*BREAKING*Multiple Shootings in Scarborough. As many as 25 shot with two dead

[MaximDude]

What the heck?? I came home and turned on the news and I see there's multiple shootings tonight?? :-0

WTF is going on???! I really hope this isn't the 'year of the gun pt 2'.

EDIT: young girl and young man dead

http://www.newstalk1010.com/News/localnews/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10404492


Police are on scene of what they are calling 'something major' in the Morningside and Lawrence area.

Reports of multiple gunshots fired at 203 Danzig Street before 11 o'clock Monday evening.

There are as many as 11 victims including two children.

Police units from across the city have been called to the scene and EMS units from around the GTA have been dispatched.

Toronto EMS alone have confirmed that 6 ambulances have been dispatched to the scene.

Early reports indicated the victims were all attending a house party in what appears to be a townhouse complex on a quiet residential street in Scarborough.

We'll have more details as they become available.

[LostInTruth]

Shameful. Just pathetic.

[Asmegin]

Morningside and Lawrence.

Not surprising.

[deltone]

I grew up in Scarborough (years ago) and it was a very safe, lovely community. I'm not sure what the heck has happened to Scarborough but it's become a total armpit. I hate even going anywhere near the place anymore. Heartbreaking.

I hope all of these victims are going to be ok. RIP to the poor dead girl and my condolences to her family.

[LostInTruth]

Removed

Keep your senseless comments out of here.

[boywonder416]

no one cares if no innocent people were hurt

[cheapmeister]

Family dispute? Sounds like someone took out a whole family. Either way that is the new bad spot in Scarborough. Rip to the victims.

[deltone]

Keep your senseless comments out of here.

I agree. If he or anyone else doesn't care, feel free to move on and read a different thread. This is horrible (as is that attitude).

[mrjun18]

More than the amount of ppl shot at the Eaton Centre last month. SMH...

[wilsonlam97]

I live in Scarborough and this saddens me to see how GHETTO THESE PEOPLE ARE NOWADAYS.

AT LEAST DO IT IN BRAMPTON SO WE ARE NOT SHAMED (AGAIN!). lol

Now the worth of my home is going to drop dead.

[cheapmeister]

I live in Scarborough and this saddens me to see how GHETTO THESE PEOPLE ARE NOWADAYS.

AT LEAST DO IT IN BRAMPTON SO WE ARE NOT SHAMED (AGAIN!). lol

Now the worth of my home is going to drop dead.


ERRR... keep brampton out of this!

[NEMESIS_2008]

I'm sure Bill Blair will reiterate that Toronto is safe..... Again

[wilsonlam97]

ERRR... keep brampton out of this!

Neverrrrr! :lol:

[Jimboski]

Not that far from where I used to live.. Near PJP..
Oh well good thing I moved.. (Reason why I moved was because of something bad happening to our family..)
RIP to the girl nonetheless, Sucks for the family..

[cheapmeister]

Not that far from where I used to live.. Near PJP..
Oh well good thing I moved.. (Reason why I moved was because of something bad happening to our family..)
RIP to the girl nonetheless, Sucks for the family..

What happened to your family?

[Jimboski]

My house got robbed, I was home with another family member..
Previous to that my car was broken into.. TWICE.
Previous to the car incident another person In the neighborhood also got robbed :facepalm:..
I'm not even trolling too..

[arclite]

Get rid of the ghettos. Get rid of ontario housing. Nothing but trouble.

[cheapmeister]

My house got robbed, I was home with another family member..
Previous to two my car was broken into.. TWICE.

Wow! You didn't get assaulted did you? If that happened to me I'd move too. Did they catch the criminals? How long ago did this happen?

[Jimboski]

Wow! You didn't get assaulted did you? If that happened to me I'd move too. Did they catch the criminals? How long ago did this happen?

Nope.. Just pretended I didn't know English so they didn't bother me, LOL.
Long story short.. I first moved there when the house was BRAND NEW.. We were the first owners to step foot In the house.. Before all the fencing was installed my buddies got robbed PROBABLY and most likely from the same guys.. I wasn't there at the time but It was basically In the neighborhood too just a little left from my house.. There were 3 guys when my buddies got robbed and there was 3 guys this time around too when the house robbery took place..

Catch the criminals? I highly doubt It. Would they call the victims If the criminal Is caught to explain the good news? If they do then no calls so far, Lol.
How long ago.. Ummm 2-3 years ago I would say..

Although they took my 5 gallon water tank half way full of $ that was going to the charity/church! (There were bills In there believe It or not..).

[cheapmeister]

1st pic from the shooting

http://i.thestar.com/images/3d/98/46a37a3f4ce393062ea2108aed6a.jpg

he looks like a victim.

[cheapmeister]

Nope.. Just pretended I didn't know English so they didn't bother me, LOL.
Long story short.. I first moved there when the house was BRAND NEW.. We were the first owners to step foot In the house.. Before all the fencing was installed my buddies got robbed PROBABLY and most likely from the same guys.. I wasn't there at the time but It was basically In the neighborhood too just a little left from my house.. There were 3 guys when my buddies got robbed and there was 3 guys this time around too when the house robbery took place..

Catch the criminals? I highly doubt It. Would they call the victims If the criminal Is caught to explain the good news? If they do then no calls so far, Lol.
How long ago.. Ummm 2-3 years ago I would say..

Although they took my 5 gallon water tank half way full of $ that was going to the charity/church! (There were bills In there believe It or not..).

wow! Good thing you weren't hurt, the other stuff can be replaced. What matters is that nobody got hurt.

[xlc_88]

This makes me sad. Seriously people, if you have a grudge, don't displace it on other innocent people especially children!

[Jimboski]

wow! Good thing you weren't hurt, the other stuff can be replaced. What matters is that nobody got hurt.

Yeah.. Don't really see the reason to beat people you're robbing since you're only there for valuable stuff! I guess I can understand they beat people to try to get the owners or whatever to fess up where the goods are!
But yeah they were terrified.. Heck I'd probably say they were more scared then me.. When they grabbed my arm I felt the nervousness and shakiness of their hands.. Hah.

[wilsonlam97]

Update update! 19 victims as of 12:44.

Source: CP24 on Cable

[wilsonlam97]

Get rid of the ghettos. Get rid of ontario housing. Nothing but trouble.

+1000000000

[Jimboski]

Update update! 19 victims as of 12:44.

Source: CP24 on Cable

Wtf :facepalm:..
This Is more intense then a gang shootout.. But this Is involving kids and families I would imagine..

[cheapmeister]

they say maybe a 2nd person dead.

[wilsonlam97]

1st pic from the shooting

http://i.thestar.com/images/3d/98/46a37a3f4ce393062ea2108aed6a.jpg

he looks like a victim.

That man is being interviewed on CP24 atm.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZtnnytyKuj8/UATueg4pTuI/AAAAAAAADiY/sWosPyGlWWk/s700/IMG_20120717_004701.jpg

According to the reporter on cp24, the people at the scene are uncooperative and unwilling to to do interviews on camera. -sigh-

This area is supposedly surrounded in apartments and government housing.

[_Allan_]

I LIVED 400 meters from Morningside @ Danzig ... I did security at 205/207 Morningside... This doesn't surprise me. Such a terrible situation.

[cheapmeister]

Why are they having a house party on a monday?

[Dina_E]

So was this gang related or family problems?

[wilsonlam97]

I just remembered that a year ago I biked into that area. It seemed pretty bad. The people were rude and I tried to just look at a map for a few moments (10sec+) and the gas station guy yelled at me. The apartments looked bad (contributing to that "rundown" look).

The only help I could find was from a fellow biker. I was lost because my phone died.

Such a bad impression that particular area gave me.

[_Allan_]

Why are they having a house party on a monday?

Most of the people who live in a 700m radius of Danzig@Morningside are on welfare or disability. They don't have much else to do.

[wilsonlam97]

Most of the people who live in a 700m radius of Danzig@Morningside are on welfare or disability. They don't have much else to do.

Yeap. Unlike us on our laptops/desktops/smartphones/tablets lol

[X820]

So it's an annual BBQ party..alright I'm moving to Richmond Hill.

[danman227460]

Story goes it was a block party. A way for kids and other people of the area to gather, mingle and socialize. What makes it worst is that kids were at the party and people were stupid enough to shoot. People have no respect anymore.

[NEMESIS_2008]

Monday night house party = unemployed, and welfare, and run down guv housing.

Valuable police and ems resources tied up due to hoolagins with guns....


Our tax dollars HARD at work!!!!

[wilsonlam97]

So it's an annual BBQ party..alright I'm moving to Richmond Hill.

Too bad it's so expensive!

[cheapmeister]

2 are dead

[MaximDude]

Dang just announced another person confirmed dead now. Male 19. :(

[wilsonlam97]

I wish the shooter would just kill himself/herself.

These people are just idiots that aren't worth breathing our air. The chief Bill Blair claims that this is the most severe case he's seen in his career.

[Jimboski]

That man is being interviewed on CP24 atm.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZtnnytyKuj8/UATueg4pTuI/AAAAAAAADiY/sWosPyGlWWk/s700/IMG_20120717_004701.jpg

According to the reporter on cp24, the people at the scene are uncooperative and unwilling to to do interviews on camera. -sigh-

This area is supposedly surrounded in apartments and government housing.

Damn.. The Jays lost!
RIP to the second victim..

[wilsonlam97]

Damn.. The Jays lost!
RIP to the second victim..

Yeah that sucks x2

[MaximDude]

Bill Blair on CP24 now.

[X820]

Man, city news sucks, they're repeating the same footage over and over again with nothing new.

[xlc_88]

This is too depressing. I'm going to bed and I hope tomorrow morning I don't see anymore confirmed deaths. :(

[cheapmeister]

Man, city news sucks, they're repeating the same footage over and over again with nothing new.

listen here
http://player.rogersradio.ca/cftr/on_air

[boywonder416]

with no new funding for community programs in the neighborhoods, it's only get worst.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1226653--toronto-s-priority-neighbourhoods-money-to-stem-poverty-violent-crime-about-to-dry-up

[NEMESIS_2008]

Bill Blair is partially right when he says Toronto is safe...... Safe ONLY if you are civilized. Aside from some innocent victims getting caught in the crossfire, if you are affiliated with gangs, and drugs, and and guns, you're just another number. The a house party on Monday night says it all. I'm going to bed...... Nothing interesting on tv

[Diafel]

Haha, yeah, if only there were more community programs, this never would have happened :rolleyes:

[Dave98]

The number is people injured, not shot.

[LaserEnvy]

My house got robbed, I was home with another family member..
Previous to that my car was broken into.. TWICE.
Previous to the car incident another person In the neighborhood also got robbed :facepalm:..
I'm not even trolling too..

Who you piss off?

[bman77]

God, I thought Winnipeg was bad

[Jimboski]

Who you piss off?

Someone on RFD probably! jk.
Don't think people rob others in spite of being mad at someone haha!

[AudiDude]

Not surprising.

Well, I for one am definitely NOT surprised.


I live in Scarborough and this saddens me to see how GHETTO THESE PEOPLE ARE NOWADAYS.


Nowadays? Lawrence and Morningside/Lawrence and Orton Park has been that way for 30+ years. There are little pockets of good surrounded by lots of pockets of bad.

[wilsonlam97]

Well, I for one am definitely NOT surprised.



Nowadays? Lawrence and Morningside/Lawrence and Orton Park has been that way for 30+ years. There are little pockets of good surrounded by lots of pockets of bad.

Yeah your right. That neighbourhood over there always sucked.

[wilsonlam97]

Man, city news sucks, they're repeating the same footage over and over again with nothing new.

I feel the same way.

[wilsonlam97]

listen here
http://player.rogersradio.ca/cftr/on_air

I forgot I bought tunein radio pro lol

[NEMESIS_2008]

And in other more important news, the Jays lose to the Yankees 6-3….......

[wilsonlam97]

The conversation on 1010 is much better.

[Dina_E]

So will this incident be the final straw for toronto?

Are we going to finally tackle gangs, community housing and welfare destroying toronto

I think we need to kick out anybody who has a criminal record from community housing and off welfarem

[longitude]

I think we need to kick out anybody who has a criminal record from community housing and off welfarem

+1

Send them all back

[virgilaug]

Thanks for this lovely event african/jamaican community.

[sandikosh]

If it is gang related, I say let them have a shootout. Whoever remains standing is the winner and eventually peace.

[mbg]

Toronto is on its way to becoming a world class city with this kind of ruckus.

All we need now is a terrorist bombing and more variety in our street food carts.

[Spray]

So tired of the thug life image.

[hagbard]

Always been for open immigration...I'm seriously reconsidering that.

[edgedamage]

If it is gang related, I say let them have a shootout. Whoever remains standing is the winner and eventually peace.

And the ones left standing, should be used for live weapons testing by the military.

[longitude]

Always been for open immigration...I'm seriously reconsidering that.

I agree with you.

[wwedx]

+1

Send them all back

+2
Its really sad to see this stuff happening -sigh-

[Canada_7]

Story goes it was a block party. A way for kids and other people of the area to gather, mingle and socialize. What makes it worst is that kids were at the party and people were stupid enough to shoot. People have no respect anymore.

Wasn't there a party that was held in a similar fashion that had someone shot a year or 2 ago? Is it the same place? I have a friend who lives in this area, he said the cops were all over the place.

[Show_boat]

The racial undertone in this thread is absolutely disgusting

[gizmo8]

This year been a very very high amount of gunplay, a lot of incidents dont get reported if there is no shooting involved but cops I know are saying that never seen so many criminals they caught have guns on them.They estimate that the amount of guns they took off the street in 2012 already exceeded 2010 and 2011 totals for the full year....its very easy to buy a gun these days.......

[edgedamage]

Why are they having a house party on a monday?

To celebrate being on welfare, and getting cheap rent.

[edgedamage]

The racial undertone in this thread is absolutely disgusting

The welfare a holes shooting up this city is absolutely discussing. I see what you did there, "damm they are speaking the truth better put a stop to that by using the race card".

[Abel4Life]

The racial undertone in this thread is absolutely disgusting

Ok buddy why even bring that up. Stop trying to cover up the truth with that excuse. Soon enough you'll be calling for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to blame it on Zimmerman.

On another note, the suspects involved need to be thrown into jail and forced to live in the shower-room where the dogs can play fetch with the soap.

[longitude]

The racial undertone in this thread is absolutely disgusting

You're the first one to bring racism into the thread. Thanks.

[neutral]

You're the first one to bring racism into the thread. Thanks.

Bring it up maybe, be one? There's been a few. But this has actually been good behavior so far from the smut that's usually posted here.

[longitude]

Bring it up maybe, be one? There's been a few. But this has actually been good behavior so far from the smut that's usually posted here.

Indeed, some people just can't handle the facts and hide behind PC.

[verano888]

Why are ppl not talking about racial origins of these ppl? Why are ppl afraid to confront the truth?

[edgedamage]

Why are ppl not talking about racial origins of these ppl? Why are ppl afraid to confront the truth?
All I am saying is I live in a low rent building with 90% Russian people. And the only shooting to ever happen here was from a douche who traveled from Scarborough. And the douche was not Russian.

[kingofwale]

Why are ppl not talking about racial origins of these ppl? Why are ppl afraid to confront the truth?

racial origin of the people?? what truth is that people are afraid of facing??

How is that relevant to the story at this point and time?

the fact of matter is... poverty has more to do in this case than race.

[Abel4Life]

Why are ppl not talking about racial origins of these ppl? Why are ppl afraid to confront the truth?

Even though we all know. Mentioning it in the open here will get this thread locked which is why it is avoided.

[edgedamage]

racial origin of the people?? what truth is that people are afraid of facing??

How is that relevant to the story at this point and time?

the fact of matter is... poverty has more to do in this case than race.
Sorry but there are a mix of peoples in ontario housing, and only one race is shooting the place up.

[longitude]

the fact of matter is... poverty has more to do in this case than race.

certain groups have a propensity for gang related activities that end up in shootings.

all shown in stats.

[ashs]

Instead of blaming races, why not constructively find solutions. If you were a member of said race who does not partake in this violence you wouldn't want others stereotyping you, by doing so you also perpetuating them to repeat the behavior. I personally think people don't want to fix these issue rather they feed there ego and claim to be better people than others.

[edgedamage]

Instead of blaming races, why not constructively find solutions. If you were a member of said race who does not partake in this violence you wouldn't want others stereotyping you, by doing so you also perpetuating them to repeat the behavior. I personally think people don't want to fix these issue rather they feed there ego and claim to be better people than others.

Thank you!! This thread was getting way too serious your post really lightened up the mood.

[Abel4Life]

Instead of blaming races, why not constructively find solutions. If you were a member of said race who does not partake in this violence you wouldn't want others stereotyping you, by doing so you also perpetuating them to repeat the behavior. I personally think people don't want to fix these issue rather they feed there ego and claim to be better people than others.

What are some solutions you can bring to the table to address these latest shootings?

[ashs]

Well finding out what happened yesterday is a step. Getting the community to have confidence in the police( which i personally don't have much of) and speaking up. But this is tough, police profiling has led to animosity and feelings of insecurity.

[brian.gerson]

Such a shame that we don't have carry laws so that the innocent people could have defended themselves.

[kingofwale]

Well finding out what happened yesterday is a step. Getting the community to have confidence in the police( which i personally don't have much of) and speaking up. But this is tough, police profiling has led to animosity and feelings of insecurity.

clearly profiling wasn't enough to stop the shooting. ;)

on a completely unrelated note, Caribana is here!!!

[ashs]

If you had no trust in a system, you would deal with issues your way. This needs to change.

[D-Roc]

Such a shame that we don't have carry laws so that the innocent people could have defended themselves.


yes, clearly having more people involved in the shoot out would be the best solution.

[MrDisco]

The racial undertone in this thread is absolutely disgusting

I agree with you, however you need to consider where you are posting. This is the same forum where hard working (minority) students are part of some sort of corrupt system. Can't win either way - it's always them dirty immigrants in the eyes of a core group of RFDers.

[edgedamage]

If you had no trust in a system, you would deal with issues your way. This needs to change.

The reason why nobody talks to the police is because some waste of skin rapper said "stop snitching". And the only people I have ever known who don't trust the police are criminals.

[brian.gerson]

yes, clearly having more people involved in the shoot out would be the best solution.

You seem not to value innocent life very much if you think that people ought to be forced by their government to remain defenceless against thugs like this. I like the odds better if there are trained, armed civilians present at the scene.

[ashs]

The reason why nobody talks to the police is because some waste of skin rapper said "stop snitching". And the only people I have ever known who don't trust the police are criminals.

Alright you keep believing that. I sometimes think people such as you, are happy this happened.

[longitude]

Such a shame that we don't have carry laws so that the innocent people could have defended themselves.

In the HBO documentary "Gun Fight", gun advocates allege that if carrying guns were allowed in the Virginia Tech campus, then the outcome may have been different, as a civilian carrying a gun may have stopped that killer.

However, they also show a test in which several students are packed in a classroom, all wearing masks and vests. Some of these students carry concealed paint guns. In the simulation a masked man suddenly enters the classroom unannounced, armed with a paint gun and starts shooting the students randomly.

The result is interesting: the students carrying the concealed paint guns react and end up shooting some of their fellow students accidentally, some can't even draw their guns.

So this shows the danger of weapons in general.




.

[edgedamage]

You seem not to value innocent life very much if you think that people ought to be forced by their government to remain defenceless against thugs like this. I like the odds better if there are trained, armed civilians present at the scene.
The only way a civilian should be allowed to carry a gun is they must be able to shoot a life like thug target from 500 yards away.

[Xpwmata]

I grew up in Scarborough (years ago) and it was a very safe, lovely community. I'm not sure what the heck has happened to Scarborough but it's become a total armpit. I hate even going anywhere near the place anymore. Heartbreaking.

I hope all of these victims are going to be ok. RIP to the poor dead girl and my condolences to her family.

LOL, what a complete overreaction.

[kingofwale]

lol, watching CP24. the organizer of the BBQ blamed the police. Saying they are (police) only there to 'bother' them.

:)

[edgedamage]

Alright you keep believing that. I sometimes think people such as you, are happy this happened.

Awww have you been in trouble with the law and now hate all police your problem not mine. And I am for douche gangsters killing each other just keep contributing members of society out of the path of gunfire.

[longitude]

Was this BBQ happening on a backyard of a home, or in the open streetn?

[iEyeCaptain]

I don't care about the race of the participants of the block party.

What I am upset about is that now they're whining that police didn't come fast enough. Meanwhile, when they don't need the police to come save them, they're all "F the POH-LICE", "WE DON'T NEED NO POH-LICE ROUND 'ERE"...

[edgedamage]

I don't care about the race of the participants of the block party.

What I am upset about is that now they're whining that police didn't come fast enough. Meanwhile, when they don't need the police to come save them, they're all "F the POH-LICE", "WE DON'T NEED NO POH-LICE ROUND 'ERE"...

Shhh don't let ashs hear you say that. It will say you are happy this happened.

[chickenbones]

A friend's store was robbed 3 times by a particular race. You bet your butt everytime a young man or a group of young men from this particular race shows up near his store he would lock the doors.

You would do the same thing. You wouldn't be talking about "constructive solutions" and no stereotyping. The only solution he had was to lock the doors after 9pm and don't like any young thug looking men from that particular race into the store.


Instead of blaming races, why not constructively find solutions. If you were a member of said race who does not partake in this violence you wouldn't want others stereotyping you, by doing so you also perpetuating them to repeat the behavior. I personally think people don't want to fix these issue rather they feed there ego and claim to be better people than others.

[Doodies]

Always been for open immigration...I'm seriously reconsidering that.


I agree with you.

There is no sending them back, I bet most of these people were born in Canada. This is pretty much the end result, nothing can be done at this point we just have to except that this behaviour is going to continue.

[edgedamage]

A friend's store was robbed 3 times by a particular race. You bet your butt everytime a young man or a group of young men from this particular race shows up near his store he would lock the doors.

You would do the same thing. You wouldn't be talking about "constructive solutions" and no stereotyping. The only solution he had was to lock the doors after 9pm and don't like any young thug looking men from that particular race into the store.

The only reason they are robbing the store is because they don't trust the police!!

[ashs]

I don't care about the race of the participants of the block party.

What I am upset about is that now they're whining that police didn't come fast enough. Meanwhile, when they don't need the police to come save them, they're all "F the POH-LICE", "WE DON'T NEED NO POH-LICE ROUND 'ERE"...


There are central trust issues that need to be addressed.

[longitude]

There is no sending them back, I bet most of these people were born in Canada. This is pretty much the end result, nothing can be done at this point we just have to except that this behaviour is going to continue.

If one is a permanent or temporary resident and is caught committing a crime, then you have just earned yourself a one way plane ticket.

[ashs]

A friend's store was robbed 3 times by a particular race. You bet your butt everytime a young man or a group of young men from this particular race shows up near his store he would lock the doors.

You would do the same thing. You wouldn't be talking about "constructive solutions" and no stereotyping. The only solution he had was to lock the doors after 9pm and don't like any young thug looking men from that particular race into the store.


Fair enough bu have you ever been profiled? It sucks, you lose complete faith in the system. And that is the problem here, you treat someone like ***** because of preconceived notions but in tern you perpetuate further acts.

[brian.gerson]

So this shows the danger of weapons in general.

I suspect the folks in that HBO documentary had no training whatsoever.

Is there a risk of a blue-on-blue incident? Sure. But that happens whether it is the police, who qualify once a year and usually are terrible shots, or trained civilians who practice every two weeks. It is no reason not to shoot back, because the alternative is that the active shooter is unopposed and injures 19 people, killing 2. The media in the States is full of incidents where people have successfully defended themselves and lives have been saved. Just because you would faint or run away is no reason to prevent people with courage from attempting to save their neighbours.

[kingofwale]

There are central trust issues that need to be addressed.

true. it's not the police, but those who carried guns to block BBQ we must place our trust in.

[edgedamage]

I don't care about the race of the participants of the block party.

What I am upset about is that now they're whining that police didn't come fast enough. Meanwhile, when they don't need the police to come save them, they're all "F the POH-LICE", "WE DON'T NEED NO POH-LICE ROUND 'ERE"...


Fair enough bu have you ever been profiled? It sucks, you lose complete faith in the system. And that is the problem here, you treat someone like ***** because of preconceived notions but in tern you perpetuate further acts.
If you dress like a thug you get treated like one. Guess what sunshine I used to dress like a biker and know what, I always got hassled by the cops.

[D-Roc]

You seem not to value innocent life very much if you think that people ought to be forced by their government to remain defenceless against thugs like this. I like the odds better if there are trained, armed civilians present at the scene.


Carrying a weapon is not a deterent to gun violence. This is not the wild west and just because some one is armed does not mean they are trained properly. Even if they are, it does not mean innocent lives (that yes I care about) would be saved beacuse everyone in the community would be safe. Quite the opposite.

[Superboot]

good 'ol scarberia

[kingofwale]

If you dress like a thug you get treated like one. Guess what sunshine I used to dress like a biker and know what, I always got hassled by the cops.

I bet you that this guy will NEVER get stopped because of his race.
http://www.wardrobefail.com/wp-content/uploads/65/gangstafx7.jpg






... might get stopped numerous time for other characteristics tho. ;)

[brian.gerson]

The only way a civilian should be allowed to carry a gun is they must be able to shoot a life like thug target from 500 yards away.

I agree with the general point that civilians should have to take a course and prove competence to be able to carry. But I think you have never shot a handgun if you think anyone can hit an IDPA target from 500 yards away! A very skilled person could do it from 50 yards under stress. For most of us, 20 yards is the limit under stress. A typical engagement distance is 7 yards.

[ashs]

I suspect the folks in that HBO documentary had no training whatsoever.

Is there a risk of a blue-on-blue incident? Sure. But that happens whether it is the police, who qualify once a year and usually are terrible shots, or trained civilians who practice every two weeks. It is no reason not to shoot back, because the alternative is that the active shooter is unopposed and injures 19 people, killing 2. The media in the States is full of incidents where people have successfully defended themselves and lives have been saved. Just because you would faint or run away is no reason to prevent people with courage from attempting to save their neighbours.



I'm torn on this.as a Sikh I believe in the right to protect others( baptized carry blades) but I don't know if carrying a gun would decrease the violence.

[D-Roc]

I don't care about the race of the participants of the block party.

What I am upset about is that now they're whining that police didn't come fast enough. Meanwhile, when they don't need the police to come save them, they're all "F the POH-LICE", "WE DON'T NEED NO POH-LICE ROUND 'ERE"...


Exactly!! Where are those RFD members who say we don't need the police?? Come on.....Say it. The Police were not needed and were just harrassing the innocent because of their skin colour.

[Abel4Life]

A friend's store was robbed 3 times by a particular race. You bet your butt everytime a young man or a group of young men from this particular race shows up near his store he would lock the doors.

You would do the same thing. You wouldn't be talking about "constructive solutions" and no stereotyping. The only solution he had was to lock the doors after 9pm and don't like any young thug looking men from that particular race into the store.

The people here that cry about 'stereotyping' and 'racism' would probably leave the door open and welcome a robbery just so they don't feel like they're offending anyone. *sarcasm*

[Show_boat]

Ok buddy why even bring that up. Stop trying to cover up the truth with that excuse. Soon enough you'll be calling for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to blame it on Zimmerman.


Case and point

You're the first one to bring racism into the thread. Thanks.
Its called reading between the lines but obviously that flew over your head



To celebrate being on welfare, and getting cheap rent.Another idiotic post you know area where this happened is not government/metro housing right?

[brian.gerson]

I'm torn on this.as a Sikh I believe in the right to protect others( baptized carry blades) but I don't know if carrying a gun would decrease the violence.

In the States, detailed studies, for example by Lott, have shown that greater gun ownership is correlated with lower crime. The rapists tend to think twice about attacking a woman who might be armed.

[manmanny]

Exactly!! Where are those RFD members who say we don't need the police?? Come on.....Say it. The Police were not needed and were just harrassing the innocent because of their skin colour.
So every block party need a police supervision? Why can't people have a party and fun without getting involved in shooting?
Something wrong with some people.

[LaserEnvy]

Exactly!! Where are those RFD members who say we don't need the police?? Come on.....Say it. The Police were not needed and were just harrassing the innocent because of their skin colour.

Who actually believes society doesn't need Police? :facepalm:

[olssy]

no one cares if no innocent people were hurt


House party.. hundreds of people..
nobody cares.


