The Toronto Blue Jays/MLB Thread

[La Fleur]

This kid is insane. I guess Buck is all but gone. Kid comes up and already a fan favourite probably.

[Jimboski]

This kid is insane. I guess Buck is all but gone. Kid comes up and already a fan favourite probably.

Mmmhm, His jersey Is probably going to sell like Hot Cakes after the game :D!

[djstiles]

What a gong show. And how about some stats on how many players have hit for the cycle in their first major league game?

As far as I know and everything I have ever it has never been done. Don't want to jynx J.P. but it would be one for the history books!

Only two Blue Jays have ever hit for the cycle before:

Classic Kelly Gruber in 1989 - Homerun/Double/Triple/Single against the Royals. People have told me he could have easily turned the single into a double

And Jeff Frye did it in 2001 - Wierdly enough, Kelly Gruber was in attendance for that game

[djstiles]

My favorite Jays player John Olerud hit for the cycle twice and is one of only two players to hit a cycle in both the American League (with the Mariners in 2001) and National League (with the Mets in 1997)

I loved Johnny O and was so mad when they traded him in the winter of 96 for Robert Person

[djstiles]

Wow, both home runs were on the first pitch of the at-bat!

I like what John Buck and Molina have done this season but LOOK OUT!!!

[La Fleur]

As far as I know and everything I have ever it has never been done. Don't want to jynx J.P. but it would be one for the history books!

Only two Blue Jays have ever hit for the cycle before:

Classic Kelly Gruber in 1989 - Homerun/Double/Triple/Single against the Royals. People have told me he could have easily turned the single into a double

And Jeff Frye did it in 2001 - Wierdly enough, Kelly Gruber was in attendance for that game

I remember when Frye did it. Gruber was sitting in the TD seats at the time, I think. Or whatever they were called back then.

Pretty damn memorable year so far for rookies. Nava hits a first at bat grand slam for his mlb debut. Castro gets 6 rbi, a mlb record i think, in his first game. Arencibia 2 jacks and one short of the cycle in his debut.

I've seen more no-hitters, walk off grand slams, etc, etc. this year than I can remember.

[La Fleur]

Overbay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jimboski]

Overbay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damn, Go Jays!

[Madchester]

I added Arrencibia on my team last nite.... but I started Posada (and Posey) ahead of him... :lol:

[La Fleur]

Just looked up most HR's by a team in one game and whad'ya know:

1987 Blue Jays - 10 dingers against rival Baltimore (most in NL was 9)

. . . . . . . . . . . .

2010 Blue Jays - 8 dingers against rival Rays


Also most HRs by different players in one game has the Jays tied with 7 along with a few other teams. Today they have 6.

[djstiles]

Wow, 17 runs by the Jays! Sad that their pitching staff gave up 11 runs but a win is a win!

Welcome to the majors JP! 4 for 5 with 2 dingers!

[La Fleur]

9 games back of the WC and the Jays suddenly figuring out the AL East with back to back series wins against NY and Tampa. Even with Riciardi gone, the Jays tease us with machinations of playoff potential! Damn you Arencibia! It's going to be hard to get down from this high. One can dream . . .

[White Comet]

Ahahaha, what great timing of the injury to John Buck. We must thank A-rod for that foul ball. Speaking of A-Rod, he's injured during batting practice where he got hit by a line drive by Lance Berkman.

But man, the bull pen is shaky today but the crowd was awesome. JP JP JP JP JP JP JP JP JP!

[djstiles]

Great to hear all of those chants for "JP" and knowing that they are positive as opposed to boos for riccardi

[inntents]

9 games back of the WC and the Jays suddenly figuring out the AL East with back to back series wins against NY and Tampa. Even with Riciardi gone, the Jays tease us with machinations of playoff potential!

So, do we get another "throwaway" game tomorrow from Cito? I mean, come on, we won the first two games of the series, be happy with that! (see Yankees series)

How about we rest Escobar, cuz he's played a few games in a row now, he must be tired. Johnny Mac needs to play to stay sharp, so we should rest Hill, too. Ditto for Wise - let's rest Lind, or better yet, Bautista, we don't want him to get too far out in front in the home run race. Besides, VW might get his nose out of joint, and he's a veteran, so he's more important. We definitely have to sit out JPA as well, after all, it is a day game after a day game...........>:(

(Damn, why is there no tongue-in-cheek emoticon?)

[djstiles]

hahaha we laugh now but I wont be surprised if Cito does sit some key guys.
"We scored 17 runs yesterday, legs must be tired, i'll sit anyone who blinks more then twice"

Would have been nice to sweep the Yanks, hopefully Jays can beat Rays again tomorrow

[Lucky Ducky]

Great game and wonderful start for JP!!!!!

Awesome! :)

[La Fleur]

So, do we get another "throwaway" game tomorrow from Cito? I mean, come on, we won the first two games of the series, be happy with that! (see Yankees series)

How about we rest Escobar, cuz he's played a few games in a row now, he must be tired. Johnny Mac needs to play to stay sharp, so we should rest Hill, too. Ditto for Wise - let's rest Lind, or better yet, Bautista, we don't want him to get too far out in front in the home run race. Besides, VW might get his nose out of joint, and he's a veteran, so he's more important. We definitely have to sit out JPA as well, after all, it is a day game after a day game...........>:(

(Damn, why is there no tongue-in-cheek emoticon?)

Lol, so true. Probably say something assinine like, Molina needs to catch for Morrow or Morrow won't be able pitch good. Meanwhile, Arencibia is sitting in the dugout like "wtf dude? I just became a fan favourite in less time than you, you stubborn old mule"

Johnny Mac definitely needs to start prepping his exit. Once the Cuban comes up, him and Escobar will make a nice tandem. As great a fan fave as J-Mac is, please no sympathy games for him, Cito. Same goes for Buck, since we all know he's gone this winter. I guess with Cito not being manager next year, this madness won't last much longer.

[trellaine201]

Jays have played some very good ball this year. How in the world are we not in contention?

[Skip2MyLou]

Wow just came back from the game.
Crowd was louddd for all of Arencibia's at-bats. All his at-bats were so clean, for the first 3 at-bats the only swing he took was the one that got the hit, no foul balls or swinging strikes.

I can't believe Mills didn't get the win today, with the Jays scoring 17.
He looks like the Brad Mills from last season, couldn't locate the strike zone. The Orioles start could've been a one time thing, since Baltimore is so bad.

Molina will start tomorrow, guaranteed because he's caught every single one of Morrows' games since like May. I hope it's not a throwaway game, because we have a good chance of sweeping the Rays tomorrow.

[trellaine201]

Wow just came back from the game.
Crowd was louddd for all of Arencibia's at-bats. All his at-bats were so clean, for the first 3 at-bats the only swing he took was the one that got the hit, no foul balls or swinging strikes.

I can't believe Mills didn't get the win today, with the Jays scoring 17.
He looks like the Brad Mills from last season, couldn't locate the strike zone. The Orioles start could've been a one time thing, since Baltimore is so bad.

Molina will start tomorrow, guaranteed because he's caught every single one of Morrows' games since like May. I hope it's not a throwaway game, because we have a good chance of sweeping the Rays tomorrow.

JP Riccardi was just on ESPN discussing Arencibia and Bautista. Claims Arencibia has gotten better defensively and should average around .250-.270and 20-20HRs, claims Bautista should hit 20HR a year.

Not that Riccardi is worth listening to but he did draft Arencibia.

[Hairball]

Wow just came back from the game.
Crowd was louddd for all of Arencibia's at-bats. All his at-bats were so clean, for the first 3 at-bats the only swing he took was the one that got the hit, no foul balls or swinging strikes.

I can't believe Mills didn't get the win today, with the Jays scoring 17.
He looks like the Brad Mills from last season, couldn't locate the strike zone. The Orioles start could've been a one time thing, since Baltimore is so bad.

Awesome game today for the offence, I just got home from it, couldn't believe all the homers.

Brad Mills didn't get the win because he didn't pitch 5 innings, starters have to pitch at least 5 complete innings to get a win. He struggled, I guess the Orioles are just really bad.

[Maxman]

Its obvious this can guy can hit. What is the synopsis on his d? I read he could play 1B but Jays opted to train him at C.

Thanks

He needs to work on his rhythm with the pitchers. He seemed to be in motion - either his body or glove when the pitcher was in his delivery - and was often late setting the target - which may explain why the Jays pitchers seemed a little wild in the late innings - especially Janssen. But his offence means he should get a full-time spot next year.

I'm wondering what the chances of turning him to a 3B would be. They have two other very good catching prospects (Jeroloman's OBP is sick), plus they have Molina and/or Buck as options. They have no future 3B since they traded Wallace - maybe D'Arnaud.

Anyway, pretty impressive debut.

On another note, CITO HAS TO GO! To burn through the bullpen with a ten run lead and only two innings - just bad managing. He should have let Fraser throw two innings, but instead used 3 pitchers over 2 innings, and had two guys up in the pen in the ninth! Stupid! Guaranteed the pitching staff struggle over the next 7-10 days.

And Wells, swinging at the first pitch in EVERY at bat! God, how is this guy the clean-up hitter? He has no patience, never waits for his pitch, just hacks and pops-up, then jogs to first base! I wish they could buy out his contract as he's a horrible influence on this young team.

[Skip2MyLou]

Ahahaha, what great timing of the injury to John Buck. We must thank A-rod for that foul ball. Speaking of A-Rod, he's injured during batting practice where he got hit by a line drive by Lance Berkman.

But man, the bull pen is shaky today but the crowd was awesome. JP JP JP JP JP JP JP JP JP!

LMAO, A-Rod was saying hi to joe buck, one of the commentators for Fox and Berkman hits him in the leg. Pretty hilarious.


Brad Mills didn't get the win because he didn't pitch 5 innings, starters have to pitch at least 5 complete innings to get a win. He struggled, I guess the Orioles are just really bad.

Yeah, i knew that. But I mean Cito didn't give him the chance to get the win cause he struggled so bad and couldn't last 5 innings even with a 8-3 lead.


On a side note, Red Sox signed Carlos Delgado to a minor league contract. I guess they don't trust Mike Lowell? Delgado probably won't be ready to play for a month at least.
But there goes the Jays' chance of landing him :mad:

[Beeg]

It's nice to have an exciting team in town.

[nano]

the Jays need these wins so badly their next series is vs Boston then out west as LLA then OAK and the road trip ends in Boston...

[La Fleur]

JP Riccardi was just on ESPN discussing Arencibia and Bautista. Claims Arencibia has gotten better defensively and should average around .250-.270and 20-20HRs, claims Bautista should hit 20HR a year.

Not that Riccardi is worth listening to but he did draft Arencibia.

To be fair to JP, he does have an eye for talent, and if the Jays go on to do big things, it'll be on the back of his signings. Nevertheless, JP sure loves to hear himself talk . . . I suppose that's why he's working for ESPN now.

[La Fleur]

LMAO, A-Rod was saying hi to joe buck, one of the commentators for Fox and Berkman hits him in the leg. Pretty hilarious.



Yeah, i knew that. But I mean Cito didn't give him the chance to get the win cause he struggled so bad and couldn't last 5 innings even with a 8-3 lead.


On a side note, Red Sox signed Carlos Delgado to a minor league contract. I guess they don't trust Mike Lowell? Delgado probably won't be ready to play for a month at least.
But there goes the Jays' chance of landing him :mad:

Kind of a strange signing. Red Sox have a slim chance of making the playoffs (ok, more than slim, but they have the toughest path there), plus Lowell's a fan fave. I know Lowell could use a platoon just based on getting some rest, but why does Delgado not go to San Fran or some other team more likely to be in the playoffs? At least he would get extra playing time in the playoffs this way to keep sharp.

[Maxman]

To be fair to JP, he does have an eye for talent, and if the Jays go on to do big things, it'll be on the back of his signings. Nevertheless, JP sure loves to hear himself talk . . . I suppose that's why he's working for ESPN now.

I agree - evaluating young talent wasn't JPs problem. His problem was the stupid signings he made that didn't work out - WELLS, Stewart, Ryan, Glaus, Thomas, and many, many others. When things didn't work out, they were shipped out of town with the Jays picking up huge portions of their contracts and little to no value coming back. The drain on financial resources often left him unable to sign enough draft picks - especially high ones like the two highly ranked Cdn pitchers last year - to properly develop the farm system.

So, with dead weight contracts, few young prospects, and no cash, his poor asset management left the team with a few good prospects, but not enough to be competitive.

His ego led him to believe that the team was closer to competing than it was, OR the marketing department ran the team.

SO, it will be interesting to see how his young prodige handles the same issue next year. Will he believe that one or two big signings will get them into the playoffs (it won't), or will he do what he said he would do - sign all their draft picks, and build through the system?

Its interesting that he traded Halliday for young assets, assuming that the team had no chance to compete, but held on to Overbay, Bautista, Downs, Frasor, et al, at the deadline. I hope its to get and SIGN sandwich picks next year, rather than the believe that a couple of big contracts will make them competitive.

We'll likely know by January!

[La Fleur]

A lot of the big name signings didn't fare well - but, there's no denying the ones that worked well the last while have been legit stars in their prime, Clemens, for example. Thomas was a bad move and he cashed in on one resurgent year. Kind of like expecting Guererro or Rolen to be as good next year as this past year, despite their age. Ryan was a classic case of overpaying relievers which many, many teams do. They are so volatile in their stats and often young upstarts come along that'll have great years. Very few rock solid relievers like Rivera, who are almost 100% bets. Lots of guys they signed were super utlitiy, type of role players - the Ecksteins, Meintkeiweiczs, Johnsons, etc. - but these guys come and go.

I think if the Jays continue to make waves with their homers and such, they'll have a better chance of bringing in a big name like Clemens again. But, a playoff berth is their best chance, beyond all things. Otherwise, I agree to build through the system smartly and try to do what the Yankees did with a rotating door of homegrown stars.

[canabiz]

Robbie Alomar is in the news again, albeit for the wrong reasons

http://www.thestar.com/article/844051--restraining-order-issued-against-robbie-alomar

Does this, coupled with his AIDS story last year, change your perception about Robbie? I'd like to remember him as the best second baseman that the Jays has ever had but he is definitely not one of my favorite Jays of all-time.

[Maxman]

Robbie Alomar is in the news again, albeit for the wrong reasons

http://www.thestar.com/article/844051--restraining-order-issued-against-robbie-alomar

Does this, coupled with his AIDS story last year, change your perception about Robbie? I'd like to remember him as the best second baseman that the Jays has ever had but he is definitely not one of my favorite Jays of all-time.

Seriously, she called the cops because he was standing within a few inches of him! Wow, that sure is news worthy.

Alomar was a phenominal second baseman and batsman... HoF worthy - should have been first ballot. Like many athletes, he seems to be a bit of a prima donna. And there are lots of stories about him out there. He used to date a girl from Sudbury... amongst others! Like I said, he was well known as a batsman!

Doesn't change my view of him, because I separate baseball from all the other media-driven garbage.

[djstiles]

Robbie Alomar is in the news again, albeit for the wrong reasons

http://www.thestar.com/article/844051--restraining-order-issued-against-robbie-alomar

Does this, coupled with his AIDS story last year, change your perception about Robbie? I'd like to remember him as the best second baseman that the Jays has ever had but he is definitely not one of my favorite Jays of all-time.

It doesn't do any more damage in my opinion. To me, Alomar will always be the best 2nd basemen in Jays history but the spitting incident took him down quite a few places on my all time favorite Jays list

[Manatus]

Molina steals a base and gets a standing ovation! :lol:

[djstiles]

Molina steals a base and gets a standing ovation! :lol:

Great time for his first stolen base of the year!! He's trying to steal some of the catching spotlight from JP!

[djstiles]

Great that Morrow is having such a strong start to the game! 16 batters faced, 9 K's to start the game! Hope the Jays can add some run support, 1 run leads never feel safe with this bullpen

[djstiles]

That was Molina's 1st stolen base since 2007 and 9th of his career!

[Spray]

Easily the most exciting jays game I've watched all year.

Morrow 14 k's through 7, what a fleecing trading league for morrow.

Morrows raw but has electric stuff.

[waterlookid]

no hitter through 8 and 16k's...you can do it man!

[La Fleur]

Just got home . . . Morrow is killing! Wow, I hope he K's the side and gets the record for the Jays, rather him than Clemens.

[gei]

Yes I know there's a sports forum.. and yes there's a jays thread. But I don't care.

Many of you may thank me later... for potentially witnessing some blue jays history.

[grappos13]

Omg just wow

[kilarney]

Dang, there goes the no hitter for Morrow.

[waterlookid]

hill makes the craziest plays but he misses that... :(

[grappos13]

man.. talk about bad luck..

but even hill got it that, i dont think he coulda got longoria at first anyway...

too bad they were playing longoria to pull the ball or else they have that..

they shoulda moved more into the hole after longoria pulled the pitch before foul! :D

[Psubs]

Well Morrow gets his first ever complete game and strikes out 17. :-0

It'll keep him hungry to get 20 k's and a perfect game. :D

SWEEP!!!!

[Longobongo]

damn, just caught the final inning, thats a hard one to take, great performance but it wouldn't be as memorable than a no-hitter, maybe they should've walked him

[canabiz]

Congrats to Morrow, I was taking a nap on the couch with the TV on and could hear the announcers trying not to mention the no-hitter to avoid the jinx.

Oh well, I wonder how long Wells will be out for and who will replace him? Wise?

[La Fleur]

Man, Morrow got completely Stiebed there. At this rate, he's bound to throw one sooner or later. Would've easily been the best no hitter this year though. Now the Jays only 8 games back!

Cito better get Snider in OF. Wise sucks. Keep Lewis at leadoff and have him play LF, Bautista center, Snider RF or something. Jays gotta keep this streak going.

[Maxman]

the announcers trying not to mention the no-hitter to avoid the jinx.



Jamie Campbell would have been talking about the no-no in the third inning! Now he's calling Escobar Junel! What the hell?

[MrWizard]

Jamie Campbell would have been talking about the no-no in the third inning! Now he's calling Escobar Junel! What the hell?

In Spanish cultures it's fairly common to pronounce a Y as a J.

[Jimboski]

Nice, Swept the Rays.

So close but yet so far for Morrow :(.

[nano]

i was at the game... it was great... everyone was crushed when Hill missed that ball.... and the Molina stolen base was funny ( i was thinking wft Molina stole a base) and to top it all off we got free pizza today!!

[Jimboski]

i was at the game... it was great... everyone was crushed when Hill missed that ball.... and the Molina stolen base was funny ( i was thinking wft Molina stole a base) and to top it all off we got free pizza today!!

Haha nice, I want some pizza too >:(!

[Skip2MyLou]

Damn that Evan Longoria, he should go back to the desperate housewives.
Pretty crazy game, the crowd was into it since the first when he struck out the side to start the game.
This was probably the most exciting series this season.
Yesterday's game and today's were very fun to watch.

1 Strikeout shy of tying the record of 18k's by clemens.
Congrats to Brandon Morrow for an amazingly pitched game.

[trellaine201]

Wells has a dislocated toe and maybe more...going for xray tomorrow and will miss a few games at least.

Not the most nimblest of players thats for sure, he does get injured easily.

Very good catch though none the less.

[Maxman]

Wells has a dislocated toe and maybe more...going for xray tomorrow and will miss a few games at least.

Not the most nimblest of players thats for sure, he does get injured easily.

Very good catch though none the less.

