Old house vs New house?

[lazymonkeygod]

What did you buy and why?

I bought a new construction home. I like the neighborhood, the freedom to choose finishes, the fact that new houses are more efficient.

[redzone]

both have +/-

i bought old because its
- cheaper (usualy)
- bigger lot (usualy)
- established neighborhood (full grown trees etc)
- can see the problems (most) at purchase (no settling etc to deal with)

i could see buying new for the
- no big maint for a bit
- warrenty
- get to choose the layout
- knowing no one else has been there before you.

[Gigit]

We are building new; our home will be ready next year. We opted to go new because we like the look and feel of a new home, we like that we can pick everything out ourselves, and we like that the roof, furnace, etc are all new.

[glugglughic]

We have a 1930's home - old by choice with renovations to enhance. I know there are good builders out there, but my view is that many new homes are not built as solid as they used to be. Our focus was more on the infrastructure and strength since anyone can refinish to make something look modern. Our home has an exterior brick wall and an interior brick wall, then framing. Very thick walls and solid 'old school' foundation. Too many new builders do not have the skills and pride - you can see it in the cracks in the foundation after a couple years.

[aqnd]

I bought old because I want to fix it up exactly how I want it - lower purchase price in, and change things as I go.
Plus generally more "solid" construction - I'm sure many have seen the nightmares that can be hidden behind those walls, all to save $20 on the builder's part. This house actually has 4x4, when you'd be expecting 2x4.

Plus, having a lot 6x the size of new construction and established trees doesn't hurt either.

[PhuFighter]

Unless you have gads of money, new home == smaller lot, old home == larger lot.

[Poulet]

Location, location, location.

The closer you get to downtown, the more expensive it is.

Older homes are closer to downtown and priced higher.

The same applies for new homes, except that they are even further than old homes.

[aqnd]

New houses aren't necessarily further.. they just buy one old house, doze it, and build 4 in its place for double the purchase price (each) of the original :p

[licenced]

I bought old because I want to fix it up exactly how I want it - lower purchase price in, and change things as I go.
Plus generally more "solid" construction -

The bolded statement is very true. I've found most houses built in subdivisions under 15 years old are mostly junk, when I show a recent build to buyers, they're shocked at what I expose. There are very few builders of new homes that actually produce quality and its because they don't produce more than a few dozen in a locale. Buyers wanting something of a more recent age never stop to consider the frequency by which these homes change hands versus those that are older. Within the past few days I've come across two posts where the basements are leaking - one before the house was even turned over and the other after 3 months. Imagine their state in 3 years. That speaks volumes.

[BuildingHomes]

I work in about 1000 new construction homes a year. I deal with new home buyers at every income level both pre and post construction.
I see and hear everything related to what goes on.

Drawbacks to new home construction:
Very small lot sizes. Your house size is maximized to fit the minimum lot size.
Same models and colour choices stamped out over and over again every 6 lots.
You will be living in mud for quite a while. If not mud then dirt and dust.
Your garbage will most likely not be picked up until the street is established.
No municipal snow removal, so you have to rely upon the developers contractor to do it.
Your kids will not be able to play anywhere safely (it is a construction site).
Your pets will not be able to go out and run around until you have a fence. This will be at least 2 years.
You will be taking a lot of time off work to deal with the legal documents, financing, PDI, closing day and post-closing service calls.
You have to buy everything, window coverings, appliances, furniture (maybe), and any of the upgrades you wanted to add post-construction.
You hope to hell that what you saw on paper translates into what is built into reality.
There will be no stores around you to conveniently purchase things at.
This is just a small list.


Drawbacks to resale home:
Older appliances and mechanicals may need upgrading.
Roof and windows may need replacements.
Larger lot may mean more landscape maintenance.
I'm sure there is more, but this is just my experience.

I've had both. I'm currently in a 60 year old home that I most likely will tear down and build a new one. I love the location and the neighbourhood, and everything else around just keeps getting upgraded.

[woof]

In my previous home, a new one that I lived in for 20 years, during the first 5 years I hated the fact that:

1. During the summer I frequently woke up to the sound of nail guns and hammering as the houses around me were slowly built. I really, really grew to hate those sounds.

2. It took years to finish off all the lots on my street and because of that the street was always full of mud as trucks drove off an on the construction sites. My cars were always splattered with mud. And when the mud on the streets dried it blew around. The windows were always dirty.

3. I hated the flat tires from the nails and screws that fell on to the road. Every one of my tires had a flat in the first 5 years and then nothing after that.

4. You never know what neighbors you get. Turnover was high initially as some found they hated living in the suburbs on the edge of the city. After a few years things did settle down and I had some great neighbors.

5. With houses still being build the city was in no rush to put in the boulevard trees and grass. For a while there I might as well have been living on the moon.

[dor79]

we bought an older home mainly beause

1.) we trusted the construction more
2.) we like the size of the lot and the houses bones
3.) I wanted to do a full reno anyway. With a newer home build, it would be just as much work if not more

[Alanaaaaa]

We live in a 1930s home. We live in the city. There's no new land in our neighbourhood, so you either get an old house, or an expensive, large, new house on a lot that used to have an older house. Since we didn't have the money to buy anything new in our neighbourhood, our only choice was old.

As for old, there are definitely certain issues that drive me crazy (new roof needed soon, squirrels got into a front part of the attic, needed to install a/c, needed a new kitchen, etc etc), but, in a new home, I feel that it's only a matter of time before there will be similar issues, so I'm not really sure how much of a plus that is for buying new.

ETA -- There are definitely some older home features that I LOVE... we have the home's original hardwood floors, as well as beautiful original trim, nice tall baseboards, original wainscoting in the dining room, original ceilings with great detail (and real crown molding... it's actually molded into the ceiling rather than being wood stuck on and painted). I do love those old features in our home.

[coolspot]

I bought a new construction home. I like the neighborhood, the freedom to choose finishes, the fact that new houses are more efficient.

But you'll need to deal with dust, dirt, construction, new house issues (basement settling, fence, etc.) and unknown neighbours!

I like to buy houses that are 5 - 10 years old; houses with all the problems worked out, but not too old to require major repairs yet.

[yao416]

If you have extra half million to put on renovation. Then go for new house

[ntan]

Judging by the comments in this thread, people generally refer to new houses as in new-development neighborhoods? In Vancouver, a healthy amount of new homes are from tearing down older homes, and replacing it with new ones.

[will888]

Definitely resale. Established neighborhood, larger lots, closer to everything...

