Toronto vs Ottawa - Jobs & Family life?

[jedi1648]

It strikes me that many young people prefer Toronto where there are more bars, restaurants, and more jobs (though more competitors). Is it a better place to raise a family too?

Ottawa is a government city with maybe 35% of residents working for the 3 levels of govt. The jobs are generally secured, life pace may be slow, and you dont see people driving expensive cars like those in Toronto.

[coolspot]

Ottawa is a nice city, but I think Toronto has a lot more to offer.

[spike1128]

Jedi, weren't you the one on here that was asking should you get a job in Toronto b/c of gf going to Toronto. Yet you were doing an analyst job in Ottawa?

I don't agree with Coolspot, he is clearly bias being in Scarborough.

I would say that lived in both cities. I prefer Toronto more than Ottawa, if I can get rid of these new immigrants. They really ruined it.

Toronto
1) Bigger city
2) More jobs / opportunity
3) Warmer winter
4) More night life
5) More scumbags
6) Can be only speaking English
7) More crowded
8) Higher cost of living
9) Decent ethnic foods

Ottawa
1) Smaller city
2) Mostly government job, get paid less than Toronto for sure if in private sector
3) Very cold winter, I can't stand this one for sure
4) Less night life / More family life = raise family there is better
5) Feel out of place if can't speak French
6) Less crowded, like the population densely there, hate Toronto's
7) Lower cost of living
8) Food is not as diverse, crapper ethnic foods

I would move back to Ottawa if job offer same pay/ security. The winters are milder. And the food being better than crappy.

[dibksbgon]

Hubby and I have gone over this many times. It is only with our recent trips back to Toronto/GTA that we decided we could not move back.
Love Toronto. I really do. And in my ideal world I would have a job in downtown Toronto I could walk or TTC to and have a condo or semi detached house (lol at prices). But that is not us and wouldn't happen.

The two detractions of the GTA that are insurmountable for us: cost of living is absolutely ridiculous and traffic. Yes I say GTA and know there is a difference between T.O and the GTA but in order to afford anything reasonable for a family you would not be in a downtown condo.

The thing we love about Toronto is the food and that you could take years to enjoy every restaurant of every variety.

[LaserEnvy]

No offense but Ottawa is a terrible place. It is cold, unbelievably boring, down town completely shuts down after 5pm and on weekends (it's like the walking dead), there's no food selection, people drive at 90km/hr, and people there are prudes.

It's true Toronto has bad traffic but I'll take it over living in Ottawa. Gross!

[webdoctors]

Why do you think Ottawa has milder winters? I thought winter is worse there due to being farther up North?

Obviously the #1 consideration is money/jobs. If you can find a job in the better city (Toronto), you'd take it. If you can't, than living in Ottawa is fine. I mean a real job that can pay for a Toronto lifestyle, not being a secretary and expecting to have a detached house in Rosedale.


Jedi, weren't you the one on here that was asking should you get a job in Toronto b/c of gf going to Toronto. Yet you were doing an analyst job in Ottawa?

I don't agree with Coolspot, he is clearly bias being in Scarborough.

I would say that lived in both cities. I prefer Toronto more than Ottawa, if I can get rid of these new immigrants. They really ruined it.

Toronto
1) Bigger city
2) More jobs / opportunity
3) Warmer winter
4) More night life
5) More scumbags
6) Can be only speaking English
7) More crowded
8) Higher cost of living
9) Decent ethnic foods

Ottawa
1) Smaller city
2) Mostly government job, get paid less than Toronto for sure if in private sector
3) Very cold winter, I can't stand this one for sure
4) Less night life / More family life = raise family there is better
5) Feel out of place if can't speak French
6) Less crowded, like the population densely there, hate Toronto's
7) Lower cost of living
8) Food is not as diverse, crapper ethnic foods

I would move back to Ottawa if job offer same pay/ security. The winters are milder. And the food being better than crappy.

[dibksbgon]

^Each place has its advantages and disadvantages. Not trying to pull OP to Ottawa side. Lord knows I loathe the French here. Calling it gross is kinda petty though. Downtown does indeed become a dead zone if you are into maybe the restaurant/night life thing. Will repeat, we find the lack of ethnic cuisine here a really bummer. On the other hand, if you are older and are thinking about a family, the cost of living is great and there is tonnes of stuff to do. I think probably the pride of Ottawa is all the gorgeous NCC property for use. It is a real highlight.

