Used hatchback dilemma -- advice needed. [UPDATE]

[Cerebro]

Hey all, I've got a couple of questions re: a used hatchback I'm thinking about getting.

So my sister and I have pooled our money ($9000 is the top end of our budget) and are going to share a car. I'll be driving it 70% of the time, as my sister will just be hitching a ride with me to work and borrowing it on weekends. We were looking at hatchbacks as we tend to haul a lot of stuff around for our parents and grandparents, plus bring our nephew to daycare (he's 4 and currently in a booster seat). The car'll get at least 35,000 kms put on it per year.

I'm pretty practical, so as long as the car has comfy seats for my 50km commute I don't care, but my sister's pretty picky regarding a sunroof and prefers leather seats, or at the very least an interior that doesn't look super cheap. She can drive manual, I'd have to learn.

We were looking at a 2007 Nissan Versa SL with 110,000 kms and a sunroof, bluetooth, alloys, etc. that was going for around $8700. I also checked out some 07 and 08 Mazda 3s because, well, neither of us is wild about being in the semi-ugly Versa and I feel like there are better hatchbacks out there in the ~$8000 range. I found an 08 Mazda 3 GT for the same price with better features and leather interior, but it's got 175,000 kms.

Now we're both kind of torn between the semi-ugly Versas with lower kms and less features, or sexy Mazda 3s with potential rust issues and higher mileage. Any Versa or Mazda 3 owners out there who can provide some insight? Any other hatchbacks we should be looking at?

[coriolis]

Look for Mazda3's made after 2007, preferably 2009 or newer, but it'll be harder budget-wise. The 04' to 06' models had a very high chance of rusting arches, while the 2007 and up models improved significantly. Still doesn't mean that theres a chance.


Another interesting option is the Suzuki SX4. The Matrix/Vibe are options as well.

[poedua]

We were looking at a 2007 Nissan Versa SL with 110,000 kms and a sunroof, bluetooth, alloys, etc. that was going for around $8700. I also checked out some 07 and 08 Mazda 3s because, well, neither of us is wild about being in the semi-ugly Versa and I feel like there are better hatchbacks out there in the ~$8000 range. I found an 08 Mazda 3 GT for the same price with better features and leather interior, but it's got 175,000 kms.

If fuel economy is an issue the Versa has a more miserly 1.8L engine whereas the Mazda 3 hatch has a ( relatively ) more thirsty 2.3L engine.

[Bomberman07]

Look for Mazda3's made after 2007, preferably 2009 or newer, but it'll be harder budget-wise. The 04' to 06' models had a very high chance of rusting arches, while the 2007 and up models improved significantly. Still doesn't mean that theres a chance.


Another interesting option is the Suzuki SX4. The Matrix/Vibe are options as well.

My bro have a 09 Vibe and he's very happy with it. He has two kid so he need the room, just like OP. For my part I've got the mazda 3 hatchback but I will receive it next week so can't really comment :P

[ottofly]

My bro have a 09 Vibe and he's very happy with it. He has two kid so he need the room, just like OP. For my part I've got the mazda 3 hatchback but I will receive it next week so can't really comment :P

+1 for the Vibe. But the interior is lots of hard plastic. The seats and the car overall is very roomy and comfortable. This will swallow almost any cargo including a medium sized fridge and lots 4 peoples worth of luggage. All seats fold down including the front passenger on 1SB/1SC/GT/AWD models. Forget leather, not sure it was ever available on the Vibe. Make sure you get the 1.8L engine. Very reliable and the car as a whole is ridiculously cheap to operate. The 2.4 is a bit more powerful, uses 20% more fuel and has some issues.

[poedua]

My bro have a 09 Vibe and he's very happy with it. He has two kid so he need the room, just like OP. For my part I've got the mazda 3 hatchback but I will receive it next week so can't really comment :P

+1 for the Vibe...pretty reliable, and great on gas with the 1.8L engine.

Also, I think the '09 came with electronic stability control as a standard feature. Personally, I'd put things like a sunroof, leather etc. etc. much lower in priority in favour of electronic stability control. Electronic stability control would be a ' must have ' IMO - it could save your life.;)

And on the topic if ESP, a ' dark horse ' option might be an ' orphaned ' 2008 Saturn Astra hatch ( below ...with 18" alloys ) which has a GM 1.8L Ecotec engine and is loaded with standard features ( in the coupe ) and pretty ' peppy ' / ' fun ' to drive with.......

- air
- cruise control
- steering-wheel-mounted audio controls
- rain-sensing wipers
- a trip computer
- tilt/telescoping steering
- fog lights
- ESP
- 4 wheel antilock disc brakes
- heated seats,
- front-seat side airbags, full-length side-curtain airbags
- a nice ' soft touch ' interior instead of cheap plastic

.... it was a direct import from Europe where 100's of thousands have been sold in the past few years....and still are.

You could probably pick a coupe up for about $9,000 with 50,000 - 75,000 km on it.

http://0.tqn.com/d/cars/1/0/h/f/gm_astra_xr_3dr_side1.jpg

[BluePhirePB]

+1 for a used first gen. Matrix/Vibe especially if all you're doing is going from point A to point B on a budget. Although the interiors are mostly plastic, it's not too shabby looking compared to the current gen. Matrix/Vibe. It'd probably be better to go for the Vibe as its price will probably be lower than a comparable Matrix since it's considered a domestic brand.

Good luck!

[sleepyguy]

Vibe or Mazda3 imho... you can get a very good deal on them, post 2006/07. Or if you really want to save cash... Protege5... I think you can get them for like $2500 with limited miles.

[darek_dade]

Seeing that you are looking for something cheap & loaded I also recommend the Saturn Astra but the 5-door version. I drive a 3-door and I wouldn't be able to put a booster seat in the back seat everyday without swearing.

[Cerebro]

Hmm, I like the looks of the Astra a lot, and it seems to be cheaper than a Vibe. I'll have to convince my sister to look at non-Japanese cars too.