[aqnd]

Judging by the comments in this thread, people generally refer to new houses as in new-development neighborhoods? In Vancouver, a healthy amount of new homes are from tearing down older homes, and replacing it with new ones.

The volume/availability of those is severely limited, so when referring to 'new', most of the time people are talking new cookie cutter subdivisions.

And even then, as I said, those style kill half the benefits people like in old properties, as they don't usually take one house and rebuild in place. They sever the lots to 2, 3, 4+ and cram in as many houses as they can fit.
There goes your decent size land point, and you might still have construction noise/mess on the other units when you move in if you're in the first one and they weren't built all at once.

[ntan]

The volume/availability of those is severely limited, so when referring to 'new', most of the time people are talking new cookie cutter subdivisions.

And even then, as I said, those style kill half the benefits people like in old properties, as they don't usually take one house and rebuild in place. They sever the lots to 2, 3, 4+ and cram in as many houses as they can fit.
There goes your decent size land point, and you might still have construction noise/mess on the other units when you move in if you're in the first one and they weren't built all at once.


Thanks for the information. I've only been in Ottawa for 2 months and have considered buying a new home within the next 4 years... but browsing around, I've seen nothing but "cookie cutter subdivisions" in terms of new home offerings, which really differ from what I'm accustomed to in Vancouver.

[Thai]

New homes for better equity, customization and energy efficiency. You can't renovate older homes to have 9' ceilings.

[glugglughic]

New homes for better equity, customization and energy efficiency. You can't renovate older homes to have 9' ceilings.

On some you can (when adding a second storey) but I don't believe new houses by default are more efficient at all. My 1930's house with double layer brick walls is fully insulated and with energy efficient windows and doors. The only difference I know mine will be here for another 100 years while new subdivision homes are built (i realize there are exceptions) like crap.

[dor79]

I would never buy a *new* home in a subdivision, if I had more money, I would knock a house down and build a single *new* one

[nalababe]

We much prefer to have a older home in an established neighbourhood.
We also prefer rads to forced air
We don't find that energy usage is particularly high...addtothat, with huge well established trees we didn't hacpvetoeven use airconditioning due to cooling effect of the shade.

[Katchemash]

A new home. Who knows who lived there previously? Would you use someone else's used condom for example? Old houses are just that. Someones discarded, used house.

[AudiDude]

Old.

Big lots, built better. Nobody that gets a new home gets what they wanted and almost 100% of new home owners are unsatisfied. Kitchens today are a joke. Tiling is crooked, walls are crooked, your new paved driveway will be cracked in 3 years. You can't fit a car in the garage. You can't leave a car in front of the house because the bumper overhangs the sidewalk. Your neighbour is in your lap because the lot is dinky. You'd better pray you don't develop foundation issues.

You buy a new home and think it's cleaner because nobody has lived there? Workers have peed and defecated in your vents and walls. They have left garbage in every nook and cranny. Two inches under your new sod is broken bits if brick and wiring and all the garbage you thought they cleaned up before they laid the sod (they PURPOSELY wait until you are gone before they do that one). Your new furnace is a hunk of garbage and a toy and if you got A/C that is a joke as well. The electrical wiring looks as if it was done by a two year old and the fixtures they give you are from the 1960's. Tiles in your kitchen will crack over time because the floor flexes too much because they house just isn't built as good.

If I buy a old house, I can still gut it before I move in. There are all the telltale signs if there was an issue. I WANT the furnace to be a goner so that I can tell the seller I have to replace the furnace, take the money off the price and then buy a top of the line furnace/AC. I'd like to find as many problems as possible (that are fixable), get a discount on the used house and fix the issues.

I'm very glad other people aren't handy at all or think renos are a bid deal.. You will spend extra money buying new everything and I will buy the used stuff, save money and have a better product. That doesn't just go for homes, but other things as well.

Even if you watch Homes on Homes, half the stuff he takes apart is less than 3 years old, builder grade stuff. Tarion is the relatives of the home builders, good luck.

[B0000rt]

Old.

Big lots, built better.

No kidding, I love my 80' wide lot. Driveway enters on the side of my house, I never see my neighbours! :)

[jenlad]

A new home. Who knows who lived there previously? Would you use someone else's used condom for example? Old houses are just that. Someones discarded, used house.

Do you bring your own cutlery, glasses and plates to a restaurant?

[Thai]

Old.

Big lots, built better. Nobody that gets a new home gets what they wanted and almost 100% of new home owners are unsatisfied. Kitchens today are a joke. Tiling is crooked, walls are crooked, your new paved driveway will be cracked in 3 years. You can't fit a car in the garage. You can't leave a car in front of the house because the bumper overhangs the sidewalk. Your neighbour is in your lap because the lot is dinky. You'd better pray you don't develop foundation issues.

You buy a new home and think it's cleaner because nobody has lived there? Workers have peed and defecated in your vents and walls. They have left garbage in every nook and cranny. Two inches under your new sod is broken bits if brick and wiring and all the garbage you thought they cleaned up before they laid the sod (they PURPOSELY wait until you are gone before they do that one). Your new furnace is a hunk of garbage and a toy and if you got A/C that is a joke as well. The electrical wiring looks as if it was done by a two year old and the fixtures they give you are from the 1960's. Tiles in your kitchen will crack over time because the floor flexes too much because they house just isn't built as good.

If I buy a old house, I can still gut it before I move in. There are all the telltale signs if there was an issue. I WANT the furnace to be a goner so that I can tell the seller I have to replace the furnace, take the money off the price and then buy a top of the line furnace/AC. I'd like to find as many problems as possible (that are fixable), get a discount on the used house and fix the issues.

I'm very glad other people aren't handy at all or think renos are a bid deal.. You will spend extra money buying new everything and I will buy the used stuff, save money and have a better product. That doesn't just go for homes, but other things as well.

Even if you watch Homes on Homes, half the stuff he takes apart is less than 3 years old, builder grade stuff. Tarion is the relatives of the home builders, good luck.

Old = asbestos for starters. Also, old homes have NO garages, NO air conditioning (unless you count the ones you stick in your windows), etc. The only thing old homes have going for them may be structural integrity and lot size. But don't forget, with lot size comes the tax. All the plumbing and electrical wires will be dated and will be on the brink of failure, if not now but in the very near future. New homes have new codes to abide by, you talk as if new homes today are being built en masse from China at discounted prices.

[Techhead]

I'm another for OLD HOME... The new with the garade extended past the front entrance have a nick name.....I'm sure most have heard.

