Anyone here have experience being convicted of a crime while under 18 years old?

[nauru]

I'm just wondering what people's experiences were as a "young offender". Once you turn 18 is the slate wiped clean? If you commit a major crime, such as a well-organized armed robbery of a bank (taking money) or government office (taking valuable documents or other materials), kidnapping and/or aggravated assault when you are 17 years and 10 months old, and then you are convicted, presumably you would be sent to a correctional facility for youth. But two months later once you turn 18, what happens? Wouldn't you age out of the youth corrections system? And wouldn't you not be eligible for adult prison due to having committed the crime when you were a minor?

Another thing that I was wondering is how your criminal record reflects these types of events. Since a minor's name cannot be published when they are convicted of any crime, even murder, nobody outside your friends and family would know of your criminal history, right?

Just to be clear I'm not a minor, I'm just trying to understand how this aspect of the youth justice system works. Based on my current understanding (which I am 95% sure is wrong or incomplete) a minor can, a week before his 18th birthday, commit a major crime in Canada, be convicted of it, and have few if any lasting consequences; essentially a free pass. So basically if someone has been sexually abusing you, or if someone seriously wronged you in some way and you see no viable option for justice/revenge through the standard channels, you could wait until you graduate from high school, kidnap the person and take them someplace secluded, then beat the person who wronged you within an inch of their life and perhaps cause permanent brain injury or paralysis, turn yourself in, plead guilty to expedite the legal proceedings, and then almost immediately age out of the youth correctional system.

Murder would probably be a bad idea because then the crown could credibly argue that you are a threat to the community, even if you killed your victim for carefully considered reasons that were unique to your victim, and use this as justification for a sentence that includes removing you from society for an extended period of time. (You would also run the risk of being tried as an adult if you committed a painstakingly planned and carefully considered murder, though I'm not sure what the rules are for trying kids as adults). Presumably you would have some sort of parole officer who would keep an eye on you for a few years while you are in university, to try to reduce the probability of recidivism.

But overall, as I understand it, you could basically have a very low-cost chance at revenge against the priest, father, uncle, teacher, or other figure of authority who molested or raped you when you were too young to understand what was happening and/or too afraid to tell the police (and now it's several years later and it's your word against the priest or other authority figure; nobody believes you in part because your life has fallen apart--maybe drug addiction, maybe criminal activity, maybe mental health problems--as a direct result of the abuse/rape). The record of the crime would be sealed, and neither your photo nor your name would appear in any newspaper or in any publicly (or privately) accessible document. After 18 you could basically start fresh, continue to university, and hopefully put the abuse behind you.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm particularly interested in comments from individuals who have been convicted of crimes committed before their 18th birthday, criminal lawyers who have experience working with youth, social workers, and others who have first hand experience with the issue I'm asking about here.

[yao416]

My gosh. Can i get a tldr version

[trixstar]

a friend of mine stabbed a couple of folks from millikin mills hs. he was 17 at the time and the cops waited until he was 18 and then charged him on his birthday.. you can also be charged as an adult in some cases if you are under 18.

[vaportech]

In canada they have until 2 years to charge you. And 10 months to give you a court date. You can bet that they will push those timelines until your 18. Btw safest bet is to do it when 15 and two months at most. Otherwise gg. However you will spend two yrs and 10 months in a correctional facility anyways.

Also depending what crime you have comitted the judge may proceed with the trial as an adult.

[spike1128]

a friend of mine stabbed a couple of folks from millikin mills hs. he was 17 at the time and the cops waited until he was 18 and then charged him on his birthday.. you can also be charged as an adult in some cases if you are under 18.

That is completely correct. I remember some high profile cases that the kid under 18 knows they can get away with what they were going to do but got charged as an adult. Like a 15 years old raping a 13 years old on purpose, knowing he will never be charged as an adult (having evidence that he planned it like that). Then of course, the police saw it as something serious thus charging him as an adult.

[nauru]

My gosh. Can i get a tldr version

tl;dr version -- if you commit a serious crime (but not murder or rape) shortly before turning 18 can you basically continue your life with a clean record once you turn 18 with very little punishment? Since you would be too old to serve time in the youth correctional system, and not old enough when committing the crime to qualify for adult prison.

[george__]

...... I doubt ANYONE on RFD would admit to this...
But there are two types of sentencing. A community based or custody sentencing. Former is lesser than the later. I think if you're likely to get charged with custody sentence the police will will try and charge you as an adult.
Either way, risk of showing up on your criminal record check. So bad for volunteering, work, etc... And then after a couple years the record gets deleted forever if you stay out of trouble (for the community based sentencing no clue about custody sentencing).
http://www.children.gov.on.ca/htdocs/English/topics/youthandthelaw/sentence/index.aspx

@OP - It's not a free pass...
They might end up going to jail, doing probation, community service hours etc. Read the link I posted. I think the major difference is that they are given a second chance, if not tried as a adult.

