The NorthWest passage

[opento]

With global warming, the dreams of a NorthWest Passage will finally be a reality.

This will have huge economic, political and social implications for Canada.

What are your opinions?

Share.

[dragon_drift]

Our sovereignty will be at stake. Back in high school history, the professor mentioned the United States tried to pass through it without permission due to it being international waters. /facepalm

[laihama]

Yay, we can finally circumnavigate the globe! Oh, wait....

[flashy_mcflash]

Our sovereignty will be at steak.

Blue rare, please.

http://www.foodrepublic.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/enlarge/whichsteaks_rare.jpg

[opento]

:rolleyes:

[Shaner]

Give me a couple hours. I'm in the process of writing an essay on this topic. Once I'm done I'll post it here and you can print it off and hand it in for your assignment.

[opento]

Give me a couple hours. I'm in the process of writing an essay on this topic. Once I'm done I'll post it here and you can print it off and hand it in for your assignment.

What? :-0

[dragon_drift]

Blue rare, please.

http://www.foodrepublic.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/enlarge/whichsteaks_rare.jpg

I noticed after typing it ob my phone. Too lazy to go back and change it.

[opento]

Why are people trolling my topic?

:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry: :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cr

[flashy_mcflash]

To spell out Shaner's post for you, we aren't going to help you with your homework, bud.

[willdacanucker]

For some reason I think the USA will force/strongly suggest/Harper will roll over: a "It is in the entire continents best interest for us to "assist" you Canadians in securing this vital link. So how bout it ol buddy ol pal?" agreement. Then the USA will park at least a stripped down, if not full, battle group there until a permanent NORAD style co-op base is built.

[willdacanucker]

Erm, maybe I have been out of the loop for a while, but who has homework in August? School is a month away.

[Shaner]

Erm, maybe I have been out of the loop for a while, but who has homework in August? School is a month away.

People that can't do their homework themselves, failed and had to go to summer school.

Who asks such a question without giving any opinion of their own?

[opento]

This is my last warning.

I will start reporting you.

[Kunman]

This is my last warning.

I will start reporting you.

lets hear your opinions 1st

[flashy_mcflash]

http://www.cinephreakpictures.com/album%20mime/images/mime%20noooooo_jpg.jpg

[opento]

lets hear your opinions 1st

The Northwest Passage is internation, it doesn't belong to Canada.

[Shaner]

The Northwest Passage is internation, it doesn't belong to Canada.

Very well thought out. Clearly you did a lot of research into this topic.

[danfromwaterloo]

With global warming, the dreams of a NorthWest Passage will finally be a reality.

This will have huge economic, political and social implications for Canada.

What are your opinions?

Share.

Current shipping routes to the far east often pass through the Panama Canal, or, ship to Vancouver/California, which then get put on a train and shipped to the East Coast where they get transferred back to ship.

Here's the problem as I see it: in order for the Northwest Passage to make sense to shippers, it needs to save them money, either through levies enforced at the Panama Canal, or fuel savings as a result of a shorter trip. As the largest shipper would be from China, the Panama Canal is far more of a direct passage to Europe and the East Coast. The added fuel costs to go around would likely cost the shippers far more than any potential charge to get through Panama. Look at a map - you can see how, really, this would only benefit shipments from Korea/Russia to the East Coast, Iceland or the UK. That's a relatively small amount of goods, and not a sizable economic goldmine that people expect it to be.

Politically, Northern sovereignty has always been a contentious issue, and the development of a bona fide year-round route would likely cause some headaches with the usual suspects (US, Russia, Norway, Denmark, etc).

Socially, how will this affect the natives of the North that have relied on ice bridges to get from island to island - what will this do to demographics and population?

[opento]

http://www.cinephreakpictures.com/album%20mime/images/mime%20noooooo_jpg.jpg


Very well thought out. Clearly you did a lot of research into this topic.

reported

[danfromwaterloo]

The Northwest Passage is internation, it doesn't belong to Canada.

Only if the arctic is fully melted. If it's only partially melted, they need to access the passage via the waterway north of Banks Island, which is Canadian Territory.

[danfromwaterloo]

reported

For what, being mean or being accurate?

[Shaner]

reported

Okay then, lets hear your thoughts. You started this topic and have shared nothing. If you have any actual thoughts on this subject, lets hear them.

