PC or Mac? Which one is better to buy

[chriskov]

Hello,
Curious as to which computer laptop I should be looking to buy?
I know PC laptops are relatively cheap when compared to Apple's macbook pro.
However I know that with the macbook you can purchase the one to one training.

Just curious if anyone has some insight into pros and cons of both.

Thank you.

[MonsieurX]

What is the purpose of your laptop?

[arm2000]

I guess the difference in costs between a Mac and a PC would cover for more than any one to one training provided (sold?) by Apple

[gnuman]

Quite honestly with the disgusting specs of the new MBP it's like taking your money and burning it. Just go for a PC and save a bunch of money. Heck if you want a unit that looks like a Mac then get Asus Zenbook Pro. You still have about $1000 leftover to use as toilet paper.

[will888]

I would say get a tablet. I just got one and I think it is a good potential replacement for a laptop. My tablet can access the NAS storage, usb printer. I just need to get a proper office suite and I am pretty much done.

[xalex0]

OPening a can of worms.

[IntrepidRT]

Obviously you have money to burn since you're considering the $2200 MBP. Maybe it's worth it to some, but for me I'll stick to a $500-$600 laptop with similar specs (minus the high-res display that hardly anyone will actually take advantage of anyways). Internally they have the same hardware, obviously externally they have different cases, they have different OS'. Basically $1000 of your monty is paying for the Apple logo on the case. This is redflagdeals......people here generally don't see the point in paying a very high premium for a logo, of course many people who don't know any better do. My sister bought an Acura CSX which was exactly double the cost of my Honda Civic (but basically the same car), for about $17,000 she got navigation, sunroof, cruise control, leather seats and a VERY expensive Acura badge.

[george__]

PC any day. MAC is basically overpriced PC with a special OS... UNLESS the needed software is MAC only (which is highly unlikely)...

I personally have owned IBM Thinkpads as my primary notebooks for years... They are awesome. Lenovo Thinkpads, I feel, are iffy... They made the laptops more available to the public but sacrificed quality... Another good bet is HP Business line notebooks. But I have a powerful desktop computer which compliments my laptop...

edit: This is a realllllly debated topic.

[Mars2012]

I like the trackpad and battery life of the Macbooks. My MBP is going on two years old and has never had any issues. I sometimes use a Dell at work and I really don't like it, especially the start-up time. I think an Apple laptop will be useful for longer than a non-Apple product, but that's just my opinion.

[vonblock]

Lol

How to start a flame war

You did it on purpose ?

You should add linux to the pot.

[viss]

Obviously you have money to burn since you're considering the $2200 MBP. Maybe it's worth it to some, but for me I'll stick to a $500-$600 laptop with similar specs (minus the high-res display that hardly anyone will actually take advantage of anyways). Internally they have the same hardware, obviously externally they have different cases, they have different OS'. Basically $1000 of your monty is paying for the Apple logo on the case. This is redflagdeals......people here generally don't see the point in paying a very high premium for a logo, of course many people who don't know any better do. My sister bought an Acura CSX which was exactly double the cost of my Honda Civic (but basically the same car), for about $17,000 she got navigation, sunroof, cruise control, leather seats and a VERY expensive Acura badge.

Those sound like pretty awesome options. If the CSX is $17,000 and its double the price of the Civic then it must be that Civics start at $8,500? Or are you exaggerating just a bit? Be real here.

But in all honesty OP, you don't seem too worried about the price at all if you've even considered a MBP. You should take IntrepidRT's advice from his signature: “If you sit on, sleep on, stare at, or touch something for more than an hour a day, spend whatever it takes to get the best.”

[gnuman]

I like the trackpad and battery life of the Macbooks. My MBP is going on two years old and has never had any issues. I sometimes use a Dell at work and I really don't like it, especially the start-up time. I think an Apple laptop will be useful for longer than a non-Apple product, but that's just my opinion.

The reality distortion field is working... Look I had an HP DV6010ca laptop that lasted me 5 years and I paid $1100 for it. Didn't have the issue with the recall for the graphics or wireless crapping out until it died. I bought myself an Asus laptop which has the lowest failure rates and it died 2.5 years of owning it. So what is the point of saying not having issues? I had 1 single issue that it had to be sent in for repair either it's the luck of the draw.

Startup time has nothing to do with it being a Dell or an HP. Different specs, could be too much junk installed.

Btw, if you don't like Windows, how about Linux Mint?

[Dwight10]

I am proffering PC laptop. Because its easy to use and cheaper than Mac. Also it looks very smart.

[Jimboski]

I'm a PC guy!

[Lazy Susan]

Get a Mac. You'll look cool.

[vonblock]

As a university student, I now feel like I'm a rebel using my Windows PC.

There is so much mac now, It's not even cool to use a Mac now in a certain place (school with wannabe hipster is one of those place).

Put A Linux sticker on your windows computer and Voilà, Enjoy.

[Ojam]

Obviously you have money to burn since you're considering the $2200 MBP.

OP didn't mention anything about the Retina display MBP. MBP starts at 1229. But since you mentioned it can you point me to a similar spec pc for $500-$600, I'd be interested in buying that.

