Low mileage cars that sit - why is it bad?

[Mayosandwich]

I was told a car that sits most of the time and not driven much and when, only short distances is actually rougher on the car than a car thats driven daily. Is that true? Like a lot of retired folks may only put on maybe 100km a week using it as a grocery getter thats down the street 5km away.

Build up in your exchaust, rubber bushings, seals and gaskets can dry out, brakes can rust? What else?

For instance my bro in law has a 08 Audi TT that bought brand new for over 50k. Hes had it for 4 years now and it has just over 3800KM. Its only driven in the summer and since he doesnt even work in the city and only is at home for a couple days every month, it pretty much sits in the garage 350-355 days out of the year. He said he drives it maybe 1000KM a year. They actually have 3 cars, one daily driver, and the other two being his, which his second car is a SUV used as his winter beater, maybe driven 10-15 times a year.

On the Audi TT hes still on the original fluids and oil, hasnt had an oil change yet. During the winter he doesnt unplug the battery or drain the gas tank. It sits from Nov to May every year and then driven 10-15 times in the summer.

Now everyone always puts so much emphasis on a cars milage and that it means everything when it doesnt.

For those who do buy low milage cars thats been sitting 95% of the year. What precautions have to be taken? Cause you obviously have to take different precautions vs a car thats a DD.

[Ironsmack]

Personally me, i dont have a problem when the car has a low mileage, rarely driven, taken care off - but garaged.

Its another thing when its rarely driven and parked outside during the winter/summer. Freezing and thawing can damage parts of the car.

Ive always make it a habit that if i buy a used car (whether its low/high mileage), i changed the fluids and inspect/replaced parts if need be.

[Mayosandwich]

Personally me, i dont have a problem when the car has a low mileage, rarely driven, taken care off - but garaged.

Its another thing when its rarely driven and parked outside during the winter/summer. Freezing and thawing can damage parts of the car.

Ive always make it a habit that if i buy a used car (whether its low/high mileage), i changed the fluids and inspect/replaced parts if need be.

Well a ton of older folks have a big misconception. They think fluids only need to be changed in the milage interval, and if car is sitting it doesnt do anything to the fluids cause they all go by the dealer maintenance schedule.

So if theyre driving 300km a month, then theyre changing their oil every 2 years.

[poedua]

I was told a car that sits most of the time and not driven much and when, only short distances is actually rougher on the car than a car thats driven daily. Is that true?

Yup..it very well may be.

For some of the possible reasons as to why very low mileage cars may not the best option ...see the article below..


" that car owned by an elderly couple who only drive it for shopping, to the doctors and on Sunday to church may have problems lurking below its like-new body and interior. ......"

http://newcarbuyingguide.com/index.php/news/main/4938/event=view.

[Mayosandwich]

Yup..it very well may be.

For some of the possible reasons as to why very low mileage cars may not the best option ...see the article below..


" that car owned by an elderly couple who only drive it for shopping, to the doctors and on Sunday to church may have problems lurking below its like-new body and interior. ......"

http://newcarbuyingguide.com/index.php/news/main/4938/event=view.

Low milage is obviously very visually appealing to everyone but I dont know if i would ever take a chance on one, would you? especially if its parked outside in the -30 deep freeze and +30 heat like Ironsmack said, that has to be rough on the car components. And isnt it true that the more a car sits, the more prone it is to leaks?

I notice people who sell super low milage cars think they can get top dollar for the car for the sole reason that its super low milage. But i would think a car that sits most of the time has to take a hit in its value.

[Jimbobs]

... only short distances is actually rougher on the car than a car thats driven daily. Is that true? ...

Yes, it's true. When a modern car is started up, it runs in what is called open-loop mode and doesn't switch into closed-loop mode until it has warmed up properly. Short trips can be bad for the engine and cars that do mainly short trips suffer from carbon buildup, premature exhaust failure, etc. Having said that, the situation is very much better than it was, say, 10 or 15 years ago as control systems, materials, manufacturing processes have improved dramatically.


