[Merged] THE LANDMARK MALL (Toronto/Scarborough)

[katostar]

http://www.thelandmarkcanada.com/
http://www.thelandmarkcanada.com/thelandmark/ click "the project" to find floor plans...maps...concepts

i hope this is not posted yet....i think we heard about this awhile back....about a new chinese mall building in that piece of land near the middlefield t&t plaza.....well i live near there and saw them starting contruction today....well digging up the grass and stuff....so i'm guessing they really are gonna start to build that mall

it should be abit different than pacific mall...i think it's divided into two phases....and the mall should be much bigger than pacific mall.....i also heard there would be a condo or something where u can live....and then go shop and eat there........also there should be lots of conference rooms for business ppl to hold their meetings.........i'm not 100% sure of what the outcome will be....but they are starting to build....so now another mall to shop and more traffic

and there should be a new traffic light at shadlock and steeles soon

~ more info about over 2000 parking spaces...largest indoor retail condo...over 500 stores...310,000 square feet under one roof....

[15-20_God]

great, now we will have more choices on where to buy pirated dvd's and women's undergarments. hopefully this one will have a fido and rogers store side by side rather than being separated by 4 stores.

[gman]

http://www.thelandmarkcanada.com/

i hope this is not posted yet....i think we heard about this awhile back....about a new chinese mall building in that piece of land near the middlefield t&t plaza.....well i live near there and saw them starting contruction today....well digging up the grass and stuff....so i'm guessing they really are gonna start to build that mall

it should be abit different than pacific mall...i think it's divided into two phases....and the mall should be much bigger than pacific mall.....i also heard there would be a condo or something where u can live....and then go shop and eat there........also there should be lots of conference rooms for business ppl to hold their meetings.........i'm not 100% sure of what the outcome will be....but they are starting to build....so now another mall to shop and more traffic

and there should be a new traffic light at shadlock and steeles soon

That location is not part of Markham unless you mean Markham Road.

[neospice]

Howcome all the pics are of asians.

[nano]

Howcome all the pics are of asians.

HAHA it says its a new chinese mall

[Irb]

Another step in the direction of selling more bootleg dvds to the white, brown and black communities. Where else can all worlds unite?

[ferkel]

Looks like this project has run out of money? They broke ground a year ago and its still a big pile of farm land. Anyone got the scoop?

[Blunt]

The Landmark, which hopes to be ready by Chinese New Year in January 2009 could well be largest of all with its own planned second phase completed.

http://www.insidetoronto.ca/news/News/Scarborough/article/29643

[yyz2hkg]

I think it was discussed here last year. The Landmark.

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468235&highlight=landmark

[molala]

That location is not part of Markham unless you mean Markham Road.

It's not on Markham Road either...

not sure it's true or not...but I believe they are owned by the owners of T&T

How many Chinese malls are out there??

[MasterXan]

i remembered someone posted an article saying that besides the Landmark, there will be a "Brown Pacific Mall." is it still true?

[gerbil]

i remembered someone posted an article saying that besides the Landmark, there will be a "Brown Pacific Mall." is it still true?

I heard different ... "White Pacific Mall" :D :D :D

[dragon_drift]

i remembered someone posted an article saying that besides the Landmark, there will be a "Brown Pacific Mall." is it still true?

i heard it's at mcnicole and something, forgot =S

[jp06]

i think this mall will FAIL. Pacific mall's traffic isn't as bad as before and less people shop there now. So to build another asian mall twice the size of pmall is probably going to be a diaster like Splendid China Centre (across from Pmall). Twice the size will mean twice the number of BBT shops, DVD stores, cell phone stores, and snack stores. At least there will be a variety of clothing stores unless JCY House plans on opening like 10 stores there and sell the same stuff.

[mic2074]

damn - too many malls... don't see how there's enough ppl to substain all these Chinese malls and plaza...

[Billa-786]

i remembered someone posted an article saying that besides the Landmark, there will be a "Brown Pacific Mall." is it still true?

i dunno if it will be next to it, but perhaps the mall you are referring to is the Sitarra mall.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/consumers/southasian-community.html

Instead of all these traditional malls.....Toronto needs a unique shopping experience to pull in tourists and residents alike. Something like a mega mall reflecting the diversity of the city.

[ferkel]

i dunno if it will be next to it, but perhaps the mall you are referring to is the Sitarra mall.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/consumers/southasian-community.html

Instead of all these traditional malls.....Toronto needs a unique shopping experience to pull in tourists and residents alike. Something like a mega mall reflecting the diversity of the city.

