Building a basic server

[Jasonandme]

I am wondering how much it usually cost to build a basic server that supports over 32GB RAM and over.
I dont have much experience in this, so any advice will be appreciated.

It will be mainly used as a VPS for personal use / remote staffs; running windows etc.

Otherwise, would it be wiser to build 2x 16GB desktop?


Thanks

[wilsonlam97]

I am wondering how much it usually cost to build a basic server that supports over 32GB RAM and over.
I dont have much experience in this, so any advice will be appreciated.

It will be mainly used as a VPS for personal use / remote staffs; running windows etc.

Otherwise, would it be wiser to build 2x 16GB desktop?


Thanks

$2000-4000?

There are Mac Pro offerings that would support that much ram and in a single system it would be more efficient than two seperate machines (and potentially cheaper).

If you build your own you could probably do it in the $1000 range. Start looking for motherboards that actually support 32GB of ram and build from that. Example mobo: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8P67_LE/#specifications

[xalex0]

get a desktop with 4x8GB

[Mark77]

Yeah if you do 4x8gb, you can build a machine for $500 or so. ie:

Intel H67 Mobo -- $60
Low-end Sandy Bridge chip -- $40
4x8gb RAM -- $200
$200 -- PSU, case.

32gb is nothing these days. Even the costs of going to an 8-slot motherboard isn't a lot -- LGA2011 setups are roughly $250 for the board and $300 for the processor.

Personally if you're gonna remote into it, I'd suggest something with an out-of-band management interface, whether it be Intel AMT (Q67/Q77 chipsets), or the IMT that's available on other boards such as from vendors such as SuperMicro. Basically this lets you VNC/Remote Desktop into the machine at basically a hardware level without even having any user software running on the machine.

edit: for VPS use, I'd strongly recommend a CPU that has the proper Intel/AMD virtualization suite (Intel VT / AMD-V) -- the IOMMU isn't strictly necessary though.

[george__]

May I recommend the...
NORCO RPC-4224U

It is a VERY SOUND investment especially once you start going into the 10+ hard drive range...

Also a i3 should be enough CPU wise. Just beef up on memory especially if you're going to use ZFS

[Jasonandme]

Yeah if you do 4x8gb, you can build a machine for $500 or so. ie:

Intel H67 Mobo -- $60
Low-end Sandy Bridge chip -- $40
4x8gb RAM -- $200
$200 -- PSU, case.

32gb is nothing these days. Even the costs of going to an 8-slot motherboard isn't a lot -- LGA2011 setups are roughly $250 for the board and $300 for the processor.

Personally if you're gonna remote into it, I'd suggest something with an out-of-band management interface, whether it be Intel AMT (Q67/Q77 chipsets), or the IMT that's available on other boards such as from vendors such as SuperMicro. Basically this lets you VNC/Remote Desktop into the machine at basically a hardware level without even having any user software running on the machine.

edit: for VPS use, I'd strongly recommend a CPU that has the proper Intel/AMD virtualization suite (Intel VT / AMD-V) -- the IOMMU isn't strictly necessary though.

Thanks for the advice guys.
I didnt notice a regular desktop can support 4 x 8GB?
Whats the MAXIMIUM # of RAM a desktop can support these days?

I have no networking knowledge etc. I was simply planning to get 32GB RAM + decent CPU.
Install Windows 7 on it as main OS (so i can use it myself as well). Install VMware, setup 3-4 workstations and assign 4GB RAMs to each.

Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks

[george__]

MAXIMUM # of ram depends on the motherboard.
Like the MSI's X79A-GD45 can do 128GB of ram.
Why are you going to use Windows for a server? Why not linux + virtualbox?

[Mark77]

Thanks for the advice guys.
I didnt notice a regular desktop can support 4 x 8GB?
Whats the MAXIMIUM # of RAM a desktop can support these days?


Consumer LGA1055 boards are generally good for 32gb (4 sticks) although some budget models only have 2 slots.

LGA2011 boards can be found with either 4 or 8 stick configurations, up to 64gb



I have no networking knowledge etc. I was simply planning to get 32GB RAM + decent CPU.


If you're really going to get heavily involved in VMware, I'd suggest sticking to the Intel NICs. The Realteks that are bundled as onboard hardware with a lot of the LGA1055 boards aren't very compatible with VMware.

Generally with VMware, you'd want to use the ESX version as the 'hypervisor', and then install guest operating systems under it. You could also try out Virtualbox which works pretty good as well (and is free).