[time space]

OP, if you're considering getting one-on-one training, you are likely relatively new to computers. My suggestion is that you should consider a MacBook Pro as you mentioned because they are high quality, easy to use machines.

You can buy a refurbished one from Apple (http://store.apple.com/ca/browse/home/specialdeals/mac) for a good price (they are absolutely as good as new, fully warrantied for a year - try to find a bad word written about an Apple refurb from someone who has purchased one ;) ) - you might consider this one for $959 (http://store.apple.com/ca/product/FD313LL/A).

Also, I don't buy extended warranties myself (even on Apple), but you might consider purchasing AppleCare (http://www.apple.com/ca/support/products/mac.html) because of the exemplary phone support they provide, especially to a new user who might get tripped up over some simple step.

[zz000ter]

I bought a $1200 MacBook in late 2008 and it is still "like new" and I have no thoughts of replacing it.

I thought it was "expensive" but when I look at the specs I found that the price was comparable to premium Windows based laptops.

The aluminum shell is fantastic

[bandersnatch]

I bought a $1200 MacBook in late 2008 and it is still "like new" and I have no thoughts of replacing it.

I thought it was "expensive" but when I look at the specs I found that the price was comparable to premium Windows based laptops.

The aluminum shell is fantastic

This.

You get what you pay for.

[KennyX]

Honestly, I dont really think it really matters for the average person. Web surfing, emails, videos, and playing music... PC or Mac will do fine.

I guess it all comes down to getting a good deal for hardware vs. something that look's really nice. There's been a huge thread with people getting the Ideapad y580, which is probably the best bang for your buck, and probably unbeatable in terms of hardware for that pricepoint, but IMO it doesnt look very good visually/aesthetically (though Im sure reliability is great). On the otherhand, you have the retina Macbook Pro, which can't compete in terms of hardware, but has a beautiful screen, and the entire unit look's the price.

[IceBlueShoes]

As a Mac guy with a Mini, this will be my last Mac.
Win 7 works well enough and I hate how Apple controls everything. The newer Minis can only have their RAM upgraded unless you get really ballsy and take the whole thing apart.

Although if you do get a Mac, you could always install Windows and go the Bootcamp route...

[Lazy Susan]

This.

You get what you pay for.

You certainly do.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2012/07/12/apples-loses-green-credibility-with-macbook-battery-and-registry-withdrawal/


As a Mac guy with a Mini, this will be my last Mac.
Win 7 works well enough and I hate how Apple controls everything. The newer Minis can only have their RAM upgraded unless you get really ballsy and take the whole thing apart.

Although if you do get a Mac, you could always install Windows and go the Bootcamp route...

Planned obsolescence at it's finest.

[Techgeek32]

I am using windows laptops many years. I've tried Macbooks also. My opinion is that obviously a Mac is better from a windows laptop but I'm not sure that giving so much more money to buy a Mac worth for its better performance.

[time space]

I bought a $1200 MacBook in late 2008 and it is still "like new" and I have no thoughts of replacing it.

I thought it was "expensive" but when I look at the specs I found that the price was comparable to premium Windows based laptops.

The aluminum shell is fantastic

This.

You get what you pay for.

You certainly do.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2012/07/12/apples-loses-green-credibility-with-macbook-battery-and-registry-withdrawal/


You're behind the times, Lazy.

Apple had briefly voluntarily withdrawn from EPEAT, but has since rejoined the environmental standards organization (http://thenextweb.com/apple/2012/07/14/the-epeat-gives-appl-a-golden-shower/) after convincing them to update their criteria to reflect modern fabrication methods.

There may be valid reasons to criticize Apple, but their environmental record is surely not one of them.


Only 57% of Dell’s products, 47% of HP’s products and 68% of Samsung’s products meet the Gold standard. Apple gets a 100% Gold rating.

[jmatheson64]

You need to ask yourself whether you buy expensive coffee, because whether a person buys PC or Mac is directly correlated to the prices they pay for coffee.

All jokes aside, Macbooks have really taken over at my university, as most people are under the impression that Mac is a) symbolic of status, b) higher quality product and c) free of virus or malware.

Do not be deceived by b) and c). Macbooks do break, and it is not as uncommon as you might think. Of course PCs are assumed to be more prone to virus and malware because developers of virus/malware aim for the platform with the most numbers, but as Macs grow in popularity so will virus and malware. Anyone with an hour or so could learn (via youtube and google) how to reformat and reinstall Windows and save on 90% of PC maintenance costs over their lifetime as it really has become easy to do this.

As many people have already said, Macbook prices are inflated for the parts you get under the sleek aluminum frame. A PC with the same or better parts would run significantly cheaper. So what is it you are paying for? a) Status. Ask yourself if that is what matters to you and make your decision, but as for me I'd rather save the cash and buy newer PCs than continue running an outdated Mac.