I live in Scarborough and this saddens me to see how GHETTO THESE PEOPLE ARE NOWADAYS.

AT LEAST DO IT IN BRAMPTON SO WE ARE NOT SHAMED (AGAIN!). lol

Now the worth of my home is going to drop dead.


Get rid of the ghettos. Get rid of ontario housing. Nothing but trouble.


Monday night house party = unemployed, and welfare, and run down guv housing.

Valuable police and ems resources tied up due to hoolagins with guns....


Our tax dollars HARD at work!!!!


Damn.. The Jays lost!
RIP to the second victim..


Yeah that sucks x2


Bill Blair is partially right when he says Toronto is safe...... Safe ONLY if you are civilized. Aside from some innocent victims getting caught in the crossfire, if you are affiliated with gangs, and drugs, and and guns, you're just another number. The a house party on Monday night says it all. I'm going to bed...... Nothing interesting on tv


And in other more important news, the Jays lose to the Yankees 6-3….......


So will this incident be the final straw for toronto?

Are we going to finally tackle gangs, community housing and welfare destroying toronto

I think we need to kick out anybody who has a criminal record from community housing and off welfarem


+1

Send them all back


Thanks for this lovely event african/jamaican community.


If it is gang related, I say let them have a shootout. Whoever remains standing is the winner and eventually peace.


Always been for open immigration...I'm seriously reconsidering that.


And the ones left standing, should be used for live weapons testing by the military.


I agree with you.


+2
Its really sad to see this stuff happening -sigh-


To celebrate being on welfare, and getting cheap rent.


The welfare a holes shooting up this city is absolutely discussing. I see what you did there, "damm they are speaking the truth better put a stop to that by using the race card".


Ok buddy why even bring that up. Stop trying to cover up the truth with that excuse. Soon enough you'll be calling for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to blame it on Zimmerman.

On another note, the suspects involved need to be thrown into jail and forced to live in the shower-room where the dogs can play fetch with the soap.


All I am saying is I live in a low rent building with 90% Russian people. And the only shooting to ever happen here was from a douche who traveled from Scarborough. And the douche was not Russian.


Sorry but there are a mix of peoples in ontario housing, and only one race is shooting the place up.


certain groups have a propensity for gang related activities that end up in shootings.

all shown in stats.


clearly profiling wasn't enough to stop the shooting. ;)

on a completely unrelated note, Caribana is here!!!


The reason why nobody talks to the police is because some waste of skin rapper said "stop snitching". And the only people I have ever known who don't trust the police are criminals.


I don't care about the race of the participants of the block party.

What I am upset about is that now they're whining that police didn't come fast enough. Meanwhile, when they don't need the police to come save them, they're all "F the POH-LICE", "WE DON'T NEED NO POH-LICE ROUND 'ERE"...


A friend's store was robbed 3 times by a particular race. You bet your butt everytime a young man or a group of young men from this particular race shows up near his store he would lock the doors.

You would do the same thing. You wouldn't be talking about "constructive solutions" and no stereotyping. The only solution he had was to lock the doors after 9pm and don't like any young thug looking men from that particular race into the store.


Exactly!! Where are those RFD members who say we don't need the police?? Come on.....Say it. The Police were not needed and were just harrassing the innocent because of their skin colour.

Congratulations on being an insensitive bunch of asses. When people get killed and injured it is not the time to blurt out sociopathic views on immigration, race and social housing, start another thread for that.

[D-Roc]

Who actually believes society doesn't need Police? :facepalm:

You must have missed the numerous threads in the past that many RFD members saying the Police are useless, etc. :facepalm:

[D-Roc]

Congratulations on being an insensitive bunch of asses. When people get killed and injured it is not the time to blurt out sociopathic views on immigration, race and social housing, start another thread for that.


I think you are the one being a little sensitive. There have already been numerous posts saying how bad this is (not the worse in NA thought as Chief Blair would have you believe). Does it really need to be said over and over? We all agree. It is a bad situation. The thread is evolving to a different discussion.

[D-Roc]

In the States, detailed studies, for example by Lott, have shown that greater gun ownership is correlated with lower crime. The rapists tend to think twice about attacking a woman who might be armed.

I would not exactly call the States where gun carrying (concealed) is allowed, safer. Quite the opposite.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/13/10-most-violent-states_n_848317.html#s263574&title=8_Oklahoma

[ashs]

You must have missed the numerous threads in the past that many RFD members saying the Police are useless, etc. :facepalm:

Nobody said they are useless, were talking about community members not trusting cops.

[hagbard]

Congratulations on being an insensitive bunch of asses. When people get killed and injured it is not the time to blurt out sociopathic views on immigration, race and social housing, start another thread for that.

Refusing to look at the elephant in the room doesn't make it go away.

[BinaryJay]

I grew up between 1980 and around 2000 at Kennedy and Eglinton. When I was little, the area was safe and quiet. Some public housing eventually went up, things got a little sketchier but it was still fine. By the time I had finished highschool a halfway house was put up and I'm just saying it's a contributing reason not THE reason, it was starting to become an "armpit" (as colourfully noted above). Our house was broken into. A classmate of mine was murdered at the subway station. I was robbed at knifepoint a couple of times, once in broad daylight on a main road. Generally, people were up to no good all over the place seemingly trying to recreate the popular culture representation of the ghetto life.

At any rate, I moved away a long time ago and don't exactly miss the area. The demographics have completely changed from when I was a kid, and I'm not talking about the visible change in race makeup - just socioeconomically. While this event is definitely the biggest holy crap what is the world coming to moment for the area yet, it really isn't anything new and this kind of stuff happens in pockets all over the GTA and places in Brampton, Pickering etc. are just as bad on average I think. I still know a lot of people that have stayed in the area that are great upstanding people, it's a matter of the 1% making the place feel unsafe.

The part of the story that really gets me is that free booze was apparently advertised, who was paying for it I have no idea... but seriously, you put a party with no security open on a street and tell everyone there's free booze and you're going to get at least a couple of insane lowlifes showing up. That has got to be like honey to bears.

[JAC]

I'm torn on this.as a Sikh I believe in the right to protect others( baptized carry blades) but I don't know if carrying a gun would decrease the violence.

I was given to understand that kirpans were strictly ceremonial and not to be used for violence, which is why you are permitted to carry them in situations where weapons are not normally allowed. Could you kindly clarify the circumstances under which the use of force is permitted or expected, and whether school children are expected to follow the same guidelines?

[longitude]

refusing to look at the elephant in the room doesn't make it go away.

lol!!!

[longitude]

http://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/wokxt/breaking_news_11_people_shot_at_house/

Random portraits of the situation gleaned from twitter.

Apparently, it was this guy's party, as he says here. He'd been planning this party since July 7th. The pictures indicate that a 'hennesey party' is exactly what it sounds like: a party w/ lots of hennesey liquor provided.

This guy apparently anticipated that problems might happen at the party. This girl, too. This guy too. So this could be the result of a pretty well-known beef.

This person was shot. As was this person. This person was also shot -- twice. This person was also shot, according to this tweet. This may be her in recovery, though I can't be sure. It is, in any case, someone recovering from a gunshot wound.

This woman was shot and apparently killed. Her and her boyfriend were celebrating a 4 month anniversary. I'm confident enough to say that she is the Shyanne who many locals on twitter are talking about, based on comparing pictures from her account to those posted by others. She was apparently well-connected. One tweeter said that "This is Shyanne's people we're talking about. Now it's gonna be war." Here is a memorial collage that is making the rounds. Here is another memorial picture tweeted by someone.

Apparently Shyanne went out in this guy's arms. Apparently the 1 year old who was shot was also that guy's nephew.

This guy says that bullets grazed his head, and that weren't even aiming. Implies more than one shooter, I guess.

This guy is implying that there will be more violence in the future. The shooters "touched the wrong people". "This isn't over". More of the same sentiment from this girl. And this woman, who says "there is gonna be war". We should expect an "outrageous reaction", because there will be a "heavy domino effect". As another guy says, "Mandem aren't gonna let this slide easy." ('Mandem' = slang term for a collection of thugs.)

I fear for this community's future.

Apparently the little girl who was shot was a guy named Ledda's daughter. Ledda is apparently someone you don't mess with. Scottie Pimpin also thinks that this situation will be 'big' because of the bloodlines involved.

For an idea of who constitutes one of the victim's crew, see this video. The entire rap is superimposed over a blue bandana, which I can only assume symbolizes a crips chapter. Note the lyrics: "livin a hard life, growin up on my own / no mother no father i gotta do it all alone / but if i got a problem niggas got the 44 / she got a really fat ***** with a long nose". This video is frequently tweeted with an accompanying "#GWAY" tag, which must refer to "Galloway". Galloway is the name of a nearby road which hosts a number of public housing projects.

More local music. "got the 44 extra kick / extended ? clip / i suggest you sit / or my dogs'll sick". Later on he says "you know who I rep / earlybirds is the set", where "set" is common terminology for chapter of a gang. Note that the guy whose video I linked above's twitter name was "early3irds", and this guy, who also retweeted the above video, takes the screen name "EARLY!!!". This music video is also by the same crew and also showcases the same neighborhood where this incident went down. Here is another video by the same crew; note the cripwalk at 0:43.

Here is a crappy lo-res photo of the investigation area. Here is a much better hi-res of the investigation area in daylight.

edit note: I'm throwing in more stuff as I find it.









SCUM

[Abel4Life]

Revive Project Marvel!

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/12/13/country-wide-project-marvel-police-raid-involving-900-officers-spured-by-probe-of-two-toronto-street-gangs-bill-blair/

Why can't we do this again? Should be annual effort except at random times. Police need to break into some of these houses with an approved warrant and continue to seize weapons, arrest people, and punish those guilty of crime.

[ashs]

JAC Dude that's another topic altogether, that said the blades baptized students carry are not functional blades and are just 2 inch decorative blade, a pen would do more damage. In our history though we were martialized to fend off the Muslim Mughals who were attacking the region and it became a requirement for all baptized Sikhs to carry swords 24-7 to defend others.

[D-Roc]

This is not going to be a good summer for that community based on the above post.

[ashs]

This is not going to be a good summer for that community based on the above post.

All communities have issues.

[LaserEnvy]

I'd stay out of that area in the coming months. There's probably going to be revenge killings.

[longitude]

pictures of the event.

jesus.

http://instagram.com/p/NKi0WKu2Dz/

http://instagram.com/p/NKct0iO2Pm/

http://instagram.com/p/NKdog9O2AS/

[tighty whities]

I'd stay out of that area in the coming months. There's probably going to be revenge killings.

+1. In public gathering places too, like the Eaton Centre/ Yonge & Dundas area.

[LaserEnvy]

EDIT: dont wanna piss off the mods :p

[BinaryJay]

+1. In public gathering places too, like the Eaton Centre/ Yonge & Dundas area.

That is pretty far removed from where this stuff is going down. This stuff tends to exist in a microcosm. I don't think there are going to be any large scale public events again as a result of this.

[manmanny]

No wonder a shooting happened
Not correct. There was some some even at Park just (woodbine Park) across the Beaches few days back. I think it was Africana Music fest and/or Jazz fest. It was crowded like caribana event. Nothing happened there. Nothing at least printed in papers.

[trixstar]

Not correct. There was some some even at Park just (woodbine Park) across the Beaches few days back. I think it was Africana Music fest and/or Jazz fest.
It was crowded like caribana event. Nothing happened there. Nothing at least printed in papers.

not a house party tho

[manmanny]

not a house party tho But lots of people...I mean thousands of and mostly from same community.
House party is your excuse. There was no party at Eaton centre but it did happen.
The point was photo with lots of people from same community implied as reason it happened.

[edgedamage]

Sorry lost interest in this thread, I got crusing USA working in mame. Playing classic arcade games make more sense than worrying about useless thugs.

[setell]

My condolences to the ones that didn't make it. :(

[manmanny]

Sorry lost interest in this thread, I got crusing USA working in mame. Playing classic arcade games make more sense than worrying about useless thugs.
logout then.

[Muney]

How could this have happened?? The guns must have been registered which prevents them from being used against another human! How can a shooting happen when we still have the restricted firearms registry? How were these urban youth aloud to carry the guns if they weren't going to a range?

[longitude]

logout then.

and clear cache....... :D

[iEyeCaptain]

Congratulations on being an insensitive bunch of asses. When people get killed and injured it is not the time to blurt out sociopathic views on immigration, race and social housing, start another thread for that.

Did this thread suddenly turn into a book of condolences?

Where should I sign, your Majesty?

I find it offensive that you'd imply that by debating other issues surrounding this incident that I don't feel horrible for those involved and those who lost loved ones.

[4flava]

http://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/wokxt/breaking_news_11_people_shot_at_house/
........
Random portraits of the situation gleaned from twitter.




I bet the cops are having a field day gathering up info on the people commenting.

[tighty whities]

That is pretty far removed from where this stuff is going down. This stuff tends to exist in a microcosm. I don't think there are going to be any large scale public events again as a result of this.

An intended large scale public event wasn't what I was getting at.

The recent Eaton Centre shooting was also a revenge attack.. these gangsters are known to frequent the Eaton Centre and the food court to do their transactions. All it takes it one guy to spot/look for another and take him out.. which could lead to innocent bystanders getting hurt or killed

[longitude]

I bet the cops are having a field day gathering up info on the people commenting.

Cops are known not to be fast with computers.

Someone should send them the link................ :D

[retteas]

i wish they would give these lowlife ghetto animals the death penalty, shooting 19 people is insane, but the best we can do is lock up these animals behind bars for life, these thugs need to be caged for life.

[manmanny]

Just heard it...Mayor Ford arrived there. Now dont go off-T and on Mayor Ford as he is not being discussed here. This is just info only.

[freeloader1969]

The racial undertone in this thread is absolutely disgusting

WTF do you expect when most of the shootings are always happening in the black community? If I kept hearing about white drunk drivers killing innocent people, I'd start to hate white people. Conditioning breeds the racial undertone that you find disgusting.

[longitude]

Just heard it...Mayor Ford arrived there. Now dont go off-T and on Mayor Ford as he is not being discussed here. This is just info only.

Late for the BBQ? No ribs left?


:D

[ashs]

WTF do you expect when most of the shootings are always happening in the black community? If I kept hearing about white drunk drivers killing innocent people, I'd start to hate white people. Conditioning breeds the racial undertone that you find disgusting.

The racial undertone perpetuate more that behaviour, do people go on about how most pedaphiles are white, they don't.

[LaserEnvy]

Late for the BBQ? No ribs left?


:D

He's eating the leftover chicken wings that were strewn onto the street amidst the chaos.

[arclite]

i wish they would give these lowlife ghetto animals the death penalty, shooting 19 people is insane, but the best we can do is lock up these animals behind bars for life, these thugs need to be caged for life.

I agree, but our "justice" system protects the criminals. I got mugged many years ago. I was around 12 at the time and these thugs were waiting for me to leave the store. They followed me and stopped my rear bike tire with their bare hands (clearly they have been doing this for some time). 3 of them were about the same age as me, 2 of them were about 18. The older ones kicked me in the face and they ended up beating me up pretty badly and stole my bike. I called the cops but they never found them. I could have avoided it by biking alongside the traffic, but I decided to go through the neighbourhood. BIG MISTAKE.

I ended up going to the hospital. Went to school the next day a little late. This black kid/thug who normally bullies me said I deserved it. Said I shouldn't 'mess wit *****s'.

[LaserEnvy]

The racial undertone perpetuate more that behaviour, do people go on about how most pedaphiles are white, they don't.

So now other people are responsible for their behaviour? :facepalm:

[ji2o0k]

I bet the cops are having a field day gathering up info on the people commenting.

Cops are known not to be fast with computers.

Someone should send them the link................ :DShoot, this is bang on.....someone send this info to the police!

[freeloader1969]

The racial undertone perpetuate more that behaviour, do people go on about how most pedaphiles are white, they don't.

As a matter of fact, yes, people in the non-white community are always pointing out that most pedophiles are white.

[ashs]

So now other people are responsible for their behaviour? :facepalm:

If you portray a people a certain way, over and over, then they will live up to that image. Black people hate when this stuff happens not just because it's wrong but because they all get type casted by white people and that's not fair.

[ashs]

As a matter of fact, yes, people in the non-white community are always pointing out that most pedophiles are white.

Does the media blow it up to the point of fearing white people, no they don't. They don't even mention the high correlation.

[johnnyepy]

Does the media blow it up to the point of fearing white people, no they don't. They don't even mention the high correlation.

you must be black or have blacks in your family

[manmanny]

If you portray a people a certain way, over and over, then they will live up to that image. Black people hate when this stuff happens not just because it's wrong but because they all get type casting by white people and that's not fair.

True its not fair. But the scary thing is many of the victims (more than 50%) are from same community and even the people involved in shooting.

[tsxnation]

As a matter of fact, yes, people in the non-white community are always pointing out that most pedophiles are white.

This is done all the time. Black comedians joke about it to no end.

[LaserEnvy]

If you portray a people a certain way, over and over, then they will live up to that image. Black people hate when this stuff happens not just because it's wrong but because they all get type casting by white people and that's not fair.

lol should I take your word on that?

[Superboot]

If you portray a people a certain way, over and over, then they will live up to that image. Black people hate when this stuff happens not just because it's wrong but because they all get type casting by white people and that's not fair.

But that is reality, you cant just cover up and defend every incident that occurs from a certain race and blame it on a few bad apples. You can only keep using that argumment, and its been beaten to death.

[ashs]

you must be black or have blacks in your family

I'm a punjabi high school teacher who teaches a lot of black kids who shouldn't have to feel ashamed of who they are because of the actions of idiots and the sterotyping of the masses.

[ashs]

lol should I take your word on that?

There is a scientific study called the Pygmalion effect, some governments deliberately portray specific communities a certain way just to get them to behave in those ways, I know because my parents country India does it to my people.

[mjl_toronto]

If you portray a people a certain way, over and over, then they will live up to that image. Black people hate when this stuff happens not just because it's wrong but because they all get type casted by white people and that's not fair.
Can you tell me who began portraying these guys as thugs? As far as I know, it wasn't the rest of the non-black people that forced this image on them.
Same thing as bikers, they portray the image on themselves.
Stop blaming the rest of society for stereotyping. We didn't start it, and we aren't the one's perpetuating it. For you to think otherwise is ignorant.

FWIW, I'm glad many of the NBA stars are moving on from the thug look and moving on to geek chic. I've already seen it have a positive influence on a small community that I volunteer in. Some teens really do think it's cool to be a geek now.

[4flava]

Guys, let's keep this thread clean. I think a mod is ready to close this thread down any moment. !

[iEyeCaptain]

There is a scientific study called the Pygmalion effect, some governments deliberately portray specific communities a certain way just to get them to behave in those ways, I know because my parents country India does it to my people.

There is a stereotype out there that Asians are supposed to be good at math.

Didn't help me in any way!

[ashs]

But that is reality, you cant just cover up and defend every incident that occurs from a certain race and blame it on a few bad apples. You can only keep using that argumment, and its been beaten to death.

I agree but blaming a community over and over doesn't solve the problem either, it further alienates people and solves nothing.

[retteas]

For all those who don't want these dirty thugs in our great city and are tired of these ghetto ****** with no brains shooting up the place, call the city and call the police non-emergency number and get them to act and tell them directly your concerns, shooting 19 people, we can't tolerate this anymore.

police non-emergency number: 416-808-2222
city of toronto: 311

http://www.toronto.ca/city_directory/
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/

[ashs]

There is a stereotype out there that Asians are supposed to be good at math.

Didn't help me in any way!

Lol

[LaserEnvy]

There is a scientific study called the Pygmalion effect, some governments deliberately portray specific communities a certain way just to get them to behave in those ways, I know because my parents country India does it to my people.

So now the government is to blame because they portray the black community as violent thugs?

[mjl_toronto]

I'm a punjabi high school teacher who teaches a lot of black kids who shouldn't have to feel ashamed of who they are because of the actions of idiots and the sterotyping of the masses.

I think the stereotype is 'thug life' and not black kids. Stop apologizing for the thugs.
I've worked with black high school kids who started off trying to look like thugs because that's what their friends pressured them to be.
But they smartened up, realizing it wasn't helping themselves.
Unfortunately, it's the not-so-smart kids that continue this idiotic stereotyping of themselves 'cuz they love the thug life. Just look at some of the Twitter profiles of the victims.

[Superboot]

For all those who don't want these dirty thugs in our great city and are tired of these ghetto ****** with no brains shooting up the place, call the city and call the police non-emergency number and get them to act and tell them directly your concerns, shooting 19 people, we can't tolerate this anymore.

police non-emergency number: 416-808-2222
city of toronto: 311

http://www.toronto.ca/city_directory/
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/

And say what? "Hey, can you guys work harder and stop this from happening?" This usse has been ongoing forever and there are already so many outreach programs out there to stop this, but for every 1 thug you convert to a normal citizen you get 2 more created on the streets...

[trixstar]

so now the government is to blame because they portray the black community as violent thugs?

loll

[retteas]

And say what? "Hey, can you guys work harder and stop this from happening?" This usse has been ongoing forever and there are already so many outreach programs out there to stop this, but for every 1 thug you convert to a normal citizen you get 2 more created on the streets...

the best thing to do would be to deport these animals back to thier native jungle, i bet they wouldn't feel so tough if they were back in the ultimate ghetto. these animals come here to toronto and don't know how good they have it and they can't even behave.

[ashs]

I think the stereotype is 'thug life' and not black kids. Stop apologizing for the thugs.
I've worked with black high school kids who started off trying to look like thugs because that's what their friends pressured them to be.
But they smartened up, realizing it wasn't helping themselves.
Unfortunately, it's the not-so-smart kids that continue this idiotic stereotyping of themselves 'cuz they love the thug life. Just look at some of the Twitter profiles of the victims.

My beef is the racial sterotyping,

[ashs]

So now the government is to blame because they portray the black community as violent thugs?

I'm not even gonna bother.

[LaserEnvy]

I'm not even gonna bother.

That is much appreciated.

[D-Roc]

All communities have issues.

Well du'uh. Never said they didn't.

[ktan09]

Regardless of race, if you carry a gun and discharge it at a public BBQ, then you are a thug and we should throw the book at you. Every race has thugs, just some have more cases than other statistically.

[Abel4Life]

Add the death penalty for these thugs responsible.

[mjl_toronto]

My beef is the racial sterotyping,
This isn't about racial stereotyping. Thug isn't a race.
I hate caucasian/asian/indian/latino/alien thugs as much as any other thug out there.

[ashs]

This isn't about racial stereotyping. Thug isn't a race.
I hate caucasian/asian/indian/latino/alien thugs as much as any other thug out there.

The media glorifies thug culture, thugs are suposidly the epitome of the rebel and being bad.

[kingofwale]

My beef is the racial sterotyping,

again, this has nothing to do with racial stereotyping. now is there? Stop making excuses.

It's a simple thug on thug crime without fear of any other people dying.

As you as their teacher, I can see how people can blame others and take no responsibility of their own action.

[Mantic]

My cousin lives @ Mccowan and Lawrence, from what I see every time i visit him (3-4 times a month) its mostly Punjabi people and African American people, I'm not sure if there is tension between the two races since most brown people seem to be moving out North-East (Ajax) for example.

[retteas]

And say what? "Hey, can you guys work harder and stop this from happening?" This usse has been ongoing forever and there are already so many outreach programs out there to stop this, but for every 1 thug you convert to a normal citizen you get 2 more created on the streets...

still better to call, at least the police and the city will have more pressure to act, first it was the eaton center (a crowded mall), now it is 19 people. don't wait until you get shot or witness a shooting in your area to act cause it might be too late.

[starkiller2010]

Here is a thought: What does one have to do to prove that a stereotype is true?

[iEyeCaptain]

The media glorifies thug culture, thugs are suposidly the epitome of the rebel and being bad.

I say let's let Natural Selection do it's work to weed out the idiots.

[brian.gerson]

Thank goodness Canada's strict gun laws prevent these events. Bring back the long gun registry.

[D-Roc]

Thank goodness Canada's strict gun laws prevent these events. Bring back the long gun registry.

Lets keep politics out of this.

[ashs]

Thank goodness Canada's strict gun laws prevent these events. Bring back the long gun registry.

Blair was just saying how we shouldn't of scrapped the long gun registry. Long guns are rarely used and people who register ther guns don't do this stuff.

[brian.gerson]

people who register ther guns don't do this stuff.

So, you mean to say that the laws just single out law abiding gun owners, who are less likely to commit any kind of crime than the general population, and complicate their lives with vaguely written, probably unconstitutional regulation? And the restricted/prohibited registry did absolutely nothing to prevent this? I don't understand, Alan Rock and Wendy Cukier told me the exact opposite and they would not lie, would they?

[chickenbones]

When I was there, there were fights regularly over turf between Tamils and Black people. There's a lot of tension between the two groups. They don't mix and they all want to be thugs in the area.


My cousin lives @ Mccowan and Lawrence, from what I see every time i visit him (3-4 times a month) its mostly Punjabi people and African American people, I'm not sure if there is tension between the two races since most brown people seem to be moving out North-East (Ajax) for example.

[ashs]

So, you mean to say that the laws just single out law abiding gun owners, who are less likely to commit any kind of crime than the general population, and complicate their lives with vaguely written, probably unconstitutional regulation? And the restricted/prohibited registry did absolutely nothing to prevent this? I don't understand, Alan Rock and Wendy Cukier told me the exact opposite and they would not lie, would they?

Lol

[olssy]

the best thing to do would be to deport these animals back to thier native jungle, i bet they wouldn't feel so tough if they were back in the ultimate ghetto. these animals come here to toronto and don't know how good they have it and they can't even behave.

I'ld like to deport you to an island with only other animals of your kind, film you all blaming each other for your own incompetence and then make a reality TV show about it. I'ld call it "Archie Bunkers Island"


My beef is the racial sterotyping,
So is mine and fortunately most educated people have an issue with it also. As long as we never shut up in the face of intolerance and ignorance the world will get better.


This isn't about racial stereotyping. Thug isn't a race.
I hate caucasian/asian/indian/latino/alien thugs as much as any other thug out there.
So true that thug isn't a race so why are people talking about Jamaicans and certain types of communities?


As a matter of fact, yes, people in the non-white community are always pointing out that most pedophiles are white.
First time I've heard that, I know serial killers are almost always white males but never heard that about pedophiles. Are you sure it isn't like some communities saying that homosexuality doesn't exist in their culture?


True its not fair. But the scary thing is many of the victims (more than 50%) are from same community and even the people involved in shooting.
Over 50% of shooting victims are shot by someone they know so it's not that surprising.


This is done all the time. Black comedians joke about it to no end.
There is a difference in going to see a comedian and watching things on the news and reading about them in newspapers day after day.


lol should I take your word on that?
That was a reply to ashs stating that the vast majority of blacks in that community are not only saddened by the shootings but also how it will reinforce negative stereotypes about their community. To LaserEnvy, don't take his word on it, read about the efforts of the community leaders and you will see they not only have to deal with the actual shootings but also about the negative image associated with their community that gets broadcast across Canada. How many times would it make national news when a community does positive things like projects that reduces criminality? Good news seldom sells but bad news that can create a bit of fear is sure to sell.


But that is reality, you cant just cover up and defend every incident that occurs from a certain race and blame it on a few bad apples. You can only keep using that argumment, and its been beaten to death.
It's not covering it up, it's trying to find the real causes so real solutions can be applied. If you limit yourself to saying it is because they are a bunch of thugs that should be deported or executed then the problems will only get worse. If you try and understand why a group of humans lack any hope of a better life and commit atrocities like this then you are on the road to finding solutions to the problem.


Can you tell me who began portraying these guys as thugs? As far as I know, it wasn't the rest of the non-black people that forced this image on them.
Same thing as bikers, they portray the image on themselves.
Stop blaming the rest of society for stereotyping. We didn't start it, and we aren't the one's perpetuating it. For you to think otherwise is ignorant.

FWIW, I'm glad many of the NBA stars are moving on from the thug look and moving on to geek chic. I've already seen it have a positive influence on a small community that I volunteer in. Some teens really do think it's cool to be a geek now.
The music industry started portraying hip-hop artists as thugs when they saw it sold more records as they got more free media coverage because of the shock value. Hip-hop started out as an alternative to gang life in the Bronx, an area that police had stopped patrolling in the 70s and was extremely poor. When hip-hop started getting popular, the record companies quickly realized that the more the artists shocked with images of being 'real thugs' the more albums they sold. This encouraged youths to take on a thug image to get signed on labels. With most of the top hip-hop artists promoting the thug life the kids listening to it thought that was what was cool. Add to this the massive arrival of crack cocaine in poor areas and we get what we have now. Don't even get me started on how it was the CIA that facilitated the importation of crack into poor black communities to help fund the Contras in Nicaragua to overthrow a democratically elected government.