IMO though, how does grouping kids who are known to do criminal behaviors in the same building help them?? It sounds more like a networking / meeting people opportunity..

[Said212]

Learned something new today! Interesting read.

[nauru]

In canada they have until 2 years to charge you. And 10 months to give you a court date. You can bet that they will push those timelines until your 18. Btw safest bet is to do it when 15 and two months at most. Otherwise gg. However you will spend two yrs and 10 months in a correctional facility anyways.

This is an interesting comment. What if, having committed a serious crime (but not murder, rape, or terrorism-related offence) the offender immediately turns himself in, writes a witnessed confession and presents it to a lawyer, judge, and police department six months before 18th birthday. Can they still not press charges even while having a guilty plea in hand, just to try to run the clock so that the person qualifies for far harsher sentencing? This seems like something a decent defence lawyer could successfully argue is an unjustifiable delay or deliberate manipulation of the justice system; and use this argument to prevent the kid from being tried as an adult for a crime committed while a child. Also I thought that whether the person is tried as a child or adult is primarily determined by whether the alleged crime took place before or after the 18th birthday.

[george__]

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/youth-justice-canada-history-debates/

[Canada_7]

a friend of mine stabbed a couple of folks from millikin mills hs. he was 17 at the time and the cops waited until he was 18 and then charged him on his birthday.. you can also be charged as an adult in some cases if you are under 18.
I went to Milliken and during my time there a few people I knew were stabbed. Wouldn't be surprised if this is the same incident we're talking about...

[HTTP04]

tl;dr version -- if you commit a serious crime (but not murder or rape) shortly before turning 18 can you basically continue your life with a clean record once you turn 18 with very little punishment? Since you would be too old to serve time in the youth correctional system, and not old enough when committing the crime to qualify for adult prison.

Probably not for really serious crimes (murder/rape/etc) but I know a person from highschool who (+ his friends) got caught for robbery but he's clean now.

Idk the exact details of why he's clean

[vaportech]

This is an interesting comment. What if, having committed a serious crime (but not murder, rape, or terrorism-related offence) the offender immediately turns himself in, writes a witnessed confession and presents it to a lawyer, judge, and police department six months before 18th birthday. Can they still not press charges even while having a guilty plea in hand, just to try to run the clock so that the person qualifies for far harsher sentencing? This seems like something a decent defence lawyer could successfully argue is an unjustifiable delay or deliberate manipulation of the justice system; and use this argument to prevent the kid from being tried as an adult for a crime committed while a child. Also I thought that whether the person is tried as a child or adult is primarily determined by whether the alleged crime took place before or after the 18th birthday.

Just because it's a slam dunk case doesn't mean the prosecutor will press charges right away. however given the fact that the person was willing to own up to the charges they may receive some leniency but still sentencing will still be sufficient for the crime committed.

Serious crimes will receive a serious sentencing.

[Setz]

My gosh. Can i get a tldr version

+1

[wilsonlam97]

No ethics? Wtf

[coriolis]

a friend of mine stabbed a couple of folks from millikin mills hs. he was 17 at the time and the cops waited until he was 18 and then charged him on his birthday.. you can also be charged as an adult in some cases if you are under 18.


I went to Milliken and during my time there a few people I knew were stabbed. Wouldn't be surprised if this is the same incident we're talking about...


I graduated from MMHS too, every year there was 1-3 people who sadly wouldn't make it to the next grade, be it a homocide, suicide or cancer. Earlier this year someone I graduated with was the one who fell off the Scarborough Bluffs :(

[Canuck32]

a friend of mine stabbed a couple of folks from millikin mills hs. he was 17 at the time and the cops waited until he was 18 and then charged him on his birthday.. you can also be charged as an adult in some cases if you are under 18.


In canada they have until 2 years to charge you. And 10 months to give you a court date. You can bet that they will push those timelines until your 18. Btw safest bet is to do it when 15 and two months at most. Otherwise gg. However you will spend two yrs and 10 months in a correctional facility anyways.

Also depending what crime you have comitted the judge may proceed with the trial as an adult.

The YCJA applies based on the date of the alleged offence not the date of arrest.

[Shaner]

The YCJA applies based on the date of the alleged offence not the date of arrest.

