of $4500 is way less than the price of a 2012 Sportage. Your down payment plus your 60 months of 380 per month comes out to close to $32,000

3. We didn't get any papers/receipts/bill of sales, just the receipt of the deposit we made $350. Is this normal? We get all papers when we pick up our car?
You will get all the papers when you pick up the vehicle

4. Can we cancel it if we want to? receive back our deposit and ownership? without penalty or something?
The short of it is no. You can ask and they may but don't count on it. I think you have what is called "buyers remorse".

5. When we pick up the car, what would be the expected normal usage on the car already? say, 100km on the new car? if it's over, did we get something like displayed car?
I would seriously question any mileage over 100 unless you agreed to buying a demonstrator vehicle. Even 100 kms would be high for a brand new car. My latest new car only had 21 kms on it.

Sorry for my grammar and awkward english, but please help us.. We are having headache and we tried to call them but they said they are off today.
Don't worry abut your grammar, you are concerned but, there was much opportunity to think this through before you singed agreements. In canada, when you sign, you are committed. rarely will you be let out of the deal.

Could you please advice us? Thank you very much and god bless you.
Not sure what advice you are seeking but, like I said, you are committed. I don't think you have been ripped off, I do think you could have gotten a bit better deal but, in the end, you have a vehicle that you need. I suggest that you carry on and next time, take a bit longer to decide, research a bit more and, be a bit wiser.
Answers in red

[Teslaboy]

Thank you very much for all your opinions. Helps me alot. The reason I asked was because my father and mother are very sensitive(pricing and minor things) especially since their english isn't that good so we got ripped off or something. I searched what ''buyers remoarse'' I think it may is what my parents feeling.

I called today for asking a copy of bill of sales so we can see the breakdown of pricing but the manager said we will see/receive it when we pick it up. Although she said she will make her employee to send me e-mail a copy of it, but I'm still waiting for it. I doubt if it'd be sent...

As well, the manager mentioned that the car will have around 40~70km on it. Is this acceptable on new car? or should I demand a new one and wait for it?

I love Canada and hope my family go through transition well. Happy Canada day!

ps. any other advice still will be thanksful!

[Pete_Coach]

Thank you very much for all your opinions. Helps me alot. The reason I asked was because my father and mother are very sensitive(pricing and minor things) especially since their english isn't that good so we got ripped off or something. I searched what ''buyers remoarse'' I think it may is what my parents feeling.

I called today for asking a copy of bill of sales so we can see the breakdown of pricing but the manager said we will see/receive it when we pick it up. Although she said she will make her employee to send me e-mail a copy of it, but I'm still waiting for it. I doubt if it'd be sent...

As well, the manager mentioned that the car will have around 40~70km on it. Is this acceptable on new car? or should I demand a new one and wait for it?

I love Canada and hope my family go through transition well. Happy Canada day!

ps. any other advice still will be thanksful!
40 to 70kms is OK. It has been driven but it may have come from another dealer (because the dealer you bought it from did not have the exact model).
In my opinion, you should not go looking to dissect your purchase. You will only become disappointed. The fact is, there will always be a better deal. There will always be someone telling you that yours was a bad deal. There will always be something that makes you regret what you did. All of this is "buyers remorse" (which I think you are having too, not just your parents).
Pick up the car, drive it, take care of it, shine it, enjoy it. Forget the business of buying it. You already own it. Reassure your parent they got a nice new vehicle, they got what they want and, what they could afford. Do not think about the purchase anymore.

All is well in Canada and your family will transition perfectly. I am Canadian from Canada and love it. You had a choice to go anywhere in the world and you chose Canada. Must have been a tough decision but, I think you chose very well. Too bad you are not in Ottawa tomorrow because the party and events at Parliament Hill are especially pertinent and meaningful for folks like you (and me too). Watch it on TV.

[Voltex]

40 to 70kms is OK. It has been driven but it may have come from another dealer (because the dealer you bought it from did not have the exact model).
In my opinion, you should not go looking to dissect your purchase. You will only become disappointed. The fact is, there will always be a better deal. There will always be someone telling you that yours was a bad deal. There will always be something that makes you regret what you did. All of this is "buyers remorse" (which I think you are having too, not just your parents).
Pick up the car, drive it, take care of it, shine it, enjoy it. Forget the business of buying it. You already own it. Reassure your parent they got a nice new vehicle, they got what they want and, what they could afford. Do not think about the purchase anymore.