Things that really do suck about Ottawa are Westboro and the Glebe and any other communities that have stupid little "respect our community development" groups. Ottawa is sooo far behind and in the past when it comes to development. The absolute uproar when 10 story buildings are proposed let alone a few of the new 20 story plus condo buildings. Ottawa's downtown is rather embarassing. To the east you have Lowertown and crappy Sandy Hill. To the immediate west you have Chinatown and Little Italy which honestly are completely full of drug addicts and crime. That said, definitely not afraid to walk anywhere in Ottawa despite the more obvious homelessness, vagrancy, and drug use than Toronto (possibly because Toronto's core is so large). The homes are old and poorly maintained. There is slowly some gentrification going on which is good to see though.


Again not trying to persuade as I love both places, but for me the ultimate decision really does come down to traffic and commuting. In fact that is my big criteria for anything really. You just have to float on over to a few of the threads we have had about GTA commuting to see how long people are driving. Granted if you live in Kanata (boo) here you have a long crappy commute too. But for me it takes me 10 minutes (summer time!) to get into work which is just one exit east of downtown (which yes is a tiny little excuse for a downtown core). It ultimately is the dissuading factor for us driving on the 401, 410, 403 in the GTA when we come down. It is actually shocking more people are not dying because of the absolute recklessness. I always thought Quebec drivers here were bad. It is absolutely nothing compared to there.

[spike1128]

Why do you think Ottawa has milder winters? I thought winter is worse there due to being farther up North?

Obviously the #1 consideration is money/jobs. If you can find a job in the better city (Toronto), you'd take it. If you can't, than living in Ottawa is fine. I mean a real job that can pay for a Toronto lifestyle, not being a secretary and expecting to have a detached house in Rosedale.

No, I said if Ottawa had milder winters like Toronto, then sure why not. I don't miss those -40C days in the winter at all.

[wilsonlam97]

What about Sydney vs Melbourne vs Vancouver vs Toronto vs Ottawa?

[uber_shnitz]

I've found Ottawa's winters to be pretty harsh mostly because there's not many high rise buildings so the wind is brutal lol

That being said, for family life, Ottawa is pretty run of the mill. I'd say it's good because housing is relatively cheap(well cheaper than Toronto anyways), there's lots of greenery, bike paths and parks and it's a relatively safe place compared to Toronto. If you're more a "suburban" type of person, Ottawa would probably be good enough to satisfy your needs if you live in one of the boroughs (aka not "downtown"). Public transit in Ottawa is quite mediocre but driving isn't nearly as bad as the bigger cities such as Toronto or Montreal.

Another plus my friends have found is that Ottawa is between Toronto and Montreal so they can go spend the weekend in either city once in a while. I don't mind the French, but I'm from Quebec so I'm probably biased in that regard :razz: If anything, the uptight government workers annoy me more than what language people speak. Mind you, language-wise it's a good place if you want your kids to be bilingual without having to live in Quebec.

Another consideration though is that while housing isn't too bad, other things are more expensive in Ottawa. For example, traveling is quite expensive if you leave from Ottawa. Ethnic food is overall worse than Toronto or Montreal and it's more expensive too on average however there is a decent enough selection of ethnic supermarkets so you can probably cook some good stuff, just the going out part is subpar. Also since it's close to Quebec, you'll find some Quebec based companies and stores in Ottawa as well as some small influences here and there. It made me feel not totally alien when I moved there for school (from Montreal).

[jedi1648]

What about Sydney vs Melbourne vs Vancouver vs Toronto vs Ottawa?

Please dont hijack my thread which focus on ottawa vs toronto, and u can start your own thread to include other cities if u wish. LOL

[wilsonlam97]

Please dont hijack my thread which focus on ottawa vs toronto, and u can start your own thread to include other cities if u wish. LOL

Oh man!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lcSO69qyKPs/SYNHNNAh6aI/AAAAAAAABQo/Va-QT_BwzpE/s400/left_side_swiper2.jpg

[DrXenon]

