Hybrid cars are now worth the extra money!

[Evil Techie]

http://autos.canada.com/news/vancouver_province_story.html?id=1b98616d-b22e-4092-a3da-637364d97d46


Hybrids now worth the extra money
Sure hybrids cost more, but with incentives, they're actually cheaper

Bob McHugh
The Province

Wednesday, June 07, 2006


Drivers thinking about switching to a more environmentally friendly vehicle, but wary of higher hybrid price tags, may be pleasantly surprised.

What a difference a year makes!

Last year, only one hybrid vehicle appeared to be a cost-effective purchase, based on a BCAA five-year ownership cost analysis.

This year only one of the hybrid vehicles evaluated proved to be a money-loser.

Why the quick turnaround?

If you guessed the price of gasoline -- duh -- you're correct, but there's more.

The showroom purchase price difference between a new hybrid and its gasoline counterpart also appears to be shrinking -- rapidly!

The analysis compares the purchase and operating costs of hybrids with comparable gas-powered models over a five-year period. It reveals that, although a hybrid costs more to purchase, over a five-year ownership period, it generally ends up being cheaper.

An average Honda Accord V6 owner is paying a least $370 more for gasoline this year than last year and probably more, if more than 50 per cent of the driving is in the city.

Over five years that really adds up and if the cost of gasoline continues to rise -- did I say if? -- a hybrid is going to look even more attractive.

Three new hybrid vehicles were added to the cost study this year and the second generation Honda Civic Hybrid is also completely new. The latter is a good example of the shrinking cost differential on a new vehicle purchase.

The BCAA figures from last year showed a before-tax $7,315 difference between Civic and Civic Hybrid. The '06 Civic Hybrid, however, is only $2,520 more than its similarly equipped gasoline version -- that's a $4,795 saving over last year. Add the tax and financing incentives that hybrids currently enjoy and you're already ahead of the game -- before you even put a drop of high-priced gasoline in the tank.

Another new hybrid that offers outstanding value is the all-new Toyota Camry Hybrid. Bigger than the Prius, it has a similar hybrid

drivetrain, but it produces the equivalent of 187 horsepower, and it costs less. And the pre-tax cost difference with a comparable gasoline-only Camry is less than $4,000.

Strangely enough, the biggest, most expensive hybrid in the study, the Lexus RX400h, also provided the largest cash return, $4,463.

The first reason for this is that it partially escaped the luxury sales tax premium, due to a $7,000 taxation rate adjustment allowed for hybrid vehicles over $55,000. And secondly, the more you borrow from VanCity at prime, by using its "Clean Air Auto Loan," the more you save.

With all these factors in play over five years, six out of seven hybrids worked out to be cheaper. BCAA cites shrinking purchase price differentials and higher fuel costs as the main reasons most hybrids are more affordable over the longer term.

The BCAA hybrid vs. conventional cost analysis assumes:

n gasoline cost of $1.15 per litre

n financing 80 per cent of total purchase cost and taxes, over five years

n neutral maintenance costs

n long-term depreciation and resale values remain unknown, so they are assumed to be neutral.

The use of hybrid power for transportation is not a new idea -- the old semi-electric pedal cycle comes to mind. When electrical power got low, you pedalled for a while until the bike built-up enough electrical energy for its electric motor to take-over and propel it again.

Although immensely more complex, today's hybrid vehicle essentially works in a similar way -- the big difference being that a gasoline engine does the pedalling for you.

It's not a zero-emissions vehicle but it's darn close, the fuel savings are considerable and the results are in -- it's now a cost-effective purchase.

In a recent BCAA poll, 62 per cent of members surveyed said they would be "very or somewhat likely" to consider purchasing a hybrid if the price was only 15 per cent higher. If hybrids and conventional vehicles were priced the same, the percentage of likely purchasers jumped to 78 per cent.

