Any CA's here? [Archive] - RedFlagDeals.com Forums

koshimaro

Dec 14th, 2004, 09:30 AM

..or anyone in the accounting field, that can give me some insight into the field, and any other info that might pertain to me wanting or not wanting to pursue such a field?
I was looking at the requirements but I cannot find what you need from university to apply to take the courses etc, is there a certain GPA out of university you need?
Their website says you need to take the credits and recieve no lower than a B- and pass the UFE.

kon_kat

Dec 14th, 2004, 11:10 AM

I had looked into this and from my understanding there's no requirements out of university. The grade of B- is in EACH of the 17 courses for the CA, not an average and not for any other courses.

Basically the process is
- Have the required 17 courses which could have been taken as part of your undergraduate degree.
- Find work with an approved CA firm
- Apply to the CA organization
- complete 30 months of workexperince and at the sametime CA modules [nightcourses of some sort]
- lastly write the UFE and you're a CA

Reasons I've heard for going into accounting is that if you're good with numbers accounting is something you might want to look into. The pay for a CA is pretty good. Start is $65K in the GTA and upwards of $80K for an auditor. CA's go on to become CFOs and CEOs. I have a B.Sc in computer science and am currently working on 2 of the 17 required coureses. I was unable to get back into IT after losing my job over a year ago. I decided to become a CA because I'm good with numbers and it made more sense than getting a masters/PhD in computer science or getting an MBA

frankies

Dec 14th, 2004, 11:28 AM

AFAIK, all of the three accounting designations (CGA, CMA & CA) require you at least a bachelor ddegree

koshimaro

Dec 14th, 2004, 12:01 PM

breakout

Dec 14th, 2004, 12:25 PM

Ok, so now to further worsen my situation, I will have none of the requirements from my undergraduate degree as it is a B. Sc in Health Studies/Psych. Do I have to take other course to qualifiy to even take the CA courses?
This also seemed like a better choice than getting an MBA to me, not to mention on the CA site they say the median income is 68K and average is 131K :!:
Also do you know approx how long it would take one to get the full designation?

btw..thanks for replying :D

Depends on the path you take. Waterloo accounting program is the fastest because right after you finish you can write the UFE right away. If you go the "normal" route, you usually finish your 4 years, usually in a business or commerce program. Once your graduate you usually start working for a recongized company starting usually in September or May. And during your first year working with that compnay, you'll usually write your core examination and then go to the school of accounting which is held in York for Ontario I believe. If you past those first two parts you then go on to write the UFE which takes place once a year in May I believe.
Finishing the 3 exams usually takes 2 years after you graduate, that is if you don't fail any one of the three and if your able to find a job with a recongized company

jazzyc4t

Dec 14th, 2004, 12:43 PM

Ok, so now to further worsen my situation, I will have none of the requirements from my undergraduate degree as it is a B. Sc in Health Studies/Psych. Do I have to take other course to qualifiy to even take the CA courses?
This also seemed like a better choice than getting an MBA to me, not to mention on the CA site they say the median income is 68K and average is 131K :!:
Also do you know approx how long it would take one to get the full designation?

btw..thanks for replying :D

Some schools offer graduate accounting programs which are targeted to uni grads who want to become CAs who dont have any previous accounting knowledge or coursework. There is the Master of Management and Professional Accounting program at UofT which basically is a two year program designed to give you all the necessary 51 credit hours necessary to be a CA. Many other schools have similar programs, off the top of my head, McGill and WLU have similar programs (Although they are diplomas and not graduate degrees).

Final Lazy

Dec 14th, 2004, 12:52 PM

Click on the school that you goto

CA: 70% each course min.
http://www.icao.on.ca//index.cfm/ci_id/139.htm

CMA: 60% each course min.
http://www.cma-canada.org/ontario/20_univ_stud_20.asp

why do every person out there wants to become an accountant? I bet you its because people think its a social status to be in a professional field. If it were not for the name, 1/2 the people wouldn't be jumping into CA/CMA

I suggest that you really explore into the field before you invest into your studies. I was talking to a friend who is all hyped up about going to become a CFA (Chartered Financial Analyst)... I go, "so you're interested in things like asset valuation and capital market management?" He goes, "Huh?".

thelefteyeguy

Dec 14th, 2004, 01:45 PM

confused

Dec 14th, 2004, 02:31 PM

accounting isn't for everyone. there is a high drop out rate after 1-2 yrs into it. if you don't get your CA/CMA/CGA, you will be going nowhere and remain underpaid/overworked.

that said, it's a great professional designation which will lead to many opportunities, but it is not for everyone.

