should canada list tamil tigers as a terrorist group?

[asim99]

note: it is an open public poll

an interesting read
canada has so far refused to name tamil tigers as a terrorist group

http://www.mackenzieinstitute.com/2005/newsletter040105.htm

# The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam are one of the world’s deadliest terrorist groups
# . They fomented a civil war that has claimed some 65,000 lives; pioneered the use of the suicide belt bomb; are the only group to have killed two national leaders; and used — until Arafat started the Second Intifada in 2000 — more suicide attackers than the combined total of all other terrorist groups around the world. The LTTE is highly advanced in their use of political and fundraising techniques
# . Throughout the 1980s and ‘90s, the Tigers raised the standards for all other groups with the size and sophistication of their international fundraising and political apparatus. Having first created an international Diaspora of Sri Lankan Tamils, they have battened on this overseas community to fuel their insurgency ever since. This has meant that Tamils living in Australia, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Norway, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom were expected to toe the Tiger line and contribute to their war chest. The Tigers are active in Canada
# . The primary leadership groups for the Tamil Community in Canada are fronts for the Tamil Tigers. They raise money here for the terrorists and strive to advance the Tiger cause. Although the leaders of the Tamil community (almost all appointed from within the ranks of the Fronts) claim there are about 250,000 Sri Lankan Tamils here, our last census only found some 92,000 people who claimed Tamil as their birth language. This Tiger presence is not good for us
# . The LTTE’s open presence here undermines Canada’s credibility, weakens our relations with other nations, and costs our taxpayers enormous sums of money. This last point reflects the incredible costs that accrue from illegal immigration (an LTTE fundraising specialty) and the subsidies from Canadian governments — particularly Ottawa — to their front organizations for immigration related services. The Tiger presence is not good for Canadian Tamils
. There have been physical attacks on Canadian Tamils who have stood up against the Tigers. Others resent the imposition of war taxes, the intimidation of their community, and the false hero worship that the Tigers’ fronts encourage. Canadian Tamils cannot be free to fully participate in Canadian life until they are rid of the Tiger presence.

Other countries have taken action to limit the ability of LTTE to dominate and feed off their expatriate communities. Plainly, they recognized the first five points as they pertained to Diaspora Tamils in their own nations.

Now for some fundamental lessons about terrorists and peace processes…
# Terrorism is not a ‘political’ problem.
# Yes, terrorism certainly has a political dimension, but treating a symptom is not the same thing as attacking the disease. The real ‘root cause’ of terrorism lies within the internal psychological domain of the leaders who create terrorist movements — for reasons associated with their own self-image and personal ambitions. You can not hope to tackle a terrorist group without recognizing this. Look how well the "Peace Process" worked with Arafat and in Ulster.
# Arafat used the 1994 Oslo Agreement to return to the West Bank (although Palestinians were certainly not unanimous about the benefits of his return). He then connived at increased attacks on Israel, culminating in the murderous Second Intifada of 2000-2004. The culmination of ten years of non-progress in Ulster — all thanks to the intractability of the IRA and Sinn Fein — was the multi-million dollar bank robbery of last December. Arafat and the ‘Hard Men’ of the IRA were alike in being absolutely unwilling to disarm and learn the arts of peaceful negotiation. The Tigers don’t care About Peace.
# As a result of the 9-11 attacks, it looked like most Western nations were about to take a far more aggressive stand against international terrorism — even Canada was contemplating a set of tough new anti-terror laws. Locked into a stalemated campaign against the Sri Lankan Army, the LTTE evidently feared that they could be badly damaged in their overseas sanctuaries, and so declared a sudden new interest in peace talks in February 2002. However, they have refused to yield on any substantive issues and have taken advantage of the pause to restock their cadres (with child soldiers especially), their arsenal, and their war chest. The Tigers are gearing up for the war again.
# Even before the 2004 Tsunami, the LTTE showed clear signs that they were preparing to restart the war. They were holding rallies and running communications to their Diaspora community to mentally prepare them for this in the Autumn of 2004, and have used opportunities caused by the December Tsunami to try and create a casus belli. Even now, a pattern of provocative skirmishes (such as the Tigers engaged in before 1983) has begun in Sri Lanka. Do we want to share responsibility for the renewal of the civil war in Sri Lanka?
Insurgents love having sanctuary areas — places where they can recruit, raise money, refit and rest. It is the one asset that all terrorists dream of having, and the first advantage that those who fight against them must seek to eliminate. Canada’s refusal to act against the LTTE has provided them with such a sanctuary, and has no doubt been a major consideration in the Tigers’ assessment of their situation. What Afghanistan was to Bin Laden, so Canada is to the Tigers.

Finally, let’s inject some realism into our conceptions about peace. The purpose of diplomacy and negotiation is not about gaining recognition and status for foreign ministers and their home country — it is about ending the waste of human lives and the destruction of property as quickly but also as permanently as possible. Against this, nothing else matters.

As an aside, the modern penchant for many Western nations to jump into peace talks with both flat feet is not always welcome. In May of 2004, for instance, the author was in Israel and the West Bank. The time spent with a Palestinian driver-translator on the West Bank was particularly instructive for both of us; and he asked me if I thought peace was possible between his people and the Israelis. I thought that it was, provided that they separated themselves. He went quiet for a while and then exploded later: "I wish next time we talk peace, everyone else would stay out! We just need one person — someone that we both respect — to handle negotiations. We don’t need everyone else!"