Ottawa is a very liveable city that understands the value of public transit. They are putting in a 1.5 billion dollar LRT in the coming 4-5 years, which is going to improve the traffic situation even farther above the gridlock that Toronto is experiencing. The large open spaces that are manicured by the National Capital Commission have no equal in Toronto. You can cycle, x-country ski or hike through Gatineau Park, which is about 20 minutes away on a bad day. Winterlude (kinda sucked this year because of weather, tho). Cottages are still affordable around there, the prices are nothing like Muskoka or the Haliburton Highlands. Houses are slightly more affordable in Ottawa. There are any number of world-class museums in Ottawa that you can take your children to, plus the Agricultural Farm. The latter even has a traffic circle, although it is backwards because the people entering have right of way, but it shows the superior intelligence of Ottawa drivers. Nobody is going to bother you if you have studded tires on the Ontario side in Ottawa for safety. Your kids have a decent chance of growing up bilingual in French if you send them to the right schools. You can get inexpensive imported beer and wine at the Costco in Gatineau. You stand a good chance of getting convenient parking at the Ikea in Nepean. Lots of graduate courses are taught at night by Carleton and UofO, so you can earn your Masters over time. There are no en bloc ethnic monocultural areas like Markham and Brampton in the Ottawa area. You can shoot on a 1000 yard range at Connaught near Ottawa, and there are no idiot politicians making bylaws about ammunition sales. Some of the Quebec girls are absolutely stunning to behold.

[Xiaozhuli]

No offense but Ottawa is a terrible place. It is cold, unbelievably boring, down town completely shuts down after 5pm and on weekends (it's like the walking dead), there's no food selection, people drive at 90km/hr, and people there are prudes.

It's true Toronto has bad traffic but I'll take it over living in Ottawa. Gross!

This is typical... just stereotypes.

Ottawa isn't that cold, Toronto is warmer for sure but I always find it funny when Toronto people treat Ottawa as some lost place far far North. And I'm not even born in Canada... I got used to Ottawa winters quite well.

Boring? Well, your Toronto life can be boring as well if you spend your life commuting. And I've hang out in TO after 5 p.m. on weekdays, it can be pretty dead in some neighbourhoods too. The business district in Ottawa does shut down, but the Market, the Glebe, Little Italy, Chinatown etc. don't.

No food selection? Where did you see that? I can find any food I want here. Give specific examples.

People are prudish though, I give you that. The NIMBY mentality drives me nuts. But again, it's only some people.

So please, you have every right to hate Ottawa, but at least provide valid reasons for that or just state it's a personal choice!



^Each place has its advantages and disadvantages. Not trying to pull OP to Ottawa side. Lord knows I loathe the French here. Calling it gross is kinda petty though. Downtown does indeed become a dead zone if you are into maybe the restaurant/night life thing. Will repeat, we find the lack of ethnic cuisine here a really bummer. On the other hand, if you are older and are thinking about a family, the cost of living is great and there is tonnes of stuff to do. I think probably the pride of Ottawa is all the gorgeous NCC property for use. It is a real highlight.

Things that really do suck about Ottawa are Westboro and the Glebe and any other communities that have stupid little "respect our community development" groups. Ottawa is sooo far behind and in the past when it comes to development. The absolute uproar when 10 story buildings are proposed let alone a few of the new 20 story plus condo buildings. Ottawa's downtown is rather embarassing. To the east you have Lowertown and crappy Sandy Hill. To the immediate west you have Chinatown and Little Italy which honestly are completely full of drug addicts and crime. That said, definitely not afraid to walk anywhere in Ottawa despite the more obvious homelessness, vagrancy, and drug use than Toronto (possibly because Toronto's core is so large). The homes are old and poorly maintained. There is slowly some gentrification going on which is good to see though.


Again not trying to persuade as I love both places, but for me the ultimate decision really does come down to traffic and commuting. In fact that is my big criteria for anything really. You just have to float on over to a few of the threads we have had about GTA commuting to see how long people are driving. Granted if you live in Kanata (boo) here you have a long crappy commute too. But for me it takes me 10 minutes (summer time!) to get into work which is just one exit east of downtown (which yes is a tiny little excuse for a downtown core). It ultimately is the dissuading factor for us driving on the 401, 410, 403 in the GTA when we come down. It is actually shocking more people are not dying because of the absolute recklessness. I always thought Quebec drivers here were bad. It is absolutely nothing compared to there.

Yes, oh yes! These little communities can be a real drag. So narrow-minded sometimes... bunch of rich hippies living their sheltered lives. And I'm a left-wing liberal myself!

[kitbor]

...

Ottawa
...
7) Lower cost of living
...