I grew up in a 3 stroy Victorian (approx 1880's) that back onto Dufferin Grove Park. Sure it was inadequately insullated for winters but it had charactor, street had 100+yr old trees.
Move to a 1920's appartment on College st. couldn't beat the size of the rooms for the money.

Then bought my first home near Brock/College and it too was built 1920's. Solid as a rock.
I now own in an established area of Etobicoke with homes built in the early 50's. tree lined street.
Talk about solit construction, from one corner of the house to the other only has settled 1/2", can you say that for most new?

My bro-in-law bought a home costing twice mine in NewMarket and part of his home had settled more than two inches in just 5 yrs, causing all kinds of issues.

The only issue in my area now is, the new buyers are knocking the roof off the bungalows and building monster homes. This area will start looking like the Glencarin/dufferin/bathurts area.

[AudiDude]

Old = asbestos for starters. Also, old homes have NO garages, NO air conditioning (unless you count the ones you stick in your windows), etc. The only thing old homes have going for them may be structural integrity and lot size. But don't forget, with lot size comes the tax. All the plumbing and electrical wires will be dated and will be on the brink of failure, if not now but in the very near future. New homes have new codes to abide by, you talk as if new homes today are being built en masse from China at discounted prices.

I don't know where the homes you speak of are anything made in the last 60 years easily has a garage. Asbestos? None in any homes I know of that are up to 60 years old.

Wires don't fail for no reason. They would have to be installed incorrectly which can and does happen in a new build. How would a wire "fail". As I mentioned, the garage is so small on new homes if you can get your car in it, you can't open the door to get out. Your kids can't play in the postage stamp sized yard, so they use the street which is annoying and dangerous. Tax amounts are specific to areas, but if the property is useless and for another $900 per year it can be useful, does that really matter?

You need to see how the homes are constructed to see what really goes on. I saw a guy do footings with the help of his 2 and 5 year old kids. Don't tell me they are qualified. I have been running wiring over ducting that you could move up to a foot either way with your hands. That will flex so much at the joints, so you know air is leaking out. Also once the person finishes the basement and the 50 cent furnace kick on with a bang ( variable speed furnaces that ramp up smoothly, are not available ) what kind of noise do you think that will make?

I've seen zig-zag plumbing drains before they hid it with the drywall. I witnessed the perpetually drunk guys that frequented the same pool hall as me install windows incorrectly. They used rotten wood found on the construction site and they cut it with chainsaws leaving gashes in the subflooring.

Hot water plumbed into toilets. Houses five feet shorter than they were supposed to be. Paved driveways that when I stepped on them sank 5 inches and them slowly rose back up ( paved over sponge I guess). Wavy walls. Bacon wave baseboards and door casings. Cheap carpet that feels like concrete.

Bottom line is, they are like you said. Thrown together like a product en masse from China , but with no discount. You dont get to pick the brick colour and I hate red.If you buy after it is built, you can see what you are getting before you pay. Old homes have garages and they have AC. BTW AC is not guaranteed to come with a new house, several friends and customers have had to add it afterwards. Also a paved driveway isn't guaranteed either.

If I buy a new home, you will see the kitchen for sale on Kijiji and me sistering the floor joists and boxing them so the floor doesn't flex when I put real tiles in.

New homes from smaller builders trying to get a good reputation or custom builds can give you a better home.

[Thai]

I don't know where the homes you speak of are anything made in the last 60 years easily has a garage. Asbestos? None in any homes I know of that are up to 60 years old.

Wires don't fail for no reason. They would have to be installed incorrectly which can and does happen in a new build. How would a wire "fail". As I mentioned, the garage is so small on new homes if you can get your car in it, you can't open the door to get out. Your kids can't play in the postage stamp sized yard, so they use the street which is annoying and dangerous. Tax amounts are specific to areas, but if the property is useless and for another $900 per year it can be useful, does that really matter?

You need to see how the homes are constructed to see what really goes on. I saw a guy do footings with the help of his 2 and 5 year old kids. Don't tell me they are qualified. I have been running wiring over ducting that you could move up to a foot either way with your hands. That will flex so much at the joints, so you know air is leaking out. Also once the person finishes the basement and the 50 cent furnace kick on with a bang ( variable speed furnaces that ramp up smoothly, are not available ) what kind of noise do you think that will make?

I've seen zig-zag plumbing drains before they hid it with the drywall. I witnessed the perpetually drunk guys that frequented the same pool hall as me install windows incorrectly. They used rotten wood found on the construction site and they cut it with chainsaws leaving gashes in the subflooring.

Hot water plumbed into toilets. Houses five feet shorter than they were supposed to be. Paved driveways that when I stepped on them sank 5 inches and them slowly rose back up ( paved over sponge I guess). Wavy walls. Bacon wave baseboards and door casings. Cheap carpet that feels like concrete.

Bottom line is, they are like you said. Thrown together like a product en masse from China , but with no discount. You dont get to pick the brick colour and I hate red.If you buy after it is built, you can see what you are getting before you pay. Old homes have garages and they have AC. BTW AC is not guaranteed to come with a new house, several friends and customers have had to add it afterwards. Also a paved driveway isn't guaranteed either.

If I buy a new home, you will see the kitchen for sale on Kijiji and me sistering the floor joists and boxing them so the floor doesn't flex when I put real tiles in.

New homes from smaller builders trying to get a good reputation or custom builds can give you a better home.

Name these builders you speak of. There are good and bad who you describe is a candidate for Holmes on Homes. Our new builder we're going with are quite reputable and we have many options to choose from - including brick colours, sidings and even the colours of the shingles. Also they won't allow 2 homes side by side to be identical on the same street.

[THINKPADT61]

I am building and here is the pros and cons I see for my new home:

Pros:
Customization - I added fireplace, hardwood flooring, 10foot ceiling upper, 8'6" ceiling lower, relocate my utility room to maximize living space, relocate breaker box, etc...
Energy efficient - triple low-e windows, tankless water heater, energy star, etc
Tons of government rebate for new homes (province dependent)
Better building standard - pilings, PVC water line (I hate copper), no asbestos!
First year workmanship warranty

Cons:
Lawns, deck, water softener, etc are all extra cost!
Smaller lots
Workmanship can be a issue, actually most of the time!

[Thai]

I am building and here is the pros and cons I see for my new home:

Pros:
Customization - I added fireplace, hardwood flooring, 10foot ceiling upper, 8'6" ceiling lower, relocate my utility room to maximize living space, relocate breaker box, etc...
Energy efficient - triple low-e windows, tankless water heater, energy star, etc
Tons of government rebate for new homes (province dependent)
Better building standard - pilings, PVC water line (I hate copper), no asbestos!
First year workmanship warranty

Cons:
Lawns, deck, water softener, etc are all extra cost!
Smaller lots
Workmanship can be a issue, actually most of the time!