[Mars2012]

To me, it's not about status, it's about functionality. The MBP has the MagSafe power connector which is really a brilliant idea. As I said earlier, there is a well-designed trackpad and great battery life. If you need to reformat, you can do it simply from a Time Machine backup. Yes, you are paying more for the product, but there are so many innovations included that make your computing experience easier. The one thing I like about PC's is that I can open it up and upgrade components on my own; I'm not comfortable doing that with my Apple products. I actually have both systems in the house. I have a beast of a PC gaming computer too because the teenaged son won't game on an iMac.:|

[mucat]

Macs are just PCs running a different OS. :D

[al3x89]

PC = personal computer

therefore mac = PC

so op, if you buy a mac, you also have a pc

MINDBLOWN

[brian.gerson]

I bought a $1200 MacBook

The aluminum shell is fantastic

I hate the aluminum shell, because the edge in front of the keyboard cuts into my wrists when I am using it reclined.

Love everything else about it though. Just does what I want it to without having to worry about DLL conflicts, reinstalling every year or two, antivirus hassles, etc.

[brian.gerson]

The one thing I like about PC's is that I can open it up and upgrade components on my own; I'm not comfortable doing that with my Apple products.

If you can upgrade the RAM/HD in a PC, you can do it to a MBP. They are designed to be easily upgradeable.

[hugh_da_man]

If you can upgrade the RAM/HD in a PC, you can do it to a MBP. They are designed to be easily upgradeable.

Not true. The retina macbook pro has the ram soldered to the main board. I'm not sure about the other MBP line but macs are getting harder if not impossible to upgrade.

To answer OPs question...go try out a Windows PC and Mac and figure out which you like best and buy that one. Most people I know who own Macs also run Windows 7 on their Mac so at least you have that option if you go that route.

[Ojam]

Not true. The retina macbook pro has the ram soldered to the main board. I'm not sure about the other MBP line but macs are getting harder if not impossible to upgrade.

To answer OPs question...go try out a Windows PC and Mac and figure out which you like best and buy that one. Most people I know who own Macs also run Windows 7 on their Mac so at least you have that option if you go that route.

There are 4 other MBPs other than the new Retina display MBP. They are completly different machines and are upgradable.

[time space]

If you can upgrade the RAM/HD in a PC, you can do it to a MBP. They are designed to be easily upgradeable.

Not true. The retina macbook pro has the ram soldered to the main board. I'm not sure about the other MBP line but macs are getting harder if not impossible to upgrade.

MacBook Pro's are simple to upgrade - unscrew the bottom and pop in the new RAM (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1270#link1) or plug in the new HD (http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/MBPRO_13inch_Mid2009_Hard_Drive_DIY.pdf).

The retina MacBook Pro is the one exception because the whole computer is practically a solid state unit. It's designed this way to absolutely minimize it's size and weight - it's what is now broadly described as an "ultrabook". The same fabrication methods are used in the most advanced Windows ultrabooks (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=6289&news=asus+zenbook+ux21+ux31&p=4) too. Don't be surprised if within a decade, all portable computers follow Apple's lead, and are fabricated in this manner.

[coolspot]

With Windows 7 and Windows 8, there is less incentive to buy a Mac.

Only reason would be for iMovie, which is far better than any consumer editing program on the PC.

If money is any factor, get a PC. Macs are at least 50 - 100% more expensive.

[peoplewhoneedsomething]

To me, it's not about status, it's about functionality. The MBP has the MagSafe power connector which is really a brilliant idea. As I said earlier, there is a well-designed trackpad and great battery life. If you need to reformat, you can do it simply from a Time Machine backup. Yes, you are paying more for the product, but there are so many innovations included that make your computing experience easier. The one thing I like about PC's is that I can open it up and upgrade components on my own; I'm not comfortable doing that with my Apple products. I actually have both systems in the house. I have a beast of a PC gaming computer too because the teenaged son won't game on an iMac.:|

Why not make one Hackintosh (desktop)? Easily upgradeable, runs OS X, and does whatever you need it to do.

[hugh_da_man]

MacBook Pro's are simple to upgrade - unscrew the bottom and pop in the new RAM (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1270#link1) or plug in the new HD (http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/MBPRO_13inch_Mid2009_Hard_Drive_DIY.pdf).

The retina MacBook Pro is the one exception because the whole computer is practically a solid state unit. It's designed this way to absolutely minimize it's size and weight - it's what is now broadly described as an "ultrabook". The same fabrication methods are used in the most advanced Windows ultrabooks (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=6289&news=asus+zenbook+ux21+ux31&p=4) too. Don't be surprised if within a decade, all portable computers follow Apple's lead, and are fabricated in this manner.

Agreed, but a blanket statement like MBPs "are designed to be easily upgradeable" isn't correct considering the MBP now has a variant that is impossible to upgrade. There are a lot of people who don't understand simple things like the difference between retina and non-retina MBPs such as one guy I know who told me that he ordered the base model because he'd upgrade the harddrive and ram on his own because he googled it and "there are instructions on how to do it all over the internet"...

I do agree though that the industry will probably head down the path of preventing user upgrades because it's the easiest way to make more money and gain tighter control over the hardware.

