[Rant]Infuriated with Paypal!![/Rant]

[Invincible]

So here's how the story goes:

> I bid on an item on ebay. (~ 2k value)
> I am outbid.
> Winner backs out, leaving me the option to go ahead.
> I do so.
> Seller claims he explicitly specified buyer had to have confirmed paypal address. (There was no mention of it in the auction, unless I'm blind). I do not have a confirmed paypal address as I just moved.
> Seller says he won't ship to me unless I have confirmed address.
> I call paypal, Rep tells me they don't confirm canadian addresses and the seller would still be protected under the seller protection act thing and seller could call to confirm.
> Seller calls and Rep tells him I have unconfirmed address therefore he will not be covered.
> He offers to let me back out of the deal, refund me the money.
> I say ok.
> I check my paypal account and he did refund me the correct amount but paypal's stupid built in conversion fees mean I'm out $120.
> I call paypal, Rep talks to his supervisor "There's nothing we can do".

Just like that, bye bye $120. I knew I hated paypal, now the reason why is not only fresh in my head, but 20x more obvious.

[B40]

Did he send you the money back or use the refund button?

[RVDTHPS]

Yeah, I hate the paypal too

[Shaner]

You know what, I am so sick of people complaining about Paypal.
The first 1.5 million times I heard this I felt sorry for the person, now I've just grown annoyed with people who get ripped off by Paypal.

You have been warned!
Unless you've been living under a rock, you should know that more people than not have problems with Paypal.

There has been thousands of anti-paypal threads on RFD alone. I personally have made probably hundreds of anti-paypal comments on RFD. I and many other RFD members have linked to paypalsucks.com and other similar sites.

You were warned, you ignored the warnings and you got what was coming to you.

Every time paypal gets bashed on RFD, a few people jump out and say things like "I've never had a problem so i'll keep using Paypal." Then a short time later they complain about how they got ripped off.

You were warned, they were warned, and everyone else who pays any attention to the internet has been warned. Paypal is a scam and everyone knows it. Anyone who continues to use Paypal for anything more than like $25 is just stupid and is asking to get ripped off eventually.

Sorry that you are the subject of my rant, it really is nothing personal, but there's been so many warnings about Paypal being a scam, yet people ignore it because it hadn't happened to them.

[B40]

You know what, I am so sick of people complaining about Paypal.
The first 1.5 million times I heard this I felt sorry for the person, now I've just grown annoyed with people who get ripped off by Paypal.

You have been warned!
Unless you've been living under a rock, you should know that more people than not have problems with Paypal.

There has been thousands of anti-paypal threads on RFD alone. I personally have made probably hundreds of anti-paypal comments on RFD. I and many other RFD members have linked to paypalsucks.com and other similar sites.

You were warned, you ignored the warnings and you got what was coming to you.

Every time paypal gets bashed on RFD, a few people jump out and say things like "I've never had a problem so i'll keep using Paypal." Then a short time later they complain about how they got ripped off.

You were warned, they were warned, and everyone else who pays any attention to the internet has been warned. Paypal is a scam and everyone knows it. Anyone who continues to use Paypal for anything more than like $25 is just stupid and is asking to get ripped off eventually.

Sorry that you are the subject of my rant, it really is nothing personal, but there's been so many warnings about Paypal being a scam, yet people ignore it because it hadn't happened to them.


Paypal is not a scam. They are a legit company owned by ebay.

The OP did not even get his account closed, he just lost money on exchange rates. I guess credit cards are a scam too because they give a really bad exchange rate?

And when your Paypal account does get closed, they send you the money after 6 months.

[Shaner]

Paypal is not a scam. They are a legit company owned by ebay.

The OP did not even get his account closed, he just lost money on exchange rates. I guess credit cards are a scam too because they give a really bad exchange rate?

And when your Paypal account does get closed, they send you the money after 6 months.

Paypal is just short of a scam.
Your credit card company won't take your money and refuse to give it back for 6 months or longer. And I hope you don't put much faith in that 6 month limit. They may give your money back after 6 months, or they may refuse to give it back and may keep it.
Where did I say anything about Paypal closing his account?
That's just one of the ways Paypal screws online consumers, there are other ways.