All of this does not excuse any criminal behavior and those that do criminal acts should be punished by our laws.

[supermetroid]

Hip-hop started in the Bronx. Get your facts straight.

Also I wouldnt be talking to cops either if I saw a gang related shooting. Its not about trust, or the stupid "stop snitching", its about my own safety. Cops have no way of protecting members of the community if they come forward as witnesses. Either the gangs silence the witness, or the thugs will get light sentences and in a few years come back for revenge.

[bullionaire]

Toronto is on its way to becoming a world class city with this kind of ruckus.

All we need now is a terrorist bombing and more variety in our street food carts.

lol

[manmanny]

Toronto is on its way to becoming a world class city with this kind of ruckus.

All we need now is a terrorist bombing and more variety in our street food carts.

Nice trolling friend.


lol

and its not funny.

[longitude]

Nice trolling friend.




???

[BinaryJay]

http://i.thestar.com/images/d4/4d/8ae02cb44e429ad52b62888c000c.jpg
A woman sits on the curb wearing handcuffs after a shooting near Morningside Ave. and Lawrence Ave. E. late Monday, July 17, 2012.

Nice outfit.

[manmanny]

???
So you support his idiotic comment? "All we need now is a terrorist bombing"

[dec12]

clearly profiling wasn't enough to stop the shooting. ;)

on a completely unrelated note, Caribana is here!!!

I guess they jumped the gun. According to Scotia's website, the official launch date is today at 1 pm.

[manmanny]

I guess they jumped the gun. According to Scotia's website, the official launch date is today at 1 pm.

Lousy timing/luck...
Now confused to attend the event or not. Most probably will go as there will be huge police presence.

[olssy]

again, this has nothing to do with racial stereotyping. now is there? Stop making excuses.

It's a simple thug on thug crime without fear of any other people dying.

As you as their teacher, I can see how people can blame others and take no responsibility of their own action.

He never said he was their teacher. He never said people shouldn't pay for their crimes. He brought up very valid points that need to be taken into consideration if we as a country want this to stop. Deportation is never going to happen so forget it, me and millions like me will not let that happen. The Harper government is going to try and have stiffer penalties for violent crime all while reducing the budget on prevention, this has already been tried and does not work, costs too much and never reduces the crime rate. Texas learnt this the hard way and have now changed policies to invest in prevention and rehabilitation programs.

So that leaves us with actually trying to have a dialog with the leaders of these communities to find out what they need. Some solutions are simple, more social programs to help get kids off the streets, more involvement from peers that have succeeded, give the kids positive role models. Invest in drug rehab programs in those communities as poverty breads drug addiction and an addiction comes before all else for an individual.

To those that complain social programs cost tax payers money, it costs a lot less than ignoring the problem as we can see now.

[Dina_E]

caribana is gonna be a massive revenge scenario.

[manmanny]

caribana is gonna be a massive revenge scenario. I hope not.

[ktan09]

Lousy timing/luck...
Now confused to attend the event or not. Most probably will go as there will be huge police presence.

There was a large police presence last year as well, and someone still ended up shooting.

[longitude]

So you support his idiotic comment? "All we need now is a terrorist bombing"

click (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/sarcasm?q=sarcasm)

[kingofwale]

http://i.thestar.com/images/d4/4d/8ae02cb44e429ad52b62888c000c.jpg
A woman sits on the curb wearing handcuffs after a shooting near Morningside Ave. and Lawrence Ave. E. late Monday, July 17, 2012.

Nice outfit.

I hope I don't get called a racist or someone who stereotypes on this.


but i think that's a Cheetah

[Xpwmata]

He never said he was their teacher. He never said people shouldn't pay for their crimes. He brought up very valid points that need to be taken into consideration if we as a country want this to stop. Deportation is never going to happen so forget it, me and millions like me will not let that happen. The Harper government is going to try and have stiffer penalties for violent crime all while reducing the budget on prevention, this has already been tried and does not work, costs too much and never reduces the crime rate. Texas learnt this the hard way and have now changed policies to invest in prevention and rehabilitation programs.

So that leaves us with actually trying to have a dialog with the leaders of these communities to find out what they need. Some solutions are simple, more social programs to help get kids off the streets, more involvement from peers that have succeeded, give the kids positive role models. Invest in drug rehab programs in those communities as poverty breads drug addiction and an addiction comes before all else for an individual.

To those that complain social programs cost tax payers money, it costs a lot less than ignoring the problem as we can see now.


Who are the leaders of these communities?

[sylpherware]

I hope I don't get called a racist or someone who stereotypes on this.


but i think that's a Cheetah

What a racist... thinking that all spotted animals are the same :facepalm:
It's clearly a Leopard.

[ashs]

caribana is gonna be a massive revenge scenario.

Seems like people want this stuff to occur.

[LaserEnvy]

What a racist... thinking that all spotted animals are the same :facepalm:
It's clearly a Leopard.

Looks like a black girl to me.

[Simaahoy]

I was just in that area a two days ago, obviously not nice part but this shooting is not the norm in Toronto...

[Xpwmata]

Seems like people want this stuff to occur.

why would people want shootings to occur? what is the motivation for this comment, teacher?

[dec12]

why would people want shootings to occur? what is the motivation for this comment, teacher?

Shorten the waiting list for a spot in public housings?

[ssainani]

i am always intrigued by how and why people behaved the way that they do in online, and it's appalling to witness what some people feel is acceptable behavior.

just another reminder that everyone on this forum is a sociopath -- proudly racists online, but cowards in person.

[deltone]

LOL, what a complete overreaction.

How so? Why would I not hate going to a place which I remember as being safe and wonderfuland is now dangerous and ugly. I'd rather "over react" than be unsafe. Thankfully I don't live in Scarborough, (or the GTA) anymore and so it's a rare occasion when I find myself down there because I hate going there. How you found my one comment within this very large thread the one you chose to comment on is rather odd and I think you overreacted to my comment. :facepalm:

[D-Roc]

why would people want shootings to occur? what is the motivation for this comment, teacher?

Agreed. No one is asking for it to happpen. We know the trend. It will happen.

[manmanny]

Just heard the news and Chief Blair telling everyone to help with any videos/ cell pictures videos to help solve this case.
Its in contrast of what police did (making people delete pics/videos) when the "allegedly" beat down ad man on basketball court.
Ad they never say "Suspect" anymore. Its always person of Interest...

[Mantic]

When I was there, there were fights regularly over turf between Tamils and Black people. There's a lot of tension between the two groups. They don't mix and they all want to be thugs in the area.

Hopefully this "Thug" war comes to an end before most innocent lives are taken.

[LaserEnvy]

LOL, what a complete overreaction.

Believe me, that is not an overreaction. I'm guessing you've never been in that area. It is a dump. They have to assign police officers to just stand inside the mcdonalds after school hours because it gets packed wall to wall with thugs and troublemakers.

[mjl_toronto]

The music industry started portraying hip-hop artists as thugs when they saw it sold more records as they got more free media coverage because of the shock value. Hip-hop started out as an alternative to gang life in the Bronx, an area that police had stopped patrolling in the 70s and was extremely poor. When hip-hop started getting popular, the record companies quickly realized that the more the artists shocked with images of being 'real thugs' the more albums they sold. This encouraged youths to take on a thug image to get signed on labels. With most of the top hip-hop artists promoting the thug life the kids listening to it thought that was what was cool. Add to this the massive arrival of crack cocaine in poor areas and we get what we have now. Don't even get me started on how it was the CIA that facilitated the importation of crack into poor black communities to help fund the Contras in Nicaragua to overthrow a democratically elected government.

All of this does not excuse any criminal behavior and those that do criminal acts should be punished by our laws.

What I meant by 'began' is who initiated this image of a thug? Not who perpetuated it.
AFAIK, they portrayed this image on themselves before hip-hop popularized it. Just a random thought of mine, but I think it may have evolved from the Black Panther Party.
The music (entertainment) industry didn't force the image on them. They just capitalized on it 'cuz they want to make money. I agree, you can blame them for perpetuating and glamourizing the thug life but not for creating it.

Oh, and how dare you blame hip-hop artists for starting thug life. It's the thugs that ruined hip-hop, not the other way. Keep hip-hop pure!

[Xpwmata]

How so? Why would I not hate going to a place which I remember as being safe and wonderfuland is now dangerous and ugly. I'd rather "over react" than be unsafe. Thankfully I don't live in Scarborough, (or the GTA) anymore and so it's a rare occasion when I find myself down there because I hate going there. How you found my one comment within this very large thread the one you chose to comment on is rather odd and I think you overreacted to my comment. :facepalm:

How I found your comment? I read it? Is this not the purpose of online forums?

Do you have any idea how large 'Scarborough' is? Congratulations on buying into the media headlines by stereotyping an entire borough of Toronto based on incidents in isolated pockets known for being riddled with welfare recipients and community housing.

Remind me again how you are different than racists who stereotype an entire ethnicity based on the actions of a few?

Yes indeed, thankfully you don't live in the GTA, there is enough ignorance here already.

[Xpwmata]

Believe me, that is not an overreaction. I'm guessing you've never been in that area. It is a dump. They have to assign police officers to just stand inside the mcdonalds after school hours because it gets packed wall to wall with thugs and troublemakers.


Lawrence and Morningside and other areas may be classified as dumps, sure. I wouldn't live there. But to say Scarborough in its entirety is a dump and an arm-pit is ridiculous

[bullionaire]

Believe me, that is not an overreaction. I'm guessing you've never been in that area. It is a dump. They have to assign police officers to just stand inside the mcdonalds after school hours because it gets packed wall to wall with thugs and troublemakers.

That area is further proof that we need more multiculturalism and ethnic enclaves.

[dudebro]

i am always intrigued by how and why people behaved the way that they do in online, and it's appalling to witness what some people feel is acceptable behavior.

just another reminder that everyone on this forum is a sociopath -- proudly racists online, but cowards in person.

i'm pretty appalled myself. i'm only here for the deals section but come here occasionally when events occur around the GTA and between the eaton centre post and this one i am pretty shocked. i have never heard such comments in real life, so for people to come together and essentially circle jerk over their racism pertaining to an event like this just shows their level of maturity and lack of education in my humble opinion. i just hope that people don't conclude that all white people are this ignorant because i certainly am not.

anyway, back on topic this event is truly sickening. a 14 year old child is dead over a senseless act of violence. people like this shooter and the eaton centre shooter seriously need to locked up forever. people like that should not be roaming the streets.

[retteas]

have you guys seen Hood 2 Hood: The Blockumentary it shows thugs and lowlifes in thier native habitat, and they love being trash and idolize living the gangster life. the movie is available free of charge and can be purchased/downloaded at TPB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hood_2_Hood:_The_Blockumentary

it is an eye-opening experience (previews are available for free on youtube)

[junot111]

one of the people dead (the 20 year old male) is a close friend of my friends in Whitby... can't imagine what they're feeling like right now..

[Xpwmata]

i'm pretty appalled myself. i'm only here for the deals section but come here occasionally when events occur around the GTA and between the eaton centre post and this one i am pretty shocked. i have never heard such comments in real life, so for people to come together and essentially circle jerk over their racism pertaining to an event like this just shows their level of maturity and lack of education in my humble opinion. i just hope that people don't conclude that all white people are this ignorant because i certainly am not.

anyway, back on topic this event is truly sickening. a 14 year old child is dead over a senseless act of violence. people like this shooter and the eaton centre shooter seriously need to locked up forever. people like that should not be roaming the streets.

? And you know it was whites who made those posts how? Could they have been Indian? Maybe...Chinese? ....Maybe...Arab?...Maybe

What an appalling comment.

[dudebro]

one of the people dead (the 20 year old male) is a close friend of my friends in Whitby... can't imagine what they're feeling like right now..
wow. condolences to your friends..

[deltone]

How I found your comment? I read it? Is this not the purpose of online forums?

Do you have any idea how large 'Scarborough' is? Congratulations on buying into the media headlines by stereotyping an entire borough of Toronto based on incidents in isolated pockets known for being riddled with welfare recipients and community housing.

Remind me again how you are different than racists who stereotype an entire ethnicity based on the actions of a few?

Yes indeed, thankfully you don't live in the GTA, there is enough ignorance here already.

Wow, it would seem that you not only have a problem with reading comprehension, you also have a serious issue with making judgments against others, while acting like you despise such things with your pretense of disliking stereotyping. I didn't post ONE thing that can in any way be a sign of racism or stereotyping yet you have just labelled me as such. YOU are the one who has a problem, I don't.

First of all, I was saying that I wondered how in this very large thread with all sorts of opinions and thoughts, you found my post such an over reaction. I wasn't wondering how you found the sentence, for crying out loud. Seriously, you really can't be serious, can you?

Secondly, again, I posted nothing of a racist nature in my post and as far as I'm concerned, your post to me is a personal attack. As far as whether I know how large Scarborugh is, let me tell you this much. I lived in Scarborough for many years, and probably long before you were even a twinkle in your father's eye, so yes, I am very aware of how large Scarborough is. I knew Scarborough VERY well, and there isn't an area that I never spent time in so your your assumption about what I know about Scarborough is flawed at best.

Thirdly, I can assure you that I'm not the only person who remembers Scarborough from back in the good old days and are appalled at the ugly turn it's taken. Almost everyone I know from Scarborough got the heck out and never looked back because it isn't even a reasonable facsimle of what it once was.

[D-Roc]

? And you know it was whites who made those posts how? Could they have been Indian? Maybe...Chinese? ....Maybe...Arab?...Maybe

What an appalling comment.

I would consider it more of irony...lol

[Xpwmata]

Wow, it would seem that you not only have a problem with reading comprehension, you also have a serious issue with making judgments against others, while acting like you despise such things with your pretense of disliking stereotyping. I didn't post ONE thing that can in any way be a sign of racism or stereotyping yet you have just labelled me as such. YOU are the one who has a problem, I don't.

First of all, I was saying that I wondered how in this very large thread with all sorts of opinions and thoughts, you found my post such an over reaction. I wasn't wondering how you found the sentence, for crying out loud. Seriously, you really can't be serious, can you?

Secondly, again, I posted nothing of a racist nature in my post and as far as I'm concerned, your post to me is a personal attack. As far as whether I know how large Scarborugh is, let me tell you this much. I lived in Scarborough for many years, and probably long before you were even a twinkle in your father's eye, so yes, I am very aware of how large Scarborough is. I knew Scarborough VERY well, and there isn't an area that I never spent time in so your your assumption about what I know about Scarborough is flawed at best.

Thirdly, I can assure you that I'm not the only person who remembers Scarborough from back in the good old days and are appalled at the ugly turn it's taken. Almost everyone I know from Scarborough got the heck out and never looked back because it isn't even a reasonable facsimle of what it once was.

You stereotyped an entire community and you continue to do so...and then you deny it.
Oh..really? Scarborough was safer 40 years ago with a fraction of the population and density? No kidding...what a revelation...Im sure it was even safer 200 years ago when it was all forest.

Did I say you were a racist? No. Not sure why you would even say that... Are you educated? Are you competent?

For someone (self-admittedly) so old, you are very immature, Im done with you.

[LaserEnvy]

*******************

lol you guys are too much :D

[junot111]

lol you guys are too much :D

wth is so funny? What is the joke here....

[transitguy1]

damn.

It seems New Delhi, Beirut, Colombo and Islamabad are much more safer than Toronto, Canada (biggest city of "G8" country).

Thank you Govt of Canada for the lax ancient laws in place. Hopefully you can get your head out of the gutter someday. Before its too late.

[deltone]

You stereotyped an entire community and you continue to do so...and then you deny it.
Oh..really? Scarborough was safer 40 years ago with a fraction of the population and density? No kidding...what a revelation...Im sure it was even safer 200 years ago when it was all forest.

Did I say you were a racist? No. Not sure why you would even say that... Are you educated? Are you competent?



For someone (self-admittedly) so old, you are very immature, Im done with you.

Let me refresh your very short memory. Remind me again how you are different than racists who stereotype an entire ethnicity based on the actions of a few?
I think it's pretty clear what you were saying. Again, you have decided to personally attack me which leads me to beleive that perhaps you and I have met on this forum at an earlier time but perhaps the name has changed? Your anger and insistance on insulting me would suggest that perhaps I may have "peed in your cornflakes" in another thread but as I said, I think the name has changed. Anyhow I'm sure this isn't the last time we will clash as methinks you have an agenda.

[manmanny]

damn.

It seems New Delhi, Beirut, Colombo and Islamabad are much more safer than Toronto, Canada (biggest city of "G8" country).

Thank you Govt of Canada for the lax ancient laws in place. Hopefully you can get your head out of the gutter someday. Before its too late.

lolwut? Now that overreaction or just messing with RFD.

[serbianbelle]

So many people come to enjoy company of their friends and neighbors and it ends in trauma for everyone. Ends in death and children forever scarred. Does it matter if it's Scarborough. Toronto used to be so proud whenever we compared it with United States. Not any longer. We seem to be aiming for a gun capital of Canada. No pride in that. My heart goes out to everyone wounded or not. It was an unimaginable ordeal to experience.

[Xpwmata]

Let me refresh your very short memory. Remind me again how you are different than racists who stereotype an entire ethnicity based on the actions of a few?
I think it's pretty clear what you were saying. Again, you have decided to personally attack me which leads me to beleive that perhaps you and I have met on this forum at an earlier time but perhaps the name has changed? Your anger and insistance on insulting me would suggest that perhaps I may have "peed in your cornflakes" in another thread but as I said, I think the name has changed. Anyhow I'm sure this isn't the last time we will clash as methinks you have an agenda.


I think its time to get off this here internet machine and get back to your bridge game, pops.

Seems you've annoyed so many people on this forum you suffer paranoia from people seeking retribution for your past transgressions. LOL.

[Muney]

Thank you Govt of Canada for the lax ancient laws in place. Hopefully you can get your head out of the gutter someday. Before its too late.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4fodt2MC31rvbve6o1_400.jpg

And what lax laws are you referring to exactly? I can't wait to hear this.

[dudebro]

So many people come to enjoy company of their friends and neighbors and it ends in trauma for everyone. Ends in death and children forever scarred. Does it matter if it's Scarborough. Toronto used to be so proud whenever we compared it with United States. Not any longer. We seem to be aiming for a gun capital of Canada. No pride in that. My heart goes out to everyone wounded or not. It was an unimaginable ordeal to experience.

couldn't have said it better myself.

[Superboot]

This thread closed yet? Posts are getting deleted left and right LOL #inbeforeclose

[retteas]

I agree, but our "justice" system protects the criminals. I got mugged many years ago. I was around 12 at the time and these thugs were waiting for me to leave the store. They followed me and stopped my rear bike tire with their bare hands (clearly they have been doing this for some time). 3 of them were about the same age as me, 2 of them were about 18. The older ones kicked me in the face and they ended up beating me up pretty badly and stole my bike. I called the cops but they never found them. I could have avoided it by biking alongside the traffic, but I decided to go through the neighbourhood. BIG MISTAKE. I ended up going to the hospital. Went to school the next day a little late. This black kid/thug who normally bullies me said I deserved it. Said I shouldn't 'mess wit *****s'.

18 year-olds beating up a 12 year-olds? savages will be savages, i am not surprised at all.

[deltone]

At the end of the day, it's sad and tragic that these two young lives have been snuffed out and for what? Also tragic that so many innocents were hurt and from the sounds of things, it would seem that it's not over and that there will be retaliation (if we are to beleive the tweets, or whatever they were).

There will always be bickering within these threads, regardless of the subject and that is something that will never change.

[kingofwale]

damn.

It seems New Delhi, Beirut, Colombo and Islamabad are much more safer than Toronto, Canada (biggest city of "G8" country).

Thank you Govt of Canada for the lax ancient laws in place. Hopefully you can get your head out of the gutter someday. Before its too late.

Statistics cried for you.

nobody stopped you from leaving, btw.

[X820]

Anyone know what's the motive behind the shooting?

[koleso]

Anyone know what's the motive behind the shooting?

Same as probably all those in red here http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/1134314--gta-homicide-map-2012

I wonder how those homicides classified as shooting in the above link relate to yesterda's shooting? Hmmmmm

[sprung]

right now you can watch the Toronto Police media briefing on the shooting live via YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VWMOqnPY3A&feature=youtu.be)

[koleso]

By crowd-sourcing various tweets, the Reddit user BitchslappedByLogic put together a post by pulling together various statements made by witnesses. The post also did well to add context by linking to tweets that contained information such as who was involved and who was shot.

By linking to certain tweets from various members of the community, it would seem as though more violence might result going forward.

Quoting from the post:

This guy is implying that there will be more violence in the future. The shooters “touched the wrong people“. “This isn’t over“. More of the same sentiment from this girl. And this woman, who says “there is gonna be war”. We should expect an “outrageous reaction“, because there will be a “heavy domino effect“.

The post cannot be confirmed by Postmedia News. For those unfamiliar with Reddit, the social media website allows registered users to submit content, in the form of either a link or a text ‘self’ post

That whole neighbourhood should be raided.

[kingofwale]

the guy who got shot and killed was from Ajax... pretty far to go to a block party.

somebody send the reddit link to the police

[Superboot]

right now you can watch the Toronto Police media briefing on the shooting live via YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VWMOqnPY3A&feature=youtu.be)

Like they are going to say anything useful...Its going to be the same stuff we have all already read on articles online.

[Dina_E]

the guy who got shot and killed was from Ajax... pretty far to go to a block party.

somebody send the reddit link to the police

you cant take the ghetto out of some people no matter where you place them.

[transitguy1]

Statistics cried for you.

nobody stopped you from leaving, btw.

Ah yes, kick out the rest. Keep the criminals.

anyone that dares to point out the wrongs, is told to "leave the country".

Okay then, carry on the shootings, stabbings and whatnot. Why should we care right?

If we don't like it, we should just leave. What a great logic.

Don't worry I will leave, once I mooch off of all the benefits and entitlements. :cheesygri

[serbianbelle]

Please stop with racist innuendos. The people who were enjoying the barbecue, a most innocent of gatherings ended up with dead and injured. Does it need racial labeling? All these people who can't see beyond skin colour or race are frightening all by themselves. One never knows what can set them off! Hide under a rock.

[neutral]

Please stop with racist innuendos. The people who were enjoying the barbecue, a most innocent of gatherings ended up with dead and injured. Does it need racial labeling? All these people who can't see beyond skin colour or race are frightening all by themselves. One never knows what can set them off! Hide under a rock.

Yep, these people are just as sick as the thugs they claim to be angry about. I'm not sure they are angry at all. they love the opportunity to post their racist rants. One day it's 'thugs' the next day it's China, the next day it's Brampton and on and on with these nutjobs.

[transitguy1]

Please stop with racist innuendos. The people who were enjoying the barbecue, a most innocent of gatherings ended up with dead and injured. Does it need racial labeling? All these people who can't see beyond skin colour or race are frightening all by themselves. One never knows what can set them off! Hide under a rock.

these things don't happen in woodbridge, maple, vaughan.

Why do you think that is? Plus, it is more or less the same type of communities involved each and every time.....they show it on TV all the time.

It is obvious, everyone knows that in their head, even if you can't say it on the forums.

what comes to mind naturally when you hear the words stabbing and shooting?? The same thing, every single time.

The criminals come out with minimum time, they know the law is soft. Prisons overcrowded.

Death penalty too scary for Canadians.

[neutral]

these things don't happen in woodbridge, maple, vaughan.

Why do you think that is? Plus, it is more or less the same type of communities involved each and every time.....they show it on TV all the time.

It is obvious, everyone knows that in their head, even if you can't say it on the forums.

what comes to mind naturally when you hear the words stabbing and shooting?? The same thing, every single time.

The criminals come out with minimum time, they know the law is soft. Prisons overcrowded.

Death penalty too scary for Canadians.
Some people think that way because they aren't bright. That's hardly proof of being right.

[Dina_E]

Why is the PC news calling this a BBQ/community event????

it was advertised as a hennessy party on twitter and facebook

and the 14 year old a girl who died is not some innocent little girl. she was the gf of a 18 year old gang banger.

[navigator416]

Please stop with racist innuendos. The people who were enjoying the barbecue, a most innocent of gatherings ended up with dead and injured. Does it need racial labeling? All these people who can't see beyond skin colour or race are frightening all by themselves. One never knows what can set them off! Hide under a rock.

I have lived in scarborough my entire life. I agree its not the skin color, its the culture - that *****, douchey "culture" comes in all skin colors, I promise you that. I dont know how a block party @ morningside and lawrence sounds like a remotely good idea, even if the idea itself is to bring the community together. Shall we organize a block party next week at jane and finch? A block party is NEVER a good idea. NEVER. Why? Because some people have kids that they are not equipped to raise and churn out ***** douchey kids that our kids will have to be exposed to and then they are set loose on the public to fend for themselves as the ***** people they are.

[flashy_mcflash]

Why is the PC news calling this a BBQ/community event????

it was advertised as a hennessy party on twitter and facebook

and the 14 year old a girl who died is not some innocent little girl. she was the gf of a 18 year old gang banger.

Can you write this in bigger font pls.

[wilsonlam97]

That whole neighbourhood should be raided.

+1

[Dina_E]

+1

+2 we need to remove the handcuff off the cops and let them do work without being painted as racists

[Superboot]

Why is the PC news calling this a BBQ/community event????

it was advertised as a hennessy party on twitter and facebook

and the 14 year old a girl who died is not some innocent little girl. she was the gf of a 18 year old gang banger.

This for real?

[manmanny]

Ah yes, kick out the rest. Keep the criminals.

anyone that dares to point out the wrongs, is told to "leave the country".

Okay then, carry on the shootings, stabbings and whatnot. Why should we care right?

If we don't like it, we should just leave. What a great logic.

Don't worry I will leave, once I mooch off of all the benefits and entitlements. :cheesygri

Here is the truth.


these things don't happen in woodbridge, maple, vaughan.

Why do you think that is? Plus, it is more or less the same type of communities involved each and every time.....they show it on TV all the time.

It is obvious, everyone knows that in their head, even if you can't say it on the forums.

what comes to mind naturally when you hear the words stabbing and shooting?? The same thing, every single time.

The criminals come out with minimum time, they know the law is soft. Prisons overcrowded.

Death penalty too scary for Canadians.

Talking about the city above the law?
Why do you think its called as city above the law?

[wilsonlam97]

I have lived in scarborough my entire life. I agree its not the skin color, its the culture - that *****, douchey "culture" comes in all skin colors, I promise you that. I dont know how a block party @ morningside and lawrence sounds like a remotely good idea, even if the idea itself is to bring the community together. Shall we organize a block party next week at jane and finch? A block party is NEVER a good idea. NEVER. Why? Because some people have kids that they are not equipped to raise and churn out ***** douchey kids that our kids will have to be exposed to and then they are set loose on the public to fend for themselves as the ***** people they are.

I agree with you. The parents are horrible. I remember a kid asking me to help find his bike because these thugs stole it from him so I found a bike matching his description and I asked the mom living at that house if it was a stolen bike or not and she replied "My kids had their bikes stolen too". She was just so uncooperative with my one single question. How could a woman raise 4-6 children with that kind of a attitude?

She threatened to call the police and I decided to not fight her words because of her stubborn nature. Oh yeah and she even forced me to go on her property by yelling at me "stand right here". Idk what she was thinking when she could force me to go on her property making it seemingly to be harassment.

[manmanny]

...
I dont know how a block party @ morningside and lawrence sounds like a remotely good idea, even if the idea itself is to bring the community together. ...
...
I thought now that area has Muslim population. But looking at the videos and news coverage Its wrong assumption.
But one common thing is TCHC. Wherever there is TCHC there is this huge problem.

[Xpwmata]

I thought now that area has Muslim population. But looking at the videos and news coverage Its wrong assumption.
But one common thing is TCHC. Wherever there is TCHC there is this huge problem.

Lawrence and Markham towards Lawrence and McCowan has a large Muslim population.

[Chep]

Does the media blow it up to the point of fearing white people, no they don't. They don't even mention the high correlation.