Bob McHugh is the Senior Technical Advisor at BCAA

- - -

2006 HYBRID COST STUDY

---- Honda ---- ---- Honda ---- ---- Ford ---- ---- Toyota ---- ---- Lexus ---- ---- Toyota ---- ---- Toyota ----

Civic Civic Accord Accord Escape Escape Matrix Prius RX330 RX400h Highlander Highlander Camry Camry

EX Hybrid EX-V6 Hybrid XLS Hybrid XR Auto Hybrid Premium Hybrid AWD V6 Hybrid SE Auto Hybrid

4 dr sedan 4 dr sedan 4 dr sedan 4 dr sedan 2wd 2wd 4 dr Hbk 4 dr Hbk 4 dr Hbk 4 dr Hbk 4 dr Hbk 4 dr Hbk 4 dr sedan 4 dr sedan

Vehicle Purchase Price (MSRP) 23,430 25,950 34,100 37,990 26,009 33,595 25,835 31,280 56,900 62,200 37,885 44,205 27,950 31,900

Freight and PDI 1,225 1,225 1,310 1,310 1,200 1,200 1,140 1,240 1,775 1,775 1,390 1,390 1,240 1,240

Net Purchase Price 24,655 27,175 35,410 39,300 27,209 34,795 26,975 32,520 58,675 63,975 39,275 45,595 29,190 33,140

PST (see note 5) 1,726 1,902 2,479 2,751 1,905 2,436 1,888 2,276 5,868 5,758 2,749 3,192 2,043 2,320

GST 1,726 1,902 2,479 2,751 1,905 2,436 1,888 2,276 4,107 4,478 2,749 3,192 2,043 2,320

less PST Credit 1,902 2,000 2,000 2,000 2,000 2,000 2,000

Total Cost of Acquisition 28,107 29,078 40,367 42,802 31,018 37,666 30,752 35,073 68,650 72,211 44,774 49,978 33,277 35,780

Down Payment (20%) 5,621 5,816 8,073 8,560 6,204 7,533 6,150 7,015 13,730 14,442 8,955 9,996 6,655 7,156

Amount Financed (80%) 22,485 23,262 32,294 34,242 24,815 30,133 24,601 28,058 54,920 57,769 35,819 39,983 26,621 28,624

Finance Rate (%) 8.75% 5.75% 8.75% 5.75% 8.75% 5.75% 8.75% 5.75% 8.75% 5.75% 8.75% 5.75% 8.75% 5.75%

Length of Finance (Term Months) 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60

Monthly Finance Payment 464 447 666 662 512 579 508 539 1133 1110 713 741 549 550

12 Month Cost 5,568 5,364 7,992 7,944 6,144 6,948 6,096 6,468 13,596 13,320 8,556 8,892 6,588 6,600

60 Month Cost 27,840 26,820 39,960 39,720 30,720 34,740 30,480 32,340 67,980 66,600 42,780 44,460 32,940 33,000

Fuel Consumption (Litres per 100 km, 50/50 Highway/City Split)) 6.85 4.75 9.25 6.9 9.75 6.8 7.4 4.1 10.9 7.6 10.9 7.8 8 5.7

Total Annual fuel consumed (litres) 1,370 950 1,850 1,380 1,950 1,360 1,480 820 2,180 1,520 2,180 1,560 1,600 1,140

Total Annual fuel cost 1,576 1,093 2,128 1,587 2,243 1,564 1,702 943 2,507 1,748 2,507 1,794 1,840 1,311

Annual Total Cost 7,144 6,457 10,120 9,531 8,387 8,512 7,798 7,411 16,103 15,068 11,063 10,686 8,428 7,911

Hybrid Savings per Year 687 589 -126 387 1,035 377 517

Five Year Total Costs 41,339 38,098 58,671 56,215 48,136 50,093 45,140 44,070 94,245 89,782 64,270 63,426 48,795 46,711

Hybrid Savings over 5 Years 3,241 2,456 -1,957 1,071 4,463 844 2,084

Max Finance amount at low interest 75,000

Prime 5.75%

Typical Lending rate (+3.0%) 8.75%

Finance Term 60

Annual Driving distance (km's) 20,000

Fuel Price per litre $1.15

NOTES AND ASSUMPTIONS:

1) MSRP and PDI information from CAA Autofusion Automaker program on www.bcaa.com

2) Finance rates from Vancity Clean Air Auto Loan program. Low interest quoted at prime.

http://www.vancity.com/Personal/Borrowing/EnvironmentalOptions/Clea nAirAutoLoan

3) Monthly payment calculation based on Total cost of acquisition fully financed.

Calculated on Loan Payment Calculator on www.bcaa.com

4) Fuel consumption data from National Resources Canada - 2006 Fuel Consumption Guide Fuel consumption rate based on straight 50/50 average

5) Lexus RX400h - PST tax rate of 9% after $7,000 adjustment.