Seems every time he tries, he gets hurt. Haven't seem him charge a ball and dive since he broke his wrist. Doesn't run hard to first since he pulled his hammy. He's a very soft player.

[Hairball]

damn, just caught the final inning, thats a hard one to take, great performance but it wouldn't be as memorable than a no-hitter, maybe they should've walked him

Awesome pitching by Brandon Morrow today, I wish he got it, but he did look a little shaky in the 9th, probably got nervous, which isn't a surprise.

You don't really wanna walk a guy either intentionally or unintentionally in the 9th of a 1 run game, and we didn't want to be in a position to lose it.

[Beeg]

With a little luck and a few good moves, this team could be seriously in the playoff hunt next year.

It would be nice to have the Jays important again.

[trellaine201]

Seems every time he tries, he gets hurt. Haven't seem him charge a ball and dive since he broke his wrist. Doesn't run hard to first since he pulled his hammy. He's a very soft player.

I agree! He makes some good catches BUT he is soft.

[canabiz]

With a little luck and a few good moves, this team could be seriously in the playoff hunt next year.

It would be nice to have the Jays important again.

Why not give it their all this year? They still have a shot. They are currently 10 games back from the Yankees for the A.L. East crown and 8.0 games back from the Rays for the wild-card spot. Only 2 other teams are ahead of them in the wild card standing and that is Boston and Minnesota.

There are still a little bit less than 2 months until end of the regular season. I would like to see the Jays being relevant again in October.

[Maxman]

With a little luck and a few good moves, this team could be seriously in the playoff hunt next year.

It would be nice to have the Jays important again.

Ponder this.... if they kept Halladay, there rotation would be Halladay, Marcum Romero, Morrow, and Cecil. Thats pretty good! If they would have spent a few dollars on a closer and bench depth, they'd definitely be in the running right now.

I thought last year that they should have kept Halladay and made a run this year. But, when you have a new GM, and a young one, he'll likely stick with a 5 year rebuild because it provide some job secuirty for him.

[Madchester]

I saw McGowan lose that no-hitter in the 9th a few yrs back.

Saw Halladay do the same against the Tigers in 98.

Likewise with David Cone back in 95. He would have been working on a perfect game in the ninth, if it wasn't for an Alex Gonzalez (the original one) error in the first.

Now I can add Brandon Morrow to the list.

[La Fleur]

How does a guy who's on pace to beat Tony Fernandez for most games played as a Jay next year considered soft? Has played over 100 games every year since being a regular on the team and only 07 was because of his major wrist injury. I think Vernon's got too much of a bad rep due to his fat contract and sometimes less than stellar stats. Otherwise, this guy beasts it for his team and gets ill reception. Saves a no-hitter and people berate him. Sure he's got a bit of a swagger when he catches the ball, but he's no Manny out there. Too many self-loathing Jays fans with short memories.

I also agree Jays should go for it this year. I'm trying not to have rose coloured glasses, since almost every August they are at some point a good 7-10 games back from being in the playoffs, but this team has something special brewing. Gonna hold out optimistic, yet sensible hope.

[ItechJester]

usually if its the ninth inning, 2 outs, and the pitcher has a no hitter going, I favour just striking out on purpose.

however, in this case, its a one run game, and the rays have been struggling recently. can't fault longoria for trying.



all in all, awesome game for morrow, 18 k's is redonculous!
he'll remember this day, and just like halladay, morrow will get his no hitter/perfect game one day.

[Maxman]

How does a guy who's on pace to beat Tony Fernandez for most games played as a Jay next year considered soft? Has played over 100 games every year since being a regular on the team and only 07 was because of his major wrist injury. I think Vernon's got too much of a bad rep due to his fat contract and sometimes less than stellar stats. Otherwise, this guy beasts it for his team and gets ill reception. Saves a no-hitter and people berate him. Sure he's got a bit of a swagger when he catches the ball, but he's no Manny out there. Too many self-loathing Jays fans with short memories.

For the supposed team leader, he doesn't give it his all very often. When he does, he seems to pull up lame. That's why I say he is soft.

When a player is blessed with a tonne of talent, and that's the best he can do with it, I think its disappointing to all fans.

And I'm not a self-loathing Jays fan with a short memory. My memories go back to Alfredo Griffin winning rookie of the year, Tony Fernadez taking his job from him, almost winning the pennant in 85, 87, 89.... Dave Steib's three lost no-hitters in the ninth inning, and his no hitter, Junior Felix hitting a homrerun in his first at-bat. I was at the home operner of the SkyDome, I've probably watched or listened to 2,000 Jays games since 1977, and have seen outfielders from Barry Bonnell and Dave Collins, to Bell, Barfield and Moesby, to White and Carter, and I can assure you that Vernon Wells plays a soft game.

[La Fleur]

For the supposed team leader, he doesn't give it his all very often. When he does, he seems to pull up lame. That's why I say he is soft.

When a player is blessed with a tonne of talent, and that's the best he can do with it, I think its disappointing to all fans.

And I'm not a self-loathing Jays fan with a short memory. My memories go back to Alfredo Griffin winning rookie of the year, Tony Fernadez taking his job from him, almost winning the pennant in 85, 87, 89.... Dave Steib's three lost no-hitters in the ninth inning, and his no hitter, Junior Felix hitting a homrerun in his first at-bat. I was at the home operner of the SkyDome, I've probably watched or listened to 2,000 Jays games since 1977, and have seen outfielders from Barry Bonnell and Dave Collins, to Bell, Barfield and Moesby, to White and Carter, and I can assure you that Vernon Wells plays a soft game.

I'm speaking for many fans in general who get on Wells, especially when he gets hurt. I agree that he seems to sometimes not utilize his talent to the max, but give the guy a bit of a break. Nevertheless, his name will be on a significant amount of Jays records in a few years time, so to criticize lack of hustle is a moot point. I think he suffers from the championship syndrome - being so talented and yet not able to steer his team to contention. That's about the only thing I could criticize him of.

[Manatus]

I saw McGowan lose that no-hitter in the 9th a few yrs back.

Saw Halladay do the same against the Tigers in 98.

Likewise with David Cone back in 95. He would have been working on a perfect game in the ninth, if it wasn't for an Alex Gonzalez (the original one) error in the first.

Now I can add Brandon Morrow to the list.

Clearly you need to stop watching if the Jays pitcher has a no-hitter going into the 9th. ;)

[Hairball]

Clearly you need to stop watching if the Jays pitcher has a no-hitter going into the 9th. ;)

Oh man, I really remember that one Halladay had in 1998, he was pitching so well, and then the ball is driven out. It's too bad he never reached greatness in a Blue Jays uniform.

Considering we haven't had one since 1990, I think we're probably due, plus our pitching is solid.

[inntents]

Ponder this.... if they kept Halladay, there rotation would be Halladay, Marcum Romero, Morrow, and Cecil. Thats pretty good! If they would have spent a few dollars on a closer and bench depth, they'd definitely be in the running right now.

No way you can make that kind of a stretch. Everything changes if they had kept Halladay - the clubhouse atmosphere and relationships, other pitchers' mindsets, possibly management's handling of the staff, etc. IIRC, a few Jays players (Marcum comes to mind?) said that the clubhouse loosened up A LOT once Roy left, because that's just the effect his intensity had on the younger guys there. Not a shot at Roy, that's just the way he was and it worked for him for many years. But not everyone works/plays as well in such a straitlaced atmosphere. Also, a team can subconsciously come to depend on a superstar to "carry the load" and not perform up to their potential. It makes me think of how the Leafs, about ten years ago, would always start to play better as a team, with more contributions from lesser players, as their star players (Sundin, et al) got injured. The more of the top guys would get hurt, the better the team played!

Ramble over.

[Psubs]

Cheering the Redsox to reel in the Yankees. :lol:

Game at 2 pm today.

[nano]

I agree! He makes some good catches BUT he is soft.

VW isn't soft.... everyone in the park thought it was a homer.. he was running at full speed jumped hit the wall.

[Skip2MyLou]

Cheering the Redsox to reel in the Yankees. :lol:

Game at 2 pm today.

Red Sox win!
Welcome back Jacoby Ellsbury, 4 stolen bases this game. Kept him on my fantasy team on the DL for ages.

[Psubs]

Cheering the Redsox to reel in the Yankees. :lol:

Game at 2 pm today.

:twisted:

Sign Pappelbon next year!!! Gregg as righty setup man and Purcey and lefty setup man!

[La Fleur]

Ya, I cheered on the Red Sox quietly at the gym . . . felt so dirty inside. I hope the Price is wrong for Tampa tonight. Miggy better jack some taters and put the Rays down.

[tighty whities]

:twisted:

Sign Pappelbon next year!!! Gregg as righty setup man and Purcey and lefty setup man!

Commentators were flat out wrong, Paps is under control through 2011 (he isn't a free agent until after the 2011 season).

[Yankees 1903]

Have to thank the Jays for sweeping the Rays in that three game set. Lots of Yankees fans were happy about that in NYC (amazing weekend in NYC watching the Yanks.)

[Psubs]

Have to thank the Jays for sweeping the Rays in that three game set. Lots of Yankees fans were happy about that in NYC (amazing weekend in NYC watching the Yanks.)

Hopefully, they can sweep Boston next to keep them far away from youz guyz. :twisted:

[Spray]

We want the red sox to LOSE.

Noones catching the Yankees.

[La Fleur]

Yanks are gonna be hard to catch with their dynamic offense, even if their pitching struggles, which I'm sure it will. Tampa's young pitching has held up well, but Boston's pitching is the most worrisome, when you got guys like Beckett just starting to heat up after being on the DL, Dice-K, Lester, Bucholz, etc. I think, and hope, that all 4 teams play a game of tug of war the next 2 months and we have an actually legitimately tight race in the AL East.

[RonB143]

Jays swept Tampa this past weekend, what a pleasent suprise!

Tampa wins the division, Yanks take wildcard this year! :-0

[rollen]

any chance for the jays to make a strong push for the wild card? they're in a bit of a roll but 8.5 games back with less than 2 months to go...hmm.

[Shimso]

any chance for the jays to make a strong push for the wild card? they're in a bit of a roll but 8.5 games back with less than 2 months to go...hmm.

Its a definite shot at a spot in any division but the AL East. :(

If it was the AL or NL Central we'd be ~3.5 back of the division lead, 4 back of the NL wildcard, 5 back of the division lead in the AL West, 4.5 back of the division lead in the NL east, 4 back of the NL Central lead, 5.5 back of the NL West lead. Instead, we're 4 back of 3rd place :(

[Hairball]

any chance for the jays to make a strong push for the wild card? they're in a bit of a roll but 8.5 games back with less than 2 months to go...hmm.

It's unlikely, they're too many games behind. But who knows? Maybe we can make it interesting.

It would be a dream for me to go to a Blue Jays playoff game.

[White Comet]

I don't know about our pitchers pitching in the post-season, all would be way over the innings limit imposed on them this year.

[trellaine201]

Bosox all over the Jays in the first,

[Jimboski]

Bosox all over the Jays in the first,

Yup, Cmon! Go Jays Go!

[tighty whities]

Let's go Red Sox! :D

[trellaine201]

Not looking good, better get the bullpen working. Were getting stomped on!

[Psubs]

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=10798761

DOUCHE BAG!!! :lol:

[trellaine201]

I could almost be positive that Jays second baseman was stealing signs on that Snider bomb to right center field.

His bat was loaded as Mats began his wind up lol.

[trellaine201]

I swear he says Baptista? Sorry Buck is horrible as the main guy. Why can't they attract a real play by play guy? The best we had was Dan Shulman. Its never been the same since. They always hire these cheapies.

[Baseball_Boy]

Anyone see the brawl btw the Reds and Cardinals? lol Rolen and Carpenter got into it. If only they showed that much intensity when they played here. :lol:

[trellaine201]

Jays really need a REAL number 1 starter. I sure hope they address this during the offseason either via trade or free agent.

[Maxman]

Anyone see the brawl btw the Reds and Cardinals? lol Rolen and Carpenter got into it. If only they showed that much intensity when they played here. :lol:

Rolen was the Jays most intense player when he was here.

[nano]

man you know what can ruin a good ballgame.... a bunch of kids unsupervised yapping for 9 innings straight...

[La Fleur]

I friggin hate Buck. I actually was like "man, I'll take Sam fecking Cosantino over Buck Futter Martinez" It's that bad. Complete deadpan, no emotion. Mix him with Pat Tabler and too much of the same thing. Buck pronounces every word with the opposite syllabic emphasis that the other 99.9% of the world does:

David OR-tiz instead of David Or-TIZ
Edwin Encarna-SHOWN

Maybe he has a hate-on for Latinos?

Anyway . . . good to see that brawl. Phillips talking too much trash lately, I wouldn't take that either and in true fashion, Cards respond with hits, runs and a win in the end. I like Cincy's run this year, behind the likes of Rolen and Votto, so kind of sad to see Phillips as the mouthpiece. Was awesome to see Rolen and Carp going at it. Maybe Lilly and Johnson will go at it in the clubhouse next week? Or Scutaro and Burnett in the next Sox/Yanks series?:twisted:

[White Comet]

Overall pretty bad game tonight. Ricky was off his game tonight, leaving pitches up constantly, maybe it has something to do with Arencibia tonight. Matsuzaka setting up pitches for Jays hitters to hit but are constantly missing. Boston giving extra outs to the Jays and don't capitalize.

[Baseball_Boy]

Rolen was the Jays most intense player when he was here.

Not Halladay?

[Skip2MyLou]

I friggin hate Buck. I actually was like "man, I'll take Sam fecking Cosantino over Buck Futter Martinez" It's that bad. Complete deadpan, no emotion. Mix him with Pat Tabler and too much of the same thing. Buck pronounces every word with the opposite syllabic emphasis that the other 99.9% of the world does:

David OR-tiz instead of David Or-TIZ
Edwin Encarna-SHOWN

Maybe he has a hate-on for Latinos?

Jose Baptista.
Encarna-Shown is getting really annoying. He's trying way too hard to put an accent into it.

[Baseball_Boy]

I always hear Buck pronounce Bautista as Bow-tista... so annoying! Watch tonight's game and you'll hear it too. Boo urns :mad:

[tighty whities]

I always hear Buck pronounce Bautista as Bow-tista... so annoying! Watch tonight's game and you'll hear it too. Boo urns :mad:

that and his wheezing laugh

[La Fleur]

Tampa lost to Detroit. Time for a Jays victory and they'll be 8 back of the Wild Card.

Glad to see V-Dub back. No more Fred Lewis mis-plays at center.

[White Comet]

Jays getting destroyed 9-1. Doesn't help that the ump tonight had a consistent but tiny strike zone, which is very unfavourable to Marcum.

[nano]

I think JP has something to do with it..... the pitchers kept on shaking him off... i bet the Jays will have a better game tomorrow.... because Molina will be behind the plate..

[La Fleur]

Overbay cleared waivers and can now be traded. With JP and Snider being played so often, it looks like the Jays are packing it in for the year and trying to get their young guns as much playing time as possible. Especially when they can't beat Boston, TO is really a stretch to make a playoff push. If Overbay leaves, Lind could do more first base. Couldn't JP also do first base? They have D'Arnaud still for catcher. I guess it'll be one giant experiment. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see where Overbay ends up, now that Boston and NY picked up 1-bag backups. Maybe Tampa, Chicago, or San Fran?

[La Fleur]

Hell of a comeback for the Jays. Small balled their way to a win. Scored 4th in the 9th to win it. And of course, Bautista with his requisite homer. Nice moral victory there, backed by some stellar relief pitching. Downs and Purcey are the shizz, I hope Downs doesnt go. Frasor pretty solid in this one too. And Gregg gets the win!

[Jimboski]

Hell of a comeback for the Jays right now. Scored 3 in the bottom of nine, hopefully they take this one.

They will, You just gotta believe!

[Rocketo]

game done nice win by the jays..

[nano]

yeah bitches!

[jokadeska]

finally PappleBLOWN

[La Fleur]

Bill Hall with a big fat O-fer in this one. Sucks for those roto-leaguers who took him. I think I know why Buck calls Jose "Baptista" . . . it's because he's the Latin baptizer of baseballs . . . he christens them and sends them skyward to meet their maker!

[La Fleur]

Quickest to 60 wins for the Jays since '99! Way to go boys.

[White Comet]

Purcey to the DL?

[Skip2MyLou]

Hell of a comeback for the Jays. Small balled their way to a win. Scored 4th in the 9th to win it. And of course, Bautista with his requisite homer. Nice moral victory there, backed by some stellar relief pitching. Downs and Purcey are the shizz, I hope Downs doesnt go. Frasor pretty solid in this one too. And Gregg gets the win!

Amazing comeback! 2nd walk off victory of the season.
I love watching small ball, im tired of all this homerun **** all the time.
Good to see they were playing for the win the whole time, as hill didn't bunt wise over this time, they let him swing away.

[162]

Overbay cleared waivers and can now be traded. With JP and Snider being played so often, it looks like the Jays are packing it in for the year and trying to get their young guns as much playing time as possible. Especially when they can't beat Boston, TO is really a stretch to make a playoff push. If Overbay leaves, Lind could do more first base. Couldn't JP also do first base? They have D'Arnaud still for catcher. I guess it'll be one giant experiment. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see where Overbay ends up, now that Boston and NY picked up 1-bag backups. Maybe Tampa, Chicago, or San Fran?

Not surprised, defensively he's great, offensively I think I can swing a faster bat. He's painful to watch at the plate.

[nano]

it wouldn't shock me if NYY goes for Overbay... Berkman is just awful at first since he joined the team

[trellaine201]

I guess we won't get much for him? A few weeks of service for ?

[La Fleur]

Yea, looks like Purcey's on the DL . . . Overbay's a gem at first, Lind's too non-chalant. O-bay wouldn't have screwed that up. Hopefully nothing major for Purcey as he's been quite good in his limited appearances. Hopefully, Snider picks things up . . . he's k'ing too much in big pressure situations, but he needs to tough out those at bats and get playing time to get better.

[White Comet]

Only if I could put my mlb the show '10 into the field, they'd be murdering all teams around the majors :P

[Psubs]

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=10798761

DOUCHE BAG!!! :lol:

They are splitting up. :lol:

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Houston-s-Foul-Ball-Couple-already-headed-for-?urn=mlb-262034

Though it was only a summer thang.

[djstiles]

Great come from behind victory in the 9th for the Jays last night and my Phillies had a sick comeback of their own! 8 runs in the last two innings capped off by a game winning hit by Ruiz!

[La Fleur]

They are splitting up. :lol:

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Houston-s-Foul-Ball-Couple-already-headed-for-?urn=mlb-262034

Though it was only a summer thang.

This is what it takes to make the Early Show these days?! It wasn't even all that entertaining, really. The guy didn't say much when the reporter asked him questions in the stadium and it's not exactly like he completely bailed out of the way and it hit her somewhere like the head. Really shocked this made much news, I guess the media is desperate for some cutesy news.

Anyways, Jays and LAA's tonight. Let's rock this West Coast shizz boys.

[Skip2MyLou]

lmao at the run down disaster between Encarnacion and Escobar with Mathis on base.
E5 throws a straight strike at Escobar, expecting him to catch it and then Escobar throws a straight strike back at him LOL.

[White Comet]

Good game. 3-0 Jays. Great effort by Scrabble! Man, what a difference Molina makes behind the plate calling the game, dude just spun a gem!