For those of you who own/ are suggesting Pontiac Vibes and Saturn Astras, are concerns about the availability of parts overblown? I'd plan on having the car for the next 5 years, 4 of which I'd be the sole owner as my sister plans to leave the city for school.

[ottofly]

Hmm, I like the looks of the Astra a lot, and it seems to be cheaper than a Vibe. I'll have to convince my sister to look at non-Japanese cars too.

For those of you who own/ are suggesting Pontiac Vibes and Saturn Astras, are concerns about the availability of parts overblown? I'd plan on having the car for the next 5 years, 4 of which I'd be the sole owner as my sister plans to leave the city for school.

I would not go for an Astra. Although mechanical parts are easy to get body panels are different story if you crash it. The car was built in Antwerp and a simple fender and other body parts can take upwards of a month. The Vibe is Corolla based, parts are everywhere with multiple aftermarket suppliers of varying prices/quality and you have the choice of GM and Toyota's massive networks for OEM parts and service.

[darek_dade]

I would not go for an Astra. Although mechanical parts are easy to get body panels are different story if you crash it. The car was built in Antwerp and a simple fender and other body parts can take upwards of a month. The Vibe is Corolla based, parts are everywhere with multiple aftermarket suppliers of varying prices/quality and you have the choice of GM and Toyota's massive networks for OEM parts and service.

I agree with the above poster. Good thing about fender benders is that they're usually fixed through insurance so you shouldn't be too concerned about costs/time. So far the only out of ordinary thing that I had to purchase for my astra is a coolant sensor - they had it in stock in the etobicoke/queensway location. There is quite a lot of Astras zipping around Toronto and I'm planning to keep mine for at least another 5 years - it's been reliable so far.

[IMWHFMPC]

Mazda 3 uses quite a bit of gas and is not the most reliable in my opinion, always there are little things that go wrong. But it looks the best indeed.

[poedua]

Hmm, I like the looks of the Astra a lot, and it seems to be cheaper than a Vibe. I'll have to convince my sister to look at non-Japanese cars too.

For those of you who own/ are suggesting Pontiac Vibes and Saturn Astras, are concerns about the availability of parts overblown? I'd plan on having the car for the next 5 years, 4 of which I'd be the sole owner as my sister plans to leave the city for school.

The 3 door Astra coupe looks great IMO, styling reminds me a bit of a MB coupe ( below ).

The Astra was discontinued in 2009 when Saturn went under, but that works in your favour, and as a result, it'll still have a huge depreciation hit.

It's 1.8L Ecotec engine is virtually the same one they use in the Chevy Cruze. Parts availability usually lag model years by 3 or 4 years, so parts shouldn't be an issue for the next 5 - 10 years or so. Ditto for body panels .....in the unlikely event you get in a crash, even if a body part needs to come from overseas ( which I doubt ) your insurance will cover the cost / time lag via a rental...so, it's a non-issue IMO.....just a case of scare-mongering IMO..

Big knock on the Astra from the US press was primarily that is was a 5 speed manual instead of a 6 spd ( i.e it revs high at 100km/h...but has lots of tourque at those speeds ), the small engine isn't FAST...just peppy, the lack of cup-holders, no sun-roof, and lack of Bluetooth / USB connectivity.

The Astra isn't a speed demon, but it is a blast to drive in the 5 spd coupe...and it is a good value for the standard features get...and to confirm this, just compare it's standard features ( ESP, heated seats, trip computer, 4 wheel anti-lock discs, rain sensing wipers, cruise, steering-wheel-mounted controls, tilt AND telescoping steering, ' soft touch ' interior etc. etc. ) all other things being equal, to a Mazda 3 or a Vibe from 2008...and what they will cost you today for those same features by comparison.

http://www.pifauto.com/images/32517_17133zihTM2lzO0L.jpg

[Supercooled]

+1 for the Vibe...pretty reliable, and great on gas with the 1.8L engine.

Also, I think the '09 came with electronic stability control as a standard feature. Personally, I'd put things like a sunroof, leather etc. etc. much lower in priority in favour of electronic stability control. Electronic stability control would be a ' must have ' IMO - it could save your life.;)

And on the topic if ESP, a ' dark horse ' option might be an ' orphaned ' 2008 Saturn Astra hatch ( below ...with 18" alloys ) which has a GM 1.8L Ecotec engine and is loaded with standard features ( in the coupe ) and pretty ' peppy ' / ' fun ' to drive with.......

- air
- cruise control
- steering-wheel-mounted audio controls
- rain-sensing wipers
- a trip computer
- tilt/telescoping steering
- fog lights
- ESP
- 4 wheel antilock disc brakes
- heated seats,
- front-seat side airbags, full-length side-curtain airbags
- a nice ' soft touch ' interior instead of cheap plastic

.... it was a direct import from Europe where 100's of thousands have been sold in the past few years....and still are.

You could probably pick a coupe up for about $9,000 with 50,000 - 75,000 km on it.

http://0.tqn.com/d/cars/1/0/h/f/gm_astra_xr_3dr_side1.jpg

Do they all have the Ecotec engine? I know it's been used in Europe long before they brought it over here in NA so it's a proven tech.

This looks like a good deal but not sure:

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Saturn/Astra/WATERLOO/Ontario/5_13712145_ON20070802094616106/?ursrc=hl&showcpo=ShowCPO

[poedua]

Do they all have the Ecotec engine? I know it's been used in Europe long before they brought it over here in NA so it's a proven tech.



Yup...engine pic from a 2008 Astra coupe...

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/09q3/295532/2008-saturn-astra-xr-3-door-ecotec-18-liter-inline-4-engine-photo-295732-s-520x318.jpg

[darek_dade]

The 3 door Astra coupe looks great IMO, styling reminds me a bit of a MB coupe ( below ).

The Astra was discontinued in 2009 when Saturn went under, but that works in your favour, and as a result, it'll still have a huge depreciation hit.