You want to defend Paypal, fine, but I hope you don't send or receive any large amounts of money, or you'll regret it one day.

[B40]

Paypal is just short of a scam.
Your credit card company won't take your money and refuse to give it back for 6 months or longer. And I hope you don't put much faith in that 6 month limit. They may give your money back after 6 months, or they may refuse to give it back and may keep it.
Where did I say anything about Paypal closing his account?
That's just one of the ways Paypal screws online consumers, there are other ways.

You want to defend Paypal, fine, but I hope you don't send or receive any large amounts of money, or you'll regret it one day.

If you break their TOS, they close your account...that doesn't mean it's a scam.

I agree the fees are high...but that doesn't make Paypal a scam...

[Kasakato]

That's why you only use PayPal for smaller things like under $200. Anything over and I will use another way.

[CheapScotsman]

If you are out $120 on exchange rates, that was a pretty big base amount you were dealing with ....

if you paid by credit card, just deny the charges ... or get the seller to ante up the difference as he forced you to cancel the deal (the unconfirmed paypal thing)

[spike-spiegel]

But without using PayPal, a lot of sellers and buyers won't sell or bid to you.

[Shaner]

If you break their TOS, they close your account...that doesn't mean it's a scam.

I agree the fees are high...but that doesn't make Paypal a scam...

Search for the thread I started about Paypal.
I did absolutely nothing to break their TOS.

I sold about $3,000 worth of Leafs tickets.
Paypal froze my account and demanded to know what I was selling. They shouldn't even have the right to ask that, but I told them anyway.
They then demanded a receipt to show that the tickets I was selling weren't stolen. I again provided that information.
They then demanded tracking numbers to show the tickets were delivered. I couldn't provide that information as the tickets weren't sent with a tracking number. If they got lost, it wouldn't have mattered, I could have replaced them easily free of charge. Paypal wouldn't bite and refused to give me my money.
I even had some of the buyers e-mail Paypal to say that they received their Leafs tickets. That wasn't good enough, paypal demanded a tracking number.

They also told me that it would take 6 months to complete their investigation and unless I could provide tracking numbers, there was a good chance they wouldn't return my money to me.

Explain how I broke their TOS? Explain what I did wrong?
My credit card company would never do anything of the sort.

Paypal is a scam, plain and simple.
If you say otherwise, well then you deserve to get ripped off by them.

[nfnx]

the currency conversion is the biggest scam of all

[RVDTHPS]

^^

[b0rk]

So here's how the story goes:

> I bid on an item on ebay. (~ 2k value)
> I am outbid.
> Winner backs out, leaving me the option to go ahead.
> I do so.
> Seller claims he explicitly specified buyer had to have confirmed paypal address. (There was no mention of it in the auction, unless I'm blind). I do not have a confirmed paypal address as I just moved.
> Seller says he won't ship to me unless I have confirmed address.
> I call paypal, Rep tells me they don't confirm canadian addresses and the seller would still be protected under the seller protection act thing and seller could call to confirm.
> Seller calls and Rep tells him I have unconfirmed address therefore he will not be covered.
> He offers to let me back out of the deal, refund me the money.
> I say ok.
> I check my paypal account and he did refund me the correct amount but paypal's stupid built in conversion fees mean I'm out $120.
> I call paypal, Rep talks to his supervisor "There's nothing we can do".

Just like that, bye bye $120. I knew I hated paypal, now the reason why is not only fresh in my head, but 20x more obvious.


Dude, what did you buy? $120 conversion fee!?!?

[st7860]

www.paypalsucks.com

[B40]

Search for the thread I started about Paypal.
I did absolutely nothing to break their TOS.

