burning inferno claims 2 lives on 401 . [Archive]

spm24

Sep 28th, 2005, 09:12 AM

The morning rush in Toronto is always a challenge.

It�s a lot more than that on the 401 in the east end Wednesday.

It follows a staggering chain reaction accident on the highway at Warden that took place at around 12:30am.

It began when the driver of a Chevy Cobalt apparently lost control of his vehicle and swerved into the path of a tractor trailer.

The car became stuck under the wheels of the big rig, which began sliding along the guardrail, before both burst into flame.

The inferno burned so hot, it literally melted the truck. The driver of that vehicle managed to escape, but the 22-year-old man in the car and a passenger weren't as lucky. Both are believed to have died on impact. Names of the victims haven't been released.

Fighting the fire was made even more difficult because the truck was carrying a huge load of paper products, which fed the flames.

By the time crews extinguished the blaze, the pattern had been set for morning commuter chaos.

Both the express and transfer lanes of the westbound 401 are closed past McCowan to the 404, and police believe most of the affected stretch of roadway will remain shut down through the bulk of the morning rush.

The back-up has already caused other routes to jam up as motorists look for alternate ways to get to work.

Backhoes have been brought in to remove the debris, but it�s slow going, a phrase commuters taking the highway will be well familiar with by the time their early Wednesday drive in is over.

September 28, 2005
edit : link provided.
http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20050928-002/page.asp

ylikone

Sep 28th, 2005, 09:21 AM

Stupid people driving way to fast (common for the 401). Dumbasses deserve what they get. It just REALLY SUCKS when they imperil the lives of others.

Shaner

Sep 28th, 2005, 09:26 AM

Stupid people driving way to fast (common for the 401). Dumbasses deserve what they get. It just REALLY SUCKS when they imperil the lives of others.

That's a little harsh. Doing 130 on the 401 might be too fast, but that alone won't kill someone. Whether you're doing 100 or 130, if you run into a truck that bursts into flame, you're going to die.

Stupid, careless drivers are to blame, but people who drive fast aren't entirely to blame. Besides, this article doesn't say anything about driving too fast or drving carelessly.

fireguy9

Sep 28th, 2005, 09:32 AM

Its not the speed that kills,,, its the idiotic driving skill of many that does,,,, not respecting the left lane!!! Not using mirrors etc. Being in emerg service,, we see it all. People die at 50 km/h too.

Europe has the autobahn,, and things work well,,, the thing is people are educated better on driving and those road rules of the left lane, construction zone slow downs are strictly enforced.

We have one of the slowest highway speeds around now!

ylikone

Sep 28th, 2005, 09:35 AM

That's a little harsh. Doing 130 on the 401 might be too fast, but that alone won't kill someone. Whether you're doing 100 or 130, if you run into a truck that bursts into flame, you're going to die.

Stupid, careless drivers are to blame, but people who drive fast aren't entirely to blame. Besides, this article doesn't say anything about driving too fast or drving carelessly.

I don't think it's harsh. Going over 100 on the 401 automatically means you have no control over your car if someone suddenly brakes or something. Speed kills. Ask any cop. Very few, if any, people on the road are professional drivers. You might be able to handle high speed driving, but that old guy in front of you can't. Unfortunately, you are sharing the road with a bunch of bad drivers. You realize that if everybody went the speed limit, the number of deaths would be greatly reduced. But, yes, I do realize that people will always drive a bit faster than the posted speed limit.

ylikone

Sep 28th, 2005, 09:41 AM

People die at 50 km/h too.

Hardly! Unless they're hit by a guy doing 120!

The autobahn has less accidents in general, probably because the people driving it are fairly competent. Gramma and gramps probably don't dare to go out on the autobahn too much. BUT, when accidents do happen, they are almost always FATAL on the autobahn.

Speed does kill... no matter what you people think. Argue if you like, physics will win every time.

fireguy9

Sep 28th, 2005, 09:45 AM

I don't think it's harsh. Going over 100 on the 401 automatically means you have no control over your car if someone suddenly brakes or something. Speed kills. Ask any cop. Very few, if any, people on the road are professional drivers. You might be able to handle high speed driving, but that old guy in front of you can't. Unfortunately, you are sharing the road with a bunch of bad drivers. You realize that if everybody went the speed limit, the number of deaths would be greatly reduced. But, yes, I do realize that people will always drive a bit faster than the posted speed limit.