It's 1.8L Ecotec engine is virtually the same one they use in the Chevy Cruze. Parts availability usually lag model years by 3 or 4 years, so parts shouldn't be an issue for the next 5 - 10 years or so. Ditto for body panels .....in the unlikely event you get in a crash, even if a body part needs to come from overseas ( which I doubt ) your insurance will cover the cost / time lag via a rental...so, it's a non-issue IMO.....just a case of scare-mongering IMO..

Big knock on the Astra from the US press was primarily that is was a 5 speed manual instead of a 6 spd ( i.e it revs high at 100km/h...but has lots of tourque at those speeds ), the small engine isn't FAST...just peppy, the lack of cup-holders, no sun-roof, and lack of Bluetooth / USB connectivity.

The Astra isn't a speed demon, but it is a blast to drive in the 5 spd coupe...and it is a good value for the standard features get...and to confirm this, just compare it's standard features ( ESP, heated seats, trip computer, 4 wheel anti-lock discs, rain sensing wipers, cruise, steering-wheel-mounted controls, tilt AND telescoping steering, ' soft touch ' interior etc. etc. ) all other things being equal, to a Mazda 3 or a Vibe from 2008...and what they will cost you today for those same features by comparison.



5-door version has a huge sunroof. I agree 5 speed manual revs high on autobahn speeds but you get used to it. OP, if you end up getting the Astra get the stick version, automatic on this car sucks.

[Supercooled]

Were these known to have been imported from post katrina or anything shady? The interior is reallt shoddy almost like a toy prop but im just looking for reliable transpo. For the short term and this seems to fit the bill.

What about rhe link i posted. Seems like a great deal for50k on the odo. And also the ebgine bay is pretty much immaculate. eithwr this or for another few tgousand to upgrade to an accent / rio5 migjt be a little more prudent.

[poedua]

5-door version has a huge sunroof.

Actually, you're right...I was thinking ' coupe '...which doesn't..

That said, the panoramic sunroof on the 5 door Astra IS HUGE....sunroof wise, I don't think anything from Mazda 3 or VW Golf or Nissan Versa or Vibe / Matrix comes close.

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo_StoryLevel/080305/080305-saturn-astra1-hmed-6a.grid-6x2.jpg


I agree 5 speed manual revs high on autobahn speeds but you get used to it.

Actually, i think the gearing was changed specifically for North America...it's not European gearing ratios.


OP, if you end up getting the Astra get the stick version, automatic on this car sucks.

+1

A LOT more fun to drive !

Even more so with the coupe...sport suspension, lowered height, 17" or 18" wheels.:)

[Supercooled]

Actually, you're right...I was thinking ' coupe '...which doesn't..

That said, the panoramic sunroof on the 5 door Astra IS HUGE....sunroof wise, I don't think anything from Mazda 3 or VW Golf or Nissan Versa or Vibe / Matrix comes close.

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo_StoryLevel/080305/080305-saturn-astra1-hmed-6a.grid-6x2.jpg



Actually, i think the gearing was changed specifically for North America...it's not European gearing ratios.



+1

A LOT more fun to drive !

Even more so with the coupe...sport suspension, lowered height, 17" or 18" wheels.:)

All coupes inherited the sports performance goodies or just certain trims? I see XR as one of the badging. Man, these look killer on the outside but once you open that door it leaves a lot to be desired.

[poedua]

All coupes inherited the sports performance goodies or just certain trims? I see XR as one of the badging.

FYI.....

" The Belgian-built three-door XR is set apart from its four-door counterpart by a full sporting makeover, with unique bodywork, a special interior with a sport steering wheel and high-bolstered sport seats, a firmer sport suspension, electrohydraulic steering with a quicker ratio, and standard stability control."


Man, these look killer on the outside but once you open that door it leaves a lot to be desired.

What's the issue exactly ?

[Supercooled]

FYI.....

" The Belgian-built three-door XR is set apart from its four-door counterpart by a full sporting makeover, with unique bodywork, a special interior with a sport steering wheel and high-bolstered sport seats, a firmer sport suspension, electrohydraulic steering with a quicker ratio, and standard stability control."



What's the issue exactly ?

Interior looks cheap and ugly. Makes me wanna poke my eyes out with rusty nails.

Apart from that, I'm actually considering picking one up. I was looking to buy one a few years ago when GM announced they were killing Saturn and dealerships were trying to get rid of them. For $10k and low mileage, it's a no brainer.

The hunt begins.

[poedua]

Interior looks cheap and ugly. Makes me wanna poke my eyes out with rusty nails.

Apart from that, I'm actually considering picking one up. I was looking to buy one a few years ago when GM announced they were killing Saturn and dealerships were trying to get rid of them. For $10k and low mileage, it's a no brainer.

The hunt begins.

Compared to what from 2008 ?

[mr_raider]

Do they all have the Ecotec engine? I know it's been used in Europe long before they brought it over here in NA so it's a proven tech.

This looks like a good deal but not sure:

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Saturn/Astra/WATERLOO/Ontario/5_13712145_ON20070802094616106/?ursrc=hl&showcpo=ShowCPO

All of GM's post 2000 4 cyl engines are called Ecotec. This particular revision is the GM family 1 1.8L ecotec. Note that it uses a timing belt.

[Matrixvibe]

+1 for a first gen (2003-2008) matrix/vibe (*glances at my username*). Mazda 3's are just rust buckets :( but my heart still has a place for any hatch.

The only big thing for first gen Matrix/vibe 1zz is their manual tranny, the C59 seems to give out. I've had no problems with my auto tranny tho.

[poedua]

Interior looks cheap and ugly. Makes me wanna poke my eyes out with rusty nails.

Apart from that, I'm actually considering picking one up. I was looking to buy one a few years ago when GM announced they were killing Saturn and dealerships were trying to get rid of them. For $10k and low mileage, it's a no brainer.

The hunt begins.

You can get a 2008 5 door Astra XE for cheap..this one only has 58,000 km, BIG sunroof, heated seats, set of Mich winter tires....( auto tho :( ) ...could probably land it for $7,000..

