U.S. man sues over right to flip off police officers

[bullionaire]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-man-sues-over-right-to-flip-off-police-officers/article4425163/

First off, the guy is a jerk. I'm in no way defending him. That said, if someone flipped you off on the street and you reported it to a cop nearby, do you think he'd even listen to you? Similarly, if a cop saw someone flipping you off on the street, unprovoked, would he arrest the guy? I'm aware of obstruction of justice which only applies to members of law enforcement, but how does flipping them off behind their back obstruct justice in any way?

I realize this happened in the US of A., but I'm betting the same thing would happen, if not worse, if you flipped off cops here.

Discuss.

[Piro21]

Hurting someone's feelings is not a crime, and the officer who arrested him for it should have been disciplined and ridiculed. That being said, I'm not surprised that a police department as widely corrupt as the NYPD would abuse their powers because someone flipped them off. The cops here seem to share the same "we do whatever the ***** we want, legal or not" attitude, so they'd probably do the same.

[manmanny]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-man-sues-over-right-to-flip-off-police-officers/article4425163/

First off, the guy is a jerk. I'm in no way defending him. That said, if someone flipped you off on the street and you reported it to a cop nearby, do you think he'd even listen to you? Similarly, if a cop saw someone flipping you off on the street, unprovoked, would he arrest the guy? I'm aware of obstruction of justice which only applies to members of law enforcement, but how does flipping them off behind their back obstruct justice in any way?

I realize this happened in the US of A., but I'm betting the same thing would happen, if not worse, if you flipped off cops here.

Discuss.
I think is US you ave right to flip. There was ABC news coverage on this issue and one man is doing every chance he gets. Sometime he gets a ticket but it was stated he has right to do that. Its good ol US of A.

I am under impression its same in Canada.

[sandikosh]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-man-sues-over-right-to-flip-off-police-officers/article4425163/

First off, the guy is a jerk. I'm in no way defending him. That said, if someone flipped you off on the street and you reported it to a cop nearby, do you think he'd even listen to you? Similarly, if a cop saw someone flipping you off on the street, unprovoked, would he arrest the guy? I'm aware of obstruction of justice which only applies to members of law enforcement, but how does flipping them off behind their back obstruct justice in any way?

I realize this happened in the US of A., but I'm betting the same thing would happen, if not worse, if you flipped off cops here.

Discuss.

Only in the US of A.

[willdacanucker]

Only in the US of A.
I would bet the same thing would happen here. I am more sure of that after the outstanding show of proper police etiquette at the G-20.

[spf1971]

I wonder why he mentioned being "taunted with homophobic insults"? If it's ok to give the finger to the cops, it must also be ok for them to taunt him.

That being said, while he sounds like an *****, it's not illegal to be an *****.

[Montague]

Meh.....

Yeah sure you have the right to give the bird to a bunch of bikers in a biker bar but do not be too surprised if the patrons do not take kindly to the gesture and respond.

edit: lol - the guy is a lawyer (we all know what Shakespeare thought of lawyers)

I still remember Trudeau giving the people of Salmon Arm BC the "Trudeau one finger salute" while he was PM.

[Qbit]

Meh.....

Yeah sure you have the right to give the bird to a bunch of bikers in a biker bar but do not be too surprised if the patrons do not take kindly to the gesture and respond.

Yes because those are the standards that the public should be holding cops to. Bikers in a biker bar.

[Piro21]

I wonder why he mentioned being "taunted with homophobic insults"? If it's ok to give the finger to the cops, it must also be ok for them to taunt him.

That being said, while he sounds like an *****, it's not illegal to be an *****.

Considering he got hauled off to a prison cell for hurting someone's feelings, isn't it only natural to get someone else hauled off to a prison cell for hurting his?

[LordofthePing]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yioHCL7uKYs

It's from the Jurassic era of the internet, but a goodie.

[willdacanucker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yioHCL7uKYs

It's from the Jurassic era of the internet, but a goodie.

I am almost positive that was fake.