This whole thing about only white people being pedophiles is a joke. Go to the any other country in the world where there are zero to no white men, and you'll find that there are still pedophiles. How can that be? Oh yes, that's because its done in the family and is not reported due to cultural shame. Not so the case amongst white North America. Pedophilia is hidden in most cultures, but is exposed in white North America. Can't hide shooting up the place, no matter what colour or culture you are.

[dec12]

these things don't happen in woodbridge, maple, vaughan.



Suddenly, the $750K for a postage stamp lot in these areas doesn't sound too bad.

[navigator416]

I thought now that area has Muslim population. But looking at the videos and news coverage Its wrong assumption.
But one common thing is TCHC. Wherever there is TCHC there is this huge problem.

I grew up with plenty of people that had muslim parents and were into illegal things and would still pray every friday or whatever, just like I'm not being outrageous by stating that the shooters last night could have had a jesus chain around their neck and will still go to church this sunday - religion means nothing. Most parents have NO idea they have a ***** kid and it's not always the parents fault either, sometimes the best parents raise ***** kids because they might have to work 2 or 3 jobs to support the 3 or 4 kids they weren't ready to have. Again, the douchey, thug-life "lifestyle" is not only a "black" thing. Especially in scarborough. Brown, white, black, yellow - there is all kinds of ***** people that try to "act scarborough".

Seriously, all it takes is 2 of these douchey kids in a crowd of 200 to ruin everything for everyone.

[PCDawg]

the guy who got shot and killed was from Ajax... pretty far to go to a block party.

somebody send the reddit link to the police

so if he's from ajax what does that mean?
He probaby got invited there as he's a basketball coach of a at-risk youth program in Malvern

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1227771--joshua-yasay-scarborough-shooting-victim-one-of-the-good-guys

[Blunt]

so if he's from ajax what does that mean?
He probaby got invited there as he's a basketball coach of a at-risk youth program in Malvern

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1227771--joshua-yasay-scarborough-shooting-victim-one-of-the-good-guys

Remember the guy charged in the Eaton Centre shooting also worked with troubled youths....
I'm not buy any of this main-stream media, 'oh.. the victims were a good guy/girl' BS any more.

The reddit post really shined a light on the truth of the event.

[Show_boat]

The music industry started portraying hip-hop artists as thugs when they saw it sold more records as they got more free media coverage because of the shock value. Hip-hop started out as an alternative to gang life in the Bronx, an area that police had stopped patrolling in the 70s and was extremely poor. When hip-hop started getting popular, the record companies quickly realized that the more the artists shocked with images of being 'real thugs' the more albums they sold. This encouraged youths to take on a thug image to get signed on labels. With most of the top hip-hop artists promoting the thug life the kids listening to it thought that was what was cool. Add to this the massive arrival of crack cocaine in poor areas and we get what we have now. Don't even get me started on how it was the CIA that facilitated the importation of crack into poor black communities to help fund the Contras in Nicaragua to overthrow a democratically elected government.

All of this does not excuse any criminal behavior and those that do criminal acts should be punished by our laws.
Ohhh I see so its hip hop fault this happened I got the perfect song for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzeZhCt5PVA

[neutral]

Remember the guy charged in the Eaton Centre shooting also worked with troubled youths....
I'm not buy any of this main-stream media, 'oh.. the victims were a good guy/girl' BS any more.

The reddit post really shined a light on the truth of the event.
Huh? The police and media said the the shooting involved gang members, and they suspect this shooting was also gang related. Just because they choose to report facts instead of racist innuendo doesn't mean they are portraying the victims as perfect people.

[navigator416]

For anyone late to the party: http://www.reddit.com/user/BitchslappedByLogic

dont know if that was linked - there is enough "evidence" IMO for me to say ***** that and stay home even if for some reason I thought it sounded like a good time. There's a few tweets in there that foreshadowed exactly what I would assume would happen. Not enough Hennessy in the world. Everyone there knew the potential for this to happen. You don't grow up in that area and not learn street smarts. Double negative hurts to read but you get it.

[TheRed]

So it's an annual BBQ party..alright I'm moving to Richmond Hill.

Yay my house in Richmond hill are gonna keep appreciating when peeps from south, east and west are moving up here!

Richmond hill and Aurora are rich communities

[LaserEnvy]

Yay my house in Richmond hill are gonna keep appreciating when peeps from south, east and west are moving up here!

Richmond hill and Aurora are rich communities

Markham was always a nice, peaceful area but now it is going downhill as other groups of people continue to move in.

[Blueroom]

Where are these kid's fathers?

[Tornado F2]

That is pretty far removed from where this stuff is going down. This stuff tends to exist in a microcosm. I don't think there are going to be any large scale public events again as a result of this.

Caribana.

Watch out! Unless the police conduct a large-scale weapons sweep [delete]

[dec12]

picture of female victim

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/suns-prod-images/1297287203873_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80

The poor girl just turned her life around. She's going back to school in September and hoping to be a doctor someday.

[Tornado F2]

I bet the cops are having a field day gathering up info on the people commenting.

Hopefully.

[Tornado F2]

The poor girl just turned her life around. She's going back to school in September and hoping to be a doctor someday.

That's not funny. True or not. If that's really one of the victims then show her some respect. And somebody find a better picture of her.

[neutral]

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/topstories/2012/07/17/mi-shyanne.jpg


2nd victim

https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/1605524415/Joshua.jpg

[Tornado F2]

The media glorifies thug culture, thugs are suposidly the epitome of the rebel and being bad.

This is interesting, regarding the origins of "thugs":

Thuggee (Hindi: ठग्गी or ṭhagī; Urdu: ٹھگ; Sanskrit: sthaga), also known as tuggee or simply thugs, was a religious cult and an organized gang of professional assassins who traveled in groups across India for several hundred years. They were first mentioned in the Ẓiyāʾ-ud-Dīn Baranī (English: History of Fīrūz Shāh) dated around 1356.[1] In the 1830s they were targeted by William Bentinck, along with his chief captain William Henry Sleeman, for eradication. They were seemingly destroyed by this effort.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee

Would our society accept a similar "eradication" today?

[interesting that this post was okay, while mention of 1938's "peace in our time" was deletable for some completely unknown reason. Oh, right, it was considered "politics" :facepalm:]

[Tornado F2]

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/topstories/2012/07/17/mi-shyanne.jpg


2nd victim

https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/1605524415/Joshua.jpg

Thanks, that's better. However they may have been in real life, they are both sadly victims and yet more police statistics now. This pointless slaughter really needs to stop. It's time for a culture change as the existing one is obviously helping nobody (except rich corporate execs).

[Tornado F2]

these things don't happen in woodbridge, maple, vaughan.


Be careful, they just might bring their [snip] to your 'hood next time. They've already been to Yonge St and the Eaton Centre, so why not your community too? All they need are a few [delete] tokens.

[xlc_88]

Be careful, they just might bring their show to your 'hood next time. They've already been to Yonge St and the Eaton Centre, so why not your community too? All they need are a few transit tokens.

They should definitely head up north...higher ROI. No point sticking around Scarborough...they're all too poor right? :S

[Tornado F2]

Please stop with racist innuendos. The people who were enjoying the barbecue, a most innocent of gatherings ended up with dead and injured. Does it need racial labeling? All these people who can't see beyond skin colour or race are frightening all by themselves. One never knows what can set them off! Hide under a rock.

As much as I agree with your post, it's sadly ironic considering your postname. Proof that all races/nationalities/colours/other groupings are capable of performing unbelievably horrific acts at times. Or more accurately, certain individuals within each grouping are capable of such detestable actions.

Fortunately the converse is also true. All peoples are capable of performing good deeds, and most usually do. It's just a shame that the evil minority get most of the attention.

[Tornado F2]

They should definitely head up north...higher ROI. No point sticking around Scarborough...they're all too poor right? :S

It's true. As much as I hate criminals, and hate to give them ideas, they're going about their [snip] all wrong. But maybe it's better that way, keeping everything confined to specific [delete]. I just feel sorry for the decent people stuck living there with them. This problem really needs sorting.

[ibeblunt]

I cannot believe I am living in the same city as some of the posters on this forum!! unbelievable! They walk around with their heads bowed, quiet, cannot even make an eye contact yet you see what runs through their heads? They scare me more than the thugs, I tell you!!

[navigator416]

Caribana.

Watch out! Unless the police conduct a large-scale weapons sweep beforehand.

Realistically, other than the shooting back in what 2000 or even the 90's, what gun crimes have been reported related to Toronto's caribana?

[kenchau66]

I pray that the sinners will be caught promptly

this is outrageous

[DrXenon]

Shame nobody shot back. In the States, there is a decent chance an armed citizen would have ended the whole thing after 4 shots or so. That is what they do to jump-up gunmen down there.


Samuel Williams, 71, who fired the shots, has a concealed weapons permit, according to the Sheriff’s Office. Under Florida law, a person is allowed to use deadly force if he or she fears death or serious injury to themselves or others.

As long as the person isn’t committing a crime and is in a place where he or she has a right to be, they are considered to be acting within the law.

Williams, who lives in Ocala, could not be reached for comment on Monday. But at least one of his 30 fellow patrons at the cafe wants to thank him.

“I think he is wonderful. If he wouldn’t have been there, there could have been some innocent people shot,” said Mary Beach.

Beach was sitting in with her back to the door Friday night and didn’t realize what was happening until she heard shots.

“I heard pop, pop; then pop, pop, pop, all at once,” she said. “In the confusion I never really got to see his (Williams) face.”

Surveillance video of the incident was released on Monday by the Sheriff’s Office. It shows two masked men entering the Palms Internet Cafe, 8444 SW State Road 200, just before 10 p.m. Friday. One of the men had a gun.
Williams was seated toward the back of the cafe dressed in a white shirt, shorts and baseball cap.

One of the masked men, identified as Duwayne Henderson, 19, comes in pointing a handgun at customers. The second man, Davis Dawkins, 19, is seen swinging a bat at something off screen, which was later identified as a $1,200 computer screen.

As Henderson turns his back, Williams pulls out a .380-caliber semi-automatic handgun, stands from his chair, takes two steps, nearly drops to one knee, and fires two shots at Henderson, who bolts for the front door.

Williams takes several more steps toward the door and continues firing as Henderson and Dawkins fall over one another trying to exit the building. The two eventually run off screen.

Both men were shot by Williams. Their wounds were not life-threatening. Each was arrested hours later and charged with attempted armed robbery with a firearm and felony criminal mischief.

[Millstone]

Shame nobody shot back. In the States, there is a decent chance an armed citizen would have ended the whole thing after 4 shots or so. That is what they do to jump-up gunmen down there.

You really want Ontario to be Florida? Really? I'm glad you were able to find some nugget of heroism in Florida, but you've gotta take the whole thing or nothing at all.

[Tornado F2]

Realistically, other than the shooting back in what 2000 or even the 90's, what gun crimes have been reported related to Toronto's caribana?

[snip] if people in the community are spouting off about revenge so close to Caribana it only makes sense to watch out.

[Ironsmack]

For anyone late to the party: http://www.reddit.com/user/BitchslappedByLogic

dont know if that was linked - there is enough "evidence" IMO for me to say ***** that and stay home even if for some reason I thought it sounded like a good time. There's a few tweets in there that foreshadowed exactly what I would assume would happen. Not enough Hennessy in the world. Everyone there knew the potential for this to happen. You don't grow up in that area and not learn street smarts. Double negative hurts to read but you get it.


The grammar/spelling on most/if not all of those twitter links are just horrible. It took me awhile to figure out what they were saying most of the time.

[serbianbelle]

As much as I agree with your post, it's sadly ironic considering your postname. Proof that all races/nationalities/colours/other groupings are capable of performing unbelievably horrific acts at times. Or more accurately, certain individuals within each grouping are capable of such detestable actions.

Fortunately the converse is also true. All peoples are capable of performing good deeds, and most usually do. It's just a shame that the evil minority get most of the attention.

At seventy I have learned everyone is capable of murder in certain circumstances. Even my grown children think Serbs are killers and little else. I try to tell them there are writers, poets, painters, musicians and films that have been received very well. We also have some beautiful traditions. Yes, there are killers among us. It is a burden we will carry for centuries. It's a lesson other ethnic groups could learn from. Extreme nationalism leads to extreme action. When one has no respect for others' humanity, one has no respect for ones' own.

[Tornado F2]

At seventy I have learned everyone is capable of murder in certain circumstances. Even my grown children think Serbs are killers and little else. I try to tell them there are writers, poets, painters, musicians and films that have been received very well. We also have some beautiful traditions. Yes, there are killers among us. It is a burden we will carry for centuries. It's a lesson other ethnic groups could learn from. Extreme nationalism leads to extreme action. When one has no respect for others' humanity, one has no respect for ones' own.

As I said before, I am in agreement with you. One of my favourite footballers is a Serb, and Serb-Canadians (among other ethnicities) I have known have been good people too. It's really a shame that the evil extremists are the ones that most people hear of.

Sounds like you were born in a terrible time in your homeland yourself. Glad to hear things are picking up there.

[toguy]

Realistically, other than the shooting back in what 2000 or even the 90's, what gun crimes have been reported related to Toronto's caribana?

How quickly we forget...


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/07/30/tor-shooting-caribbean-festival642.html (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/07/30/tor-shooting-caribbean-festival642.html)

[Dina_E]

Censoring won't stop "urban youths" from shooting the city up and hurting innocent bystanders.

[kingofwale]

Censoring won't stop "urban youths" from shooting the city up and hurting innocent bystanders.

you mean.. "urban market"?? ;)

what's the latest on this? there are reportedly hundreds of people on the scene, not 1 video was posted on youtube? COME ON!!

[jenny_z_z]

As always, when I saw this thread come up yesterday, I expected to find it filled the next day with the immature comments of the childish young men who make up RFD. This is what happens when you lack regular social contact with adult Canadian society, and need an outlet to vent your frustrations.

[AcidBomber]

:!: Please keep the comments respectful and on topic. Any racist remarks or inappropriate senseless comments will receive an automatic ban.

[webdoctors]

I went through all these pages, but still haven't found any explanation for such brutality. Such young people killed early on in life. The best years of my life happened after the years these ppl will never reach.

Shocked so many ppl would be shot, crazy ppl walking da streets...

[Tornado F2]

you mean.. "urban market"?? ;)

what's the latest on this? there are reportedly hundreds of people on the scene, not 1 video was posted on youtube? COME ON!!

It wasn't a camera club gathering.

(Surely THAT can't be consi[snip]ed offensive. Especially consi[delete]g all the truly offensive posts and links still in this thread).

[LostInTruth]

Chris Rock speaks for all black people now. Excellent. Admittedly that was a funny skit, but I don't think most posters understand the context.

[zz000ter]

I went through all these pages, but still haven't found any explanation for such brutality.

The primitive quest for "respect"

[wilsonlam97]

They should definitely head up north...higher ROI. No point sticking around Scarborough...they're all too poor right? :S

No. They feed off the "nice Canadians" so there is nothing there for them.

[Peckerwood]

In the HBO documentary "Gun Fight", gun advocates allege that if carrying guns were allowed in the Virginia Tech campus, then the outcome may have been different, as a civilian carrying a gun may have stopped that killer.

However, they also show a test in which several students are packed in a classroom, all wearing masks and vests. Some of these students carry concealed paint guns. In the simulation a masked man suddenly enters the classroom unannounced, armed with a paint gun and starts shooting the students randomly.

The result is interesting: the students carrying the concealed paint guns react and end up shooting some of their fellow students accidentally, some can't even draw their guns.
The problems with the test as it was done were multiple. the one portraying the part of the "shooter" was a SWAT commander who had nearly 3 decades of tactical high-stress shooting experience, both in training and in actual gun fights engaging in high-rick entries. Hardly your average lone nut type to have to go against.

Secondly, the "shooter" knew where all of the concealed carry persons happened to be and targeted them first before they could even get their guns out

Thirdly, the CCW people were given heavy bulky sweaters to wear, were wearing gloves, and cumbersome masks to obstruct their vision and fields of view. They also had absolutely no prior CCW training, gun knowledge or safety expertise in the handling of weapons for defense.

As an added point, despite the multiple years that the "shooter" had in those high stress environments and training...one of the untrained students still was able to get off a life threatening shot that in a real life scenario would have ended up killing the shooter.


So this shows the danger of weapons in general.

No it shows the effect of propaganda carefully executed by the Police and the MSM in order to sway the public from the obvious truth...that guns are used multiple times in the US by both highly trained individuals and those with a modicum of training or experience, to save their lives or the lives of others.

[Tornado F2]

Hey, Pecker[snip]'s looking in from Yukon. Shame he wasn't there with his [delete] to save the day. :razz:

[serbianbelle]

Oh,I have escaped the worst of it. Next year will be 5 decades since I arrived here.

[stealth]

Who are the leaders of these communities?

Just wait, they'll make themselves apparent the day a cop applies the law in a potentially heavy handed way to a suspect in their area.

[manmanny]

Here we go.

Jane and Eglinton shooting.

[Tornado F2]

? And you know it was whites who made those posts how? Could they have been Indian? Maybe...Chinese? ....Maybe...Arab?...Maybe

What an appalling comment.

Does "dudebro" sound like a name a [snip] poster would use to you? I suspect he was just pretending to be white for whatever reason. You can't take anybody at face value on the web.

[Peckerwood]

Hey, Peckerwood's looking in from Yukon. Shame he wasn't there with his firearms to save the day. :razz:

Who says I would bother to raise a finger. Looks like gang related violence to me...let them sort it out themselves. ;)

[Tornado F2]

Who says I would bother to raise a finger. Looks like gang related violence to me...let them sort it out themselves. ;)

But you'd be happy to hand out the [delete]", wouldn't you? And a steady supply of ammo.

[prosper88]

So.. who is going to Caribana?

[Tornado F2]

Here we go.

Jane and Eglinton shooting.

Link?

[tommyamaral]

http://www.680news.com/news/local/article/383741--one-dead-in-shooting-near-jane-and-eglinton

[Tornado F2]

So.. who is going to Caribana?

Mayor Ford's going to dread anybody connecting the two, even though it's so obvious.

Wonder what his reaction would have been if that demented Montreal murder/mutilation had occurred in TO just a week or so prior to the "pride" event?

(I'm not talking politics here, just his position as mayor and the desire for tourist dollars).

[mjl_toronto]

Here we go.

Jane and Eglinton shooting.


Link?


http://www.680news.com/news/local/article/383741--one-dead-in-shooting-near-jane-and-eglinton

I seriously hope this is not connected. This is getting stupid.
Victim of the Jane/Eglinton incident was in his 40s.

[Tornado F2]

http://www.680news.com/news/local/article/383741--one-dead-in-shooting-near-jane-and-eglinton

10PM huh? Hopefully no kids were playing soccer there at that late a time.

Does there appear to be a connection, or is it just speculation at this point?

[trixstar]

there will probably be a shooting everyday until they are caught

[ClubberLang]

Mkay I am going to say very little cause this is a disgusting tragedy.

The people that did this need be thrown in a hole to die.

But to address the remarks regarding "urban" youth:

I'm "urban":rolleyes: and I have absolutely nothing in common with a scumbag that carries a gun and engages in a shoot out in a public place. I am not part of that "community" of people that kill other people. Neither are the people that happen to live in that neighbourhood in Scarborough or have the same colour skin. In this case, the "community" is defined by being a gun totting murdering Maniac. Luka Magnotta has more in common with the shooters than anyone who happens to have the same colour skin or wear the same "urban" clothing.

[stealth]

10PM huh? Hopefully no kids were playing soccer there at that late a time.

Does there appear to be a connection, or is it just speculation at this point?

Oh wow...I played on that field with a schoolmate who lived in a condo on Emmett ave when I was in gr 7/8. Rough neighborhood.

[stealth]

But you'd be happy to hand out the "hardware", wouldn't you? And a steady supply of ammo.

I doubt it...from his post above, and history of posts, Peckerwood is about self preservation not an orgy of bullets.

[stealth]

So.. who is going to Caribana?

The closest I would come is listening to Bob Marley on the deck at the cottage while drinking a piña colada ;)
It just wouldn't be fair....my gun was legally obtained and registered. :0

[wilsonlam97]

Mkay I am going to say very little cause this is a disgusting tragedy.

The people that did this need be thrown in a hole to die.

But to address the remarks regarding "urban" youth:

I'm "urban":rolleyes: and I have absolutely nothing in common with a scumbag that carries a gun and engages in a shoot out in a public place. I am not part of that "community" of people that kill other people. Neither are the people that happen to live in that neighbourhood in Scarborough or have the same colour skin. In this case, the "community" is defined by being a gun totting murdering Maniac. Luka Magnotta has more in common with the shooters than anyone who happens to have the same colour skin or wear the same "urban" clothing.

Nobody said urban. Everybody is pointing at the ghetto communities and Ontario housing.

[LostInTruth]

So.. who is going to Caribana?

I have no idea what this has to do with anything? I'm not going to Caribana because I'm personally over the event.

The ignorance continues to astound.

[Jimboski]

Yesterday : East Side shooting
Today : West Side shooting
Tomorrow : ????

[LostInTruth]

Nobody said urban. Everybody is pointing at the ghetto communities and Ontario housing.

Before the clean-up of these posts, many posters said urban. I remember back during the Eaton Center shooting, one person said "what do you expect naming it the Urban Eatery":facepalm:

Living your short life in fear due to prejudice will provide you with many shortcomings.

[congeetime]

So much information on reddit loll "Gangster" or "urban" vocabulary has dumbed down a lot. So difficult trying to read some of these twitter posts.

[wwedx]

People here talk about Scarborough like its the worst place in the world. It's not honestly its just the areas with Ontario housing IMO

[Ceryx]

People here talk about Scarborough like its the worst place in the world. It's not honestly its just the areas with Ontario housing IMO

I think that area is like Jane/Finch of North York.

[rjones416]

pretty much all of scarborough is ontario housing though. while driving through there its just one ghetto building after the next.

[cheapmeister]

I wonder how many peeps saw the shooters and how many of them will step up and be a witness? Knowing the hate towards the police and the fear of being killed by the shooters, I can't see anyone volunteering to be a witness in court. This is going to be a problem for conviction.

[LaserEnvy]

For anyone late to the party: http://www.reddit.com/user/BitchslappedByLogic

dont know if that was linked - there is enough "evidence" IMO for me to say ***** that and stay home even if for some reason I thought it sounded like a good time. There's a few tweets in there that foreshadowed exactly what I would assume would happen. Not enough Hennessy in the world. Everyone there knew the potential for this to happen. You don't grow up in that area and not learn street smarts. Double negative hurts to read but you get it.

Now that we have a glimpse into the lives of the people in that area; what is it about their culture that people, especially young people, find so appealing? This has baffled me since elementary school. It seems people are always striving to act like thugs and live a thug life. Why do people want to embrace this lifestyle? Why do they want to appear less educated, less articulate, more violent?

[jaxx lite]

pretty much all of scarborough is ontario housing though. while driving through there its just one ghetto building after the next.

No

There are some nice houses and condos

-

[goodguy90]

Now that we have a glimpse into the lives of the people in that area; what is it about their culture that people, especially young people, find so appealing? This has baffled me since elementary school. It seems people are always striving to act like thugs and live a thug life. Why do people want to embrace this lifestyle? Why do they want to appear less educated, less articulate, more violent?

The immature ladies are into the bad boys and gangstas. An intellectual persona is typically not associated with this.

So kids start emulating this crap in elementary school and high school, and end up with nothing to do after graduation.

Just one reason among many.

[wwedx]

No

There are some nice houses and condos

-

Exactly. I bet no one here actually lives there

[LaserEnvy]

Exactly. I bet no one here actually lives there

There are nice, upscale areas less than 10 min by car from that intersection.

[Hehateme34]

WOW at the perception that Scarborough as a whole is bad, it is probably the most safest district in Toronto. There are more shootings in the downtown core, North ork and Rexdale for example but for some reason those that don't know anything about Scarborough are always quick to judge the area. First of all statistically speaking the WESTEND of the city had been most notorious involving shootings and homicides for years just take a look at the crime maps on Toronto Police website. And I agree with a poster that said the fact the most of these violence occurences take place on TCHC properties which again are mostly in the downtown core or northwest part of Toronto.

[wilsonlam97]

WOW at the perception that Scarborough as a whole is bad, it is probably the most safest district in Toronto. There are more shootings in the downtown core, North ork and Rexdale for example but for some reason those that don't know anything about Scarborough are always quick to judge the area. First of all statistically speaking the WESTEND of the city had been most notorious involving shootings and homicides for years just take a look at the crime maps on Toronto Police website. And I agree with a poster that said the fact the most of these violence occurences take place on TCHC properties which again are mostly in the downtown core or northwest part of Toronto.

Your right. Its just the parts of Scarborough with Ontario housing that is horrible. Almost everywhere.

[wilsonlam97]

Yesterday : East Side shooting
Today : West Side shooting
Tomorrow : ????

They havin' a day off tomorro'. It's whopper Wednesday.

[Jimboski]

They havin' a day off tomorro'. It's whopper Wednesday.

Could that be the next spot?

[Peckerwood]

But you'd be happy to hand out the "hardware", wouldn't you? And a steady supply of ammo.

Did you just have a brain fart? I wouldn't hand out a damn thing due to (1) how highly illegal that is...and (2) the sheer fact that these types of idiots are already heavily armed.

On the flip side, I don't tend to shed many tears when gang members exsanguinate

[Show_boat]

No

There are some nice houses and condos

-

exactly there are quite a few million dollar communities within scarb but its only the negitive that people tend to focus on and streotype

[dec12]

Yesterday : East Side shooting
Today : West Side shooting
Tomorrow : ????

How did these upstanding citizens manage to buy and register their guns?

[manmanny]

Yesterday : East Side shooting
Today : West Side shooting
Tomorrow : ????

http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_CA/rooms_ideas/Wacky_Wednesday/WW_440x230.gif

somewhere near North York? Probably IKEA? (hope not nowhere)

[kingofwale]

exactly there are quite a few million dollar communities within scarb but its only the negitive that people tend to focus on and streotype

I would say it is pretty unfair for Scarborough. When there's a shooting in Toronto, they go by "Jane and Finch" or "little Italy" or "Eaton Centre". When it's in the east side (Remember Scarborough is 1/3 of all Toronto), it's "Scarborough".

When you are a 1/3 of Toronto, and always refereed to, of course the perception is bad.

I dare that every crime gets reported with "Toronto" title, we will see how that sounds by the end of the year.

[jaysfan4life]

exactly there are quite a few million dollar communities within scarb but its only the negitive that people tend to focus on and streotype

They should have reported that this happened in west hill or guildwood park that project is 2-3 blocks from million dollar homes. I guess the Malvern vs Galloway beef is heating up again.

[ssainani]

When you are a 1/3 of Toronto, and always refereed to, of course the perception is bad.
.

agree 100%

For other areas the media mentions the intersection -- they never mention shooting in North York -- Just at Jane and Finch.

[starkiller2010]

Scarborough makes up like 1/3 of the City of Toronto, so of course there are nice parts and not so nice parts. Its stupid that the media uses the term Scarborough for the shootings on Monday, but then names 'Jane and Eglinton' for the shooting on Tuesday; shouldn't it be 'North York'?

[kingofwale]

Scarborough makes up like 1/3 of the City of Toronto, so of course there are nice parts and not so nice parts. Its stupid that the media uses the term Scarborough for the shootings on Monday, but then names 'Jane and Eglinton' for the shooting on Tuesday; shouldn't it be 'North York'?

worse when they called it "Jane area"??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME.

news media will never call North York when there is a shooting there. I don't know why, but it's much easier to bash on places like Scarborough, Jane and Finch.... so on.

[neutral]

worse when they called it "Jane area"??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME.

news media will never call North York when there is a shooting there. I don't know why, but it's much easier to bash on places like Scarborough, Jane and Finch.... so on.

The media has the power to create certain biases. Certain perceptions. Are they actually doing it? I guess people can debate that.

[brian.gerson]

So, if there are problems like this with people from certain countries, does it not make sense to curtail immigration from those countries?

[iEyeCaptain]

How did these upstanding citizens manage to buy and register their guns?

My bet is that these guns were smuggled from the States.

[flashy_mcflash]

So, if there are problems like this with people from certain countries

What country are you talking about?

[brian.gerson]

South Korea, obviously. Math gangs.