Not nearly as nice looking or as ' fun ' to drive as the the 3 door. std. ...but, its clean...with the 1.8L it's good cheap A-B transportation.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTQ4WDEwMjQ=/$T2eC16JHJF8E9nnC6UIwBP9doZeLlg~~48_20.JPG

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2008-Saturn-Astra-XE-Hatchback-W0QQAdIdZ393789448

[ottofly]

Were these known to have been imported from post katrina or anything shady? The interior is reallt shoddy almost like a toy prop but im just looking for reliable transpo. For the short term and this seems to fit the bill.

What about rhe link i posted. Seems like a great deal for50k on the odo. And also the ebgine bay is pretty much immaculate. eithwr this or for another few tgousand to upgrade to an accent / rio5 migjt be a little more prudent.

You call that an upgrade? Sounds like a downgrade to me. If you place any value on driving you will not get an accent/rio and just go for a XR 5sp coupe if you like the Astra. If you're going to get an Astra might as well do it right and buy the proper model. I'm sure derek can tell you it's a great driver's car whether you like the interior or not. Also, you may want to check insurance rates before you pick up an Astra. Probably costs a bit more than an accent/rio.

[Supercooled]

You can get a 2008 5 door Astra XE for cheap..this one only has 58,000 km, BIG sunroof, heated seats, set of Mich winter tires....( auto tho :( ) ...could probably land it for $7,000..

Not nearly as nice looking or as ' fun ' to drive as the the 3 door. std. ...but, its clean...with the 1.8L it's good cheap A-B transportation.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTQ4WDEwMjQ=/$T2eC16JHJF8E9nnC6UIwBP9doZeLlg~~48_20.JPG

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-2008-Saturn-Astra-XE-Hatchback-W0QQAdIdZ393789448

Wow, great find. Not too bad at all but I agree about the slushbox.


You call that an upgrade? Sounds like a downgrade to me. If you place any value on driving you will not get an accent/rio and just go for a XR 5sp coupe if you like the Astra. If you're going to get an Astra might as well do it right and buy the proper model. I'm sure derek can tell you it's a great driver's car whether you like the interior or not. Also, you may want to check insurance rates before you pick up an Astra. Probably costs a bit more than an accent/rio.

Hmm, I was referring to the new Accent/Rio5s. Sure it might might drive like a XR but it affords peace of mind.

BTW, I thought Ecotecs were the sole domain of Ford?

I liked this kid's review although he seems to have some factual error(s?).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haRFOh9yUtY&NR=1&feature=endscreen

[Cerebro]

5-door version has a huge sunroof. I agree 5 speed manual revs high on autobahn speeds but you get used to it. OP, if you end up getting the Astra get the stick version, automatic on this car sucks.I'm seriously considering having my sister give me a few pointers just to expand the pool of cars we can consider.

The 3-door Astra seems way nicer than the 5-door, but I dunno if I feel like manhandling a car seat in and out of that thing when I have to pick up my other sister's kid. Managed to convince my sister that domestic cars aren't necessarily the devil, so as it stands now, I'm keeping an eye on the Vibe, Astra, Versa, and the occasional Mazda 3 (though price and reliability will likely take the Mazda out of consideration)

[poedua]

I'm seriously considering having my sister give me a few pointers just to expand the pool of cars we can consider.

The 3-door Astra seems way nicer than the 5-door,

+1

No contest...the 3 door with the manual 5 speed is the ONLY way to go IMO.

The 3 door looks really nice with the 18" wheels ( below )

http://images.craigslist.org/5Gb5M55S13Gb3Mb3Idc6648b4cef674ba1e8d.jpg


but I dunno if I feel like manhandling a car seat in and out of that thing when I have to pick up my other sister's kid.

The 3-Door has front sliding seats that go forward quite a bit......so the access to the rear-seat is pretty easy compared to some other 3 door cars.

I know someone who had the 3 door with 2 young kids and 2 car sets and managed to get along pretty well.

But as I mentioned earlier one of the biggest ' gripes ' about the Astra is the lack of and poor positioning of cup holders ...for example, the ONLY front cup-holder is BEHIND the emergency brake ( see below )...very awkward...:(

http://i.oodleimg.com/item/2928911926u_18x424x360f_2008_saturn_astra/%3F1331655853




Managed to convince my sister that domestic cars aren't necessarily the devil, so as it stands now, I'm keeping an eye on the Vibe, Astra, Versa, and the occasional Mazda 3 (though price and reliability will likely take the Mazda out of consideration)

I'd aim for a 2009 5 speed manual Vibe

Great on gas with the 1.8L , fun / peppy to drive, decent cargo space, pretty reliable, lots of parts / easy to maintain, and an ' orphan ' car ( so LOTS of depreciation ...= great used prices ) ....AND six airbags, anti-lock brakes and stability control became standard for 2009........the key ' must have ' feature being stability control ....IMHO.

And, probably go no lower then the SE trim of Vibe ( i.e vs. the base trim )...the SE gives you air and cruise ( nice to have if you're doing 35,000 km a year ;) )

Vibe cabin seem pretty decent too...

http://ps1.cdnmedia.autotrader.ca/5/ppgphotos/2012/06/22/ON20090211111514201/ON20090211111514201_de54ceccbcd2423dab7e9fb27cdeb5 3c13-orig.jpg.

[Supercooled]

I just test drove the Elantra GT 6spd manual and I have to say it's a car that put a smile on my face. The dealership was so busy they just gave me the keys and said have fun. Little did they know, I red line that girl every chance I got and it was only 5k on it. After I came back there was a burning smell. I said, I want one, just not that particular one. :)

I have to say I'm very impressed with the drive but I found the interior cabin space to be very cramp. I'm only a shade taller than 5 foot but it still felt cramped to me.

I'm still debating on whether or not to get one or just buy a used, reliable car like the Astra, outright. I'm assuming the Ecotec 1.8 will perform very similar to the 1.8 GDI of the Hyundai of 148hp? Poedua do your thing, girl!