Thats hilarious.. a Chinese guy building a South Asian Mall, meanwhile Pacific, Market Village, China Splendid were built by Jews.

[ferkel]

looks site development has been postponed indefinitely.. all the heavy machines were removed from the site

[nano]

looks site development has been postponed indefinitely.. all the heavy machines were removed from the site

i cant see them starting the building. that building at brimley and sheppard was started during a recession it took 10 yrs to complete

[nyrz]

At Markham Road and Steeles, I noticed small strip mall(s) being built.
Any businesses open yet (restaurant)??
Thanks.

[pnpatrick]

Nothing as of yet.

TD Canada Trust is opening aswell as Teriyaki Experience. They're the only 2 signs put up with "opening soon" around the Landmark area.

The only thing that looks to be opening soon is Lowes.

[La LLAMA Laughs]

Right in front of Walmart on Steeles, there are signs up for: 4 banks (TD, RBC, BMO, Scotia), Teriyaki and LCBO.

More developments in the south-east corner of Markham Road and Steeles.

[Paranoidandroid]

The parking lot's gonna be a deathtrap.

[cheapmeister]

The parking lot's gonna be a deathtrap.

Why?

[ferkel]

Right in front of Walmart on Steeles, there are signs up for: 4 banks (TD, RBC, BMO, Scotia), Teriyaki and LCBO.

More developments in the south-east corner of Markham Road and Steeles.

CIBC was smart.. they are building in front of No Frills.

I wonder if anyone will occupy those Blue, orange, red, yellow buildings at the other corner... so colorful

[nhui06]

I dun get why we need another asian mall. The only 2 successful ones are FMP and Pmall, and they too have vacancies... go to another asian mall/plaza and they are pretty empty comparatively. And with the crackdown on bootleg dvds, what else will they sell???

[MasterXan]

I dun get why we need another asian mall. The only 2 successful ones are FMP and Pmall, and they too have vacancies... go to another asian mall/plaza and they are pretty empty comparatively. And with the crackdown on bootleg dvds, what else will they sell???

legit stuff :lol:

[adeel]

Right in front of Walmart on Steeles, there are signs up for: 4 banks (TD, RBC, BMO, Scotia), Teriyaki and LCBO.

More developments in the south-east corner of Markham Road and Steeles.

No idea that all the banks were opening right at Markham and Steeles area...maybe I can finally get a safety deposit box!

Any idea when they would be opening?

[ricoboxing]

And with the crackdown on bootleg dvds, what else will they sell???
bubble tea

[joeym]

I dun get why we need another asian mall. The only 2 successful ones are FMP and Pmall, and they too have vacancies... go to another asian mall/plaza and they are pretty empty comparatively. And with the crackdown on bootleg dvds, what else will they sell???

fish, beef and squid balls.

[Muncher]

They should open lots more dimsum places ... I'm tired of standing in line!

[Menace]

you should stop sleep in on the weekends, enuff late night porn movies :D:cheesygri:D


They should open lots more dimsum places ... I'm tired of standing in line!

[AV-Fishing]

http://www.thelandmarkcanada.com/

This project ... touted to be North America's LARGEST Asian Indoor Shopping Centre ... yeah ... even bigger than Pacific Mall ... has been going on for some time ... located on southside of Steeles Av. E. ... east of Middlefield Rd. ... right beside the T&T ...

The underground parking for Phase 1 was dugout in late 2007 ... until now nothing has happened ... seems like it just suddenly stopped.

Did the developer just run ... scamming out the people who purchased units there?

Or not enough funding?

Or problems with the zoning? (which in essence should have been looked at prior to anything happening in the first place)

Or maybe this gig is NOT happening?

Any insight on this project???

[pnyknights]

Seems like deja vu.
Anyone remember how long it took them to finish Oriental Centre at Sheppard Ave E and Brimley Rd?

[trixstar]

It's still empty out there. I don't see any dugout holes either. I don't think we'll see this landmark for the next 5 years.

[navyseals]

This will be a relief since you can choose between pmall and this one... with all the parking troubles.

[jp06]

This will be a relief since you can choose between pmall and this one... with all the parking troubles.

parking might be a relief, but i just hope the stores won't be the same like Pmall (if this mall does get built). I don't want to be walking in some mall twice the size of Pmall only to find it's mainly DVD's, Bubble Tea shops, and Cell Phones & Accessories. And i doubt there'll be any high end brand stores even though they try to make Landmark look "upscale".