..

i'm getting my CGA and CFA instead :)

trusoulja2g

Dec 14th, 2004, 02:35 PM

I'm doing the CA required courses now as part of my commerce undergrad.

Getting the 17 courses done is the first step. To me, it seems quite difficult to do for someone who has already graduated with taking them or is in a different faculty. 1) these courses build upon each other and are scheduled to be taken over 3-4 years, so it would be hard to rush it and get them done in 1-2 years, both in terms of scheduling and actually learning the material. 2) at my school, these courses aren't even offered to people not in commerce. The thing is, you may have to spend 3-4 years in an undergrad commerce program just to get the courses done.

AFAIK, The Waterloo program is still a 4 year undergrad program, not something you can jump into after graduating. It's also very difficult to get in. And there is some confusion over this, but I'm pretty sure the Waterloo program still requires the 2 years of work experience before you can write the UFE.

Regarding the mark requirements:
For students registered after October 31, 2000:
An average grade of B- (70%) or greater in the courses comprising the 51-credit hour requirement must be obtained, with a passing grade in each course.

Seems to me that you just need a B- average, not at least a B- in every single course.

Overall, it takes 5-7 years to get the CA, from taking the courses to getting the 2 year work experience in a firm to passing the UFE.

IMO, the course requirements almost mean having to "start over" for someone who hasn't taken them in their undergrad years. An MBA program is certainly much faster. If you look at the recent Canadian Business Magazine MBA school rankings (http://www.canadianbusiness.com/mba2004/index.jsp), salaries for MBA grads are also quite high and are are about 100% higher than the students' entering salary.

----

Edit: you can actually take the CA required courses as part of an MBA program, so that after 2 years you get both an MBA and the CA required courses. Some MBA programs offer the full 51 credits (ie McMaster), others only some.

crimsona

Dec 14th, 2004, 02:41 PM

Where does it say 60% for CMA? I am really really ticked off by the CMA website because of minimum requirements not being listed

EDIT: I see it now... but why doesn't BC have the same requirements listed? That really bugs me.

Click on the school that you goto

CA: 70% each course min.
http://www.icao.on.ca//index.cfm/ci_id/139.htm

CMA: 60% each course min.
http://www.cma-canada.org/ontario/20_univ_stud_20.asp

why do every person out there wants to become an accountant? I bet you its because people think its a social status to be in a professional field. If it were not for the name, 1/2 the people wouldn't be jumping into CA/CMA

I suggest that you really explore into the field before you invest into your studies. I was talking to a friend who is all hyped up about going to become a CFA (Chartered Financial Analyst)... I go, "so you're interested in things like asset valuation and capital market management?" He goes, "Huh?".

watewate

Dec 14th, 2004, 02:47 PM

I'll second that you need not have B- in every course. You only need B- average over the required courses. In a way, this is easier than CMA's requirement of C- in every course.

As for starting from scratch, it takes a lot of time and dedication. Most of my friends couldn't do all 17 courses within the regular 4 year program, and ended up taking summer school or 5th year to get the requirements over with.

I'd first ask what YOU want to do in accounting with a designation. If you want to work in the private sector right away, you may want to look at CMA instead. Being a mature student, it may be difficult to go to school for 2 years for credits, then going into auditing for another 2-3 years.

Btw, you should have no problems finding jobs for the foreseeable future. Firms are really short-staffed, especially due to Sarbanes Oxley-effects, and they do not see this rush as a one-time phenomenon.

Wildfire

Dec 14th, 2004, 02:58 PM

Can someone outline the positives and differences between the three designations? Which one allows for more growth and how long they take? CMA/CGA/CA?

Thanks!