After some discussion, it turned out that Arabs and Anglo-Saxons have a similar expression —that too many cooks spoil the meal. If we still feel compelled to help out, remember this…
# Terrorist leaders are people who chose violence to achieve status and influence — don’t give them what they want.
# Terrorism must not be seen to be effective, and those who resort to atrocity and deception to earn themselves a favorable mention in history cannot be allowed to achieve this. Why respect the dignity of terrorist leaders?
# With the passage of years, terrorist leaders inevitably grow corrupt and tyrannize the very people they claim to lead… and with the LTTE, its founder wasted no time in reaching this stage. There are hundreds of thousands of Tamils who want delivery from the LTTE and a peaceful life. Who are we to deny them this? Peace is not a good substitute for victory.
# In 1938, Neville Chamberlain came back from Munich with an agreement signed by Hitler, promising "peace in our time". In 1945, Germany and Japan’s cities were burned-out rubble, their armies broken, their fleets sunk, and the boots of the Allied forces were on their soil. Chamberlain’s negotiated peace lasted barely eleven months, victory brought a peace to Western Europe and much of the Pacific that has endured for 60 years so far. Moreover, the Japanese and Germans are close allies and valued friends now. We can make a contribution to peace in Sri Lanka.
# All we have to do is demolish the ability of the LTTE’s fronts to operate here — this will deprive the Tigers of a vital source of revenue and go far to damage their credibility and prestige. If we act quickly, we may even prevent the war from starting up again. The people of Sri Lanka (Sinhalese and Tamils alike) can do the rest, particularly if they know the Tigers have just been seriously weakened. Ottawa already implicitly recognizes that the Tigers are terrorists.
No surprise here; the police and security agencies of the Federal Government have long known exactly what the Tigers are. Moreover, Ottawa’s statement that we will not list the Tigers because we do not want to endanger the "peace process" in Sri Lanka now puts the onus on the LTTE. If they succeed in restarting the war, or even continue to refuse to make real progress, then it is incumbent on Ottawa to act against them.

[konfusion666]

Nope.

The lead to make the LTTE a terrorist group in Canada is lead primarily by Stephen Harper.

Funny to see asim99 agreeing with Harper on something... perhaps there's a bit of neo-con in you, eh?

Jack Layton and Paul Martin, on the other hand, don't support making the LTTE a terrorist group...

[Mace]

Removed

[wanted]

Removed

[Carpe Diem]

Welcome back...

[konfusion666]

Welcome back...

Wonder how long before he makes another anti-Tamil remark which lands him into a 3-day ban?

[devious9191]

asim99 is an extremist and ***.

lol. I haven't seen anything in asim's post to suggest that he is any kind of extremist.

[wanted]

lol. I haven't seen anything in asim's post to suggest that he is any kind of extremist.

His dedication to anti-tamilism


*ps, i still think he's sri lankan

[asim99]

i will ignore the personal attacks -- those have been reported to the mods

there is no need to keep tamil tigers out of a list of terrorist groups, since this is an organization whose intimidation tactics are no better than those already on the list

canadian citizens who financially support this group should be monitored and investigated

[devious9191]

Wonder how long before he makes another anti-Tamil remark which lands him into a 3-day ban?

This post is not 'anti-tamil'. The tamil tigers are an armed group which uses guerilla tactics to try and force political change. These guerilla tactics include kidnapping and murdering civilians. That's pretty much the definition of a terrorist act, so I don't see how anyone could disagree that this group is in fact, a group of terrorists. Whether you agree with what they're fighting for is not the point. It's their methods that make them terrorists.

[asim99]

His dedication to anti-tamilism

*ps, i still think he's sri lankan

i am not anti-tamil
i am anti-"tamil terrorists" and their supporters

disclaimer: i am not sri lankan...simply a concerned canadian citizen

[konfusion666]

i am anti-"tamil terrorists" and their supporters

disclaimer: i am not sri lankan...simply a concerned canadian citizen

Yup, Stephen Harper said the exact same thing.

[wanted]

i am not anti-tamil
i am anti-"tamil terrorists" and their supporters

disclaimer: i am not sri lankan...simply a concerned canadian citizen

that's why you're an extremist

[canabiz]

So what's the difference between Tamils and Sri Lankans ? Pardon my ignorance

I don't have a problem with the Tamils per se but i do have a problem with lots of them getting welfare in T.O. and other places and send the dough back home for funding for their compatriots

By all means continue for the quest for independence but don't rob the Canadian taxpayers :)

[devious9191]

Yup, Stephen Harper said the exact same thing.

And rightfully so. How can anyone be sympathetic to a group that uses civilian casualties to accomplish their goals?

[asim99]

i find this quote from the post quite scary:


What Afghanistan was to Bin Laden, so Canada is to the Tigers.

[devious9191]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/526407.stm


The fighting force is said to be around 10,000 men and women, who use artillery, surface-to-air missiles and rocket launchers. They also are known to recruit under-age children to fight.

Apart from fighting a conventional war, the apparent willingness of the Tigers to target civilians has been highlighted in instances when they have deliberately attacked villagers.

In one pre-dawn attack in late 1999, Tiger units were accused of hacking to death women and children in a majority Sinhala village.

The LTTE is also blamed for ethnically cleansing Jaffna, when they asked all non-Tamils to leave the de facto Tamil state in 1990.

[devious9191]

So what's the difference between Tamils and Sri Lankans ? Pardon my ignorance

I don't have a problem with the Tamils per se but i do have a problem with lots of them getting welfare in T.O. and other places and send the dough back home for funding for their compatriots

By all means continue for the quest for independence but don't rob the Canadian taxpayers :)

http://cfrterrorism.org/groups/tamiltigers.html


The Tamils are an ethnic group who live in southern India (mainly in the state of Tamil Nadu) and on Sri Lanka, an island of 19 million people off the southern tip of India. Tamils comprise about 18 percent of the island’s population, and most live in northern and eastern areas. Their religion (most are Hindu) and Tamil language set them apart from the three-quarters of Sri Lankans who are Sinhalese—members of a largely Buddhist, Sinhala-speaking ethnic group. When Sri Lanka was ruled by the British, the Tamil minority was seen to have received preferential treatment. Since Sri Lanka became independent in 1948, the Sinhalese majority has dominated the country. The remainder of Sri Lanka’s population includes ethnic Muslims as well as Tamil and Sinhalese Christians.

[masterhapposai]

anyone that goes around with missile launchers shooting at live targets and are not part of the army, are likely terrorists.

simple enough

don't have to be extreme to understand that

[Boss_Scorpius]

Now that the tables are turned I like to see how our tamil friend thinks about his racist(not even racist, more like religionist...is there such a word?) immigration policies.

[Bordello]

Now that the tables are turned I like to see how our tamil friend thinks about his racist(not even racist, more like religionist...is there such a word?) immigration policies.
If it works to keep out terrorists, then I'm all for it.