Boston unable to hold a 6 run lead. Slugfest down there but Josh Hamilton had a heck of a game (going 4-5) and making the highlight reel.

Tampa lost to the sizzling O's and Yankees losing vs. Royals. Jays are only 8 back of the wildcard now.

[trellaine201]

lmao at the run down disaster between Encarnacion and Escobar with Mathis on base.
E5 throws a straight strike at Escobar, expecting him to catch it and then Escobar throws a straight strike back at him LOL.

Hmmm can I find this on youtube? It sounds quite funny.

[Skip2MyLou]

Hmmm can I find this on youtube? It sounds quite funny.

I can't find it on youtube, maybe watch the highlights of the game and they might show it?
It was pretty funny, i was like wtf is he doing?

[tighty whities]

Jays and Romero reach agreement on a contract for $30.1 over 5 years (2011-2015)

[Maxman]

Jays and Romero reach agreement on a contract for $30.1 over 5 years (2011-2015)

Most likely for 3.5 years ---- you have to consider the standard Blue Jays / Tommy John surgery. He should be due next year! Cecil the following year, followed by RZep.

[Jimboski]

Games starting soon against the Angels, Go Jays!

[Skip2MyLou]

Games starting soon against the Angels, Go Jays!

I can't even watch it, cause of that damn Sportsnet One!



As part of the contract, Romero has donated $100,000 to the JaysCare foundation.

Good man.

[Jimboski]

I can't even watch it, cause of that damn Sportsnet One!



As part of the contract, Romero has donated $100,000 to the JaysCare foundation.

Good man.

Ooh, Totally forgot about that.

Luckily I have the channel so I can still watch It, Hah!

[ItechJester]

I can't even watch it, cause of that damn Sportsnet One!



As part of the contract, Romero has donated $100,000 to the JaysCare foundation.

Good man.

LOL!!!! the contract is wroth 30.1 million........... Now I know why they added that extra 0.1 mil....

[Jimboski]

LOL!!!! the contract is wroth 30.1 million........... Now I know why they added that extra 0.1 mil....

Lol, I didn't realize that.

Good Eye!

[Manatus]

Lol, I didn't realize that.

Good Eye!

Reminds me of the Ian White $2,999,995 Calgary contract, did they "treat" him to lunch at McDonalds or something? :lol:

Good that Romero is locked up though.

[White Comet]

Good sign. Contract is comparable to Jon Lester and Yovani Gallardo.

As for the Jay's game tonight, pretty much "zzz" after the 3rd inning as it seems like they were in a hurry to get out of the ballpark. Cecil just didn't have it tonight (hope its just over-rested vs. injury), everything was up.

[tighty whities]

Good sign. Contract is comparable to Jon Lester and Yovani Gallardo.

As for the Jay's game tonight, pretty much "zzz" after the 3rd inning as it seems like they were in a hurry to get out of the ballpark. Cecil just didn't have it tonight (hope its just over-rested vs. injury), everything was up.


Lester is a stud, would take him any day over Romero

[trellaine201]

Lester is a stud, would take him any day over Romero

No kidding. Lester has been very, very good/consistent. In my opinion, too much money on someone really unproven. (Romero)

[tighty whities]

Most likely for 3.5 years ---- you have to consider the standard Blue Jays / Tommy John surgery. He should be due next year! Cecil the following year, followed by RZep.

haha, good point.

Funny how a few years ago the Jays fans were blasting the Jays wondering why they picked him over Tulowitzki, now they're all on the Romero bandwagon.

[Maxman]

haha, good point.

Funny how a few years ago the Jays fans were blasting the Jays wondering why they picked him over Tulowitzki, now they're all on the Romero bandwagon.


Romero is a good 2 or a really good 3... imagine having Halladay as 1, Marcum 2, Romero 3 - thats a pretty good rotation. I don't think Romero is a 1 or 2 right now, but could be if he stays healthy and can start keeping his pitches down a little more consistently. He seems to be a battler who wants the ball - which I think is a good sign. Keep in mind, he's only 9-7 right now - on pace for 13-14 wins!

I'd probably rather have Tulo than Romero - but only if I could afford to buy a decent rotation or keep guys like Halladay. If you can't keep Halladay, I'd take Romero over Tulo.

Hopefully, I am wrong and he doesn't end up with TJ surgery!

[La Fleur]

Tulo would have been great, but the Jays have had a string of healthy, productive SS the last few years, so not a big deal in retrospect. Will take pitching over SS most any day.

[White Comet]

No kidding. Lester has been very, very good/consistent. In my opinion, too much money on someone really unproven. (Romero)

Indeed Lester has been epic. But then again, Lester debuted in late 2007 while Romero joined Toronto in 2008. Give Romero a year or so and see what happens.

Oh, Travis Snider is sitting again today vs. the Angels. GG

[Skip2MyLou]

Indeed Lester has been epic. But then again, Lester debuted in late 2007 while Romero joined Toronto in 2008. Give Romero a year or so and see what happens.

Oh, Travis Snider is sitting again today vs. the Angels. GG

Snider is sitting, but Arencibia is playing :D


On a side note, Man...Jacoby Ellsbury just cannot catch a break. He's on the DL for the 3rd time this season. Same rib injury which was caused by crashing into his teammate the first time.

[canabiz]

The Jays is having trouble hitting with runners in scoring positions.

The highest paid player on the team struck out on 3 pitches :twisted:

[La Fleur]

Snider is sitting, but Arencibia is playing :D


On a side note, Man...Jacoby Ellsbury just cannot catch a break. He's on the DL for the 3rd time this season. Same rib injury which was caused by crashing into his teammate the first time.

Yea, Beltre . . . at least Beltre's put up the #s to account for his run in, even though we all know it's cause it's a contract year for him. But, still, how the hell are the scrubsox still doing so well with such a depleted team? Crazy.

Bautista needs a jack in this one to keep the homer steak alive.

[tighty whities]

Romero is a good 2 or a really good 3... imagine having Halladay as 1, Marcum 2, Romero 3 - thats a pretty good rotation. I don't think Romero is a 1 or 2 right now, but could be if he stays healthy and can start keeping his pitches down a little more consistently. He seems to be a battler who wants the ball - which I think is a good sign. Keep in mind, he's only 9-7 right now - on pace for 13-14 wins!

I'd probably rather have Tulo than Romero - but only if I could afford to buy a decent rotation or keep guys like Halladay. If you can't keep Halladay, I'd take Romero over Tulo.

Hopefully, I am wrong and he doesn't end up with TJ surgery!

I agree, I would rather have a power hitting shortstop with strong defense anyday over a pitcher that may become a 2 or even a 1, but isn't an ace.


Tulo would have been great, but the Jays have had a string of healthy, productive SS the last few years, so not a big deal in retrospect. Will take pitching over SS most any day.

I would agree if Romero was an ace calibur pitcher like Halladay/Lester/Buchholz, etc.



Indeed Lester has been epic. But then again, Lester debuted in late 2007 while Romero joined Toronto in 2008. Give Romero a year or so and see what happens.

Oh, Travis Snider is sitting again today vs. the Angels. GG

Lester actually debuted in 2006 and his development was pushed back ~2 years as he was diagnosed/treated for cancer in 2006/2007 and wasn't back to full strength until after the 2008 season began.

Lester is a workhorse and has shown he can win when it counts (won the clinching game of the WS) and on the big stage. Lester is a true ace... has 2 plus pitches, and 2 others that are rated plus plus.

Romero's stuff doesn't even compare, with only 1 plus plus pitch.

there's a reason why Boston refused to include Lester in a trade for Santana (as well as refusing to trade Buchholz straight up for Halladay).

[Beeg]

The Jays is having trouble hitting with runners in scoring positions.

The highest paid player on the team struck out on 3 pitches :twisted:

A common occurrence with him.

[tighty whities]

Yea, Beltre . . . at least Beltre's put up the #s to account for his run in, even though we all know it's cause it's a contract year for him. But, still, how the hell are the scrubsox still doing so well with such a depleted team? Crazy.

Bautista needs a jack in this one to keep the homer steak alive.

Deep system, shrewd moves... MacDonald, Kalish, Nava and earlier in the season - Hermida. Bill Hall stepped it up big time as well :D

[canabiz]

For the folks who are high on Troy Tulowitzki, keep in mind that he has called Coors Field his home ballpark since he started his big league debut. As you all know, Coors is a hitters' ballpark and is consistently ranked as the top ballpark for runs produced.

Is Troy a good hitter? I think his numbers have spoken volume so far. Are his numbers skewed by a good # of at bats in hitter-friendly Coors? I think it needs to be taken into consideration.

[Skip2MyLou]

Damn, thats the end of Bautista's homerun streak.
Still very, very impressive. 11 straight series.

[tighty whities]

For the folks who are high on Troy Tulowitzki, keep in mind that he has called Coors Field his home ballpark since he started his big league debut. As you all know, Coors is a hitters' ballpark and is consistently ranked as the top ballpark for runs produced.

Is Troy a good hitter? I think his numbers have spoken volume so far. Are his numbers skewed by a good # of at bats in hitter-friendly Coors? I think it needs to be taken into consideration.

It's a factor, but take his stats away from Coors and he still gets on base and puts up power numbers with strong defense

[canabiz]

It's a factor, but take his stats away from Coors and he still gets on base and puts up power numbers with strong defense

I don't mean to go back and forth for a non-Jay player but if you look up his career stats, you will see quite a difference for home and away. 4 years and close to 1,000 ABs either way so I consider that a pretty decent sample size.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=tulowtr01&year=Career&t=b

I guess my points is there are a lot of whatifs scenario. He may not be that successful in a Jays uniform and under different coaching. Ricky may not be successful in Coors Field either. Hindsight is 20/20...we have to work with what we have.

[tighty whities]

I don't mean to go back and forth for a non-Jay player but if you look up his career stats, you will see quite a difference for home and away. 4 years and close to 1,000 ABs either way so I consider that a pretty decent sample size.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=tulowtr01&year=Career&t=b

I guess my points is there are a lot of whatifs scenario. He may not be that successful in a Jays uniform and under different coaching. Ricky may not be successful in Coors Field either. Hindsight is 20/20...we have to work with what we have.


My point exactly...


haha, good point.

Funny how a few years ago the Jays fans were blasting the Jays wondering why they picked him over Tulowitzki, now they're all on the Romero bandwagon.

but even with a difference in splits, still strong numbers

[La Fleur]

Lest(er)we all forget, SS is also a very thin position in terms of offense. Tulo is definitely one of the creams of the crop, mixing power, average and good defense. More of a gamble than a pitcher with good stuff - take those wins, even if he doesn't become a a true #1 ace. Look at Carpenter for example . . . took him a while to blossom and some don't consider him a #1 ace, but he puts up as good of #s to stay within earshot of Cy Young contention. He's not quite as good as Waino, but I'll take those stats any day - 10+ wins, good ERA, decent innings. Really a moot point I think - not like we're comparing McGowan or Litsch to Lester or Tulo. Romero has done well enough.

[La Fleur]

Jays win! Another series victory. Hopefully, they can shut down the A's and build a nice cushion for the inevitable tough series against Tampa and NY coming up.

[Jimboski]

Jays win! Another series victory. Hopefully, they can shut down the A's and build a nice cushion for the inevitable tough series against Tampa and NY coming up.

Yup!

We swept Tampa In the previous series we faced them I think, So we can clearly do It again!

[Maxman]

Angels pitcher walks the bases loaded - and - wait for it.... wait for it.... Vernon Wells swings at the first pitch and pops up! Does Cito not have a take sign?

The Jays need to get rid of Wells any way possible... buy him out for gawd's sake! There is no way you can build a winning team with a guy like that batting in the 4 spot. The Yanks and RSox would never take him - they want players that will battle and get deep into a count. I wonder how many times Wells has seen more than 3 pitches in an AB!

Just hate the guy!

[White Comet]

Angels pitcher walks the bases loaded - and - wait for it.... wait for it.... Vernon Wells swings at the first pitch and pops up! Does Cito not have a take sign?

The Jays need to get rid of Wells any way possible... buy him out for gawd's sake! There is no way you can build a winning team with a guy like that batting in the 4 spot. The Yanks and RSox would never take him - they want players that will battle and get deep into a count. I wonder how many times Wells has seen more than 3 pitches in an AB!

Just hate the guy!

Correction, Wells does not swing at the first pitch. It was an inside strike. I think he swung at the second pitch lol

[carmaster]

Wells has gone ice cold since the all-star break.

[Shimso]

Wells has gone ice cold since the all-star break.

the curse of the hr derby strikes again?

good thing bautista was screwed out of an invitation there

[Skip2MyLou]

Let us not forget, it was Vernon's first pitch swinging double against Papelbon, that allowed us to comeback and walk off the Red Sox on Thursday.
First pitch Papelbon comes in and makes, and Wells hits a double off him.

[inntents]

Let us not forget, it was Vernon's first pitch swinging double against Papelbon, that allowed us to comeback and walk off the Red Sox on Thursday.
First pitch Papelbon comes in and makes, and Wells hits a double off him.

Ya, that's the first thought that popped into my mind when I read the (well-deserved) Wells-bashing. He really seems to be making up his mind to swing before the ball leaves the pitcher's hand, and if it happens to be pitched where he swings (Papelbon's pitch), then he gets a hit! More often than not, lately, he seems to miss, though. Opposition knows enough not to give him anything good on first pitch.
Until he starts showing that he's willing or able to adjust to pitches up in the zone, or to go with the outside pitch to the opposite field, he's just going to get pounded there and keep whiffing and popping up.
Lind was getting killed the same way for most of the year, but he's starting to make better adjustments and getting more hits up the middle and to the opposite field.

On a side note, I didn't even really see Papelbon's first pitch to Vernon, as we were AT the game. That was the best game I've been to at RC in years. It was a fairly lively crowd of 36K, but before the ninth, I was thinking what a dud of a game it was, and not blaming the 6-10K who headed out early. We usually stay to the bitter end though, and it was the first game for our youngest, so we stuck it out, and awesome that we did! In the ninth, it was great to see everyone standing and yelling and clapping with every pitch (you know, those things that lots of other home crowds do all the time!) and cheering on the Jays to victory. We held our breath when Wise stole second, groaned when Snyder Kd, and when crazy when Lewis sac'd in Hill! :):):)
It sure would be nice if RC crowds were like that A LOT more often - large in number, really into the game at times other than the ninth, and much louder in vocal support all throughout the game - it makes the whole experience much more fun for everyone, players included!
GO JAYS!!!

[Madchester]

E5 made a timely error. And I don't mean it sarcastically - check the boxscore.

[Skip2MyLou]

Damn, Shawn Marcum with a no-hitter through 6, finally gets broken with a homerun.

And Bautista with his 2nd inside the park homerun!! Way to hustle!

[Psubs]

Marcum pitching well and the Yankees lost again.

If the Jays hold on, they will be 9 games out of the best record in baseball AND the wildcard with the Rays win.

[trellaine201]

The Oakland announcers said this was Marcum's first complete game in the majors??

[grappos13]

The Oakland announcers said this was Marcum's first complete game in the majors??

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7661/career;_ylt=ArFCyJS9nlcsg5Xnk.J14zGFCLcF

yup, they were right!

[La Fleur]

Marcum pitching well and the Yankees lost again.

If the Jays hold on, they will be 9 games out of the best record in baseball AND the wildcard with the Rays win.

Pretty sickening reading that and trying to grasp how they are not in the playoffs, yet the Cards have made it with some pretty sad-sack records the last few years playing in the crappy Central.

Big comeback for Tampa . . . looks like August is gonna be pretty grind it out for a lot of these teams, trading jabs back and forth. Does anyone think there is one team out there that'll make a NY Mets-esque implosion and drop out of the race or Rockies-like hot streak and rally into the playoffs?

[Skip2MyLou]

man, i hate this new sportsnet one, i don't get to watch the jays games now.
it's just like tsn2.

[nano]

its 2010 man get a cable box

[inntents]

its 2010 man get a cable box

According to Globe and Mail, only Rogers subscribers can get the new channel - no other cable companies. Nice stunt to pull half the games off of the networks many of us are already paying for and sticking them on a new channel that they're charging extra for!

But that's Robbers for ya, and reinforces, yet again, why I left them years ago and will NEVER go back, no matter how many "We miss you!" mailers they send me.........:mad:

[La Fleur]

Big game for the fighting Phils tonight against San Fran. With Utley returning, I think Philly's gonna make a huge run and make the playoffs this year. With Timmeh struggling on the mound, San Fran looks due for a big tank. San Diego is just defying all odds . . . Latos is a beast.

I was hoping the Marlins would go on a tear and make the playoffs, but that seems a big stretch now. Reds also seem due for a tank - too much pitching inconsistency. Pujols is going yard just about every day now and their pitching staff is phenomenal, they should be about ready to lock down the central division.

AL East will be painfully predictable: NY, Tampa/BOS, Minny . . .and surprise contender Texas.

[La Fleur]

Oh man, Bautista's stache is awesome.

[rfd1234567890]

man, i hate this new sportsnet one, i don't get to watch the jays games now.
it's just like tsn2.

I've been trying to find which channel the games is on...its usually on 502 but can't find it??? and i notice it says you have to call and subscribe???

what...we have to pay to watch the jays now???
HELP NE1??? which channel are they on????

[Beeg]

I like these Jays.

And Toronto is a better city with a great Jays team.

AA needs to pull a couple of good moves this winter...and....wildcard.

[grappos13]

I've been trying to find which channel the games is on...its usually on 502 but can't find it??? and i notice it says you have to call and subscribe???

what...we have to pay to watch the jays now???
HELP NE1??? which channel are they on????

its on Sportsnet ONE.. a new channel... 394 for regular and 395 for HD

[inntents]

I've been trying to find which channel the games is on...its usually on 502 but can't find it??? and i notice it says you have to call and subscribe???

what...we have to pay to watch the jays now???
HELP NE1??? which channel are they on????


its on Sportsnet ONE.. a new channel... 394 for regular and 395 for HD

Only available for those with Robber's Cable - not BHell, Cogeco, Shaw, former StarChoice, etc.

Funny how the other Sportsnet channels had "Subscribe Now", "Call Your Provider" flashing on the screen before the game, knowing full well no other providers have bought the rights to carry the new channel. They're just hoping that enough BHell, et al, customers will pester their own cable providers to pick up the new channel so that the other cable companies will pay Robber's for their new Sportsnet One. Utter bullskip :mad:

[inntents]

... and get used to it - well over half of the remaining Jays games this year are on the new Sportsnet ONE, and off of the channels you've been paying for all season long.

[trellaine201]

Just curious as I am not a Robbers customer either phone nor TV but is Sportsnet One like TSN2? Endless re-runs/snooker/poker etc etc.

It's now wonder I don't sub to Cdn providers. Nothing but trash, never add anything worthwhile in my opinion.

I would even pay if they added anything worthwhile. I blame the CRTC and the old cronies that run it.

[Psubs]

I've been trying to find which channel the games is on...its usually on 502 but can't find it??? and i notice it says you have to call and subscribe???

what...we have to pay to watch the jays now???
HELP NE1??? which channel are they on????

584

Dang, Aaron Hill does good with the 2 out double and scores on the Overbay double but throws away the 2nd part of a double-play. :cry:

[trellaine201]

Not a well played game by the Jays, a few blunders and an error by Snider. They just don't look on the ball, no pun intended.

[La Fleur]

Just curious as I am not a Robbers customer either phone nor TV but is Sportsnet One like TSN2? Endless re-runs/snooker/poker etc etc.