B40

Dec 14th, 2004, 03:11 PM

Can someone outline the positives and differences between the three designations? Which one allows for more growth and how long they take? CMA/CGA/CA?

Thanks!

They are very different...take an intro financial accounting course and an intro management accounting course and you will see the differences.

One of the main differences is with a CA you're working with a firm auditing companies, while as a CMA you're working at a company looking over budgets, costs etc. CMA allows more room for creativity and thinking, while CA is more clear cut, play it by the book. As for pay, I'm not sure, but I would assume CA's do get paid more.

watewate

Dec 14th, 2004, 03:14 PM

CMA:
-heavy emphasis on manegerial accounting (as name states)
-ultimate career goal is probably closer to COO rather than CFO
-faster accreditation process than CA
-definitely more interesting stuff than CAs (academically and initial working experience)
-some CAs look down upon CMAs (and CGAs) because they feel that they're the standard, but just learn to ignore that
-increasing value in the designation as evidenced by joint MBA/CMA at Queen's, Ivey
-if I want to work in the private sector, and are more interested in running the company as opposed to being more financially oriented, this is the route I'd take

CA:
-most well recognized designation
-easier to get a job (big-4 and numerous mid-tiers)
-great opportunities post-UFE (within the firm by switching to specialty groups or in the private sector)
-getting a CPA (its American counterpart) is a joke after getting a CA
-if you find a job at one of the big-4, the working environment is VERY collegial - may be a draw for some people
-decent pay
-hours aren't that great during the busy season
-CKE/SOA/UFE process is really draining - make sure you're ready for another year of studying

CGA: (I don't know about this designation as well as the other two)
-more techincally oriented
-many more mature students in the program
-a lot of people end up working for the government later

Just so you know, CMAs and CAs were discussing the possibility of a merger this year but it's been on hold. A vote was supposed to take place before the end of the calendar year, but they've hit a lot of snags in trying to get all the provincial bodies and members buy into the idea. The official position by CA/CMA is that they will re-vote next year, but I wouldn't count on it.

Wildfire

Dec 14th, 2004, 03:43 PM

Hey thanks alot watewate & B40 for that great info! That really cleared things up, wasn't sure what the differences were till now. I think I'll be leaning towards a CA then when I'm done my undergrad :)

koshimaro

Dec 14th, 2004, 05:34 PM

So, from what I have read, for someone who has a degree in a unrelated field it would be as if I were starting undergrad again? Just for further info, I am in my third year, so I am not a mature student, and am not currently employed etc etc, I am full time, but in a Life Sciences program, which leaves little room me to take any other courses.
The bottom line is I am looking to get qualified, I came to the sad realization that with my undergrad degree I will not be as employable as I would like.

watewate

Dec 14th, 2004, 05:37 PM

I'd suggest that you finish your undergrad in Life Sci then apply to UofT's MMPA program that's offered at the Mississauga campus. It's meant for people like yourself with no background in accounting. It's pricey, but you'll likely need two years doing all the necessary courses anyways.

gh05t

Dec 14th, 2004, 05:44 PM

some great info above. I also learned alot i did not know.I too considered the CA but only after wasting lots of time on IT only to find out i would never get an IT job without an IT degree. Calculus stopped me dead in my tracks with IT. Now i am jsut too old to get into it and might just consider CGA or CMA.

I have a friend with more experience than me and an English CA designation. He got a job at one of the big Three audit firms and now must qualify as a CA and has one year to do the relevant exams to keep his job.
CA is for the cream of the crop as you must have alll Bs or above in the core requirements and i know at York they now allow you to repeat a passed course to get a better grade if you are aiming for a CA.

IT's lots of work but is worth it because of the pay, plus the job market is stable and not like IT, but Audit firms work you to the bone.

Quite frankly you are not in a bad field right now either, as anything in the health field right now is hot and will be for many years to come. And if you like the field you are in and you find Canada sucks which it does, then you can go to the US or other places.