For Ontario, what can we apply for? Other than the HST rebate.

[AudiDude]

Name these builders you speak of.

-Asp n R dge
-Gr n p rk
-T wnw d
-M tt my
-S ndial
-R seh ven
-R mingt n
-C untryw de
-B ywo d

[Reignman]

Two years ago we moved into a century farmhouse. Sure its old and going in we knew exactly what upgrades we wanted to do and it took some "sweat equity" to make it happen...but I wouldn't have it any other way.

These older homes have something that the cookie-cutter new homes of today don't have and that is charm. Its the quirks and imperfections that give older homes character along with the fact that they're solid as a rock!

[starrysim]

There is no right answer, it totally depends on what the buyer wants, and even then it comes down to the individual house, for many of the reasons mentioned above. I won't re-iterate those reasons. What I do want to bring up is that there are so many smug "century home in the heart of the city" types in this thread. Sure, if I could have a fully renovated and customized older home in Rosedale or Leaside, I would take it. But for those of us on a budget, we just can't get a decent older house in the city. Older homes at the lower end of the price scale are in shoddy condition, require a lot of upkeep, have dark and inconvenient layouts (there is something to be said for open concept and lots of windows), no garages, no central air, etc etc. It's not really a fair comparison, because a livable older home in the city comes at a much steeper price point than a livable new home in the 'burbs.

[gheart008]

we bought an older home mainly beause

1.) we trusted the construction more
2.) we like the size of the lot and the houses bones
3.) I wanted to do a full reno anyway. With a newer home build, it would be just as much work if not more

This.

[Kuurgen]

Tiles in your kitchen will crack over time because the floor flexes too much because they house just isn't built as good.

We just moved out of a new subdivision home, and the floors in the bathroom and kitchen would make the odd cracking sound as the tiles flexed. I am absolutely positive that it's just tile over regular old plywood that has been screwed down. I would also wager that builders are NOT using concrete backer board in the showers. (Just a hunch) I'd also wager that they're not using corrosion resistant screws in the shower area and just using regular old drywall screws which will corrode.

Having moved into an older house and prepped the floors with mortar and concrete backer board etc, I can attest to how much more solid the floor is. I'm guessing if you live in a newer subdivision home, you can get and idea of what your sub floor underneath the tiles is by lifting an air vent in the tiled area.


You buy a new home and think it's cleaner because nobody has lived there? Workers have peed and defecated in your vents and walls. They have left garbage in every nook and cranny. Two inches under your new sod is broken bits if brick and wiring and all the garbage you thought they cleaned up before they laid the sod (they PURPOSELY wait until you are gone before they do that one).

I can confirm the garbage under the sod thing, and a friend of mine has assured me a lot of their garbage goes between the drywall.
Almost makes you want to go buy one of those snake camera scopes to see what's going on inside your walls.

[AudiDude]

Having moved into an older house and prepped the floors with mortar and concrete backer board etc, I can attest to how much more solid the floor is. I'm guessing if you live in a newer subdivision home, you can get and idea of what your sub floor underneath the tiles is by lifting an air vent in the tiled area.

I can confirm the garbage under the sod thing, and a friend of mine has assured me a lot of their garbage goes between the drywall.
Almost makes you want to go buy one of those snake camera scopes to see what's going on inside your walls.

Yeah, my whole point is old homes aren't that bad, you see what you get and you know it. Also you can't make a builder build better than they want to. If I am tearing it down, I get to put what I want, where I want and how I want. To a lot of people this is a daunting task and they might not have the skills or know the right people to get it done. I recommend a new house for them, but don't assume an old one is useless. Tell the Queen to move out of Buckingham Palace.

When I did my kitchen, the floor is 2X6 supported ( I think now 2x6 boards are smaller) with 2x1/4 diagonal slats with a 1/2 inch subfloor. Add about 500+ screws and eliminate squeaks. Nail the crap out of the mesh and put on the mortar scratch coat. Line up the tiles (went with ceramic) so that they lead from the front door through the kitchen to the side door and set that row and work out from there.

The floor is uber solid. Normally withe the old floor (vinyl) if you dropped a bowl it was OK. The first thing to hit the floor was a glass/crystal creamer. It was there one second, and then it was in a trillion fragments. The floor feels like you're walking in a condo, no give, and no squeaks.

New kitchens have the tile attached to plywood with mastic. The floor itself flexes and usually you lose grouting and then crack a tile or two. So you should tear the floor up, and do a better subfloor and go in your unfinished basement and sister another piece of wood to the floor joists and then box it in sections. Especially if you are going to add big heavy tables/counters and appliances.

You heard the saying "Buy land, God isn't making anymore"

[Poulet]

^ yes.

You can't change the location, but you can always change the house.

[MrFrugal1]

A new home. Who knows who lived there previously? Would you use someone else's used condom for example? Old houses are just that. Someones discarded, used house.

That's one of the silliest posts I've read in some time. Guess you never stay in hotels for the same reason?

[redblue]

I've lived in both old and new.

The last house was about 100 years old and needed plenty of work. It was a bit of a headache actually. Sigother get's relocated every few years so this time we went with a newer build (6 yrs old) just to save any headaches this time around.

We both hate the new place. Subdivision, blech. Home has no character, blech x2. Checked out the attic one day and couldn't believe the flimsy wood used for the roof trusses. Sure it fits within current codes but just reeks of cheap, IMO. Another example... I enjoy gardening. Started digging in the spring and could not believe the quality of the soil in the new build. Clay, mixed with rocks and construction debris everywhere. I found some surprises in the old house while digging (half a wall worth of bricks that someone had hid there). But at least the brick matched the original house brick and made for a great garden border.

We're currently looking around for an older home with some trees and a decent lot size. The only thing I appreciate about the new house is that at most, it'll require a fresh coat of paint before selling.

Plastic houses for plastic people IMO. Something I didn't understand until living in a new house.

[Forhad]

The advantage of buying a new home is that assuming the place was built properly in the first place. You won’t need to worry about spending much on maintenance and upkeep in the first few years you own it.

[synaptech]

old. character and bones that you can't buy today. no comparison.

[jenlad]

old. character and bones that you can't buy today. no comparison.





You can't change the location, but you can always change the house.