It's now wonder I don't sub to Cdn providers. Nothing but trash, never add anything worthwhile in my opinion.

I would even pay if they added anything worthwhile. I blame the CRTC and the old cronies that run it.

There was a bunch of Premiereship Soccer on after the Jays game yesterday night, so the channel might be pretty decent. Probably will have some exclusive Raptors games I imagine. Cant stand all the poker on tv these days.

Awful game by the Jays . . . goes to show you gotta win some games with small ball, which Cito refuses to do. Steal some friggin bases already. Guys can't hit homers every game.

[nano]

CTVglobmedia did the exact same thing to Rogers customers 2 yrs ago with TSN2... Rogers customers went without tsn2 for almost a year. when i saw tsn2 showing the Sunday night baseball games i knew something was fishy. Don't be stunned if the world series ends up being carried on sportsnet one its apparently the sportsnet's national channel

[White Comet]

Horrible game. Bautista looked horrible with that shave

[Skip2MyLou]

damn, nearly a comeback in the 9th.
That ball on the first base line looked fair for sure, but was called foul.
Why was Jansen pitching in the bottom 9th for us, I just do not understand. why not camp or downs?

[White Comet]

LOL, there goes Cito and his loyalty to veterans. Molina with another passed ball and Janssen in the 9th...really? I think Downs pitched already and gave up a HR to Crisp.

[La Fleur]

Once again I ask, why no small ball. Come on Cito, you stubborn mule. We literally lost a west coast series to Coco F'ing Crisp!!

[White Comet]

Once again I ask, why no small ball. Come on Cito, you stubborn mule. We literally lost a west coast series to Coco F'ing Crisp!!

Cito:"Sorry bro, no one really knows how to bunt except for Escobar" I made that up lol.

But we did see Snider and Hill trying to bunt this season and it was just "Fail". Bautista is looking overmatched with fastballs, I'm wondering if he's thinking too much about off-speed stuff, no way you can't catch up to a 86-91mph fastball in the zone.

1 thing that really irked me is their approach in the at-bat is really bad, no adjustments what-so-ever. You see Boston changing their approach quickly after 1 time through the line-up last time vs. Toronto, but our hitters chose to stay with something that clearly didn't work, swinging at the curveball over and over again down in the dirt. They said Gio was great, but I think its more like our hitters made him look great.

Hopefully we could win some games at Fenway, though I don't really like our chances there. Lester would probably own us the first game too :(

[La Fleur]

Cito:"Sorry bro, no one really knows how to bunt except for Escobar" I made that up lol.

But we did see Snider and Hill trying to bunt this season and it was just "Fail". Bautista is looking overmatched with fastballs, I'm wondering if he's thinking too much about off-speed stuff, no way you can't catch up to a 86-91mph fastball in the zone.

1 thing that really irked me is their approach in the at-bat is really bad, no adjustments what-so-ever. You see Boston changing their approach quickly after 1 time through the line-up last time vs. Toronto, but our hitters chose to stay with something that clearly didn't work, swinging at the curveball over and over again down in the dirt. They said Gio was great, but I think its more like our hitters made him look great.

Hopefully we could win some games at Fenway, though I don't really like our chances there. Lester would probably own us the first game too :(

Yea, that's what I mean by small ball - not just bunting, but adjust at the plate. If they can't hit the fastballs, take a different approach and try to slice the offspeed stuff into a gap. Doesn't have to always be homers. Also, very little hit and run or base stealing. I know that's not their forte, but a team like Boston has really done well mixing it up adding HR power with some speed on the basepaths to remain relevant in the playoff picture.

I hope the Jays sweep the Sox. Can't stand to see them get creamed again by a bunch of old-timers like Papi and Lowell and some super scrubs like Hall and Lowrie.

[Skip2MyLou]

DAMN, Blue Jays send 9 batters to the plate in the 1st inning.
5-0 Lead to start the game.
Cecil just needs to pitch a good game and we should win this.

[Jimboski]

DAMN, Blue Jays send 9 batters to the plate in the 1st inning.
5-0 Lead to start the game.
Cecil just needs to pitch a good game and we should win this.

Hey, You finally got Sportsnet one?

Or are you looking at the boxscores on MLB.com?

[Maxman]

Hey, You finally got Sportsnet one?

Or are you looking at the boxscores on MLB.com?

Finally, a game on Sportsnet main stations! I'll tell you, if they keep restricting this many games, I'm getting rid of my cell phones. We can't even get SN1 up here because Rogers has ZERO service in the area... becoming another Bell!

Nice to see 5 runs in first, but not nice to watch Wells jog down to first in a double play!

TWO 3R dingers for Overbay - opposite field! Yee hah! Either trade him or re-sign him. Guessing Boston will make an offer before the games over!

[Skip2MyLou]

Hey, You finally got Sportsnet one?

Or are you looking at the boxscores on MLB.com?

It's on normal Sportsnet, thank god. I hope the whole series is on Sportsnet and not Sportsnet One.

And WOAH NELLY, Overbay with TWO 3 Run Homeruns already.
Lester chased out of the game. WOOOOHOOO, after 14 scoreless innings against the Jays.
2+ IP, 9ER

[Jimboski]

Finally, a game on Sportsnet main stations! I'll tell you, if they keep restricting this many games, I'm getting rid of my cell phones. We can't even get SN1 up here because Rogers has ZERO service in the area... becoming another Bell!

Nice to see 5 runs in first, but not nice to watch Wells jog down to first in a double play!

TWO 3R dingers for Overbay - opposite field! Yee hah! Either trade him or re-sign him. Guessing Boston will make an offer before the games over!

Oh, I see, That explains why Skip can watch the game :D. It's not Rogers, It's Robbers btw!

Haha Boston probably will!

[La Fleur]

Total annhilation of those Bostards!!! Overbay hit it in the exact same spot, just one row further up the 2nd time. Good to see Buck back and swinging well . . . he did well in rehab, so hopefully his hot bat continues.

[Jimboski]

It's on normal Sportsnet, thank god. I hope the whole series is on Sportsnet and not Sportsnet One.

And WOAH NELLY, Overbay with TWO 3 Run Homeruns already.
Lester chased out of the game. WOOOOHOOO, after 14 scoreless innings against the Jays.
2+ IP, 9ER

I see what Overbay's doing!

He's giving Boston a good impression by hitting 2 HR's so far -- Netting him a higher salary that's If he decides to join Boston :D!

I swear, If they Jays give up this game..

[Maxman]

Sam Cosentino just said "second base-hole!" What a k-nob!

[Skip2MyLou]

Damn, Johnny Mac getting in on the action with a 3 Run Homerun of his own!
14-0

Buck: Or-TIZ gets under this one.
lol.

[Manatus]

Man, when Johnny Mac hits a homer against you, you know it's not your night.

Boston really taking it in the "second base-hole" tonight.

[dragon_drift]

woot! 16-2 Jays

[Skip2MyLou]

Sam Cosentino just said "second base-hole!" What a k-nob!

lol isn't the second base hole, the whole at second? when the shortstop and 2nd basemen are playing closer to the corners? hence, there's a second base hole...

[Jimboski]

woot! 16-2 Jays

Yeah, The Jays roflstomped Boston :D!

[Maxman]

lol isn't the second base hole, the whole at second? when the shortstop and 2nd basemen are playing closer to the corners? hence, there's a second base hole...

He was trying to refer to playing second base - as in - he's batting in the second base spot. He wasn't saying anything technical - and it would be the hole between second and first or second and short.

If Rogers ever sinks so low as to have a broadcast team of Cosentino, Warren Sawkiw, and Jamie Campbell - it will be just one Fergie Oliver away from the horseman of the apocolypse!

[White Comet]

better yet, watch the game on TV with Fan590 crew doing the broadcast on the radio :D

Awesome game tonight, finally touched up Lester. Looking forward to winning the series.

[Skip2MyLou]

He was trying to refer to playing second base - as in - he's batting in the second base spot. He wasn't saying anything technical - and it would be the hole between second and first or second and short.

If Rogers ever sinks so low as to have a broadcast team of Cosentino, Warren Sawkiw, and Jamie Campbell - it will be just one Fergie Oliver away from the horseman of the apocolypse!

ooh, i must've missed that lol.

[Maxman]

ooh, i must've missed that lol.

The funniest part was he knew what he said was stupid, and he kind of paused and lost track of what he was saying. He seems like a good guy - not arrogant like Jamie Campbell - I'm just not sure he's cut out for play-by-play in baseball.

[djstiles]

Great game last night for the Jays - hope they can do the same against Dice K today! Great game by Overbay! It was funny when Escobar thought his 2 run double was going to be a home run when it left his bat.

Nice to see Halladay get his 6th win in a row last night for the Phils. Too bad the run support of the Phillies has been lacking for Halladay and Hamels so much this season. Doc should already be at 20 wins and Hamels should have alteast 3-4 more then he does

[Skip2MyLou]

Let's hope Romero finally has a good game against the Red Sox.
He's always struggled against them this year, hasn't had a good start yet.

[La Fleur]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
I hate these scrubsox. F'ing Jays can't ever capitalize. Cito once again with shite management - no basestealing, no hit and run, nothing. Another throwaway game.

[White Comet]

Jed Lowrie just owns the Blue Jays. Can't wait till new manager comes in next year. Need to change tactics here. I missed the part where Snider got to 2nd on an error in the 10th with no outs, how did he NOT score? That's mind boggling

[heimdal]

Jed Lowrie just owns the Blue Jays. Can't wait till new manager comes in next year. Need to change tactics here. I missed the part where Snider got to 2nd on an error in the 10th with no outs, how did he NOT score? That's mind boggling

Sounds like Cito should've sac bunt + sac fly. No surprise though, they never play small ball.

[trellaine201]

Just heard on a cinci broadcast that the Yankees have spent $2 billion dollars on payroll since 2000 and ONLY ONE world series championship. Wow. Astounding numbers.

[Maxman]

I missed the part where Snider got to 2nd on an error in the 10th with no outs, how did he NOT score? That's mind boggling

Fielders choice (ground ball right at second base catching Sni9der in a run-down), followed by the typical Jays double play.

Snider should have been bunted to third - that is an absolute no brainer. If Cito does not expect players to bunt, then says that they can't, how does he ever expect them to develop? He is clearly the wrong manager for a developing team and should be shown the door. This team is full of flaws, but they keep getting by with 3-run homers!

I had a though while watching last nights game.... I wonder if Cito, knowing they wouldn't make the playoffs, and that he won't be manager next year - just told the players - Go swing for the fences and hit home runs, its what will draw fans to the park?

Good luck to the next manager when he inherits this bunch!

[djstiles]

Strasburg probably headed to DL again. Not good. Hope injury doesnt keep re-occuring, will be another Mark Prior.

Hope the rain delay doesnt last forever, I'd like to see Marcum and the Jays destroy the red sox and Clay today.

Oswalt on the mound for the Phillies vs Nationals today, they ebat him 8-1 in his first start as a Phillie. Nice to get Howard back from the DL in time for end of August and Sept.

[the_fm]

Strasburg probably headed to DL again. Not good. Hope injury doesnt keep re-occuring, will be another Mark Prior.

he needs to change his delivery mechanics otherwise, he's done in a couple of years

[Skip2MyLou]

Jed Lowrie just owns the Blue Jays. Can't wait till new manager comes in next year. Need to change tactics here. I missed the part where Snider got to 2nd on an error in the 10th with no outs, how did he NOT score? That's mind boggling

This. AND I fail to see why Cito consistently puts out Casey Janssen in key situations, when the guy clearly cannot pitch in close game situations.
Why did he not bring out Kevin Gregg like the red sox did with Papelbon.
Janssen and Tallet need to go, they should only pitch in blowout situations.

[canabiz]

Jays is fading again. The offense seems non-existent although to their credit, they have been facing quality starters.

Why is light-hitting Johnny Mac playing these games? Nice guy but he has been a bench-warmer for most of his big-league career for a reason. Did Hill got benched or Cito just wanted to shake things up?

[Psubs]

Jays get the leadoff man on in all 5 innings and can't score. :mad:

Marcum should just walk Bill Hall, now 3 for 4 with 3 hr's. :cry:

[inntents]

Why is light-hitting Johnny Mac playing these games? Nice guy but he has been a bench-warmer for most of his big-league career for a reason. Did Hill got benched or Cito just wanted to shake things up?

Hill is sitting as part of Cito's rotating "day off" plan for the starters, from which Verna Wells seems to be exempt for some reason:mad:

LOL at the idjuts (Molina, Lewis, et al), down by 5 in the ninth, swinging from the heels and trying to hit 6-run homers!

Cripes almighty, please move Cito to the front office already..........

[White Comet]

lol Vernon. Didn't Wilner mentioned that he's hitting .223avg since June 6th or something on the radio and no day off aside from his dislocated toe? Yet he's still in the lineup batting 4th day-in day-out. Go figure.

I am really hoping that Cito didn't screw some hitters over like Aaron Hill and Adam Lind and Snider, making them pull happy always looking for HRs. Remember Tony Batista back in 2000 with his 44HR monster season? Well, he's fallen off the cliff after that year and never recovered.

[canabiz]

lol Vernon. Didn't Wilner mentioned that he's hitting .223avg since June 6th or something on the radio and no day off aside from his dislocated toe? Yet he's still in the lineup batting 4th day-in day-out. Go figure.

I am really hoping that Cito didn't screw some hitters over like Aaron Hill and Adam Lind and Snider, making them pull happy always looking for HRs. Remember Tony Batista back in 2000 with his 44HR monster season? Well, he's fallen off the cliff after that year and never recovered.

Tony did go on to have a few more productive seasons with the Jays and the Orioles. He was hurt for a bit though. He remains one of my favorite Jays of all time with his gregarious and laid-back nature. He can also play many positions as well and has a pretty sweet swing.

[inntents]

Tony did go on to have a few more productive seasons with the Jays and the Orioles. He was hurt for a bit though. He remains one of my favorite Jays of all time with his gregarious and laid-back nature. He can also play many positions as well and has a pretty sweet swing.

Didn't he also donate some crazy percentage (10%, maybe?) of his paycheques to local charities while he was here, and then even for some time after he left? I'm sure I remember hearing or reading about that.

[trellaine201]

lol Vernon. Didn't Wilner mentioned that he's hitting .223avg since June 6th or something on the radio and no day off aside from his dislocated toe? Yet he's still in the lineup batting 4th day-in day-out. Go figure.

I am really hoping that Cito didn't screw some hitters over like Aaron Hill and Adam Lind and Snider, making them pull happy always looking for HRs. Remember Tony Batista back in 2000 with his 44HR monster season? Well, he's fallen off the cliff after that year and never recovered.

I was just pondering Wells offensive numbers since the all star break? Anybody know? I sure haven't seen many HR in the boxscores or LIVE and I watch most of their games. What a waste of money!!! And the worst part is were stuck with him :( and even worse his contract!!

[Manatus]

I was just pondering Wells offensive numbers since the all star break? Anybody know? I sure haven't seen many HR in the boxscores or LIVE and I watch most of their games. What a waste of money!!! And the worst part is were stuck with him :( and even worse his contract!!

Imagine how it would look if there was a salary cap...

[trellaine201]

Imagine how it would look if there was a salary cap...

Too bad he hasn't lived up to anything close to his salary. Horrible contract with his best yrs behind him.

[Beeg]

Doc and his wins sure would look good for the Jays now.

[Psubs]

Doc and his wins sure would look good for the Jays now.

Didn't think that they could sign A-Gon and flip him for Escobar and Bautista to have a breakout year. Buck and Molina to also have career years. The kids that they got back will look good in a year or two. Also the pitching staff should be more mature in a year or so.

They would be ahead of Boston and maybe only 3-4 games behind top spot. Still fighting for playoffs and not in.

Doc
Romero
Marcum
Morrow
Cecil

Wow! Damn! lol

Anyways, I have faith in AA that things will be good for the future.

[tighty whities]

Well even with Halladay, if Boston didn't lose Ellsbury (basically the whole season), Pedroia, Youkilis, Beckett, Cameron, Martinez, Vartitek, Hermida, Lowrie for chunks of the season.. the BJs would be trailing the Red Sox by more than 6 games.

[inntents]

Doc and his wins sure would look good for the Jays now.


No way you can make that kind of a stretch. Everything changes if they had kept Halladay - the clubhouse atmosphere and relationships, other pitchers' mindsets, possibly management's handling of the staff, etc. IIRC, a few Jays players (Marcum comes to mind?) said that the clubhouse loosened up A LOT once Roy left, because that's just the effect his intensity had on the younger guys there. Not a shot at Roy, that's just the way he was and it worked for him for many years. But not everyone works/plays as well in such a straitlaced atmosphere. Also, a team can subconsciously come to depend on a superstar to "carry the load" and not perform up to their potential.

:rolleyes: I know it's bad form to quote yourself, but I didn't feel like re-typing this.

If Halladay stays, this team is totally different, both in terms of who's on the field, as Psubs wrote, and in frame of mind of players and management. For all we know, Jays could have been a lot closer to the O's then the Yanks.

[skyblue12]

I was just pondering Wells offensive numbers since the all star break? Anybody know? I sure haven't seen many HR in the boxscores or LIVE and I watch most of their games. What a waste of money!!! And the worst part is were stuck with him :( and even worse his contract!!

pre-allstar:
87 G
.265
19 HR
49 RBI
46 R

post-allstar:
33 G
.272
3 HR
11 RBI
15 R

you can check out more of his stats here: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6327/splits;_ylt=AmBVvl48ENTm.mHTF3Dc4T.FCLcF

[Maxman]

pre-allstar:
87 G
.265
19 HR
49 RBI
46 R

post-allstar:
33 G
.272
3 HR
11 RBI
15 R

you can check out more of his stats here: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6327/splits;_ylt=AmBVvl48ENTm.mHTF3Dc4T.FCLcF


Those numbers can't be right. Check out http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=wellsve01&year=&t=b for his month-by-month splits. They also seem to have the wrong numbers for 1 and 2 halves - but the month by month - there is no way he's hitting .272 in the last 33 games.

April/March = .337, 8HR, 16RBI
May = .278, 5HR, 20RBI
June = .240, 6HR, 11RBI
July = .236, 1HR, 8RBI
Aug = .235, 2HR, 5RBI

Batting .212 vs. lefties, yet Overbay and Lind get benched against lefties! Hitting .224 on the road!

Hititng .213 with RISP and they keep him in the clean-up spot!

Batting .218 vs Red Sox
Batting .235 vs Yanks
Batting .222 vs Tampa Bay

He had two good months and everyone thought VW was back. Well, the real VW is definitely back. I hope they buy him out - cut him a cheque for $100 million, throw in a cell phone, and get his useless a$$ out of town!

If any of the young players on the team look at him as the leader - this teams in trouble. Watch the Yanks and Sox work a count, make pitchers throw deep into counts, get into the bullpen in 5-6 innings. Then watch VW swing away and pop up!

[Havok22]

Those numbers can't be right. Check out http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=wellsve01&year=&t=b for his month-by-month splits. They also seem to have the wrong numbers for 1 and 2 halves - but the month by month - there is no way he's hitting .272 in the last 33 games.

April/March = .337, 8HR, 16RBI
May = .278, 5HR, 20RBI
June = .240, 6HR, 11RBI
July = .236, 1HR, 8RBI
Aug = .235, 2HR, 5RBI

Batting .212 vs. lefties, yet Overbay and Lind get benched against lefties! Hitting .224 on the road!

