Employer Cancelled Vacation Pay

[C_C]

I'm currently on a contract at a company that had been paying me vacation pay....pay day comes around and they have randomly decided that I wasn't 'eligible to receive it since I'm on a short term contract.' Since I'm on contract I don't get any paid time off.

Now let me know if I'm wrong but my understanding after viewing the Ministry of Labour's website is that this is illegal and doesn't make any sense.

'Full-time, part-time, temporary, seasonal, term contract employees and student employees are eligible.' Ministry of Labour (http://www.worksmartontario.gov.on.ca/scripts/default.asp?contentID=1-3-4)

Any thoughts?

[James_TheVirus]

I'm currently on a contract at a company that had been paying me vacation pay....pay day comes around and they have randomly decided that I wasn't 'eligible to receive it since I'm on a short term contract.' Since I'm on contract I don't get any paid time off.

Now let me know if I'm wrong but my understanding after viewing the Ministry of Labour's website is that this is illegal and doesn't make any sense.

'Full-time, part-time, temporary, seasonal, term contract employees and student employees are eligible.' Ministry of Labour (http://www.worksmartontario.gov.on.ca/scripts/default.asp?contentID=1-3-4)

Any thoughts?

You are not eligible as you do not meet any of the employment types above. You are contracting your services...

[C_C]

I'm not an independent contractor, I'm on the companies payroll on a full time contract.

[eiad77]

Then yes, I think you are entitled.

[Kappa21]

I'm not an independent contractor, I'm on the companies payroll on a full time contract.

From what I know and gather, unless you have an offer with a company and the company wrote that you have for example 10 day vacation or you will be getting some sort of percent back then they can go back on it.

I remember when I worked at the government and they didnt give me paid holidays, they added to my pay - so I would make 10% more per hour or something like that which was cool, but id had to do hours in order to get that and some people would have Xmas and all these funky days off and i'd be not making any cash.

But seriously..check it out. You're contract. Remember that. Like it or not..they can fire you tomorrow cause you've agreed to them on contractual. They put you on the payroll as they would put a consultant for all you care. Once someone is full time they cant fire him. Contract these days are meant to test the person and see how well he does.

In any case, look at your offer and see if they wrote it that you get vacation pay. If so...you have a case. If not....sorry amigo!

[ConsoleWatcher]

As mentioned earlier, if you are an employee then you are entitled to vacation pay, regardless of the duration of your contract. However, you should consider whether or not it's worth it to pursue legal action/recourse.

[C_C]

Thanks for the responses, i've read over the ministries website and regardless of my contract status it appears I'm still eligible whether they like it or not. All it says in my contract in regards to vacation is that it will be unpaid, there is no mention of the percentage of vacation pay that will be added or whether it would be at all. They've left it ambiguous, but from talking to people who work in HR this is not right, I'm entitled to it as part of the law.

I won't be pursing any legal action as of yet, I will first talk with my employer (who didn't bother to do the same with me - they just stopped adding the 4% vacation pay to my pay cheque out of the blue) and go from there.

As much as I would like to ignore it, I can't. That's a couple hundred dollars owed to me. Just b/c they think I don't know any better or that I'm worried about my job does not mean I won't discuss it with them.

Employers need to watch it, not all of us are desperate and in debt. If this forces me out of a job - so be it. I haven't done anything wrong and in fact they can't fire me for questioning it (also on the Ministries website).

[Nucks]

Sounds like your employer is treating you as a contractor when really you should be treated as an employee and are entitled to the minimum benefits (their portion of EI, CPP, vacation, etc).

[4flava]

Thanks for the responses, i've read over the ministries website and regardless of my contract status it appears I'm still eligible whether they like it or not. All it says in my contract in regards to vacation is that it will be unpaid, there is no mention of the percentage of vacation pay that will be added or whether it would be at all. They've left it ambiguous, but from talking to people who work in HR this is not right, I'm entitled to it as part of the law.

I won't be pursing any legal action as of yet, I will first talk with my employer (who didn't bother to do the same with me - they just stopped adding the 4% vacation pay to my pay cheque out of the blue) and go from there.

As much as I would like to ignore it, I can't. That's a couple hundred dollars owed to me. Just b/c they think I don't know any better or that I'm worried about my job does not mean I won't discuss it with them.

Employers need to watch it, not all of us are desperate and in debt. If this forces me out of a job - so be it. I haven't done anything wrong and in fact they can't fire me for questioning it (also on the Ministries website).

How shady they are altering your terms of pay without notifying for consent. Pretty damn sneaky and I personally wouldn't want to work for people like that.

[C_C]

Trust me I know and I feel the same but if only it was that simple. I'm been job searching and haven't had any luck so I figured I'd hang on to this job for the pay cheque and experience. This is my second fixed term contract with this company.

@Nucks, You're right, my guess is they're now attempting to call me an independent contractor on a fixed term contract BUT in my contract it states that I'm 'an employee of abc company for the duration of (months and dates)'. They're also taking off deductions for cpp and taxes. If I was a true contractor I'd have to get a GST number and have my own business that I contract my services out of. I'm on contract being paid a base salary.

Can anyone tell me if they've experienced this before and whether what I've written above makes any sense?

The Ministries website has all kinds of info that's a little confusing/conflicting. It states under the heading 'When Should I Be Paid Vacation Pay' that 'When the employee has agreed in writing that his or her vacation pay will be paid on each pay cheque as it accrues (accumulates).' Now i don't have anything like this is writing on my contract, they were just paying it out and decided to stop.