No, the living cost here is not in anyway lower than in Toronto, especially foods.

[brunes]

Ottawa is certainly a much better place to raise a family. There are many more parks, there are wider streets, there are far more public areas in the city, especially along along the Rideau. The city is also loaded with museums. Also the city has a much nicer feel to it due to ample amounts of foliage everywhere throughout the city, not just in the suburbs. A lot of this owes to the fact that it's the nation's capital and thus the National Capital Commission has a huge federal budget to spend each year on this city that other cities do not get to take advantage of.

The downside to Ottawa is I find it is more spread-out for the number of people living there.. the Downtown is not as dense and thus there is more of a sprawl-ish feel to it.

I don't think cost of living is going to be different enough to even bring up. Travel from Ottawa costs more? Maybe a hundred bucks on an average flight - but honestly you are going to decide where to live based on a semi-annual hundred dollar expense?

[maasai]

Ottawa is much better for family life, better cost of living (cost of housing being the biggest factor), commuting and sense of safety. Although for myself I've never felt unsafe in Toronto, my wife has different views though.

For the winters, although Ottawa is colder, I find Toronto is always overcast in the winter making it a constant season of grey.

Given the choice I would probably move back to Ottawa but we are establishing our roots here now with kids in school and such so this will be our home city for the foreseeable future.

[dibksbgon]

No, the living cost here is not in anyway lower than in Toronto, especially foods.

Cost of living is absolutely lower here. It would be the reason Ottawa is constantly said to be a good place to raise a family. That is the absolute sticking difference between the two. Just compare car insurance rates. Compare housing costs. Ex. I pay less than $1000 a year for my car insurance. Just changing the postal code that jumps to $2000. Housing is the most obvious. I bought a four bedroom detached house (granted not a new build) for $369 000 a year and a half ago. I am 10/15 minutes from downtown. You can find almost diddly for that amount in the suburbs in Toronto.

The cost of food I find to be pretty much the same as the GTA. The difference comes in the variety and quality of ethnic restaurants which Toronto wins hands down.

[setell]

^Each place has its advantages and disadvantages. Not trying to pull OP to Ottawa side. Lord knows I loathe the French here. Calling it gross is kinda petty though.

Things that really do suck about Ottawa are Westboro and the Glebe and any other communities that have stupid little "respect our community development" groups.

Again not trying to persuade as I love both places, but for me the ultimate decision really does come down to traffic and commuting. In fact that is my big criteria for anything really. You just have to float on over to a few of the threads we have had about GTA commuting to see how long people are driving. Granted if you live in Kanata (boo) here you have a long crappy commute too. But for me it takes me 10 minutes (summer time!) to get into work which is just one exit east of downtown (which yes is a tiny little excuse for a downtown core). It ultimately is the dissuading factor for us driving on the 401, 410, 403 in the GTA when we come down. It is actually shocking more people are not dying because of the absolute recklessness. I always thought Quebec drivers here were bad. It is absolutely nothing compared to there.

What's wrong with the French? I love it! I live in a very French area and don't mind it at all. Hell at Metro, the signs are in French first before English so I have to rotate. The cashiers even greet me in French first before switching to English for me since I can’t speak French. I go out to Place D'Orleans and I love hearing all the French. I guess the key is to keep an open mind with them as I want to improve my French so I try to surround myself with more French vs. stay in my English land. I don’t understand the hate towards them. This is exactly why they wanted to separate as the anglophones exhibited so much hate towards them. At the end of the day it is just a language they speak and if they want to speak French then so be it. They can speak gibberish for all I care as long as they are happy with what they are speaking. If you ask me, it’s embarrassing how very few English native speakers can’t speak French fluently but almost everybody I know that’s a native French speaker can speak fluent English without a hint of an accent too. That I find to be embarrassing and wish I had a better grasp of the French language.

Again, what’s wrong with Glebe and Westboro? Love those two areas and if I could afford it I would live there. I guess I’m a preppy hippie then as I love Westboro (more than Glebe) since Richmond Rd is just gorgeous to me. To preserve a community you need people to respect it and that means any community development that may occur.

Personally, I don’t find any of the highways in GTA that bad vs Quebec. Quebec is in a class of their own for both drivers and highway quality. Regarding Ottawa drivers, I hate how during rain/snow/***** day everybody seems to get stupid and forget how to drive on the highway so you’re stuck on the highway for eons. That bugs me more.