Wildfire

Dec 14th, 2004, 05:53 PM

gh05t

Dec 14th, 2004, 06:31 PM

Good for you wildfire. My problem is I was initially in Accounting doing ACCA and had not finished. When i came to Canada CA said they do not recognise it without experience and so it was worthless.I decided to switch to computer science since my brother was doing well in the field. i did 2 years of computer science at UFT before i failed out with Calculus. Then to make things worst i continued in IT doing a diploma in programming,MCSE exams Sun certification(full) only to find out i could not be hired for the jobs that require those skills without experience or a degree in IT or Comp Sci. A big waste of time for me before getting back to accounting at York plus york could not give more than 30 credits from my previous studies.So you are still in a much better position than myself having not wasted as much time in IT. good luck.

watewate

Dec 14th, 2004, 06:53 PM

Look into CISA after getting your CA. CISA + CA = VERY good opportunities.

Temujin

Dec 14th, 2004, 08:26 PM

Look into CISA after getting your CA. CISA + CA = VERY good opportunities.
What's CISA?

For those who want to combine IT with accounting, you can get a CA*IT designation. It requires the the completion of the CA program plus at least 30 months of IT specialization, usually in IT auditing or AIS implementation.

Probably the best unbiased description of the 3 designations: http://www.becomea.ca/bca.php?cat=11

koshimaro

Dec 14th, 2004, 09:25 PM

Wow I hate it when, growing up, people always tell you that it is okay not to know what you want to do when you grow up, or what field you should enter etc etc. I don't fancy the idea of changing my degree focus midway and stretching it out for an extended 6+ year undergrad experience.
On a related note, about finding a niche in this world, has anyone done any post graduate programs at a college like centenial, or seneca after getting their degree?
I emailed a few people about HR pograms and getting a CHRP qualification ,as that sector seems to be expanding quite rapidly...any opinions/experiences?

DavidY

Dec 14th, 2004, 10:31 PM

I suggest taking a course in financial accounting and then managerial accounting....to see if you like that sort of a career. IMO, unless you really like accounting and numbers, I prefer a MBA instead....I am a bit biased as I went through a 1 year mini-MBA program which includes courses in financial and managerial accounting.

IMO, one can do more with a MBA (and earn more if you have the drive) than a CA/CMA/CGA, especially if you are not totally satisfied with accounting.

Dave

trusoulja2g

Dec 15th, 2004, 12:14 AM

Fastest way to get the CA courses done without a commerce degree is by doing an accounting stream MBA. For example, McMaster's MBA programs offers all 17 courses, which you can do in 2 years along with your MBA.

My opinion on the different designations is this: the CA is the only one where the designation alone will get you a good job. That doesn't mean it's more relevant to the workplace than the CMA, and there are plenty of successful people with CMA and CGA, but that depends more on factors outside of your education. The CA, because of the rigour involved in getting it, tells employers that you're a smart person who works hard. The fact that every CA goes through the brutal articling period in an audit firm is an important part of the designation's prestige and appeal.

Final Lazy

Dec 15th, 2004, 12:19 AM

What's CISA?

CISA: just need to pass this exam(s).

http://www.isaca.org/Template.cfm?Section=Certification&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=8604

Freezer

Jan 30th, 2005, 03:14 PM

The Majority of the people are taking CGA. CGA is more of the financial Accountant Role. CA is more of an Auditor Role and CMA is more of a Managerial/Operations Role. It all depends on your cup of Tea.

I would rate CA one of the toughest jobs. You have to audit really messy accounts where as CGA's just get the job done.

All in all regardless of which degsignation you do, there is always OT work as a requirement of your job positition. If you are on Salary, then you get screwed as you don't get the OT pay.

1226

Jan 30th, 2005, 08:00 PM

CA is more of an Auditor Role

That's not really true. Close to half of CA's are in industry and never audit anything. Most of the rest (in public practice) only audit part of the year. Only a pretty small portion of CA's focus solely on audits.

I'd say a CA is more like a jack-of-all-trades (for lack of a better word). Their training/experience includes tax, audit, financial and managerial aspects, while CMA's focus on internal management and CGA's financial and tax (and to a lesser extent audit).

Final Lazy

Feb 2nd, 2005, 02:43 AM

That's not really true. Close to half of CA's are in industry and never audit anything. Most of the rest (in public practice) only audit part of the year. Only a pretty small portion of CA's focus solely on audits.