[Firebot]

If you are being deducted cpp and ei you are not incorporated and as such you are owed vacation pay or actual vacation. Yes it illegal and your employer is absolutely foolish to think they can pull this off. The last thing they would ever want is the government on their back.

In you original link, it clearly states that while you may not be eligible for paid vacation time (which you mentioned you are not as you are on short term contract ) you still are entitled to 4 percent vacation pay. Even if all you ever worked for a company was 1 hour you are still supposed to get 4 percent vacation pay on that hour.

[spike1128]

OP, you should just talk to HR about it. I am sure they will give it back to you.

[NutsandBolts]

OP, you should just talk to HR about it. I am sure they will give it back to you.

X2

I bet if you just ask nicely about it, or try to speak to the appropriate person in charge, it should get settled out. Sounds to me like someone trying to cut cost with the hopes you are stupid enough not to check it out.

Good luck with it, keep us informed

Regards

[C_C]

Thanks guys, thats my plan. I have to wait until the senior person in charge is back before discussing it as they would be able to reverse the decision. My company doesn't have an official HR department nor do they have any official policies (hence why this is happening - ignorance and the hope that I'm stupid/desperate enough to buy into their jargon).

I will update the thread with the final verdict. Thanks for the advice.

[Syne]

Need update op

[C_C]

The only update I can provide for the moment is that the Ministry has been called and I'm in the right. I wanted to make sure before I stepped in the meeting, to sound educated on the topic. The advisor did indicate that something needs to be in writing as to whether the 4% would be paid out every pay cheque or in a lump sum at the end of the contract. I am entitled and eligible to receive the vacation pay....still waiting for my manager to come back as they are the ones who can fix this.

Meanwhile I am baffled as to why they would act so unprofessionally. Did they really think I wouldn't notice? or that I'm ignorant? b/c I'm not.

I hope the explanation is rational and the conclusion is the obvious one otherwise further steps will have to be taken.

[Syne]

Thanks. Let us know how the meeting goes.

[C_C]

*UPDATE*

:D

The meeting was hilarious and full of ignorance for employment standards and legality on the employers end. My thinking is that it was done under the guise of cost cutting measures and hopes that we wouldn't contest.

Essentially they tried to play it off that they made an 'error' and that the contracts didn't state clearly that the 4% vacation pay was 'included in the base salary' which is total BS and illegal since it wasn't clearly stated and even if it was its not right. The 4% is owed ON TOP of your gross salary, not 'blended into it.' If this was the case - that means that I would be making even less than what I thought I was making (before taxes) as stated falsely on the contract.

Since my initial post, it turns out that there were other contract employees who had noticed this reduction in their pay so we were in the meeting together which was great and provided solidarity and greater emphasis on the issue. The manager requested that we do 'some homework and provide proof' which we were annoyed at having to do but found a quote in the ESA that allowed no further doubt. We also had power on our side b/c we were clearly annoyed/upset and would have quit leaving them in quite a bind. One colleague was upset enough to threaten to file a claim.

Therefore in conclusion I have received my missing pay and will continue to keep an eye out on my paycheque. I would urge all of you contract or not to do so as well and print a copy of the Employment Standards Act for review.

I am very proud of myself and my peers for standing up for ourselves. It might not be a huge sum of money but when you're not making very much to begin with (after taxes) then every bit counts and it is our legal right. Of course this might seem easy to say in theory (as Im not in debt or in dire need of income) but my point is that you shouldn't be scared, its unethical to hold your employees to incredibly high standards while being hypocrites and cheating them. They chose the wrong group to mess with.

A note to any employers on here: don't treat your employees poorly, it really effects moral and the desire to be productive and produce results. We are not ignorant and won't work for whatever you'll give us. Its a business contract and goes both ways, we expect you to act professionally just as much as you expect that from us. I don't consider that entitlement but FACT.

[Elfer]

I was going to tell you that yes, you are entitled under the ESA, but of course it's already worked out for you. The only exception to this for a "contractor" would be if you weren't being paid directly by the company, for example of you had an independent contracting business, and technically the company paid your business and your business paid you. I've had four jobs on term contracts, and every single one of them has had a specific clause stating that I would be given vacation pay in lieu of vacation, as a premium on top of the stated salary, as outlined in the ESA. Usually the amount was 4%. Unless already stated in your contract, saying that the amount was "blended in" to the base salary is an attempt to reduce the agreed-upon salary after the fact.

[C_C]

^Basically. They were trying to make it sound like we had agreed to a 'blended salary' but it was clearly not stated in the contract in any form. We were all mislead in that sense. The funny part is we were all receiving this 4% up to this point and they just cut it off suddenly which led to my (most likely correct) assumption that they were trying to cut costs, came across the contracts and realized they could interpret the vague terms however they want with no regards to the law. My respect for the company also went down two fold and while the conversation was amusing it was also uncomfortable for everyone.

That's what happens when you get an employee with not legal background to write up contracts that aren't binding in the court of law.

Another hint to employers out there, there's a saying: 'Don't be penny wise, pound foolish'. You might be saving a couple hundred bucks by trying to get past the laws and not hiring an employment lawyer to review your contracts but your programs will fail in the future with this lack of foresight.