Agree with both. Have had one new (4 years) and two old (30-40 years) and there's no comparison to the older homes in terms of quality and the location. Interiors can always be updated.

[Reignman]

There is no right answer, it totally depends on what the buyer wants, and even then it comes down to the individual house, for many of the reasons mentioned above. I won't re-iterate those reasons. What I do want to bring up is that there are so many smug "century home in the heart of the city" types in this thread. Sure, if I could have a fully renovated and customized older home in Rosedale or Leaside, I would take it. But for those of us on a budget, we just can't get a decent older house in the city. Older homes at the lower end of the price scale are in shoddy condition, require a lot of upkeep, have dark and inconvenient layouts (there is something to be said for open concept and lots of windows), no garages, no central air, etc etc. It's not really a fair comparison, because a livable older home in the city comes at a much steeper price point than a livable new home in the 'burbs.

Not all "century homes" are in the city, my friend. Ours is in rural Ontario situated on 73 acres. It was needing lots of work but as others have eluded to, these older homes have amazing bones. We did the majority of the work ourselves (which saved a ton of dough) and there is still lots to do but we're here for the long run.

I agree that "to each his own" when it comes to new or old..but in my experience, older takes the cake.

[Biff88]

Many valid points have been made on the virtues of both old and new homes and I won't repeat any. I will however add some to the virtues of older homes.

Energy Efficiency Rebates:

These are available to owners of older homes too..to replace furnaces, air conditioners, insulation, windows etc.

Commuting:

By choosing a new home, location will force you to spend much more on fuel, vehicle repairs, commuting time and the cost of vehicles themselves.
For example, folks living in 416 area of Toronto can potentially keep their car for 10-15 years..One commuting from 905 to work in the city will put on much more mileage and may need a new vehicle in 7 years or less.

Corner Stores:

Older neighbourhoods have corner stores/small plazas within walking distance where one can buy newspapers, milk, bread, lottery tickets etc... New neighbourhoods typically don't have these and one must get in the car and drive to a mall to buy anything.

[kevv]

Old = asbestos for starters. Also, old homes have NO garages, NO air conditioning (unless you count the ones you stick in your windows), etc. The only thing old homes have going for them may be structural integrity and lot size. But don't forget, with lot size comes the tax. All the plumbing and electrical wires will be dated and will be on the brink of failure, if not now but in the very near future. New homes have new codes to abide by, you talk as if new homes today are being built en masse from China at discounted prices.


new homes dont have ac either untill you pay to install it...not all old homes have asbestos if they do its usually the kitchen floor big deals tile over...most plumbing and wiring done in older houses might be out dated but istalled rite not like the junk they throw in today
i like have 10 feet of space between my neighbours and no one looking in the bedrooms at the back of the house because i have a 70 foot backyard and trees covering my neighbour house,taxes are lower because house is not worth as much...new homes built minimum standard 2x4 framing warping and cracking while being installed not to mention their really 1.5x3.5 inches finished.timber 1/2 inch drywall put your hand thru if you lean on it hard, cheap cuboards, cheap carpet stucco ceilings .... plastic siding covering particle board.. but hey if you like the colour of the walls in the new house i'm sure its worth it ...to you

[moofur]

Does anyone even care to think about whether older homes are even built better? I'm not saying one way or another but it seems like all the people who live in "older homes" love to scoff at others who live "newer" homes because their homes are built "better" and with "more character".

Has the first point been actually proven? Food for thought.

http://www.canada.com/older+homes+better/6855010/story.html
http://www.builtonline.com/articles.cfm?P_ID=587
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4411267-Are-old-houses-built-better-than-newer-houses

And as for the second point, you're comparing apples to oranges when you're comparing a 50+ year home built in a different era to something that is newly built. It's like saying that the new cup that you bought from Ikea has less "character" than that antique cup that you saw over at the museum. It's not even a valid comparison.

I live in a newly built home, and I'm not trying to argue one way or another, but it gets kinda old when you get all the older home owners saying that their homes have more "character" or is "better built" without even thinking what they're even talking about. I've been to older homes for open houses where the stairs were creaking, the layout is awkward, or the finishes were all outdated due to the age of the home and the owners would say that I should appreciate it because it adds "character". Give me a break. I do agree that there are certain aspects of older homes that give them their uniqueness depending on the home, but the term "character" is so cliche and overused it's starting to be used as an excuse to cover off any shortcomings.

What is not debatable however is that in a lot of cases, you get much bigger lots in older homes, giving you more privacy and space. However, that's not necessarily true in all cases. Look at all old homes in downtown Toronto. Some of them are on dinky lots as well.

[redblue]

Newer homes are much more energy efficient. Our house is twice the size of the old one and heating and cooling costs are about half.

[TTlisa]

We choose an old house after a deep thinking. It's cheap and big enough for my 5 family members. My children are happy to have their own room. And my neighborhoods are kindly and helpful. We are happy now in this old house.

[dibksbgon]

Up to the individual. Here in O-town, the brand spanking new houses are even further out in the burbs than where I am (not by much just an extra 5 or 10 minutes at least in the east end - but in the West end you travel out to Kanata or down to Barrhaven and the commute is crap).

I live in an "older" (more just like resale home). Built in 1993. Not exactly really old.
Prefer the maturer neighbourhood. Love the location (right near major bus route and all the big box amenities).
Personally, I prefer how some of the older houses are laid out. My house has the perfect combination of definition between spaces and openness in my mind. There is very little space that is wasted. I remember going into some of the new models of houses when we were looking for fun, and some of the space went to waste (things like a loft space... which yes you have the option of enclosing into a bedroom).

[AudiDude]

To understand better, some of you may want to define what you think is old. A house built in the 50's to 60's, to me is old. They might be "cookie cutter" and that doesn't bother me. They do have larger floor joists and are sturdier, but they still have concrete basements that are less prone to water leaking in. They can get a medium gutting with insulation added, a new furnace, new kitchen, new flooring and be in the same league in terms of efficiency of a new home with a more solid foundation.

Older homes such as the ones picture behind Mr "I've now decided to gut the place" take a lot more patience and money. My friend, who has deep pockets, re-did his home located at Pottery Road and Danforth area. The basement ceiling height was increased and he did an extension on the back (three floors). I'm not a fan of homes that old but forced air was added and the whole place was insulated with proper insulation and spray foam. New electrical and plumbing was added. I would challenge anybody that doesn't like older homes to not like this one because it is every bit as efficient as a new home and it doesn't give you a creepy old home feeling. This wasn't cheap but due to the solid construction ( I was running wires and can tell you the floor joists were so close together and so hard to drill through, I didn't have a good time) the house was a good candidate for a reno. The door alone on the huge Sub Zero fridge weighs more than my entire fridge when it is full, but we didn't have to reinforce the floor.