6) The Toyota Matrix/Prius comparison used because of 4-door hatchback design and measurement similarities.

[gordholio]

I don't believe some of the mileage figures quoted by manufacturers of gas-electric hybrids. What I've read from actual car owners is they don't get the astronomical mileage that is promised.

[konfusion666]

I don't believe some of the mileage figures quoted by manufacturers of gas-electric hybrids. What I've read from actual car owners is they don't get the astronomical mileage that is promised.

You'll still get better mileage than the comparable gasoline vehicles.
How much better? It depends on the particular hybrid in question.
I know that the Prius'es were a notch above a 2-door Echo hatch.
(referring to real-world figures determined by ConsumerReports)

[Bullseye]

The mileage claims for non-hybrids are also not real-world numbers, so it probably all works out on balance.

It's not surprising that prices are coming down, it's no different than with any new high tech gadget, it gets cheaper over time. The early adopters of any new technology are the ones who pay the R&D costs of it.

[Evil Techie]

actually, hybrids have sort of a break-in period where their mpg is a bit low

it gets up once about 5000~10000 km has been put in gently
then it seems that mpg does go up a bit more and closer to EPA estimate according to lots of prius and lexus forum members

of course it wont get to EPA
nor usually will a gas car get up to EPA so dead on

[seftonm]

Apparently gas electric hybrids get slightly more inflated numbers from the EPA than regular combustion powered vehicles. When the test system is revised, gas electric hybrids will have a proportionally bigger drop in fuel economy numbers than non hybrids.

[x21hx]

hmm..when I did my calculations it would take me 10 or 15 more years to get its value back...

but my assumptions were different...

I can't remember exactly...but it was something with financing 30% of it...12000km annually $1/L for gas.... of course I'm sure those numbers aren't the norm...but for us...we wouldn't benefit from it since we don't put too many km on it

[Piro21]

I don't believe some of the mileage figures quoted by manufacturers of gas-electric hybrids. What I've read from actual car owners is they don't get the astronomical mileage that is promised.

A lot of car owners really don't know how to drive all that well, especially to conserve fuel. I'm willing to bet that a sizeable percentage of those who aren't getting the stated mileage are those who always floor it from a dead stop and speed like crazy.

[Evil Techie]

A lot of car owners really don't know how to drive all that well, especially to conserve fuel. I'm willing to bet that a sizeable percentage of those who aren't getting the stated mileage are those who always floor it from a dead stop and speed like crazy.

for sure
or carry around heavy stuff in the car the whole time

sometimes i can squeeze out 30mpg on avg on hwy out of my GS300 thats rated at around 27mpg on hwy

[FastFokker]

The problem I hold is all the extra fuel and energy that goes into making the extra systems to save on fuel and energy in hybrids.

It's a large contradiction.. I'm not saying it's a step in the right direction, but hybrids are really flopping.. they aren't the saviour we thought they would be.

We've got to come up with something better and brighter.. and so far, nothing is ideal.

[Bullseye]

hmm..when I did my calculations it would take me 10 or 15 more years to get its value back...

but my assumptions were different...

I can't remember exactly...but it was something with financing 30% of it...12000km annually $1/L for gas.... of course I'm sure those numbers aren't the norm...but for us...we wouldn't benefit from it since we don't put too many km on it

This is the key point, everyone who isn't buying a hybrid for environmental reasons (and that's a good reason alone) needs to do their own calculations. If you're only driving 12,000km per year, then I think gas would have to go substantially higher still before it becomes economically viable to go hybrid.

The average driver puts far more km's on, and the more you do, the more appealing it becomes.

[konfusion666]

The problem I hold is all the extra fuel and energy that goes into making the extra systems to save on fuel and energy in hybrids.

It's a large contradiction.. I'm not saying it's a step in the right direction, but hybrids are really flopping.. they aren't the saviour we thought they would be.

We've got to come up with something better and brighter.. and so far, nothing is ideal.

People are (considering) buying the hybrids for economical reasons, not tree-hugger reasons. :razz:

"Flopping" as what? They have always been a commercial product, not a idealogical answer to pollution (such a thing does not and will not exist). If it's a commercial product, for it to flop you must show that they're not generating profit...