[hi-tech]

The only way to really deal with this is to foster a culture of snitching on people who own guns within problem demographics, and just to be safe, in schools and other government institutions. If our redneck Southern neighbors weren't so bent out of shape about protecting their "freedom" from "tyranny" with firearms, we likely wouldn't be in this mess, but we are, and a top down approach to getting rid of this menace is the only solution to limiting gun violence.

[monomono]

So, if there are problems like this with people from certain countries, does it not make sense to curtail immigration from those countries?

Check your logic. Just because a certain type of people frequently come from country A, it does not mean all people from country A are that type of people.

Also, check your intentions. Do you really want to find a solution to the problem, or do you just want to kick foreigners out your country?

[flashy_mcflash]

I literally have no idea what country he's talking about. Blackistan?

The shooters seem to be from the black community, but there is no specific country one can tie to this.

[brian.gerson]

Check your logic. Just because a certain type of people frequently come from country A, it does not mean all people from country A are that type of people.

Check your propensity to raise straw men. If our experience is that Italians settle in Richmond Hill and Woodbridge, build million-dollar homes and pay taxes, let's preferentially recruit Italians.



Also, check your intentions. Do you really want to find a solution to the problem, or do you just want to kick foreigners out your country?

I would love to kick the folks who perpetrate these kinds of crimes out of the country, but folks like you would prefer to give them house arrest and a big hug.

[flashy_mcflash]

I would love to kick the folks who perpetrate these kinds of crimes out of the country, but folks like you would prefer to give them house arrest and a big hug.

To where? They are Canadian citizens. What country, in your opinion, would happily take Canada's criminals? Have you given this idea more than, say, a minute's thought?

[sedated_xtc]

Yesterday : East Side shooting
Today : West Side shooting
Tomorrow : ???? (http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/215480--man-arrested-after-alleged-machete-attack)

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/215480--man-arrested-after-alleged-machete-attack

I hope this isn't related, but that's 3 violent crimes in 3 days :(

[rdx]

+1

Send them all back

Agree. Send them all back. Most of them are either trouble or burden to the city.

We should only take immigrants who can contribute to the country either $ or skills.

[ssainani]

I hope this isn't related, but that's 3 violent crimes in 3 days :(

I am pretty sure a violent crime happens every single day -- not that it's a terrible thing. You take 5 million people and 1 a day is a great number all of a sudden.

It's still one of the safest places in the world - safer than most small cities even in Canada.

[sedated_xtc]

Agree. Send them all back. Most of them are either trouble or burden to the city.

We should only take immigrants who can contribute to the country either $ or skills.

I agree. I used to work at a bank and there were enough times I see some people come in with all these welfare checks that were more than what I was making, not speaking english (and expecting me to magically know THEIR language) and being rude and obnoxious (just cut the line like it's not big deal, complain about how other clients are taking too long, etc).

[rdx]

There is no sending them back, I bet most of these people were born in Canada. This is pretty much the end result, nothing can be done at this point we just have to except that this behaviour is going to continue.

That's true unfortunately............

[stealth]

They should have reported that this happened in west hill or guildwood park that project is 2-3 blocks from million dollar homes. I guess the Malvern vs Galloway beef is heating up again.

But thats how the southwestern ontario/GTA is set up....no matter where you are, you are within a short walk to ghettos/low income housing AND nice residences. everythign is built in pockets.

Now some regions just have more/less or better/worse pockets of each.

[stealth]

To where? They are Canadian citizens. What country, in your opinion, would happily take Canada's criminals? Have you given this idea more than, say, a minute's thought?

depends if theyre rich criminals or not ;)

But ya, its unrealistic that any country would have lower standards for immigration entrance than Canada. ;)

Heres a thought...ppl that like to shoot guns at other ppl get forced to serve time in the military in Afghanistan....like a spin of a conscript military, have a convict military...rent them out to the US to deploy on dangerous missions as they see fit. :)

[olssy]

I would love to kick the folks who perpetrate these kinds of crimes out of the country, but folks like you would prefer to give them house arrest and a big hug.


Agree. Send them all back. Most of them are either trouble or burden to the city.

We should only take immigrants who can contribute to the country either $ or skills.


I agree. I used to work at a bank and there were enough times I see some people come in with all these welfare checks that were more than what I was making, not speaking english (and expecting me to magically know THEIR language) and being rude and obnoxious (just cut the line like it's not big deal, complain about how other clients are taking too long, etc).

I'd like to deport all of the people saying stuff like to some isolated island and film what happens when you have no more minorities to blame for your own shortcomings.

[Rainne]

Immigration is not going to stop considering our low birthrate.

I think it's an insurance policy if anything: Recruit immigrants -> mother has like 5 children -> kids grow up and pay taxes

[flashy_mcflash]

Heres a thought...ppl that like to shoot guns at other ppl get forced to serve time in the military in Afghanistan....like a spin of a conscript military, have a convict military...rent them out to the US to deploy on dangerous missions as they see fit. :)

Entrusting the safety of civilians and the nation to gangbangers. What could go wrong! :D

[iEyeCaptain]

Immigration is not going to stop considering our low birthrate.

I think it's an insurance policy if anything: Recruit immigrants -> mother has like 5 children -> kids grow up and pay taxes

Problem with this is that if the parents are bad parents, those 5 children would grow up to be gang bangers or murderers or Ragu.

[elmst200]

that depends on how you define "bad". There are confusions of "bad" with "poor" in this thread.


Problem with this is that if the parents are bad parents, those 5 children would grow up to be gang bangers or murderers or Ragu.

[iEyeCaptain]

that depends on how you define "bad". There are confusions of "bad" with "poor" in this thread.

The ones who have kids for the government benefits. Then "raise" them by leaving them outside the house to hang with other government benefits kids.

I see a lot of these kids in Bra... nevermind.

[brian.gerson]

Immigration is not going to stop considering our low birthrate.

I think it's an insurance policy if anything: Recruit immigrants -> mother has like 5 children -> kids grow up and pay taxes

Low birth rate is no reason to throw open the doors. You can incentivize women to have babies, for example. Places like Switzerland have no problem existing without massive immigration.

[stealth]

Entrusting the safety of civilians and the nation to gangbangers. What could go wrong! :D

Nothing. Because I dont personally believe activities in Afghanistan have any bearing on the safety to our nation or civilians;)

[flashy_mcflash]

Low birth rate is no reason to throw open the doors. You can incentivize women to have babies, for example. Places like Switzerland have no problem existing without massive immigration.

Why are you intent on derailing this thread when you haven't shown that THIS SHOOTING, the one this thread is about, has the SLIGHTEST thing to do with immigration?

[stealth]

Immigration is not going to stop considering our low birthrate.

I think it's an insurance policy if anything: Recruit immigrants -> mother has like 5 children -> kids grow up with unemployed neglecting mom, dont learn a good work ethic or delayed gratification of education, and proceed to life of crime/welfare as adults.

fixed...with another version of reality.
Lets face it, a lot of the poorer neighborhoods where there are a lot of kids, the parents seemed to lose control of those kids at an early age.
In fact, if they didnt have kids (or maybe not at such a young age), they prob would have been able to work their way out of the "marginilization" through retraining, re-educating, saving etc.

[stealth]

Why are you intent on derailing this thread when you haven't shown that THIS SHOOTING, the one this thread is about, has the SLIGHTEST thing to do with immigration?

I have to agree ...this specific incident is more likely to have to do with race than immigration. So far, theres no reason to believe that the criminals werent born here.

Now in fairness. whether or not one wants to question the validity of the immigration of their parents who perhaps didnt come here with the economic means to make a decent living here, and thats what created the next generation of thugs, is debatable...but better for another thread.

[neutral]

Oh wow...I played on that field with a schoolmate who lived in a condo on Emmett ave when I was in gr 7/8. Rough neighborhood.

Whoa, just 40 year removed from this incident. Glad you are ok.

[15-20_God]

How about we subsidize a program to give troubled street youths target practice and teach them how to aim down the sights? That way they can more effectively eliminate each other and innocent bystanders don't get caught in the crossfire.

[stealth]

Whoa, just 40 year removed from this incident. Glad you are ok.

Less than 30yrs actually....but still too close for comfort for me!

[wwedx]

Wow another incident in Scarborough really?! I'm done defending this place
*talking about the machete thing

[supermetroid]

How about we subsidize a program to give troubled street youths target practice and teach them how to aim down the sights? That way they can more effectively eliminate each other and innocent bystanders don't get caught in the crossfire.

I think once a year all these criminals should meet up at Center Island and shoot at eachother till their heart's content.

[Tornado F2]

fixed...with another version of reality.
Lets face it, a lot of the poorer neighborhoods where there are a lot of kids, the parents seemed to lose control of those kids at an early age.
In fact, if they didnt have kids (or maybe not at such a young age), they prob would have been able to work their way out of the "marginilization" through retraining, re-educating, saving etc.

Sorry, but I think you can drop the "re" in many cases. For whatever reason the education system is failing to educate in the first place.

[Tornado F2]

I am pretty sure a violent crime happens every single day -- not that it's a terrible thing. You take 5 million people and 1 a day is a great number all of a sudden.

It's still one of the safest places in the world - safer than most small cities even in Canada.

Which member of the mayor's family are you? ;)

[Tornado F2]

Low birth rate is no reason to throw open the doors. You can incentivize women to have babies, for example. Places like Switzerland have no problem existing without massive immigration.

"There has been significant immigration to Switzerland since the 1980s. By contrast, during the 19th century, emigration from Swit[snip]more common, as Switzerland was eco[delete]y a poor country where a large fraction of population survived on subsistence farming.

As of 2008, 30.6% of Swiss resident population had an "immigr[snip]kground", defined as either immigrants or children born to imm[delete]ant parents.[1]

The largest immigrant groups in Switzerland are those from Italy, Germany, Former Yugoslavia (South Slavs and Albanians), Portuguese and Turkey (Turks and Kurds). Between them, these five groups account for about 1.5 million people, 60% of the Swiss population with immigrant background, or close to 20% of total Swiss population."

Wiki


I'm sure Canadians (and Europeans) could be encouraged to have larger families (2 children/family say), given stable economies, but for whatever reason our governments haven't pursued that, preferring immigration instead, often at each others' expense.

[brian.gerson]

Why are you intent on derailing this thread when you haven't shown that THIS SHOOTING, the one this thread is about, has the SLIGHTEST thing to do with immigration?

Whoosh.

[zz000ter]

CTV has a poll asking people how to solve the violence problem.

Stupid people say stricter gun laws and more police

Ha ha ha - that will not work.
We already have super strict laws and the guns used were unregistered (criminal guns)

What society needs to do is CHANGE ITS CULTURE
Certain segments of society live a culture of violence

Only when you change that culture will violence decrease.

Look at Switzerland as an example of a mature society.
Every house has an assault weapon at home and people do not kill one another.

[neutral]

CTV has a poll asking people how to solve the violence problem.

Stupid people say stricter gun laws and more police

Ha ha ha - that will not work.
We already have super strict laws and the guns used were unregistered (criminal guns)

What society needs to do is CHANGE ITS CULTURE
Certain segments of society live a culture of violence

Only when you change that culture will violence decrease.

Look at Switzerland as an example of a mature society.
Every house has an assault weapon at home and people do not kill one another.

How does Canada change it's culture?

[flashy_mcflash]

Whoosh.

:facepalm: What, so it was a joke? Have 100% of your posts in this thread been sarcastic?

[Tornado F2]

Look at Switzerland as an example of a mature society.
Every house has an assault weapon at home and people do not kill one another.

The Swiss with guns aren't rednecks and hoodlums. They are trained members of the national military/militia, with well-established discipline and national pride.

[brian.gerson]

As of 2008, 30.6% of Swiss resident population had an "immigrant background", defined as either immigrants or children born to immigrant parents.[1]


Yes, but in Canada that figure is a destabilizing 40% and growing. All I am saying is that there are more than enough people who want to immigrate here that do not bring with them all these social problems. The Chinese, Indians, Irish, Germans, English, Koreans, Italians, Swiss, Belgians, Americans, these are all prime candidates.



I'm sure Canadians (and Europeans) could be encouraged to have larger families (2 children/family say), given stable economies, but for whatever reason our governments haven't pursued that, preferring immigration instead, often at each others' expense.

Exactly.

[olssy]

Low birth rate is no reason to throw open the doors. You can incentivize women to have babies, for example. Places like Switzerland have no problem existing without massive immigration.

Switzerland actually has an extreme right that proposes referendums in most of the cantons specifically to stop what they call is massive immigration, and just to prove their point they made billboards in the style of nazi germany...
http://worldradio.ch/wrs/news/switzerland/swiss-peoples-party-anti-kosovar-ads-ignite-fiery-.shtml


I have to agree ...this specific incident is more likely to have to do with race than immigration. So far, theres no reason to believe that the criminals werent born here.

Now in fairness. whether or not one wants to question the validity of the immigration of their parents who perhaps didnt come here with the economic means to make a decent living here, and thats what created the next generation of thugs, is debatable...but better for another thread.
Please drop the correlations with race, race has nothing to do with it, at most you could say it is the culture of being poor in a rich country that has an impact.


CTV has a poll asking people how to solve the violence problem.

Stupid people say stricter gun laws and more police

Ha ha ha - that will not work.
We already have super strict laws and the guns used were unregistered (criminal guns)

What society needs to do is CHANGE ITS CULTURE
Certain segments of society live a culture of violence

Only when you change that culture will violence decrease.

Look at Switzerland as an example of a mature society.
Every house has an assault weapon at home and people do not kill one another.
Again these false ideas people have about Switzerland, the Swiss do not each have a gun in their house, there are as many crazy people in Switzerland as elsewhere so they don't just hand out a gun to everyone to bring back home. Every Swiss does have a gun though but it's kept in the countries different arsenals. War breaks out they are meant to go get there gun and then join their military unit, usually in secret bases in the Alps. They are so paranoid about being invaded that all their bridges are booby trapped with explosives, what they fail to realize is no one wants to invade Switzerland except maybe to steal all the gold it has in its banks.

I agree that society needs to change its culture but I'm pretty sure I see it having to go in the opposite direction as you.

[longitude]

Though I not against carrying arms and I like weapons in general, it is dangerous.

Lookt at this video.

Grandpa decides to react and almost hits cashier.



Affiliate WKMG reports a 71-year-old man used a handgun to shoot at two armed men attempting to rob an Internet cafe. (http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c2#/video/crime/2012/07/17/dnt-internet-cafe-robbery-foiled.wkmg)


Thugs were smart and ran away, but if they were gangstas and decided to open fire, then it could have been a bloodbath.

.

[Tornado F2]

Again these false ideas people have about Switzerland, the Swiss do not each have a gun in their house, there are as many crazy people in Switzerland as elsewhere so they don't just hand out a gun to everyone to bring back home. Every Swiss does have a gun though but it's kept in the countries different arsenals. War breaks out they are meant to go get there gun and then join their military unit, usually in secret bases in the Alps. They are so paranoid about being invaded that all their bridges are booby trapped with explosives, what they fail to realize is no one wants to invade Switzerland except maybe to steal all the gold it has in its banks.

I agree that society needs to change its culture but I'm pretty sure I see it having to go in the opposite direction as you.

"Paranoid" or not, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union left Switzerland alone. They both occupied neighbouring Austria.

[Abel4Life]

Please drop the correlations with race, race has nothing to do with it, at most you could say it is the culture of being poor in a rich country that has an impact.


Ok lets put it in a different way.

Even within the cultures amongst poor people, there is a specific sub-group that are committing these shootings repeatedly.

[flashy_mcflash]

Enjoying life, OT-free.

[zz000ter]

The Swiss with guns aren't rednecks and hoodlums. They are trained members of the national military/militia, with well-established discipline and national pride.

So you agree that the problem is not the guns - but THE PEOPLE

So having even stricter gun laws and more police will not prevent shootings like this.
Unless of course - every party such as this needs a mandatory police officer

Hmmm there we go - prevent gun violence.
All parties must get a licence and to get licence you must pay for police staff to protect the party

[neutral]

I think you'll find that not many citizens of several of those countries want to come here. Why would they? They have a better lifestyle already. Most immigrants coming to Canada from Switzerland, for example, are probably from elsewhere - former Yugoslavia, Africa, etc. Ditto for Germany. Probably UK, Ireland and the US too. As their economies struggle, their immigrants move on.

Yep, and the truth is, many of the groups he's begging for were considered undesirables as well. After a generation, some will be able to blend in, while others, won't be as easily accepted. There's a very good chance the shooters are Canadian, and perhaps even their parents are Canadian as well. This is a Canadian problem. It's not unprecedented either, because there are other groups who are still suffering from the unfair treatment, and outright atrocities of Canadian society.

[rdx]

Agree. Like someone said those criminals were probably born here. You are right, the question is why their parents or grandparents were allowed to come here in the first place, probably due to our loose justice system and immigration/human right law in Canada, welcoming people to come live on our welfare.
I have to agree ...this specific incident is more likely to have to do with race than immigration. So far, theres no reason to believe that the criminals werent born here.

Now in fairness. whether or not one wants to question the validity of the immigration of their parents who perhaps didnt come here with the economic means to make a decent living here, and thats what created the next generation of thugs, is debatable...but better for another thread.

[flashy_mcflash]

Agree. Like someone said those criminals were probably born here. You are right, the question is why their parents or grandparents were allowed to come here in the first place, probably due to our loose justice system and immigration/human right law in Canada, welcoming people to come live on our welfare.

And what if their parents or grandparents were born here too? And what if those parents were perfectly fine, well-adjusted people who made the same amount of money you do, without welfare?

Why do we never talk about Robert Pickton's parents, or Bernardo's parents, or Magnotta's parents, or the parents of the organized crime figures in that Little Italy shooting?

[elmst200]

good point.


And what if their parents or grandparents were born here too? And what if those parents were perfectly fine, well-adjusted people who made the same amount of money you do, without welfare?

Why do we never talk about Robert Pickton's parents, or Bernardo's parents, or Magnotta's parents, or the parents of the organized crime figures in that Little Italy shooting?

[stealth]

And what if their parents or grandparents were born here too? And what if those parents were perfectly fine, well-adjusted people who made the same amount of money you do, without welfare?

Why do we never talk about Robert Pickton's parents, or Bernardo's parents, or Magnotta's parents, or the parents of the organized crime figures in that Little Italy shooting?

Are poverty or other "social factors" part of what contributed to their crimes?
Might be, in the Little Italy case, if so, then yes, same concerns should apply.

[boywonder416]

most of these youth come are raised by single-mothers

[flashy_mcflash]

Are poverty or other "social factors" part of what contributed to their crimes?
Might be, in the Little Italy case, if so, then yes, same concerns should apply.

Maybe in all cases, maybe none, but I agree. I'm just wondering why that never comes up when we talk about those crimes, but when black folk do the shooting, it's immigration chat and 'why did we let their families in' in here, despite the fact that there's little or no indication that immigration is a factor in any way.

Anyone can create a monster.

[stealth]

Please drop the correlations with race, race has nothing to do with it, at most you could say it is the culture of being poor in a rich country that has an impact.




I respectfully disagree. Statistically speaking, these shootings in the GTA do appear to have a racial element to them like it or not.

[flashy_mcflash]

I respectfully disagree. Statistically speaking, these shootings in the GTA do appear to have a racial element to them like it or not.

x2. I don't think it's very controversial to say that this is largely a problem with the black community. Most in that community would probably agree.

[monomono]

I respectfully disagree. Statistically speaking, these shootings in the GTA do appear to have a racial element to them like it or not.

This seems to be the classic red herring. There's likely is correlation with race. Some people will disagree. yadayada.

The race angle only matters to racists. It's got nothing to do with the cause or possible solution.

[congeetime]

IMO, a big reason why so many youth today are steering towards the "thug life" is because of the music today that influences them. If you follow the evolution of rap through out the years, not only has it got dumber but it also got more violent. Back in the 90's if a rapper mentioned about gang banging or raping, it would be blasphemy, now days, you hear it in every single song.

[Tornado F2]

Maybe in all cases, maybe none, but I agree. I'm just wondering why that never comes up when we talk about those crimes, but when black folk do the shooting, it's immigration chat and 'why did we let their families in' in here, despite the fact that there's little or no indication that immigration is a factor in any way.

Anyone can create a monster.


I respectfully disagree. Statistically speaking, these shootings in the GTA do appear to have a racial element to them like it or not.

Other than the Italian hit, which recent gun murders have been committed by [delete] people? All the others appear to have been committed by [whoosh]. Fact. It's obviously a result of guns being part of that stupid "gangsta" culture.

Since they were mentioned, none of the [snip] killers Picton/Bernardo/Homolka/Manyotta(intentional)/and even Russell (military) used guns.

[flashy_mcflash]

In my day, we listened to Yellow Submarine and all the yoots went out and drowned themselves

[flashy_mcflash]

Other than the Italian hit, which recent gun murders have been committed by white people? All the others appear to have been committed by blacks. Fact. It's obviously a result of guns being part of that stupid "gangsta" culture.

Since they were mentioned, none of the white killers Picton/Bernardo/Homolka/Manyotta(intentional)/and even Russell (military) used guns.

What does that have to do with immigration? Black people can come from almost anywhere.

[Tornado F2]

IMO, a big reason why so many youth today are steering towards the "thug life" is because of the music today that influences them. If you follow the evolution of rap through out the years, not only has it got dumber but it also got more violent. Back in the 90's if a rapper mentioned about gang banging or raping, it would be blasphemy, now days, you hear it in every single song.

Time for a respected black musician or two to start spoofing the "gangsta" way and show how pathetic it really is. Trends come and go, this one has needed replacing for a full generation now. Bring back Funk or something if you can't come up with something truly new. Black audiences (and whites along with them) used to listen and dance to happy, feel-good music. Why stay perma-depressed?

[brian.gerson]

Grandpa decides to react and almost hits cashier.



Affiliate WKMG reports a 71-year-old man used a handgun to shoot at two armed men attempting to rob an Internet cafe. (http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c2#/video/crime/2012/07/17/dnt-internet-cafe-robbery-foiled.wkmg)


^^Only a Canadian could have written that post. If I pushed a pensioner away from the front of a speeding bus, you would probably want me arrested for pushing old ladies around.

[SoBored]

does anyone know how many people were actually shot?
i bet most of the 'injured' are from people running and trampling one another
seems like the situation is blown out of proportion, which isn't necessarily a bad thing since shootings are pretty rare in toronto compared to some other major cities in the world

[LostInTruth]

I'd like to deport all of the people saying stuff like to some isolated island and film what happens when you have no more minorities to blame for your own shortcomings.

LoL +1

[flashy_mcflash]

Why should it? I'm not talking about immigration.


There were lots of people that were, which is who I was addressing.

[Tornado F2]

There were lots of people that were, which is who I was addressing.

You replied to MY post.

[Tornado F2]

does anyone know how many people were actually shot?
i bet most of the 'injured' are from people running and trampling one another
seems like the situation is blown out of proportion, which isn't necessarily a bad thing since shootings are pretty rare in toronto compared to some other major cities in the world

I thought I heard 21 shot, 2 dead, 2 injured (not shot) in the rush to escape.

Obviously these gun thugs have trouble hitting barn doors with their weapons, hence the ridiculously large number of "unintended" victims. Hopefully they still receive full punishment for each shooting, intended or not.

[boywonder416]

The shooter only hit one of his intended victims who is only injured.

This victim then, pulled out his gun and started shooting any and everywhere in self-defence. It's believed to be a war between the Galloway Boyz and the Malvern Krew.

[Tornado F2]

The shooter only hit one of his intended victims who is only injured.

This victim then, pulled out his gun and started shooting any and everywhere in self-defence. It's believed to be a war between the Galloway Boyz and the Malvern Krew.

If that turns out to be true, the injured "victim" may have earned himself a longer sentence than the initial shooter/s.

Lock all the shooters away. Then, if possible, deport them at the end of their sentence. They have no place in decent society, and no reason to be kept in Canada if they're not already citizens. (Iirc the Eaton Centre shooter/intended victims were all Somali).

[iEyeCaptain]

does anyone know how many people were actually shot?
i bet most of the 'injured' are from people running and trampling one another
seems like the situation is blown out of proportion, which isn't necessarily a bad thing since shootings are pretty rare in toronto compared to some other major cities in the world

well actually most of the injured were shot.

[manmanny]

If that turns out to be true, the injured "victim" may have earned himself a longer sentence than the initial shooter/s.

Lock all the shooters away. Then, if possible, deport them at the end of their sentence. They have no place in decent society, and no reason to be kept in Canada if they're not already citizens. (Iirc the Eaton Centre shooter/intended victims were all Somali).

Doesn't work.


04/18/2012

A Jamaican man who has been deported twice from Canada snuck back into Manitoba on the weekend.

The RCMP said Staeton Kevin Grant, 40, is believed headed to Winnipeg, where his girlfriend lives.

[Superboot]

Morningside and Lawerance then Jane and Finch, whats the next location? Def some sort of gang war going on...

[Tornado F2]

Doesn't work.

Hand him back to the Yanks, if [snip]through there.

[manmanny]

Morningside and Lawerance then Jane and Finch, whats the next location? Def some sort of gang war going on...
It's always on. They don't take a break. If not here then in some other city. Blair will conduct many raids since his name/reputation is at stake. Then these guys move outside city or another city but it goes on.

[congeetime]

Time for a respected black musician or two to start spoofing the "gangsta" way and show how pathetic it really is. Trends come and go, this one has needed replacing for a full generation now. Bring back Funk or something if you can't come up with something truly new. Black audiences (and whites along with them) used to listen and dance to happy, feel-good music. Why stay perma-depressed?

There are many respected "black" musicians today to look up to unfortunately, a lot of them are overlooked and completely shunned out by youths today. I never lived in that era but i'm pretty sure when jimi hendrix or michael jackson became mainstream, people started to pick up a guitar or wanted dance lessons. I'm guessing a majority of people wanted to be a rock star or pop star back then. Now we have people inspiring to be a rapper which isn't bad but unfortunately, a lot of these youth today think that the only way to reach this goal is to pick up a gun and deal drugs.

[neutral]

The shooter only hit one of his intended victims who is only injured.

This victim then, pulled out his gun and started shooting any and everywhere in self-defence. It's believed to be a war between the Galloway Boyz and the Malvern Krew.

Ah, isn't this what the gun nuts say will help stop gun violence. If someone starts shooting, having other shooters around will help the situation? Oh dear.

[rdx]

I agree. I used to work at a bank and there were enough times I see some people come in with all these welfare checks that were more than what I was making, not speaking english (and expecting me to magically know THEIR language) and being rude and obnoxious (just cut the line like it's not big deal, complain about how other clients are taking too long, etc).

Unfortunately, lot of people in city are living in subsidized housing, spending welfare money, using our free health care system (all these come from our hard earned tax dollars), yet they spending their time to create more trouble/crime to the city.

Of course, someone is going to say every city has its problems. But we already don't have enough resources to deal with it. Certainly don't want more to come.

[Superboot]

There are many respected "black" musicians today to look up to unfortunately, a lot of them are overlooked and completely shunned out by youths today. I never lived in that era but i'm pretty sure when jimi hendrix or michael jackson became mainstream, people started to pick up a guitar or wanted dance lessons. I'm guessing a majority of people wanted to be a rock star or pop star back then. Now we have people inspiring to be a rapper which isn't bad but unfortunately, a lot of these youth today think that the only way to reach this goal is to pick up a gun and deal drugs.

I think the more realistic approach would be to have professional and well off people in the black community approach the troubled youth and teach them the thug life is wrong and mabe they will learn.

[rdx]

Problem with this is that if the parents are bad parents, those 5 children would grow up to be gang bangers or murderers or Ragu.

Unfortunately, I hardly see those highly educated and/or rich families raise 5 kids even they can afford it. A lot of the time, those 5 kids home are single mom families with low income. How can we expect them to raise the kids probably? They probably meet the gangsters on the street before they go to high school.

[Tornado F2]

I think the more realistic approach would be to have professional and well off people in the black community approach the troubled youth and teach them the thug life is wrong and mabe they will learn.

I've long thought that the well-off black entertainers and athletes should do more to help out their community. Sadly they are products of the same greed-based culture, and beyond a few token fund-raisers most do jack-all to help. The creation of academic-based scholarships would be an excellent start and incentive to buckle-down. Successful black businessmen can play their part too.

[Tornado F2]

Unfortunately, I hardly see those highly educated and/or rich families raise 5 kids even they can afford it. A lot of the time, those 5 kids home are single mom families with low income. How can we expect them to raise the kids probably? They probably meet the gangsters on the street before they go to high school.