[Shaner]

No offense but Ottawa is a terrible place. It is cold, unbelievably boring, down town completely shuts down after 5pm and on weekends (it's like the walking dead), there's no food selection, people drive at 90km/hr, and people there are prudes.

It's true Toronto has bad traffic but I'll take it over living in Ottawa. Gross!

And none of those things matter much if you're talking about raising a family. Ottawa is a better place to raise a family, IMO. Housing is affordable and you can live close to downtown and still own a house, rather than a tiny condo.

If raising a family, I would choose Ottawa. If you're still young and don't have kids yet, then Toronto wins.

[BongoBong]

What's wrong with the French? I love it! I live in a very French area and don't mind it at all. Hell at Metro, the signs are in French first before English so I have to rotate. The cashiers even greet me in French first before switching to English for me since I can’t speak French. I go out to Place D'Orleans and I love hearing all the French. I guess the key is to keep an open mind with them as I want to improve my French so I try to surround myself with more French vs. stay in my English land. I don’t understand the hate towards them. This is exactly why they wanted to separate as the anglophones exhibited so much hate towards them. At the end of the day it is just a language they speak and if they want to speak French then so be it. They can speak gibberish for all I care as long as they are happy with what they are speaking. If you ask me, it’s embarrassing how very few English native speakers can’t speak French fluently but almost everybody I know that’s a native French speaker can speak fluent English without a hint of an accent too. That I find to be embarrassing and wish I had a better grasp of the French language.

Again, what’s wrong with Glebe and Westboro? Love those two areas and if I could afford it I would live there. I guess I’m a preppy hippie then as I love Westboro (more than Glebe) since Richmond Rd is just gorgeous to me. To preserve a community you need people to respect it and that means any community development that may occur.

Personally, I don’t find any of the highways in GTA that bad vs Quebec. Quebec is in a class of their own for both drivers and highway quality. Regarding Ottawa drivers, I hate how during rain/snow/***** day everybody seems to get stupid and forget how to drive on the highway so you’re stuck on the highway for eons. That bugs me more.

It seems a bit contradictory to say everyone should be able to speak the language they want, then go on to say its embarrassing to not speak a certain language. The reason more french people speak english then the other way around is that there is way more incentive for them to do so. Only speaking french limits you way more then only speaking english does, its not a fair comparison.

I don't really get the hate for the glebe and westboro as well. I would love to live in the glebe if I could, and I hate hippies/hipsters. I can agree those community groups can be a bit much and annoying, but the areas themselves are pretty nice and really well located.

[setell]

It seems a bit contradictory to say everyone should be able to speak the language they want, then go on to say its embarrassing to not speak a certain language. The reason more french people speak english then the other way around is that there is way more incentive for them to do so. Only speaking french limits you way more then only speaking english does, its not a fair comparison.


They should have the right to choose what they prefer to speak when they going abouts their daily lives. If they want to speak French then why can’t they? I just find it embarrassing because I took French classes for years and have never truly grasp the language while somebody with an equal amount of English classes can probably speak better English than my French. You have some people that seem to hate people that don’t speak “our” language but a big portion of anglophones can’t speak theirs when Canada is a bilingual country. I was at the park not long ago with my sister and parents. We were speaking tai san and having a good time chatting. This very rude lady took it upon herself to tell us to mind our own business in ENGLISH and glare at us for speaking a different language. So my sister and I both respond in English that we were not talking about her and that it was none of her business what I choose to speak during that specific time and place. We glared back and told her to mind her own business in HER language because it was disrespectful to judge based on us speaking a different language. If I don’t want to not speak English for a while then I won’t but people need to respect that most of the French speakers in Ottawa are pretty much bilingual and know English just as well as anybody posting in this thread. So to hate them because they want to go out shopping/dinner/personal time speaking the language they prefer is out of line to me, especially when that language is one of the official languages of the country. Don’t get me started on the whole “go back to Quebec” argument because that is so offensive on so many levels I can’t fathom anybody would say or think that.

[uber_shnitz]

It seems a bit contradictory to say everyone should be able to speak the language they want, then go on to say its embarrassing to not speak a certain language. The reason more french people speak english then the other way around is that there is way more incentive for them to do so. Only speaking french limits you way more then only speaking english does, its not a fair comparison.