[Evil Techie]

People are (considering) buying the hybrids for economical reasons, not tree-hugger reasons. :razz:

"Flopping" as what? They have always been a commercial product, not a idealogical answer to pollution (such a thing does not and will not exist). If it's a commercial product, for it to flop you must show that they're not generating profit...

i have a friend in washington, she bought the prius to save the environment
shes pretty well off but they are now looking into buying a second hybrid car for its environmental reasons

so yeah there are still a lot of ppl out there buying hybrids to get the ultra super low emission status and help out mother earth a bit

if ppl really want to save money and not care about the environment, they would buy more diesels instead of hybrids

[seftonm]

A lot of people can't see past their own exhaust pipe when it comes to emissions. Well-to-wheels analysis reveals that diesels are on par with gas electric hybrids for emissions. Biodiesel blends will help reduce emissions even more.

[gordholio]

i have a friend in washington, she bought the prius to save the environment
shes pretty well off but they are now looking into buying a second hybrid car for its environmental reasons

so yeah there are still a lot of ppl out there buying hybrids to get the ultra super low emission status and help out mother earth a bit

if ppl really want to save money and not care about the environment, they would buy more diesels instead of hybrids
The people that buy hybrids are people who are generally middle income or higher.
For the average person, they are on the expensive side.
Maybe as they make more of them, the prices will come down to the same as a regular car.

[Bullseye]

A lot of people can't see past their own exhaust pipe when it comes to emissions. Well-to-wheels analysis reveals that diesels are on par with gas electric hybrids for emissions.

I don't buy that. What types of emissions? Diesels and gas pollute in different ways, so you can't make apple to apple comparisons.

[Evil Techie]

A lot of people can't see past their own exhaust pipe when it comes to emissions. Well-to-wheels analysis reveals that diesels are on par with gas electric hybrids for emissions. Biodiesel blends will help reduce emissions even more.

thats if everyone fuels up with low-sulphur diesels

right now not every gas stations have low-sulphur diesels yet
especially down in united states

and its more or less on par with bio20
without biodiesel, emission still produce quite a bit of hydrocarbons

and they better make more hybrid buses right now because without particulate filters, diesel buses are very polluting

[FastFokker]

I think as long as we accept hybrid machines as the first step towards something brilliant, we're alright, but hybrids are definitely not an answer or a solution to our problems.
People are (considering) buying the hybrids for economical reasons, not tree-hugger reasons. :razz: You may be right, I don't know, I don't have the data.. though hybrids aren't the most economical means of transportation (data proves that).

As for myself, if I wanted to be economical, I would walk, ride a bicycle or take the bus.. heck even buy a motorcycle for the economy of transporting my butt from point A to be point B.

But, if I bought a hybrid, it would be because of "tree-hugger" reasons.. that I wish to reduce my burden on the environment and do my small part in my making a big change. Of course, if I reviewed the information hard enough, surely I would realize that hybrids are not the best idea for saving the environment.

Eliminating the suburbs would and WILL be the best change towards a better world and environment.

[konfusion666]

Eliminating the suburbs would and WILL be the best change towards a better world and environment.

Tear down all the houses in the suburbs and force everybody to live in massive 200 story skyscrapers in the City, like in all those sci-fi movies? :lol:

Maybe... but that would just cause as many problems as it solves. Pretty much anything you do will.

[FastFokker]

Tear down all the houses in the suburbs and force everybody to live in massive 200 story skyscrapers in the City, like in all those sci-fi movies? :lol: Many credible people claim the day is coming where the suburbs will actually be where the poor people live, it will be the new slums.

I don't look forward to that day, but I do see the cause of it's coming and the necessity.

[seftonm]

I don't buy that. What types of emissions? Diesels and gas pollute in different ways, so you can't make apple to apple comparisons.

The comparison involved greenhouse gases, VOC's, CO, NOx, PM10, and SOx.



thats if everyone fuels up with low-sulphur diesels

right now not every gas stations have low-sulphur diesels yet
especially down in united states

and its more or less on par with bio20
without biodiesel, emission still produce quite a bit of hydrocarbons

and they better make more hybrid buses right now because without particulate filters, diesel buses are very polluting

I thought most stations had low sulphur fuel by now? Ultra low sulphur is just beginning its phase in period in the US. Hydrocarbon emissions are one of the weak points of a gas engine and one of the stronger points for emissions in a diesel. On top of that, gasoline evaporates to create many volatile organic componds, which are essentially different types of hydrocarbons. Diesel does not evaporate to anywhere near the same degree as gasoline. While evaporative emissions controls will eliminate almost all emissions from evaporated gasoline in a vehicle, the rest of the supply chain is not as efficient.