[Xiaohaibao]

“As a result of the defendants’ conduct, Mr. Bell legitimately fears he will be unable to gain admission to the law school(s) of his choice since the preferred schools require the applicant to disclose the facts underlying any arrest,” the suit alleges.
Good, what he did displayed a very low level of maturity, and someone that immature shouldn't be permitted into the top law schools. It would be one thing if he was having an argument with the cop and THEN he flipped him off, but to flip off some random cop who he didn't know just because he was a cop, wtf...

[Xiaohaibao]

First off, the guy is a jerk. I'm in no way defending him. That said, if someone flipped you off on the street and you reported it to a cop nearby, do you think he'd even listen to you? Similarly, if a cop saw someone flipping you off on the street, unprovoked, would he arrest the guy? I'm aware of obstruction of justice which only applies to members of law enforcement, but how does flipping them off behind their back obstruct justice in any way?

That's not really a good comparison. If someone flips off you or me, no big deal. But if someone flips off a cop, that makes the cop appear less powerful to people who witness the act, so something needs to be done to regain that power, in this case the arrest of the guy.

[Syne]

Pretty sure Xiaohiabao is Hitman.

[spf1971]

Considering he got hauled off to a prison cell for hurting someone's feelings, isn't it only natural to get someone else hauled off to a prison cell for hurting his?

It's not about hurting someone's feeling, it's about decorum; flip off a judge in a courthouse and see what happens. According to the guy, he was charged with causing public alarm and annoyance in a large crowd; I assume that would be similar to yelling fire in a crowded area. Not having been there I can't really comment on the legitimacy of it but it seems to be kind of weak for an arrest. Unless he was following them around and causing a disturbance, they would have much better off ignoring him. By actually reacting to him, they have given legitimacy to what he did and encouraged him to continue but if his argument is that it is his first amendment right to be insulting, then that right must extend to anyone who insulted him.

All of that being said; flipping someone off simply because of their occupation is pretty childish. This guy wants to be a lawyer and that's his maturity level? This whole incident sounds to be like a case of "I know you are but what am I". I'd be embarrassed to be on either side.

[stealth]

That's not really a good comparison. If someone flips off you or me, no big deal. But if someone flips off a cop, that makes the cop appear less powerful to people who witness the act, so something needs to be done to regain that power, in this case the arrest of the guy.
Cops exist to serve and protect the public, not exert dominion over the public.

[tsxnation]

What are the consequences of flipping a cop the bird in Ontario? I doubt it would be illegal.

[stealth]

What are the consequences of flipping a cop the bird in Ontario? I doubt it would be illegal.

My hunch is they would view it as an invitation to hassle you, so kind of a dumb thing to do.

I personally don't see the point in just doing it randomly...save it for a cop that actually deserves it, not the one that may end up giving CPR to one of your loved ones some day. Some cops are actually really decent ppl.

[zz000ter]

Cops exist to serve and protect the public, not exert dominion over the public.

Yup

Freedom of speech!
I can give a bus driver the bird - so why can't I give it to a cop?

[stealth]

Yup

Freedom of speech!
I can give a bus driver the bird - so why can't I give it to a cop?
I agree, the law shouldn't be any different, whether it's a bus driver or a cop. But be careful of developing bad new habits....in the near future if you do it to someone of a different race, it will likely be considered a hate crime.

[wilsonlam97]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yioHCL7uKYs

It's from the Jurassic era of the internet, but a goodie.

He yolo'ed.

[wilsonlam97]

Yup

Freedom of speech!
I can give a bus driver the bird - so why can't I give it to a cop?

Okay that I've done lol

[wilsonlam97]

My hunch is they would view it as an invitation to hassle you, so kind of a dumb thing to do.

I personally don't see the point in just doing it randomly...save it for a cop that actually deserves it, not the one that may end up giving CPR to one of your loved ones some day. Some cops are actually really decent ppl.

+1, in Toronto not all of them are bad.

[LaserEnvy]

Pretty sure Xiaohiabao is Hitman.

lol

[LaserEnvy]

+1, in Toronto not all of them are bad.

The only nice or honest cops are the newbies. After 2 years max, they become fully corrupted and power drunk. Same with TTC bus drivers.