[asim99]

If it works to keep out terrorists, then I'm all for it.

what i find bothersome is not just 'tamil tiger' presence in canada, but that there are so many good law-abiding tamil canadians who raise funds for the activity of this organization, many times under the fear of intimidation

[hagbard]

Sure, when the Canadian gov't puts itself on that list.

[d_jedi]

I don't know a great deal about the conflict in Sri Lanka, but from what I've heard.. they definately sound like a terrorist organization.

[d_jedi]

Sure, when the Canadian gov't puts itself on that list.
:confused: :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes:

[asim99]

5 against
i can understand the rationale of only one, who is a self-proclaimed anarchist

[konfusion666]

What's sad is how you get all your uninformed opinions on this subject from... right-wing think-tanks?

[devious9191]

What's sad is how you get all your uninformed opinions on this subject from... right-wing think-tanks?

What exactly is your opinion on the subject? How is this group justified in bombing the world trade centre?

Although you may believe that they have the fundamental right to defend themselves (and they do), how are they justified in intentionally carrying out terrorist acts against civilians? How can you say that this isn't a terrorist organization?

[pd0x]

is the IRA considered a Terrorist group by Canada? If yes, then the tamils tigers should be classified as terrorists, if not, then no.

[konfusion666]

What exactly is your opinion on the subject? How is this group justified in bombing the world trade centre?

The LTTE has never bombed the world trade centre.


how are they justified in intentionally carrying out terrorist acts against civilians? How can you say that this isn't a terrorist organization?

It's arguable as to what extent they have intentionally carried out terrorist acts against civilians, as the majority of such accusations have come from the Sri Lankan government.

Please educate yourself on the S.L. conflict. Read up on the Norwegian/UN-brokered peace process, the 4-year ceasefire... the reasons given by Justice Minister Irwin Cotler for NOT listing them as a terrorist group... and how about the roots of the conflict, such as the ethnic cleansing "Kristallnacht"-like riots of 1983.

This thread seems more like asim99's knee-jerk response to Mace's Anti-Muslim threads, than anything else...

[konfusion666]

is the IRA considered a Terrorist group by Canada? If yes, then the tamils tigers should be classified as terrorists, if not, then no.

The IRA is not considered a terrorist group by the Government of Canada.

list (http://www.psepc-sppcc.gc.ca/national_security/counter-terrorism/Entities_e.asp)

[asim99]

The LTTE has never bombed the world trade centre.

they are held reponsible for a very significant murder (besides many many others)...how is that not terrorism

from wikipedia:

Support from India dropped noticeably in 1991, after the assassination of a recently ex-Prime Minister of India, Rajiv Gandhi, by a woman suicide bomber widely believed to be an LTTE member.


It's arguable as to what extent they have intentionally carried out terrorist acts against civilians, as the majority of such accusations have come from the Sri Lankan government.

Please educate yourself on the S.L. conflict. Read up on the Norwegian/UN-brokered peace process, the 4-year ceasefire... the reasons given by Justice Minister Irwin Cotler for NOT listing them as a terrorist group... and how about the roots of the conflict, such as the ethnic cleansing "Kristallnacht"-like riots of 1983.

human rights watch is an international body...their reports are quite critical of the tactics of tigers...

Child Tsunami Victims Recruited by Tamil Tigers
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/01/14/slanka10016.htm


This thread seems more like asim99's knee-jerk response to Mace's Anti-Muslim threads, than anything else...

no comment

[devious9191]

The LTTE has never bombed the world trade centre.

I should have clarified. The world trade centre in Colombo. And yes they did, and they killed 18 civilians.

http://cfrterrorism.org/groups/tamiltigers.html


It's arguable as to what extent they have intentionally carried out terrorist acts against civilians, as the majority of such accusations have come from the Sri Lankan government.

Please educate yourself on the S.L. conflict. Read up on the Norwegian/UN-brokered peace process, the 4-year ceasefire... the reasons given by Justice Minister Irwin Cotler for NOT listing them as a terrorist group... and how about the roots of the conflict, such as the ethnic cleansing "Kristallnacht"-like riots of 1983.

This thread seems more like asim99's knee-jerk response to Mace's Anti-Muslim threads, than anything else...

I actually know a fair amount about the conflict.


The LTTE is notorious for its suicide bombings. Since the late 1980s, the group has conducted some 200 suicide bombings—far more than any other terrorist group. LTTE suicide bombers have attacked civilians on mass transit, at Buddhist shrines, and in office buildings. In October 1997, a suicide truck bomb killed 18 people at the 39-story World Trade Centre in Colombo, Sri Lanka’s capital.

Beyond suicide bombings, the LTTE have used conventional bombs against political and civilian targets and have gunned down both Sri Lankan officials and civilians. LTTE fighters wear cyanide capsules around their necks, so they can commit suicide if they are captured.

http://cfrterrorism.org/groups/tamiltigers.html



The LTTE has integrated a battlefield insurgent strategy with a terrorist program that targets key government and military personnel, the economy, and public infrastructure. Political assassinations include the suicide bomber attacks against Sri Lankan President Ranasinghe Premadasa in 1993 and Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi in 1991, which is the group's only known act outside Sri Lanka. The LTTE has detonated two massive truck bombs directed against the Sri Lankan economy, one at the Central Bank in January 1996 and another at the Colombo World Trade Center in October 1997. The LTTE also has attacked several ships in Sri Lankan waters, including foreign commercial vessels and infrastructure targets such as commuter trains, buses, oil tanks, and power stations. The LTTE prefers to attack vulnerable government facilities then withdraw before reinforcements arrive, or to time its attacks to take advantage of security lapses on holidays, at night, or in the early morning.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/ltte.htm

[devious9191]

The IRA is not considered a terrorist group by the Government of Canada.

list (http://www.psepc-sppcc.gc.ca/national_security/counter-terrorism/Entities_e.asp)

Another group that should be.

[konfusion666]

I actually know a fair amount about the conflict.

Your links all belong in the same "quarter" of the political spectrum, so I have difficulty taking that phrase at face value...


Support from India dropped noticeably in 1991, after the assassination of a recently ex-Prime Minister of India, Rajiv Gandhi, by a woman suicide bomber widely believed to be an LTTE member.