I'd be interested to know if anyone has test driven the Elantra (sedan/GT) and the 1.6 Accent/Veloster and compared the performance difference.

[coriolis]

I just test drove the Elantra GT 6spd manual and I have to say it's a car that put a smile on my face. The dealership was so busy they just gave me the keys and said have fun. Little did they know, I red line that girl every chance I got and it was only 5k on it. After I came back there was a burning smell. I said, I want one, just not that particular one. :)

I have to say I'm very impressed with the drive but I found the interior cabin space to be very cramp. I'm only a shade taller than 5 foot but it still felt cramped to me.

I'm still debating on whether or not to get one or just buy a used, reliable car like the Astra, outright. I'm assuming the Ecotec 1.8 will perform very similar to the 1.8 GDI of the Hyundai of 148hp? Poedua do your thing, girl!

I'd be interested to know if anyone has test driven the Elantra (sedan/GT) and the 1.6 Accent/Veloster and compared the performance difference.

Surprised you didn't take the Veloster Turbo for a spin too. As for the GT, I still find it to be pricey but it does make sense since its basically an i30 and not built on our Elantra platform.

As for the Astra, I looked into it too before I settled on my current Mazda3, the design is nice, the engine was sufficient with decent fuel economy, and the drive was very similar to my 3. The only thing that I didn't like was the interior, which completely ruled the car out. Seriously, if the Astra had an interior anything like the 3, that would be my choice.

[Supercooled]

I agree, the Astra's interior looks like something out of the original Star Trek series set. I can live with it since it's only $8-10k for a decent mileage one. The GT is something else. With the panoramic roof and the short shifter 6spd, it's pretty fun. Loved the acceleration. I really enjoyed the drive a lot so I'll sleep on it for a few days and see how I feel then when the high is gone.

I actually forgot about the Veloster when I was there. Plus, I don't think I want to pay close to a GTI/Genesis Coupe kind of money for a Veloster, 200hp be damned. GT is peppy enough.

[dibksbgon]

Might want to consider a used Toyota Matrix. They are fantastic little buggers. Personally would avoid Mazda's like the plague - as someone said depending on the year they are rusty pieces of junk.

[poedua]

Surprised you didn't take the Veloster Turbo for a spin too. As for the GT, I still find it to be pricey but it does make sense since its basically an i30 and not built on our Elantra platform.

As for the Astra, I looked into it too before I settled on my current Mazda3, the design is nice, the engine was sufficient with decent fuel economy, and the drive was very similar to my 3. The only thing that I didn't like was the interior, which completely ruled the car out. Seriously, if the Astra had an interior anything like the 3, that would be my choice.

Was that the sedan with the 2.0L engine or the hatch with the 2.3L ?

And on the Astra interior....I think it's a European thing...you either love it or you hate it.

That said, back in 2008, the #1 best selling passenger car in Europe was the VW Golf at 461,620 units...the Astra ( which Saturn imported from Europe to North America virtually unchanged ) was not too far behind at #7 with 321,012. So, even going against the Golf - which is known for it's nice cabins - the Astra seemed to more than hold it's own....but then again, it was appealing to Europe tastes....not North American.

Didn't find any data for Mazda 3 2008 sales, but, Mazda 3 sales in Europe for 2007 ranked #67 ...68,281 units. However, to be fair, the European Mazda 3 in Europe may not be the same one as the top 5 selling Mazda 3 over here.

http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2009/01/25/europe-2008-vw-golf-defies-the-gfc/

http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2008/01/25/europe-2007-peugeot-207-edges-vw-golf-out/

[darek_dade]

Was that the sedan with the 2.0L engine or the hatch with the 2.3L ?

And on the Astra interior....I think it's a European thing...you either love it or you hate it.

That said, back in 2008, the #1 best selling passenger car in Europe was the VW Golf at 461,620 units...the Astra ( which Saturn imported from Europe to North America virtually unchanged ) was not too far behind at #7 with 321,012. So, even going against the Golf - which is known for it's nice cabins - the Astra seemed to more than hold it's own....but then again, it was appealing to Europe tastes....not North American.

Didn't find any data for Mazda 3 2008 sales, but, Mazda 3 sales in Europe for 2007 ranked #67 ...68,281 units. However, to be fair, the European Mazda 3 in Europe may not be the same one as the top 5 selling Mazda 3 over here.

http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2009/01/25/europe-2008-vw-golf-defies-the-gfc/

http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2008/01/25/europe-2007-peugeot-207-edges-vw-golf-out/

European and American Mazdas are pretty much the same. OP, if you have any detailed questions about the Astra send me a PM.

[coriolis]

2.3 Hatch. Has horrible fuel economy :P But I liked the 3's interior a bit more, and the seats felt better after an hour or so. Exterior-wise, the Astra wins hands down. I'd love to be able to get one of the new Astra's from Europe here. Buick needs a hatchback, C'mon GM!

Here's the 3's interior:

http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Mazda/2006_mazda_3_manu_002.jpg

I assume this is the European 3:

http://img2.netcarshow.com/Mazda-3_5door_2004_1280x960_wallpaper_2f.jpg

The Saturn Astra:

http://0.tqn.com/d/cars/1/0/C/7/1/ag_08astra_xeintright.jpg

The Opel Astra:

http://img2.netcarshow.com/Opel-Astra_2004_800x600_wallpaper_18.jpg

And I want this. So. Badly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ewmP_vY6_g&feature=g-u-u


Was that the sedan with the 2.0L engine or the hatch with the 2.3L ?

And on the Astra interior....I think it's a European thing...you either love it or you hate it.

That said, back in 2008, the #1 best selling passenger car in Europe was the VW Golf at 461,620 units...the Astra ( which Saturn imported from Europe to North America virtually unchanged ) was not too far behind at #7 with 321,012. So, even going against the Golf - which is known for it's nice cabins - the Astra seemed to more than hold it's own....but then again, it was appealing to Europe tastes....not North American.