I agree, it's somewhat sad though that the opportunities were divided as they are. Western Canada is formed almost exclusively from Brittish colonists whereas the French ones were basically confined to Quebec so obviously there was language segregation there. Had both communities mingled and moved across Canada together, there would be more incentive to speak both French and English because people around them would speak both.

I mean, it's a vicious circle: you don't speak French ebcause it's not useful because other people don't speak it around you because it's not useful because people don't speak it around you.

[BongoBong]

They should have the right to choose what they prefer to speak when they going abouts their daily lives. If they want to speak French then why can’t they? I just find it embarrassing because I took French classes for years and have never truly grasp the language while somebody with an equal amount of English classes can probably speak better English than my French. You have some people that seem to hate people that don’t speak “our” language but a big portion of anglophones can’t speak theirs when Canada is a bilingual country. I was at the park not long ago with my sister and parents. We were speaking tai san and having a good time chatting. This very rude lady took it upon herself to tell us to mind our own business in ENGLISH and glare at us for speaking a different language. So my sister and I both respond in English that we were not talking about her and that it was none of her business what I choose to speak during that specific time and place. We glared back and told her to mind her own business in HER language because it was disrespectful to judge based on us speaking a different language. If I don’t want to not speak English for a while then I won’t but people need to respect that most of the French speakers in Ottawa are pretty much bilingual and know English just as well as anybody posting in this thread. So to hate them because they want to go out shopping/dinner/personal time speaking the language they prefer is out of line to me, especially when that language is one of the official languages of the country. Don’t get me started on the whole “go back to Quebec” argument because that is so offensive on so many levels I can’t fathom anybody would say or think that.

I think everyone should be able to speak what they want on their own, thats not what I was saying. I was saying I don't agree with your assertion that its embarrassing to not know french in Canada, and your reasoning behind it that lots of french speaking people speak english so why don't english speaking people french.

[discostupid]

Bunch of assorted comments here:

Ottawa is terrible. I lived there for about 19 years. The city has so much potential. It should be a world class city, but despite it being the capital city of a G8 nation, it barely manages to even be a "good" city. Infrastructure is abysmal. Many roads are always in a state of a) disrepair b) obstructive construction.

Transit is (or at least was) terribad. Buses chronically late or early. Basically the bus timetable tells you exactly when the bus will NOT be appearing. O-train the most useless thing ever, unless you live and work on the line (which almost nobody does since the line is far away from major roads).

Culture-wise though Ottawa is a bit "softer" in my opinion. Far less South (read: brown) and oriental asians than Toronto, but more lebanese and somalians. Lots more francophone/Quebecois people. The French thing in my opinion is a matter of taste. I'm fluent, but Quebecois French is perhaps the ugliest-sounding language in the world.

As was mentioned, car insurance is way different. I was paying $1400 in Ottawa, and the lowest rate I could get in Toronto was $4500 (needless to say, I no longer drive).

I'm really surprised brunes said Ottawa has a nicer feel. Toronto IMO is way nicer, although it is still ugly compared to most world class cities. Toronto has lots of parks, more than Ottawa. Ottawa's are bigger I guess, but not really nicer. Ottawa is nice because Gatineau park is quite close, as well as being closer to farms for berry-picking etc.

[Stock R]

If raising a family, I would choose Ottawa. If you're still young and don't have kids yet, then Toronto wins.

+100. QFT. /Thread.

That's basically all it comes down to.

I grew up in Toronto. Wife grew up in Toronto. Both went to Ottawa for university. Couldn't wait to get out and go back to Toronto. We were young.

Fast forward a few years. Got jobs in Ottawa, married, kid on the way. There's no way wife and I would move back to Toronto now.

Ottawa life just suits our family so much better. We like going for walks with our dog and chatting with the neighbours. We like going for bike rides on the weekend and battling the hills in Gatineau Parc. We like taking part in the charity runs/bikes/triathlons that shut down all the city roads. If that sounds boring to you, then probably best to avoid Ottawa.

Our only real complaint about Ottawa is the lack of ethnic foods. The options, quality and pricing is severly lacking compared to Toronto unless you are talking pho and shawarma. We actually prefer to eat at home because we know we're paying more for less if we eat out.

[uber_shnitz]

I agree about the food part. I moved from Montreal to Ottawa for studies and my stomach was severely unhappy the entire time :razz:

[Shaner]

Ottawa life just suits our family so much better. We like going for walks with our dog and chatting with the neighbours. We like going for bike rides on the weekend and battling the hills in Gatineau Parc. We like taking part in the charity runs/bikes/triathlons that shut down all the city roads. If that sounds boring to you, then probably best to avoid Ottawa.