I hate to even suggest it, but [snip]to population-control is needed in some cases, where the mother obviously has no means of her own to raise a family. I'm not going to get into what that should/shouldn't involve - I'll leave that to the paid experts to decide - but churning out [delete]no father present just to claim welfare is obviously no good.

[manmanny]

I hate to even suggest it, but maybe a draconian Chinese-style approach to population-control is needed in some cases, where the mother obviously has no means of her own to raise a family. I'm not going to get into what that should/shouldn't involve - I'll leave that to the paid experts to decide - but churning out kids with no father present just to claim welfare is obviously no good.

Nooooooooo.

[iEyeCaptain]

Unfortunately, I hardly see those highly educated and/or rich families raise 5 kids even they can afford it. A lot of the time, those 5 kids home are single mom families with low income. How can we expect them to raise the kids probably? They probably meet the gangsters on the street before they go to high school.

Community outreach programs... from a very young age. These things don't happen overnight.

[iridium001]

Caribanna is in 2 weeks - who wants to bet $10 there is going to be more shootings?

Why not right, every Caribanna always ends up with someone getting shot year after year.

[cheapmeister]

Which witness is going to testify at the trial that they saw the the shooters? Who will go to court and do that? I don't think anyone will do that for fear of being killed or someone they know being killed. Does the witness protection program still exist?

[cheapmeister]

Rob Ford wants the gang members to leave the city:
http://i.thestar.com/images/5e/27/3e3471b54cdabf2106ea13140ee6.jpg
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/cityhallpolitics/article/1228366--scarborough-shooting-mayor-rob-ford-says-gang-members-should-leave-the-city

Now Rob Ford should sit on their face and fart on them when they are caught!

[Tornado F2]

Rob Ford wants the gang members to leave the city:
http://i.thestar.com/images/5e/27/3e3471b54cdabf2106ea13140ee6.jpg
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/cityhallpolitics/article/1228366--scarborough-shooting-mayor-rob-ford-says-gang-members-should-leave-the-city

Now Rob Ford should sit on their face and fart on them when they are caught!

It's not hard to picture what he was like as a kid. It's the same routine today, except instead of calling on Mommy he now calls on Ottawan McGuinty and Calgarian Harper for help. Like they care. If the gangs leave TO, where does he want them to go to? Obviously his pals won't want them in Ottawa or Calgary either.

Would a taxpayer-funded lifetime vacation in the Caribbean be enough incentive for the [delete] to leave?

If so, what's to be done with others who take their place, expecting a similar payoff?

The gangstas should move into the vicinity of his [snip] vacation cottage to really turn the screws on him. :lol:

[congeetime]

I think the more realistic approach would be to have professional and well off people in the black community approach the troubled youth and teach them the thug life is wrong and mabe they will learn.

The sad part is, there are many programs that target youth when they're young. I think what the city needs are more after school activities and more jobs for the youth. More sports & more jobs = less time on the streets.

[Abel4Life]

Bring back Project Marvel!

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/12/13/country-wide-project-marvel-police-raid-involving-900-officers-spured-by-probe-of-two-toronto-street-gangs-bill-blair/

[cheapmeister]

True, cause the parents are crap. If they had good parents, none of this would happen but the parents are crap!

[neutral]

Rob Ford wants the gang members to leave the city:
http://i.thestar.com/images/5e/27/3e3471b54cdabf2106ea13140ee6.jpg
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/cityhallpolitics/article/1228366--scarborough-shooting-mayor-rob-ford-says-gang-members-should-leave-the-city

Now Rob Ford should sit on their face and fart on them when they are caught!
CTFU... I think that would actually work.

[wwedx]

Jamaicans or black people are not the problem.
The problem is thugs.
Reading some of the things here make me think some of you are very very stupid

[webdoctors]

the thing is well off people move away from these areas, how do you get the ppl who lived there but make a better life for themselves to stay in the neighborhood?

[cheapmeister]

Jamaicans or black people are not the problem.
The problem is thugs.
Reading some of the things here make me think some of you are very very stupid

But the shooters are of what said race? Well we know what race they are of so why is it up to police to solve the problems? Why the gov't? It is the problem of the said community to solve their problems. If they complain of racism from the police force, then they must police themselves. The parents are not responsible for their kids. The parents are not raising their kids properly so it becomes the police's problems? This has to change. You are are the parent, so raise your kids inappropriately.

[neutral]

But the shooters are of what said race? Well we know what race they are of so why is it up to police to solve the problems? Why the gov't? It is the problem of the said community to solve their problems. If they complain of racism from the police force, then they must police themselves. The parents are not responsible for their kids. The parents are not raising their kids properly so it becomes the police's problems? This has to change. You are are the parent, so raise your kids inappropriately.

Hilarious. Yet if the problem were of so called 'real Canadians', all resources would be used to tackle the problem. But we have dimwits who would rather claim it's their problem and throw around racial slurs, and think they are somehow 'telling it like it is'.

[cheapmeister]

Hilarious. Yet if the problem were of so called 'real Canadians', all resources would be used to tackle the problem. But we have dimwits who would rather claim it's their problem and throw around racial slurs, and think they are somehow 'telling it like it is'.

So it is the police that are suppose to raise these troubled youth? Do you know how the police operate? They do not stop crime before happening! If the parents cannot raise their kids properly, then how can you expect the police and society to raise the kids properly? The kids will be raise in the police station or jail properly? LOL! NO! That will be racial discrimination!

[neutral]

So it is the police that are suppose to raise these troubled youth? Do you know how the police operate? They do not stop crime before happening! If the parents cannot raise their kids properly, then how can you expect the police and society to raise the kids properly? The kids will be raise in the police station or jail properly? LOL! NO! That will be racial discrimination!

Where did I say anything about the police? You can't even have a reasonable exchange with a lot you. Go read what you can find on the comments sections of Toronto newspapers, and you can see a big part of what only contributes to the problem. It's the marginalization which makes this even worse. If there are going to be no real attempts to help, but just offer platitudes, racist rants or Nazi type 'solutions', then frankly we as a society deserve to be caught in the crossfire. It's our problem even if we want to say it's those people.

[kamilio]

There are millions of people in the GTA and people here are panicking over a handful of shootings.

We live in a capitalist society where you have millionaires on one block and welfare recipients a few minute drive away. There's also the statistical component of evilness. A very small percentage of our population (no matter the race) is born with mental deficiencies and is predisposed to crime.

Anywho, a few shootings in a city of millions doesn't phase me one bit. I would walk by that housing complex today with no worries.

The biggest killer of youth in the GTA isnt gun violence...it is automobile accidents!!!

[cheapmeister]

Where did I say anything about the police? You can't even have a reasonable exchange with a lot you. Go read what you can find on the comments sections of Toronto newspapers, and you can see a big part of what only contributes to the problem. It's the marginalization which makes this even worse. If there are going to be no real attempts to help, but just offer platitudes, racist rants or Nazi type 'solutions', then frankly we as a society deserve to be caught in the crossfire. It's our problem even if we want to say it's those people.


So what will solve the problem then? The gov't has been funding programs for years. And the shooting still happened. So what should the gov't and police do to make the problem go away?

[neutral]

So what will solve the problem then? The gov't has been funding programs for years. And the shooting still happened. So what should the gov't and police do to make the problem go away?

Well realistically we are talking about a reduction in crime. I'd also say those programs work. Ford for instance turned down fed money that would have gone towards combating this very problem. Ultimately, not having communities facing scorn, discrimination, and outright hatred, but having real opportunity for better inclusion in the rest of society will help better this problem. Perhaps we need programs for those who harbor so much hate? I think that would go quite a ways actually. Just too many people who take great joy in being able to sound off in this way. You can only imagine how these people are as educators, police, co workers, bosses, lawyers, judges, etc etc.

[BoogieWilliams]

So what will solve the problem then? The gov't has been funding programs for years. And the shooting still happened. So what should the gov't and police do to make the problem go away?

Nothing will solve the problem, we live in a capitalist society, where anyone can do as they please. You can be a thug, you can sell drugs, you can be a menace anything you want because the consequences of doing any of those things aren't tough enough. The only way this stops is if you cut the head of whoever wants to be a thug and shoot out a place. Why don't you see gangsters and thugs in places like Saudi Arabia. Their whole population knows very well that a thief, a murder will get their head cut as soon as they get caught. If you want to keep a safer society then fear of the consequences of your wrong doings is the ultimate weapon that a government can use towards its society.

[neutral]

Continuing his tough talk in response to the Scarborough shooting that killed two and injured 23, Mayor Rob Ford called Wednesday for gang members to leave the city.

Ford also said he will meet with Premier Dalton McGuinty on Monday to ask for more money for policing, not for social programs.


“It just tore my heart apart. And I just thought, this is not the city that we live in, this is — I was mad. More than upset, I was mad. I said, ‘Enough’s enough.’ I’m lookin’ around, and I said, ‘I’m not gonna sit here, I’m gonna be proactive.’ I talked to the premier, got a hold of the premier, called the prime minister’s office, I said, ‘I want meetings. I want something to be done.’ I want these people out of the city. And I’m not going to stop. Not put ’em in jail, then come back and you can live in the city. No. I want ’em out of the city. Go somewhere else. I don’t want ’em living in the city anymore,” Ford said.


McGuinty’s government announced last year that it was giving another $10 million to TAVIS over two years, bringing the total to about $35 million since 2006. McGuinty suggested Tuesday that expiring funding for programs in Toronto’s 13 “priority neighbourhoods” could now be extended, but Ford indicated Wednesday that he is not interested in the offer.

“I don’t really believe that handing out free money is a solution,” Ford said.


Ford repeated his mantra that “the best social program is a job.” He also noted that council last week approved $16 million in grants to community groups — while declining to say that he was the only member of council to vote against the grants.

In June, he cast a solo vote against accepting federal money to extend a gang prevention program. That program, which does not cost the city money, is designed to help young people considered at risk of gang involvement transition into legitimate employment.


Ford’s outspoken ally Councillor Giorgio Mammoliti said Wednesday that he will ask council in the fall to impose a 10 p.m. curfew for anyone 14 and younger unless they are accompanied by a parent or guardian.

A curfew, Mammoliti said, would keep young teens away from “gangbangers out recruiting at 2 a.m.” It would also penalize “irresponsible parents,” he said, who would face sanctions ranging from a fine to a call from Children’s Aid.

Leadership.:facepalm:

[cheapmeister]

If those families cannot lead their own families, how can the gov't of all peeps?

[cheapmeister]

I was responding to this:
The shooter only hit one of his intended victims who is only injured.

This victim then, pulled out his gun and started shooting any and everywhere in self-defence. It's believed to be a war between the Galloway Boyz and the Malvern Krew.

The response was in self defense, if true. But you'd think it would be common sense that more guns and more people shooting is only going to create a more dangerous situation.

Can someone explain the Galloway boyz and the Malvern Krew?

[congeetime]

I was responding to this:
The shooter only hit one of his intended victims who is only injured.

This victim then, pulled out his gun and started shooting any and everywhere in self-defence. It's believed to be a war between the Galloway Boyz and the Malvern Krew.

The response was in self defense, if true. But you'd think it would be common sense that more guns and more people shooting is only going to create a more dangerous situation.

Victim probably had a semi auto. Injured + trigger happy + mass amounts of people around = bad news.

[wwedx]

But the shooters are of what said race? Well we know what race they are of so why is it up to police to solve the problems? Why the gov't? It is the problem of the said community to solve their problems. If they complain of racism from the police force, then they must police themselves. The parents are not responsible for their kids. The parents are not raising their kids properly so it becomes the police's problems? This has to change. You are are the parent, so raise your kids inappropriately.
Why does it matter what race the shooter was? I'm pretty sure they didn't find the guy so how would you know?

[cheapmeister]

Why does it matter what race the shooter was?

not as stupid as the ones that shot up 22 peeps at a bbq and killed 2 of them. Now who is the bigger dummy?

Why should society not know the race of the shooter? Why should it be such a secret? We all saw the carnage on tv and how it ruins peeps lives. Police cannot stop these violent acts. Instead it is the community that has to stop them from these actions and steer them in the right direction.

[wwedx]

I might be stupid, but not as stupid as the ones that shot up 22 peeps at a bbq and killed 2 of them. Now who is the bigger dummy?

Your stupid but you don't see me thinking your whole race is stupid. Who is the dummy now?

[cheapmeister]

Your stupid but you don't see me thinking your whole race is stupid. Who is the dummy now?

But I never said a whole race is stupid.

[Simaahoy]

I might be stupid, but not as stupid as the ones that shot up 22 peeps at a bbq and killed 2 of them. Now who is the bigger dummy?

Why should society not know the race of the shooter? Why should it be such a secret? We all saw the carnage on tv and how it ruins peeps lives. Police cannot stop these violent acts. Instead it is the community that has to stop them from these actions and steer them in the right direction.

When to rival gangs are trying to kill each other, the last thing on there minds is making sure bystanders would not get shot. They don't care about themselves, their family why would they care as long as they get their target? That is how gangs/criminals act, there's nothing stupid about this.

[cheapmeister]

When to rival gangs are trying to kill each other, the last thing on there minds is making sure bystanders would not get shot. They don't care about themselves, their family why would they care as long as they get their target? That is how gangs/criminals act, there's nothing stupid about this.


They are truly heartless devils then if they don't give a ***** about the innocent and the baby they shot up.

[Simaahoy]

They are truly heartless devils then if they don't give a ***** about the innocent and the baby they shot up.

Yep, they're. A good example would be the Eatons shooting, the shooter obviously knew he was in a jam packed mall and yet decided to spray bullets in the food court.:confused: I hope people who actually go to that festival (carbina?) stay safe this year.

[Simaahoy]

Continuing his tough talk in response to the Scarborough shooting that killed two and injured 23, Mayor Rob Ford called Wednesday for gang members to leave the city.

Ford also said he will meet with Premier Dalton McGuinty on Monday to ask for more money for policing, not for social programs.

Speaking to CP24’s Stephen LeDrew, Ford said his visit to the crime scene affected him deeply.

“It just tore my heart apart. And I just thought, this is not the city that we live in, this is — I was mad. More than upset, I was mad. I said, ‘Enough’s enough.’ I’m lookin’ around, and I said, ‘I’m not gonna sit here, I’m gonna be proactive.’ I talked to the premier, got a hold of the premier, called the prime minister’s office, I said, ‘I want meetings. I want something to be done.’ I want these people out of the city. And I’m not going to stop. Not put ’em in jail, then come back and you can live in the city. No. I want ’em out of the city. Go somewhere else. I don’t want ’em living in the city anymore,” Ford said.

He returned to the point later in the interview. “We have to send a message. Three years for possession of a handgun? That’s nonsense. You should do some serious hard time, and not come back here. Once you come out, out of jail, get out of the city. Go somewhere else,” he said.

How will shipping them out Toronto will help? Other cities are have their own problems (Ottawa already have more shooting cases than last year). I would say if they are PR, deport them right away back to where-ever they have came from ...as a starting point. Also, they need to fix the bail system up and sentences should be stricter.

[jaysfan4life]

I'm willing to bet my next pay cheque the person(s) responsible was born a Canadian...

[wwedx]

How will shipping them out Toronto will help? Other cities are have their own problems (Ottawa already have more shooting cases than last year). I would say if they are PR, deport them right away back to where-ever they have came from ...as a starting point. Also, they need to fix the bail system up and sentences should be stricter.

I guess he thinks it's just one less criminal in the city

[wilsonlam97]

I'm willing to bet my next pay cheque the person(s) responsible was born a Canadian...

ofc, they can think they can churn out and support more then 2 kids when people with 6 figure salaries struggle with 2 kids to begin with.

[wilsonlam97]

Can someone explain the Galloway boyz and the Malvern Krew?

The malvern krew is fragmented I believe. They're id1ots. lol can't even run a gang. the same applies to galloway boyz.

[wilsonlam97]

I'm betting you that some "innocent" people that were at that party know exactly who the shooter was and the whole story. They just don't want to "snake" their friends.

[wilsonlam97]

Caribanna is in 2 weeks - who wants to bet $10 there is going to be more shootings?

Why not right, every Caribanna always ends up with someone getting shot year after year.

I want to bet for yes. Who on RFD will bet for no? lol

it's seemingly unlikely for a shooting to not happen at caribana.

[wilsonlam97]

There are many respected "black" musicians today to look up to unfortunately, a lot of them are overlooked and completely shunned out by youths today. I never lived in that era but i'm pretty sure when jimi hendrix or michael jackson became mainstream, people started to pick up a guitar or wanted dance lessons. I'm guessing a majority of people wanted to be a rock star or pop star back then. Now we have people inspiring to be a rapper which isn't bad but unfortunately, a lot of these youth today think that the only way to reach this goal is to pick up a gun and deal drugs.

Tracy Morgan isn't a musician but he's a pretty funny man. He would be a decent role model.

[wilsonlam97]

I respectfully disagree. Statistically speaking, these shootings in the GTA do appear to have a racial element to them like it or not.


x2. I don't think it's very controversial to say that this is largely a problem with the black community. Most in that community would probably agree.


This seems to be the classic red herring. There's likely is correlation with race. Some people will disagree. yadayada.

The race angle only matters to racists. It's got nothing to do with the cause or possible solution.

There's definitely a correlation but nobody can say it's a problem that is related to a race otherwise it is racism. We could closely discuss it by just pointing out the correlation.

[Abel4Life]

There's definitely a correlation but nobody can say it's a problem that is related to a race otherwise it is racism. We could closely discuss it by just pointing out the correlation.

So are insurance companies 'discriminatory' and 'stereotyping' because they charge old people more for medical or life insurance?

I remember a university course I took called 'Social Inequality in Canada'. It did point out statistics correlating race with post-secondary education and crime from a textbook view. I wouldn't call the book racist neither.

http://www.amazon.ca/Social-Inequality-Canada-Patterns-Problems/dp/0131984756/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1342677833&sr=8-1

[jaysfan4life]

The malvern krew is fragmented I believe. They're id1ots. lol can't even run a gang. the same applies to galloway boyz.

There is always another generation to carry the torch. Sons and little brothers.

[iEyeCaptain]

How do you get a gang member to "get out" of the city?

Offer him a 3 bedroom home in Muskoka?

[arclite]

This reminds me of a Star Trek DS9 episode where they had these "Sactuary Districts" in major cities in the United States. Essentially if you were mentally ill, violent, or unemployed you would end up in such a place. The districts were isolated from the rest of the country creating an even larger rich/poor divide. In the end they realize it was a mistake to implement and tore it down and allowed the residents to re-integrate to society.

Maybe they should have these isolated districts just for gangs and let them shoot themselves to extinction. Those things have no place in society and should be isolated from everyone else.

[vero95]

How do you get a gang member to "get out" of the city?

Offer him a 3 bedroom home in Muskoka?

never heard of restraining orders?

[vero95]

How will shipping them out Toronto will help? Other cities are have their own problems (Ottawa already have more shooting cases than last year). I would say if they are PR, deport them right away back to where-ever they have came from ...as a starting point. Also, they need to fix the bail system up and sentences should be stricter.

forcing them to move into a different social environment can have a positive effect, no?

[flashy_mcflash]

forcing them to move into a different social environment can have a positive effect, no?

Forcing people to do things rarely has a positive effect, especially when it's a nonspecific 'different social environment'. Where, with whom, doing what?



never heard of restraining orders?


ahahahaha yes the city should file restraining orders against gangs ahahahaha

[vero95]

Forcing people to do things rarely has a positive effect, especially when it's a nonspecific 'different social environment'. Where, with whom, doing what?


we should then stop forcing them to live in jails :facepalm:





ahahahaha yes the city should file restraining orders against gangs ahahahaha

yeah, buddy. you probably never heard that sex offenders already have restraining orders

[Forhad]

These people have some serious mental issues! No sane human being can so such a thing!

[stealth]

:facepalm:
There's definitely a correlation but nobody can say it's a problem that is related to a race otherwise it is racism. We could closely discuss it by just pointing out the correlation.

people are going to belive theres a racial component to these crimes until someone can put up the stats that show that gun crime, for example is just as prevalent across all races within the same socioeconomic group.
Noone seems to have done that yet, and my hunch is, they cant.

If you look at all ppl within the same level of poverty/circumstances, and certain behaviours/incidents are not equally ditributed on a per capita basis, you must accept that there is a racial component to THESE crimes.

I dont get the "sweeping under carpet" attititude alot of ppl seem to have about talking about this.
Gun crime is a cancer on the community. If a cancer was killing the young people in my community, Id want to know about it and try to figure out how to solve it, even if it means a bit of shame in the short term. Instead we read about how noone is talking, and the Star article where the woman who organized the party and witnessed someone die on her sofa, looks bitterly at police as they investigate her home and neighborhood. Ya...cuz it s the polices fault :confused:

[gilboman]

forcing them to move into a different social environment can have a positive effect, no?

lol ... what??? Yes, moving a tumour from one area to another area is a positive affect:facepalm:

gun laws and all this stupid whining about "toughning" punishment is just going at the symptom and not at the cause. Lack of jobs prospects, productive paths to a future, underlying social problems are much bigger contributors to violence and gang activity..not that existing laws are not tough enough.

People don't join gangs or shoot at other people because they think "oh, laws arent that tough, I'll just goto jail for 5/10 years".. any sane person who have visions of a life would not consider going to jail even for a day , let alone years.

It's not like some magic amount of jail time or punishment will make people decide to not join gang/shoot.

But of course, it's easy to cry and say/make tougher laws that superficially appear to treat the symptom rather than cause (cutbacks, lack of social programs and outreach and education and funding to get people onto path of normal life)

It's like treating a tumour or gushing wound with morphine lol

[stealth]

lol ... what???

I suppose he means the idea behind the "bussing" experiment in the US in the 70's.... that failed miserably.

[Superboot]

lol ... what??? Yes, moving a tumour from one area to another area is a positive affect:facepalm:

gun laws and all this stupid whining about "toughning" punishment is just going at the symptom and not at the cause. Lack of jobs prospects, productive paths to a future, underlying social problems are much bigger contributors to violence and gang activity..not that existing laws are not tough enough.

People don't join gangs or shoot at other people because they think "oh, laws arent that tough, I'll just goto jail for 5/10 years".. any sane person who have visions of a life would not consider going to jail even for a day , let alone years.

It's not like some magic amount of jail time or punishment will make people decide to not join gang/shoot.

But of course, it's easy to cry and say/make tougher laws that superficially appear to treat the symptom rather than cause (cutbacks, lack of social programs and outreach and education and funding to get people onto path of normal life)

It's like treating a tumour or gushing wound with morphine lol

+1, its like covering up the issue by telling all the normal citizens that there will be a increase in jail time/punishment for the crimes but in reality the criminals could care less.

[stealth]

+1, its like covering up the issue by telling all the normal citizens that there will be a increase in jail time/punishment for the crimes but in reality the criminals could care less.

in other words, like a gun "ban"? :)

[MaximDude]

Less than 24 hours after the Danzig shootings, Mr. Clayton Wright gets shot dead:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/1228243--man-shot-at-gta-soccer-field-identified-as-clayton-wright

And now today another male shot dead in a school yard:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/07/19/toronto-lawrence-shooting-homicide.html

You would think after that huge incident that murders would go down instead of up. :confused:

[Superboot]

in other words, like a gun "ban"? :)

Well atleast the gun ban would help in some areas even if very little lol

[Superboot]

Less than 24 hours after the Danzig shootings, Mr. Clayton Wright gets shot dead:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/1228243--man-shot-at-gta-soccer-field-identified-as-clayton-wright

And now today another male shot dead in a school yard:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/07/19/toronto-lawrence-shooting-homicide.html

You would think after that huge incident that murders would go down instead of up. :confused:

Theres been a death for every day since Monday, those thugs are on a roll...

[wwedx]

I'm betting you that some "innocent" people that were at that party know exactly who the shooter was and the whole story. They just don't want to "snake" their friends.

That's exactly what happened.

[Simaahoy]

Toronto’s latest murder victim was at Monday’s barbecue party when gunfire erupted, killing two people and wounded 23 others, QMI Agency has learned.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/07/19/20003651.html


TORONTO - Toronto’s latest murder victim was at Monday’s barbecue party when gunfire erupted, killing two people and wounded 23 others, QMI Agency has learned.

The same source says the mass shooting - the worst incident of gun violence in the city’s history - was definitely gang-related.

“The retaliation has started,” crime victim advocate Kemi Omololu-Olunloyo said just hours after the body of Daniel Davis, 27, was identified as Toronto’s 30th murder victim of the year by friends and relatives at the scene of a west-end schoolyard.

Omololu-Olunloyo, who is well connected to Toronto’s black community, was told of the stunning turn of events by a family member of someone who was at the party with the 27-year-old found dead in Lawrence Heights early Thursday.

Although the victim, also known as “Snoop,” was gunned down on the opposite side of the city, she is convinced his slaying is connected to the deadly shootout in the city’s east end just over 48 hours earlier.

Toronto Police could not immediately confirm or deny that Davis was at the public housing complex on Monday.




“As far as I know this guy, he’s a very good person,” said one elderly woman described as a mother-figure to the victim.

Wishing to remain unnamed, she said she had dinner with Davis on Wednesday night.

“He grew up in the neighbourhood, he went to school together with my kids,” she said, tears pooling in her eyes.

“Everybody knows him as a handsome, kind, quiet person,” she said. “He don’t make trouble, he was never into a gang.”

An elderly man named Tony said he knew the victim for 20 years.

“He doesn’t drink, he doesn’t smoke, I’m 100% sure he was not in any gang,” he said.

Omololu-Olunloyo has spent years advocating for murder victims and their families, while urging people to break the silence so prevalent after shootings by using Crime Stoppers.

Omololu-Olunloyo has forwarded tips to the police in the past that have directly led to the solving of murders.

On Wednesday, after Clayton Wright, 42, was gunned down in her Jane-Eglinton neighbourhood, she e-mailed Toronto police Chief Bill Blair and a handful of other officers warning of “imminent threats” to numerous people in Scarborough.

“I’ve been contacted by four separate people telling me they have been threatened,” Omololu-Olunloyo said.

“You will be sprayed and rinsed this weekend if you talk to police,” she said, quoting an e-mail sent to one of those people.

“I will kill your family if you snitch,” another person was warned.

Omololu-Olunloyo said one message claimed “we are the new Galloway Boys,” which she believes to be an indication Monday’s mass shooting was gang-related.

The Galloway Boys, an east-end Toronto gang, were virtually dismantled by police with Project Pathfinder in 2007.

But some media reports suggest Monday’s mass shooting may have been the result of a power struggle between the few older gang members who remained on the street and new members.

While Omololu-Olunloyo doubts the shooting was an intra-gang battle, she has yet to hear any other street gangs mentioned, and said the violence appears to have been fueled by social media.

Omololu-Olunloyo said young black men often post rap videos online, spouting off against rivals, and she believes that is what may have sparked Monday’s violence.

- with files from Maryam Shah

This is a gang war imo...

[LaserEnvy]

Sounds like this Omololu guy is living on borrowed time (provided these gang members actually know how to read).

[vero95]

lol ... what??? Yes, moving a tumour from one area to another area is a positive affect:facepalm:

It's like treating a tumour or gushing wound with morphine lol

yes, you can move tomour from one area to another and make it die. that's what happens when you remove it surgically
if a tumour needs right environment to grow you can stop it by changing that environment
stop laughing

[flashy_mcflash]

Sounds like this Omololu guy is living on borrowed time (provided these gang members actually know how to read).

She's a lady and I think if she was going to get targeted she would've been murdered already. I don't know why she's so 'connected' or why she always seems to pop up in these stories though.

[flashy_mcflash]

yes, you can move tomour from one area to another and make it die. that's what happens when you remove it surgically
if a tumour needs right environment to grow you can stop it by changing that environment
stop laughing

ahahahaha wow where did you get your medical degree? This is really what you think happens to tumors?

[neutral]

yes, you can move tomour from one area to another and make it die. that's what happens when you remove it surgically
if a tumour needs right environment to grow you can stop it by changing that environment
stop laughing

He's right. Send em to Mississauga.;)

[vero95]

ahahahaha wow where did you get your medical degree? This is really what you think happens to tumors?

so what happens to tumour that you remove from your body, flashy?

[neutral]

so what happens to tumour that you remove from your body, flashy?

It starts posting on RFD about subways everywhere.