Hititng .213 with RISP and they keep him in the clean-up spot!

Batting .218 vs Red Sox
Batting .235 vs Yanks
Batting .222 vs Tampa Bay

He had two good months and everyone thought VW was back. Well, the real VW is definitely back. I hope they buy him out - cut him a cheque for $100 million, throw in a cell phone, and get his useless a$$ out of town!

If any of the young players on the team look at him as the leader - this teams in trouble. Watch the Yanks and Sox work a count, make pitchers throw deep into counts, get into the bullpen in 5-6 innings. Then watch VW swing away and pop up!


Lets Buy out Vernon Wells! What a wonderful Idea! Good Grief. I take that as sarcasm?

[Maxman]

Lets Buy out Vernon Wells! What a wonderful Idea! Good Grief. I take that as sarcasm?

Not sarcasm. I think as long as he is part of the team - and deemed the leader - you will continue to see selfish play from him, and others. His attitude - laissez faire - is contagious. He has to go to allow the younger players to develop! As long as his $20 million (oops $25 million) salary is here, the manager will be obligated to play him, and keep him batting up in the order! He HAS to go for the team to start over! I don't care what it costs Rogers to get rid of him - just long term, they are better off without him in the clubhouse and on the field jogging after fly balls!

[trellaine201]

Not sarcasm. I think as long as he is part of the team - and deemed the leader - you will continue to see selfish play from him, and others. His attitude - laissez faire - is contagious. He has to go to allow the younger players to develop! As long as his $20 million (oops $25 million) salary is here, the manager will be obligated to play him, and keep him batting up in the order! He HAS to go for the team to start over! I don't care what it costs Rogers to get rid of him - just long term, they are better off without him in the clubhouse and on the field jogging after fly balls!

Don't forget the "wincing" when he does run harder for the ball. Always looks like he has pulled a muscle.

We do have to remember its the Jays that gave him that ridiculous contract.

[Maxman]

Don't forget the "wincing" when he does run harder for the ball. Always looks like he has pulled a muscle.

We do have to remember its the Jays that gave him that ridiculous contract.

I can live with the wincing - maybe he has aches and pains. I can't stand the little giggles and smiles when he's on the front end of the double play and doesn't slide, or pops up with RISP. That is not leadership! The GM and new manager (please get rid of CITO ASAP!), need to hall VW into the office, put him up against the wall, and tell him to start showing some interest - start leading by example. I'd love to see a rookie or young player like Romero or Snider call him out!

It just seems way toooooo easy to play on this team and just swing for the fence!

[trellaine201]

That was brutal. Bases loaded, nobody out and were running a guy from third on short fly ball???? Wells hitting .213 with men in scoring position. They are hitting this guy why would they run the guy from third.

Grrr

[Psubs]

That was brutal. Bases loaded, nobody out and were running a guy from third on short fly ball???? Wells hitting .213 with men in scoring position. They are hitting this guy why would they run the guy from third.

Grrr

FU VERNON!!! :mad:

Oh man, no runs!?!?!? WTF?!?!?! :cry:

[inntents]

Well done, LaVerne-on!
Good job swinging on that single/double/4-pitch walk/2-0 count pitch!
Guess that's why they pay you the big bucks to "hit" clean-up:mad:

[trellaine201]

FU VERNON!!! :mad:

Oh man, no runs!?!?!? WTF?!?!?! :cry:


And 2-0 count lol, what a joke this guy is.

[Maxman]

That was brutal. Bases loaded, nobody out and were running a guy from third on short fly ball???? Wells hitting .213 with men in scoring position. They are hitting this guy why would they run the guy from third.

Grrr

I charted the 1st inning to compare the Yanks vs. Jays.

B = Ball
S = Watched strike
K = Swinging strike
F - Foul ball
H = Hit
O = Out

Yanks
1B - BBBSSK - Strikeout swinging - 6 pitches
2B - BSBBB - Walk - 5 pitches
3B - SSFFS - Struckout looking - 5 pitches
4B - BH - Double, RBI - 2 pitches
5B - BBBSSK - Struckout swinging - 6 pitches

Total pitches thrown = 24

Jays
1B - SH - Singles - 2 pitches
2B - H - Double - 1 pitch
3B - BBBB - Walk - 4 pitches
4B - BBO - Popup double play
5B - BSFBBK - Struckout swinging

Total pitches thrown = 16

The yanks, facing a veteran pitcher make the pitcher get deep into a count, pretty much waiting for the pitcher to throw a strike before they swing. At this pace, Morrow will be lucky to get through 5 innings. That means, the Yanks will get to face Janssen, Tallet, Frasor, etc for at least 3-4 innings! Then, by game 2, the bullpen has already pitched 4 innings!

The Jays, facing a rookie pitcher in his first start, go up swinging. When they get two runners on base, and the pitcher seems rattled, throwing 6 straight balls (none even close), the batter (Wells) swings at a high pitch and pops-out. The runner (Lewis) attempt to tag on a ball to very shallow left field, getting thrown out at the plate, ending a chance to pressure a rookie in his first start. Assuming a pitch count of 100 pitches, the Jays don't get into the bullpen until the 8th inning, so set-up man, closer!

This is just plain, bad management! Cito should be giving Wells a take sign after 6 STRAIGHT balls. Make the pitcher sweat, and throw at least one strike before swinging. We teach kids this at the lowest levels of baseball! Wells just seems to refuse to take a walk!

[trellaine201]

VW is hinderance on this young team as been mentioned. :mad: were still having a better year than I thought.

[inntents]

Gee, wouldn't it be great if Cito, you know, managed, and flipped Jose and Laverne in the batting order?

Was there not a time in June or July when Jose was only 4 or 5 HRs ahead of our "clean-up" hitter?

[Maxman]

Cito ejected!!!! I'm going to complain to MLB and see if I can get him a 40 game suspension!

[La Fleur]

Tony did go on to have a few more productive seasons with the Jays and the Orioles. He was hurt for a bit though. He remains one of my favorite Jays of all time with his gregarious and laid-back nature. He can also play many positions as well and has a pretty sweet swing.

I think my affinity for Bautista last year stemmed from some part of my brain which also held some memories of Batista (similar name and all). He was very likable guy back in the day and I find the 2 share many similarities.

Here's a glimpse into Batista's sense of humour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHaLNireXnA

His wikipedia also says he once ran all the way to the warning track on an infield single . . . LMAO

[La Fleur]

Speaking of Bautista . . . BOOM! Love the bat drop on his second shot. Now, that's how you gain clubhouse respect. Lewis and Encarnacion were all over Jose in the dugout. Plain and simple, production and attitude gain respect and leadership attributes.

I think a lot of people hate on Vern too much. Yes, he's overpaid. But, a lot of it has to do with Cito's laidback coaching style. Any sensible coach would put V-dub in a less productive position, until he produces like cleanup again. He usually has a big September, so I see his #s going back up. I think he's the kind of guy that really gets stuck in ruts and he needs a tougher manager to wake him up. As nice as Cito is, he doesn't have that quality.

But, in general, most of the Jays woes are due to bad plate discipline - be it Wells' swing first mentality, Lind's inability to hit anything high and in, Hill's sudden pop out proficiency or just about everyone's lack of clutch with RISP, it all boils down to Cito's managing and the other coaches.

[trellaine201]

Hill and Lind are having monster years at the plate. Great averages. I think Hill is at .209 yikes! You would have thought by now he would be out of his funk....same for Lind. I am going to guess Hill must be injured all year? It's painful to watch these two after such good years last year.

Oh well, players aren't going to have stellar years every year.

[Manatus]

Hill and Lind are having monster years at the plate. Great averages. I think Hill is at .209 yikes! You would have thought by now he would be out of his funk....same for Lind. I am going to guess Hill must be injured all year? It's painful to watch these two after such good years last year.

Oh well, players aren't going to have stellar years every year.

Yeah, I find it interesting how everyone got on Overbay and now everyone is on Wells (not that they both didn't deserve it), but it seems to have slipped under the radar that we have an everyday DH hitting like Johnny McDonald. Really looked out of sorts this evening.

[Skip2MyLou]

how about brandon morrow!
12K against the yankees who are mostly a discipline team at the plate. very impressive.
how about Bautista showing some toughness in the 6th walking up to the mound, I don't see many of our players willing to do that after a purpose pitch they didn't like.

[Psubs]

Morrow is a stud! :razz:

Having a staff of like 5, #2 pitchers wouldn't be half bad. Get them all under great contracts like Romero and laugh all the way to future playoffs.

Brandon League is actually pitching well for the Mariners at 8-6 with a 2.84 era. That's a lot of decisions for a reliever. It seems like he pitches well in even years, kind of like the S.A. Spurs of the NBA.

[Skip2MyLou]

Johnny Damon has been claimed off waivers by the Boston Red Sox.
However, he has a no-trade clause in his contract.
He has until Wednesday to decide if he wants to waive the no-trade.

Do you guys think he will to rejoin the Red Sox this season and help make a playoff push?
He did get booed by the red sox when he returned to fenway as a yankee.

[Beeg]

Great game!

[White Comet]

I don't really see Vernon as much as a Clubhouse leader as opposed to Bautista. This season where he gets to play full time really changed him. Great game, but the 1st inning was such a disappointment with Vernon swinging at pitches eye-level on a 2-0 count.

As for Hill, i still thinks he has that HR mentality as he did hit 36hrs last year, that's why the amount of pop-outs. Someone needs to remind him that he's a line drive hitter and they sometime go out the park.

As for Lind, I don't know what's up but he's trying to pull everything this year. He's more of a spray it to all fields with power type of guy.

And I don't know what's up with Gaston playing Snider lead-off? He doesn't really fit in there at all. Might as well put Vernon Wells in there as he probably won't ground into many double plays.

[La Fleur]

I don't really see Vernon as much as a Clubhouse leader as opposed to Bautista. This season where he gets to play full time really changed him. Great game, but the 1st inning was such a disappointment with Vernon swinging at pitches eye-level on a 2-0 count.

As for Hill, i still thinks he has that HR mentality as he did hit 36hrs last year, that's why the amount of pop-outs. Someone needs to remind him that he's a line drive hitter and they sometime go out the park.

As for Lind, I don't know what's up but he's trying to pull everything this year. He's more of a spray it to all fields with power type of guy.

And I don't know what's up with Gaston playing Snider lead-off? He doesn't really fit in there at all. Might as well put Vernon Wells in there as he probably won't ground into many double plays.

Ya, I agree with most of that. I always thought V-dub did well when he led off the inning. Besides, he hits lots of doubles, so this would set up quite well when you got Escobar hitting second and able to lay a sac bunt, then Bautista third with lots of power. Hill is definitley a line drive hitter and Lind has tremendous power going opposite field, he's able to slice tons of balls in the opposite direction for extra bases.

What about this for a lineup?

Wells/Lewis
Escobar/J-Mac
Hill
Bautista
Snider
Overbay
Lind
Encarnacion
Buck/Molina/Arencibia

I think Hill doesn't have a single sac fly this year. Putting him third, after a Wells double and Escobar sac bunt means his OF flyout could easily score V-dub from third. Or if he actually gets on, Bautista hits him home. With the later half of the lineup hitting relatively well lately (Lind the last month moreso than the last week, Encarnacion a bit, Overbay/Buck the last week), that's bound to get enough guys on base for a Bautista bomb if Wells/Esco/Hill get an out.

Considering the lack of SB's by the Blue Jays it doesn't make sense to put Lewis or Snider leadoff with their speed, although both are similar to Wells in that they tend to hit doubles.

[White Comet]

Ya, I agree with most of that. I always thought V-dub did well when he led off the inning. Besides, he hits lots of doubles, so this would set up quite well when you got Escobar hitting second and able to lay a sac bunt, then Bautista third with lots of power. Hill is definitley a line drive hitter and Lind has tremendous power going opposite field, he's able to slice tons of balls in the opposite direction for extra bases.

What about this for a lineup?

Wells/Lewis
Escobar/J-Mac
Hill
Bautista
Snider
Overbay
Lind
Encarnacion
Buck/Molina/Arencibia

I think Hill doesn't have a single sac fly this year. Putting him third, after a Wells double and Escobar sac bunt means his OF flyout could easily score V-dub from third. Or if he actually gets on, Bautista hits him home. With the later half of the lineup hitting relatively well lately (Lind the last month moreso than the last week, Encarnacion a bit, Overbay/Buck the last week), that's bound to get enough guys on base for a Bautista bomb if Wells/Esco/Hill get an out.

Considering the lack of SB's by the Blue Jays it doesn't make sense to put Lewis or Snider leadoff with their speed, although both are similar to Wells in that they tend to hit doubles.
I don't know why, but it seems to me that Lewis' speed isn't that impressive and he's a horrible outfielder. You are correct that Hill doesn't have a sac fly this year, he's poping up like crazy.

No way J-Mac bats 2nd, that's just crazy like Cito is. With the way Hill and Lind are hitting this year, I don't really know what to do with them as, they don't even get on base. What I'd do is this:

Wells
Escobar
Buck
Bautista
Overbay
Hill
Lind
Snider/Lewis
Encarnacion/Molina/Arencibia/McDonald

The thing with Hill is that until he changes his approach, he's not going to improve much, i think it has to do with the Cito philosophy which really doesn't work with everyone. I think it's working great with Bautista is because he's a smart hitter, willing to adjust to pitchers and hitting "his" pitchers instead of pitcher's pitches, coupled along with a great eye and patience. Until we find a legit clean-up man, Bautista does the job just fine.
Batting Buck 3rd makes sense because he's been the most consistent guy in terms of batting over the season, highest .avg on the team too.
You can put Lewis batting 1st, but where would Wells go as he's going to play everyday.

[Psubs]

Wells
Escobar
Buck
Bautista
Overbay
Hill
Lind
Snider/Lewis
Encarnacion/Molina/Arencibia/McDonald


Lewis
Escobar
Wells
Bautista
Snider
Buck / Molina
Overbay
Lind
Hill
Encarnacion

[inntents]

Just couldn't help but laugh out loud at two of Shmuck Martinez's Buck-isms last night:

1. Referring to Boone Logan, the Yanks pitcher:
"He's 6'5" and he's ONLY 26 years old!"
Wow, Shmuck, and HOW tall do you think he'll be when he's 30 years old?! 7'10"???:lol:

2. "So that gives Jose 40 homers now. In the calendar year, that gives him over 50, if you add in the 10 from last September!"
Really, Shmuck? You'd teach Math about as well as you broadcast baseball.:rolleyes:


And what was with him going on and on and on about how could the umpire even THINK that Nova was trying to brush back Bautista in his "FIRST GAME IN THE BIG LEAGUES," and then giving all these bogus reasons. Jose had already jacked one out, and just crucified this AB's first pitch very long and foul with a mighty, mighty swing. Nova had every reason to brush him back, as Jose was showing no fear of going out over the plate. Hell, lots of pitcher's would have come closer than Nova did! Assuming this was just Nova's first game pitching in the bigs, and not his first game ever throwing a baseball, he knew exactly what he was doing, and did it well!;)

[La Fleur]

Lol, schmuck and tabler are obsessed with big, strong pitchers. Always say that in games.

Should be a schmuck drinking game

[White Comet]

Sometimes, I really do dislike the comments from Martinez and Tabler. The non-biased comments is getting a bit out of hand.

[Skip2MyLou]

looks like Snider is leading off again tonight.
http://twitpic.com/2hu70v

[trellaine201]

looks like Snider is leading off again tonight.
http://twitpic.com/2hu70v

ugh, i really don't like Snider. I think he is underachieving despite his tender age. He really doesn't show me very much......yet. Do we have excess OF next year? If so, trade bait in my opinion.

[Jimboski]

looks like Snider is leading off again tonight.
http://twitpic.com/2hu70v

How did you get that photo?

[will games]

Johnny Damon has been claimed off waivers by the Boston Red Sox.
However, he has a no-trade clause in his contract.
He has until Wednesday to decide if he wants to waive the no-trade.

Do you guys think he will to rejoin the Red Sox this season and help make a playoff push?
He did get booed by the red sox when he returned to fenway as a yankee.


He chose to stay a tiger :razz:...good screw the sox lol

[trellaine201]

Bautista caught napping abit I think. Early in the game and misjudged that fly ball. Can't afford to make mistakes against the upper echelon of baseball.

[Beeg]

He's thinking to much of where to give Damien Cox a beating.

[trellaine201]

This ski guy is serving up meatballs.

[Spray]

It truly blows my mind that Richmond isn't pitching over Rzep. This isn't a fun league or Double A, we don't bring up pitchers to have them work out their delivery.

[White Comet]

lol Blue Jays giving the Yankees batting practice, must be fun. Oh, I lol'd at Obay taking down Tallet, must be saying "gtfo Tallet!"

Lind and Hill is becoming ridiculous at the plate, I mean aside from the HRs, you can put in J-Mac and you'd get similar results.

Some more Vernon Wells stat: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=wellsve01&year=2010&t=b#bases

That opposite field hit by Wells with runners 1 & 3 was his first in this year and his 3rd hit with runner on 3rd less than 2 outs and we're going to be playing $21mil for this guy over the next couple of years. GG.

[trellaine201]

Wow I am watching the Astros game and noticed Brett Wallace playing first base. I see his numbers aren't good at all after 21 games. Looks like maybe he's not ready for the MLB quite yet.

23 Ks in 63AB

[Maxman]

Wow I am watching the Astros game and noticed Brett Wallace playing first base. I see his numbers aren't good at all after 21 games. Looks like maybe he's not ready for the MLB quite yet.

23 Ks in 63AB

Hey, striking out is better than popping up on the first pitch. At least you get to see a few pitches and create a little wear-and-tear on the pitcher!

[trellaine201]

He looks like a player though :)

[Psubs]

Hey, striking out is better than popping up on the first pitch. At least you get to see a few pitches and create a little wear-and-tear on the pitcher!

When the Jays scored their first run (down 6-1) and had first (Wells) and third (Bautista) with nobody out, I wondered about the lineup and thought wouldn't it be nice to have Overbay up then Buck, but no, they have struggling Lind then Hill to get out with their pitiful averages. :mad:

FU CITO!!!! :evil:

Hmmmmm, a new word. Fucito!!! New Italian curse word to cry about the Jays!

[trellaine201]

Haha Ryan Howard was just thrown out of the game in the 14th inning. They have no position players left thus will have to put a pitcher into a position :) this should be interesting. Roy Oswalt playing left field lol

[grappos13]

on a different/separate note.. depending on what Votto does the rest of the game tonight, it looks like Pujols could start tomorrow being 1st in all three batting categories (HR, RBIs and Average)... this has not happened since 1967 (43 years ago) in the AL and 1937 (73 years ago) in the NL...

GO PUJOLS GO!!!!

[Skip2MyLou]

How did you get that photo?

@BlueJays posted it on twitter.

[Skip2MyLou]

When the Jays scored their first run (down 6-1) and had first (Wells) and third (Bautista) with nobody out, I wondered about the lineup and thought wouldn't it be nice to have Overbay up then Buck, but no, they have struggling Lind then Hill to get out with their pitiful averages. :mad:

FU CITO!!!! :evil:

Hmmmmm, a new word. Fucito!!! New Italian curse word to cry about the Jays!

haha, fucito.

That was disgusting, 3 straight pop ups.
At least Vernon Wells got 2 RBI's tonight.
I would like to try Buck in the 4 hole, and move Vernon to 5 for now.