[adams7]

Reasons I got a Mac:

- to get more understanding of Apple as a corporation (AAPL stock has been good to me)
- better baseline apps (iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie etc) than what is included with Windows
- better integration with my iPad and iPod Touch (and future iPhone)
- eliminate need for anti-virus software

I got a base Mac Mini for $520 and use it with an already-owned 22" monitor. I installed 8GB ram costing $40. Later I'll probably upgrade the hard drive to a bigger one and/or SSD. This Mini is the least expensive Mac but even so it is very capable and the physical build quality (aluminum case...) is impressive, about 9 times faster than my aging Toshiba notebook that was still OK for most things. Uses about 20 watts.

I'd say I have less little hassles and glitches with the Mac compared to Windows. One thing I don't like is the Apple Magic Mouse, it's too low, I actually use a Dell Bluetooth mouse. The Apple wireless keyboard and trackpad are good.

I've gone Mac and won't go back.

[MkmBandit]

Reasons I got a Mac:

- to get more understanding of Apple as a corporation (AAPL stock has been good to me)
- better baseline apps (iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie etc) than what is included with Windows
- better integration with my iPad and iPod Touch (and future iPhone)
- eliminate need for anti-virus software



So what you're saying is, Mac's are for the lazydomes out there. People who don't care to know more about their technology then Apple lays out in front of them. There are people like that out there, so I suppose it's a fair argument. I'm just messin with you, of course.. :razz:

I'll take freeware and enlightenment of open source any day.

[george__]

I hated iTunes because when I tried copying movies I had to deal with iTune drm -_-"

[IceBlueShoes]

Reasons I got a Mac:

- to get more understanding of Apple as a corporation (AAPL stock has been good to me)
- better baseline apps (iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie etc) than what is included with Windows
- better integration with my iPad and iPod Touch (and future iPhone)
- eliminate need for anti-virus software

I got a base Mac Mini for $520 and use it with an already-owned 22" monitor. I installed 8GB ram costing $40. Later I'll probably upgrade the hard drive to a bigger one and/or SSD. This Mini is the least expensive Mac but even so it is very capable and the physical build quality (aluminum case...) is impressive, about 9 times faster than my aging Toshiba notebook that was still OK for most things. Uses about 20 watts.

I'd say I have less little hassles and glitches with the Mac compared to Windows. One thing I don't like is the Apple Magic Mouse, it's too low, I actually use a Dell Bluetooth mouse. The Apple wireless keyboard and trackpad are good.

I've gone Mac and won't go back.
You can get itunes on windows.
iphoto is TOO basic. Plenty of freeware programs out there. I switched to Adobe Lightroom. Waay better than iPhoto. I despise that it makes multiple copies of my photos.

-iPods/iPhones all work on windows. Same integration there.

-Anti-viruses are starting to be made for Macs. Just a matter of time before the nastier ones are unleashed. As the market grows, so will the "threats".

[JAC]

You're behind the times, Lazy.
Apple had briefly voluntarily withdrawn from EPEAT, but has since rejoined the environmental standards organization (http://thenextweb.com/apple/2012/07/14/the-epeat-gives-appl-a-golden-shower/) after convincing them to update their criteria to reflect modern fabrication methods.
There may be valid reasons to criticize Apple, but their environmental record is surely not one of them.

You completely missed the point of that article.

Anyhow, buying a Mac is like buying a 2010 Acura CSX instead of a 2012 Honda Civic.

[aplayaz2000]

well maybe if you're a bit slow and stupid... you're better off with a MAC
it's like simple

otherwise the ability to get better hardware for a cheaper price, and not having to deal with crap
PC GAMING

[TheRed]

Not one piece of a PC can beat Macbook Pro Retina Display!

[xalex0]

Not one piece of a PC can beat Macbook Pro Retina Display!Do they need to? As if there are no other area that could use some improvement.
Also it's amusing that you needed to specify the exact model, because Retina Display is not a technology, but simply a marketing term for a variety of displays, that don't even have same PPI.

[nagasadow]

a potatoe because unlike a apple after 6 months you can still eat it

[time space]

a potatoe because unlike a apple after 6 months you can still eat it
If stored in proper conditions (a cool dark place) apples and potatoes can both last about 6 months.

[rivet]

I've been thinking of switching to a Mac for a while. Mainly because I find it so much easier to back up and restore using time machine. It's a pain whenever I change computers in windows, I had to reinstall every program and try to reset all the settings I used to, and restore all data manually. Is there a good back up and migrating solution in windows?

[aplayaz2000]

Is there a good back up and migrating solution in windows?window 7 retains all the files in windows old file

[adams7]

So what you're saying is, Mac's are for the lazydomes out there. People who don't care to know more about their technology then Apple lays out in front of them. There are people like that out there, so I suppose it's a fair argument. I'm just messin with you, of course.. :razz:

I'll take freeware and enlightenment of open source any day.

There is lots of legal freeware for Mac too. For example VLC, which to my surprise works perfectly on my Mac, as compared to occasional problems on my Windows computer.

For programmers, the Apple development software (compilers etc) is free although you need to have a $100 annual developer ID. Last time I did programming for Windows the development tools cost a LOT more.

I'll be able to get the new OSX version (Mountain Lion) soon for only $20. Compare that to the price Microsoft charges for a major Windows update.