Didn't find any data for Mazda 3 2008 sales, but, Mazda 3 sales in Europe for 2007 ranked #67 ...68,281 units. However, to be fair, the European Mazda 3 in Europe may not be the same one as the top 5 selling Mazda 3 over here.

http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2009/01/25/europe-2008-vw-golf-defies-the-gfc/

http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2008/01/25/europe-2007-peugeot-207-edges-vw-golf-out/

[darek_dade]

I actually don't mind the interior of Astra at all but I have the leather interior. Quality of plastics is better than the Mazda 3.

[Voltex]

OP, you might want to consider the 2002-2005 Civic hatchback too. It's a nice little fun car to drive and it's within your price range. The only real negative is the position of the shifter.

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/3170000-3170999/3170854_7_full.jpg

[Ironsmack]

Might want to consider a used Toyota Matrix. They are fantastic little buggers. Personally would avoid Mazda's like the plague - as someone said depending on the year they are rusty pieces of junk.

He/She is. The Matrix is based on the same platform as the Vibe. Even share most of its mechanical underlings except the body panels/interior.

[Ironsmack]

And I want this. So. Badly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ewmP_vY6_g&feature=g-u-u

I agree. Everyone else except NA gets the cooler cars. And NA is stuck with slush-o-matics :facepalm: .

[jason9945]

Apparently I'm the last person who doesn't want traction control and ESP.

[poedua]

Apparently I'm the last person who doesn't want traction control and ESP.

Why the heck would you not want ESP ?

Like air bags.....that technology could save your life.

[Supercooled]

That VXR is pretty damn hot. I would take that over the Golf R any day. So is Vauxhall/Open subsidiary or wholly owned by General Motors? It's such a shame they don't bring it over because it would definitely steal sales from the GTI(R), MS3, and all the hot hatches here. Actually, I couldn't help but think if Hyundai came out with a sportier 2 door version of their GT, they too, could get into the hot hatch segment quite easily. Throw in the Sonata/Gencoupe 2.0T and give it a bit more ground effects and you've got a decent competitor.

[jason9945]

Why the heck would you not want ESP ?

Like air bags.....that technology could save your life.

Because it is one more expensive thing that can break, plus I know how to drive.

[poedua]

Because it is one more expensive thing that can break, plus I know how to drive.

Then you don't understand how ESP works.

Not withstanding the fact that ESP does selective computer controlled braking, it does it far faster than is humanly possible.

You could be the best driver in the world and it would still be impossible for you to replicate ESP dynamics.

[Supercooled]

Then you don't understand how ESP works.

Not withstanding the fact that ESP does selective computer controlled braking, it does it far faster than is humanly possible.

You could be the best driver in the world and it would still be impossible for you to replicate ESP dynamics.

Not even if his name is Aryton Senna? :-0

[poedua]

Not even if his name is Aryton Senna? :-0

Sadly...'fraid so.:(

[jason9945]

Then you don't understand how ESP works.

Not withstanding the fact that ESP does selective computer controlled braking, it does it far faster than is humanly possible.

You could be the best driver in the world and it would still be impossible for you to replicate ESP dynamics.

I've never even come remotely close to loosing traction when driving, let along losing control of a vehicle. I don't understand why a car, especially a compact or subcompact car would need these systems. ESP is great for top heavy suv's and trucks that idiots want to drive like cars. All of these systems cause people to cease to take driving seriously, as evidenced by the "I don't need snow tires I have abs/traction control/stability control/ a rabbits foot hanging from my rear view that I hear every damn winter.

I also don't want power windows, but that IS impossible to find.

[poedua]

I've never even come remotely close to loosing traction when driving, let along losing control of a vehicle. I don't understand why a car, especially a compact or subcompact car would need these systems..

2 words - accident avoidance.

The rationale for having ESC is the same one for wearing seat belts IMO.


ESP is great for top heavy suv's and trucks that idiots want to drive like cars. All of these systems cause people to cease to take driving seriously, as evidenced by the "I don't need snow tires I have abs/traction control/stability control/ a rabbits foot hanging from my rear view that I hear every damn winter.

Actually, it works effectively for all cars...and that's why it's becoming a standard feature on many vehicles today..


" ESC can reduce the risk of single-vehicle crashes by more than 40 percent—fatal ones by 56 percent. The researchers estimate that if all vehicles were equipped with ESC, as many as 10,000 fatal crashes could be avoided each year "

http://www.garyeto.com/auto/electronic-stability.html


Go to 2:05 in this clip to see ESC/ESP in action...at 112/km/hr....btw the Astra coupe came with ESC/ESP standard !;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=K3m24bjkfg0#t=0s

[jason9945]

Actually, it works effectively for all cars...and that's why it's becoming a standard feature on many vehicles today..


I never said it didn't work, I just don't want to have to pay thousands of dollars when a sensor trips up when my car is only a few years old.

[poedua]

I never said it didn't work, I just don't want to have to pay thousands of dollars when a sensor trips up when my car is only a few years old.

Fair enough.

And that's probably cause ESC is most bundled as part of a larger trim / option package ...but ESC itself isn't necessarily that costly..... for example, according to to Wiki...." The retail price of ESC varies; as a stand-alone option it retails for as little as $250 USD "

Either way, ESC is a valuable potentially life-saving option - and it's a functionality a human can't replicate.

Like I said earlier ...I think it's a ' must have ' option IMHO.

[Tornado F2]

When considering your budget, don't forget taxes and insurance. Insurance can be a major part of the total expense of owning an automobile, even for those of us with completely clean records and practical 4 door cars. (I really don't see why though. It feels like we're subsidising the dangerous, multi-accident, idiot drivers on the road. It would be far better if their premiums were hiked accordingly, to keep them off the road instead).

[Tornado F2]

I've never even come remotely close to loosing traction when driving, let along losing control of a vehicle. I don't understand why a car, especially a compact or subcompact car would need these systems. ESP is great for top heavy suv's and trucks that idiots want to drive like cars. All of these systems cause people to cease to take driving seriously, as evidenced by the "I don't need snow tires I have abs/traction control/stability control/ a rabbits foot hanging from my rear view that I hear every damn winter.