Thank god somebody stepped in and corrected this nonsense. The police and crown don't wait until you're 18 to press charges because it changes nothing, like Canuck said. If you commit a crime 1 day before your 18th birthday, you will be treated like a minor (there are exceptions). Even if you are sentenced to 6 months in jail, you will go to a youth detention center, not an adult facility. Yes, there are people in youth detention centers that are 19 or 20 years old, it happens.

When you turn 18, your record is not erased. Your record is never erased, but is sealed after a certain number of years once your sentence is complete (3 years for summary, 5 years for summary). Nobody is supposed to be able to access your record once it is sealed. Some people will insist the police can see it, some people will insist they can't. What you believe will depend on how much faith you have in the system to police itself.

[GangStarr]

With regards to the publication ban of a young offenders name, the state may choose to waive a youths right not to be published if it impacts community safety. There have been a few examples of this.

You may be interested in reading the star's "Kids of 311 Jarvis" investigative series which highlights youth getting off all sorts of crime, only to end up right back in 311 Jarvis facing more charges.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1078328--the-kids-of-311-jarvis-kid-glove-treatment-for-young-offenders

Here is an example of a 17 year old getting a life sentance as an adult for stabbing a marijuana dealer. Although they didn't publish his name until he was convicted.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/722391--young-offender-gets-adult-life-sentence-for-brutal-murder

However yes people under 15 essentially get a free pass, and I wouldn't be suprised if criminals took advantage of under 15 year olds to transport guns / drugs.

[IamToronto]

a friend of mine stabbed a couple of folks from millikin mills hs. he was 17 at the time and the cops waited until he was 18 and then charged him on his birthday.. you can also be charged as an adult in some cases if you are under 18.

illegal. this is in the criminal code and the charter. if he was 17 during the time of the incident, they have ot charge him as 17. they can punish him as an adult but they cant wait til he turns 18 to charge him. lol

if someone commits a crime at 14, can they wait til he turns 18 to charge him?

there are time limitations as well


anyway, im not sure if this helps the OP, i didnt even read the OP

the wall of text was too intimidating

[Shaner]

For summary offences the police must lay charges within 6 months of the commission of the offence. For indictable offences, there is no time limit. If you commit sexual assault now and it doesn't get reported until 15 years from now, you can still be charged. There's no statute of limitations for indictable offences.

[peanutz]

I'm not noob enough to get caught

[mzamy]

the ycja goes based on your age on the date of the offence, not on when they charge you. things can still show up past your 18th birthday, though. my boyfriend had an incident at his dad's bar with his dad's girlfriend recently and in the summary of charges in his disclosure, charges on the list are showing from when he was a young offender (17). he's 23 now. so there goes that.

There are a lot of youth in youth facilities over 18, and a lot of youth want to continue to stay there because it is easy there, and they live like royalty there compared to how they would be in an adult facility.

I know someone who was charged as an adult for aggravated assault. he was 16, i believe when he was charged. He got released when he was just shy of 19.

[iownyou]

I'm not noob enough to get caught

That's what every noob says....:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

[Toukolou]

Thank god somebody stepped in and corrected this nonsense. The police and crown don't wait until you're 18 to press charges because it changes nothing, like Canuck said. If you commit a crime 1 day before your 18th birthday, you will be treated like a minor (there are exceptions). Even if you are sentenced to 6 months in jail, you will go to a youth detention center, not an adult facility. Yes, there are people in youth detention centers that are 19 or 20 years old, it happens.

When you turn 18, your record is not erased. Your record is never erased, but is sealed after a certain number of years once your sentence is complete (3 years for summary, 5 years for summary). Nobody is supposed to be able to access your record once it is sealed. Some people will insist the police can see it, some people will insist they can't. What you believe will depend on how much faith you have in the system to police itself.

+1

I was wondering if something had changed while I was sleeping, those earlier posts were ridiculous.

[scarface]

For summary offences the police must lay charges within 6 months of the commission of the offence. For indictable offences, there is no time limit. If you commit sexual assault now and it doesn't get reported until 15 years from now, you can still be charged. There's no statute of limitations for indictable offences.

+1 for being the only person actually posting things that are factual, true, and not based off what someones friends brothers cousin did.

One question though - how does this effect charging crimes that are Hybrid in nature? I know the difference is procedural (and effects sentance), but theoretically if the police wanted to charge you for something Hybrid after 6 months, would it need to proceed as an indictable offense?

[Canuck32]

One question though - how does this effect charging crimes that are Hybrid in nature? I know the difference is procedural (and effects sentance), but theoretically if the police wanted to charge you for something Hybrid after 6 months, would it need to proceed as an indictable offense?

Yes unless the accused agrees to waive the limitation period.