Advice for a Newbie on Buying an Old Honda Civic ((HELP!!))

[foxysocks]

Hey all of you here in the forum, just wondering if you might have some sage advice for a young, single, female student who needs some wheels.

For the last five years I've driven beaters. About a year and a half ago, I was in an accident and received a payout for my car. I decided to take some time before purchasing a new one, so I've been taking transit ever since and searching for the "perfect car."

Recently, what with summer being upon us and having scrimped and saved my little pennies from my part time job, I decided to amp up my search and try to get something in the 3 - 4k range. I have been searching craigslist, kijiji, autotrader daily for what I have been looking for:

Every mechanic I've talked to recommended hondas, so I decided I would get a civic.
I want something less than 200k.
I want something good on gas.
I want something already certified and etested and every car I have looked at I have taken to a mechanic.

The advice I am searching for is about a car I saw two days ago. It was a private listing; 2001 Honda Civic coupe with automatic transmission, 177k, new sound system, set of all season and winter tires (in decent shape, nothing super special or new), power locks/windows keyless entry, a small bit of rust but in general good condition. The seller was second owner and had paperwork to show work that had been done including some stuff for recent safety.

So of course when I went to go see it, I asked the seller to accompany me to a local mechanic. I even used one that had been recommended here on the forums. However, when we went, the mechanic was quite rude to the seller right off the bat. He then inspected the car and came back with a number of issues. He said the fan belt was dirty, so he imagined the timing belt had never been replaced. Seller disputed this saying the previous owner had told him it was replaced, but the mechanic pressed on that the fan belt should have been replaced as well if they replaced timing belt. He then said that there was an area along the brake line (didn't specify where) that was uncovered by coating and was completely corroded (had not been undercoated), would need to be replaced ASAP. This would be a costly repair, he said. He also pointed out that the back bumper of the car looked to be a slightly different colour than the rest of it, and that the tranny fluid should be flushed because it was very dirty.

Needless to say, the the mechanic told me not to buy the vehicle.

The seller had a little freak out and insisted on bringing me to his own mechanic who had serviced the vehicle three times, including its safety certification. When we arrived he left the room so I could talk to the mechanic, who acknowledged there was rust underneath the car so the brake line may be rusted, but overall said it wasn't an urgent repair and possibly could even be spot-fixed which wouldn't be as expensive as replacing the whole line.

After talking to the mechanic, I drove back to the seller's house and he located a receipt from Canadian Tire indicating that the timing belt had, in fact, been replaced in 2007 by the previous owners. He also agreed that he would knock $200 off his asking price of 4k, but that he would not go any lower than that.

I have been looking for quite some time for a vehicle, and am at a point where I am willing to pay a fair price if I know what I am getting into. I really want my search to be over. My fear, however, is the brake line issue or the rust underneath the car, and whether this might lead to a costly repair in the near future. I am still a student and while I know I'm buying a very old vehicle, I want to avoid getting into something that is a ticking time bomb for a $500 - $600 repair job. At the same time, I feel like every car I've looked at (because I am looking at such old cars) has had SOMETHING that needed replacing or could "go". I am wondering if I would be totally stupid for taking this deal. Thoughts?

[DJ_Peanuts22]

Take a look at a 1996-2000 Civic instead. They seem to be more reliable.

Wear and tear items are normal on cars of this age. Just watch out for rust.

I would try to locate a one owner car with all maintenance records included. Mileage is only a number if you do.

[dryder]

Do a search on trader.ca for the model year, kms etc and see what the going price is there. It will give you an idea as to what they are selling for and if this person is in and around the same range.

Ask for a CarProof - it's the history of the vehicle, where it will show if the vehicle has been in an accident. If it has, it will tell you what the cost was to repair it. If it was a huge repair job to get it back on the road, you might want to just walk away from it and continue on searching. The timing belt - what are the intervals that it has to be changed at? What is the cost involved? I am not that familiar with Honda, but you may want to find that out. If it was changed in 2007 and it has 177,000 kms are it, how close is it to having to be done again? The guy that is selling , what is he driving now? Reason I ask is that of course they will clean the car up and have it looking its best in order to sell it. It will look like it was taken care of etc. I'm not sure if you can get a chance to, but keep this in mind, if you are walking by the current vehicle of a person who is selling a car, take a quick glance inside it. If there is trash and crap all inside, then that is typically a good indication of how well they maintained it. Yes I know, he showed you maintenance records ... which is great ... but still.