[ferkel]

It looks like Landmark project is onhold indefinitely.. maybe 10 years, maybe never.
I went to the sales office for the new project called the Mall at Kennnedy/7 with the new T&T slated for 2011/2012. People were buying units like candy. Over half the units were sold... or so they appeared on the sales map.
I just can't envision that mall.. there not enough parking

[chinamansteve]

It looks like Landmark project is onhold indefinitely.. maybe 10 years, maybe never.
I went to the sales office for the new project called the Mall at Kennnedy/7 with the new T&T slated for 2011/2012. People were buying units like candy. Over half the units were sold... or so they appeared on the sales map.
I just can't envision that mall.. there not enough parking

went there as well. they said the parkin space will mostly be underground...but yeh, the land there is too small to sustain a mall. traffic will be crazy.

[Jon Lai]

went there as well. they said the parkin space will mostly be underground...but yeh, the land there is too small to sustain a mall. traffic will be crazy.

I saw the maps. It's 1 floor of parking on the ground level, and two floors of underground parking. From the plans it looks like there's around 200-300 spots in total. Don't forget though, this mall is linked up to townhouses and a condo, which should be at least 30-40% of the mall's traffic, so parking is not so much of a problem.

[jp06]

What's going on with that site anyway? It looks like there won't be a Landmark Mall because I drove by recently and i think it was a Lowe's that i saw being built on that part of land.

[Jon Lai]

What's going on with that site anyway? It looks like there won't be a Landmark Mall because I drove by recently and i think it was a Lowe's that i saw being built on that part of land.

Lowe's is part of the project.

[AV-Fishing]

Just bladed into the area ... took some shots with my cellphone camera ...

It looks very dead ... I mean completely dead ...

Weeds galore!

There is a road that was done up ... a year and a half ago!
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/98Fahrenheit-ebay/Landmark/DSC01154.jpg

There "was" a hole dug up ... for the underground parking ... can't see it here ... but if you go into the T&T parking lot ... you can definitely see it ...
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/98Fahrenheit-ebay/Landmark/DSC01155.jpg

A couple of cable guys doing something ...
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/98Fahrenheit-ebay/Landmark/DSC01156.jpg

This "was" supposed to be Phase 1 (west of the road in picture 1 - right beside T&T):
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/98Fahrenheit-ebay/Landmark/DSC01157.jpg

This "was" supposed to be Phase 2 (east of the road in picture 2 - right beside Walmart):
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/98Fahrenheit-ebay/Landmark/DSC01158.jpg

This house "was" kept "alive" due to historic value (supposed to be used for some cafe of some sort ... ie. Starbucks or whatever):
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/98Fahrenheit-ebay/Landmark/DSC01159.jpg

Retail Units of Lease (are you kidding me? how about Land for Sale?):
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/98Fahrenheit-ebay/Landmark/DSC01160.jpg

I think I should ask my cheap-ass friend (RL) as to what's happening ... his brother in law or some relative apparently is a part owner of the entire project ...

But then again ... he's probably too busy ignoring his wife and three kids and going fishing all the time ...

Maybe his relative made off with the money ... scamming those who purchased units with downpayments ... and the units in the "complex" were NOT cheap at all!

[ferkel]

project is postponed indefinitely

[user01]

Landmark Mall plus Remington Center = bad traffic

[Madchester]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fa/Vaughan_Mills_Sign.jpg

Looks dead.. but maybe just delayed?

I took this photo of the Vaughan Mill site back in October 2000. The mall was suppose to open in 2002 (as stated on the sign), but they didn't really break ground on the project until 2003 and the mall finally opened in 2004. In the process, they reshuffled some of the planned anchors (i.e., US retailers trying to break into Canada) to make the project happen. For example, there was suppose to be some X Games Skatepark/Store... which ended up being the current Nascar Speedpark instead. Bed, Bath, and Beyond were suppose to break into Canada with Vaughan Mills being their first location, but instead they delayed their expansion plans.... though they did eventually crack into our market.

The developers did blow some hot air into their press releases. i.e., this supposed ski and surf store would either have an indoor ski hill or an artificial wave machine for lsurfing essons. Ultimately, they came to their senses, scaled down Vaughan Mills a tad, and it filled the need for a traditional indoor shopping centre - some 20 years after that last one was built in the GTA.

Don't know if the GTA can support another Asian mall.... let alone just a few blocks down the same street.

[charliebrown]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fa/Vaughan_Mills_Sign.jpg

Looks dead.. but maybe just delayed?