All is well in Canada and your family will transition perfectly. I am Canadian from Canada and love it. You had a choice to go anywhere in the world and you chose Canada. Must have been a tough decision but, I think you chose very well. Too bad you are not in Ottawa tomorrow because the party and events at Parliament Hill are especially pertinent and meaningful for folks like you (and me too). Watch it on TV.

Really? I guess you're someone that doesn't care how the car's been treated.

[anhtuan]

Hi OP, it sounds to me like you've been taken advantage of, but not much you can do really, when you have a trade in dealerships either give you a good price on the trade in or good price on the vehicle, never both, its always good to take a look at the break down of all the costs before you put down any deposit or anything. I find that most car salesman are scum, if possible deal with the Manager directly, its best if you know ahead of time the costs of the car after taxes and what not, and just make an offer with the manager directly. From my past experiences, I've bough 5 vehicles and the milage I've gotten when I received the cars are 6km, 8km, 14km, 51km, and my newest vehicle had 62km on it. Like the previous poster said it depends on the car, if the dealer got the car directly from the factory, it usually has low KMs, if they took it from another dealership they usually send someone there to drive the car back and that varies based on how far the dealer is from the pickup location. But usually cars come out of the factory with 5KM on them, so if it has a few hundred KMs than you definitely don't want the car. You can still refuse the vehicle at pickup if there is something wrong with it and the dealership has to get you one that matches the contract (I think i read that somewhere, but you can't be too unreasonable).

To be honest I think you guys are getting a bad price, I'm not sure what the finance term is, but if you did the calculations yourself and it should be $20 lower than you are definitely over paying, but than you have to factor in the fact that you've got a trade-in and like I said, they need to make money on it so you won't get a good price on the trade in. Did you sign any papers at all? If you didn't than you can still get your deposit back, but if you did, than you'll have a hard time, they should give you a yellow copy of the contract if you signed it and on the back it tells you how to get out of the contract.

[Pete_Coach]

Really? I guess you're someone that doesn't care how the car's been treated.

Like I said, the car may have been driven from another dealer. That does add some miles to the vehicle.
As for how it was treated, there is a salesperson in the vehicle on test drives nowadays so, you can be pretty sure that it was treated normally. Stop being so paranoid.

[Pete_Coach]

Hi OP, it sounds to me like you've been taken advantage of, but not much you can do really, when you have a trade in dealerships either give you a good price on the trade in or good price on the vehicle, never both, its always good to take a look at the break down of all the costs before you put down any deposit or anything. I find that most car salesman are scum, if possible deal with the Manager directly, its best if you know ahead of time the costs of the car after taxes and what not, and just make an offer with the manager directly. From my past experiences, I've bough 5 vehicles and the milage I've gotten when I received the cars are 6km, 8km, 14km, 51km, and my newest vehicle had 62km on it. Like the previous poster said it depends on the car, if the dealer got the car directly from the factory, it usually has low KMs, if they took it from another dealership they usually send someone there to drive the car back and that varies based on how far the dealer is from the pickup location. But usually cars come out of the factory with 5KM on them, so if it has a few hundred KMs than you definitely don't want the car. You can still refuse the vehicle at pickup if there is something wrong with it and the dealership has to get you one that matches the contract (I think i read that somewhere, but you can't be too unreasonable).

To be honest I think you guys are getting a bad price, I'm not sure what the finance term is, but if you did the calculations yourself and it should be $20 lower than you are definitely over paying, but than you have to factor in the fact that you've got a trade-in and like I said, they need to make money on it so you won't get a good price on the trade in. Did you sign any papers at all? If you didn't than you can still get your deposit back, but if you did, than you'll have a hard time, they should give you a yellow copy of the contract if you signed it and on the back it tells you how to get out of the contract.
Geez, I want to cry. You are really a glass is half empty kind of person eh?
Bottom line here is they will be paying about $32k for a Sportage (principal, taxes, interest, admin and whatever extras they bought) after 60 months of payment. That is about right for a financed vehicle.

[Voltex]

Like I said, the car may have been driven from another dealer. That does add some miles to the vehicle.
As for how it was treated, there is a salesperson in the vehicle on test drives nowadays so, you can be pretty sure that it was treated normally. Stop being so paranoid.