I basically run Linux and Virtualbox myself, with a half-dozen VMs on a 16gb RAM machine without problems. (32-bit kernel of Linux too...but that's a whole 'nother issue). Is this thing just for your house, or are you intending to stick it into a datacentre or some other lights-out arrangement?



Install Windows 7 on it as main OS (so i can use it myself as well). Install VMware, setup 3-4 workstations and assign 4GB RAMs to each.


Yeah that'd work.. Just stick to the Intel NIC hardware if you can. I'd suggest you get something that will run VT-d as well if you're going to be using this machine to tinker on a lot -- for the IOMMU support. You'll need a chipset that supports vt-d, a processor that supports vt-d/IOMMU, and a motherboard with firmware that supports vt-d/iommu as well.

[Mark77]

MAXIMUM # of ram depends on the motherboard.
Like the MSI's X79A-GD45 can do 128GB of ram.
Why are you going to use Windows for a server? Why not linux + virtualbox?

Windows + virtualbox works surprisingly well actually... Since he hasn't mentioned Linux.... If I'm reading him correctly, he wants a big toy to learn on at this point -- maybe try a few different virtualizers, hypervisors, maybe KVM or qemu on Linux and Vbox, etc. Its not really a serious production environment he's looking to quote out, but I'd definitely aim to get hardware capable of IOMMU/vt-d at this point simply so he can tinker with PCI pass-through and that sort of stuff in the future.

One issue that people run into with Windows in the virtualization environment is licensing...

[george__]

Windows + virtualbox works surprisingly well actually... Since he hasn't mentioned Linux.... If I'm reading him correctly, he wants a big toy to learn on at this point -- maybe try a few different virtualizers, hypervisors, maybe KVM or qemu on Linux and Vbox, etc. Its not really a serious production environment he's looking to quote out, but I'd definitely aim to get hardware capable of IOMMU/vt-d at this point simply so he can tinker with PCI pass-through and that sort of stuff in the future.

One issue that people run into with Windows in the virtualization environment is licensing...

Isn't VMWARE not free also? But yeah Windows and Virtualbox is good choice too :D. I just mentioned Linux because Windows OS so freaken hugee

@OP don't forget about the case I mentioned... Sound investment :P

[Jasonandme]

Thanks again guys.

I dont think i will ever need 10+ hard-drive.
I will be using it to run lots of apps, lots of data and stats

I guess i should rephrase what I want; a VERY POWERFUL desktop for data processing
pehaps this should give everyone a better idea.

I know linux would be a better base (as OS). But I dont have much knowledge on it.
I never tried virtualbox neither, but i am only using it for 'general' and 'basic' use. So I guess any virtual-os will work.

Is virtualbox much better than VMworkstation? Thx

[george__]

@Jasonandme - Probably depends on what you're going to use the virtual machines for. For general and basic use, I think virtualbox will do fine... https://www.virtualbox.org/

[Jasonandme]

@Jasonandme - Probably depends on what you're going to use the virtual machines for. For general and basic use, I think virtualbox will do fine... https://www.virtualbox.org/

Thanks george.
Can you please provide some suggestions on how I should build this with minimal budget.
As discussed, i really dont need anything fancy, other than RAM and a decent CPU (that supports hyper-threading).
Dont think i will need any video card (since i am not using it for gaming or graphics production).

Thanks

[george__]

Thanks george.
Can you please provide some suggestions on how I should build this with minimal budget.
As discussed, i really dont need anything fancy, other than RAM and a decent CPU (that supports hyper-threading).
Dont think i will need any video card (since i am not using it for gaming or graphics production).

Thanks

Hmm - just look up at the previous posts like what Mark77 wrote. But don't go with a i3 (probably not enough power) for running virtual machines...
What operating systems are you going to virtual machine?

[Jasonandme]

Hmm - just look up at the previous posts like what Mark77 wrote. But don't go with a i3 (probably not enough power) for running virtual machines...
What operating systems are you going to virtual machine?

Probably Windows XP - knowing that it doesnt eat up as much resources as Vista/7

Thanks.

[xalex0]

I guess i should rephrase what I want; a VERY POWERFUL desktop for data processing
pehaps this should give everyone a better idea.Any chance you could use GPUs for that?

[Mark77]

Any chance you could use GPUs for that?

:lol: :lol:

[george__]

If the OP going to use adobe photoshop, windows 7 aero themes, hd movies etc he might need it! Good point

[Jasonandme]

Thanks george.
Can you please provide some suggestions on how I should build this with minimal budget.
As discussed, i really dont need anything fancy, other than RAM and a decent CPU (that supports hyper-threading).
Dont think i will need any video card (since i am not using it for gaming or graphics production).