....On the Audi TT hes still on the original fluids and oil, hasnt had an oil change yet

Most if not all manufacturers will advise oil changes on an either/or basis. For example, every 12,500km or 12 months. Although I believe Audi recommends sythetic oil which does not break down like regular oil. Still the other fluids should be changed at recommended intervals.

[Mayosandwich]

Yes, it's true. When a modern car is started up, it runs in what is called open-loop mode and doesn't switch into closed-loop mode until it has warmed up properly. Short trips can be bad for the engine and cars that do mainly short trips suffer from carbon buildup, premature exhaust failure, etc. Having said that, the situation is very much better than it was, say, 10 or 15 years ago as control systems, materials, manufacturing processes have improved dramatically.



Most if not all manufacturers will advise oil changes on an either/or basis. For example, every 12,500km or 12 months. Although I believe Audi recommends sythetic oil which does not break down like regular oil. Still the other fluids should be changed at recommended intervals.

Most people i know (aside from the car gurus), never follow their scheduled maintainance. My sisters last car, she pretty much destroyed, not only did she drive it into the ground and like a race car but after 9 years owning it, she still had the original coolant, brake, power steering and trans fluids in the car.:-0 All black as coal. She bought another car a year ago, 4yrs used, and only thing shes done to it so far is an oil change. When I get my coolant, brake and powersteering flushed every 3 years she laughs and says im just wasting money.

[canadian250]

Most people i know (aside from the car gurus), never follow their scheduled maintainance. My sisters last car, she pretty much destroyed, not only did she drive it into the ground and like a race car but after 9 years owning it, she still had the original coolant, brake, power steering and trans fluids in the car.:-0 All black as coal. She bought another car a year ago, 4yrs used, and only thing shes done to it so far is an oil change. When I get my coolant, brake and powersteering flushed every 3 years she laughs and says im just wasting money.

How exactly did your sister's car die? Whst problem caused her to get rid of it?

[Mayosandwich]

How exactly did your sister's car die? Whst problem caused her to get rid of it?

The car still runs but it sounds like a dying cat, its horrible. You hear it run and even a deaf person can tell that the car hasnt been maintained at all. Her hyraulic system is messed, the brakes dont work properly i guess, due to her always braking and driving like shes on a F1 world race track. If you think youve seen or know anyone who is an aggressive driver, they dont compare to my sis haha. She is literally pedal to the metal 24/7, redlining at 6000, 7000rpms, hard on the brakes from stop to stop. I cant even be in the car with her, i get dizzy when I get out due to my head constantly whipping back and fourth and then left and right when she takes turns at 5000rpms. I honestly cant believe the thing even runs or even drives straight, she hits so many massive potholes and sidewalks dead on that her alignment has to be way out of whack.

She still has it but her hubby drives it for now. She wants to drive it til it falls apart, which it just about has. But still no excuse for neglecting maintenance cause its a safety risk. No way that car passes a safety inspection.

[Canuck2fan]

If the car was parked on grass for any period it will be a rust bucket underneath from the excessive condensation, seen this happen more than once. On a paved driveway not nearly as much condensation but a garage would still be best.... Fluids have to be changed at certain times regardless of mileage. If the owner could prove they followd the manufacturers time frames I might give them an extra 2 or 3 percent, over a car with 50k more it but that would be about it.

[macnut]

Build up in your exchaust, rubber bushings, seals and gaskets can dry out, brakes can rust? What else?



Cars are like people and dogs - they fare best when exercised hard on a daily basis.

As poedua's link says, it's not so much the number of kms. on the odometer that's important, it's how those kms. were accumulated.

Some cars may not be fully warmed up until you've driven over 10km. or about 15 minutes or more.

If the water vapour in the engine doesn't get burnt off, it condenses and dilutes the oil.

That may be why low-mileage drivers brag that they never use any oil - they are unwittingly adding water to it.

Brake pads/linings can get glazed if not applied hard now and again, which leads to reduced performance just when you really need them.

The bro in-law's Audi TT is probably alright as it gets driven hard on the few occasions it is used. Nothing much wrong with winter storage - if done right.
(But no low-miles oil changes would mean that's one used buy I would steer clear of when it comes on the market.)