A Coupe, have you checked what your insurance is going to be?

Hope it helps

[wing0]

I would suggest not to go for a 2001 model year due to high rate of automatic transmission failure. When was the last time the transmission fluid was changed? The first mechanic mentioned it looked dirty.

Also hondas first year model has not been stellar. I am speaking from personal experience. You can check carcomplaints.com for common issue. It is biased towards people who complain but at least you will see what type of thing is more likely to break. Transmission is not cheap to repair to change.

Two more things that are expensive to repair on this 7th generation civic is head gasket leak and front suspension structs. Look those up as they appear later in a car life. Our family previous civic had headgaske problem at around 144k.

If you are looking a 96-00 year. Try to get the coupe si or acura 1.6el so you can get the d16Y8 engine with vtec. Vtec jokes aside, the lower trim gets a d16y7 that has a high failure rate of catalytic converter. It is also a specific design that Honda seems to produce the most reliable one but still fails after around 100-120k. So Its expensive to replace or you can get aftermarket ones that may throw engine light on and also fail emission.

For 3-4k. It's going to take you a while to find "the one" because you want avoid as much maintenance needed afterwards as possible. I helped a friend get something similar with similar budget but ended up looking at 12-15 car in person before finding the one that makes me feel comfortable to recommend.

Good luck. Any other question is welcome since I did research on this with similar budgets.

[foxysocks]

Thank you both for your replies.

I decided last night to pass on the car after I ran a carfax report and found out it had been in an accident in 2004 (which had not been disclosed to me by the seller) and the odometer had been turned back 40k.

However, there is another car I have been looking at. It is a 1997 Honda Civic (sedan though, not the coupe) which has 155k original kilometres and is being sold by the original owner with all service records and, according to him, has had all the regular maintenance done. He is asking 2100 and throwing in winter tires. My only fear with this older model is that, as far as I know, nothing major has been replaced and it is a standard car. Worried about the clutch and I guess timing belt and such. I asked him to give me the number for the mechanic who has serviced the car so I can call him and get an overview of it's condition. Otherwise, it is in meticulous shape. No rust on the body, everything works and is original. Any words of advice on this?

I really appreciate all your feedback because, as I said, I'm no car person and neither are any of my friends. Makes me feel like I'm on a bit of an island all alone surrounded by sharks!

[xserverfd]

Take a look at a 1996-2000 Civic instead. They seem to be more reliable.

Wear and tear items are normal on cars of this age. Just watch out for rust.

I would try to locate a one owner car with all maintenance records included. Mileage is only a number if you do.

Agreed, these years were much more reliable. That next generation 01-05 had major tranny issues in the first few years.

[litebrite]

From a current 1998 Civic SI owner, I agree with the other posters. I bought mycar 2nd hand in 2005 with 60 000 km and it's up to 190 000 km now. Still going strong, just been the usual maintenance. Replaced my radiator and alternator within the last couple yrs, but I figured that's normal wear and tear.

[Voltex]

Thank you both for your replies.

I decided last night to pass on the car after I ran a carfax report and found out it had been in an accident in 2004 (which had not been disclosed to me by the seller) and the odometer had been turned back 40k.

However, there is another car I have been looking at. It is a 1997 Honda Civic (sedan though, not the coupe) which has 155k original kilometres and is being sold by the original owner with all service records and, according to him, has had all the regular maintenance done. He is asking 2100 and throwing in winter tires. My only fear with this older model is that, as far as I know, nothing major has been replaced and it is a standard car. Worried about the clutch and I guess timing belt and such. I asked him to give me the number for the mechanic who has serviced the car so I can call him and get an overview of it's condition. Otherwise, it is in meticulous shape. No rust on the body, everything works and is original. Any words of advice on this?

I really appreciate all your feedback because, as I said, I'm no car person and neither are any of my friends. Makes me feel like I'm on a bit of an island all alone surrounded by sharks!