Thanks

Thanks for confirming, but no.
No adobe photoshop, no video rendering needed etc

Purely for huge data analysis and some automation processing.
Thanks again

[george__]

Thanks for confirming, but no.
No adobe photoshop, no video rendering needed etc

Purely for huge data analysis and some automation processing.
Thanks again

Have fun building it !!!

[xalex0]

If the OP going to use adobe photoshop, windows 7 aero themes, hd movies etc he might need it! Good pointEver heard of GPGPU?

[george__]

Ever heard of GPGPU?

Teach me!

Edit: I googled, it mentioned Nvidia CUDA (I use it when I watch movies sometimes).

http://www.nvidia.com/object/what-is-gpu-computing.html

^^ Like that? So the GPU helps the CPU? Kinda like how PhysX card helps graphics card?

[Mark77]

Teach me!

Edit: I googled, it mentioned Nvidia CUDA (I use it when I watch movies sometimes).

That CUDA and OpenCL stuff is mostly useful if you have a certain data computation problem that can be easily parallelized, and makes use of a lot of repetitive floating point calculations, ala Fast Fourier Transform or similar.

I know it gets a ton of press as being some sort of revolution, and in some areas of applied/computational physics, image processing, or anywhere where you're going to use a lot of, for instance, Fourier analysis, it is incredibly useful. But those applications are rather limited. It gets a lot more press than it deserves, IMHO, because the "GPU" manufacturers have a vested interest in pushing more value for their silicon.

[xalex0]

Teach me!

Edit: I googled, it mentioned Nvidia CUDA (I use it when I watch movies sometimes).

http://www.nvidia.com/object/what-is-gpu-computing.htmlhttp://lmgtfy.com/?q=GPGPU&l=1



But those applications are rather limited.Why are you so sure that the OP's application is not one of them?

[george__]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=GPGPU&l=1


Why are you so sure that the OP's application is not one of them?

Yeah it says, "Dominant proprietary framework is Nvidia's CUDA." on wiki

I'm using Nvidia Cuda for watching HD movies but even with it, my system is using around 3gb of ram :|

[xalex0]

Yeah it says, "Dominant proprietary framework is Nvidia's CUDA." on wiki
Have you reached the list of applications yet?


I'm using Nvidia Cuda for watching HD movies but even with it, my system is using around 3gb of ram :|One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

[george__]

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

I setup potplayer to use gpu acceleration using Nvidia Cuda. (http://imouto.my/configuring-potplayer-for-gpu-accelerated-video-playback-with-dxva-or-cuda-and-also-high-performance-software-decoding/). It just looks a tiny bit better... But I doubt OP going to be watching movies :D

[xalex0]

But I doubt OP going to be watching movies :DI repeat my question.

[george__]

I repeat my question.

Yes. Are you trying to get me to say database operations?

[xalex0]

Yes. Are you trying to get me to say database operations?Pretty much anything not involving video processing (since the OP has already excluded it)

[george__]

Pretty much anything not involving video processing (since the OP has already excluded it)

So the moral = OP should get a external GPU because of the benefits of GPGPU?!

[Jasonandme]

Look guys, I dont mean to cause any confusion here.
However, I have to admit I am not a techy. When you guys mentioned GPU, I was under the impression of a video card (gaming ones).

That is why I stated I am not planning to use it for adobe etc. and what I was really trying to say is that something 'on-board' is fine as well. Nothing fancy.

[george__]

I think what xalex0 is saying that...

Buying a external graphics card will help your computer because it'll improve your computer's performance.

[Mark77]

Look guys, I dont mean to cause any confusion here.
However, I have to admit I am not a techy. When you guys mentioned GPU, I was under the impression of a video card (gaming ones).

That is why I stated I am not planning to use it for adobe etc. and what I was really trying to say is that something 'on-board' is fine as well. Nothing fancy.

Yeah, sounds like you'd be served by the embedded Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge stuff just fine. At this point I'd probably steer you towards a Z77 motherboard, an i5 or i7 CPU (non-K versions), and 2 x 8gb DDR3-1600 RAM modules. If you need more, you can add another pair of modules. If you want the machine to go as a lights-out config (ie: headless), then go for a Q77 motherboard keeping in mind that you lose a few features (such as slots and SATA ports) which may or may not be relevant to your situation.

Fast I/O is something that can make or break the virtualization experience, IMHO. Especially if multiple VMs are pounding on the same physical resources.