Bit harsh ya!!!! maybe the guy was cut off by a idiot driver. What if that was a family member or friend of yours?

Speed kills? Not always. Cops say that or that Opp guy to instill the message to slow people down,,,,,,, Bunch of crap. Its those other drivers around you doing the improper lane changes and tailgating etc. Speed alone is not the culprit at all. Enforce the rules and increase the speed limits in certain areas or time periods.

Driving To Windsor on 401 many times is not congested,,, should be a 120 zone. Get people moving. The U.S and Europe do it all over where the speed limit on the highway changes

fireguy9

Sep 28th, 2005, 09:49 AM

Hardly! Unless they're hit by a guy doing 120!

The autobahn has less accidents in general, probably because the people driving it are fairly competent. Gramma and gramps probably don't dare to go out on the autobahn too much. BUT, when accidents do happen, they are almost always FATAL on the autobahn.

Speed does kill... no matter what you people think. Argue if you like, physics will win every time.

You would be amazed buddy! Do you respond to emerg calls? I see many people walk away from some incredible high speed wrecks.

For your knowledge they are not always fatal there either. You can drive 160km/h there then all of sudden sign states a reduction in speed and everyone does it. There they follow rules or pay big price fines etc. That does not happen here.

ylikone

Sep 28th, 2005, 09:54 AM

Cops say that or that Opp guy to instill the message to slow people down,,,,,,, Bunch of crap. Its those other drivers around you doing the improper lane changes and tailgating etc.

So, because there are other timid drivers on the road, which you MUST share the road with, you will continue to blame them because you want to go fast? If you were going the speed limit, someone cutting you off is less likely to cause an accident. It's physics 101. Speed does kill. Cops aren't spewing a bunch of crap. Peoples insistence on driving over the speed limit is what kills. Think about how you are putting your family and friends (passengers) at unnessary risk the next time you are going 140 and the guy in front of you cuts you off!

READ MY POSTS, YOU ARE SHARING THE ROAD WITH PEOPLE WHO AREN'T GOOD DRIVERS! SLOW DOWN!

fireguy9

Sep 28th, 2005, 10:09 AM

So, because there are other timid drivers on the road, which you MUST share the road with, you will continue to blame them because you want to go fast? If you were going the speed limit, someone cutting you off is less likely to cause an accident. It's physics 101. Speed does kill. Cops aren't spewing a bunch of crap. Peoples insistence on driving over the speed limit is what kills. Think about how you are putting your family and friends (passengers) at unnessary risk the next time you are going 140 and the guy in front of you cuts you off!

READ MY POSTS, YOU ARE SHARING THE ROAD WITH PEOPLE WHO AREN'T GOOD DRIVERS! SLOW DOWN!

Did I say lets go 140? I said the speed is not the factor. No one is going to slow down,,,, people want to get to point b. Enforcing other rules like I said will help. Look at that left lane, it is full of cars all the time. It is for passing and the rule,,, slower cars stay to the right. Its obvious you cannot drive fast in traffic, but without the high traffic why shouldn't the speed limit be 120-125? U.S interstates are up to the 70-75mph. You create a safety zone around your car and drive to the conditions.

Physics is one thing but reality is another and that is why I said, People walk away from many highspeed crashes and some dont as well some dont make it in low speed crashes either.

You lose control at any speed, things happen,,, many factors, (fire, size of vehicle colliding with, location of impact etc) A bump to the head or chest will kill you too!

konfusion666

Sep 28th, 2005, 10:13 AM

Going over 100 on the 401 automatically means you have no control over your car if someone suddenly brakes or something.

Is the difference between 100 and (100 + 1) really that much?

Oh no, I'm driving at 110! My brakes don't work anymore!

ylikone

Sep 28th, 2005, 10:16 AM

Sorry you people just don't get it.

fireguy9

Sep 28th, 2005, 10:24 AM

IF you are a timid driver and you do not even drive the speed limit, Get the heck off the highway!!!!!!!!! It is not for you,, or you drive 100, Get the heck in the right lane and stay there.

ylikone

Sep 28th, 2005, 10:25 AM

Get the heck off the highway!!!!!!!!!