This is why I just shake my head at people who say Toronto offers so much more than Ottawa does. It's simply untrue. Both places offer completely different things. Toronto has more food choices, but Ottawa offers more of other things, like some of the things you mentioned.

There's just as much to do in Ottawa as there is in Toronto, you just have to do different activities. There's not always an upscale, trendy club to go to on a Sunday night, or an Asian AYCE buffet that serves lobster and crab, but there are many other things to do that you just can't do in Toronto.

[Aznsilvrboy]

Pretty sure you can find good places to walk your dog and ride your bikes in Toronto. Almost everything you can do in Ottawa you can do in Toronto, but not the other way around.

[dibksbgon]

^Yea but there are the practical considerations like cost of living, commuting, insurance.

[Stock R]

Pretty sure you can find good places to walk your dog and ride your bikes in Toronto. Almost everything you can do in Ottawa you can do in Toronto, but not the other way around.

Yes. I've done both in both cities. While you can do the same, the quality and experience is completely different. I wouldn't even compare the two cities for things like cycling.

I can name tons of things available in Ottawa that aren't available in Toronto. Just cause you don't know of them or aren't interested in them doesn't mean they don't exist. I've spent enough time in both cities to know what they have to offer. It's a matter of lifestyle and preference, not availability.

[ssainani]

^Yea but there are the practical considerations like cost of living, commuting, insurance.

so basically Ottawa is better if your poor?

I lived in Ottawa for 3 months as part of a work project and hated every moment of it. It felt like I was living in Oakville but unable to get into the city. So if you like living in the suburbs and never leaving ... it's perfect.

Yes - homes are cheaper --- but you also get less for them when you sell. You're forever trapped in Ottawa or moving somewhere else where the homes are also cheap.

The biggest problem with Ottawa is the jobs though - big cities have big jobs and unless youre working for the Feds - the bigger better paying jobs will be in Toronto.

[uber_shnitz]

Well obviously a sizeable population enjoy suburb living considering outside a dozen cities in Canada, everyone else is living in a suburb like town :razz:

[ssainani]

Well obviously a sizeable population enjoy suburb living considering outside a dozen cities in Canada, everyone else is living in a suburb like town :razz:

I think you're mixing up 'enjoy' and 'do it because it's cheaper'

yes - certain suburbs are very nice and exclusive. but there's only one reason most people live in most non exclusive areas.

[uber_shnitz]

I think you're mixing up 'enjoy' and 'do it because it's cheaper'

yes - certain suburbs are very nice and exclusive. but there's only one reason most people live in most non exclusive areas.

Well obviously the fact that it's cheaper outweighs their dislike of those suburb or rural towns otherwise they'd move to another area. Besides, I've known lots of people from small rural towns who are generally happy. Mind you, most of them have never lived in big cities. Just like I've never lived in a huge city outside Canada so I can say I enjoy "the big city" here :razz:

[LostInTruth]

Toronto, hands down. Ottawa is only live on Canada Day weekend.

[Xiaohaibao]

Not everyone likes to party all the time. For people who never go to bars/clubs (ie normal people), Ottawa is much nicer. Much cheaper housing cost, salaries are only a little lower, much less crime, more things to do outdoors after a short drive... Oh did I mention much less crime? How many people got murdered in Toronto already this year? Not sure why people think there are only government jobs in Ottawa. Lots of big companies have major offices there, RIM, IBM, Apple, Cisco, Intel, Lockheed Martin, just to name a few.

[setell]

It's a different lifestyle. I like Ottawa since you feel less rushed and people seem less stuck up. I also don't feel as cramped at times the way I do in GTA. Yes, ethnic food isn't that great here but I can live without it since you can go to GTA for the weekend and eat your hearts desire.

As to comments about housing costs, it actually depends where you live and it's the same for Toronto too. Live in the sought after areas in Ottawa and you'll be paying an arm and leg too like previously mentioned Glebe and Westboro. If you live in the less desirable neighbourhoods (such as the suburbs) then obviously it'll be cheaper just like any other city. Try buying a detach for under $400k in those two areas....you'll get laughed at. I do agree auto insurance is cheaper but other costs are about the same to me.