[15-20_God]

It starts posting on RFD about subways everywhere.

haha!

[vero95]

It starts posting on RFD about subways everywhere.

do not mention the word and no one will call you a tumour :facepalm:

[flashy_mcflash]

so what happens to tumour that you remove from your body, flashy?

LMAO that tumour is REMOVED, period. Not moved to some other part of my body. Your analogy is beyond weak.

[Superboot]

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/19/lawrence-heights-shooting-victim-was-at-danzig-party-source-says

Its all linked in a giant gang war. Im glad im heading to the cottage tommorw, alteast for the weekend lol

[vero95]

LMAO that tumour is REMOVED, period. Not moved to some other part of my body. Your analogy is beyond weak.

it was not my analogy
in other words, you claim restraining orders do not make sense then :facepalm:

[flashy_mcflash]

it was not my analogy
in other words, you claim restraining orders do not make sense then :facepalm:

Not for entire gangs, no. Keep coming up with 'solutions' though, it's hilarious. Like watching a special needs kid doing a puzzle.

[vero95]

Not for entire gangs, no. Keep coming up with 'solutions' though, it's hilarious. Like watching a special needs kid doing a puzzle.

you understand that we are not talking about thousands of people, don't you?

[flashy_mcflash]

you understand that we are not talking about thousands of people, don't you?

What about hundreds, or even dozens. When has a restraining order against gangs ever been tried successfully?

Look at you, curing cancer and Toronto's gang problem, all in one thread.

[yucksta]

Behind all of these gangs are very lucrative industries, from which a number of very powerful and influential people outside of these communities infested by gangs also profit from. The bloody disputes are reflective of what's at stake.

It's just like wars between nations, wars between gangs are no different.

All the builders of empires and colonialists were gangsters. We're still living off their spoils.

[wilsonlam97]

As long as they're killing their own people (gang members) I don't have sympathy for them.

[olssy]

But the shooters are of what said race? Well we know what race they are of so why is it up to police to solve the problems? Why the gov't? It is the problem of the said community to solve their problems. If they complain of racism from the police force, then they must police themselves. The parents are not responsible for their kids. The parents are not raising their kids properly so it becomes the police's problems? This has to change. You are are the parent, so raise your kids inappropriately.


So what will solve the problem then? The gov't has been funding programs for years. And the shooting still happened. So what should the gov't and police do to make the problem go away?


:facepalm:

people are going to belive theres a racial component to these crimes until someone can put up the stats that show that gun crime, for example is just as prevalent across all races within the same socioeconomic group.
Noone seems to have done that yet, and my hunch is, they cant.

If you look at all ppl within the same level of poverty/circumstances, and certain behaviours/incidents are not equally ditributed on a per capita basis, you must accept that there is a racial component to THESE crimes.

I dont get the "sweeping under carpet" attititude alot of ppl seem to have about talking about this.
Gun crime is a cancer on the community. If a cancer was killing the young people in my community, Id want to know about it and try to figure out how to solve it, even if it means a bit of shame in the short term. Instead we read about how noone is talking, and the Star article where the woman who organized the party and witnessed someone die on her sofa, looks bitterly at police as they investigate her home and neighborhood. Ya...cuz it s the polices fault :confused:

Here's a link that cites three studies that seem to point to a correlation between socioeconomic levels of certain areas and crime rates:
http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/rs/rep-rap/2006/rr06_6/p0.html
Of course statistics can be manipulated and seeing how most minorities live in lower socioeconomic areas you can see why some people might think race is the cause.

[mbg]

Can someone explain the Galloway boyz and the Malvern Krew?

One of the Toronto Star's crime reporters wrote a good book on this topic:


This book tells the story of the Galloway Boys, who as young teens banded together in an urban-blighted area of Toronto's east end to sell drugs and run guns. They were led by Tyshan Riley, born into one of the toughest neighborhoods in Canada and raised by an often absent and erratic mother. He learned his lessons on the streets-how to sell drugs, how to steal--and used violence to get the money, sex and respect that he lived for.

The area known as Galloway is home to 186 hectares of public housing. Crossing bridges is the only route into the area. It created a sense of isolation and for those who lived there a sense of mistrust of anyone from the outside. The area was a fertile ground for the growth of gangs--and as well for the drug dealers, prostitutes and *****s who survived along a major east-west thoroughfare leading in and out of Toronto's downtown core. And while the Galloway Boys lay claim to their turf, farther to the north the Malvern Crew was laying claim to theirs. The war was inevitable and it would claim ten casualties, including the innocent.

book: http://www.amazon.ca/Bad-Seeds-Torontos-Galloway-Street/dp/0470840609

[cheapmeister]

Here's a link that cites three studies that seem to point to a correlation between socioeconomic levels of certain areas and crime rates:
http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/rs/rep-rap/2006/rr06_6/p0.html
Of course statistics can be manipulated and seeing how most minorities live in lower socioeconomic areas you can see why some people might think race is the cause.

I don't think race is the main cause. However race has something to do with this. Look at rap music, and how the rappers dress, and portray the gangsta lifestyle. This is what I mean when I say we all know the race of the shooters. Location, socioeconomic class also will tell us what race the shooters are. In Australia majority of criminals locked up in prison are not black, they are aboriginal. The aboriginals are of a lower socioeconomic class in Australia and thus, the ones who are incarcerated the most. In the USA the same can be said of blacks. This proves it is not a race specific issue, but rather of socioeconomic class.

[cheapmeister]

Cops charge a shooter:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1229038--danzig-shooting-19-year-old-charged-with-reckless-discharge-of-a-firearm


Police have arrested and charged a 19-year-old man in connection with Monday night’s shootings on Danzig St. in Scarborough.

Nahom Tsegazab of Toronto remains in custody, charged with reckless discharge of a firearm.

The shootings at about 10:40 Monday night near Lawrence Ave. E. and Morningside Ave. left two people dead and more than 20 with gunshot wounds.

[transitguy1]

time to close this thread.

until the next shooting?

[ClubberLang]

I don't think race is the main cause. However race has something to do with this. Look at rap music, and how the rappers dress, and portray the gangsta lifestyle. This is what I mean when I say we all know the race of the shooters. Location, socioeconomic class also will tell us what race the shooters are. In Australia majority of criminals locked up in prison are not black, they are aboriginal. The aboriginals are of a lower socioeconomic class in Australia and thus, the ones who are incarcerated the most. In the USA the same can be said of blacks. This proves it is not a race specific issue, but rather of socioeconomic class.

Like I said before. If there is to be any discussion of a "community" when analysing these murders than the "community" is very exclusive. We are talking about Clifford Olson, Robert Picton, Paul Bernardo and Russel Williams.

Someone who listened to the same music, lived in the same neighbourhood,wore the same type of clothes and had the same colour skin would still have absolutely nothing in common with a cold blooded killer that was worth mentioning.

[bullionaire]

Not for entire gangs, no. Keep coming up with 'solutions' though, it's hilarious. Like watching a special needs kid doing a puzzle.

So you know what it's like seeing "Canadians" who can't speak a word of English.

[congeetime]

time to close this thread.

until the next shooting?

Still need to find the other shooter / shooters that did the killing.
Anywho, P.reign(former gang member that lived in galloway) is doing a huge march through galloway with "Celebrity" guest. Rumour is, drake is gonna be there.
http://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/wrhmp/toronto_rappers_organizing_a_huge_march_through/

[arclite]

Still need to find the other shooter / shooters that did the killing.
Anywho, P.reign(former gang member that lived in galloway) is doing a huge march through galloway with "Celebrity" guest. Rumour is, drake is gonna be there.
http://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/wrhmp/toronto_rappers_organizing_a_huge_march_through/

more shootings as a result

[vero95]

What about hundreds, or even dozens. When has a restraining order against gangs ever been tried successfully?

Look at you, curing cancer and Toronto's gang problem, all in one thread.

removing leaders will often be enough to dissolve a gang. you do not need to give restraining orders to all of them

[rrt2008]

The black community in Toronto and Canada has a long and proud history. They worked hard and tried to advance themselves in society just like any other Canadian. They obeyed the laws and contributed greatly to this country, just like countless others from many nations did. The problems didn't start until an influx of new arrivals from a certain Carribean nation arrived en mass

[stealth]

Here's a link that cites three studies that seem to point to a correlation between socioeconomic levels of certain areas and crime rates:
http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/rs/rep-rap/2006/rr06_6/p0.html
Of course statistics can be manipulated and seeing how most minorities live in lower socioeconomic areas you can see why some people might think race is the cause.

I don't thnk youve read your own article very well...it does strongly point out that aboriginal ppl have "greater vulnerability" for incidences of violent crime....sounds like a racial component to me,otherwise why even mention them?

[kamilio]

dfdf

[kamilio]

The black community in Toronto and Canada has a long and proud history. They worked hard and tried to advance themselves in society just like any other Canadian. They obeyed the laws and contributed greatly to this country, just like countless others from many nations did. The problems didn't start until an influx of new arrivals from a certain Carribean nation arrived en mass

Grouping all black people together makes no sense. It is like grouping Italians and Germans into the same bucket and expecting them to be of the same culture and display the same type of behaviour.

[rrt2008]

Grouping all black people together makes no sense. It is like grouping Italians and Germans into the same bucket and expecting them to be of the same culture and display the same type of behaviour.
I am black. The black community for the most part are as law abiding as anyone else. It's those from a certain nation that give us blacks a bad name. Read my post again.

[Simaahoy]

Grouping all black people together makes no sense. It is like grouping Italians and Germans into the same bucket and expecting them to be of the same culture and display the same type of behaviour.

Yep, the guy who got arrested is of Ethiopian background. Jamacians don't like Ethiopians or Somalis and they often fight against each other , I could see this as 'you don't belong here, type of confrontation.

[wilsonlam97]

The black community in Toronto and Canada has a long and proud history. They worked hard and tried to advance themselves in society just like any other Canadian. They obeyed the laws and contributed greatly to this country, just like countless others from many nations did. The problems didn't start until an influx of new arrivals from a certain Carribean nation arrived en mass

I agree.

[rdx]

The black community in Toronto and Canada has a long and proud history. They worked hard and tried to advance themselves in society just like any other Canadian. They obeyed the laws and contributed greatly to this country, just like countless others from many nations did. The problems didn't start until an influx of new arrivals from a certain Carribean nation arrived en mass

I guess the problem is our immigration law and human rights again to let them in.

[ClubberLang]

I am black. The black community for the most part are as law abiding as anyone else. It's those from a certain nation that give us blacks a bad name. Read my post again.


Congratulations on being black. I'm black too :facepalm: When did you get your initiation into the club?

***** "giving us a bad name". This killer has nothing to do with me. Anyone that takes the position that his actions are a reflection on me is a racist.

I didn't ask white people to get up and renounce Russell Williams when he raped, tortured and killed innocent women. I don't think white men stopped and said "he gives us a bad name".

[wilsonlam97]

Congratulations on being black. I'm black too :facepalm: When did you get your initiation into the club?

***** "giving us a bad name". This killer has nothing to do with me. Anyone that takes the position that his actions are a reflection on me is a racist.

I didn't ask white people to get up and renounce Russell Williams when he raped, tortured and killed innocent women. I don't think white men stopped and said "he gives us a bad name".

Your a cool Tracy Morgan.

[boywonder416]

Video: Black community demands action after Toronto shooting


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/news-video/video-black-community-demands-action-after-toronto-shootings/article4428352/?from=4428787

[wilsonlam97]

Video: Black community demands action after Toronto shooting


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/news-video/video-black-community-demands-action-after-toronto-shootings/article4428352/?from=4428787

They could demand all they want but they have to cooperate with police instead of using the law to keep their secrecy.

[ClubberLang]

They could demand all they want but they have to cooperate with police instead of using the law to keep their secrecy.

Who the hell is the "they" you are referring to?

That panel included Provincial MPP and former Speaker of the Ontario Legislature Alvin Curling.

Human Rights Lawyer Margaret Parsons

Ken Jeffers Manager, Access and Diversity Parks Forestry and Recreation for the City of Toronto

Please do clarify.

[stealth]

Who the hell is the "they" you are referring to?

That panel included Provincial MPP and former Speaker of the Ontario Legislature Alvin Curling.

Human Rights Lawyer Margaret Parsons

Ken Jeffers Manager, Access and Diversity Parks Forestry and Recreation for the City of Toronto

Please do clarify.
How about the ppl at the "blocko" for starters?

[boywonder416]

Most residents in these ghettos do have a very negative and hostile attitude towards the police.

[kingofwale]

Most residents in these ghettos do have a very negative and hostile attitude towards the police.

sadly, that's the universal law in all region of this earth, regardless of race, human right, socioeconomic level (well, stages of extreme poverty).

Funny thing is... they hate when police is there, and then when this happens, they cry about how the police isn't there.

Take your pick people!!

[ClubberLang]

How about the ppl at the "blocko" for starters?

Good job with tagging in. Somehow the OP didn't seem to clarify this which is important.

Lets think through this process because people tend to give this subject of witness cooperation very shallow analysis.

Say you witness a brazen murder by a known member of a violent criminal organization that claims jurisdiction over the neighbourhood in which you live. You chose to cooperate with the police and identify the shooter. Do you think you think the cops say "thanks" and send you on your way? Nope. You are going to be called to testify in court. As a fundamental tenet of the Canadian Justice system as has defined by the Supreme Court of Canada,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._Stinchcombe the accused has the right to access all the information provided by their accuser, including their identity.

So as soon as the accused gets their disclosure. Guess what happens next? Death threats and intimidation.

So while I am sure there are many people out there who want to come forward to put this psycho in jail. We are talking about an act of incredible courage. Especially considering the ongoing lack of witness protection provided by the Toronto Police

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/10/30/witness-protection-fail

http://selwynpieters.blogspot.ca/2011/05/jordan-manners-murder-trial-and-canadas.html

http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2010/12/15/16568566.html

This "code of silence" trash that the media spouts is absolute BS by people that aren't very good at thinking critically. Stop and put yourself in someone else's shoes. There's a very real issue of personal safety that goes neglected. Cooperating witmessness are performing acts of incredible courage and social responsibility. The Government is failing to give them the protection that they deserve.

[transitguy1]

yes we have 227 million dollars for Afghanistan aid, but none for witness protection in Canada.

Sends a good message, what do you guys say?

[wilsonlam97]

Who the hell is the "they" you are referring to?

That panel included Provincial MPP and former Speaker of the Ontario Legislature Alvin Curling.

Human Rights Lawyer Margaret Parsons

Ken Jeffers Manager, Access and Diversity Parks Forestry and Recreation for the City of Toronto

Please do clarify.

By they I meant the people that were at the Danzig party. Geez.

[jaysfan4life]

Most residents in these ghettos do have a very negative and hostile attitude towards the police.

It's because the cops treat them like poopoo. I use to mountain bike in that area under cover cops only wanting to harass visible minorities.

[kingofwale]

It's because the cops treat them like poopoo. I use to mountain bike in that area under cover cops only wanting to harass visible minorities.

isn't everyone there... 'visible minorities'??? How do you define 'harass'??

[wilsonlam97]

It's because the cops treat them like poopoo. I use to mountain bike in that area under cover cops only wanting to harass visible minorities.

Was it actually harass or people just making it a difficult situation. You know there are differences right?

I know that police hate it when people ask "am I being DETAINED OFFICER?". It just shows utter disrespect and our law being taken advantage of so people don't have to cooperate with cops because they're not legally obliged to do so. You and me are from scarborough. The ghettos is a horrible place to be and the people there are horrible too.

[wilsonlam97]

Good job with tagging in. Somehow the OP didn't seem to clarify this which is important.

Lets think through this process because people tend to give this subject of witness cooperation very shallow analysis.

Say you witness a brazen murder by a known member of a violent criminal organization that claims jurisdiction over the neighbourhood in which you live. You chose to cooperate with the police and identify the shooter. Do you think you think the cops say "thanks" and send you on your way? Nope. You are going to be called to testify in court. As a fundamental tenet of the Canadian Justice system as has defined by the Supreme Court of Canada,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._Stinchcombe the accused has the right to access all the information provided by their accuser, including their identity.

So as soon as the accused gets their disclosure. Guess what happens next? Death threats and intimidation.

So while I am sure there are many people out there who want to come forward to put this psycho in jail. We are talking about an act of incredible courage. Especially considering the ongoing lack of witness protection provided by the Toronto Police

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/10/30/witness-protection-fail

http://selwynpieters.blogspot.ca/2011/05/jordan-manners-murder-trial-and-canadas.html

http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2010/12/15/16568566.html

This "code of silence" trash that the media spouts is absolute BS by people that aren't very good at thinking critically. Stop and put yourself in someone else's shoes. There's a very real issue of personal safety that goes neglected. Cooperating witmessness are performing acts of incredible courage and social responsibility. The Government is failing to give them the protection that they deserve.

Oh please. It's not hard to use CRIMESTOPPERS and SUBMIT A TIP.

Even some news reporters themselves said that the community is uncooperative. Being defensive is not going to help. We're just driving the discussion to make space for ideas. I know for a fact that if a crime were to happen somewhere like little italy, at least some people would start asking news crews if they could feed them any information. At the danzig party, there were hundreds of people and only one person in the community offered to go on TV and tell people what he knew. That tells you something eh?

[neutral]

Was it actually harass or people just making it a difficult situation. You know there are differences right?

I know that police hate it when people ask "am I being DETAINED OFFICER?". It just shows utter disrespect and our law being taken advantage of so people don't have to cooperate with cops because they're not legally obliged to do so. You and me are from scarborough. The ghettos is a horrible place to be and the people there are horrible too.
I don't know, when you see how indignant people around here become when they are 'harassed' by being given a speeding ticket, I can imagine how upset they'd be if they were intimidated, harassed and viewed as criminals on a regular basis.

[rjones416]

most people arent stupid enough to snitch on tv.

[wilsonlam97]

most people arent stupid enough to snitch on tv.

I believe it's mostly just bad parenting. The TV has less effect. It just feeds the creativity to crime though.

[ClubberLang]

Oh please. It's not hard to use CRIMESTOPPERS and SUBMIT A TIP.

Even some news reporters themselves said that the community is uncooperative. Being defensive is not going to help. We're just driving the discussion to make space for ideas.

I'm sorry that these facts have caused you this deep pain and upset your inaccurate outlook.
Crime Stoppers offers "Tips". That's it "tips". Do you think the Crown prosecutors can build an effective prosecution based on anonymous tips? :facepalm:


I know for a fact that if a crime were to happen somewhere like little italy, at least some people would start asking news crews if they could feed them any information.

Oh you know this "for a fact". Thank you for supporting this fact with the tremendous weight of your "knowledge" as opposed to completely speculating.


At the danzig party, there were hundreds of people and only one person in the community offered to go on TV and tell people what he knew. That tells you something eh?

Someone else already pointed out why telling a Journalist that you know who a killer is might put you in danger. This is not brave. It is stupid. I don't think this requires further refutation.

[LostInTruth]

I don't know, when you see how indignant people around here become when they are 'harassed' by being given a speeding ticket, I can imagine how upset they'd be if they were intimidated, harassed and viewed as criminals on a regular basis.

Without reading update to this thread I can most likely just +1 your posts lol

[wilsonlam97]

I'm sorry that these facts have caused you this deep pain and upset your inaccurate outlook.
Crime Stoppers offers "Tips". That's it "tips". Do you think the Crown prosecutors can build an effective prosecution based on anonymous tips? :facepalm:


Oh you know this "for a fact". Thank you for supporting this fact with the tremendous weight of your "knowledge" as opposed to completely speculating.


Someone else already pointed out why telling a Journalist that you know who a killer is might put you in danger. This is not brave. It is stupid. I don't think this requires further refutation.

Have they arrested all the shooters yet?

[ClubberLang]

Have they arrested all the shooters yet?

Sorry but your intellectual output in this thread has been far too low for you to get Socratic with me. You will have to come out with whatever point you are trying to make.

[BornRuff]

Open and shut case?

https://twitter.com/kieshMartin/status/224896981020049409

[wilsonlam97]

Sorry but your intellectual output in this thread has been far too low for you to get Socratic with me. You will have to come out with whatever point you are trying to make.

While I do agree with many aspects of your opinion, there are probably people out there with good information that could be put towards solving this crime. You are right that only a fool would risk their life to prove the guiltiness of the shooter. I would condone any input providing to this case being closed and solved but you simply trying to justify that there is no such possibility erks my optimism.

[jaysfan4life]

isn't everyone there... 'visible minorities'??? How do you define 'harass'??

On more than one occasion an under cover officer in a car has tried to knock me off my bike while on riding on the roadways between parking lots in morningside park.

[wisdom_kid]

Not really. I was with my friends a while back, and my friend who was driving pulled into West Hill parking lot so he can make a call. A cop car followed us into the parking lot and started to question us. The cops were pretty friendly, but they did ask us what our backgrounds were. i thought that part was pretty random. This happened a few years ago, and it was around 10pm.

[dec12]

Have they arrested all the shooters yet?

Patience, young Jedi. Ballistic testing and database look up take time.

[vero95]

Patience, young Jedi. Ballistic testing and database look up take time.

that's what McGuinty is also saying: patience
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/19/mcguinty-useless-on-gun-crime

I wonder what he meant by

I know I speak for all Ontarians when I say that while we are saddened and shocked by today's events, we will respond as we always have -- with strength, determination and a desire to work together, and work even harder, to build communities that are safe, secure and free of gun violence."
http://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2012/06/statement-by-premier-dalton-mcguinty-on-eaton-centre-shooting.html
after the Eaton Centre shooting

[Swarez99]

Little bit off topic, but I was trying to find out how many murders happened in the city over past few years and how many by Guns and couldn't find much.

So far I have
2007- 86 murders
2008- 70
2009- 61
2011- 46
2012 - 30 (so far)

Not sure how much is accurate as I am just googling, but can't find how many are done by shootings.

C

[ClubberLang]

While I do agree with many aspects of your opinion, there are probably people out there with good information that could be put towards solving this crime. You are right that only a fool would risk their life to prove the guiltiness of the shooter. I would condone any input providing to this case being closed and solved but you simply trying to justify that there is no such possibility erks my optimism.

HOw about the city of Toronto have an actual prgram for protecting witnesses? As of right now one doesn't exist.

This man was killed for testifying against his attacker.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/1176620--toronto-police-to-unveil-witness-protection-program-by-summer



Under the existing program you don't even get a police escort to and from court which is a f-ing travesty.

[ssainani]

Shame nobody shot back. In the States, there is a decent chance an armed citizen would have ended the whole thing after 4 shots or so. That is what they do to jump-up gunmen down there.

sad - but we can now say this isn't the case in todays shooting in Colorado (a state which i believe allows anyone to buy a gun without paperwork)

[elmst200]

if linear extrapolation holds true, the 2012 homicide would be 47, second lowest of recent years.

30 in 7.6 months, therefore, 12 months we'll have 30*12/7.6= 47


Little bit off topic, but I was trying to find out how many murders happened in the city over past few years and how many by Guns and couldn't find much.

So far I have
2007- 86 murders
2008- 70
2009- 61
2011- 46
2012 - 30 (so far)

Not sure how much is accurate as I am just googling, but can't find how many are done by shootings.

C

[neutral]

sad - but we can now say this isn't the case in todays shooting in Colorado (a state which i believe allows anyone to buy a gun without paperwork)

Yep, how many shootings do they have where 10, 20, 30, people are slaughtered, and if the gunmen is killed it's because he took his own life?

[brian.gerson]

sad - but we can now say this isn't the case in todays shooting in Colorado (a state which i believe allows anyone to buy a gun without paperwork)


Yep, how many shootings do they have where 10, 20, 30, people are slaughtered, and if the gunmen is killed it's because he took his own life?

You are in a McDonalds and a gunman bursts into the room and starts shooting people. There is a person in the room who has a love of firearms, is an IPSC shooter and practices every 2 weeks, expending hundreds of times more ammunition than any police officer in a year.

Question: Do you want this person to be allowed to carry a concealed weapon, so that she has a fighting chance of defending herself and saving innocent lives?

Your daughter has to walk through a dark parking lot on her way to a nighttime Philosophy class. A deranged man approaches her with a machete.

Question: Do you prefer that she be armed and has a fighting chance of not being raped and killed? Or do you prefer a dead daughter to a dead rapist?

[ssainani]

Question: Do you prefer that she be armed and has a fighting chance of not being raped and killed? Or do you prefer a dead daughter to a dead rapist?

-rolls eyes-

All I said was ... people keep saying that we are not allowed to carry weapons here and this would have prevented 22 people from being hurt last week here in Toronto. All I said was this isn't the case in 99% of times and in fact it's the person who has legal weapons doing the mass shooting (as we saw from the Colorado thing today)

More often than not it's the guy with the love of firearms pulling the trigger (in both Colorado cases at least)

[brian.gerson]

-rolls eyes-

All I said was ...

So, if I understand you correctly, most times people with concealed carry permits are not at the scenes of these extremely rare occurrences, therefore nobody should be allowed to carry a firearm and citizens should be defenceless and deserve to be slaughtered by these madmen? What about you, yourself? Do you deserve the right to defend yourself, or are you okay with being slaughtered like the poor folks in that movie theatre?

By the way, people defend themselves successfully with firearms tens of thousands of times a year in the United States and actual shooting is often not required. If you pick up the right magazines, you can read all kinds of accounts of it.

[flashy_mcflash]

By the way, people defend themselves successfully with firearms tens of thousands of times a year in the United States and actual shooting is often not required. If you pick up the right magazines, you can read all kinds of accounts of it.

Please tell me where I can buy a subscription to "Fantasy World Weekly (featuring 30% more lies!)".

[Aznsilvrboy]

The question is not whether allowing people to have guns is useful for self defense. I think it's better to look at stable societies where gun ownership and use is very restricted or prohibited and see if they have these gun related massacres. There are hardly ever any incidents like the one that just happened in Toronto/Colorado. Just look at this list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_law

When was the last time you read on the news that someone in Japan/Singapore/China/Taiwan/Korea, walked into a public place and popped a dozen people?

Relaxed gun control: Maybe effective, different for each country.
Tight gun control: Always effective.

[brian.gerson]

Well, I could start with Norway. Breivik's firearms were registered and his ownership of them was subject to even stricter laws than Canada's.

It is impossible to ban firearms effectively, in the same way that it is impossible to ban marijuana or alcohol effectively. There are literally millions of responsible firearm owners in Canada. Their activities are safer than driving a car or owning a swimming pool.

In the US, more and more states are issuing concealed carry permits, and violent crime has been decreasing the whole time.

[sprung]

Little bit off topic, but I was trying to find out how many murders happened in the city over past few years and how many by Guns and couldn't find much.

So far I have
2007- 86 murders
2008- 70
2009- 61
2011- 46
2012 - 30 (so far)

Not sure how much is accurate as I am just googling, but can't find how many are done by shootings.

C

source (http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/statistics/ytd_stats.php)

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/sprungman/stats-1.jpg

[elmst200]

a lot shootings in China, people don't know because media which are fully controlled are not allowed to report any "negative" aspects of their society.



When was the last time you read on the news that someone in Japan/Singapore/China/Taiwan/Korea, walked into a public place and popped a dozen people?

[rdx]

a lot shootings in China, people don't know because media which are fully controlled are not allowed to report any "negative" aspects of their society.

So those incidents were covered by Japanese, Taiwanese, Singaporean and Korean governments as well? The facts is that shooting does happen in their countries but not as frequent as in NA.

[Aznsilvrboy]

a lot shootings in China, people don't know because media which are fully controlled are not allowed to report any "negative" aspects of their society.

You know there's more than just local media in China right? How do you think news about Tiananmen Massacre and Tibetan self-immolations get spread around the world?

[Aznsilvrboy]

Well, I could start with Norway. Breivik's firearms were registered and his ownership of them was subject to even stricter laws than Canada's.

It is impossible to ban firearms effectively, in the same way that it is impossible to ban marijuana or alcohol effectively. There are literally millions of responsible firearm owners in Canada. Their activities are safer than driving a car or owning a swimming pool.

In the US, more and more states are issuing concealed carry permits, and violent crime has been decreasing the whole time.

Stricter than Canada's means nothing. Canada's gun laws are not even considered strict. A large population of Norway are also hunters and many gun permits are granted on that basis.