I sold about $3,000 worth of Leafs tickets.
Paypal froze my account and demanded to know what I was selling. They shouldn't even have the right to ask that, but I told them anyway.
They then demanded a receipt to show that the tickets I was selling weren't stolen. I again provided that information.
They then demanded tracking numbers to show the tickets were delivered. I couldn't provide that information as the tickets weren't sent with a tracking number. If they got lost, it wouldn't have mattered, I could have replaced them easily free of charge. Paypal wouldn't bite and refused to give me my money.
I even had some of the buyers e-mail Paypal to say that they received their Leafs tickets. That wasn't good enough, paypal demanded a tracking number.

They also told me that it would take 6 months to complete their investigation and unless I could provide tracking numbers, there was a good chance they wouldn't return my money to me.

Explain how I broke their TOS? Explain what I did wrong?
My credit card company would never do anything of the sort.

Paypal is a scam, plain and simple.
If you say otherwise, well then you deserve to get ripped off by them.

That's the one bad thing about paypal...what happened is someone probably complained about not receiving the tickets...sorry to hear that happened to you

[st7860]

Paypal is a scam, plain and simple.
If you say otherwise, well then you deserve to get ripped off by them.

exactly. so they froze $3,000 for some tickets you sold. they will probably hold on to that money for a while to get the interest, and possibly release your account after 180 days

[b0rk]

Search for the thread I started about Paypal.
I did absolutely nothing to break their TOS.

I sold about $3,000 worth of Leafs tickets.
Paypal froze my account and demanded to know what I was selling. They shouldn't even have the right to ask that, but I told them anyway.
They then demanded a receipt to show that the tickets I was selling weren't stolen. I again provided that information.
They then demanded tracking numbers to show the tickets were delivered. I couldn't provide that information as the tickets weren't sent with a tracking number. If they got lost, it wouldn't have mattered, I could have replaced them easily free of charge. Paypal wouldn't bite and refused to give me my money.
I even had some of the buyers e-mail Paypal to say that they received their Leafs tickets. That wasn't good enough, paypal demanded a tracking number.

They also told me that it would take 6 months to complete their investigation and unless I could provide tracking numbers, there was a good chance they wouldn't return my money to me.

Explain how I broke their TOS? Explain what I did wrong?
My credit card company would never do anything of the sort.

Paypal is a scam, plain and simple.
If you say otherwise, well then you deserve to get ripped off by them.

I think anything over $1000 must have tracking number.

[gilboman]

this has nothing to do with paypal. the guy lost money on exchange rate (with cdn rising so much these past few days too).

i hate it when people do not know anything and blame paypal, regardless of paypal or not, this would've happened.

say you use credit card to buy direct, you get refund few days later but exchange rate has changed. you are still out of the money.

you pay cash for it, and at time of transaction the exchange rate was xx.xx. you return it few days later, exchange rate has changed and the amount you get back has changed too, even if its the same amount of US dollar, the exchange rate has changed so in cdn dollars, you still get shorted.

if you want to complain, complain about why we have different currencies in the world. ;)

[st7860]

this has nothing to do with paypal. .

it has everything to do with paypal. they do not charge the precise exchange rate the bank will charge. paypal profits on the spread.

[B40]

it has everything to do with paypal. they do not charge the precise exchange rate the bank will charge. paypal profits on the spread.

haha tell me a bank that charges market rates!

I guess all credit cards are scams too right?

[gilboman]

it has everything to do with paypal. they do not charge the precise exchange rate the bank will charge. paypal profits on the spread.

:lol: :lol: banks do not charge market rates, credit cards do not charge market rates. so why should paypal? :lol: :lol:

they all make some money on the spread. paypal is good already, it lets you choose whether you want to be charged in cdn dollars (thus using their exchange rate) or charged in US dollars (thus, using your credit card's rate)

[Siefer999]

I think anything over $1000 must have tracking number.
i dont think it was 3k in one pop... prob tickets in pairs


PayPal can confirm Canadian addresses. Mine's confirmed.
mines confirmed too but it doesnt show confirmed to the US seller when they look at my acct.

[ud666]

My paypal address is confirmed and my credit card is registered in Canada.

Try a different card.