If I were to get a new home, I would be spending a lot of time replacing the things that were there to barely pass code, run new wiring, fix all the sloppy ducting work (make sure the ducting is sealed and firm. Fix the plumbing (some of it is in the stupid place affecting basement finishing). Ditch the kitchen soon (I can't believe how cheap the kitchen cabinets are and haw crappy they are installed.)

My goal in buying an new home would be as follows:

-Bigger lot with big distance from neighbours, public walkways and sidewalks. Privacy is impossible to buy later

-Garage that isn't "in" the house as this kills the size of your garage and livingroom.

-Garage you can actually park in to protect your second largest investment.

-Lot that sits higher than everybody elses so that water doesn't come visit me every spring or during a big rain

-Trade every option for structural upgrades that can only be done during the build

-Preferably a double front door, or at least a door where I can get furniture in an out of. You'd be surprised how many people overlook this and can't get furniture in their house.

-No stupid layouts. A friend has an extra fat hallway, that runs from the front door to the kitchen, you can fit a couch in. Too small to be a dining room or a living room, what is it? Unused space... Kitchen has cupboards that are on 45 degree angles that you can't really put stuff in.

-What direction does it face? How much sun and light will it get during the day? eg if your driveway is on the north side of your house, you will shovel snow twice as much than if it was on the south side being exposed to the sun all day. You will also have to move the snow to a sun lit area to get it to melt. Like to entertain for dinner? Where does the sun come in at that time? A friend's home had us cooking at dinner time as that side of the house was fried by the sun, same with my sister. One of them had the thermostat on that wall, so the air conditioning freezes your ears off while the sun blinds you because the thermostat stays hot.

If I think of more, I will update.

[firechkn]

I prefer a new house, maybe we got lucky but if you do your homework and shop around for a new build you can customize most options or whatever your budget allows. Pick a good builder, do your walkthrough and since you have warranty they will fix it. It might take awhile but it will get done. I believe you have up to 10 year warranty for major structural problems including leaks.

Our starter home was 50 years old house, nice cozy house with big lot. Nothing wrong with the house, sure a lot of things were dated, wasn't open concept, no insulation, underwhelming wiring, kind of damp and you have to constantly keep up with maintenance.

Aside from a new furnace and A/C we didn't have a tonne of money to bring it up to current standards and for the area just not worth it so the next best thing for a growing family was to move into a brand new house that offered twice the interior space with a modern layout and zero maintenance. To bring the old house into the 21st century would of costed us 100k easy.

Moving 20 min away costed us nothing since we actually made money and in return got a beautiful modern house with lots of upgrades on a decent size lot. Could not be happier.

[onlineharvest]

I don't think one can generalize either way.

Are older homes better built? Not necessarily. It takes as much homework to be sure your resale home is up to snuff. Depending on the age, even a well built home would require components to be replaced. There are good builders and bad builders of new homes too. To brush all new builders with the same brush is simply not fair to reality.

People who keep on saying 'old' continue to say all you need to do is renovate, rip down walls, add insul, etc - some people are not willing to do this or prefer not to. They want move in ready. You can certainly get this with a renovated resale home, but apples to apples comparison, I've found these properties to be more expensive.

Yes, new has obvious drawbacks that cannot be changed. Trees are not mature. No landscape (which some may see as a benefit - clean slate to do as you wish). The warranty on new homes at least guarantees you are covered for the majors, and assuming the build is quality, will mean little to no hassle for many years to come. Whereas, older builds may need a new roof, new windows, new insul, new furnace, etc sooner than a brand new build would. Again, apples to apples comparison.

I know that many of the areas with established trees and homes with 'character' are more expensive than equal land/home size comparisons. A friend in Etobicoke bought a 1000 sq foot home with a nice property for the same price of a 2000 sq foot home in Vaughan with less mature trees and a smaller plot (but the home was more functional, lower utility bills, modern ammenities, etc) - it all depends on where people are considering, location location location, etc

As a starter home, I'd personally prefer a new build. In an IDEAL WORLD, ability to buy a lower pre-construction price, build equity, sell and move to more ideal situation if you don't want to GROW OLD with the house. Again, this is ideal, but who knows what future holds.

BUT...BUT...in an ideal world, the best bet would be to tear down a crap home in a great established area and rebuild NEW as you wish! lol
But how many people are able, willing, etc to do that.

New vs Old...IT DEPENDS!

[synaptech]

Does anyone even care to think about whether older homes are even built better? I'm not saying one way or another but it seems like all the people who live in "older homes" love to scoff at others who live "newer" homes because their homes are built "better" and with "more character".

Has the first point been actually proven? Food for thought.

http://www.canada.com/older+homes+better/6855010/story.html
http://www.builtonline.com/articles.cfm?P_ID=587
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4411267-Are-old-houses-built-better-than-newer-houses

And as for the second point, you're comparing apples to oranges when you're comparing a 50+ year home built in a different era to something that is newly built. It's like saying that the new cup that you bought from Ikea has less "character" than that antique cup that you saw over at the museum. It's not even a valid comparison.

I live in a newly built home, and I'm not trying to argue one way or another, but it gets kinda old when you get all the older home owners saying that their homes have more "character" or is "better built" without even thinking what they're even talking about. I've been to older homes for open houses where the stairs were creaking, the layout is awkward, or the finishes were all outdated due to the age of the home and the owners would say that I should appreciate it because it adds "character". Give me a break. I do agree that there are certain aspects of older homes that give them their uniqueness depending on the home, but the term "character" is so cliche and overused it's starting to be used as an excuse to cover off any shortcomings.

What is not debatable however is that in a lot of cases, you get much bigger lots in older homes, giving you more privacy and space. However, that's not necessarily true in all cases. Look at all old homes in downtown Toronto. Some of them are on dinky lots as well.

No question that older homes have some shortcomings. Buying a new home that is "move-in" ready will generally offer several years of little maintenance, whereas buying older will probably mean you're looking at near-term upgrades. We chose older because it would need updated and for location, size, and lot. When looking at older homes we tried to avoid the "newly renovated" types because it was someone else's style - often done to cover up a deficiency (perceived or not). As an owner of an older home I find great frustration in the "new" home owners constantly mentioning how much work an old home is - while many of them are already replacing their windows, finding rotted sills, and haphazard insulation.