Correct, they have committed terrorist acts in the past ... just like the IRA.

Apart from a continued recruitment of "child soldiers" they have kept their hands clean for the past 5 years. The recruiting of "child soldiers", while unacceptable by UN Human Rights standards, is not sufficient to brand a group as a terrorist organization imho.


no comment

For the record, I disagreed with the Anti-Muslim threads and thought they should have been locked as soon as they were posted.

[UrbanPoet]

So what's the difference between Tamils and Sri Lankans ? Pardon my ignorance

I don't have a problem with the Tamils per se but i do have a problem with lots of them getting welfare in T.O. and other places and send the dough back home for funding for their compatriots

By all means continue for the quest for independence but don't rob the Canadian taxpayers :)

its like the difference between french Canadians and english speaking canada

Taiwan and MainLand China

Toronto Ontario Maple leafs and the Ottawa Ontario Senators :-0

ENEMIES!

[AudiDude]

I thought the Tamil Tigers was a baseball team before I read the first post!

[Marc7]

fine, lets put the tigers as a terrorist group

[wanted]

fine, lets put the tigers as a terrorist group


What about the Lankan Lions :lol:

[Marc7]

lions go in as well

[that_staples_guy]

is the IRA considered a Terrorist group by Canada? If yes, then the tamils tigers should be classified as terrorists, if not, then no.


Exactly, as a Quebec born Tamil who's never left North American soil, I think that the tigers shouldn't be regarded as terrorist, they're simply fighting over land. If the Sri Lankan prime minister wasn't such a dofus then all this wouldn't have happened.

[anvah]

The LTTE has never bombed the world trade centre.



It's arguable as to what extent they have intentionally carried out terrorist acts against civilians, as the majority of such accusations have come from the Sri Lankan government.

Please educate yourself on the S.L. conflict. Read up on the Norwegian/UN-brokered peace process, the 4-year ceasefire... the reasons given by Justice Minister Irwin Cotler for NOT listing them as a terrorist group... and how about the roots of the conflict, such as the ethnic cleansing "Kristallnacht"-like riots of 1983.

This thread seems more like asim99's knee-jerk response to Mace's Anti-Muslim threads, than anything else...

Nice try. I have read up on the topic. Also, I have a number of friends from that area. I have spoken with sympathizers and non alike.

LTTE fits all the definition of a terrorist group. They have zero desire for peace. Maybe in the past they did. Now they want power, and more of it. You speak of ethnic cleansing? What of LTTE's attacks against Muslims and Buddhists in that area? Do you deny that LTTE actually tried to drive away many of the non-Tamil members from the area they control.

You seem to imply that LTTE does not target civillian targets. Luckly, we know better. LTTE has made no effort to stay away from civillian targets. More than that, they recruit young children less than 10 years old for their suicide bombings.

LTTE should be banned as a terrorist organization. People who support LTTE should be expelled from Canada if they are here as refugee's. If they are here as immigrants, they should also be expelled. If they are citizens, their past should be carefully looked at to ensure they did not lie on their application. If they did, they should be stripped and expelled.

I have zero symphathy for LTTE and their supporters. There was a time when they faught for peace and equality for the Tamils. But like it has happened many times before for various organizations (like the IRA now, like the khalistanis before), they don't even represent many Tamil's anymore. From what I've read and from the people (including the journalist in Toronto who lives in fear because of his articles against LTTE) I've listened to, LTTE is feared by many Tamil's because of their brutal tactits.

Ban the LTTE. I would support this. And if you think I'm a mini-Harper, you have no idea what you're talking about. Read my prior posts.

Anvah

[konfusion666]

Ban the LTTE. I would support this. And if you think I'm a mini-Harper, you have no idea what you're talking about. Read my prior posts.


Unfortunately for us in Canada, Mr. Harper does not have the monopoly on racism, and there are in fact many who oppose him who show themselves to be racist as well. And you would be one of them. Congratulations. :lol:

The fact is, anyone who believes in such absolutist punishment for freedom of belief, is no better than a facist Harper-supporter who also secretly counts himself a member of the Canadian Heritage Alliance...

[anvah]

Unfortunately for us in Canada, Mr. Harper does not have the monopoly on racism, and there are in fact many who oppose him who show themselves to be racist as well. And you would be one of them. Congratulations. :lol:

The fact is, anyone who believes in such absolutist punishment for freedom of belief, is no better than a facist Harper-supporter who also secretly counts himself a member of the Canadian Heritage Alliance...

Hahaha.

You are a funny boy. Instead of attacking me on the merits of my case, you use a very old and very tired Circumstantial Ad Hominem attack.

I don't like people who recruit children to blow others up. If that means I'm in the same league as Harper, then I'm proud to be so. I believe that evil should always be condemned. YES! I'm an absolutist when it comes to evil. Evil should never go unpunished.

You may live in a fantasy land where we can say 'Yay. You support LTTE? Stay here a while. Let us party.' I do not.

Anvah

[konfusion666]

I believe that evil should always be condemned. YES! I'm an absolutist when it comes to evil. Evil should never go unpunished.

So basically, you're a Conservative. I wonder what the whole point of that big spat with Txia was. Maybe you had some sort of love/hate fetish going on...

BTW your "case" can hardly be shown to have merit if you simply make statements without references or sources.

[devious9191]

I didn't see your reply when this thread was still active, but I guess I'll reply now.


Your links all belong in the same "quarter" of the political spectrum, so I have difficulty taking that phrase at face value...

If you believe that my links are crap, maybe you have an alternate source that says who bombed the world trade centre. Or maybe you have a source that says that this bombing never occurred? Maybe you also have a source that says that the assassination last week of the Sri Lankan president was not the Tamil Tigers.


Correct, they have committed terrorist acts in the past ... just like the IRA.

:confused:


Apart from a continued recruitment of "child soldiers" they have kept their hands clean for the past 5 years. The recruiting of "child soldiers", while unacceptable by UN Human Rights standards, is not sufficient to brand a group as a terrorist organization imho.

How about the slaughter and targetting of civilians? Still not enough? Or maybe there's a timeline that we're not aware of. Don't kill a civilian for 2 years, and you're off the no-fly list?

[konfusion666]

If you believe that my links are crap, maybe you have an alternate source that says who bombed the world trade centre.