I'd like to see more hybrid buses too, apparently Winnipeg is about to get some and they will have Cat ACERT engines. I'd really like to ride one of them. Part of the problem with buses is that a lot of the older ones are powered by the 2-stroke Detroit Diesel smoke factories.

[jda]

Is it really fair to say the maintenace cost is neutral?
How long can the battery in a hybrid last?
Also, how enviornmental friendly is it to dispose the battery when compare to the fossil fuel and emission it saves?

[Evil Techie]

i think there are still some stations that are not low sulphur
from what im hearing from some ppl down in the states anyways

of course europe is a whole new story, diesel is common enuf that they have to use clean diesel

down in the states, big cities probably have low sulphur diesel pumps fully implemented and perhaps ultra low sulphur is going in but US is really behind on it as diesel passenger car population is low and they discourage diesel by emposing tax and sometimes diesel fuel there cost more than gasoline


Is it really fair to say the maintenace cost is neutral?
How long can the battery in a hybrid last?
Also, how enviornmental friendly is it to dispose the battery when compare to the fossil fuel and emission it saves?

battery usually last 5~6 years if usage is high, normal usage: batteries should last around 7 years
depends on which generation of technology you are talking about too
the thing is, batteries are compact and can be disposed of in a confined area
pollution from exhaust pipes are not contained and is released into the air... and u know the rest of the story or as Al Gore would explain to you in his new movie

also there are news that the next Toyota Prius will be getting 94mpg using lithium-ion batteries
much lighter, compact and holds more charge than current gen

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/04/next_generation.php

so who ever wants a prius now may want to wait out 2 more years or so

[Cafe_333]

"n neutral maintenance costs"

Neutral maintenance costs my butt. The cost of maintenance of hybrid vehicles are significantly alot higher and therefore would screw up that author's math. This article doesn't mean anything with one author's opinion versus several experts who have unanimously agreed that it would take 8-10 years just to break even versus the cost of owning gasoline run vehicles.

[seftonm]

Is it really fair to say the maintenace cost is neutral?
How long can the battery in a hybrid last?
Also, how enviornmental friendly is it to dispose the battery when compare to the fossil fuel and emission it saves?

The battery pack in the Prius is warrantied for 8 years / 160000 kms.

[gordholio]

i think there are still some stations that are not low sulphur
from what im hearing from some ppl down in the states anyways

of course europe is a whole new story, diesel is common enuf that they have to use clean diesel

down in the states, big cities probably have low sulphur diesel pumps fully implemented and perhaps ultra low sulphur is going in but US is really behind on it as diesel passenger car population is low and they discourage diesel by emposing tax and sometimes diesel fuel there cost more than gasoline



battery usually last 5~6 years if usage is high, normal usage: batteries should last around 7 years
depends on which generation of technology you are talking about too
the thing is, batteries are compact and can be disposed of in a confined area
pollution from exhaust pipes are not contained and is released into the air... and u know the rest of the story or as Al Gore would explain to you in his new movie

also there are news that the next Toyota Prius will be getting 94mpg using lithium-ion batteries
much lighter, compact and holds more charge than current gen

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/04/next_generation.php

so who ever wants a prius now may want to wait out 2 more years or so


I think if they also redesigned the Prius, they'd get more buyers.
I've seen one or two around Midland and the design if very strange IMHO.

[Bullseye]

Many credible people claim the day is coming where the suburbs will actually be where the poor people live, it will be the new slums.

I don't look forward to that day, but I do see the cause of it's coming and the necessity.

Highly unlikely. It's very fashionable to bash the suburbs, and some of it is warranted, but a lot of it is bunk.

My three year old modestly sized house is far more energy efficient than the drafty, underinsulated old houses in the city, so my environmental impact is much lower. I can walk or bike to most of the stores that I need to go to (and I actually do this a lot), so even though we have two vehicles, we put maybe 25k a year on them, combined. We both work nearby, no long commutes here.

In contrast, I have many friends who live in downtown Toronto. They all have cars, and lots of them drive many more km's than we do. Combine that with the energy hog houses they live in, and I don't think they have any bragging rights about environmental impacts.

It IS possible to live in the city without a vehicle, but the only ones who do it are a) environmentally minded folks, or b) people too poor to afford a car. The vast majority of city dwellers are likely not living with any smaller impact that the suburbanites, on average.