I also don't want power windows, but that IS impossible to find.

I agree. I've never felt even close to rolling my cars, even while rounding highway ramps at above the posted speed (not stupidly, mind - I have a healthy regard for the laws of physics). The vehicles most prone to rolling are those that are inately top-heavy: SUVs, Jeeps, UPS trucks, etc. Regular cars, driven on paved roads, on a reasonably consistent path (no sudden sharp turning of the steering wheel) shouldn't really need the feature at all. While it's great if ESC, ABS, etc, can be added to cars at a reasonably low cost - then I'd see no reason not to support it - the fact is that they just keep pushing up the cost of vehicles, for no great gain in most cases. They also encourage lazy, unsafe driving habits. Similarly, packing a car with multiple airbags (up to 11 in the tiny, overpriced Scion iQ for example) can get truly ridiculous. Instead auto manufacturers should work on developing better, safer, basic designs for their products. In the case of the iQ for example, probably about half those airbags are there to protect the two passengers theoretically perched in the back (with practically zero legroom BTW), with their heads a mere inch in front of the rear window, which is itself just inches ahead of the tiny rear bumber (and bumpers barely deserve to be called "bumpers" these days). If Toyota would just be honest, build it with seating for just two and their cargo (as it should be) then 6 or so airbags could be removed, the car would instantly become less of a deathtrap, and the pricing could be slashed to a more competitive level. It would then become a successful competitor to the Smart - cheaper, more practical, and safer. As it currently exists, they really shouldn't allow the iQ to be sold in Canada at all. Are our young drivers really considered that disposable?

http://autos.sympatico.ca/docs/sizes/4fe7c970ea179/large/130915-large-Airbag-Safety-_2.jpg

BTW, the best way to make driving safer: Make sure every licenced driver knows how to drive safely, and not like a maniac. Those who disregard this basic road courtesy, putting others' lives in unnecessary jeopardy, should lose the right to drive, at least until they wisen up. They should also be banned from driving larger, more potentially-deadly vehicles. Let them drive the tiny iQs instead - with NO airbags. Then they'll value safe driving.

[jason9945]

Fair enough.

And that's probably cause ESC is most bundled as part of a larger trim / option package ...but ESC itself isn't necessarily that costly..... for example, according to to Wiki...." The retail price of ESC varies; as a stand-alone option it retails for as little as $250 USD "

Either way, ESC is a valuable potentially life-saving option - and it's a functionality a human can't replicate.

Like I said earlier ...I think it's a ' must have ' option IMHO.
You are aware that ESC is the law right? All cars built since September 2011 must have it right?



BTW, the best way to make driving safer: Make sure every licenced driver knows how to drive safely, and not like a maniac. Those who disregard this basic road courtesy, putting others' lives in unnecessary jeopardy, should lose the right to drive, at least until they wisen up. They should also be banned from driving larger, more potentially-deadly vehicles. Let them drive the tiny iQs instead - with NO airbags. Then they'll value safe driving.

The stuff I see people do on a daily basis is incredible. Its got to the point where if you actually drive properly (stopping behind the line stop line, actually stopping at a stop sign, actually stopping at a right light) you really run more of a risk of getting into a collision than the sloppy drivers. The thing was really blows my mind was the thread that popped up here where somebody was outraged that they charged somebody with something after they were in an accident - the poster thought that being in the accident was punishment enough. I keep telling myself that post must have been a joke. I know people who have totalled half a dozen cars, and all they have to do is pay a few more bucks each month for insurance. :facepalm:

[Tornado F2]

You are aware that ESC is the law right? All cars built since September 2011 must have it right?



The stuff I see people do on a daily basis is incredible. Its got to the point where if you actually drive properly (stopping behind the line stop line, actually stopping at a stop sign, actually stopping at a right light) you really run more of a risk of getting into a collision than the sloppy drivers. The thing was really blows my mind was the thread that popped up here where somebody was outraged that they charged somebody with something after they were in an accident - the poster thought that being in the accident was punishment enough. I keep telling myself that post must have been a joke. I know people who have totalled half a dozen cars, and all they have to do is pay a few more bucks each month for insurance. :facepalm:

Auto insurance really needs some major correction, especially here in Ontario, it's that screwed up. I see young drivers posting their rates here on RFD and I wonder how they can afford to spend such insane amounts just to insure themselves, let alone pay the expenses of running a car, yet without gaining experience their rates won't drop. Then I hear of experienced drivers who have driven accident-free for decades, then they have a couple of minor accidents within a short period, more down to bad luck than sudden bad driving, (for example one I know was hit by a fence post tumbling down the highway off the back of a truck - not their fault at all), and they're suddenly hit with punishingly-high premiums that, in some cases I'm sure, force them to stop driving altogether or - probably far more often than we'd like - drive uninsured (which is a criminal offense BTW, just in case anybody's considering it). Meanwhile, as you say, chronic offenders seemingly get away with a small slap on the wrists - especially those well-off enough financially to be able to have lawyers contest their every ticket. In fact the main thing I've noticed about idiot drivers is that they usually drive expensive cars. Somehow in this country we've got to the point where the morons have the money, while the intelligent, sensible, hard-working majority are lucky to scrape together enough to barely get by. Where did we, as a society, go so wrong? Anyway, society at large will have to wait - let's get auto insurance fixed first. Hopefully then, when the high premiums are charged to the people who deserve them - the habitually bad/dangerous drivers - they'll then find themselves with a lot less disposable income to blow on their oversized death machines, and hopefully deprived of the ability to kill/maim others with them.

[Supercooled]

My sister who had one accident teaching her son driving who ran into a stationtary had it increase from 150 to 600 a month.

[Tornado F2]

My sister who had one accident teaching her son driving who ran into a stationtary had it increase from 150 to 600 a month.