Does that new cup from ikea have any less character than the "museum" piece - it depends on if the ikea cup is attempting to mass-replicate craftsmanship from the original. Yes a hand painted pottery cup from 100 years does have more character. If it didn't then why would anyone try to replicate it? Why do so many new homes get stamped with the label "McMansion" - perhaps because the extend of their character is found at Home Depot.

[lazymonkeygod]

Whether you choose a new home or and old home it is completely dependant on your taste and situation. This thread was not intended to argue which one is better because there really isn't just one answer. The point is simply to see what's your choice and why. The reason could be as simple as "we just like this house and it happens to be an old house".

[onlineharvest]

I think the discussion needs to operate on assumptions.

QUALITY new home vs QUALITY old home (and define what is meant by 'old')
People have disasters with 'old' homes just as they do with 'new' homes.

There are pros and cons to each, and the constant between the 2 is that there are poorly built older homes, as well as poorly built new homes, just as there are quality new builds vs quality older builds.

[BuildingHomes]

Older homes at the lower end of the price scale are in shoddy condition, require a lot of upkeep

Ah.. but here we go.. Many people buy their new home thinking they are somewhat maintenance free. This is not the case. You still have to do lots with the house in order to maintain it. This includes cutting the grass, sanding/painting any exterior wood, cleaning the windows, cleaning out the eves troughs and downspouts, servicing the furnace/ac, re[airing cracks in drywall and concrete, and lots lots more.

I see many people who have bought their new home and are not aware of how to look after it. This is one of my big worries about new areas and how they will look after a few years.

[redblue]

^ screw heads popping. They stare at me everyday. Most are easy fixes compared to cracked and loose plaster.

[BuildingHomes]

new homes dont have ac either untill you pay to install it...not all old homes have asbestos if they do its usually the kitchen floor big deals tile over...most plumbing and wiring done in older houses might be out dated but istalled rite not like the junk they throw in today
i like have 10 feet of space between my neighbours and no one looking in the bedrooms at the back of the house because i have a 70 foot backyard and trees covering my neighbour house,taxes are lower because house is not worth as much...new homes built minimum standard 2x4 framing warping and cracking while being installed not to mention their really 1.5x3.5 inches finished.timber 1/2 inch drywall put your hand thru if you lean on it hard, cheap cuboards, cheap carpet stucco ceilings .... plastic siding covering particle board.. but hey if you like the colour of the walls in the new house i'm sure its worth it ...to you

Just to correct a few of these statements..

Yes you can put your hand through half-inch drywall, if you are punching it. And you will damage your hand. I know this, we cut into drywall almost every day.

Dimensional lumber now is .5" short on the dimensions because it is planed smooth so it is all consistent. It's been like that for 30+ years. The chips from the planing process can be used to make OSB (see below)

If the lumber is bowed, it is usually kerfed in order to correct the bow. This is for non-load bearing walls. Load bearing walls will generally have anything like this replaced.

Particle board is not the same as Oriented Strand Board, or OSB. Particle board I would associate more like MDF, or Medium Density Fibre board, the same sort of stuff that is used in less expensive cabinets. But this is not used for exterior sheathing. OSB is.

[EugW]

For our basement reno of our renovated 50s home, when we were rerouting some sewer pipes, we found a bunch of old whisky bottles in the ground below the slab near the old sewer pipes. Hmmm...

[t3359]

my personal thoughts:

buy old:
- older house, you always wish you had the newest things in it
+ what you see is what you get
+ you get it in a few months
+ potentially better lot and construction

buy new:
+ you get to pick every option
- you have to go through everything and decide what you want (imagine spending hours picking colours)
+ you pay today's prices for something in the future

bjl

[EugW]

my personal thoughts:

buy old:
- older house, you always wish you had the newest things in it
+ what you see is what you get
+ you get it in a few months
+ potentially better lot and construction
I don't think the "what you see is what you get" statement is true at all. It's quite common for an older home to be renovated, but sometimes you have no idea what's behind the new drywall or whatever. This is true of both old and new homes, but at least if the new home was built recently with a permit under code by a respectable builder, you usually can know what's behind the walls.

Plus, you can get a "new" home that's already built. You don't have to buy brand new. You can buy one that's less than 10 years old.

Also, I see a lot of people saying that older homes have better construction. I really don't understand why people say this. For example, sure, the older home may beautiful oak floors and accents, but is that good enough to offset the damp basement, leaky windows, and knob-and-tube wiring?

For me, if I were to buy an old home I'd either tear it down and rebuild, or else if it's a really nice home with character, I'd ideally do some serious renovations... unless it's already been done.

[lazymonkeygod]

So lets say that older homes are better constructed and will last 100 years. Newer homes are not constructed as well and will only last 80 years. If you bought an older home that's already 40 years old then that would mean you'll only have another 60 years with this home, whereas if you bought a newer home you'll have 80 years left. Wouldn't it make more sense to go for a newer home? Just a thought...

[EugW]

So lets say that older homes are better constructed and will last 100 years. Newer homes are not constructed as well and will only last 80 years. If you bought an older home that's already 40 years old then that would mean you'll only have another 60 years with this home, whereas if you bought a newer home you'll have 80 years left. Wouldn't it make more sense to go for a newer home? Just a thought...
Those numbers are pretty arbitrary.

BTW, my 60 year old home had a few mice. When I ripped apart the basement I noticed several significantly sized holes to the outside. I was told this was extremely common for that era. That also partially explains why the basement was so damn cold in the winter. The other reason is that the basement insulation was almost non-existent.

Meanwhile, my friend in a nice heritage home of similar size to mine, pays a few times as much as I do for heating bills, and my house isn't even very energy efficient. I'd guess if that compared to a 2012 energy efficient home, his heating bill would be roughly 4-5X as much.

[Mars2012]

We built new. I guess if you like the look of the older "character" homes, you would be more likely to tolerate its squeaky floors and energy inefficiencies. There are definitely pros and cons to each. I would be worried about what potential problems an older home may be hiding, for example, with the wiring and foundation. It can easily become a money pit.

One thing we upgraded was the furnace. I'm sure it has paid for itself many times over...energy costs seem to be going up every year.

[t3359]

I don't think the "what you see is what you get" statement is true at all. It's quite common for an older home to be renovated, but sometimes you have no idea what's behind the new drywall or whatever. This is true of both old and new homes, but at least if the new home was built recently with a permit under code by a respectable builder, you usually can know what's behind the walls.

Plus, you can get a "new" home that's already built. You don't have to buy brand new. You can buy one that's less than 10 years old.