Ha, my point proven.

felixdd

Sep 28th, 2005, 11:28 AM

Actually I agree with fireguy9 here. If you plan on cruising -- at any speeds, stay in the curb lane. The passing lane is strictly for passing. Too many people cruise on the curb lane, blocking anyone else from using it.

And no, speed doesn't kill -- difference in speed does. Ylikone, you keep saying if everyone goes 100, then it's safe. True enough, but every time I hit the 401, I encounter people insist on cutting into your lane while doing 80. Has it ever occurred to you that this is what happened to the Cobalt driver? And despite what you might think...a difference of "only" 20 km/h, when both vehicles are giong at high speed, is quite deadly.

If everyone goes at one speed, whether it be 100 or 120, the highway will be safer for all.

fireguy9

Sep 28th, 2005, 11:28 AM

Ha, my point proven.

partially proven,, execept for the speed part!

konfusion666

Sep 28th, 2005, 11:31 AM

Sorry you people just don't get it.

It's you who doesn't get it. Clearly, you're an unlicensed driver spouting off... or just started driving yesterday, and have yet to tackle a roadway wider than your parent's driveway. :D

felixdd

Sep 28th, 2005, 11:32 AM

Funny the OP left out the police officer's comments on how it happened:

"Apparently here, the car driver approached the transfer lanes, probably wanted to stay in the collectors last minute, started to make the lane change, saw the truck, over-corrected, lost control, and this is what occurred after," Woolley estimated, saying it's a mistake drivers often make.

Simple case of (a) not enough diligence and possibly (b) not checking blindspot -- which is something I see way too often.

ylikone

Sep 28th, 2005, 11:37 AM

It's you who doesn't get it. Clearly, you're an unlicensed driver spouting off... or just started driving yesterday, and have yet to tackle a roadway wider than your parent's driveway. :D

Sorry, I've been a car driver for 19 years. NEVER had a ticket... speeding, parking or otherwise. NEVER been involved in as much as a fender bender. I consider myself a safe and mature driver. (although, I do occasionally speed a bit on the 401, I try to keep myself in check)

Seeing all the teens driving like maniacs is what really bugs me... and leads me to post comments here. Bad drivers are a pet peave of mine. And I considers fast drivers to be just as guilty of being "bad" as the people who don't check blind spots, cut people off, etc...

konfusion666

Sep 28th, 2005, 11:43 AM

Sorry, I've been a car driver for 19 years. NEVER had a ticket... speeding, parking or otherwise. NEVER been involved in as much as a fender bender. I consider myself a safe and mature driver. (although, I do occasionally speed a bit on the 401, I try to keep myself in check)

Seeing all the teens driving like maniacs is what really bugs me... and leads me to post comments here. Bad drivers are a pet peave of mine. And I considers fast drivers to be just as guilty of being "bad" as the people who don't check blind spots, cut people off, etc...

Fair enough. Your statement about "going above 100 is automatically wrong" is incorrect in real-world driving though -- even if legally correct(*). If everyone around you is doing 120, then driving at 100 is probably more dangerous.

* although this is debatable, since various people have reported that on their G2 government road test, they've been instructed by the Road Tester to "match speed with traffic" even if the traffic is going faster than 100.

mrmoe

Sep 28th, 2005, 11:55 AM

Sorry, I've been a car driver for 19 years. NEVER had a ticket... speeding, parking or otherwise. NEVER been involved in as much as a fender bender. I consider myself a safe and mature driver. (although, I do occasionally speed a bit on the 401, I try to keep myself in check)

Seeing all the teens driving like maniacs is what really bugs me... and leads me to post comments here. Bad drivers are a pet peave of mine. And I considers fast drivers to be just as guilty of being "bad" as the people who don't check blind spots, cut people off, etc...

I spent 9 years on the 400 series / qew highways, and the one thing that kills is "not being alert".

you can do 140, but be aware of your surroundings.

If you travel at 80Km/hr you can still get pinned under a transport truck.

Sounds like to me he ( the driver ) made a bad desision or didnt see what was about to happen around him. Always leave a way out.

ichpen

Sep 28th, 2005, 01:16 PM

Agree with most comments. Yes in a collision situation speed does kill more often than not but it is not the sole cause of fatalities. The point is that alertness and confidence will play a much larger role in avoiding a collision.