I took this photo of the Vaughan Mill site back in October 2000. The mall was suppose to open in 2002 (as stated on the sign), but they didn't really break ground on the project until 2003 and the mall finally opened in 2004. In the process, they reshuffled some of the planned anchors (i.e., US retailers trying to break into Canada) to make the project happen. For example, there was suppose to be some X Games Skatepark/Store... which ended up being the current Nascar Speedpark instead. Bed, Bath, and Beyond were suppose to break into Canada with Vaughan Mills being their first location, but instead they delayed their expansion plans.... though they did eventually crack into our market.

The developers did blow some hot air into their press releases. i.e., this supposed ski and surf store would either have an indoor ski hill or an artificial wave machine for lsurfing essons. Ultimately, they came to their senses, scaled down Vaughan Mills a tad, and it filled the need for a traditional indoor shopping centre - some 20 years after that last one was built in the GTA.

Don't know if the GTA can support another Asian mall.... let alone just a few blocks down the same street.

Good point about project delays -- but keep in mind Vaughan Mills was built/owned by Ivanhoe Cambridge (backed by the Quebec pension plan) & the Simon Property Group (i.e. the largest publicly traded real estate company on the S&P)

[pnyknights]

Just bladed into the area ... took some shots with my cellphone camera ...

It looks very dead ... I mean completely dead ...

This house "was" kept "alive" due to historic value (supposed to be used for some cafe of some sort ... ie. Starbucks or whatever):
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/98Fahrenheit-ebay/Landmark/DSC01159.jpg


Sorta reminds you of the house they got near the costco in Markham....One lone busted up house in the middle of nowhere.

[trixstar]

the area is still dead.. i dont think this mall will be happening

[PSiBeR]

I still dont understand the need for so many asian malls. I'm actually against the idea (I'm chinese). Its pretty solidified that its gonna be another Pmall with cellphone stores, bubbletea, and bootleg clothing/dvds. These "upscale" stores they're talking about.. I highly doubt I'm gonna see LV, or even Club Monaco in there. So I don't know what kind of "upscale" stores they can actually think of.

They already have that mall they're building in the kennedy/hwy 7 area being built, which I'm also against since I live near that area and I can already imagine how bad traffic will be at around 3-4pm on weekdays, let alone weekends.

[King James]

There is a sign saying 2012 at the site. Anyone has more info?

[adeel]

There is a sign saying 2012 at the site. Anyone has more info?

Nothing else thers another billboard by Shoppers/T&T stating some tenants (not sure how committed they are) off the top of my head they include St. Louis bar and grill, TD Bank, Quiznos and a few others...smoehow I doubt even late 2012 occupancy is possible but I live right acros the street so I cant wait for this to be built so I can check it out

[mysticalinfluence]

The parking lot's gonna be a deathtrap.


Why?

Do we really have to answer this you already know why. :lol:

[dragon_drift]

yay more ugly malls...seriously though, they should go with a nicer looking mall rather than a typical mall like Pacific Mall. Something new and interesting.

[Joshray]

There is a sign saying 2012 at the site. Anyone has more info?

why bump an OLD thread!

[King James]

why bump an OLD thread!

hmm... you want me to start a new thread so the mod can merge it because it's a repost? AFAIK this project has not finished or started yet so the thread should not be expired? No?

Anyways, I just want to see if there are any news about this.

[optimizer]

Construction is underway - all the owners got letters stating that construction is starting a expecting a Nov 2012 occupancy

[ferkel]

Construction is underway - all the owners got letters stating that construction is starting a expecting a Nov 2012 occupancy

Thats pretty optimistic, I don't think they will start until the spring thaw pushing the date until Nov 2014/15.

China Splendid had Phase 2 ground breaking in July 2010, do you see any construction happening now? Nope :)

[EPcjay]

Thats pretty optimistic, I don't think they will start until the spring thaw pushing the date until Nov 2014/15.

China Splendid had Phase 2 ground breaking in July 2010, do you see any construction happening now? Nope :)

We are in Canada. Everything is slow here. From constructing a simple road, house, transit to a simple building.

[pnyknights]

We are in Canada. Everything is slow here. From constructing a simple road, subway, to building.

Like that path they dug out (Which is now covered in snow) along the Scarborough hydro corridor for what looks like a dedicated bus lane similar to the one going to York U?

[ferkel]

Project is finally dead.. Signs have been removed, and new signs wanting big box store is up

[Jon Lai]

Project is finally dead.. Signs have been removed, and new signs wanting big box store is up

Anyone have pictures of the new signs?