[Nook]

I wonder why he mentioned being "taunted with homophobic insults"? If it's ok to give the finger to the cops, it must also be ok for them to taunt him.

That being said, while he sounds like an *****, it's not illegal to be an *****.
Not quite because they represent the taxpayer-funded police department and in respect, the city as well. As a professional still in your uniform, your right to free speech is restricted.

[Nook]

Cops exist to serve and protect the public, not exert dominion over the public.
+1


The only nice or honest cops are the newbies. After 2 years max, they become fully corrupted and power drunk. Same with TTC bus drivers.
It's the brotherhood mentality kicking in that ruins them.

[spf1971]

Not quite because they represent the taxpayer-funded police department and in respect, the city as well. As a professional still in your uniform, your right to free speech is restricted.

In that case he isn't flipping off an individual cop, he is flipping off the police department, taxpayers and the city. As someone who is representing all of those organizations, he should be protected from harassment. If I went into an office and started insulting the staff, I would be quickly kicked out of the office. The police can't exactly kick you off of the street.

[spf1971]

+1


It's the brotherhood mentality kicking in that ruins them.

I would say it's guys like in this story that "ruin" them. The one and only reason this guy gave the cop the finger is because of the fact that it was a cop. He is the one who created the separation between "us and them"; had he treated them like an individual instead of one separate group, maybe they wouldn't act like one separate group.

[vero95]

In that case he isn't flipping off an individual cop, he is flipping off the police department, taxpayers and the city. As someone who is representing all of those organizations, he should be protected from harassment. If I went into an office and started insulting the staff, I would be quickly kicked out of the office. The police can't exactly kick you off of the street.

should not the cop lay charges instead of providing punishement then?
cops should not use force unless threatened, no? was he threatened or just humiliated?

[hdave]

What the guy did was pretty immature and cowardly (since he couldn't even do it in front of them).
But what about his freedom to express himself? Are they trying to hold him down?

Its incidents like this that makes people hate cops, rightfully so.
I'm not a criminal or a thug, I hate most cops simply because they are usually morons who just have power they feel they need to exert.





I wonder why he mentioned being "taunted with homophobic insults"? If it's ok to give the finger to the cops, it must also be ok for them to taunt him.

That being said, while he sounds like an *****, it's not illegal to be an *****.

I guess that was mentioned to show how immature the cops themselves are.



That's not really a good comparison. If someone flips off you or me, no big deal. But if someone flips off a cop, that makes the cop appear less powerful to people who witness the act, so something needs to be done to regain that power, in this case the arrest of the guy.

That is the stupidest thing I have heard.
We don't live in a police state, they are not here to control us.



Cops exist to serve and protect the public, not exert dominion over the public.

+1

[spf1971]

should not the cop lay charges instead of providing punishement then?
cops should not use force unless threatened, no? was he threatened or just humiliated?

What force did the cop use? The guy was arrested. While I don't think he should have been arrested, I am playing devils advocate because this is already turning into a "All cops are crooked" thread. There are no winners in this story, neither side acted appropriately. The main thing that annoys me about cased like this is that you have a person who does something to elicit a response. Then they whine and complain about getting a response.

[spf1971]

What the guy did was pretty immature and cowardly (since he couldn't even do it in front of them).
But what about his freedom to express himself? Are they trying to hold him down?

Its incidents like this that makes people hate cops, rightfully so.
I'm not a criminal or a thug, I hate most cops simply because they are usually morons who just have power they feel they need to exert.




Generally I find that people who claim to hate cops because they are morons, are whiners who have been caught doing something they shouldn't have done. Instead of recognizing and admitting their own faults, they blame everyone else. How many cops do you actually know? If you have had enough exposure to the police to be able to form a negative opinion and state that "most are..." you must have had a few run in's. I think your statement probably says more about you than it does about the police.

[longitude]

Cops exist to serve and protect the public, not exert dominion over the public.

+1

[vero95]

What force did the cop use? The guy was arrested. While I don't think he should have been arrested, I am playing devils advocate because this is already turning into a "All cops are crooked" thread. There are no winners in this story, neither side acted appropriately. The main thing that annoys me about cased like this is that you have a person who does something to elicit a response. Then they whine and complain about getting a response.