It is obvious to anyone that your links are definitely from the Neo-Con side of politics but when you originally mentioned WTC you didn't say it was a building complex in S.L. -- I think anyone would assume New York when WTC is mentioned.



Maybe you also have a source that says that the assassination last week of the Sri Lankan president was not the Tamil Tigers.

The Sri Lankan president was not assassinated last week. LOL.
(yes, someone was assassinated but it wasn't the President. at any rate, there are dozens of militant groups operating in that country who could take credit for it ... just like Palestine)



Don't kill a civilian for 2 years, and you're off the no-fly list?

The fact is, they have had a ceasefire with the Sri Lankan govt for the past 3 years and listing them as a terrorist organization at this point in the game isn't going to help prolong it (and/or develop it into a more permanent settlement)

[devious9191]

It is obvious to anyone that your links are definitely from the Neo-Con side of politics but when you originally mentioned WTC you didn't say it was a building complex in S.L. -- I think anyone would assume New York when WTC is mentioned.

lol. So what? It's been clarified... you know what I'm talking about now... yet you still don't believe that this group is responsible.. which is fine. Are you able to provide any source at all that disputes the fact that they were responsible?


The Sri Lankan president was not assassinated last week. LOL.
(yes, someone was assassinated but it wasn't the President. at any rate, there are dozens of militant groups operating in that country who could take credit for it ... just like Palestine)

Ahh. Yeah, my fault. The foreign minister. Give me a break. They found a tripod in a house that is owned by members of the Tigers...



The fact is, they have had a ceasefire with the Sri Lankan govt for the past 3 years and listing them as a terrorist organization at this point in the game isn't going to help prolong it (and/or develop it into a more permanent settlement)

They're a terrorist group.. and should be listed as such by our government. Whether you sympathize with them or not, really isn't the issue.

[killuminati]

Maybe you also have a source that says that the assassination last week of the Sri Lankan president was not the Tamil Tigers.




First it was the Foreign Minister NOT the President.
Second I missed the link where it states that it was actually the Tigers; so far its all speculation and blame. The Tigers are denying it and it is known that there are other organizations that want to destroy the ceasfire agreement for other reasons.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300727_2.html

thats just the first link I found, but all other news reports are pretty much the same thing. also it should be noted that only 5 countries have the tigers labelled as terrorists; 2 being the US and UK, anyone that doesnt look like them is pretty much on their list...

[anvah]

So basically, you're a Conservative. I wonder what the whole point of that big spat with Tixxy was. Maybe you had some sort of love/hate fetish going on...

BTW your "case" can hardly be shown to have merit if you simply make statements without references or sources.

Haha...Yep, I'm a conservative just like Harper loves Gays and Bush decries the rise in oil prices. Listen, just because I don't like people who recruit children to blow others up doesn't make me a Conservative. But I think you're a bit too young to understand that.

So, adieu and good luck.

Anvah

[that_staples_guy]

Hey, if the Tigers have stopped recruiting kids then good, if you keep labelling them as terrorists they would see that there is no improvement in terms of the public's perception on them, heck they even may go back to doing so.

[fakishan]

They found a tripod in a house that is owned by members of the Tigers...
They're a terrorist group.. and should be listed as such by our government. Whether you sympathize with them or not, really isn't the issue.

+ any Tamil arrested is labelled Tamil Tiger.

+ terrorists are called freedom fighters elsewhere (ie. americans are terrorists to a lot of middle east countries and south american countries).

let's RIGHTFULLY label americans as a terrorist-rogue nation.

most "rebel" initiatives are called terrorism - UNTIL they win, thereafter they are freedom fighters, and deserve their victory.

it's all perception, depends on which side of the fence YOU are, and disagreeing with something just because it is on the other side is being a hypocrite, and worse.

I could understand you standing against a group that attacks you, but if it doesn't, stfu, you're just reasoning out of boredom. remember than the yankees were considered terrorists when they tried to free themselves from the brits.

it's all perception.

so what if they employ children?, life is very different there, better sacrifice a few generations of children so that there is ANY chance for a future generation to live decently.

you must be thinking the children there were playing their PS2's and were pulled out and put into the army.... at least in the army they eat every day and live for a reason.

have you thought about a reason to live? you live to "succeed (happiness, equality, financial comfort)", the tamil people there cannot "suceed", they need to do what they need to.

[devious9191]

+ any Tamil arrested is labelled Tamil Tiger.

+ terrorists are called freedom fighters elsewhere (ie. americans are terrorists to a lot of middle east countries and south american countries).

let's RIGHTFULLY label americans as a terrorist-rogue nation.

most "rebel" initiatives are called terrorism - UNTIL they win, thereafter they are freedom fighters, and deserve their victory.

it's all perception, depends on which side of the fence YOU are, and disagreeing with something just because it is on the other side is being a hypocrite, and worse.

I could understand you standing against a group that attacks you, but if it doesn't, stfu, you're just reasoning out of boredom. remember than the yankees were considered terrorists when they tried to free themselves from the brits.

it's all perception.

so what if they employ children?, life is very different there, better sacrifice a few generations of children so that there is ANY chance for a future generation to live decently.

you must be thinking the children there were playing their PS2's and were pulled out and put into the army.... at least in the army they eat every day and live for a reason.

have you thought about a reason to live? you live to "succeed (happiness, equality, financial comfort)", the tamil people there cannot "suceed", they need to do what they need to.

Give me a break. What makes a group a terrorist organization is their methods, not their cause. They employ children, and target civilians. That's really the end of the story.

[fakishan]

Give me a break. What makes a group a terrorist organization is their methods, not their cause. They employ children, and target civilians. That's really the end of the story.


wrong again, all wars have civilians casualties or are you just quick to forget?

Tiger's don't send suicide bombers on civilians, only on military vehicles and politicians. There is often collateral damage.

remember the american civil war? it was an rebellion and they recruited children.



like I said you just like your side of the fence and don't care for others.

give me a break, this group is far from having the biggest numbers of civilian kills or employed children.

what did you think of the vietnam war? did you think they the vietcong were terrorists or that they fought for they freedom and won justly?

it's all perception, and your's is flawed :)

[that_staples_guy]

wrong again, all wars have civilians casualties or are you just quick to forget?