[Bullseye]

The comparison involved greenhouse gases, VOC's, CO, NOx, PM10, and SOx.

Can you post a link to this study?

[bionicbadger]

"n neutral maintenance costs"

Neutral maintenance costs my butt. The cost of maintenance of hybrid vehicles are significantly alot higher and therefore would screw up that author's math. This article doesn't mean anything with one author's opinion versus several experts who have unanimously agreed that it would take 8-10 years just to break even versus the cost of owning gasoline run vehicles.

Yeah I can't buy into that lower cost thing either. Batteries don't last forever, they are expensive to replace and toxic to boot. So all these supposed "tree hugger" cars have batteries containing heavy metals that are dangerous to the environment too not to mention the risks when they get into a collision.

[anabeces]

does anyone know why diesel is so expensive? isn't it WAYYYYYYYY cheaper to make then regular fuel?

[FastFokker]

does anyone know why diesel is so expensive? isn't it WAYYYYYYYY cheaper to make then regular fuel?Perhaps because the military machine (USA) is using it all up.

Tell them to stop their war machine and suddenly diesel would fall flat.

[Evil Techie]

Yeah I can't buy into that lower cost thing either. Batteries don't last forever, they are expensive to replace and toxic to boot. So all these supposed "tree hugger" cars have batteries containing heavy metals that are dangerous to the environment too not to mention the risks when they get into a collision.

read my post on last page and ull see my explainations to why having a battery is better than having exhaust pipes that pipe out a heck lot more pollution

also batteries are pretty self contained
the current gen uses NiMH, not lead acid so it isnt that harmful and can be contained easily when theres an accident causing leakage

but chance of it leaking is very unlikely as there are so many layers of metal surrounding the batteries
and batteries are usually placed in the mid back of the car
near the rear axles

one thing about hybrids during a crash is that firefighters have to be careful where to cut the car up if needed
because there are high voltage wires running through out certain parts of the car
wouldnt want to kill anyone while rescueing...
but a lot of firestations in big cities are already trained to handle hybrid car accidents and have learned where to cut the car

hybrid car manufacturers are also working on labeling cut out points
toyota for example has Emergency response guide available on internet
http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WWW.woa/5/wo/Home.Vehicles.Prius-PfZMLZewzui1RfMU7RuC9M/3.5?ticker%5fdetail%5f3%5fe%2ehtml
and i bet that most fire stations have this info by now

heres a break down to Prius's warranty
http://www.toyota.ca/NWS/media/prius/pri_war_chart_e.gif
as u can see, hybrid components are covered for 96 months or 160,000km

powertrain for 100,000km or 60 months

and theres not much maintenance needed for the hybrid components actually
so i dont understand what those high costs u guys are talking about

as to why diesel is so expensive in north america
yes, diesel is suppose to be cheaper than gasoline
but because in US, gas prices are some what artificially kept low and because of their fuel policies, diesel prices are higher to due lower supply than in europe
i believe that all diesel vehicles in the states have to be specially taxed (higher than gas cars)
therefore, deters consumers from buying passenger diesel cars and resulting in a much lower supply

the supply then affects canada because big oil companies are american based

when i say demand for diesel is low, i mean consumer demand for diesel is low
commercial truckers pay a much lower price for diesel at cardlocks of course

and yeah, US army is using a heck lot of diesel oil
their tanks and supply trucks get pretty bad mpgs

in fact, i wonder if it was still worth it for US to go to iraq to steal their oil considering how much oil a war can cost too
lol jk, im sure its still worth it
theres still plenty of oil everywhere

hybrid of course is just a short term solution to our problems
and the most cost efficient and environmentally sound one at this moment

lets just wait until hydrogen comes into full play
and eventually micro-fusion reactors

[seftonm]

Can you post a link to this study?

I couldn't find it online again so I put it up at http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~umsefton/Car/emissions.pdf

[Evil Techie]

btw now that hybrid technology is much more mature and cost less to produce and will actually start to save money, i am hoping to see hybrid garbage trucks on the roads soon

and even hybrid military trucks be deployed soon

i think hybrids for now are still worth it due to their lower emission

[manixc]

If only the SUV craze didn't start in the 90's

[FastFokker]

If only the SUV craze didn't start in the 90'sIt's making up for the consumption lost in the 70's when many jumped into more efficient vehicles or just drove less due to the exhorbently high prices.