How Breivik obtained his weapons:


He obtained one semi-automatic 9mm Glock 17 pistol legally by demonstrating his membership in a pistol club in the police application for a gun license, and the semi-automatic Ruger Mini-14 rifle by possessing a hunting license.[64]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik#2011_attacks

[brian.gerson]

sad - but we can now say this isn't the case in todays shooting in Colorado (a state which i believe allows anyone to buy a gun without paperwork)

Actually, the reason nobody was able to shoot back is that that theatre had a "no guns" policy and it is a felony (i.e. PMITA prison) to bring a concealed firearm into it. I hope they reconsider this policy if they don't go out of business.

[neutral]

You are in a McDonalds and a gunman bursts into the room and starts shooting people. There is a person in the room who has a love of firearms, is an IPSC shooter and practices every 2 weeks, expending hundreds of times more ammunition than any police officer in a year.

Question: Do you want this person to be allowed to carry a concealed weapon, so that she has a fighting chance of defending herself and saving innocent lives?

Your daughter has to walk through a dark parking lot on her way to a nighttime Philosophy class. A deranged man approaches her with a machete.

Question: Do you prefer that she be armed and has a fighting chance of not being raped and killed? Or do you prefer a dead daughter to a dead rapist?

These are what you call loaded questions. I'd prefer to live in a society where such incidences are rarities. Rather than have a paranoid daughter who has to pack heat, I'd rather her live her life feeling safe from gun toting thugs, or sport shooters, or whatever you want to call these gun nuts these days.

The fact of the matter is, the gun owning community has a big problem, a real culture problem, and needs to address it, instead of pushing for even more madness and bloodshed.

[Simaahoy]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/20/jason-kenney-responds-to-rob-fords-immigration-statements-following-scarborough-shooting/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/07/20/mayor-rob-ford.html

[DrXenon]

These are what you call loaded questions. I'd prefer to live in a society where such incidences are rarities. Rather than have a paranoid daughter who has to pack heat, I'd rather her live her life feeling safe from gun toting thugs

There are bad people in the world, you may have noticed. You can walk around like a stunned sheep and teach your daughter to do the same, I guess, but it's better to have a realistic attitude. I have never felt safer than when I was in a Texas restaurant and made out the outline of concealed holsters on 3 gentlemen in their 50s because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.



The fact of the matter is, the gun owning community has a big problem, a real culture problem, and needs to address it, instead of pushing for even more madness and bloodshed.

There is no gun problem in Canada. There is a problem with kettling jobless immigrant youth in housing projects where they form these strange violent subcultures.

[george__]

I'm telling you. DECEMBER 2012 is REAL

[sylpherware]

I have never felt safer than when I was in a Texas restaurant and made out the outline of concealed holsters on 3 gentlemen in their 50s because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

There is a problem with kettling jobless immigrant youth in housing projects where they form these strange violent subcultures.

I see. 50yo White (I assume) male with guns are sharpshooters who will have no problem shooting violent perps, where violent perps are "jobless immigrant youth in housing projects".

Thanks for the clarification.

[transitguy1]

Question:

Pretty soon this will be the norm, like in the 3rd and 4th world countries?
Or will the Govt wake up and put an end to these shootings and stabbings once and for all?

Deploy the military and police on streets, like they do in many European countries. Time for a police state mentality I suppose.

[konfusion666]

There is a problem with kettling jobless immigrant youth in housing projects where they form these strange violent subcultures.

Agreed! And when you kettle them up too much, they go crazy and shoot 71 people at a movie theatre!

Oh wait...

:facepalm:

[Siskie]

I totally agree with Rob Ford. Enough with this PR crap. The social state of Ontario is why we have "thugs" living in areas that some people have worked very hard to get into. Some of us who grew up living in the same conditions as the "thugs" are growing up in. The difference was that the consequences when I was young were much stricter than nowadays. We didnt have a bunch of useless social programs that represent more of a "make-work" project more than anything. I dont want these thugs living anywhere near me.

Its time to call a spade a spade and bring back the death penalty. You take someone's life, you lose your own.

[wwedx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVbHMnki4NQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This song really touched me. R.I.P shyanne and Joshua. This nonsense must STOP

I can't believe this happened so close to where I live... It's unbelievable.

[Siskie]

Video: Black community demands action after Toronto shooting


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/news-video/video-black-community-demands-action-after-toronto-shootings/article4428352/?from=4428787

They should start being responsible parents and taking care of their kids. If they monitored their kids properly they would find them hanging out with the wrong crowd, bringing drugs home, bringing guns home. Im tired of my tax dollars going towards taking care of someone elses dysfunctional family and kids. These types of people shouldnt be allowed to have children.

China has it all right.

[Dragon120]

Couldn't agree more with Siskie but unfortunately, this crap is not going to stop.

[CDNPatriot]

Here is the problem. Kanye West the Hennessy sipping cool guy who these kids idolize and look up to, doesn't come out on TV to denounce these guys as losers. Instead, he plays up this bad guy image and makes it appealable to kids.

[vero95]

Here is the problem. Kanye West the Hennessy sipping cool guy who these kids idolize and look up to, doesn't come out on TV to denounce these guys as losers. Instead, he plays up this bad guy image and makes it appealable to kids.

nah, they are following this recipe
http://c3.cduniverse.ws/resized/250x500/music/043/7430043.jpg

[wisdom_kid]

Mainstream hip-hop inst about shooting/fighting or living the Thug Life. Kanye West doesn't rap about killing or shooting people, i don't know how you are relating the shootings to him. We cant get the root cause of the problem because we don't live there, nor do we know the physiological and societal problems of that area. If you grew up in that area and were raised in that kind of environment you wouldn't think its childish to be fighting over territory or power.

[Asmegin]

Another shooting, this time at J&F:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1229979--man-shot-in-the-head-near-jane-and-finch

[Jimboski]

Another shooting, this time at J&F:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1229979--man-shot-in-the-head-near-jane-and-finch

Wow.....

[Simaahoy]

The guy arrested spent the whole month promoting the block party on his twitter

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1229207--danzig-shooting-19-year-old-charged-with-reckless-discharge-of-a-firearm

[konfusion666]

Another shooting, this time at J&F:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1229979--man-shot-in-the-head-near-jane-and-finch

Looks like the thugs finally decided to go home...

[najibs]

haha!

You're back, or just here for a quickie?

[Siskie]

So on the news there is a lady from the scarborough community asking for the city taxpayers to pay for cameras to be installed in their complex where the shooting happened. How about they pay for the installation of cameras? The taxpayers are already paying for their public housing, welfare, and healthcare.

This is the problem with the socialist society of Ontario and especially Toronto. People immigrate to Canada and get used to all the free handouts thanks to Dalton McGuinty. Now they want more and more free handouts instead of actually taking care of themselves.

[kingofwale]

So on the news there is a lady from the scarborough community asking for the city taxpayers to pay for cameras to be installed in their complex where the shooting happened. How about they pay for the installation of cameras? The taxpayers are already paying for their public housing, welfare, and healthcare.

This is the problem with the socialist society of Ontario and especially Toronto. People immigrate to Canada and get used to all the free handouts thanks to Dalton McGuinty. Now they want more and more free handouts instead of actually taking care of themselves.

best way to get money from the government??? Get your local gangs to start killing each other.

Love it when so called "community leaders" not encourage people to report/stop the killing, but to blame the police/government/everyone else for not giving them enough cash.

[BornRuff]

Here is the problem. Kanye West the Hennessy sipping cool guy who these kids idolize and look up to, doesn't come out on TV to denounce these guys as losers. Instead, he plays up this bad guy image and makes it appealable to kids.

...cuz Kanye is the only hip hop artist who promotes Hennessy........

When was the last time you heard Kanye rapping about shooting people?


So on the news there is a lady from the scarborough community asking for the city taxpayers to pay for cameras to be installed in their complex where the shooting happened. How about they pay for the installation of cameras? The taxpayers are already paying for their public housing, welfare, and healthcare.

This is the problem with the socialist society of Ontario and especially Toronto. People immigrate to Canada and get used to all the free handouts thanks to Dalton McGuinty. Now they want more and more free handouts instead of actually taking care of themselves.

If people had money to install security cameras, they wouldn't be living in public housing.

Just because someone is living in public housing doesn't make it ok for them to be caught in crossfire. There is a responsibility to take reasonable steps to make these places safe.

[BornRuff]

best way to get money from the government??? Get your local gangs to start killing each other.

Love it when so called "community leaders" not encourage people to report/stop the killing, but to blame the police/government/everyone else for not giving them enough cash.

Which community leader told people not to report evidence to police or to kill people?

[kingofwale]

Which community leader told people not to report evidence to police or to kill people?

i said... "not encourage people to", not "told people not to". :)

[BornRuff]

i said... "not encourage people to", not "told people not to". :)

How do you even know that they didn't do that? Just because you hear someone say something through the media does not at all mean that is all they said.

[Siskie]

...cuz Kanye is the only hip hop artist who promotes Hennessy........

When was the last time you heard Kanye rapping about shooting people?



If people had money to install security cameras, they wouldn't be living in public housing.

Just because someone is living in public housing doesn't make it ok for them to be caught in crossfire. There is a responsibility to take reasonable steps to make these places safe.

If they cut back on buying iphones, ipads, computers, renting 60" LED TVs, buying/renting xbox, etc, they can use that money (which is welfare from the taxpayers anyways). I didnt even have a computer until I graduated university and got my first real job. I would use the schools computers to do my work. It wasnt the easiest as I had to go into the labs in the late evenings to find a computer that wasnt being used, but I didnt get a free handout (welfare). They think everyone needs to feel sorry for them and they exploit it.

Grow up in a communist Eastern European country and then they'll know what poverty feels like. The entitlement from "the community" makes me sick.

[boywonder416]

its true the ghetto is filled with hood-rich people. you'll see people driving benzs, beamers, and late model japanese cars. they spend a lot of money clothes, jordans, bags, shopping at yorkdale, etc. i see them with michael kors and louis bags and ***** . they spend a lot of money eating out too mcdonalds, chinese food joints, etc. you got these single-mothers buying jordan sneakers for their babies.

[BornRuff]

its true the ghetto is filled with hood-rich people. you'll see people driving benzs, beamers, and late model japanese cars. they spend a lot of money clothes, jordans, bags, shopping at yorkdale, etc. i see them with michael kors and louis bags and ***** . they spend a lot of money eating out too mcdonalds, chinese food joints, etc. you got these single-mothers buying jordan sneakers for their babies.

And you actually know that all of these people you talk of live in public housing or are you just making assumptions that people who look a certain way do?

[wilsonlam97]

And you actually know that all of these people you talk of live in public housing or are you just making assumptions that people who look a certain way do?

Sarcasm my friend.

[BornRuff]

If they cut back on buying iphones, ipads, computers, renting 60" LED TVs, buying/renting xbox, etc, they can use that money (which is welfare from the taxpayers anyways). I didnt even have a computer until I graduated university and got my first real job. I would use the schools computers to do my work. It wasnt the easiest as I had to go into the labs in the late evenings to find a computer that wasnt being used, but I didnt get a free handout (welfare). They think everyone needs to feel sorry for them and they exploit it.

Grow up in a communist Eastern European country and then they'll know what poverty feels like. The entitlement from "the community" makes me sick.

Lol, who do you think pays for those school computers?

The point about putting cameras in isn't about poverty, it is about safety. Reasonable steps need to be taken by landlords to keep their properties safe, even if that landlord is the city.

[wilsonlam97]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVbHMnki4NQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This song really touched me. R.I.P shyanne and Joshua. This nonsense must STOP

I can't believe this happened so close to where I live... It's unbelievable.

Good lyrics.

[wilsonlam97]

Lol, who do you think pays for those school computers?

The point about putting cameras in isn't about poverty, it is about safety. Reasonable steps need to be taken by landlords to keep their properties safe, even if that landlord is the city.


It's kinda on a different level because your relying on a backbone that is accessible to everyone vs welware is for people financially unstable.

[BornRuff]

It's kinda on a different level because your relying on a backbone that is accessible to everyone vs welware is for people financially unstable.

How many "communist Eastern European" countries provided computers for people to use?

[masterhapposai]

Mainstream hip-hop inst about shooting/fighting or living the Thug Life. Kanye West doesn't rap about killing or shooting people, i don't know how you are relating the shootings to him. We cant get the root cause of the problem because we don't live there, nor do we know the physiological and societal problems of that area. If you grew up in that area and were raised in that kind of environment you wouldn't think its childish to be fighting over territory or power.

uhh, you know for a fact that they don't listen to Kanye. they DO listen to music that involves glorification of guns, fast money, crime

back in the 1980's and 1990's hiphop used to have a message and was about real life, not a fantasy gun life that these people try to emulate. many of the originators of hiphop repeat exactly what I'm saying here and denounce violence encouraging "rap"

[BornRuff]

uhh, you know for a fact that they don't listen to Kanye. they DO listen to music that involves glorification of guns, fast money, crime

back in the 1980's and 1990's hiphop used to have a message and was about real life, not a fantasy gun life that these people try to emulate. many of the originators of hiphop repeat exactly what I'm saying here and denounce violence encouraging "rap"

I'm not sure if you heard about these guys, but Biggie and Tupac were somewhat big in the 90's.

[wilsonlam97]

How many "communist Eastern European" countries provided computers for people to use?

I guess...

But shared resources such as computers in schools are being used much more efficiently then giving people welfare money. Mind as well dump all our money into education and creating jobs vs. welfare.

[CDNPatriot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq8Qlxu5vxk&feature=related

[Asmegin]

...cuz Kanye is the only hip hop artist who promotes Hennessy........

When was the last time you heard Kanye rapping about shooting people?


While Kanye isn't bad in terms of promoting gangsterism, his recent release pretty relevant.

While it's not actually him singing in the chorus, it's pretty relevant to whats going on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1JJkMD1hE4&feature=player_detailpage#t=32s *EXPLICIT LYRICS*

"A snitch n***a, that's that **** I don't like (BANG BANG!)" :lol:

[Siskie]

Lol, who do you think pays for those school computers?

The point about putting cameras in isn't about poverty, it is about safety. Reasonable steps need to be taken by landlords to keep their properties safe, even if that landlord is the city.

youre totally missing the point. The school computers are already there and paid for, so use them. Dont go and buy the latest sony vaio or apple just because it allows your fat ***** to sit at home and surf facebook while your kids are out shooting people and dealing drugs.

also, there are reasonable steps for safety and there is babysitting. Are there cameras outside every house in the GTA that the city has paid for? NOPE. So why do these people in "the community" get special treatment? Maybe its time for them to grow up and be responsible for their own lives. The city of Toronto is not a full-time babysitting service.

[wwedx]

youre totally missing the point. The school computers are already there and paid for, so use them. Dont go and buy the latest sony vaio or apple just because it allows your fat ***** to sit at home and surf facebook while your kids are out shooting people and dealing drugs.

also, there are reasonable steps for safety and there is babysitting. Are there cameras outside every house in the GTA that the city has paid for? NOPE. So why do these people in "the community" get special treatment? Maybe its time for them to grow up and be responsible for their own lives. The city of Toronto is not a full-time babysitting service.
+1!!!

[spike1128]

Here is the problem. Kanye West the Hennessy sipping cool guy who these kids idolize and look up to, doesn't come out on TV to denounce these guys as losers. Instead, he plays up this bad guy image and makes it appealable to kids.

Kanye is too busy rapping about gangsterism, making money, and playing with curvy Kimmy to denounce violence.

[ClubberLang]

Here is the problem. Kanye West the Hennessy sipping cool guy who these kids idolize and look up to, doesn't come out on TV to denounce these guys as losers. Instead, he plays up this bad guy image and makes it appealable to kids.

Please don't talk about things that you don't know anything about.

[Show_boat]

Lol so were blaming music for people being shot? more ignorance and such a cop out excuse can't believe it but this the second time im posting this


*****

Music is entertainment thats it I'm a hip hop fanatic and I've never once been influenced to shoot or do harm anybody find something else to blame the issues on

[jaxx lite]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ9rUzIMcZQ

[BornRuff]

youre totally missing the point. The school computers are already there and paid for, so use them. Dont go and buy the latest sony vaio or apple just because it allows your fat ***** to sit at home and surf facebook while your kids are out shooting people and dealing drugs.

also, there are reasonable steps for safety and there is babysitting. Are there cameras outside every house in the GTA that the city has paid for? NOPE. So why do these people in "the community" get special treatment? Maybe its time for them to grow up and be responsible for their own lives. The city of Toronto is not a full-time babysitting service.

Everything that already exists is already there and paid for, but it actually costs a lot of money to maintain a computer lab. Maintaining the computers, paying for electricity, the cost of the space, etc etc. For people who bought iPads with Ontario Works money, it's already there and paid for. At one point, everything wasn't paid for and someone had to pony up money for it. If you were really against government support, you would have bought your own computer, but instead, you relied on government support to access a computer.

What exactly are people supposed to do when these gangsters show up and start shooting people?

Many landlords in the city have security cameras on their property. It is based on need.

[BornRuff]

I guess...

But shared resources such as computers in schools are being used much more efficiently then giving people welfare money. Mind as well dump all our money into education and creating jobs vs. welfare.

What evidence do you have that computers in schools are more efficient than Ontario Works? How would you make that comparison?

Education, job creation, and welfare are not mutually exclusive. Every developed country in the world spends money on all of these things, as they are all necessary for a successful society.

[jaysfan4life]

Haha this is funny everyone condemning Kanye West when his Mother was a Professor and is the first guy to say he is just a kid from the suburbs.

[kamilio]

Haha this is funny everyone condemning Kanye West when his Mother was a Professor and is the first guy to say he is just a kid from the suburbs.

Rfd is full of morons who live in their mom's basement and like to reach all encompassing conclusions without really exploring the cause of issues.

The level of IQ displayed on this site is something else.

[manmanny]

Haha this is funny everyone condemning Kanye West when his Mother was a Professor and is the first guy to say he is just a kid from the suburbs.

Rfd is full of morons who live in their mom's basement and like to reach all encompassing conclusions without really exploring the cause of issues.

The level of IQ displayed on this site is something else.
Its in Star for last 3 days. Rosie and others have written articles about it. Star even has pictures of him with the bottle in hand.

[Simaahoy]

From a source..

pic.twitter.com/f9j4q21z
HenneyBlockParty im givin the baddest gurl up in this b**** her own bottle. So make sureee yu fly as f**** tonight������������

http://t.co/8HI3PT8d

:facepalm:


Aint nun better dan smokin cubans whole my cuban b**** at home waitin for me http://t.co/lBiJGU6q

[LaserEnvy]

From a source..

pic.twitter.com/f9j4q21z
HenneyBlockParty im givin the baddest gurl up in this b**** her own bottle. So make sureee yu fly as f**** tonight������������

http://t.co/8HI3PT8d

:facepalm:


Aint nun better dan smokin cubans whole my cuban b**** at home waitin for me http://t.co/lBiJGU6q

lmao

[spike1128]

lmao

We need a translation on that message.

[Simaahoy]

We need a translation on that message.

I hard a hard time understanding the first line let alone the 2nd one..


His twitter is the first link with more gangsta gibberish

[jaysfan4life]

Drake is more Gangsta then Kanye West, and we all know Drake is from Forrest Hil.

[Simaahoy]

http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/woq6s/mass_shooting_at_party_in_scarborough_leaves_one/c5f6kzw

Look at the first comment and the party was hosted by the guy who got charged.

[wilsonlam97]

I heard welfare is now paid through debit cards. Great. Now the government can track spending. I like where this is going:D

[BornRuff]

I heard welfare is now paid through debit cards. Great. Now the government can track spending. I like where this is going:D

The government has explicitly stated that they do not intend to place any restrictions on how these cards are used. 3/4 of recipients already get their Ontario Works payments through direct deposit, the cards are just for the small group of people who do not have a bank account, so this really doesn't provide much ability to monitor spending anyways.

There really isn't much benefit to the government trying to control how money is spent. People need some personal responsibility to ever have a chance of getting off Ontario Works.

[manmanny]

http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/woq6s/mass_shooting_at_party_in_scarborough_leaves_one/c5f6kzw

Look at the first comment and the party was hosted by the guy who got charged.

Toronto Star has admitted they always watch these blogs. Now I know from horses' mouth how the blog news becomes newspaper article.
"The Star’s newsroom was well aware of the information that was circulating widely in real time through Twitter and other social media sites including Reddit and Facebook." English, Kathy Public Editor

[brian.gerson]

Someone seems to have been banned for quoting the lyrics to the popular song "Damn it's good to be a gangster". :facepalm:

[spike1128]

Toronto Star has admitted they always watch these blogs. Now I know from horses' mouth how the blog news becomes newspaper article.
"The Star’s newsroom was well aware of the information that was circulating widely in real time through Twitter and other social media sites including Reddit and Facebook." English, Kathy Public Editor

Just follow to the backup king and pay me 500 bucks or I call the cops issue of the star. They are all over these blogs/forums.

[manmanny]

Haha this is funny everyone condemning Kanye West when his Mother was a Professor and is the first guy to say he is just a kid from the suburbs.

Rfd is full of morons who live in their mom's basement and like to reach all encompassing conclusions without really exploring the cause of issues.

The level of IQ displayed on this site is something else.

http://i.thestar.com/images/b5/6e/96e102ef42cfa4ff041fcdbf4979.jpg


How Hennessy cognac became linked to the Danzig St. shooting (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1229058--how-hennessy-cognac-became-linked-to-the-danzig-st-shooting)

[wisdom_kid]

http://i.thestar.com/images/b5/6e/96e102ef42cfa4ff041fcdbf4979.jpg


How Hennessy cognac became linked to the Danzig St. shooting (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1229058--how-hennessy-cognac-became-linked-to-the-danzig-st-shooting)

So what? You are saying just because they drank Hennesy they decided to shoot each other? Would you prefer they drink something else so they don't shoot each other?

I read that article few days ago and I just found it amusing how "journalists" are trying to come out with new ways to spin the story. The shootings had nothing to do with Hennessy. If they got drunk and started to shoot each other, then the focus should be on alcohol not which kind of alcohol.

[manmanny]

So what? You are saying just because they drank Hennesy they decided to shoot each other? Would you prefer they drink something else so they don't shoot each other?

I read that article few days ago and I just found it amusing how "journalists" are trying to come out with new ways to spin the story. The shootings had nothing to do with Hennessy. If they got drunk and started to shoot each other, then the focus should be on alcohol not which kind of alcohol.

I think you just trying to pick some !@#$. So calm down.
Its time you write to Antonia about this or other Star writers or Rosie who first wrote about this. I have done and they do reply. Not that it matters.

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/breaking-multiple-shootings-scarborough-many-25-shot-two-dead-1203564/43/#post15073610

[CheeseDie]

I like how houses in scar go for 800k starting.... Government plan to raise house prices so that people are forced into bee hive condos. Its ok tho the brave police are out protecting us from bad people that park in front of their home driveway... Those are the real thugs... Useless.

[manmanny]

I like how houses in scar go for 800k starting.... Government plan to raise house prices so that people are forced into bee hive condos. Its ok tho the brave police are out protecting us from bad people that park in front of their home driveway... Those are the real thugs... Useless.
really I didn't know that.;) I thought many RFD users prefer condos to houses.

[LostInTruth]

Out of all the rappers, you guys choose Kanye?

I do agree that ALL music impacts life. It's like religion & politics, it feels to the masses and people identify with it. It takes a sound mind to differ between right and wrong, but when you grow up in such dire conditions, it's not hard to see why the wrong can lead to a "glorious" right.

[masterhapposai]

Out of all the rappers, you guys choose Kanye?

I do agree that ALL music impacts life. It's like religion & politics, it feels to the masses and people identify with it. It takes a sound mind to differ between right and wrong, but when you grow up in such dire conditions, it's not hard to see why the wrong can lead to a "glorious" right.

I think it works more like this:

Money brings status and respect. Making "fast money" consists of drugs, robbery, contract kills, etc.

When you do those things, what kind of music are you going to rock to in the background. Death Metal? Bieber? Or a song about .. drugs, robbery, killing.

Definitely the music glorifies it. But, the fact is, in those neighborhoods they're going to partake in the violence and drugs as long as the smuggled drugs or grow op drugs are rolling in and a drug lord is dishing them out to the kids to sell.

The cops have to nip it at the top.

[Simaahoy]

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/29/alleged-gunman-a-refugee



TORONTO - An accused gunman charged with firing a weapon at a Scarborough barbeque where two people were killed and 23 others wounded arrived in Canada as a refugee from Somalia seeking a better life, border officials say.

But the 19-year-old allegedly “fell in with the wrong crowd” after obtaining Canadian citizenship, officers of the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) said.

The officers, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said since he has been granted Canadian citizenship, it would be nearly impossible to deport him in the event of a conviction.

Nahom Tsegazab, 19, of Toronto, has been charged with the reckless discharge of a firearm. He is expected back in court this week and is the only suspect charged in the July 16 mass shooting.

Police said the suspect, who was believed to be the intended target, was injured in the Danzig St. shootout that killed Shyanne Charles, 14, and Joshua Yasay, 23, of Ajax.

About 300 people attended the funeral services for Charles on Saturday in Scarborough. Yasay was buried last week.

Officers suspect the gunfight, which was the worst in Toronto, stemmed from a dispute between the Galloway Boys and Malvern Crew street gangs over turf or drugs.

Police and community residents are hoping that there is no violence on Saturday along the Lake Shore Blvd. W. route of the Scotiabank Caribbean Carnival parade. About 1 million people are expected for the festival that contributes $400 million to Ontario’s economy.

The concerns have prompted police to plan to deploy addtional officers along the route and check the bags of most Carnival revellers for contraband or weapons.

Meanwhile, Customs and immigration officers said they want to be included in a police hunt for gunmen in future shootings.

Jean-Pierre Fortin, national president of the Customs and Immigration Union, said some of his armed officers should be patrolling with Toronto Police as they investigate shootings.

“Our officers have expertise in immigration matters and can help police in these difficult cases,” Fortin said on Sunday. “Our officers are armed and can help police make our communities safer.”

Toronto cops now have a liasion officer they can contact to obtain immigration information on suspects.

Customs officers also claim more contraband, including guns and weapons, may be smuggled into the country with the planned federal government layoffs of 1,351 CBSA officers.

[opento]

any updates?

[kennyhohoho]

I think it works more like this:

Money brings status and respect. Making "fast money" consists of drugs, robbery, contract kills, etc.

When you do those things, what kind of music are you going to rock to in the background. Death Metal? Bieber? Or a song about .. drugs, robbery, killing.

Definitely the music glorifies it. But, the fact is, in those neighborhoods they're going to partake in the violence and drugs as long as the smuggled drugs or grow op drugs are rolling in and a drug lord is dishing them out to the kids to sell.

The cops have to nip it at the top.

I didn't realize "thugs" have their headphones on while dealing drugs, shooting other thugs, and robbing liquor stores. I'll be sure to watch out for guys with headphones listening to rap music.

[brian.gerson]

So massive immigration from the world's poorest, most violence ridden cultures turns out not to be a good thing? I mean, who could have foreseen it?

[Simaahoy]

Did this guy appear in court yet?

[Mantic]

Caribana this weekend hopefully everything is safe.

[sprung]

FYI - this could be of interest for people in the area or just concerned citizens. happens today:

Community Safety Town Hall meeting with Chief William Blair, Thursday, September 13, 2012, 7 p.m., Danzig Street, beside basketball courts

Thursday, September 13, 2012 - 1:20 PM
43 Division
416-808-4300

On Thursday, September 13, 2012, at 7 p.m., Chief William Blair will speak to the community and listen to any safety concerns residents may have.

This is a great opportunity to hear from Chief Blair and speak with him and the local Division Commanders.

This Town Hall meeting is a unique one in that it will be held outside, right in the heart of the Danzig Street community, near the basketball courts.



Constable Wendy Drummond, Corporate Communications, for Superintendant Mark Fenton, 43 Division

[manmanny]

A 16-year-old youth was arrested on Tuesday and charged in connection with the Danzig St. shooting, but not for murder.

What's wrong with these kids?

"The suspect, who cannot be identified because he is a minor, faces charges that include threatening death, use of a firearm to commit an indictable offence and possession of an unauthorized weapon."

[lazzop]

A 16-year-old youth was arrested on Tuesday and charged in connection with the Danzig St. shooting, but not for murder.

What's wrong with these kids?

"The suspect, who cannot be identified because he is a minor, faces charges that include threatening death, use of a firearm to commit an indictable offence and possession of an unauthorized weapon."

Canada should bring back the death penalty, useless scum like these 16 years deserve to die for their crimes.