[Psubs]

haha, fucito.

That was disgusting, 3 straight pop ups.
At least Vernon Wells got 2 RBI's tonight.
I would like to try Buck in the 4 hole, and move Vernon to 5 for now.

Instead of moving him down, I'd put him in front of Bautista, so he'd try harder to just get on-base for the HR leader.

Lewis
Escobar
Vernon
Bautista
Overbay
Buck
Snider
Encarnacion /Lind / Hill

Lind and Hill should be no higher than 7th. Keep the rally-killers at the bottom. :mad:

[tighty whities]

on a different/separate note.. depending on what Votto does the rest of the game tonight, it looks like Pujols could start tomorrow being 1st in all three batting categories (HR, RBIs and Average)... this has not happened since 1967 (43 years ago) in the AL and 1937 (73 years ago) in the NL...

GO PUJOLS GO!!!!

It's called the Triple Crown

[inntents]

Instead of moving him down, I'd put him in front of Bautista, so he'd try harder to just get on-base for the HR leader.

Lewis
Escobar
Vernon
Bautista
Overbay
Buck
Snider
Encarnacion /Lind / Hill

Lind and Hill should be no higher than 7th. Keep the rally-killers at the bottom. :mad:

Agree with P, but why doesn't anyone want to try Escobar at leadoff?

Escobar(R) - strikes out half as often as Lewis, can bunt, has speed (tho' no SB's yet, but that can be taught)
Overbay(L) - takes lots of pitches, Escobar could run(too many?)
Wells(R) - gotta put him somewhere!
Bautista(R)
Buck(R) - protect Bautista
Lewis/Snider(L) - lead-off for the bottom half of the order
Encarnacion(R) - been hitting the ball hard and well of late
Lind(L) - um, works for R/L/R/L/R ?
Hill(R) - pretty good HR #s for a #9 hitter?

C'mon Fucito, I'll give you 100 bucks if you try this out!

[Maxman]

Leadoff hitter should be able to battle deep into a count, take a walk, get HBP, or slap a single to any part of the park (hit for average). Should also have 1st to 3rd speed, and be able to steal bases to put pressure on the defence. Jays don't have anyone remotely close to a lead-off hitter. Lewis doesn't have the speed or the instincts, but is as close as the Jays have.

Two hitter should have the best bat control and plate discipline on the team - be able to sacrifice, hit and run, hit to all fields to stay out of DP and move runners along. A little bit of power is nice. Should not strike out much and have above average speed. Hill fit this role last year.

Number three should be your best overall hitter - power and average. Lind did a good job last year - no clue as to why he's fallen so far this year (as with Hill). There is no way that Wells is a number 3 hitter! Down the road, I think this will be Snider's slot - if he can get it together an dstop flailing at pitches. Bautista is doing a good job right now.

Cleanup - clutch hitting with power. I'd honestly throw Snider in this slot for the rest of the year just to see what he is made of. See if he can bear down and get a run in when needed. May be good for his development rather than burying him in 9 or having him leadoff (WTF!).

Five is usually reserved for a power hitter that strikes out too much to be a clean-up hitter! Buck would be a good fit right now, but not long-term.

Six - should be Overbays spot. He's close to what you need out of the #2 spot, but lacks speed.

7-8 are basically interchangeable - a low-average, sometimes power hitting catcher and a middle infielder or outfielder that is streaky.

9 - is reserved for a speedy guy who can battle to get on base, but lacks power and isn't a true average hitter (.250 hitter).

The problem with the Jays right now - while everyone swings for the fences - is the manager has lost focus on filling in slots to make the TEAM productive.

There just doesn't seem to be any focus on TEAM with these guys. Most lack intensity, some just flail away, others seem to be able to work a count or take a walk, very few sacrifices, and absolutely no speed.

If Hill and Lind can get back to where they were, you would at least have a 2-3-4 combo with Bautista hitting clean-up. Everyone else needs to fill a role or be moved.

[grappos13]

good win for the jays.. but man...

Vernon Wells has a single, triple and homerun after the 4th inning!!! too bad he couldnt get a double, which is the type of hit he loves to get...woulda been wicked if he hit for the cycle!

our starting pitching has been pretty good except for the 5th starter..

Romero - 10 -7
Morrow - 9 - 6
Marcum - 11 - 7
Cecil - 11 -6

Total = 41 - 26....out of 95 starts...pretty good and all starters are 28 years of age or younger!

but the rest of the starters (Litsch, Eveland, Tallet, Rzepczynski, and Mills) ...out of 31 starts..

Total = 8 - 16...bad!

[trellaine201]

Apparently his first HR since Aug3 lol

[Jimboski]

Apparently his first HR since Aug3 lol

Vernon shouldn't have went to the All-Star game!

[White Comet]

finally Wells could hit one out of the part with a pitch at his eye level

[La Fleur]

good win for the jays.. but man...

Vernon Wells has a single, triple and homerun after the 4th inning!!! too bad he couldnt get a double, which is the type of hit he loves to get...woulda been wicked if he hit for the cycle!

our starting pitching has been pretty good except for the 5th starter..

Romero - 10 -7
Morrow - 9 - 6
Marcum - 11 - 7
Cecil - 11 -6

Total = 41 - 26....out of 95 starts...pretty good and all starters are 28 years of age or younger!

but the rest of the starters (Litsch, Eveland, Tallet, Rzepczynski, and Mills) ...out of 31 starts..

Total = 8 - 16...bad!

Yea, the starters are great. Is Eveland still pitching? He was picked up by Pitts I think, but havent heard much from him. Tallet is pretty useless except in blowouts and spot starts against crap teams, he's a good innings eater, that's about it. The Rzep . . . hard to say. Very inconsistent . . . not sure if Mills or someone else will replace him. Litsch is such a mystery. Had that one great spell, then injury derailment after injury derailment. Too be fair, he got crap run support in a bunch of decently pitched games. Just doesn't go deep enough into games.

I'd like to see how the team is with a healthy Richmond and McGowan back in the rotation. Then slot a few of the other starters into relief and trade Frasor/Jansen.

[Rocketo]

Lind is just horrible in 13 ABs against yanks he struck out 6 times
why Cito still puts him 5th is beyond me...he really should be 7 right before lind..

Cito did one thing right put Aaron Hill 8th where he belongs...the man either gets a homerun or he pops up he has altered his swing so much to swing for the fences that it's either hit or miss on that...he was better when he was a line drive hitter

[Skip2MyLou]

finally Wells could hit one out of the part with a pitch at his eye level

LOL at that swing, I was like oh man here comes another strikeout.
But then BAM! he drives it deep.
Let's hope he's back on track with those three hits, stop striking out so much. I was hoping for him to get a double, his 4th at bat was very close to a double.

And wow at Bautista's hustle play on Wells' 3rd hit (single). That guy has some serious hustle, staying out of the groundball out and helping us score a run.

[trellaine201]

I wish could play the Yanks more often!! They heavily underachieve against the Jays!

[actyper]

Lind is just horrible in 13 ABs against yanks he struck out 6 times
why Cito still puts him 5th is beyond me...he really should be 7 right before lind..

Cito did one thing right put Aaron Hill 8th where he belongs...the man either gets a homerun or he pops up he has altered his swing so much to swing for the fences that it's either hit or miss on that...he was better when he was a line drive hitter

I think its just to get a leftie there, unless you want overbay hitting 5th. Hopefully Snider heats up then you can use him 5th as I absolutely hate him as a leadoff guy.

[Psubs]

I think its just to get a leftie there, unless you want overbay hitting 5th. Hopefully Snider heats up then you can use him 5th as I absolutely hate him as a leadoff guy.

He doesn't need to heat up, hitting 5th is much better for him than leadoff. :lol:

Lewis (L)
Escobar (R)
Wells (R)
Bautista (R)
Snider (L)
Buck (R)
Overbay (L)
Hill (R)
Lind (L)
Encaancion (R)

[Skip2MyLou]

http://twitpic.com/2if2wn

lol at the tigers benching all their left handed bats and starting all the right handers. When lefties hit .273 off him and righties hit .239.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8424/splits;_ylt=ArmSajXC9_WfLhIC0F4yTCfJbQM6


http://proline.olg.ca/images/proline/logo_proline.gif
MCAB WIN BY 01 PTS.
ODDS 1.80
63 BBH MCAB @ WELL
2010-08-26

UNDER 8.5 TOTAL PTS.
ODDS 1.55
62 BBL DET @ TOR
2010-08-26

TOR WIN BY 02 PTS.
ODDS 1.80
62 BBL DET @ TOR
2010-08-26

All 3 correct pays
WAGER $5
X ODDS 5.02
=PAYS $25.10

[White Comet]

Wow. Horrible game tonight, I passed out watching the game on my couch. The error by E5 pretty much killed the game.

[canabiz]

Romero didn't have his best stuff tonight but again so did the defense and the offense (taking nothing away from the Tigers pitchers)

I am surprised Damon didn't want to go back to Beantown for another run at the post-season. I guess there were some hard feelings when he left Boston for the Yankees. I still remember his long flocks and beard in THAT post-season, definitely one for the ages.

[Skip2MyLou]

E5 definitely killed the game with his E5, and romero got rattled after that couldn't maintain consistent strikes. Might've had something to do with the comebacker that hit him.

[MrWizard]

Strasburg likely needs Tommy John surgery.

http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=331780

[Manatus]

Strasburg likely needs Tommy John surgery.

http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=331780

That's really unfortunate. I hope his career hasn't been compromised by so many people demanding that he be the best rookie pitcher ever.

[NDman]

That's sad news about Strasburg. He was as good as advertised, despite the typical Boras smoke-blowing. Tough break for him and the Nats

[kennyc516]

kind of an aside question,

I just got a free family ticket pack voucher from my parent's friends for tomorrow's game against the tigers.
The email asks me to print out the barcode to redeem the tickets.
However, that email is under my parents' friend's name and they are out of town right now.
Does anyone know if it's ok for me to redeem the tickets?

Thanks!

[trellaine201]

Strasburg likely needs Tommy John surgery.

http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=331780

Isn't that a nice "hello" to the majors. Unfortunate for him.

[djstiles]

kind of an aside question,

I just got a free family ticket pack voucher from my parent's friends for tomorrow's game against the tigers.
The email asks me to print out the barcode to redeem the tickets.
However, that email is under my parents' friend's name and they are out of town right now.
Does anyone know if it's ok for me to redeem the tickets?

Thanks!

Hey I'm sure it's fine. I've printed off e-tickets before and they never look at the name, they just scan the barcode to make sure the ticket is legit!

Enjoy the game!

[djstiles]

Strasburg likely needs Tommy John surgery.

http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=331780

Yikes, could be out 12-18 months. Sad news for Nats and Strasburg

[La Fleur]

Bautista #42!

[cheapmeister]

dam its tied by daemon :mad:

[cheapmeister]

Come on Gregg, shut down the tigers! NOW! NOW! NOW!:|:|:|:|

[canabiz]

Guys according to this article, the Jays have put Downs, Gregg, Frasor and Camp on waivers and all 4 have been claimed by other teams.

http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=331857

If this is not a sign that they have thrown in the towel, I don't know what is. After a promising stretch a couple of weeks ago, the Jays have regressed again and the Yankees, Bosox and Tampa are just too much to catch up at this stage of the season.

Oh well, back to the drawing board. Time for call up some youngsters from the minors and evaluate them at the major level.

[trellaine201]

Snider sucks, can't hit and d is questionable. I hope he has decent trade value around the league.

I could definitely see him being shipped out over the summer.

[La Fleur]

Snider sucks, can't hit and d is questionable. I hope he has decent trade value around the league.

I could definitely see him being shipped out over the summer.

If Snider's shipped out this soon, the Jays are truly regressing as an organization. He seems to need a bunch of at bats before getting hot, but how's this going to happen when Shito Asston sits him every few games? The guy is still so young and he needs his at bats to get used to the big league level. I'm not giving up on him yet thats for sure.

Now, if what you meant to say was Encarnacion . . . all is forgiven:lol:

[trellaine201]

If Snider's shipped out this soon, the Jays are truly regressing as an organization. He seems to need a bunch of at bats before getting hot, but how's this going to happen when Shito Asston sits him every few games? The guy is still so young and he needs his at bats to get used to the big league level. I'm not giving up on him yet thats for sure.

Now, if what you meant to say was Encarnacion . . . all is forgiven:lol:

Encarnacion will be gone after this year. Last year on his deal. Snider had AB last year as well and maybe even the yr before that. He looks terrible at the plate.

[La Fleur]

Guys according to this article, the Jays have put Downs, Gregg, Frasor and Camp on waivers and all 4 have been claimed by other teams.

http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=331857

If this is not a sign that they have thrown in the towel, I don't know what is. After a promising stretch a couple of weeks ago, the Jays have regressed again and the Yankees, Bosox and Tampa are just too much to catch up at this stage of the season.

Oh well, back to the drawing board. Time for call up some youngsters from the minors and evaluate them at the major level.

Yea, don't fall prey to the JP effect. Logic dictated the Jays were never really in it, at least not this late in the game. Mathematically yes, but reasonably no.

The difference is clinch games - the Jays had too many throwaway games where they easily should have won, but a lack of ability to hold on - a combination of young starters (who've been phenomenal in my books), meatball middle relievers, underperformance (Hill, Lind obviously), but mainly bad plate discipline and poor management.

Watching the Rays game tonight makes you realize how good they are . . . Lester was pretty dominant - cut fastball could not be hit - but Rays tried to find ways to win by stealing bases, hit and run, etc and it seemed like they were in it until the end, despite losing. I've seen the Rays win so many 1 run games it makes you sick.

[La Fleur]

Yes! Hill wins it for the Jays. Looks like being dumped in the order is paying dividends with his plate approach.

[canabiz]

Yea, don't fall prey to the JP effect. Logic dictated the Jays were never really in it, at least not this late in the game. Mathematically yes, but reasonably no.

The difference is clinch games - the Jays had too many throwaway games where they easily should have won, but a lack of ability to hold on - a combination of young starters (who've been phenomenal in my books), meatball middle relievers, underperformance (Hill, Lind obviously), but mainly bad plate discipline and poor management.

Watching the Rays game tonight makes you realize how good they are . . . Lester was pretty dominant - cut fastball could not be hit - but Rays tried to find ways to win by stealing bases, hit and run, etc and it seemed like they were in it until the end, despite losing. I've seen the Rays win so many 1 run games it makes you sick.

I don't know what it will take for the Jays to overcome hurdles to be atop the ultra-competitive A.L. East. It will most likely be a 3-horse race for the next few years between the Rays, Yankees, and Bosox.

Snider certainly has had his chances and while he is young and still has a long way to go, it goes without saying that he will have to continue working hard and maintain a positive attitude. I have some faith in Alex A. but it's a mountain to climb. The Jays is fast approaching the 20-year mark when they last made the playoff and there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel.

[La Fleur]

I don't know what it will take for the Jays to overcome hurdles to be atop the ultra-competitive A.L. East. It will most likely be a 3-horse race for the next few years between the Rays, Yankees, and Bosox.

Snider certainly has had his chances and while he is young and still has a long way to go, it goes without saying that he will have to continue working hard and maintain a positive attitude. I have some faith in Alex A. but it's a mountain to climb. The Jays is fast approaching the 20-year mark when they last made the playoff and there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm not sure . . . I thought the Jays were in a good spot, considering the following: Yankees are getting old. Jeter, Posada, Pettite and Rivera are all still pretty good, but their age is definitely showing in their stats. Sure, they have a stud in Cano, and stat stuffers in A-Rod and Texeira, but the core of their team is fizzling out. Ultimately the Yanks will find a way to buy themselves into contention - even if it backfires a la Vasquez or Burnett - since their ability to contend draws in free agents, but I think the Yanks are peaking right now. Pretty much ditto for the Red Sox with oldies in Lowell, Ortiz, etc. Boston still has a killer rotation and some decent prospects, but they too could be peaking. Tampa is a wildcard . . . depends how they fare in the post season, since a lot of their free agents could bounce elsewhere. Jays have the youngest core and really seemed primed to do well . . . I thought had they picked up another bat during the trade deadline, they could have made some serious waves.

[Skip2MyLou]

Guys according to this article, the Jays have put Downs, Gregg, Frasor and Camp on waivers and all 4 have been claimed by other teams.

http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=331857

If this is not a sign that they have thrown in the towel, I don't know what is. After a promising stretch a couple of weeks ago, the Jays have regressed again and the Yankees, Bosox and Tampa are just too much to catch up at this stage of the season.

Oh well, back to the drawing board. Time for call up some youngsters from the minors and evaluate them at the major level.

WOW why now!
And we're keeping the useless long relievers Tallet and Janssen. wtf.
They're getting rid of the whole quality of the bullpen, thats disgusting.

No doubt in my mind, Yankees claimed Scott Downs.

[trellaine201]

WOW why now!
And we're keeping the useless long relievers Tallet and Janssen. wtf.
They're getting rid of the whole quality of the bullpen, thats disgusting.

No doubt in my mind, Yankees claimed Scott Downs.

Then they will have to pay dearly. If not we will keep him.

[tighty whities]

Guys according to this article, the Jays have put Downs, Gregg, Frasor and Camp on waivers and all 4 have been claimed by other teams.

http://tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=331857

If this is not a sign that they have thrown in the towel, I don't know what is. After a promising stretch a couple of weeks ago, the Jays have regressed again and the Yankees, Bosox and Tampa are just too much to catch up at this stage of the season.

Oh well, back to the drawing board. Time for call up some youngsters from the minors and evaluate them at the major level.


WOW why now!
And we're keeping the useless long relievers Tallet and Janssen. wtf.
They're getting rid of the whole quality of the bullpen, thats disgusting.

No doubt in my mind, Yankees claimed Scott Downs.

Wow, relax guys. Almost every player will be put through waivers after the trade deadline, it doesn't mean they are actually going to trade/release that player.

[canabiz]

I'm not sure . . . I thought the Jays were in a good spot, considering the following: Yankees are getting old. Jeter, Posada, Pettite and Rivera are all still pretty good, but their age is definitely showing in their stats. Sure, they have a stud in Cano, and stat stuffers in A-Rod and Texeira, but the core of their team is fizzling out. Ultimately the Yanks will find a way to buy themselves into contention - even if it backfires a la Vasquez or Burnett - since their ability to contend draws in free agents, but I think the Yanks are peaking right now. Pretty much ditto for the Red Sox with oldies in Lowell, Ortiz, etc. Boston still has a killer rotation and some decent prospects, but they too could be peaking. Tampa is a wildcard . . . depends how they fare in the post season, since a lot of their free agents could bounce elsewhere. Jays have the youngest core and really seemed primed to do well . . . I thought had they picked up another bat during the trade deadline, they could have made some serious waves.

I guess as a jaded Jays fan, I will take the *one-day-at-a-time* approach. There was time when I also had high hopes for Dustin McGowan, Jesse Litsch and Gustavo Chacin but we all know how they have all panned out, although truth be told some of them have had injuries, which you can say is part of the game.

Nobody expected Hill and Lind to struggle so bad this season. I guess my point is even though the other teams may regress, it may not make much of a difference if the Jays does not capitalize and seize their opportunities. Will they do so? I sure hope they do, for the sake of the franchise and their fanbase. Will it actually happen? That's a million-dollar question that can only be answered around September every year, not April or anytime in between.

[djstiles]

WOW! A stolen base by Lewis and the Jays?!?! Cito did NOT give the green light for that one!