Also, I see a lot of people saying that older homes have better construction. I really don't understand why people say this. For example, sure, the older home may beautiful oak floors and accents, but is that good enough to offset the damp basement, leaky windows, and knob-and-tube wiring?

For me, if I were to buy an old home I'd either tear it down and rebuild, or else if it's a really nice home with character, I'd ideally do some serious renovations... unless it's already been done.

By "what you see is what you get", I only meant what's visible... i.e., if it had yellow walls, you'd get it with yellow walls - there's no requirement to choose. Anyway, just a clarification.

Regarding "potentially better construction", at least floors were built with plywood as opposed to the OSB they use now. Solid floor joists versus that OSB-looking engineered stuff. Wood floors from mature trees. Cast concrete basements versus cinder blocks. etc etc.

Yeah, I wish I had better venting in my HVAC system and those neat vacuum cleaner slots along the floor boards better insulation and ethernet all over the place, but I'd go nuts if I had to upgrade everything so that it's built the way I want it. I'm currently in a 45 year old home and aside from the asbestos tiles that I had to cover up and a few branches of aluminum wiring that I replaced, I'd probably go for another 40~50 year old home when we move.

bjl

[15-20_God]

Definitely a new house because there's a cachet with telling friends that "we're building a new house" even though you're just buying off standard blueprints vs. I bought a used home.

[EugW]

there's a cachet with telling friends that "we're building a new house"

I hope you're kidding.

[lazymonkeygod]

I hope you're kidding.

He's right...I do enjoy telling people "we're building a new house". I think more so than "we're buying an old house..."

[licenced]

The first home I ever bought was at the bluffs, I mean the bluffs, not the vacinity of the bluffs. It was already 60 years and in need of some modernizing. That TLC included replacing lathe and plaster walls with drywall, a new roof, soffit, fascia, windows, baths, kitchen, updating wiring and the finishes for the fully open basement that spanned the entire footprint. The iron furnace was converted to gas and I distinctly recall the gas inspector's words who recommended the conversion as opposed to a replacement which was also echoed by others - there is no furnace built since that are as good as the iron furnaces.

The price of course reflected this.

Every one of those changes with the exception of the lathe and plaster are routine for homes. What was evident and irreplaceable in that home that is not found in newer constrcution is this:

The lot size was 50 by 125 feet. Beautifully treed and private.

The house's foundation was 4 feet of solid rock.

Its outer walls was solid brick not brick facing.

Its floor beams were 4 inches wide and as with its joists, 12 inches off centre, not 16, 18 or more and not composed of glued chips masquerading as sturdy wooden beams.

The floors were oak, the trim around doors and windows were oak, the baseboards 8 inches of oak, the doors solid oak.

The windows were the original double hung type yet for the age they were effortless to open. Show me a 5 year old home and I will show you at least one window that will not open without effort.

Even its lathe and plaster walls and ceilings were more square and plumbed than what they're banging together today. Plastering was a craftsmanship that was revered. Drywalling is knowing how to use an exacta knife and an electric screwdriver.

It was radiant heat- unsightly rads but still the most efficient form of heat available. By the time this was done, we were as energy efficient as could be.

Creaks will develop in the floors and stairs of all homes. In more modern homes count on that happening within 5 years and the younger it is of late the sooner creaks and sagging will develop. This one, just as those of its age, barely registered a sound.

We sold that home for a bucket load of money 5 years later then bought a 5 year old home twice the size on a lot half the size in the burbs for 1.5 times that selling price. Today that old house even if nothing was done to it would be worth twice the current value of the suburban home we bought. It will still be standing long after all of these built around us within the last 30 years start to crumble.

And by the way, we've had 3 mice find their way into the house,only 1 in the other and unless one has an infestation that is not uncommon especially if there is a direct entry from the garage. This current home wasn't open concept either but it now reflects that style.

Toronto is laden with such sound homes more so than in the suburbs where these are found within their heritage areas. That Toronto's core housing has not been demolished is a testament to the quality of the builds.

Many people want new, maintenance free they believe and so would rather buy the largest asset they will ever own from a rendering only to ditch it after 3-5 years when the cracks, leaks, sagging walls and faults from its cheap mechanicals start to appear and they become frustrated with dealing with Tarion and the builder.

As someone else said at least with an older home you see what you're getting.


Those numbers are pretty arbitrary.

BTW, my 60 year old home had a few mice....

[fotoapparat]

He's right...I do enjoy telling people "we're building a new house". I think more so than "we're buying an old house..."

Until you tell your friends where you bought it. Saying "I am building a new house in the suburbs" vs. "I bought a house near the river/lake/interesting part of town", I know which my friends would think was more appealing.

[jenlad]

He's right...I do enjoy telling people "we're building a new house". I think more so than "we're buying an old house..."

Building a new, custom home completely from
scratch with your own architect etc. is impressive. I don't really consider buying a "cookie-cutter" plan where all you get to pick is the icing as "custom." From scratch, your home may never have been built. Off a plan, if it wasn't you buying the house, the house would still be built by the contractor, so its really not all that special.

I would prefer telling friends that I am buying an older home in an established area with a good reputation over a new home in just another random subdivision....

[EugW]

The first home I ever bought was at the bluffs, I mean the bluffs, not the vacinity of the bluffs.
My home is on the bluffs. I'd say the addition built around 2000 is built way better than the original ever was.

If I were to buy a completely original home on the bluffs, I would tear it down, and start completely new.

And like I mentioned earlier, we found empty whisky bottles by the sewer pipes when we dug down to reroute the sewer lines for my basement reno. Not too encouraging for build quality when they're drinking on the job.

[t3359]

I don't think the comparisons people are making are fair or even make sense. The comparison shouldn't be whether there were whiskey bottles by the sewer lines, tearing down an old home to build a new one with a custom design, or whatever.

The comparison should depend on the buyer. Since everyone's saying location-location-location, if the buyer wants to live in the city of X, near the Y and Z facilities, then the comparison should be, what type of home can the buyer build in the area of XYZ for the same price as an existing home? If the area is already "full", then that will include a tear-down.

Yeah, I would like a brand-new home in my area, but I'm not going to spend the crazy money to buy an existing home to tear it down, design a new one, then have it built the way I want... all of this WHILE I am living in my current home. If the tear-down-to-build takes a year, I need to pay an extra mortgage, let alone the cost of tear-down/design/build.

So in the end, if the above extra costs, if I can get a fantastic new home in the area that I want for the same cost as an existing home, then yeah, you've convinced me that a new home is better.

bjl