I was talkign about the guy in the video
not everyone has a right to respond like the cop, no? wouldn't you be charged?

[bullionaire]

should not the cop lay charges instead of providing punishement then?
cops should not use force unless threatened, no? was he threatened or just humiliated?

His ego was threatened. :D

[bullionaire]

What are the consequences of flipping a cop the bird in Ontario? I doubt it would be illegal.

See for yourself and let us know. :D

More seriously though, they'd try to find a reason to be suspicious of you, arrest you, put you in a holding cell, and strip-search you.

[Simaahoy]

you can atually get a ticket in canada if you do the same thing...

[hdave]

Generally I find that people who claim to hate cops because they are morons, are whiners who have been caught doing something they shouldn't have done. Instead of recognizing and admitting their own faults, they blame everyone else. How many cops do you actually know? If you have had enough exposure to the police to be able to form a negative opinion and state that "most are..." you must have had a few run in's. I think your statement probably says more about you than it does about the police.

I definitely see where you are coming from with that statement, I would normally think the same of people.
But I am not a thug, or thug type, I have minimal contact with cops (usually just when I get pulled over for speeding), but for the most part it hasn't been good.

There are definitely nice cops out there that want to do the right thing, but from the ones I've encounter, most of them are idiots.

Incidents:
-(I was there) A kid in my high school got punched by a cop for absolutely no reason. The guys were hanging out in front on a plaza, the cops told them to get lost. So they left. As they were walking away, the cops were making fun of them calling them p*ssies and followed them to a field near by. Stopped them again, told them that the cops are the biggest gang in town, one of the kids spit on the floor at that comment, so a cop took a book or pad or something, put it next to the guys face, and punched it really hard. The cops laughed and left.
They were wannabe thug types, but still no excuse for the cops behavior

-My friends were lost and in a random parking lot trying to find directions somewhere, cops came and talked to them and gave them directions. Those directions lead them to some dead end in the middle of nowhere.

- I was pulled over on the way to Niagara for "driving dangerously fast in the left lane and using a flashing red light in my car to make other cars move out of the way". (In reality, i wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary, I was speeding, but like 120 with the rest of traffic).
They asked me and all of my friends in the car to get out, searched us all, searched the car and were VERY rude and abrasive while doing that. Finally they found nothing so I assumed they would realize their mistake and apologize. But no. they yelled more saying if they kept looking they would have found it, and that if they get any more f*ckery out of me, I'm getting a careless driving ticket and getting f*cked.
A tow truck driver had apparently seen me doing this and followed me and called the cops. I am guessing he confused my car for another car, and all of the f*cktards didn't want to admit their mistake.
One of the cops was nice, the rest were all major asses.

Generalization time:
-Most cops are idiot bully's who found that being a cop is the easiest way to maintain some sort of power.
-This is stopping with the newer generation of cops since it is now very competitive and difficult to become a cop without any post secondary education, and they actually try to weed out the bully type.

[spf1971]

Of your 4 examples, one was that the instruction that the police gave turned out to be wrong. Even assuming your friends followed the directions right; giving bad directions make you a bully, a moron and power tripping? The other two involved you doing something you shouldn't have been doing and getting punished! Which is exactly what I said.

As I previously said, and you freely admitted in your response; most people who have bad opinions of police are as a result of getting caught doing something they shouldn't have done and getting penalized for it. Sorry princess, you're not special.

[hdave]

Of your 4 examples, one was that the instruction that the police gave turned out to be wrong. Even assuming your friends followed the directions right; giving bad directions make you a bully, a moron and power tripping? The other two involved you doing something you shouldn't have been doing and getting punished! Which is exactly what I said.

As I previously said, and you freely admitted in your response; most people who have bad opinions of police are as a result of getting caught doing something they shouldn't have done and getting penalized for it. Sorry princess, you're not special.