Coming from Europe where lane discipline and etiquette is drummed into you religiously and at a young age it is evident that Ontario's highways are predominantly a free for all (Quebec is miles ahead here but not quite on par). Alertness and peripheral awareness is the single most important factor... More so than speed I would suggest.

Lane discipline is not enforced here by police (it is in the UK). In fact more often than not I witness cops undertaking cars in the passing lane without care or regard.

Road design is pretty backward here also and even throws me off on occasion.

x86asm

Sep 28th, 2005, 01:27 PM

Sorry, I've been a car driver for 19 years. NEVER had a ticket... speeding, parking or otherwise. NEVER been involved in as much as a fender bender. I consider myself a safe and mature driver. (although, I do occasionally speed a bit on the 401, I try to keep myself in check)

Seeing all the teens driving like maniacs is what really bugs me... and leads me to post comments here. Bad drivers are a pet peave of mine. And I considers fast drivers to be just as guilty of being "bad" as the people who don't check blind spots, cut people off, etc...

woah woah slow down, Im a teen driver and I rarely go over 100 on the freeway. I've seen crazy stuff on the freeway. Including a guy who almost hit a guard post at like 140km/h and swerving around traffic (he tried to go on one route but at the last minute cut in front of someone else). I also saw a guy driving on the freeway with NON WORKING BRAKE LIGHTS. That guy was not a teen. I mean thats just asking for trouble.

Plus people always speed on freeway, I see it all the time it is very common. When I drive there I feel like I'm the only one going at the speed limit cause everyone is passing me ,and then after a few seconds they get further and further.

munch

Sep 28th, 2005, 01:32 PM

there's no doubt that speed often plays a factor in collisions, but i think many accidents can be avoided if there was an emphasis on defensive driving; being aware of your surroundings, staying alert of other people's driving, etc. even just simple things like checking your blindspots and using your signals goes a long way but so many ppl fail to do so.

bad drivers irk me too, and that includes speeders. i admit i speed also but i never understood why some ppl felt the need to go 140 weaving in and out of traffic when there's obviously some congestion.

and TOO MANY ppl do not fully comprehend the purpose of the left lane...and it doesn't make it any better when ppl specifically high beam you for the sole purpose to warn you to change lanes and you hit the brakes instead...it doesn't help you, and it doesn't help the ppl behind you. do us all a favour...if there's a car approaching you, move out of the god damn way and then switch back if you really want to!

Wonton Soup

Sep 28th, 2005, 02:09 PM

Differences in speed kills. It doesn't matter if your going fast or not.

A car going 100 and being rear-ended by another car going 120 is more dangerous than a car going 130 and being rear-ended by another going 135, all other things being equal.

Force = Mass X Acceleration.

Physics 101 for those who think driving slower means your a safer driver. Stay with the flow of traffic. If you insist on going 100, then stay in the far right lane. The people who insist on going the speed limit on the passing lane and even in the middle lane are just agrevating (sp?) others to high beam them or do dangerous lane changes.

Btw, I do 120-130 when the speed limit is 100.

biosh

Sep 28th, 2005, 02:45 PM

Too bad it wasn't a non-burning inferno...

mrmoe

Sep 28th, 2005, 02:46 PM

woah woah slow down, Im a teen driver and I rarely go over 100 on the freeway. I've seen crazy stuff on the freeway. Including a guy who almost hit a guard post at like 140km/h and swerving around traffic (he tried to go on one route but at the last minute cut in front of someone else). I also saw a guy driving on the freeway with NON WORKING BRAKE LIGHTS. That guy was not a teen. I mean thats just asking for trouble.

Plus people always speed on freeway, I see it all the time it is very common. When I drive there I feel like I'm the only one going at the speed limit cause everyone is passing me ,and then after a few seconds they get further and further.

:arrowu: flamebait

you my friend, need to keep up to traffic or stay on roads that do not exceed 60Km/hr,or you may be rear-ended or shot.

that is why there are so many accidents.

ShadowVlican

Sep 28th, 2005, 04:21 PM

konfusion666

Sep 28th, 2005, 04:29 PM

and it doesn't make it any better when ppl specifically high beam you for the sole purpose to warn you to change lanes and you hit the brakes instead...

lots of idiots out there who keep their High Beams on all the time... even in the middle and right lanes. basically, once it gets "dark" their high beams come on and stay on. and this isn't in the countryside or anything, its just in normal city driving...

belfour

Sep 28th, 2005, 04:36 PM

Speed doesn't kill.. Its the Sudden Stop That Does ;)

[H]ackerK

Sep 28th, 2005, 04:58 PM

not sure if this is just me (and maybe a few of my friends who had licences for a long time. i.e. Only G licenses) I notice the drivers today are worst than years ago.