Agree. They hire people do most of the audit work even if their firm/dept is auditing based.

I'd say a CA is more like a jack-of-all-trades (for lack of a better word). Their training/experience includes tax, audit, financial and managerial aspects, while CMA's focus on internal management and CGA's financial and tax (and to a lesser extent audit).

I actually believe that CGA would be the most likely be doing anything remotely similar to auditing out of the 3 occupations. CA is not everything, it is only how you present yourself to this field that will be key. You can be a CA and be doing books for a local grocery store, earning the same as a college grad with an accounting diploma. If an employer believes that a CMA could do assurance, then the CMA get the job. In terms of having a title or a piece of paper, a CA might be more advantegous in some sense, but I could prolly get a million people in the GTA who could be more qualified to handle tax or finance than someone with only a CA.

george benjamin

Nov 26th, 2006, 09:57 PM

Hey koshimaro,

As watewate said, you need to look into the MMPA program. Its perfect for people like you. PM for ANY questions.

Best of Luck.

krash322

Nov 27th, 2006, 06:02 PM

From personal experience, it's not a bad thing to realize you want to do something else mid-stream. Just think about how old you are, and then figure out how many years of work life is ahead of you. Myself, I got a BA in Economics at U of T. After graduation, didnt find a job I liked. I bit the bullet and went to Ryerson for another 4 years of undergrad to study accounting. I finished when I was 26 and know I made the right choice. Even at 26, I would have close to 40 years of work ahead of me. You're probably 20 or 21, no big deal at all to switch at this point. I got my CGA shortly after graduating from Ryerson. I didnt want to be a CA because those three years you put in initially are hell. CAs are not as superior as people make them out to be. Take my word for it, I've seen and been around enough accountants. I'm getting paid as much as the next guy who's a CA now.

chickenbones

Nov 27th, 2006, 06:50 PM

Ok, so now to further worsen my situation, I will have none of the requirements from my undergraduate degree as it is a B. Sc in Health Studies/Psych. Do I have to take other course to qualifiy to even take the CA courses?
This also seemed like a better choice than getting an MBA to me, not to mention on the CA site they say the median income is 68K and average is 131K :!:
Also do you know approx how long it would take one to get the full designation?

btw..thanks for replying :D

Everybody on this board wants to be a CA, it's the latest fad. If you really want to make lots of money you should go be a dentist.

I mean you have a B. Sc in Health Studies, which means you have never take n more than introductory accounting or finance or anything business probably. What makes you think you can just be a CA.

It's not as easy as, wow they make a lot of money, so I'll be a CA tomorrow! You should at least try to pass a few courses and see how you do, before you try to jump on the band wagon.

koshimaro

Nov 27th, 2006, 07:53 PM

Everybody on this board wants to be a CA, it's the latest fad. If you really want to make lots of money you should go be a dentist.

I mean you have a B. Sc in Health Studies, which means you have never take n more than introductory accounting or finance or anything business probably. What makes you think you can just be a CA.

It's not as easy as, wow they make a lot of money, so I'll be a CA tomorrow! You should at least try to pass a few courses and see how you do, before you try to jump on the band wagon.

If I have a B. Sc. in Health Studies I also probably haven't taken any courses which will prepare me to be a dentist? What makes you think I can just be a dentist? http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/dunno.gif
Since the original post (just under 2 years ago) I have since graduated and gone back to school for a post grad HR Management porgram. So far it's keeping me busy, but within HR I'm still unsure of the route I want to take. I'm chaning the title to "Any CHRP's here?" :D

chickenbones

Nov 27th, 2006, 08:52 PM

If I have a B. Sc. in Health Studies I also probably haven't taken any courses which will prepare me to be a dentist? What makes you think I can just be a dentist? http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/dunno.gif
Since the original post (just under 2 years ago) I have since graduated and gone back to school for a post grad HR Management porgram. So far it's keeping me busy, but within HR I'm still unsure of the route I want to take. I'm chaning the title to "Any CHRP's here?" :D

This thread is two years OLD? Holy! Anyway, do a search there have been good threads about CHRP here. Good luck!