And it may also have been test driven by a maniac.A salesperson in the car means absolutely nothing. When I went to test drive a Corolla I was surprised that the dealership I went to didn't have adesignated test drive car. The salesperson grabved one from the inventory and let us test drive it. It had 17kms on it when I got into the driver's seat.

[Teslaboy]

Hi, all. Thanks very much!

I have another thing to share for your insight. I just received an e-mail, because I called them constantly and demanded a copy of bill of sale (by the way, we did not get any any sort of papers/receipts at that time and only the receipt of $350 deposits (they said also this deposit needs to access to the bank and will be refund to me when i pick up car) ) to see the breakdown the price.

At that time when we were making deal, the dealer agreed to give us $9000+tax for trade-in value for our car. However, on the bill of sale, it says just $9000, so the price is $380... It should have been around $360 or so..

She said on the phone I will get my final bill of sale the day I pick up the car.
Also, she said the car is coming from scarborough and will be around 50~70 km.

Any advice please? I could just convince my parents everything is fine.. but time is tough for us. We want to save as much as possible. Thanks you for your time!

[Busybuyer888]

Tell them everything is fine. If Pete_Coach say okay ... you are okay.

The $9,000 trade in is deducted from the price of the car ... before they calculate the tax. So your parents are saving the 13% HST (on the trade-in) on the final tax-in price.

I would have no issues with getting a new car with 100km on it.

[Teslaboy]

Tell them everything is fine. If Pete_Coach say okay ... you are okay.

The $9,000 trade in is deducted from the price of the car ... before they calculate the tax. So your parents are saving the 13% HST (on the trade-in) on the final tax-in price.

I would have no issues with getting a new car with 100km on it.

Hello, I just wanted to thank you and also some thought of trade in value of our car. So, they were supposed to deduct $9000+tax which is $10170 from sales price and then add up the remaining loan, from current car, $4500. If they just deducted $9000, we are paying more... And if that was the deal, we wouldn't have purchased the car...

Can we change the price, if manager agrees that she agreed to give us $9000+tax, when we pick up the final bill of sale? Or we can't change and that price is final?

Any comment will be very thanksful. Thanks!

[night blade]

Some people need to relax on the k with a new car, more than likely if it's around 100k its been driven from another dealership like others have said, heck mine was at 161k when I got it 8 months ago, no complaints here since I did a thorough inspection and the wrapper was still on it ;), and yeah they did drive it from afar to get it for me.

Back on subject, 32k for the Sportage, what trim? must be the EX or the LX AWD correct?

[ottofly]

Some people need to relax on the k with a new car, more than likely if it's around 100k its been driven from another dealership like others have said, heck mine was at 161k when I got it 8 months ago, no complaints here since I did a thorough inspection and the wrapper was still on it ;), and yeah they did drive it from afar to get it for me.

Back on subject, 32k for the Sportage, what trim? must be the EX or the LX AWD correct?

Yup. Mine had 180KM on it, came from an out of town dealer. Low and behold after 3 years it hasn't fallen apart yet. :|

As for the OP looks like the dealer has left him in the dark. I'm not sure he even knows what trim and what options they signed for. Sad that some dealers take advantage of a customer's language skills. OP should go in first thing Monday morning, preferably someone with good command of English for a full and complete breakdown of what they're trading, what they're buying and how much they're paying for it.

************************************

[anhtuan]

When you do the trade in, they subtract the $9000 before they add the tax, so yes, you do get the taxes off.

Hi, all. Thanks very much!

I have another thing to share for your insight. I just received an e-mail, because I called them constantly and demanded a copy of bill of sale (by the way, we did not get any any sort of papers/receipts at that time and only the receipt of $350 deposits (they said also this deposit needs to access to the bank and will be refund to me when i pick up car) ) to see the breakdown the price.

At that time when we were making deal, the dealer agreed to give us $9000+tax for trade-in value for our car. However, on the bill of sale, it says just $9000, so the price is $380... It should have been around $360 or so..

She said on the phone I will get my final bill of sale the day I pick up the car.
Also, she said the car is coming from scarborough and will be around 50~70 km.

Any advice please? I could just convince my parents everything is fine.. but time is tough for us. We want to save as much as possible. Thanks you for your time!

[Teslaboy]

Hello,

The sportarge is 2012 new LX FWD... The problem we found is the dealer should give us $9000 + hst ( $10170) as deduction of trade in to sales price.