[adeel]

Project is finally dead.. Signs have been removed, and new signs wanting big box store is up

yup, noticed this as well last week (though not sure how long ago the signs were changed)...not surprising given there has been no activity at this site for what, about a year? I was looking forward to an indoor mall, but an outdoor mall/retail similar to what is closer to markham road (with the banks) would be fine if we can get some of the same tenants that were supposed to be coming in


Anyone have pictures of the new signs?

ill see if I can snap some, but Mady is the company doing the developing, its their signs over the place. If i recall correctly, they are the ones doing Kings square by kennedy and 407

[Jon Lai]

ill see if I can snap some, but Mady is the company doing the developing, its their signs over the place. If i recall correctly, they are the ones doing Kings square by kennedy and 407

King's Square is at Woodbine/16th, Kennedy and 407 is Langham Place.

[adeel]

King's Square is at Woodbine/16th, Kennedy and 407 is Langham Place.

my mistake, not familiar with langham place name...is it the same as south unionville sq (which is what i meant in the first place)

[RealEst8]

Too bad the prime land at the south west corner of Markham/Steeles has been developed into more big box stores... such a waste. They should've mixed in some residential (such as condos). The parking lots are always half-occupied, especially at the wal-mart supercentre.

[jaysfan4life]

They should have left the land alone. I miss the farm that use to be on that property, that Walmart is such a PITA to shop in I just drive up to box grove.

[adeel]

Too bad the prime land at the south west corner of Markham/Steeles has been developed into more big box stores... such a waste. They should've mixed in some residential (such as condos). The parking lots are always half-occupied, especially at the wal-mart supercentre.

The area (north of Steeles, from east of Kennedy to Markham Rd) is already residential, so no, more residential doesnt make alot of sense to me...I quite like the big box stores, most of the places that opened would have normally required me to go to Highway 7 or somesuch if the locations did not exist.


They should have left the land alone. I miss the farm that use to be on that property, that Walmart is such a PITA to shop in I just drive up to box grove.

I dont know when the farm was there, but im happy to see development. This stretch has really changed in the last number of years. I thought the mall would have been transformative, but i guess we'll see what comes up instead.

[gman]

Too bad the prime land at the south west corner of Markham/Steeles has been developed into more big box stores... such a waste. They should've mixed in some residential (such as condos). The parking lots are always half-occupied, especially at the wal-mart supercentre.

If I have to choose between big box stores and residential (especially condos), I take big box stores anytime.

Living in the area, it is nice to have a decent size park, Walmart, Lowes, NoFrills, TnT with minimum driving.

I don't even understand why you even complained about half occupied parking lot. Do you really want to have a fully occupied parking lot? No thanks.

[gman]

They should have left the land alone. I miss the farm that use to be on that property, that Walmart is such a PITA to shop in I just drive up to box grove.

A farm land does not do anything to me. If it is a park, it is different story.

[RealEst8]

If I have to choose between big box stores and residential (especially condos), I take big box stores anytime.

Living in the area, it is nice to have a decent size park, Walmart, Lowes, NoFrills, TnT with minimum driving.

I don't even understand why you even complained about half occupied parking lot. Do you really want to have a fully occupied parking lot? No thanks.

I'm not even complaining. I'm pointing out a fact that the anticipated success of another WALMART failed. On any given day, that WALMART is not busy enough to justify the land use. I'm sure they are still making money, but not "as much" as other better locations. Same goes for Lowes. You have Home Depot down the street (North on Markham Rd) that has been established many years ago. So even though there is competition, it just means more wasted land space because barely anyone shops at that location. You probably don't even understand the impact of big box stores. BTW, if you read my post clearly, i said they should've MIXED in residential because that can potentially intensify the area while sustaining retail use. I guess you know nothing about mixed-use.

[gman]

I'm not even complaining. I'm pointing out a fact that the anticipated success of another WALMART failed. On any given day, that WALMART is not busy enough to justify the land use. I'm sure they are still making money, but not "as much" as other better locations. Same goes for Lowes. You have Home Depot down the street (North on Markham Rd) that has been established many years ago. So even though there is competition, it just means more wasted land space because barely anyone shops at that location. You probably don't even understand the impact of big box stores.

That would be perfect for me. I really don't like to go to a packed store and a busy parking lot. If it is packed, I won't go. i.e. I won't go to another Walmart (such as those in Markville and STC) but I go to that one (it is closer to me too) although it is still busier than I would like. I also love Lowe's to be pretty empty and I found store deals there (without being emptied by others). I have zero problem with empty space.