Tiger's don't send suicide bombers on civilians, only on military vehicles and politicians. There is often collateral damage.

remember the american civil war? it was an rebellion and they recruited children.



like I said you jus like your side of the fence and don't care for others.

give me a break, this group is far from having the biggest numbers of civilian kills or employe children.

what did you think of the vietnam war? did you think they are terrorists or that they fought for they freedom and won justly?

it's all perception, and your's is flawed :)

Amen

[devious9191]

wrong again, all wars have civilians casualties or are you just quick to forget?

Tiger's don't send suicide bombers on civilians, only on military vehicles and politicians. There is often collateral damage.

remember the american civil war? it was an rebellion and they recruited children.



like I said you just like your side of the fence and don't care for others.

give me a break, this group is far from having the biggest numbers of civilian kills or employed children.

what did you think of the vietnam war? did you think they the vietcong were terrorists or that they fought for they freedom and won justly?

it's all perception, and your's is flawed :)

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1902207&postcount=33

They specifically target civilians.

[fakishan]

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1902207&postcount=33

They specifically target civilians.

like the a-bomb on hiroshima?

it's a war, they call it a rebellion to belittle it. in war, all things go.

your links are all from scrupulous organizations that exist for the sole purpose of listing terrorist organizations. I imagine you read their SHORT articles without fact checking. And even then, since you were biased enough to only want to find the articles that suported your preconceptions, you failed to notice what the website says about the LTTE's ennemy.

"How has the government of Sri Lanka dealt with the Tigers?
In the past, experts say, the Sri Lankan government fought the LTTE and supported and directed anti-LTTE militias, resulting in a heavy death toll on both sides, including civilians. Sri Lankan security agents fighting the Tigers have used torture and other tactics that violate human rights, according to the State Department and human rights groups. "

You dislike war and it's horrors like the rest of us, but it happens.

Most wars like the Iraq war are unecessary wars with a lot of casualties, while most rebellions are necessary wars. When people realized that the Sri Lankan police didn't protect them, but instead participated in the rape, torture and killings of Tamils during a nation wide anti-Tamil riot, they understood that they needed their own police force; their own country, to protect their own people.

Once you can make that distinction, you'll better understand why you cheered for the Rebels in Star Wars and not the Empire. I can only recall one rebellion that succeed in the thousands of rebellions in the last 2 millenias that didn't have any casualties; some french speaking carribean island, and they were lucky that the colonial power was busy with another major war.

Rebellions happen, and they all chose terrorist means, not because they are evil, but because it is the only way to achieve their goals. It is a war of attrition, and the ennemy has to come to terms that the war is not worth the casualties. And what do you say about a country that after 60,000 deaths hasn't surrendered? brave? foolish? or perhaps that most of those 60,000 weren't THEIR people.

[anvah]

like the a-bomb on hiroshima?

it's a war, they call it a rebellion to belittle it. in war, all things go.

your links are all from scrupulous organizations that exist for the sole purpose of listing terrorist organizations. I imagine you read their SHORT articles without fact checking. And even then, since you were biased enough to only want to find the articles that suported your preconceptions, you failed to notice what the website says about the LTTE's ennemy.

"How has the government of Sri Lanka dealt with the Tigers?
In the past, experts say, the Sri Lankan government fought the LTTE and supported and directed anti-LTTE militias, resulting in a heavy death toll on both sides, including civilians. Sri Lankan security agents fighting the Tigers have used torture and other tactics that violate human rights, according to the State Department and human rights groups. "

You dislike war and it's horrors like the rest of us, but it happens.

Most wars like the Iraq war are unecessary wars with a lot of casualties, while most rebellions are necessary wars. When people realized that the Sri Lankan police didn't protect them, but instead participated in the rape, torture and killings of Tamils during a nation wide anti-Tamil riot, they understood that they needed their own police force; their own country, to protect their own people.

Once you can make that distinction, you'll better understand why you cheered for the Rebels in Star Wars and not the Empire. I can only recall one rebellion that succeed in the thousands of rebellions in the last 2 millenias that didn't have any casualties; some french speaking carribean island, and they were lucky that the colonial power was busy with another major war.

Rebellions happen, and they all chose terrorist means, not because they are evil, but because it is the only way to achieve their goals. It is a war of attrition, and the ennemy has to come to terms that the war is not worth the casualties. And what do you say about a country that after 60,000 deaths hasn't surrendered? brave? foolish? or perhaps that most of those 60,000 weren't THEIR people.

I'm sorry, perhaps I've missed the post where devious or asim supported the Sri Lankan government.

What they're saying is that the LTTE uses tactics that should be condemed. You can believe all you want to justify their actions. As civilized people Canada should not condone their actions. As such, LTTE should be listed as a terrorist organization.

All you seem to be saying is, LTTE had no choice. They did. They have a right to protect their people. However, LTTE has gone way beyond that. Again, you ignore that fact that the LTTE has themselves participated in genocide. Speak to the Buddhists and Muslims in the LTTE controlled area.

You're right, the Sri Lankan government has not been good either. I don't condone what that government has done. Both should be listed as supporting terror and banned from entering Canada.

Anvah

[StrayB]

You're right, the Sri Lankan government has not been good either. I don't condone what that government has done. Both should be listed as supporting terror and banned from entering Canada.


So, we should refuse immigrants/refugees leaving their homeland under civil war? Nice.

[anvah]

So, we should refuse immigrants/refugees leaving their homeland under civil war? Nice.

Hmm....and you speaka English?

I said people who have supported LTTE or the Sri Lankan government. i.e - People who have either been part of their infrastructure or contributed financially.

And we already have such a structure in place. Now LTTE and the government should be added to it.

[StrayB]

Hmm....and you speaka English?

I said people who have supported LTTE or the Sri Lankan government. i.e - People who have either been part of their infrastructure or contributed financially.

And we already have such a structure in place. Now LTTE and the government should be added to it.

Why should it concern us either way? It's their war, and it's highly unlikely both sides will ever reconcile their ethnic differences.

Are we going to tell some dude to sod off just 'cause he worked in the SL pension office, but wants a better life for his family by immigrating to Canada? Same question applies to relatives of LTTE members.