Nice triple by Bautista in the first

[Skip2MyLou]

Horrible bullpen management by Cito today almost cost us the game.
Why not let Morrow pitch the 7th, he only had 99 pitches.
They are watching the pitch count way too hard on all their pitchers.
Instead they bring out frasor to pitch the 7th, tallet to pitch the 8th, and ultimately having to use 4 bullpen guys on what should've been a easy 5-1 win.
So basically 3 guys working back to back days, not to mention Rzepcynzski is pitching tomorrow, so we might need the bullpen in key situations. All we have left for tomorrow is camp, carlson, janssen, and tallet, only one of those guys are trustworthy.
I hate how we unnecessarily use our bullpen when we're up 5-1 already.

Other than that, we had a great start today. And Snider almost went 4-4 if he hadn't gotten robbed of the line drive at 3rd. He definitely fits better in the 7th spot than leadoff.

Edwin Encarnacion has been placed on the 15 day DL (sprained wrist).
Mike McCoy called up.
But John MacDonald will be getting most of the playing time at 3rd, I would rather let Snider and Lewis play the field and have Bautista play 3rd.

[La Fleur]

Horrible bullpen management by Cito today almost cost us the game.
Why not let Morrow pitch the 7th, he only had 99 pitches.
They are watching the pitch count way too hard on all their pitchers.
Instead they bring out frasor to pitch the 7th, tallet to pitch the 8th, and ultimately having to use 4 bullpen guys on what should've been a easy 5-1 win.
So basically 3 guys working back to back days, not to mention Rzepcynzski is pitching tomorrow, so we might need the bullpen in key situations. All we have left for tomorrow is camp, carlson, janssen, and tallet, only one of those guys are trustworthy.
I hate how we unnecessarily use our bullpen when we're up 5-1 already.

Other than that, we had a great start today. And Snider almost went 4-4 if he hadn't gotten robbed of the line drive at 3rd. He definitely fits better in the 7th spot than leadoff.

Edwin Encarnacion has been placed on the 15 day DL (sprained wrist).
Mike McCoy called up.
But John MacDonald will be getting most of the playing time at 3rd, I would rather let Snider and Lewis play the field and have Bautista play 3rd.

Ditto. McCoy is no better than McDonald, so really he should just be bench material. Give Johnny Mac the rare start, but I'd rather have Lewis AND Snider playing. Both can steal bases, Lewis gets on base and Snider has the power. Bautista should be more than fine at third base. But knowing Cito . . .

Thankfully he listened to someone in Jays nation and took Snider out of leadoff. Agree that Cito f'd up the bullpen tonight. Such is the life of a player's coach.

[White Comet]

Actually, I don't like seeing Snider at Right field. For some reason, he isn't looking comfortable there.

[canabiz]

Jesse Carlson gives up way too many homers, usually at inopportune time to boot.

I highly doubt he will stick around next year. He showed flashes of promise 2 seasons ago but has regressed tremendously since.

[jokadeska]

Jesse Carlson gives up way too many homers, usually at inopportune time to boot.

I highly doubt he will stick around next year. He showed flashes of promise 2 seasons ago but has regressed tremendously since.

I wouldn't say inoppurtune times... I think Cito gave up already because asking carlson to pitch means surrendering to defeat... same with tallet...

[djstiles]

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=332068

Jays shutting Morrow down for season after his next start to monitor his innings pitched. 10-6 record is pretty good for his first full season as a starter

[canabiz]

I wouldn't say inoppurtune times... I think Cito gave up already because asking carlson to pitch means surrendering to defeat... same with tallet...

What i meant was the Jays were only 4-1 down when Carlson came in and he promptly gave up a couple of homers. The Jays did score a few runs in the 9th to make the score look a bit respectable. Would they be able to eke out a win if Carlson wasn't pitching? That's debatable but my point is he is paid as a relief pitcher and he should be able to do the job in a more efficient and productive manner. Sadly, that wasn't the case and it has happened many times for him, as you alluded to that in your post.

[Skip2MyLou]

I wouldn't say inoppurtune times... I think Cito gave up already because asking carlson to pitch means surrendering to defeat... same with tallet...

Cito only had the option of either Camp or Carlson because the rest of the crew had pitched on back to back days already (back to my point about wasting the bullpen arms yesterday with a 5-1 lead) and I guess he picked Carlson to face the left handed batters.

Dave Stieb bobblehead day today, I arrived at the ballpark at 12, and they were all gone :(. Was really looking forward to getting one.

[grappos13]

^ really? scams i say.. i turned on to blue jays connected at like 12:45 and it did not look like 10 g's were even sitting yet lol

[Skip2MyLou]

^ really? scams i say.. i turned on to blue jays connected at like 12:45 and it did not look like 10 g's were even sitting yet lol

attendance was apparently 27k lol.
but the cool thing was they had the legends handing out the bobbleheads by the gates.
Stieb, Barfield, Hentgen, Fernandez, & Ward

[trellaine201]

Brandon League is having a very nice season in Seattle :) he isn't getting the Ks like most thought he would. But he has been a good setup guy for the Mariners--when they have had the lead ;)

Good trade for both teams.

[162]

Looks like Vernon is starting the off-season early with his offensive slide lately. Hill has been on a holiday as well. Both these guys swinging on 1st pitches and popping out to 1st/3rd is happening too often.

[megalison]

Brandon League is having a very nice season in Seattle :) he isn't getting the Ks like most thought he would. But he has been a good setup guy for the Mariners--when they have had the lead ;)

Good trade for both teams.

I would think a guy who has pitched the way Morrow has as a starter with more upside is still more value than League as a set-up guy no matter how good League has been.

I only really follow the Jays, so to the other MLB guys here, does every team seem to get the surprises that the Jays seem to get out of some players every season? This year being the most obvious Bautista goes on beast-mode, Gonzales and Buck both play well above their journeymen status while on the pitching side of things I don't think anyone expected Morrow to pitch the way he did during the later stretches of this season.

[Manatus]

I would think a guy who has pitched the way Morrow has as a starter with more upside is still more value than League as a set-up guy no matter how good League has been.

I only really follow the Jays, so to the other MLB guys here, does every team seem to get the surprises that the Jays seem to get out of some players every season? This year being the most obvious Bautista goes on beast-mode, Gonzales and Buck both play well above their journeymen status while on the pitching side of things I don't think anyone expected Morrow to pitch the way he did during the later stretches of this season.

I think every team has good and bad surprises each year. The Jays have had their share of letdowns too... Wells, Rios, BJ Ryan are probably the biggest in recent memory. Not to mention I think the Jays were due for some good surprises after all of the pitching injuries the past couple years or so.

[megalison]

I think every team has good and bad surprises each year. The Jays have had their share of letdowns too... Wells, Rios, BJ Ryan are probably the biggest in recent memory. Not to mention I think the Jays were due for some good surprises after all of the pitching injuries the past couple years or so.

I really think Rios should have been given a bit more time. His contract was not THAT bad and he definitely still had the upside to produce like the way he is now... He was having a bad year just like Lind and Hill are right now.

[White Comet]

Ballgame. Jays lose 6-2 to the Rays and Toronto's defense costed the game. 4 unearned runs for them Rays (3 runs on Hill's error and 1 run on J-Mac's error). Good job. Not to mention our lineup tonight was really "bad".

[cheapmeister]

Yea, 3 errors by the jays. That is way too much and it cost them the game. BTW where is Overbay? He is injured?

[angel_wing0]

BTW where is Overbay? He is injured?

yes he is "not feeling well" according to Gaston..and escorbar is injuried.

[trellaine201]

Hiroki Kuroda currently has a no hitter through 7 and also got his first hit of the season 1/48 :)

[Skip2MyLou]

Ballgame. Jays lose 6-2 to the Rays and Toronto's defense costed the same. 4 unearned runs for them Rays (3 runs on Hill's error and 1 run on J-Mac's error). Good job. Not to mention our lineup tonight was really "bad".

somethings wrong with Hill's defense this year. I wonder if its just cause he's taking his struggles at the plate with him out onto the field?
or has he always been a bad fielder? i don't recall him being that bad a fielder.

[skyblue12]

Hiroki Kuroda currently has a no hitter through 7 and also got his first hit of the season 1/48 :)

jinxed it :)

[White Comet]

somethings wrong with Hill's defense this year. I wonder if its just cause he's taking his struggles at the plate with him out onto the field?
or has he always been a bad fielder? i don't recall him being that bad a fielder.

Really don't know about that one. Remember a couple of games back when Overbay caught the foul out in the top of the 9th to end the game, Hill came over and almost collided and he seemed rather pissed for Overbay to catch the ball? He's not a bad fielder, above average actually but I don't know if its just his lack of focus or frustration is starting to finally show.

[La Fleur]

I would think a guy who has pitched the way Morrow has as a starter with more upside is still more value than League as a set-up guy no matter how good League has been.

I only really follow the Jays, so to the other MLB guys here, does every team seem to get the surprises that the Jays seem to get out of some players every season? This year being the most obvious Bautista goes on beast-mode, Gonzales and Buck both play well above their journeymen status while on the pitching side of things I don't think anyone expected Morrow to pitch the way he did during the later stretches of this season.

Most fans and many, many so-called baseball experts predicted the Jays to be woeful this year, some even saying they'd be worse than the Orioles. So, taking that perspective many fans and now baseball analysts have taken note of the Jays this year and their surprises and I think that's why it seems to stick out so much. I think the loss of Halladay was overblown in how it would impact the young rotation - rather, the young guns have performed just as well, if not better, than when Doc was their as their #1 ace/clubhouse leader. As far as offense goes, Bautista is no doubt the comeback story of the year, hell, decade even. Gonzalez, Buck, Molina, and Lewis all having career or banner years stat-wise and compared to what people expected from them. Wells and Overbay also having better power years, despite poorer averages, less stolen bases, etc. The home run tear though, shouldn't be as surprising as many people thought . . . after going over some fantasy website projections, it seems like the Jays were expected to hit close to 230-40 bombs this year. Of course, Hill and Lind were projected to hit around 30 each, but big power from Buck, Gonzalez, and Bautista has compensated for the other 2's lack thereof this year. So, in a way, not terribly surprising . . . I just think there was no hype or bad scouting on the JAys this year . . . everyone was focused on other big stories during spring training. But, yea, it happens with other teams too - Padres with the best rotation, Halladay not a Cy Young contender on the Phillies, Pujols not leading MVP, lots of surprises this yr

[Psubs]

Is Johnny Mac trying to catch Bautista?

[canabiz]

Hill is having a pretty disappointing year, on both sides of the ball. I sure hope for his sake and the franchise sake that he rebounds next year. I think he will.

[trellaine201]

Time to give Hill some days off. *sigh* can't hit and struggling in the infield.

[megalison]

Well he hit himself another dinger, and Jays squeeze the Rays for 10 RUNS! Bautista # 43.

[trellaine201]

Congrats Jose!

[Psubs]

Well he hit himself another dinger, and Jays squeeze the Rays for 10 RUNS! Bautista # 43.

lolz, among 2nd basemen, he's like 4th in homers. :lol:

Would really like to keep Johnny Mac and Dewayne Wise as utility players for the next little while.

Jose is having fun! Love it when he comes back after getting hit and cranks a no-doubter with the immediate swagger drop of the bat. There's zero pressure now, but hopefully next year he can maintain this level after getting a nice raise in the winter.

[Matt213]

Thank you Blue Jays for making September 1st a good one for Yankees fans.

[inntents]

somethings wrong with Hill's defense this year. I wonder if its just cause he's taking his struggles at the plate with him out onto the field?
or has he always been a bad fielder? i don't recall him being that bad a fielder.

The last couple of years, he's been well above average, defensively.
I honestly think there is something going on with his eyes this year, affecting him defensively and offensively (HRs aside). All year he has been making all these faces at the plate, squinting, and then opening his eyes really wide and stretching his face, as if he has something in his eyes. Once in a while I can see, but he seems to do it an awful lot.
LASIK, Aaron?

[megalison]

lolz, among 2nd basemen, he's like 4th in homers. :lol:

Would really like to keep Johnny Mac and Dewayne Wise as utility players for the next little while.

Jose is having fun! Love it when he comes back after getting hit and cranks a no-doubter with the immediate swagger drop of the bat. There's zero pressure now, but hopefully next year he can maintain this level after getting a nice raise in the winter.

Would the Jays even be able to re-sign him? At the way he played he'll be getting a pretty big raise but at his age I don't think AA would be willing to commit huge money despite the production.

[Psubs]

Would the Jays even be able to re-sign him? At the way he played he'll be getting a pretty big raise but at his age I don't think AA would be willing to commit huge money despite the production.

He hasn't played nearly as many games as others his age, so health-wise he should be okay. Maybe a big 4 year deal with a team option 5th?

Overbay's time off is allowing Lind some time at 1B. :)

[La Fleur]

Looks like the Jays have sort of figured out the Rays this year . . . now they just need to figure out the Sox next year and then it's playoffs baby! With Johnny Mac and Wise willing to steal, they make decent utility players for the time being. Good to see Lind really get some time at first. Hill is still/will be one of the top second basemen, both defensively and offensively, next year, but has to step it up after big years by other 2-baggers like Cano, Uggla, Weeks, Phillips, etc. Wells still a premiere doubles-guy (4th in AL) and he should stick with that moneymaker. Another win for Romero, another solid outing for the young staff. Lots of moral victories tonight for Jays nation.

[Skip2MyLou]

Damn sucks I didn't get to watch this offensive explosion tonight.
Jays put up a 10 spot in the 6th, sending 14 to the plate.

Agreed about how Bautista get's revenge after getting hit at the previous at bat.
Freakin' monster.
He should be able to get 50 homeruns this year setting the blue jays new single season record.
Pretty amazing sight to see considering his size, compared to the rest of the homerun hitters in the league.
And so far NONE of his 43 homeruns have been to opposite field, all of his homeruns have been pulled to right field.

[White Comet]

Damn sucks I didn't get to watch this offensive explosion tonight.
Jays put up a 10 spot in the 6th, sending 14 to the plate.

Agreed about how Bautista get's revenge after getting hit at the previous at bat.
Freakin' monster.
He should be able to get 50 homeruns this year setting the blue jays new single season record.
Pretty amazing sight to see considering his size, compared to the rest of the homerun hitters in the league.
And so far NONE of his 43 homeruns have been to opposite field, all of his homeruns have been pulled to right field.

I agree with the size comment, guy looks tiny compared to say Fielder and Pujols. Even Wells looks bigger than him. But I'm still amazed that he hasn't been intentionally walked yet, not even once and you see his average slowly creeping up to .270, which is pretty amazing considering he's been around the 230-240 for quite a while

[angel_wing0]

He should be able to get 50 homeruns this year setting the blue jays new single season record.

agree, single season record is 47 by george bell. Jose is at 43 with 30 games remaining...should be a piece of cake~

[La Fleur]

Jays gotta hit 2.2-2.3 homers per game from here on out to beat the Mariners single season team HR record. I had my doubts last week, but as long as Johnny Mac is going yard every other day, hell, anything is possible!

[Skip2MyLou]

Is Johnny Mac trying to catch Bautista?

haha it's Johnny Mac, you gotta love this guy.
He's always ready to play and always ready to perform.
HR, Triple, HR in 3 games back to back.

[Havok22]

Snider sitting again. 1 more month! 1 more month! 1 more month! 1 more month!

[trellaine201]

I read on MLB trade rumors this morning that Overbay deal with Bosox was almost complete. I haven't received any twitter since.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/09/red-sox-rumors-overbay-victor-martinez.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Psubs]

I read on MLB trade rumors this morning that Overbay deal with Bosox was almost complete. I haven't received any twitter since.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/09/red-sox-rumors-overbay-victor-martinez.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Well that makes sense as didn't see any play that would lead to an injury.

Whoa, Johnny Mac's play gets him the start in the #2 slot. He gets a walk and steals 2nd!!!! :)

[White Comet]

Lind chokes again in important situation unable to hit that straight fastball up and away. Unfortunately Downs wasn't his usual self and we lose the game 2-1 :(

[Skip2MyLou]

Jesus Christ Adam Lind.
Why is this guy striking out every time he has two strikes against him.
All he had to do was make some contact, not a power swing and go for a homerun.
Pretty sad we can't play small ball for ****, runner on 3rd with 1 out and we don't manage to score the run.

[Skip2MyLou]

Wow big benches clearing brawl in the Nationals - Marlins game.
Chris Volstad threw behind Nyler Morgan twice. And Morgan charged the mound, the rest is history.

[Matt213]

Jesus Christ Adam Lind.
Why is this guy striking out every time he has two strikes against him.
All he had to do was make some contact, not a power swing and go for a homerun.
Pretty sad we can't play small ball for ****, runner on 3rd with 1 out and we don't manage to score the run.

How else do you strike out? :lol:

I really wonder how Bautista will do next year. Still hard to believe this guy leads the majors in home runs and it's the 1st of September.

[Skip2MyLou]

How else do you strike out? :lol:

I really wonder how Bautista will do next year. Still hard to believe this guy leads the majors in home runs and it's the 1st of September.

Lmfao, i meant every time he has two strikes against him, he cannot buy a hit. The pitcher always gets him chasing.

[megalison]

Wow big benches clearing brawl in the Nationals - Marlins game.
Chris Volstad threw behind Nyler Morgan twice. And Morgan charged the mound, the rest is history.

lol you left out the part where Morgan gets demolished by the first baseman.

[wszeto28]

How else do you strike out? :lol:

I really wonder how Bautista will do next year. Still hard to believe this guy leads the majors in home runs and it's the 1st of September.
I hope he follows up with a repeat performance next year. Went to the Jays-Tigers game this past weekend and honestly it is pretty exciting just to watch him bat. Everytime he made contact with the ball it was close to a home run. Hilarious that day when he tried to stretch a double into a triple.

[Matt213]

We finally hit Morrow today. Hopefully Tampa loses tonight.

[Manatus]

Is Johnny Mac the next platoon/back-up Blue Jay to become a hitting monster after being given regular playing time? Now that would be something!

[La Fleur]

Good lord, Cito, get Wells out of the clean up spot you dummy! Dude is swinging at beach balls!! Guaranteed any money, Snider will be benched tomorrow for his bad relay throw from the OF on Cervelli's gapper, since Cito needs any excuse to bench him.

[White Comet]

My goodness, get Wells out of that 4th spot ASAP. This is ridiculous. Bautista just got ejected, hoping to light up some fire and Wells promptly grounds into an inning-ending double play.

[Skip2MyLou]

Aroldis Chapman!!
Mr. 105 MPH

[La Fleur]

Who we thinking? Still hard to say in many respects, but I'm leaning toward the following (my picks first, then who I think will win)

AL MVP - Bautista! (no joke) / Hamilton
NL MVP - Carlos Gonzalez / Votto

AL Cy Young - Pavano or Price (undecided here) / Sabathia
NL Cy Young - Halladay / Jiminez

AL ROY - Neftali Feliz / Austin Jackson
NL ROY - Jaime Garcia or Buster Posey/ Posey

Reasoning is pretty simple. Bautista pretty much took over a clubhouse and made a team fun to watch again - his power #s are insane and if you ignore his sub-par, yet still respectable, average, this guy is not only the MVP of a terrible offensive team (aside from homers), but of the league. Was named AL player of the month twice or thrice now!! Buuuuuut, everyone loves what's gone on in Texas and avg. speaks volumes, so Hammy's pretty much got it in the bag.