Damn, no rust 96-00 Civic with only 155k and one owner? $2100 is a steal.

[ottofly]

From a current 1998 Civic SI owner, I agree with the other posters. I bought mycar 2nd hand in 2005 with 60 000 km and it's up to 190 000 km now. Still going strong, just been the usual maintenance. Replaced my radiator and alternator within the last couple yrs, but I figured that's normal wear and tear.

+1

Another 98 Civic Si owner bought original and still in the family. Car has 260,000K and engine, clutch, gearbox are all original. Still runs beautifully. Only things replaced other than normal stuff is a distributor, radiator and both front wheel bearings.



However, there is another car I have been looking at. It is a 1997 Honda Civic (sedan though, not the coupe) which has 155k original kilometres and is being sold by the original owner with all service records and, according to him, has had all the regular maintenance done. He is asking 2100 and throwing in winter tires. My only fear with this older model is that, as far as I know, nothing major has been replaced and it is a standard car. Worried about the clutch and I guess timing belt and such. I asked him to give me the number for the mechanic who has serviced the car so I can call him and get an overview of it's condition. Otherwise, it is in meticulous shape. No rust on the body, everything works and is original. Any words of advice on this?

I really appreciate all your feedback because, as I said, I'm no car person and neither are any of my friends. Makes me feel like I'm on a bit of an island all alone surrounded by sharks!

I would definitely look at this one closer. This is exactly what you should be looking for and the price is right. Get the car inspected by the first mechanic you found here @ RFD and just negotiate a cheaper price if anything needs changing or repairing. Repairs are dirt cheap for this car and parts are everywhere. As for the timing belt the one in our 98 Civic is going on 7 years and 140,000KM. Gets inspected every 6 months and no glazing or nicks in it at all. My mechanic says 5 years 100K is too early for timing belt change on a Honda and many Honda timing belts can see twice that service easily.

[wing0]

Thank you both for your replies.

I decided last night to pass on the car after I ran a carfax report and found out it had been in an accident in 2004 (which had not been disclosed to me by the seller) and the odometer had been turned back 40k.

However, there is another car I have been looking at. It is a 1997 Honda Civic (sedan though, not the coupe) which has 155k original kilometres and is being sold by the original owner with all service records and, according to him, has had all the regular maintenance done. He is asking 2100 and throwing in winter tires. My only fear with this older model is that, as far as I know, nothing major has been replaced and it is a standard car. Worried about the clutch and I guess timing belt and such. I asked him to give me the number for the mechanic who has serviced the car so I can call him and get an overview of it's condition. Otherwise, it is in meticulous shape. No rust on the body, everything works and is original. Any words of advice on this?

I really appreciate all your feedback because, as I said, I'm no car person and neither are any of my friends. Makes me feel like I'm on a bit of an island all alone surrounded by sharks!

Examine the rear wheelwell where the bumper meets the metal body. See if there are any bubbling under then paint.
Open up the trunk, and lift up the carpet closest to the bumper and see if there are rust there too.
Ask the seller if it has been rustproofed every year.

If you are taking the car to a mechanic, ask to check if the exhaust manifold+catalytic converter has been changed before(unless seller shows you that it has). Get an OBD scan just in case to ensure there is no P0420 Error Code: Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold.

When stopping, place your foot on the brake pedal and see if you can feel vibration around the wheel and pedal area. Usually the motor mounts around that age and mileage is worn out. You can drive it if it doesn't annoy you, but will cost money to replace.

Are you looking for manual or automatic? How long you're going to keep this car for? Take those into your consideration on the transmission choice.
Will anybody else drive this vehicle?

[Mars2012]

Examine the rear wheelwell where the bumper meets the metal body. See if there are any bubbling under then paint.

It's funny you should mention this. Our '95 Civic fell apart at that point too. My husband managed to bolt it in place somehow and the repair looked alright. I saw a few more Civics with the same issue. We sold the car last year and bought a 2011 model for the children's use...just prior to that, it was needing some repair or another every few months (after needing virtually zero major repairs for the first 15 years).