[fakishan]

What they're saying is that the LTTE uses tactics that should be condemed. You can believe all you want to justify their actions. As civilized people Canada should not condone their actions. As such, LTTE should be listed as a terrorist organization.Anvah

Civilized people? Are you so naive as to believe in that? There is no such thing, never was. Hopefully there will be, but that's after people stop being hypocrites.

As a specie, we're still in the phase where our differetn cultures cannot get along.

How does it go again? If YOU can't find a solution to Palestine or the Tamils, stfu. People who know better than you are working on it. War and worse tactics have brought peace across countless regions one earth. Just because YOU don't need to war for your rights, dosen't mean you have the right to meddle in others' fights for their freedom.

Is that clear enough for you? What I'm saying is that from your high in the clouds under canadian freedoms & equality pedastal, you look at warring areas of the world and think they are idiots and savages. You don't know how lucky you are to be in Canada.

The tamils don't target canadians. Tamils don't target tourist areas in SriLanka either. Their conflict is strictly with the Sri Lankan goverment and have gone to great extent to avoid international casualties.

Whatever you think their tactics were in the past, look at what they are today.

I guess it's easier for you to not care, and just label everything harsh as bad and as something you must avoid.

Most importantly, your true chracter was revealed when you said that you didn't care for the reasons of the war, just that their tactics were unacceptable. That shows me that your are not a person capable of thinking and making difficult decisions, but rather much more like an automaton; keep it short and simple. All wars = bad people. Unlesss of course you think all wars are done humanely while the LTTE are nasty. I would enjoy tearing that idea down if you so claim it.

[konfusion666]

Most importantly, your true chracter was revealed when you said that you didn't care for the reasons of the war, just that their tactics were unacceptable. That shows me that your are not a person capable of thinking and making difficult decisions, but rather much more like an automaton; keep it short and simple. All wars = bad people. Unlesss of course you think all wars are done humanely while the LTTE are nasty. I would enjoy tearing that idea down if you so claim it.

Anvah revealed himself to be an Anti-Canadian Fascist when he said the following:


LTTE should be banned as a terrorist organization. People who support LTTE should be expelled from Canada if they are here as refugee's. If they are here as immigrants, they should also be expelled. If they are citizens, their past should be carefully looked at to ensure they did not lie on their application. If they did, they should be stripped and expelled.

and


I believe that evil should always be condemned. YES! I'm an absolutist when it comes to evil. Evil should never go unpunished.

Yes, a child-like intellect indeed. He's in good company with devious9191, though. ;)

[devious9191]

Most importantly, your true chracter was revealed when you said that you didn't care for the reasons of the war, just that their tactics were unacceptable. That shows me that your are not a person capable of thinking and making difficult decisions, but rather much more like an automaton; keep it short and simple. All wars = bad people. Unlesss of course you think all wars are done humanely while the LTTE are nasty. I would enjoy tearing that idea down if you so claim it.

This isn't about whether the conflict is justified in Sri Lanka or not at all. It's the responsibility of the Canadian government to keep terrorists out of this country, not to try and determine whether Canadians are potential suspects of particular terrorist groups, and only keep out those groups. The Tigers are a terrorist group, and should be treated as such in this country. It's not about Canada going in and solving problems in Sri Lanka, it's about calling a duck a duck, and treating it as such.

[devious9191]

Anvah revealed himself to be an Anti-Canadian Fascist when he said the following:




and



Yes, a child-like intellect indeed. He's in good company with devious9191, though. ;)

Maybe you could state how those statements make him a fascist, or maybe even just define the word for us, since you don't seem to be using it properly. ;)

[konfusion666]

Maybe you could state how those statements make him a fascist, or maybe even just define the word for us, since you don't seem to be using it properly. ;)

If you really don't know the definition of the word fascist, simply look in the mirror, Mr. D.

[devious9191]

If you really don't know the definition of the word fascist, simply look in the mirror, Mr. D.

O, I know what the word means. I was just hoping you could enlighten everyone else as to why Anvah seemed to be one, based on his comments.

Actually, I found a nice quote that describes what you are doing.


Today, very few groups proclaim themselves as fascist, and the term almost universally is used for groups for whom the speaker has little regard, often with minimal understanding of what the term actually means. The term "fascist" or "Nazi" is often ascribed to individuals or groups who are perceived to behave in an authoritarian manner; by silencing opposition, judging personal behavior, or otherwise attempting to concentrate power. More particularly, "Fascist" is sometimes used by members of the (Location near or direction toward the left side; i.e. the side to the north when a person or object faces east) Left to characterize some group or persons of the (An abstract idea of that which is due to a person or governmental body by law or tradition or nature) Right. This usage receded much following the (The decade from 1970 to 1979) 1970s, but has enjoyed a strong resurgence in connection with (Click link for more info and facts about Anti-globalization) Anti-globalization activism.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/f/fa/fascism.htm

[anvah]

Anvah revealed himself to be an Anti-Canadian Fascist when he said the following:



and



Yes, a child-like intellect indeed. He's in good company with devious9191, though. ;)

Little man, if that makes you happy, please go ahead. I don't care what you label me.

Re: Tamil Tigers.

I know quite a bit about their conflict. And quite a bit about the Israel / Palestine conflict, the India / Pakistan, the IRA / Britain, ETA / Spain, etc.

The thing is, I don't care to be involved with it. But more importantly, when these people come to Canada I don't want them to bring their garbage to this country.

Listen - I am proud to be a Canadian. I absolutely love this country and what it stands for. You and others like you (fakishan) are intellectual frauds. You speak of liberty, and freedom when you don't know what it means. You can read your books and say to yourself "I know nothing so I'm going to remain quiet." Well, you are more than entitled to do that. But I will not remain silent!

I care about this country. I care about the values of this country and my fellow Canadians. My values do not include recruiting children to suicide bomb others. My values do not include targeted killings and assasinations. YOU may think they're justified, you may support such things. You may even believe that you are morally justified in believing such things. But remember, when you come to the great country Canada, leave the garbage out.