However, on bill of sale, it's just $9000, so the monthly payment (60 month @ 0%) is #380... It should have to $369...

We are worry to if the dealer say she didn't mention the truth that she will give us that $9000+hst as trade in... Also, what if she say since we signed the paper, and say why we didn't check...

Please share your insight. I really thankful to you.

[Xiaohaibao]

New immigrants shouldn't be buying a new car for 32k they should buy something used for 10k max.

[ottofly]

Hello,

The sportarge is 2012 new LX FWD... The problem we found is the dealer should give us $9000 + hst ( $10170) as deduction of trade in to sales price.

However, on bill of sale, it's just $9000, so the monthly payment (60 month @ 0%) is #380... It should have to $369...

We are worry to if the dealer say she didn't mention the truth that she will give us that $9000+hst as trade in... Also, what if she say since we signed the paper, and say why we didn't check...

Please share your insight. I really thankful to you.

Something not right here. I'll assume you're getting the automatic LX FWD. With freight and HST total comes to $28,960 at KIA.ca. Your $9000 trade + your $350 deposit brings the amount to be financed down to $18,440.77 which should bring the payments down to $307.35 for 60 months @ 0%? How does the dealer come to $380 and how do you come to $369? Are you sure it is an LX, are there any special accessories like larger wheels?

[Teslaboy]

Hi, I can write from copy of bill of sale.
2012 sportarge LX fwd new

basic vehicle price MSRP 24595 ($)
pre-delivery expense 359
Discount - 2476.42

freight 1650
federal ac levy 100
admin fee 399
wheel locks (i dont know what this is) 70
pro-tech secure ride (this too) 397.53
omvic tiretax 34.20

sub total 25128.31

now the problem i'm having start from here:

subtotal 25128.31
deduct vehicle trade allowance -9000 (supposed to be 9000+hst = 10170)
Net difference 16128.31
HST 2096.68

payout lien (remaining financing for our current car) 4500

balance due 22724.99
plus contract registration fee 75

grand total is 22799.99

so, if i divide it by 60 month , it is $379.99

However, if I calculate the $10170, instead of 9000, I get much lower..

This is what I request your insight.. Thank you.

[ottofly]

Hi, I can write from copy of bill of sale.
2012 sportarge LX fwd new

basic vehicle price MSRP 24595 ($)
pre-delivery expense 359
Discount - 2476.42

freight 1650
federal ac levy 100
admin fee 399
wheel locks (i dont know what this is) 70
pro-tech secure ride (this too) 397.53
omvic tiretax 34.20

sub total 25128.31

now the problem i'm having start from here:

subtotal 25128.31
deduct vehicle trade allowance -9000 (supposed to be 9000+hst = 10170)
Net difference 16128.31
HST 2096.68

payout lien (remaining financing for our current car) 4500

balance due 22724.99
plus contract registration fee 75

grand total is 22799.99

so, if i divide it by 60 month , it is $379.99

However, if I calculate the $10170, instead of 9000, I get much lower..

This is what I request your insight.. Thank you.

Ahh...you did not mention the $4500 lien on previous car. :|

The dealer calculations are correct then. Since the $9000 comes off the top you are paying HST on the price after the $9000 is deducted, in other words instead of paying HST of $3266.68 you are paying $2096.67 which = $1170.

[anhtuan]

Hi, I can write from copy of bill of sale.
2012 sportarge LX fwd new

basic vehicle price MSRP 24595 ($)
pre-delivery expense 359
Discount - 2476.42

freight 1650
federal ac levy 100
admin fee 399
wheel locks (i dont know what this is) 70
pro-tech secure ride (this too) 397.53
omvic tiretax 34.20

sub total 25128.31

now the problem i'm having start from here:

subtotal 25128.31
deduct vehicle trade allowance -9000 (supposed to be 9000+hst = 10170)
Net difference 16128.31
HST 2096.68

payout lien (remaining financing for our current car) 4500

balance due 22724.99
plus contract registration fee 75

grand total is 22799.99

so, if i divide it by 60 month , it is $379.99

However, if I calculate the $10170, instead of 9000, I get much lower..

This is what I request your insight.. Thank you.

The Admin fees, pro-tech secure ride are pure profits for the dealership, don't believe them if they tell you otherwise, when I was out shopping for cars at the Kia dealership, i told the manager straight up its a bs fee and he agreed as well, but what they do is subtract that price from the price of the car so you can essentially get another $800 off or wutever the cost of those two fees are.