[RealEst8]

That would be perfect for me. I really don't like to go to a packed store and a busy parking lot. If it is packed, I won't go. i.e. I won't go to another Walmart (such as those in Markville and STC) but I go to that one (it is closer to me too) although it is still busier than I would like. I also love Lowe's to be pretty empty and I found store deals there (without being emptied by others). I have zero problem with empty space.

i shop at that walmart as well because it's not busy and easier to find a close parking space. But that just proves my point of under-used space. Why do you think North America is dominated by suburbs? Because they keep building these stupid single-use retail developments and houses that keep extending the suburbs.

[gman]

i shop at that walmart as well because it's not busy and easier to find a close parking space. But that just proves my point of under-used space. Why do you think North America is dominated by suburbs? Because they keep building these stupid single-use retail developments and houses that keep extending the suburbs.

What is your problem with that? I certainly do not have problem with that. I love empty space. No, I don't want the "mixed" use. It is busy enough already. I want it to be less busy and not busier. I prefer to have more parks way before than residential. I don't want another Kennedy/Midland and Steeles.

[RealEst8]

What is your problem with that? I certainly do not have problem with that. I love empty space. No, I don't want the "mixed" use. It is busy enough already. I want it to be less busy and not busier. I prefer to have more parks way before than residential. I don't want another Kennedy/Midland and Steeles.

LMAO now you say you prefer to have more parks, and yet, here you are praising the big box developments (more concrete, less greenery). The whole point of mixed-use is to decrease car usage and make multi-purpose developments on the same amount of land. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[gman]

LMAO now you say you prefer to have more parks, and yet, here you are praising the big box developments (more concrete, less greenery). The whole point of mixed-use is to decrease car usage and make multi-purpose developments on the same amount of land. You have no idea what you're talking about.

No. I said I prefer to have more park before more residential area for MY area. I know what I am talking about. You just don't know what I am talking about.

I prefer to have more big boxes in my area so that I don't need to drive further.
I prefer to have less resident so that it will be less traffic. Steeles is not downtown. People still go to work. People will still drive. At least, they will take bus. People in another area does not have to come to my area. They have closer Walmart. They have closer Home Depot. They have closer TnT. They have closer Rona. They have closer NoFrills. Why are the parking lots empty? Because they don't come here.

So, big box > park (since as I mentioned there is a decent one in the area already) > residential house > condo building.

Goal 1: I drive less.
Goal 2: less growth of population in my area.
Goal 3: less growth of traffic in my area.

Having more residential structure in my area against goal 2 and 3 directly and properly can affect my goal 1 (as driving further to avoid people).

[RealEst8]

No. I said I prefer to have more park before more residential area for MY area. I know what I am talking about. You just don't know what I am talking about.

I prefer to have more big boxes in my area so that I don't need to drive further.
I prefer to have less resident so that it will be less traffic. Steeles is not downtown. People still go to work. People will still drive. At least, they will take bus. People in another area does not have to come to my area. They have closer Walmart. They have closer Home Depot. They have closer TnT. They have closer Rona. They have closer NoFrills. Why are the parking lots empty? Because they don't come here.

So, big box > park (since as I mentioned there is a decent one in the area already) > residential house > condo building.

Goal 1: I drive less.
Goal 2: less growth of population in my area.
Goal 3: less growth of traffic in my area.

Having more residential structure in my area against goal 2 and 3 directly and properly can affect my goal 1 (as driving further to avoid people).

So this basically proves my point, not enough consumers to justify that land-use. Why build a big-box plaza when they're not frequented? You think like a typical suburbanite. You think people in the suburbs drive less? Most are lazy asses and will drive 5 mins to the nearest big-box plaza rather than walk or take public transit, and they most likely drive further distances to work. Who said Steeles was a downtown? Now you're just making stuff up.

Fact 1: Suburbanites drive more to get around (they tend to work further from where they live)
Fact 2: Population growth continues to increase, that's why big-box developers continue to build big-box centres to attract suburbanites like you
Fact 3: Auto usage continues to increase annually (since when has it declined?)

Unless you live in the boonies and work in the boonies, then i don't see how your goals are anything close to the reality.

[gman]

So this basically proves my point, not enough consumers to justify that land-use. Why build a big-box plaza when they're not frequented? You think like a typical suburbanite. You think people in the suburbs drive less? Most are lazy asses and will drive 5 mins to the nearest big-box plaza rather than walk or take public transit, and they most likely drive further distances to work. Who said Steeles was a downtown? Now you're just making stuff up.

Fact 1: Suburbanites drive more to get around (they tend to work further from where they live)
Fact 2: Population growth continues to increase, that's why big-box developers continue to build big-box centres to attract suburbanites like you
Fact 3: Auto usage continues to increase annually (since when has it declined?)