[xalex0]

For programmers, the Apple development software (compilers etc) is free although you need to have a $100 annual developer ID. Last time I did programming for Windows the development tools cost a LOT more.
There are plenty of freeware and even opensource compilers for windows.



I'll be able to get the new OSX version (Mountain Lion) soon for only $20. Compare that to the price Microsoft charges for a major Windows update.$15?

[steve-0101]

$15?

LOL, nice try but not completely accurate, is it?

[time space]

I'll be able to get the new OSX version (Mountain Lion) soon for only $20. Compare that to the price Microsoft charges for a major Windows update.

$15?

How about $39.99 (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6065/windows-8-upgrade-will-cost-just-3999)!


It's a move that the team from Cupertino has been using for the last several years, and it looks like Microsoft is going to give it a shot. In a post on The Windows Blog (not to be confused with the Building Windows 8 blog), Brandon LeBlanc announces that Microsoft will be doing a Windows 8 upgrade promotion, where upgrades from Windows XP, Vista and 7 to Windows 8 Pro will cost just $39.99.

The catch of course is that just like last time this is a limited time offer; while Microsoft is running this promotion for far longer than the 2 weeks Windows 7's promotion ran for, this one is only going until January 31, 2013.

Now there's no obvious reason why they've made this pricing move. Perhaps it's a move to quell the outcry from users dissatisfied with the UI changes. Perhaps it's a change in pricing philosophy that treats delta updates as lower cost than a complete license; and if that's the case, could we see annual $40 upgrades a la OS X? What is certain, is that once you make this move, it's difficult to move back to a model where loyal customers have to shell out $150 to use your latest software.

[xalex0]

LOL, nice try but not completely accurate, is it?It's accurate. http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/31/microsoft-confirms-upgrade-path-and-pricing-for-windows-8/


How about $39.99 (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6065/windows-8-upgrade-will-cost-just-3999)!
With that you can upgrade all the way from XP. For $20 can you upgrade to Mountain Lion from a Mac OS version that's 10 years old?

[time space]

It's accurate. http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/31/microsoft-confirms-upgrade-path-and-pricing-for-windows-8/

Good point - though it is for a very specific set of conditions:


Anyone who buys an eligible Windows 7-based PC [after June 2nd, 2012] can purchase a Windows 8 Pro upgrade for $14.99 -- that offer will be valid through January 31st, 2013.

[kingofwale]

With that you can upgrade all the way from XP. For $20 can you upgrade to Mountain Lion from a Mac OS version that's 10 years old?

lol. 10 year?? if your Mac is even 5 year's old, you won't be able to upgrade to mountain lion. Some even as early as 2008. OUCH!!!

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/07/confirmed-mountain-lion-sends-some-64-bit-macs-gently-into-that-good-night/

[evergreen2]

I support PC

[time space]

lol. 10 year?? if your Mac is even 5 year's old, you won't be able to upgrade to mountain lion. Some even as early as 2008. OUCH!!!

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/07/confirmed-mountain-lion-sends-some-64-bit-macs-gently-into-that-good-night/

Here are the specs (http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101219084828AAc5wYf) of an average Windows computer of 10 years ago - I'm no expert on them, but I'm curious to know if it will be able to run Windows 8?


CPU: Intel Pentium III 1.2GHz / AMD Athlon XP 1.33GHz
RAM: 128-256MB
Graphics Card: ATi Radeon 7500/nVidia GeForce 2 MX
Hard Drive: 30GB
Optical Drive: CD-Burner/DVD-ROM
OS: Windows 2000/ME

[steve-0101]

Here are the specs (http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101219084828AAc5wYf) of an average Windows computer of 10 years ago - I'm no expert on them, but I'm curious to know if it will be able to run Windows 8?

It won't run it, but they'll be happy to sell it to you regardless.

[RedFoxComp]

Quite honestly with the disgusting specs of the new MBP it's like taking your money and burning it. Just go for a PC and save a bunch of money. Heck if you want a unit that looks like a Mac then get Asus Zenbook Pro. You still have about $1000 leftover to use as toilet paper.

I have to agree, I didn't used to steer people away from the MBP if they really wanted one and had the money to burn. Apple has really crossed the line with the proprietary screws, SSD, soldered in RAM and glued in batteries!.

[BrandonChow]

Get a Mac. You'll look cool.

Lol true true.

I have both and really what you need to look at is:

- Your budget (If it is flexible then you could consider a Mac)
- Your requirements and what you'll use it for (Don't expect to do any hardcore gaming on a Mac or see lots of programs that support it)

These is what you should really focus on and for me both do exactly what I intended to get them for.

[xalex0]

Here are the specs (http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101219084828AAc5wYf) of an average Windows computer of 10 years ago - I'm no expert on them, but I'm curious to know if it will be able to run Windows 8?
If there's a way to get classic desktop mode then sure. Also, the components were easier to upgrade back then.

[metap0d]

I just bought my first iMac after years of scepticism towards Apple and their products. The long story short is I was completely right.