I don't mind those who can drive aggressivly *with* skills. But no-a-days I see people (interstingly, mostly are younger girls) who drive aggressivly but clearly lack of skills or consideration of other drivers. For example, if you coming out from a side street, if you want to cut in front of me when I am approching, I don't mind that too much as long as you step on the gas w/o me stepping on the breaks to avoid you.. (and which most of the time, when I check my rear mirror, 80% of time, there are no cars behind me, and why can't they wait for me to pass by first??)

Anyways, IMHO the G1-G2-G licenses seems to be a flaw. Some people are just no good to be on the road....

munch

Sep 28th, 2005, 05:17 PM

just wondering if everyone would care to share at what speed they normally go on the highway...

for me it's usually 120...

fireguy9

Sep 28th, 2005, 05:25 PM

varies with time of day and traffic, but usually from 110-130

kilarney

Sep 28th, 2005, 05:26 PM

just wondering if everyone would care to share at what speed they normally go on the highway...

for me it's usually 120...

My pops go 105 on the 400 series highways since our car is quite old and 95 on Highway 7 (80 clicks per hour highway)

felixdd

Sep 28th, 2005, 06:55 PM

100-120, depending on time of day and gas prices :razz:

ShadowVlican

Sep 28th, 2005, 07:03 PM

ackerK']I don't mind those who can drive aggressivly *with* skills. But no-a-days I see people (interstingly, mostly are younger girls) who drive aggressivly but clearly lack of skills or consideration of other drivers. For example, if you coming out from a side street, if you want to cut in front of me when I am approching, I don't mind that too much as long as you step on the gas w/o me stepping on the breaks to avoid you.. (and which most of the time, when I check my rear mirror, 80% of time, there are no cars behind me, and why can't they wait for me to pass by first??)
i agree

also the young girls part too, wonder why their insurance is still so damn low compared to males

110-130 highway

x86asm

Sep 28th, 2005, 07:05 PM

:arrowu: flamebait

you my friend, need to keep up to traffic or stay on roads that do not exceed 60Km/hr,or you may be rear-ended or shot.

that is why there are so many accidents.

not flamebait, and no I will not stay off the freeway. Me going at 100 is not what causes so many accidents. Since barely anyone goes at the 100 mark utilizing your logic there should be no accidents. Its not my fault some people cannot follow the rules of the road. In my relatively short time behind the wheel, I've seen a lot of things that I would have prefered not to see...

fireguy9

Sep 28th, 2005, 07:55 PM

not flamebait, and no I will not stay off the freeway. Me going at 100 is not what causes so many accidents. Since barely anyone goes at the 100 mark utilizing your logic there should be no accidents. Its not my fault some people cannot follow the rules of the road. In my relatively short time behind the wheel, I've seen a lot of things that I would have prefered not to see...

If you do 100, stay the hell to the right!!!

curtis

Sep 29th, 2005, 10:45 AM

It seems that this year in particular, the drivers have gotten significantly worse that all previous years. Every week I get woken up in the morning to a huge smash within a kilometer of my house. Before this year, I think there was maybe one in a good 5 years. There must have been 3 or 4 in the last month!

ackerK']not sure if this is just me (and maybe a few of my friends who had licences for a long time. i.e. Only G licenses) I notice the drivers today are worst than years ago.

I don't mind those who can drive aggressivly *with* skills. But no-a-days I see people (interstingly, mostly are younger girls) who drive aggressivly but clearly lack of skills or consideration of other drivers. For example, if you coming out from a side street, if you want to cut in front of me when I am approching, I don't mind that too much as long as you step on the gas w/o me stepping on the breaks to avoid you.. (and which most of the time, when I check my rear mirror, 80% of time, there are no cars behind me, and why can't they wait for me to pass by first??)

Anyways, IMHO the G1-G2-G licenses seems to be a flaw. Some people are just no good to be on the road....

trixR4kids

Sep 29th, 2005, 11:01 AM

dam thats so close to where i live

[H]ackerK

Sep 29th, 2005, 11:17 AM