I'd also pass on the old folk's car that was just used daily for very short trips to the grocery store, the casino, and church - all that ingress and egress can age the seats and door mouldings more than you'd think.

[Jimbobs]

Mayosandwich's sisters experience is typical of newer cars that were previously taken care of and well maintained. You can treat it badly for years until it begins to look bad and run even worse. Some people care about this, others don't. However, if you need a reliable car that will not let you down, this is not the way to go.

If the manufacturer says change the oil every 12,500km, then doing it every 20,000 will probably not make much difference. Many high end cars analyze the oil and notify you when a change is needed.

Steering and brake fluids are supposed to be done every two years but very few people do that. Even my enthusiast friends only do it if they are doing a major brake job.

[poedua]

Mayosandwich's sisters experience is typical of newer cars that were previously taken care of and well maintained. You can treat it badly for years until it begins to look bad and run even worse. Some people care about this, others don't. However, if you need a reliable car that will not let you down, this is not the way to go.

If the manufacturer says change the oil every 12,500km, then doing it every 20,000 will probably not make much difference. Many high end cars analyze the oil and notify you when a change is needed.

Steering and brake fluids are supposed to be done every two years but very few people do that. Even my enthusiast friends only do it if they are doing a major brake job.

If you're leasing ...who gives a crap...do the absolute minimum maintenance with the cheapest parts and fluids you can find that meet spec.

If you're buying and want to hold on to your car for a long time and want to keep it in as ' pristine ' condition as possible, then that's another story.

The manufacturer's maintenance recommendations would be the absolute minimum that I would follow if I wanted to hold on to my car for a long time....personally, I view manufacturer's maintenance recommendations as the minimum requirements to get you past the basic warranty period trouble free..and that's about it.

Case in point - changing automatic transmission fluid

Most manufacturers call for a ' drain and fill ' of automatic transmission fluid every 50,000 km. However, given the nature of automatic transmissions, a simple ' drain and fill ' will only remove somewhere around 30% or so of the old fluid. Meaning, when you have a manufacturer's maintenance recommendation transmission service done, you still drive away with 70% old fluid in your transmission. Again, if you're leasing, a ' drain and fill ' is the way to go. But, if you want to get the longest life out of your transmission as possible, a 100% fluid exchange every 50,00 km where you replace 100% of the old fluid with 100% new fluid ( which is what I do ) simply makes more sense...IMHO.

[Possum77]

low ileage driven cars have premature exhaust rust and battery problem.

[kingrukus]

I bought a car with very low mileage for it's age, which sat for 4-5 years before I bought it. However it was very well maintained, and stored correctly. I have had no issues with it since I bought it, and already put on 15k on it.

[Mayosandwich]

I'd also pass on the old folk's car that was just used daily for very short trips to the grocery store, the casino, and church - all that ingress and egress can age the seats and door mouldings more than you'd think.

What do you mean by that? And I would think that a car say 4 or 5 years old thats only been used as a grocery getter, 100km a week, with it sitting on the driveway, has probably quite a bit of carbon build up inside.

[macnut]

What do you mean by that?

I mean that as a further example of how a car is used that's important, even if it is low mileage and only a few years old.

Old people especially, but others too, can be hard on a car just by the way they get in and out of it.

Continually grabbing hold of the door moulding or seat material in one place can create premature wear - and that's the sort of thing that is not quick and cheap to replace.

Similarly, drivers who have all their keys on one ring with the car key can put undue stress on the ignition switch which can lead to looseness and intermittent starting problems.

Not everyone is going to treat their vehicle perfectly, but it's as well to be aware of these things when looking at a used vehicle, even if it is low miles.

[Mark77]

I have a car with low km's (relatively speaking), but is 20 years old. Finding parts is a significant problem in many cases (and its a domestic). Can't imagine how hard it might be to find a part off of some 20-year-old Audi for which 95% of the fleet probably has been scrapped and long forgotten about.


That may be why low-mileage drivers brag that they never use any oil - they are unwittingly adding water to it.


Yeah which takes all of 2 or 3 minutes to evaporate once the engine is running, if even.