It makes my blood boil to hear of people in Scarborough who can't say what they think because of the Tamil Tigers. It makes me angry when woman in Scarborough are forced to give up money to the tigers because otherwise they're branded as un-patriots. It positively riles me up to hear of journalists afraid to speak out in Toronto because of the Tigers.

You are entitled to your stupidity. But listen, don't bring it here. I don't want the Tigers here, nor do I want Hamas, or any of the other garbage terrorist groups. When you are in Canada, respect our Charter rights and obey by it.

I want Canada to throw them out because they have no respect for our values. Many people come here from Sri Lanka because they want a new life. But there are those few who come here thinking they can recruit and provide a source of funding. KICK THEM OUT!! There is no room in this country for them. If they want a new start, then start it. Too many want to continue their old battles here.

fakishan and konfusion666, please learn the meaning of English words. You seem to think when someone doesn't agree with you, they're fascist commie neo-cons. At first it was funny, now it's just stupid. Read what you type. Most of the things you two are saying make absolutely no sense. You persist in mis-understanding my, asim and devious's concerns and arguments. It almost seems to me that you lack the mental capacity due to some sort of fringe inculcation that happened when you were young.


Listen - I don't care what they're fighting for. (Pause so you can understand this.) When they come to Canada they should leave their garbage out. (Pause) If they haven't, they should be kicked out (pause).

I hope you go that,

Anvah

[anvah]

This isn't about whether the conflict is justified in Sri Lanka or not at all. It's the responsibility of the Canadian government to keep terrorists out of this country, not to try and determine whether Canadians are potential suspects of particular terrorist groups, and only keep out those groups. The Tigers are a terrorist group, and should be treated as such in this country. It's not about Canada going in and solving problems in Sri Lanka, it's about calling a duck a duck, and treating it as such.

Devious,

konfusion666 and fakishan just can't get our arguments. I don't know why.

konfusion666 and fakishan, let me provide an analogy (resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike : SIMILARITY b : comparison based on such resemblance).

1) Person A doesn't like seafood.
2) Person A does not buy seafood.
3) Person A doesn't care that some seafoods are sweet or sour.
4) Person K and Person F thats you konfusion666 and fakishan, tell person A, seafoods are tasty. See, this one is sweet. See, this one is sour. See, this one makes you stronger.
5) Person A says, I don't like seafood. I will not buy some.
6) Person K and Person F persist in talking about how different and varied seafood can be.
7) Person K and Person F start calling Person A a fascist for not likeing seafood.
8) Person K and Person F start saying how seafoods are nice and should be eaten.

9) Person K and Person F seem to be having trouble grasping that Person A doesn't like seafood. Period. Period. Period.

10) Person K and Person F persist in trying to tell Person A to eat seafood and be happy about eating it.

11) Person A is worried that if left alone with Person K and Person F, Person A'll be forcefed seafood.

12) Person A moves to be far away from Person K and Person F.

[Paksis]

If you really don't know the definition of the word fascist, simply look in the mirror, Mr. D.


Man your World view is severely limited. Get out and see the world, stop watching the CBC.






__________________________________________________ _______________
I won't engage in an intellectual debate with you as I can see you are quite unarmed.

Sarah Ferguson n. 1. A reason to put something other than the election on the front page. 2. A person who gains celebrity by spreading her legs for a prince and later declaring the experience less empowering than expected.

[that_staples_guy]

Devious,

konfusion666 and fakishan just can't get our arguments. I don't know why.

konfusion666 and fakishan, let me provide an analogy (resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike : SIMILARITY b : comparison based on such resemblance).

1) Person A doesn't like seafood.
2) Person A does not buy seafood.
3) Person A doesn't care that some seafoods are sweet or sour.
4) Person K and Person F thats you konfusion666 and fakishan, tell person A, seafoods are tasty. See, this one is sweet. See, this one is sour. See, this one makes you stronger.
5) Person A says, I don't like seafood. I will not buy some.
6) Person K and Person F persist in talking about how different and varied seafood can be.
7) Person K and Person F start calling Person A a fascist for not likeing seafood.
8) Person K and Person F start saying how seafoods are nice and should be eaten.

9) Person K and Person F seem to be having trouble grasping that Person A doesn't like seafood. Period. Period. Period.

10) Person K and Person F persist in trying to tell Person A to eat seafood and be happy about eating it.

11) Person A is worried that if left alone with Person K and Person F, Person A'll be forcefed seafood.

12) Person A moves to be far away from Person K and Person F.

Way too confusing for my brian, screw that.

[fakishan]

This is too funny, you simply stopped using your logic alltogether. No point in replying and poiting out your fallacies. Take some time for reflection and PM me if you want a serious discussion.

[that_staples_guy]

All in all, I'll say that I'm pro-tiger, at the same time I'd rather not have a conflict there in the first place.

http://www.sasnet.lu.se/bilder/eelamflag.gif

[guest10586]

Oh boy...this thread...here we go again...

[Elisa.woods]

Why does Harper let the ship in? He should sink them ASAP!

[toalan]

Why does Harper let the ship in? He should sink them ASAP!

Man you should be a doctor, no telling how many dead you could bring back to life, but probably you would only bring back the *********s.

[fakishan]

necro - 2005 thread

[nickinto]

Terrorists...

http://www.asiantribune.com/files/images/Berne%204.jpg
http://media.nowpublic.net/images//cb/8/cb82f85a60284f7678c5b3a1fc7e4b79.jpg
http://trendsupdates.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/female-tamil-tiger-cadres.jpg
http://liberal-debutante.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/tamils-on-the-gardener.jpeg

[gretzky99]

Terrorists...

http://www.asiantribune.com/files/images/Berne%204.jpg
http://media.nowpublic.net/images//cb/8/cb82f85a60284f7678c5b3a1fc7e4b79.jpg
http://trendsupdates.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/female-tamil-tiger-cadres.jpg
http://liberal-debutante.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/tamils-on-the-gardener.jpeg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Omar_Khadr_-_PD-Family-released.jpg/250px-Omar_Khadr_-_PD-Family-released.jpg
http://www.longwarjournal.org/images/osama-bin-laden-1998-thumb.jpg

[Beeg]

A very complicated situation.

[nickinto]

A very complicated situation.

Not really...Tamil Tigers = Terrorists </thread>