My new iMac has an absolutely gorgeous screen and amazing design. The downside is realizing how far behind OS/X is in comparison to Windows 7 as an operating system ... it's just missing so much (Example: You literally can't adjust the settings on the built-in iSight camera without a $20 add-on). Out of the box a ridiculous amount of basic functionality is missing ... you have to spend your time googling tons of little add-on bits and pieces just to make the OS an up to date and productive piece of equipment.

The long story short is I am happy with the machine and don't regret the $1,300 or so I dropped on it, I am however very disappointed software wise that this is Apples idea of a premium product... I've seen more polished and feature rich Linux distributions. And yes, admittedly, I could have purchased a desktop with 2-3 times the computing power for the exact same price.

[rivet]

What, the screen alone is like $1000 regular price or $800 on sale, I don't think you can purchase a desktop that is 2-3 times more power for $1300 with a screen like that.


I just bought my first iMac after years of scepticism towards Apple and their products. The long story short is I was completely right.

My new iMac has an absolutely gorgeous screen and amazing design. The downside is realizing how far behind OS/X is in comparison to Windows 7 as an operating system ... it's just missing so much (Example: You literally can't adjust the settings on the built-in iSight camera without a $20 add-on). Out of the box a ridiculous amount of basic functionality is missing ... you have to spend your time googling tons of little add-on bits and pieces just to make the OS an up to date and productive piece of equipment.

The long story short is I am happy with the machine and don't regret the $1,300 or so I dropped on it, I am however very disappointed software wise that this is Apples idea of a premium product... I've seen more polished and feature rich Linux distributions. And yes, admittedly, I could have purchased a desktop with 2-3 times the computing power for the exact same price.

[time space]

Get a Mac. You'll look cool.

Just out of curiosity - what type of car do you own?

[BlackRanger3d]

I have to agree, I didn't used to steer people away from the MBP if they really wanted one and had the money to burn. Apple has really crossed the line with the proprietary screws, SSD, soldered in RAM and glued in batteries!.

This is the reason I my have to go back to the win world. Very very annoying that I can't upgrade my own machine.

[time space]

This is the reason I my have to go back to the win world. Very very annoying that I can't upgrade my own machine.

I have to agree, I didn't used to steer people away from the MBP if they really wanted one and had the money to burn. Apple has really crossed the line with the proprietary screws, SSD, soldered in RAM and glued in batteries!.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread (http://forums.redflagdeals.com/pc-mac-one-better-buy-1204290/3/#post15065642) - the dream of user upgradeability is collapsing for Windows users too...


MacBook Pro's are simple to upgrade - unscrew the bottom and pop in the new RAM (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1270#link1) or plug in the new HD (http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/MBPRO_13inch_Mid2009_Hard_Drive_DIY.pdf).

The retina MacBook Pro is the one exception because the whole computer is practically a solid state unit. It's designed this way to absolutely minimize it's size and weight - it's what is now broadly described as an "ultrabook". The same fabrication methods are used in the most advanced Windows ultrabooks (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=6289&news=asus+zenbook+ux21+ux31&p=4) too. Don't be surprised if within a decade, all portable computers follow Apple's lead, and are fabricated in this manner.

In the 2020's, most computers will be a simple disposable commodity like today's HDTV's - how many TV owners want to go messing around with taking the back panel off their 80" LCD TV's? Sure there'll still be a small market for upgradeable desktops for hobbyists - but upgradeable portable computers are going the way of the dinosaur, and fast!

[RedFoxComp]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread (http://forums.redflagdeals.com/pc-mac-one-better-buy-1204290/3/#post15065642) - the dream of user upgradeability is collapsing for Windows users too...
In the 2020's, most computers will be a simple disposable commodity like today's HDTV's - how many TV owners want to go messing around with taking the back panel off their 80" LCD TV's? Sure there'll still be a small market for upgradeable desktops for hobbyists - but upgradeable portable computers are going the way of the dinosaur, and fast!

If you want to defend a company for spending money and time into planned obsolescence, so be it. None of the limitations I brought up about the new MBP were out of necessity, they were intentionally designed to make it more difficult, expensive or impossible to repair or upgrade.

[bembol]

Super Phones, I can go either way but Desktop & NoteBook, I'm with Apple/Mac.

I'm sure most of us started with Windows, I don't know anyone who didn't. I even bought one recently, 14" Samsung UltraBook but like before Windows is a PITA.

I'm not sure if it's just between the two but with decent specs, I had trouble running iTunes which by the way I still don't understand why majority hate it. Anyways, after the 3-4 days I had to Google my it and found out I had to upgrade this/that (Drivers) and download the 64-Bit version.

I just bought my new 13" MacBook Air (128GB, 4GB RAM, etc.) two nights ago. It works out of the box, I don't have to worry about making sure this/that is upgraded or finding the right version.

The way I see it like android, Windows has to be "Rooted" for it to be great. Being a Mac user, it's not my thing.

[Ojam]

If you want to defend a company for spending money and time into planned obsolescence, so be it. None of the limitations I brought up about the new MBP were out of necessity, they were intentionally designed to make it more difficult, expensive or impossible to repair or upgrade.