[flashy_mcflash]

reported

Why are you wasting time reporting people when you should be working on your essay? You're giving us pot smokers a bad name.

[opento]

http://www.earthmagazine.org/sites/earthmagazine.org/files/styles/article_size/public/1334599875/Northern_Sea_Route_vs_Southern_Sea_Route.png

Here you see the advantage of the Northern Sea Route, across Russia's northern shore when the ice is clear, as compared to the current Southern Route between Europe and Asia. It allows much shorter passage from Europe to Asia, saving fuel, time and risk. The volume of materiel moving along these routes is unimaginable.

The Northwest Passage, which is more complicated to navigate, does not serve nearly so populous a market, and the distance savings from, say, the NE USA to the West Coast as compared to using the Panama Canal, is not nearly as significant as the Northern Sea Route will be to the folks on the other side of the world.

[danfromwaterloo]

http://www.earthmagazine.org/sites/earthmagazine.org/files/styles/article_size/public/1334599875/Northern_Sea_Route_vs_Southern_Sea_Route.png

Here you see the advantage of the Northern Sea Route, across Russia's northern shore when the ice is clear, as compared to the current Southern Route between Europe and Asia. It allows much shorter passage from Europe to Asia, saving fuel, time and risk. The volume of materiel moving along these routes is unimaginable.

The Northwest Passage, which is more complicated to navigate, does not serve nearly so populous a market, and the distance savings from, say, the NE USA to the West Coast as compared to using the Panama Canal, is not nearly as significant as the Northern Sea Route will be to the folks on the other side of the world.

Irrelevant. Your discussion is about the Northwest Passage, not the Northern Sea Route. The reason behind the large tonnage on this route is because it serves as an export route for China to Europe. The key here is China. If we open up the Northwest Passage year-round, it doesn't offer a substantive savings.

[whampoa]

For some reason I think the USA will force/strongly suggest/Harper will roll over: a "It is in the entire continents best interest for us to "assist" you Canadians in securing this vital link. So how bout it ol buddy ol pal?" agreement. Then the USA will park at least a stripped down, if not full, battle group there until a permanent NORAD style co-op base is built.

I am not normally into conspiracy theory, but I will not pass it through the American. In matter concerning the Western hemisphere.

Heck they made up a country call Panama, in order to built a canal through it. In the name of progress and trade.

[NorthYorker]

NWP can seriously benefit Canada by providing cheaper access to Northern mineral riches. Instead of trucking stuff all the way to Edmonton or Winterpeg (cost of transportation today makes unfeasible any Northern mining but diamond/uranium/etc. operations, with infinitesmall output of very expensive suff), mining companies will be able to load ore and dirt directly on freighters, the way it happens today in Quebec.

[whampoa]

NWP can seriously benefit Canada by providing cheaper access to Northern mineral riches. Instead of trucking stuff all the way to Edmonton or Winterpeg (cost of transportation today makes unfeasible any Northern mining but diamond/uranium/etc. operations, with infinitesmall output of very expensive suff), mining companies will be able to load ore and dirt directly on freighters, the way it happens today in Quebec.

The real wealth in the Arctic (minerals, oil and natural gas) is in Canada, not Russia.

Why do you think the Russian submarine deliberate plan their flag, under the Arctic Ocean, on the Canadian side?

[wilsonlam97]

In b4 dah polical lock.

OP should be banned for political bait lol. Why did the OP report people? The mods aren't stupid, they'll look into it first.

[opento]

In b4 dah polical lock.

OP should be banned for political bait lol. Why did the OP report people? The mods aren't stupid, they'll look into it first.

Please stop trolling

[wilsonlam97]

Please stop trolling

I'm not trolling. You're being a child by trying to keep the conversation to your liking.

The Northwest passage is only a potential for oil. That's it. Get the discussion a bit deeper and this becomes a political thread.

[opento]

I'm not trolling. You're being a child by trying to keep the conversation to your liking.

The Northwest passage is only a potential for oil. That's it. Get the discussion a bit deeper and this becomes a political thread.

Yes you are trolling.

[wilsonlam97]

Yes you are trolling.

I'm glad your not a mod.

[opento]

I'm glad your not a mod.

Please let's back to the original discussion.

Thanks.

[wilsonlam97]

Please let's back to the original discussion.

Thanks.

Political thread?