Unless you live in the boonies and work in the boonies, then i don't see how your goals are anything close to the reality.

Fact 0: when did I say anyone said Steeles was a downtown? I just pointed out people will still go to downtown for works. Putting a mix use will not reduce EXISTING population and traffic.
Fact 1: mix use or not. That area is already suburban. People will still drive around to get around. Adding more resident or mix use will not change the existing behaviour of the people who are living here.
Fact 2: putting residential housing in MY area will directly increase the population. If you did read what I wrote, I said LESS growth. I did not say NO growth.
Fact 3: again, I said LESS growth. Not NO growth. Putting more residential housing in my area makes it grows faster.

Fact 4: I live in here and I work in here.

Regarding if the big box justifies the land use because of not enough customer, I don't really care. What I really care is what that piece of land will be used if it is not part of the big box. For me, the worst case is to build more residential housing. Empty space? As I said, perfect. To be a park, I can live with it. More big boxes to occupy that 'extra' space, may be but I lean on the current set up though.

[RealEst8]

Fact 0: when did I say anyone said Steeles was a downtown? I just pointed out people will still go to downtown for works. Putting a mix use will not reduce EXISTING population and traffic.
Fact 1: mix use or not. That area is already suburban. People will still drive around to get around. Adding more resident or mix use will not change the existing behaviour of the people who are living here.
Fact 2: putting residential housing in MY area will directly increase the population. If you did read what I wrote, I said LESS growth. I did not say NO growth.
Fact 3: again, I said LESS growth. Not NO growth. Putting more residential housing in my area makes it grows faster.

Fact 4: I live in here and I work in here.

that's nice that you live and work in Markham. But you do not represent the majority of those who live in the suburbs who drive to work elsewhere. You obviously have the wrong conception that less people shopping at these big-box centres mean population is slowed. It's because there are too many of them that shoppers are spread everywhere in the suburbs. And how do you think they get to them? They drive. You still don't get the point of mixed-use, as in, condos + retail combined. :facepalm: You're thinking like you're still in the 90's where everything has to be segregated into single-uses.

[gman]

that's nice that you live and work in Markham. But you do not represent the majority of those who live in the suburbs who drive to work elsewhere. You obviously have the wrong conception that less people shopping at these big-box centres mean population is slowed. It's because there are too many of them that shoppers are spread everywhere in the suburbs. And how do you think they get to them? They drive. You still don't get the point of mixed-use, as in, condos + retail combined. :facepalm: You're thinking like you're still in the 90's where everything has to be segregated into single-uses.

Does it matter to me how the majority think or do? Not really.

The current set up is perfect as perfect for me.

My wish is people lives somewhere else does not drive to here. It appears this may be the case.

Do I care about the point of mixed-use? No. It does not fit my life style. Others may and they can live in the community that does mixed-use. May be "Downtown Markham". They may be able to get that mixed-use finish in another 10 years.
I don't see the problem about thinking like in 90's. I always like specialties. Wait! We are in 2012 and people is still thinking the same way. Hence, they are still building the big boxes. BTW, does it really matter if it is 90's? Mixed-use is also 70's too and you make it sounds like new fashion.

Regarding your opinion of driving is pointless, are you saying if the current Walmart and Lowe's become a mix-use, people who lives there will not drive to work? If yes, you are dreaming. If no, it only means more cars in my area.

I have been talking about my area. The population of my area will grow faster if there is more residential housing in my area. Do you really disagree with that? My area is along Steeles between Brimley and Markham road.

[RealEst8]

Does it matter to me how the majority think or do? Not really.

The current set up is perfect as perfect for me.

My wish is people lives somewhere else does not drive to here. It appears this may be the case.

Do I care about the point of mixed-use? No. It does not fit my life style. Others may and they can live in the community that does mixed-use. May be "Downtown Markham". They may be able to get that mixed-use finish in another 10 years.
I don't see the problem about thinking like in 90's. I always like specialties. Wait! We are in 2012 and people is still thinking the same way. Hence, they are still building the big boxes. BTW, does it really matter if it is 90's? Mixed-use is also 70's too and you make it sounds like new fashion.

Regarding your opinion of driving is pointless, are you saying if the current Walmart and Lowe's become a mix-use, people who lives there will not drive to work? If yes, you are dreaming. If no, it only means more cars in my area.