[proteinJunkie]

Tell them you don't need the pro-tech , that your insurance company gives you this .

what a rip off that is and pure profit.

In london we have the 399 registration which includes the globali crap which is the same pro-tech bs but it's admin + globali = 399

you guys up there are paying 399 admin and separate for pro-tech wow.

tell them you don't need it and to remove it. even though you put a deposit you can still remove this. I did before i left the dealership


Wheel locks are like bolts with a locking mechanism so it makes it harder for someone to steal your rim and tire..that is up to you if you want them..

[Teslaboy]

Hello,

Thank you very much for all your thoughts. I have a question because I'm not certain of it..

So, when they calculate deduction of my trade in value allowance, originally they don't apply tax on it?
So, in my case, they did favor and applied tax on it so I saved $1170?

Is that the way car dealership do calculate?

I'm very sorry to question vastly.. It's very thanksfully if you can detail on it.

Thanks and happy canada day!

[ottofly]

Hello,

Thank you very much for all your thoughts. I have a question because I'm not certain of it..

So, when they calculate deduction of my trade in value allowance, originally they don't apply tax on it?
So, in my case, they did favor and applied tax on it so I saved $1170?

Is that the way car dealership do calculate?

I'm very sorry to question vastly.. It's very thanksfully if you can detail on it.

Thanks and happy canada day!

They didn't do you any favors. This is the way trades are calculated. They don't apply the tax on your trade in. The $1170 tax savings is realized when they calculate the total price minus your trade in. You are simply paying tax on the lowered net-difference amount hence the $1170 savings. In fact, as others have suggested there are many bogus fees you should have objected to. The deal would have probably gone through just the same. I would go in Monday morning and try and knock some of those fees off.
Happy Canada Day.

[night blade]

Hi, I can write from copy of bill of sale.
2012 sportarge LX fwd new

basic vehicle price MSRP 24595 ($)
pre-delivery expense 359
Discount - 2476.42

freight 1650
federal ac levy 100
admin fee 399
wheel locks (i dont know what this is) 70
pro-tech secure ride (this too) 397.53
omvic tiretax 34.20

sub total 25128.31

now the problem i'm having start from here:

subtotal 25128.31
deduct vehicle trade allowance -9000 (supposed to be 9000+hst = 10170)
Net difference 16128.31
HST 2096.68

payout lien (remaining financing for our current car) 4500

balance due 22724.99
plus contract registration fee 75

grand total is 22799.99

so, if i divide it by 60 month , it is $379.99

However, if I calculate the $10170, instead of 9000, I get much lower..

This is what I request your insight.. Thank you.

I count $1384.85 in fees you are going to pay, and I didn't on my 2012 Sportage,

pre-delivery expense 359 (should be apart of the freight)
admin fee 399 (bs)
wheel locks (i dont know what this is) 70 (was inc. for free on mine)
pro-tech secure ride (this too) 397.53 (huh?)

Give them a visit and kindly ask them to remove these fees before signing anything ;).

[Teslaboy]

Hello,

Thank you very much for your important message.

By the way, what happens if we ask to change the car model, say sportarge to rondo at same dealershop when we go for pick up car and all paper works..

Just wondering and any advice given thanksful.

p.s. I will really ask for those fees on my mind to dealership when we go for pick up our car, probably next tueseday since monday is holiday.

[starboy869]

That would be one huge headache with the dealership. When you go get the keys you want to tell them to switch cars?

Question? Are you able to speak up when you don't understand something or you just say yes when you don't understand and don't want trouble?

Sounds like your buying something you can't afford.

[spike1128]

I would say forget about this heartache of trying to get a lower payment and seeing if you been riped off or not.

If you can afford it, enjoy it. If you can't, then prepare to lose some money by selling it after. Not point of this thread for the OP.

[Pete_Coach]

I would say forget about this heartache of trying to get a lower payment and seeing if you been riped off or not.

If you can afford it, enjoy it. If you can't, then prepare to lose some money by selling it after. Not point of this thread for the OP.
^^ +1
I think I said basically the same thing some time ago. Thing is, the longer the OP posts, the more negative the responses get. This guys buyers remorse is getting worse by every post and he is being fed by naysayers.
OP, I agree with Spike, go get your vehicle and enjoy it.