[obernewtyn]

i notice ealier today, my pay pal was finally confirm after 2 years. Even when i had my bank and credit card long ago, they couldnt confirm it until now. Alot of U.S. sellers don't mind if its not confirm if you have good feedback. They usually state it on their auction ship only to confirm address and I would just avoid buying from them.

I agree paypal find all the cheapest way to earn money like currecy exchange, recieving money on business account. Paypal is a business and I understand they want to make as much profit possible. Like who wouldn't?

I haven't been screwed over by pal pay yet, however i'm not suprize if i do now since I've been reading alot of bad experience from others.

[hyperion]

Never used PayPal and never will.

[gaurav_fhs]

Any alternatives? I've used money orders, but i lose 5 bucks that way.

[Siefer999]

paypal is good for under $75 transactions. not worth busting out a MO for a $25 item, waiting for it to get the the other party and waiting for him to cash it.

other than that,i try to avoid it as much as possibel

[st7860]

you can have a verified paypal CANADIAN account by using a visa or mastercard gift card. the key thing is you need to verifiy your home phone number.

[Invincible]

This is what I found for you if you want to take it up with the seller though:

So if the dude was eligible, he HAD to ship it to you, especially if he didn't mention it in his listing. You could take it up with him if you really wanted.

I had found that too, and sent it to him yet he insisted that he wasn't eligible.


this has nothing to do with paypal. the guy lost money on exchange rate (with cdn rising so much these past few days too).

Well paypal includes a 2.5% exchage rate fee into their exchange. I realize our dollar has been getting stronger as of late, and would have been able to live with those differences, but the extra 2.5% really just kills.

The paypal rep asked me how much I was out. I said $120. He said "oh, well that's beyond anything I can do for you - let me go talk to my supervisor" I wonder if I had said like $70 or something if he would have been able to do something for me?

And I'm curious, would I really be able to deny the charges on my credit card? I've never attempted anything like that before.

I guess I have been 'living under a rock'. That rock has been here @ RFD. All of my trades / sales have involved other means of payment other than paypal. I primarily use EMT, but was not about to EMT some guy for that sum of money without any references. That and his auction specified paypal only which someone had brought up already.

I guess this was just a really hard lesson to learn. If paypal is to be used at all, keep it small. :( But seriously, what other method would people have tried to use in this case? (Assuming the seller would accept other means of payment)

[gilboman]

I had found that too, and sent it to him yet he insisted that he wasn't eligible.



Well paypal includes a 2.5% exchage rate fee into their exchange. I realize our dollar has been getting stronger as of late, and would have been able to live with those differences, but the extra 2.5% really just kills.

The paypal rep asked me how much I was out. I said $120. He said "oh, well that's beyond anything I can do for you - let me go talk to my supervisor" I wonder if I had said like $70 or something if he would have been able to do something for me?

And I'm curious, would I really be able to deny the charges on my credit card? I've never attempted anything like that before.

I guess I have been 'living under a rock'. That rock has been here @ RFD. All of my trades / sales have involved other means of payment other than paypal. I primarily use EMT, but was not about to EMT some guy for that sum of money without any references. That and his auction specified paypal only which someone had brought up already.

I guess this was just a really hard lesson to learn. If paypal is to be used at all, keep it small. :( But seriously, what other method would people have tried to use in this case? (Assuming the seller would accept other means of payment)

fyi most credit cards charge 2.5% too (some even bit more) and banks charge for it too, but around 2% dependent on the bank.

[alexle]

Most banks and post offices charge you a higher conversion rate when you want to convert CDN dollars to USD dollars and vise versa. Paypal is no different. I bought a MO from Canada Post for $350.00USD and had to pay $425CDN. When I had to reverse the payment, I cashed in this $350 USD MO back and got only $395CDN. So I lost $30.

In the end, you lose money buying in USD and you lose money selling in USD...or something like that.

[grant]

Every time paypal gets bashed on RFD, a few people jump out and say things like "I've never had a problem so i'll keep using Paypal." Then a short time later they complain about how they got ripped off.

I would love to see you provide even one example (or more!) of this happening.