Ouch!

Hopefully your nephew will at least learn from that sadly expensive accident.

But who in the family will be able to afford to drive now? Will the father now have to drive everybody everywhere? Or will his premium be bumped too, by mere association? Driving a car is becoming an increasingly-unfeasible option. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot more GTA residents switch over to public transit before the end of this decade. It's not ideal, but at least it's not such blatant "highway robbery".

[Supercooled]

I was shockwd she still paid it. some other company wanted 900. that is more than probably both their cars financing which are a civic and yaris. Effing unreal.

[poedua]

You are aware that ESC is the law right? All cars built since September 2011 must have it right?:

The OP had a budget of $9,000 for a used car.....so I was thinking a market of 2008 or so models ....not 2011's.

Many ( if not most ) non-luxury 2008 or so models had ESC as ' options '.

[legacy40k]

I have a 2007 Versa SL CVT and have been quite happy with it. It's at 155,000 KM now. It's VERY practical and decent on gas. Drives well too. It's certainly not ugly, and despite being 7 years on the same design now, it doesn't look dated.

[Cerebro]

So after persuading my sister to consider domestic cars and getting her to teach me the basics of driving stick, we ended up getting a 2007 Honda Fit Sport instead of any of the cars you guys have helpfully suggested. My neighbour is 75 and no longer able to drive, so he offered it to us for $5000 since he's known my parents forever. It's kind of a hideous orange colour, but at almost half our budget we decided we could live with it. And if we come to hate it we can always sell it for more than we paid.

[Voltex]

Congratz on the new ride man! For 5k that's a steal. I'm sure you'll like it the more you drive it.

[poedua]

So after persuading my sister to consider domestic cars and getting her to teach me the basics of driving stick, we ended up getting a 2007 Honda Fit Sport instead of any of the cars you guys have helpfully suggested. My neighbour is 75 and no longer able to drive, so he offered it to us for $5000 since he's known my parents forever. It's kind of a hideous orange colour, but at almost half our budget we decided we could live with it. And if we come to hate it we can always sell it for more than we paid.

GREAT buy....for a GREAT little car...one of the best values on the market ( i.e both Consumer Reports and the Lemon-Aid Guide LOVE this car ) at a fair price IMHO....even more so at the great price you got !

Kudos ....well done !:)

How many kms ?

Auto I assume ?

[Bomberman07]

grats for your new ride :)

[koffey]

Well done and great price.

[DJ_Peanuts22]

$5000 for a Fit is a steal!

Congrats!

[Tornado F2]

So after persuading my sister to consider domestic cars and getting her to teach me the basics of driving stick, we ended up getting a 2007 Honda Fit Sport instead of any of the cars you guys have helpfully suggested. My neighbour is 75 and no longer able to drive, so he offered it to us for $5000 since he's known my parents forever. It's kind of a hideous orange colour, but at almost half our budget we decided we could live with it. And if we come to hate it we can always sell it for more than we paid.

That's a nice solution.

Be sure to return the kindness by offering your neighbour a lift from time to time. It can't be nice losing your independence like he just has.

[Matrixvibe]

$5k? Thats a great price, did it fit your budget? :razz:

[Cerebro]

GREAT buy....for a GREAT little car...one of the best values on the market ( i.e both Consumer Reports and the Lemon-Aid Guide LOVE this car ) at a fair price IMHO....even more so at the great price you got !

Kudos ....well done !:)

How many kms ?

Auto I assume ?96K and yep, it's automatic.


That's a nice solution.

Be sure to return the kindness by offering your neighbour a lift from time to time. It can't be nice losing your independence like he just has.Yeah, I told him he can always hit me up for a ride. He's a cool guy;; still motors around the neighbourhood in his scooter like he's Speed Racer.


$5k? Thats a great price, did it fit your budget? :razz::facepalm:

[Konowl]

+1 for the Vibe...pretty reliable, and great on gas with the 1.8L engine.

Also, I think the '09 came with electronic stability control as a standard feature. Personally, I'd put things like a sunroof, leather etc. etc. much lower in priority in favour of electronic stability control. Electronic stability control would be a ' must have ' IMO - it could save your life.;)

And on the topic if ESP, a ' dark horse ' option might be an ' orphaned ' 2008 Saturn Astra hatch ( below ...with 18" alloys ) which has a GM 1.8L Ecotec engine and is loaded with standard features ( in the coupe ) and pretty ' peppy ' / ' fun ' to drive with.......

- air
- cruise control
- steering-wheel-mounted audio controls
- rain-sensing wipers
- a trip computer
- tilt/telescoping steering
- fog lights
- ESP
- 4 wheel antilock disc brakes
- heated seats,
- front-seat side airbags, full-length side-curtain airbags
- a nice ' soft touch ' interior instead of cheap plastic

.... it was a direct import from Europe where 100's of thousands have been sold in the past few years....and still are.

You could probably pick a coupe up for about $9,000 with 50,000 - 75,000 km on it.



I went and test drove one Saturday. Nice looking car. The inside is.... different. It's completely liveable and workable, it's just different. Reminds me of the 1990 Ford Probe GT I almost bought when I was younger. The handling on the base XE I drove was pretty amazing - huge fan. I'm actually thinking about pulling the trigger on this car, it's cheap for an 09 - you can barely get a Hyundai Accent for the same price, but the reliability and sorting parts scares the hell out of me.

[poedua]

I went and test drove one Saturday. Nice looking car. The inside is.... different. It's completely liveable and workable, it's just different. Reminds me of the 1990 Ford Probe GT I almost bought when I was younger. The handling on the base XE I drove was pretty amazing - huge fan. I'm actually thinking about pulling the trigger on this car, it's cheap for an 09 - you can barely get a Hyundai Accent for the same price, but the reliability and sorting parts scares the hell out of me.

FWIW...Haldimand in Cayuga has a '08 3 door ' XR ' manual Saturn Astra with about 79,000 km - with leather and a sun-roof ( very rare options ) - for around $10,995.