[xalex0]

So the moral = OP should get a external GPU because of the benefits of GPGPU?!The moral is that one should explore his options and not discard something just because of not knowing what it is.

[george__]

The moral is that one should explore his options and not discard something just because of not knowing what it is.

So should he get graphic card?

@OP - Getting a SSD might help

[xalex0]

So should he get graphic card?

He should define the problem he is trying to solve and identify what algorithms and resources will be the most appropriate. For example, unless the his application hogs tons of RAM but goes easy on the CPU, the suggested build with 32GB and just 2 cores would make little sense.

[Jasonandme]

So based on the suggestions above; how much am I looking at?

Did some quick research off canadacomputers
I see a few models for i7, a few models for z77, so I am just taking the average as estimate;

intel i7 cpu: +/- $330
Asus Z77: +/- $250
Case: +/- $50

What else?

[xalex0]

So based on the suggestions above; how much am I looking at?

Did some quick research off canadacomputers
I see a few models for i7, a few models for z77, so I am just taking the average as estimate;

intel i7 cpu: +/- $330
Asus Z77: +/- $250
Case: +/- $50

What else?
RAM, storage, PSU

[Jasonandme]

Yeah if you do 4x8gb, you can build a machine for $500 or so. ie:

Intel H67 Mobo -- $60
Low-end Sandy Bridge chip -- $40
4x8gb RAM -- $200
$200 -- PSU, case.

32gb is nothing these days. Even the costs of going to an 8-slot motherboard isn't a lot -- LGA2011 setups are roughly $250 for the board and $300 for the processor.

Personally if you're gonna remote into it, I'd suggest something with an out-of-band management interface, whether it be Intel AMT (Q67/Q77 chipsets), or the IMT that's available on other boards such as from vendors such as SuperMicro. Basically this lets you VNC/Remote Desktop into the machine at basically a hardware level without even having any user software running on the machine.

edit: for VPS use, I'd strongly recommend a CPU that has the proper Intel/AMD virtualization suite (Intel VT / AMD-V) -- the IOMMU isn't strictly necessary though.

I think we are going way over $500, based on my needs above?
(I understand we have refined my requirement now - but what would be my approximate cost etc.)

[george__]

Yeah probably above $500!

Give this thread a read

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/me-intel-i5-3570k-cpu-202-49-pmed-1204086/2/

I think the deal is dead but there is talk about what motherboard to buy that needs 32GB of ram :D

[Jasonandme]

Just did some research and found that there are dozen of different versions of Z77.
Which one would you guys recommend? And why does Z77 seem so popular.

I wonder if this is a good deal from NCIX: intel i7 2600k sandy bridge + Z68 bundle.
Its not Z77 tho :(

http://ncix.com/products/?sku=67449&vpn=2600K%20%26%20P8Z68-V%20Pro%20G3&manufacture=Bundle%20Deals

[george__]

The Z77 is the successor to the Z68. It does what the Z68 and then some :D

Here is a comparison chart (http://www.pugetsystems.com/blog/2012/04/12/z68-z77-and-h77-whats-the-difference/) for you!

[sexyj]

Forget GPUs. Buy couple of SSDs and setup a RAID10 array.

The harddrive will be your biggest bottleneck when it comes down to data processing. GPU not necessarily.

[george__]

Forget GPUs. Buy couple of SSDs and setup a RAID10 array.

The harddrive will be your biggest bottleneck when it comes down to data processing. GPU not necessarily.

I recommend Intel 520 or 320! Built in AES encryption ftw.

[xalex0]

Forget GPUs. Buy couple of SSDs and setup a RAID10 array.

The harddrive will be your biggest bottleneck when it comes down to data processing. GPU not necessarily.Yeah right. Do you even know for what kind of data processing you are optimizing?

[balance]

Invest in a server motherboard dual intel nic, ecc memory

You can use xeon or i3, i5, i7

Vt-d if you want esxi/vm

Gpu are very powerful why do you think folding use them. The can process lots of data simultaneously. I dont know how optimize the

[sexyj]

It doesn't matter what kind of of data it is. As long as it is data that need to be fetched from local storage, it will be the bottleneck.

Unless the OP is doing folding@home that fetches data from the net, then raw computing power (cpu/gpu) will suffix.


Yeah right. Do you even know for what kind of data processing you are optimizing?

[xalex0]

It doesn't matter what kind of of data it is. As long as it is data that need to be fetched from local storage, it will be the bottleneck.

Unless the OP is doing folding@home that fetches data from the net, then raw computing power (cpu/gpu) will suffix.With 32GB of RAM why would you need to store intermediate results on HDD?