I have been talking about my area. The population of my area will grow faster if there is more residential housing in my area. Do you really disagree with that? My area is along Steeles between Brimley and Markham road.

hmm your wish is for people to live somewhere else and not drive there? That's not happening any time soon... you can keep dreaming about that goal. We were talking about big box stores and now you decide to mention about Downtown Markham, a wannabe downtown? This is starting to get boring...

[Jon Lai]

hmm your wish is for people to live somewhere else and not drive there? That's not happening any time soon... you can keep dreaming about that goal. We were talking about big box stores and now you decide to mention about Downtown Markham, a wannabe downtown? This is starting to get boring...

gman is referring to a location where there is nothing but stores, where everyone goes to for shopping. Sort of like a mall, except less crowded. The first place that comes to mind is High Tech Road from Yonge to Bayview. Markham/Steeles is most likely going to develop into something similar, but not quite there yet. gman likes this type of establishment because there is nothing but stores there, so the parking lots aren't mixed with residential uses. Because of this, people can live in bedroom communities and just flock to these large shopping areas for shopping. This helps reduce the amount of cars in the bedroom communities.

On another hand, your mixed use development is more like downtown or along Yonge between Finch and Sheppard, where you have shopping malls on the 1-3rd floors, parking in the basement, and condos from the 4-5th floor upwards. People who live in these areas do not necessarily need a car because they can just take the elevator down and all their shopping needs are there. If it's not, a walk to the next building or (!) a bridge there would suit your needs. This also reduces the amount of cars, but limits where you can go as you don't have a car. These locations are usually only successful along major corridors or mass transportation routes. This is the main reason why gman brought up Downtown Markham, as it's the closest thing to this model that will be developed in the suburbs within the next decade.

Both you and gman have different preferences. I think it's safe to say that neither of you will be persuaded by another, so there's no point arguing who's right or wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Rather, let's get back on topic.

I'm still interested in the pictures of the new signs that are up if anyone's passed by the area recently. Does anyone know what exactly will be there instead?

[gman]

hmm your wish is for people to live somewhere else and not drive there? That's not happening any time soon... you can keep dreaming about that goal. We were talking about big box stores and now you decide to mention about Downtown Markham, a wannabe downtown? This is starting to get boring...

First, my goal is already reached. The current situation in my area is exactly what I want. Will it be changed to what you described? May be. If that is the case (although I don't like it), the parking lots will be filled and the land is not wasted.

Downtown Markham is what you have being asking for. Do you know what Downtown Markham is?
Downtown Markham is a project that does exactly what you wanted. Mixed-use. Condo, retails, offices (higher pay jobs), entertainment, bus station, parks, bike path, all in one community.
If Downtown Markham is not the model you have been lobbying for, what else were you lobbying for?
I thought you wanted to drop a "Downtown Markham" like mixed use project to replace Walmart and Lowe's area. May be I misunderstood what you want.

[brandon1]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the single nationality mall concept such as Pacific Mall. It simply promotes/leads to areas that are less multicultural. I'm hoping now that this project is dead, that a outdoor mall similar to Shops At Don Mills, takes place. Great concept where it's not only a mall, but also a vibrant outdoor community. That's the future of mall shopping, and it would certainly put the area on the map.

[adeel]

I'm still interested in the pictures of the new signs that are up if anyone's passed by the area recently. Does anyone know what exactly will be there instead?

Signs say new retail pads...not sure what that means (im guessing similar development to the groups of retail/restaurants a bit further down)

original plans included a st. louis bar and grill, td bank, opa (some kind of fast food greek franchise), quiznos, burger king and some others

not sure what will come now...tbh i was looking forward to the indoor mall

[RealEst8]

First, my goal is already reached. The current situation in my area is exactly what I want. Will it be changed to what you described? May be. If that is the case (although I don't like it), the parking lots will be filled and the land is not wasted.

Downtown Markham is what you have being asking for. Do you know what Downtown Markham is?
Downtown Markham is a project that does exactly what you wanted. Mixed-use. Condo, retails, offices (higher pay jobs), entertainment, bus station, parks, bike path, all in one community.
If Downtown Markham is not the model you have been lobbying for, what else were you lobbying for?
I thought you wanted to drop a "Downtown Markham" like mixed use project to replace Walmart and Lowe's area. May be I misunderstood what you want.

Downtown Markham is a large-scale planned community most likely catering upscale groups. How do you relate that small parcel of land at Markham/Steeles with Downtown Markham? Those two are different. As for Markham/Steeles, it's just a suggestion that they should include some mix of residential into development given how under-used that area is. Your conceptions of "mixed-use" are definitely the extreme.