[NorthYorker]

The real wealth in the Arctic (minerals, oil and natural gas) is in Canada, not Russia.Possibly. The more of it is in Canada, the more open NWP would benefit Canada.

[willdacanucker]

I am not normally into conspiracy theory, but I will not pass it through the American. In matter concerning the Western hemisphere.

Heck they made up a country call Panama, in order to built a canal through it. In the name of progress and trade. I am not into conspiracy either, but the past decade + actions by the USA have been telling. TBH I don't think the whole whacky North American Union that all the nutso's have been preaching about, is that to far fetched now considering what has happened in the past few years, lol. Still doubtful but, meh.

[opento]

This is why it's important we send more resource north, like naval bases, RCMP and patrol missions.

If we don't show presence then those territories may be taken by some other country.

Russia is already sending subs.

We're allies with Denmark, which is good.

[gman]

This is why it's important we send more resource north, like naval bases, RCMP and patrol missions.

If we don't show presence then those territories may be taken by some other country.

Russia is already sending subs.

We're allies with Denmark, which is good.

US, USSR (now Russia) send subs to there for decades.
Denmark also wants to take our land.

[d182]

We're allies with Denmark, which is good.

Are you sure about that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Island

[NorthYorker]

US, USSR (now Russia) send subs to there for decades.Canada can't match Russian military in the region. Never could, likely never will be. We're relying on States to protect us.

Regardless of the whole "ownership" issue, Canada would benefit from the NWP shipping. Navigation fees, ports (Canadian Prairie provinces and American Midwest might see Churchill as a viable alternative to trucking goods to and from SF), this kind of stuff. The more trade is happening close to you, the more opportunities you have to skim some tasty bits off it.

[opento]

Canada can't match Russian military in the region. Never could, likely never will be. We're relying on States to protect us.

Regardless of the whole "ownership" issue, Canada would benefit from the NWP shipping. Navigation fees, ports (Canadian Prairie provinces and American Midwest might see Churchill as a viable alternative to trucking goods to and from SF), this kind of stuff. The more trade is happening close to you, the more opportunities you have to skim some tasty bits off it.

The problem with relying on the US to protect us is their interest in taking over the region.

They'll protect their interests first, even at Canada's expense.

[NorthYorker]

The problem with relying on the US to protect us is their interest in taking over the region.I don't think they want to "take over" the region the way European map had been redrawn after WWII, for example. They want to secure their interests there. But I think there's a mutual unspoken understanding that we will never do anything against American interests, aren't we?
They'll protect their interests first, even at Canada's expense.Yes, but the alternative (developing our own force able to project an adequate power along NWP) is even more expensive.

[gman]

I don't think they want to "take over" the region the way European map had been redrawn after WWII, for example. They want to secure their interests there. But I think there's a mutual unspoken understanding that we will never do anything against American interests, aren't we?Yes, but the alternative (developing our own force able to project an adequate power along NWP) is even more expensive.

Depends. For many American, Canada selling gas/oil to China is against American interests.

[NorthYorker]

For many American, Canada selling gas/oil to China is against American interests.OK, we're talking about situation when money buys goods, not big guns. Market is open and global. We don't sell oil to China, somebody else will sell to them. And, Americans would not buy from this someone because they bought from us (and States need only this much oil, not an endless amount), so amount of oil bought by China would not change. If Americans would ever see this open market as a threat, they will likely force us to shut down any overseas supplies.

[gman]

OK, we're talking about situation when money buys goods, not big guns. Market is open and global. We don't sell oil to China, somebody else will sell to them. And, Americans would not buy from this someone because they bought from us (and States need only this much oil, not an endless amount), so amount of oil bought by China would not change. If Americans would ever see this open market as a threat, they will likely force us to shut down any overseas supplies.

American has big control (or big influence if one prefers) to our oil. e.g. the recent Chinese purchase of Canadian oil company needs approval from both Canada and USA.
US for sure see that as a threat but not a threat that is big enough to do something to piss off Canada at the moment. If Republican is in White House, they probably would do something different.

[opento]

US for sure see that as a threat but not a threat that is big enough to do something to piss off Canada at the moment. If Republican is in White House, they probably would do something different.

What do you think they would do different?

[gman]

What do you think they would do different?

I don't know but Republican policy has been amazed me for a long time. They always invent things that I cannot imagine.