The only thing you mentioned that could not be attributed to reducing the size of the machine are screws. Everything else can be attributed to an ever decreasing form factor. To be clear, they didn't just take a stick of ram and solder it to be board, the Chips are part of the board, same with SSD, I haven't read about glued in batteries, but I'd imagine that it helps them stay in place so that there is less chance of them moving even a mm.

[RedFoxComp]

The only thing you mentioned that could not be attributed to reducing the size of the machine are screws. Everything else can be attributed to an ever decreasing form factor. To be clear, they didn't just take a stick of ram and solder it to be board, the Chips are part of the board, same with SSD, I haven't read about glued in batteries, but I'd imagine that it helps them stay in place so that there is less chance of them moving even a mm.

How does soldering the ram to the board save space when there are taller components all around it, exactly how thick do you think a stick of RAM is? Also, the SSD isn't soldered to the board, they just spent money designing a proprietary connecter for no good reason when they could have used existing (and smaller) mini PCIe SSDs. As far as having to secure the batteries with glue, do you think there is an industry wide issue with loose batteries in all previous laptops, including every other macbook, up to this point?

[gilboman]

Super Phones, I can go either way but Desktop & NoteBook, I'm with Apple/Mac.

I'm sure most of us started with Windows, I don't know anyone who didn't. I even bought one recently, 14" Samsung UltraBook but like before Windows is a PITA.

I'm not sure if it's just between the two but with decent specs, I had trouble running iTunes which by the way I still don't understand why majority hate it. Anyways, after the 3-4 days I had to Google my it and found out I had to upgrade this/that (Drivers) and download the 64-Bit version.

I just bought my new 13" MacBook Air (128GB, 4GB RAM, etc.) two nights ago. It works out of the box, I don't have to worry about making sure this/that is upgraded or finding the right version.

The way I see it like android, Windows has to be "Rooted" for it to be great. Being a Mac user, it's not my thing.

But windows 7 is so far ahead of Mac OSX though... if you are stuck with mac, then you don't have a choice..but it's kinda weird if you purposely buy into an inferior product when you have a choice. It takes so many more steps in OSX to do a task that takes one or two steps in windows 7.

seems like AAPL have just been sleeping at the wheel, maybe 10 years ago, it was better than windows in ease of use and features..but it's just sad now how they've neglected their PC OS and now windows 7 is so far ahead in stability, and ease of use.

[Agafaba]

Dont think about it as PC vs Mac, the only choice you should be making is Mac OS X vs windows/Linux. Get an apple if you like OS X and get a PC if you dont, simple as that. (unless your a hipster, if you are buy a Mac and put linux on it)

[gggggggadgetguy]

I was raised on Macs, switched to PCs and now I use both. I also use a 4.1 Galaxy Nexus with an iPod touch. Here's my take on it:

If you can afford it and there are no PC specific programs you foresee yourself using, get a Mac. It really is far more streamlined, simple, beautiful and ergonomic.

However, if you can wait, I'd wait until Windows 8. PC laptops are really starting to catch up in the build department (for 80% to parity pricing, not budget) and Windows 8 will bring an operating system that some might say is on par with the streamlined nature of OSX.

[aznorange]

ow does soldering the ram to the board save space when there are taller components all around it, exactly how thick do you think a stick of RAM is? Also, the SSD isn't soldered to the board, they just spent money designing a proprietary connecter for no good reason when they could have used existing (and smaller) mini PCIe SSDs. As far as having to secure the batteries with glue, do you think there is an industry wide issue with loose batteries in all previous laptops, including every other macbook, up to this point?


I have to agree with this x10

[Ojam]

How does soldering the ram to the board save space when there are taller components all around it, exactly how thick do you think a stick of RAM is?

A stick of ram is always going to be thicker than the ram chips being directly on the board. You also lose all the space around the stick, plus the slot for the stick of ram is bigger than chips alone.



Also, the SSD isn't soldered to the board, they just spent money designing a proprietary connecter for no good reason when they could have used existing (and smaller) mini PCIe SSDs. As far as having to secure the batteries with glue, do you think there is an industry wide issue with loose batteries in all previous laptops, including every other macbook, up to this point?

If you look at the tear down, everything is made to fit together, the components are designed to fit into the small space, not the space designed around generic parts. Batteries had previously been screwed in, glue takes up less space again than screws. As been mentioned as portable computers get smaller and smaller, less generic parts are going to be used. Parts will need to be designed to fit into smaller form factors, and not the other way around. Just like in phones and slates/tablets.

The majority of the population do not upgrade their desktops, much less their laptops. For the small amount of people that want to, I'm sure there will be some nice thick options for you.

[RedFoxComp]

glue takes up less space again than screws


:lol: That pretty much sums it up. No point in taking this further.

[rocking23nf]

I just used a mac osx 10.7 for the first time, it wasnt fun. Trying to load citrix for a home user was painful. And the wireless would not connect in any fashion to WPA2, only WPA1. I like the look of the outer case, but the Os is a thumbs down from me, the lack of a network jack was very frustrating as well from an it support point of view.

[time space]

glue takes up less space again than screws

:lol: That pretty much sums it up. No point in taking this further.

I agree that this part of the discussion is at a dead end.