You and i obviously have a different idea of what is warranted by cops. Are you a cop? have a friend/relative that is a cop?
I see you live in newfoundland, I am guessing the cops in smaller places are much nicer than in the city.

first one i wasn't involved at all, i just watched.
those wannabe thugs did nothing, in fact they left when they were told to get lost. it was the cops that followed them.
Does spitting on the ground in disrespect warrant a punch in the face? Is that the punishment for spitting?

second one, could definitely be misunderstood directions. I just don't think it was.

third one, i was going with the flow of traffic at 120. That's what you can say I did wrong, but then so was everyone else.
not sure if this is news or not, but in some places, everyone goes faster than the speed limit and no one does anything.
I wouldn't normally get pulled over for it.

they assumed i had a red flashing light, that is why i was pulled over.
they assumed wrong. they searched my car for like 20 minutes and found nothing.
instead of apologizing or even just letting me on my way, they had to be *****s and still threaten me.
(although at that point, one of them turned nice and said they didnt find it and it might have been someone else so I should be on the road soon)

[vero95]

Of your 4 examples, one was that the instruction that the police gave turned out to be wrong. Even assuming your friends followed the directions right; giving bad directions make you a bully, a moron and power tripping? The other two involved you doing something you shouldn't have been doing and getting punished! Which is exactly what I said.

As I previously said, and you freely admitted in your response; most people who have bad opinions of police are as a result of getting caught doing something they shouldn't have done and getting penalized for it. Sorry princess, you're not special.

I guess what he is trying to say is the penalty was not proportional to the offense
from my own experience I'd also say that 50% of cops are bullies

[webdoctors]

i'd have more respect if the cop ignored it, kinda like the ppl that protest outside military bases or parliament, calling them baby killers. They're jerks but they dont get arrested.

Ppl fought for freedom of speech so ppl are free to disagree with them.

[bullionaire]

- I was pulled over on the way to Niagara for "driving dangerously fast in the left lane and using a flashing red light in my car to make other cars move out of the way". (In reality, i wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary, I was speeding, but like 120 with the rest of traffic).
They asked me and all of my friends in the car to get out, searched us all, searched the car and were VERY rude and abrasive while doing that. Finally they found nothing so I assumed they would realize their mistake and apologize. But no. they yelled more saying if they kept looking they would have found it, and that if they get any more f*ckery out of me, I'm getting a careless driving ticket and getting f*cked.
A tow truck driver had apparently seen me doing this and followed me and called the cops. I am guessing he confused my car for another car, and all of the f*cktards didn't want to admit their mistake.
One of the cops was nice, the rest were all major asses.

You're in your early-to-mid 20's, dark-skinned, aren't you? I'm asking since you might've been racially profiled there.

[Nook]

I would say it's guys like in this story that "ruin" them. The one and only reason this guy gave the cop the finger is because of the fact that it was a cop. He is the one who created the separation between "us and them"; had he treated them like an individual instead of one separate group, maybe they wouldn't act like one separate group.

Nevertheless, an insult to the police department cannot be retaliated with illegal harassment and arrests. You have a right to bash the police or any organization in a non-threatening manner; they don't have the right to take you in under false charges, intimidate you on government property and then release you for their enjoyment.

[Qbit]

Why isn't "grow thicker skin" the default response from everyone?

Every time someone posts a thread here about being offended by somebody else, that's what the typical response is. Cops aren't special.

[vero95]

Why isn't "grow thicker skin" the default response from everyone?

Every time someone posts a thread here about being offended by somebody else, that's what the typical response is. Cops aren't special.

cops are trained to handle stressful situations, no?

[Qbit]

cops are trained to handle stressful situations, no?

Exactly. Those cops need to grow a thicker skin. There are people out there that would do more than hurt their precious feelings.

[D-Roc]

With all of the constant crap, ridicule, etc that they have to deal with on a daily basis, I am not surprised that it reaches their breaking point and they act. There is only so far you can push before it pushes back.

[vero95]

With all of the constant crap, ridicule, etc that they have to deal with on a daily basis, I am not surprised that it reaches their breaking point and they act. There is only so far you can push before it pushes back.

when a regular citizen is stressed out, he goes to the gym :facepalm:
stress is not an excuse