[wing0]

It's funny you should mention this. Our '95 Civic fell apart at that point too. My husband managed to bolt it in place somehow and the repair looked alright. I saw a few more Civics with the same issue. We sold the car last year and bought a 2011 model for the children's use...just prior to that, it was needing some repair or another every few months (after needing virtually zero major repairs for the first 15 years).

That's typically where most older Honda start rusting because that's where all the salt spray hits over time.
Since around the 7th gen, Honda has gotten better but time will tell.

Older Protege/Mazda3 also shows rust at that same spot too.

[foxysocks]

Thanks for all that great info. I will do my best to check. As I said, don't think I will have time to bring it to a mechanic. Found out via carfax that it was in two accidents, one being last year to the tune of $1500. I've heard you should avoid a car that has been in an accident at all costs - should I just write it off completely, or ask the seller for details? I mean, as I said it seems like a good car and the records show he is the original owner. Don't know if I should just keep looking.


Maybe I should just get another cavalier.

[wing0]

Thanks for all that great info. I will do my best to check. As I said, don't think I will have time to bring it to a mechanic. Found out via carfax that it was in two accidents, one being last year to the tune of $1500. I've heard you should avoid a car that has been in an accident at all costs - should I just write it off completely, or ask the seller for details? I mean, as I said it seems like a good car and the records show he is the original owner. Don't know if I should just keep looking.


Maybe I should just get another cavalier.

$1500, if went through insurance could be replacement of a bumper + paint job plus other misc stuff.
This could explain why it looks so new. Maybe a somewhat new paintjob in some portion of the vehicle. Try to fill the edges of metal to see if there is any roughness or bulges.
How about the first accident?

Just a story of mine:
I've done carproof on a car before that showed $45 claim before when owner didn't know anything about it. Until he remembered that it was for jumpstarting the car and it made it into carproof. It also had another accident to the tune of 2000 something before he even bought the car from dealership and he didn't have any idea of it too. 12 years later, still no rust due to his annual rustproofing. We still didn't end up getting the car because it has the catalytic converter problem.

A cavalier is actually quite reliable from what I heard, especially the ecotec 2.2L. The only complaint about that engine was the timing chain tensioner which people usually replace around 120K(IIRC). Other than that, the build quality of interior is probably not as good as the civic. It also got a very poor side impact safety rating.

[DJ_Peanuts22]

Thanks for all that great info. I will do my best to check. As I said, don't think I will have time to bring it to a mechanic. Found out via carfax that it was in two accidents, one being last year to the tune of $1500. I've heard you should avoid a car that has been in an accident at all costs - should I just write it off completely, or ask the seller for details? I mean, as I said it seems like a good car and the records show he is the original owner. Don't know if I should just keep looking.


Maybe I should just get another cavalier.

Skip the Cavalier.

Ask the seller for specific details on the accident. If you have a trusted mechanic, you can make arrangements to have the seller drop off the car for a pre-sale inspection. You don't have to be present for it.

It's a small price to pay for peace of mind.

[foxysocks]

Thanks so much all. This thread has been a real help! So glad I found this forum.

I'm pleased to report that I have purchased the 1997 Honda Civic (original owner, 155k) I wrote about previously. I had the seller give me copies of all the service history and a contact number for the mechanic who has been servicing it for the last three years. I called the mechanic and asked him a few questions about the general condition of the car's mechanical parts. He confirmed that it was well-maintained, all major work done including timing belt in recent years. I know it would have been better to take it to a separate mechanic, but I felt that this was sufficient for me after seeing the vehicle first-hand.

Also, as I said the carfax totally checked out on this one except for the one collision that seller didn't tell me about. I called and asked him again if it had ever been in an accident and this time he explained that yes, it had but that it had been in a parking lot and the driver side door had been replaced.

Either way, I figured for 2100 (including etest and certification, plus a set of almost-new winter tires) it was what I was looking for. Happy with my purchase, and again thank you to all of you for helping a girl out when in need.

I've attached some pics so you can take a look.

http://oi50.tinypic.com/1424exk.jpg

http://oi48.tinypic.com/2iru9w6.jpg

http://oi49.tinypic.com/24ycuxh.jpg

http://oi50.tinypic.com/290raxk.jpg

http://oi49.tinypic.com/e8u58o.jpg