The interesting part will start to occur in the coming years.

Time will tell whether we see people like yourself (who are against solid state fabrication techniques in Apple computers) stand by their philosophy as it is eventually implemented in all portable computers.

Let's give this thread a bump in 2020 and see where we're at.

:)

[Dina_E]

i wonder if the same anti-apple crowd will criticize the new win 8 tablets with also use similar manufacturing as apple. where everything is soldered to the board and fused.

this is the future, smaller, faster, and cooler.

[xalex0]

this is the future, smaller, faster, and cooler.If they make them cheap enough to make them disposable then sure.

[RedFoxComp]

I wonder if the same anti-apple crowd will criticize the new win 8 tablets with also use similar manufacturing as apple.

Why am I instantly anti-apple when I don't like something they've done? Especially considering I own an previous gen MBP and 2 iphones.

That's the point, the MBP is their powerhouse laptop for video editing etc. and isn't a tablet or the smallest laptop they could make like the macbook air, where you expect those kind of trade-offs. There was no reason to do what they did except to intentionally limit the consumer and increase their revenue, that's my objection.

I will say this, some of you are really good at making lemonade.

[time space]

That's the point, the MBP is their powerhouse laptop for video editing etc. and isn't a tablet or the smallest laptop they could make like the macbook air, where you expect those kind of trade-offs.

This is where you're mistaken.

The retina MBP is indeed designed as "the smallest laptop they could make like the macbook air" except with specs worthy of a "powerhouse laptop for video editing".

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/06/newbmpretina.jpg

[Mars2012]

I bought a rMBP last weekend and it is lighter than my 13" MBP from 2010. Amazing.

[Mark77]

I had the choice between a Dell Latitude D830 5 years ago, or the current-build Macbook Pro. Price was the same, as I was able to buy Apple stuff at the Apple Employee Store in Cupertino.

I picked the Dell. Don't regret it one minute. Spare parts for the Dell cost me practically nothing and are abundant on eBay. I've replaced the battery twice on the Dell, first for $100, and subsequently for $35 each, shipped to my door. Dell on-site business service is miles ahead of Applecare. And the physical quality of the Dell build was far superior.

Dell's power connector is just as good as "magsafe", and . My laptop is equipped with a WUXGA 1920x1200 screen, something that Apple didn't start doing on their 15" laptops until very recently (making a big deal calling it a 'retina' display...when their competitors have been using better screens for years!).

And for world travellors, Apple's designs aren't very friendly. I have power adapter cords for 5 different countries in bag for my laptop -- can get the entire cords for a couple bucks a piece off of eBay. To do the same with Apple....

[Ojam]

And for world travellors, Apple's designs aren't very friendly. I have power adapter cords for 5 different countries in bag for my laptop -- can get the entire cords for a couple bucks a piece off of eBay. To do the same with Apple....

lol, you can't be serious.

http://support.apple.com/library/APPLE/APPLECARE_ALLGEOS/TS3499/TS3499---002-mul.jpg.png

or

http://www.whitegadget.com/attachments/technical-discussion/7209d1205579266-apple-world-travel-adapter-kit-685367.jpg

+

http://images.smalldog.com/phpThumb/phpThumb.php/far=1%3Baoe=0%3Bbg%3Bq=100%3B600x480%3B/apple/worldtravel_kit.jpg

= 6 different power cords in one.

No separate cord, you can just replace the prongs on the brick, and the kit works with ALL of their bricks, costs $45 for 6 adapters plus a USB cable (30 pin iPod/iPad usb cable $21 on it's own) = 7.50 per adapter.

[Mark77]

No separate cord, you can just replace the prongs on the brick, and the kit works with ALL of their bricks, costs $45 for 6 adapters plus a USB cable (30 pin iPod/iPad usb cable $21 on it's own) = 7.50 per adapter.

Oh okay... I retract my comments..

[formalentity]

I think the deciding factor is what operating system and build quality you prefer.. Personally I love Apple products, but I do think you pay premium for the design, overall I think they are worth it..

I'm sure many people will disagree with me though..

[pricecheck]

i wonder if the same anti-apple crowd will criticize the new win 8 tablets with also use similar manufacturing as apple. where everything is soldered to the board and fused.

this is the future, smaller, faster, and cooler.

You seem to have the misunderstanding that people who are anti-Apple are Microsoft/Windows fanboys. Apple fanboys will defend Apple and all its bad decision and pricing, justifying it by saying, "You get what you paid for." PC fanboys (and not Microsoft fanboys) will not stand for anything bad Microsoft does. There are a lot of people who call out Microsoft for Vista and some are referring to Windows 8 as Vista 2.0. When Microsoft makes bad decisions, you usually see no one defending them. On the other hand, when Apple continues to milk people, the rabid fanboys come out of the woodwork and fight to the death for the glory of Apple.

[charger99]

Get a mac. Pc's get viruses. Mac don't need an antivirus (not yet anyways), don't slow down as much as a pc after a year and are very easy to use.
Good luck.

[samberkun]

Macs are good but insane pricing on stuff like batteries and chargers that fall apart after a year.... honestly Im done with mac