NL is tough - I'm a huge fan of Votto. But, Cincy's a much better team in all respects and what CarGo is doing to get his Rockies in the playoffs for a last second run at Roxtober is ridiculous. Forget Ubaldo, this is the guy who should win an award. Incredible mix of speed and power. But a first run of playoffs for Cincy in what - 15 years or more - almost ensures Votto a piece of hardware.

AL Cy Young is also tough. On the one hand you gotta give kudos to Pavano. Pretty much tarnished in NY, comes out of nowhere and becomes the ace of the Twins, has 6 CG, and a respectable 16-10 record. Price on the flipside is the young ace on a young rotation who's been deadly all year. Unfortunately for both, CC's looking locked for 20 wins (a first for him), so it looks like he's just about guaranteed it. Not surprising, considering he gets tons of run support . . . just look at all the walks and homers he gives up, his team still pulls it out and wins are the almighty stat.

Ditto for NL. Jiminez needs to bomb to not get it and the way the Rockies are playing, he could get to 20 wins too. He's been the talk of the NL pitching ever since his no hitter, but Doc deserves it even more. The guy went a step up and threw a PG. He's on the fringe of double digits in CG this year. Sure his 17-10 record is not as nice looking, but Doc's been doing it with no run support and continuing to drop his ERA. Do the right thing people.

ROY is a tough call due to differences in number of at bats and games played. Feliz deserves it, but I think with Bailey winning last year, look for a hitter to win instead - namely, Austin Jackson. Shame, since Feliz has been outstanding and a big reason why Texas is #1. Pretty much a coin toss in the NL . . . Posey's got the edge and I'd be happy if he won, but Garcia has been equally brilliant. Probably the only one where I'll be happy either way. Considering that I think San Fran's got a better chance of the playoffs than St Louis, look for a Posey victory.

My 2 cents, agree, disagree?

[canabiz]

Fleur, for the AL ROY, I think Brennan Boesch should also garner some votes. He currently leads all AL Rookies with 14 homers I believe.

That kid Jason Heyward in Atlanta can certainly play and should also get some votes in the NL as well.

I'd love to see Doc picking up another Cy but he got some pretty good company this year in Jimenez, Josh Johnson of the Marlins and Adam Wainright of the Cardinals who has been absolutely lights-out.

On another note, It's September, the Jays is irrelevant (again) and I don't know how many people here follow the baseball playoff but it will be another unhappy ending for the long-suffering Jays fans. Oh well, at least football starts in 1 week and hockey training camp follows shortly. C'est la vie!

[trellaine201]

Hmmm in the off season would you trade Vernon Wells for Carlos Zambrano? Similar salaries. Both need a change. Both struggling/underachieving. Comparable ages. I think last summer there was grumblings of this suggestion.

I wonder if it would be re visited in some form.

[White Comet]

www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/09/la-russa-confirms-rasmus-trade-request.html

Seems like Colby Rasmus wants out of St Louis.

[trellaine201]

www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/09/la-russa-confirms-rasmus-trade-request.html

Seems like Colby Rasmus wants out of St Louis.

Gittr done AA. Give em snider as a
Starting pt.

[Merc with a Mouth]

Who we thinking? Still hard to say in many respects, but I'm leaning toward the following (my picks first, then who I think will win)

AL MVP - Bautista! (no joke) / Hamilton
NL MVP - Carlos Gonzalez / Votto

AL Cy Young - Pavano or Price (undecided here) / Sabathia
NL Cy Young - Halladay / Jiminez

AL ROY - Neftali Feliz / Austin Jackson
NL ROY - Jaime Garcia or Buster Posey/ Posey

Reasoning is pretty simple. Bautista pretty much took over a clubhouse and made a team fun to watch again - his power #s are insane and if you ignore his sub-par, yet still respectable, average, this guy is not only the MVP of a terrible offensive team (aside from homers), but of the league. Was named AL player of the month twice or thrice now!! Buuuuuut, everyone loves what's gone on in Texas and avg. speaks volumes, so Hammy's pretty much got it in the bag.

NL is tough - I'm a huge fan of Votto. But, Cincy's a much better team in all respects and what CarGo is doing to get his Rockies in the playoffs for a last second run at Roxtober is ridiculous. Forget Ubaldo, this is the guy who should win an award. Incredible mix of speed and power. But a first run of playoffs for Cincy in what - 15 years or more - almost ensures Votto a piece of hardware.

AL Cy Young is also tough. On the one hand you gotta give kudos to Pavano. Pretty much tarnished in NY, comes out of nowhere and becomes the ace of the Twins, has 6 CG, and a respectable 16-10 record. Price on the flipside is the young ace on a young rotation who's been deadly all year. Unfortunately for both, CC's looking locked for 20 wins (a first for him), so it looks like he's just about guaranteed it. Not surprising, considering he gets tons of run support . . . just look at all the walks and homers he gives up, his team still pulls it out and wins are the almighty stat.

Ditto for NL. Jiminez needs to bomb to not get it and the way the Rockies are playing, he could get to 20 wins too. He's been the talk of the NL pitching ever since his no hitter, but Doc deserves it even more. The guy went a step up and threw a PG. He's on the fringe of double digits in CG this year. Sure his 17-10 record is not as nice looking, but Doc's been doing it with no run support and continuing to drop his ERA. Do the right thing people.

ROY is a tough call due to differences in number of at bats and games played. Feliz deserves it, but I think with Bailey winning last year, look for a hitter to win instead - namely, Austin Jackson. Shame, since Feliz has been outstanding and a big reason why Texas is #1. Pretty much a coin toss in the NL . . . Posey's got the edge and I'd be happy if he won, but Garcia has been equally brilliant. Probably the only one where I'll be happy either way. Considering that I think San Fran's got a better chance of the playoffs than St Louis, look for a Posey victory.

My 2 cents, agree, disagree?

Your reasoning behind some of the guys you are leaning for and who you think will win has lots of holes.

AL MVP: Bautista is having a great season but really his HR's is the only thing that really stands out against Hamilton, that and a lead in RBI's. Hamilton is playing on a 1st place team and has an edge in more than just average.

Hamilton: .361 AVG/31 HR/97 RBI/.414 OBP/.635 SLG/1.049 OPS/94 R/183 H/40 2B/7.9 WAR

Bautista: .268 AVG/43 HR/103 RBI/.387 OBP/.618 SLG/1.004 OPS/91 R/126 H/30 2B/5.8 WAR

AL Cy Young: I hope you realize that Pavano is not even the best SP pitcher on the Twins. Liriano has a better FIP, xFIP, ERA, K/9, HR/9, K/BB, WAR. He also has a pretty good story about coming back for adversity but he won't win the CY. King Felix, Cliff Lee, and Jon Lester are all better than Price beyond W's. You're probably right about CC if he can get 20+ wins and get his ERA to under 3.

NL MVP: Gonzales is having a great season but the Padres losing streak is more to blame for the Rockies getting close than the Rockies or Gonzales. Votto edges him in important stats and again is on a 1st place team. Gonzales also has horrible #'s on the road, he is no doubt benefiting from playing in Coors. The numbers away and at home are not even comparable.

NL Cy Young: Halladay is already the front runner for the NL CY, you don't have to worry about that. It's Halladay who needs to bomb in order not to get it. He trounces Jiminez in just about everything.

AL/NL ROY: Your picks are not bad but I would add Heyward in the NL and Boesch in the AL for good measure.

Just my thoughts.

[_Jason_]

Your reasoning behind some of the guys you are leaning for and who you think will win has lots of holes.

AL MVP: Bautista is having a great season but really his HR's is the only thing that really stands out against Hamilton, that and a lead in RBI's. Hamilton is playing on a 1st place team and has an edge in more than just average.

Hamilton: .361 AVG/31 HR/97 RBI/.414 OBP/.635 SLG/1.049 OPS/94 R/183 H/40 2B/7.9 WAR

Bautista: .268 AVG/43 HR/103 RBI/.387 OBP/.618 SLG/1.004 OPS/91 R/126 H/30 2B/5.8 WAR

AL Cy Young: I hope you realize that Pavano is not even the best SP pitcher on the Twins. Liriano has a better FIP, xFIP, ERA, K/9, HR/9, K/BB, WAR. He also has a pretty good story about coming back for adversity but he won't win the CY. King Felix, Cliff Lee, and Jon Lester are all better than Price beyond W's. You're probably right about CC if he can get 20+ wins and get his ERA to under 3.

NL MVP: Gonzales is having a great season but the Padres losing streak is more to blame for the Rockies getting close than the Rockies or Gonzales. Votto edges him in important stats and again is on a 1st place team. Gonzales also has horrible #'s on the road, he is no doubt benefiting from playing in Coors. The numbers away and at home are not even comparable.

NL Cy Young: Halladay is already the front runner for the NL CY, you don't have to worry about that. It's Halladay who needs to bomb in order not to get it. He trounces Jiminez in just about everything.

AL/NL ROY: Your picks are not bad but I would add Heyward in the NL and Boesch in the AL for good measure.

Just my thoughts.

Pretty good choices.

for: AL MVP Hamilton (Bautista has good hr and rbi #'s but Hamilton is better in everything else and Tex is in first)
NL MVP I think it'll go to Votto or Pujols.
NL Cy Doc, tied for First in W, leading in IP, CG, K, very low ERA, WHIP, etc.
AL Cy could also be: Price, Cahill, Buccholz, Lester, Verlander, etc... Will be decided by their September performances.
AL ROTY Feliz (if he's still eligable), not too many breakout rookies this yr. Boesch would be next.
NL ROTY Latos (same as feliz)

Those are my choices

[La Fleur]

Definitely biased about Bautista, not gonna lie there. Just thought he deserves some award . . . maybe a new one? Breakout player of the year . . . the Milton Bradley award, they could call it. Hamilton definitely has the AL MVP almost wrapped up, but I'd toss a few other names out there as equally deserving: Adrian Beltre (contract year, go figure), Paul Konerko, Robinson Cano. The one thing I disagree with is the playoff bound nature of a team - I don't think that should have a big impact on MVP voting. Some teams would be awful without their MVP and the impact they have on the team is what should be rewarded, not whether they are good enough to take their team into the playoffs. Things like how clutch they are, how responsible for wins, etc. I'm a big fan of Hamilton, but he's played with Kinsler, Guererro, Andrus, Cruz, etc. who have all had great years and good stats, moreso than other teams.

As far as pitching goes, there are way too many stats to consider, but I just threw out a few I was thinking of. Yea, I'm aware Liriano is the other big ace, who most would consider the #1, and he's had quite a rebound year as well. Cahill is a personal favourite of mine, but some of his more outlying stats aren't quite as good.

As far as rookies go, I'm not too high on Heyward - statwise, not as impressed, but he's one of the few rookies who's played since opening day and has provided some pretty significant play for the Braves. I'd still lean toward Garcia though. Is Latos a rookie? I thought he's pitched before, but this was his first full season? If not, then he's definitely an automatic for me in the NL. Simply outstanding.

[La Fleur]

Wells on his typical September tear. Finally, Hill and Wells producing again. Jays 54 homers from history.

[Tomy]

Hmmm in the off season would you trade Vernon Wells for Carlos Zambrano? Similar salaries. Both need a change. Both struggling/underachieving. Comparable ages. I think last summer there was grumblings of this suggestion.

I wonder if it would be re visited in some form.

what? i rather have Vdub than a headcase.




btw, too bad MLB playoff format is a joke, or we'll be #7 seed right now and we're not even playing all our players too

[Tomy]

Definitely biased about Bautista, not gonna lie there. Just thought he deserves some award . . . maybe a new one? Breakout player of the year . . . the Milton Bradley award, they could call it. Hamilton definitely has the AL MVP almost wrapped up, but I'd toss a few other names out there as equally deserving: Adrian Beltre (contract year, go figure), Paul Konerko, Robinson Cano. The one thing I disagree with is the playoff bound nature of a team - I don't think that should have a big impact on MVP voting. Some teams would be awful without their MVP and the impact they have on the team is what should be rewarded, not whether they are good enough to take their team into the playoffs. Things like how clutch they are, how responsible for wins, etc. I'm a big fan of Hamilton, but he's played with Kinsler, Guererro, Andrus, Cruz, etc. who have all had great years and good stats, moreso than other teams.

As far as pitching goes, there are way too many stats to consider, but I just threw out a few I was thinking of. Yea, I'm aware Liriano is the other big ace, who most would consider the #1, and he's had quite a rebound year as well. Cahill is a personal favourite of mine, but some of his more outlying stats aren't quite as good.

As far as rookies go, I'm not too high on Heyward - statwise, not as impressed, but he's one of the few rookies who's played since opening day and has provided some pretty significant play for the Braves. I'd still lean toward Garcia though. Is Latos a rookie? I thought he's pitched before, but this was his first full season? If not, then he's definitely an automatic for me in the NL. Simply outstanding.

i don't know.. if we end up with a better record than TEX, we have a valid argument.. we're only 5 games behind and from looking at today's game, we'll be 4

[nano]

what? i rather have Vdub than a headcase.




btw, too bad MLB playoff format is a joke, or we'll be #7 seed right now and we're not even playing all our players too

yes the playoff structure really sucks. IMO, inter leauge play really messes with the Jays. The Yankees and Red Sox go on 10 game winning streaks during IL play and the Jays struggle to be a .500 team.

[blarg]

Hmmm I actually like this playoff system better than the NBA and NHL where like half the league makes the playoffs and you have sub .500 teams getting in. At least in baseball making the playoffs actually means something IMO

[Psubs]

Hmmm I actually like this playoff system better than then NBA and NHL where like half the league makes the playoffs and you have sub .500 teams getting in. At least in baseball making the playoffs actually means something IMO

Without a salary cap, it's still sucks.

[Shimso]

Hmmm I actually like this playoff system better than the NBA and NHL where like half the league makes the playoffs and you have sub .500 teams getting in. At least in baseball making the playoffs actually means something IMO

in the mlb the second best team in the league is going to get the wildcard & not have one series with home field advantage & face the best team in the league in the first round
and some teams with records good enough for top 4 in their league won't make the playoffs.

the mlb might even have a worse playoff system than the mls


it'd be so much better if the best two in the league got byes, and the next 4 best records made the playoffs.

[Psubs]

in the mlb the second best team in the league is going to get the wildcard & not have one series with home field advantage & face the best team in the league in the first round
and some teams with records good enough for top 4 in their league won't make the playoffs.

the mlb might even have a worse playoff system than the mls


it'd be so much better if the best two in the league got byes, and the next 4 best records made the playoffs.

Yes! All 3 division winners make the playoffs then the next 3 best records. The top 2 division winners get byes. After the first round, the top team plays the winner with the worse record and the 2nd best division leader plays the other winner.

1st round

NY - Bye
Minnesota - Bye

Tampa hosts Texas
Chicago hosts Boston


2nd round (winning by record)

NY hosts Chicago
Tampa hosts Minnesota

(If say Texas beat Tampa in the 1st round, Minnesota would host Chicago and Texas would travel to NY)

A little weird. Winning your division could get you a bye, but playing 162 games and having a better record than your opponent gets you home-field advantage.

[Tomy]

Hmmm I actually like this playoff system better than the NBA and NHL where like half the league makes the playoffs and you have sub .500 teams getting in. At least in baseball making the playoffs actually means something IMO

i dunno, i really hate the fact people are salary dumping and good teams are waiver claiming during august. it seems the team that has the money, not cap space can simply rent a grunt.

also, i dont like the fact that half the MLB teams are shutting it down 2 months early b/c they know they don't stand a chance. if it was a 8 seeded format, we would be cheering for the jays and morrow would still be pitching.

[Skip2MyLou]

mannn....cliff lee is missing his start tonight against the jays.
I was hoping to watch him pitch in person.

[Skip2MyLou]

Yes! All 3 division winners make the playoffs then the next 3 best records. The top 2 division winners get byes. After the first round, the top team plays the winner with the worse record and the 2nd best division leader plays the other winner.

1st round

NY - Bye
Minnesota - Bye

Tampa hosts Texas
Chicago hosts Boston


2nd round (winning by record)

NY hosts Chicago
Tampa hosts Minnesota

(If say Texas beat Tampa in the 1st round, Minnesota would host Chicago and Texas would travel to NY)

A little weird. Winning your division could get you a bye, but playing 162 games and having a better record than your opponent gets you home-field advantage.

A bye doesn't make sense in baseball to be honest, cause the top teams would be resting for up to a week without any play. In season teams only get 1-2 days off each month.
That would put them at a disadvantage as the hitters that were swinging hot bats will cool off.
And pitchers will become stiff with too much rest, and not in their usual pitching rotations.
There's not really a need to rest in baseball as it isn't a very demanding sport unlike football. And not as many injuries to heel.

So either keep it at 8 teams, or expand to 16.

[tighty whities]

A bye doesn't make sense in baseball to be honest, cause the top teams would be resting for up to a week without any play. In season teams only get 1-2 days off each month.
That would put them at a disadvantage as the hitters that were swinging hot bats will cool off.
And pitchers will become stiff with too much rest, and not in their usual pitching rotations.
There's not really a need to rest in baseball as it isn't a very demanding sport unlike football. And not as many injuries to heel.

So either keep it at 8 teams, or expand to 16.



I take it you've never played competitively (or even played baseball), extra rest for a pitcher does not lead to a stiff arm (I know because I used to pitch and play SS). It'll affect the hitters though.

These guys play 162 games, nagging sores/injuries get worse and there's no relief until the end of the season.. so I 'm not sure how you say it's not demanding
I've played in a few 40 game seasons in College and that was taxing enough.

[Merc with a Mouth]

in the mlb the second best team in the league is going to get the wildcard & not have one series with home field advantage & face the best team in the league in the first round
and some teams with records good enough for top 4 in their league won't make the playoffs.

the mlb might even have a worse playoff system than the mls


it'd be so much better if the best two in the league got byes, and the next 4 best records made the playoffs.

I'm assuming your talking about the Rays. They cannot face the Yankees in the first round since the wildcard team (#4 seed) cannot play the #1 seed if they are from the same division. As of now it would be:

Rangers (#3) vs Yankees (#1)

Rays (#4) vs Twins (#2)

[Skip2MyLou]

I take it you've never played competitively (or even played baseball), extra rest for a pitcher does not lead to a stiff arm (I know because I used to pitch and play SS). It'll affect the hitters though.

These guys play 162 games, nagging sores/injuries get worse and there's no relief until the end of the season.. so I 'm not sure how you say it's not demanding
I've played in a few 40 game seasons in College and that was taxing enough.

I've played baseball, but I haven't pitched before. It was just an assumption, cause I see pitchers in the MLB after skipping a start and having long rest usually have a bad game.
I do know that hitters will cool off, given a lot of rest.

Do you not think there's a reason why teams play nearly everyday during the season and require no break.
It just doesn't make sense to have a one week layoff, to begin the playoffs.
Take into account that the teams that have already clinched playoff spots will not be playing their starters for the majority of games in the last week or 2 weeks of the season. So they already have enough rest going into the playoffs.

[tighty whities]

I've played baseball, but I haven't pitched before. It was just an assumption, cause I see pitchers in the MLB after skipping a start and having long rest usually have a bad game.
I do know that hitters will cool off, given a lot of rest.

Do you not think there's a reason why teams play nearly everyday during the season and require no break.
It just doesn't make sense to have a one week layoff, to begin the playoffs.
Take into account that the teams that have already clinched playoff spots will not be playing their starters for the majority of games in the last week or 2 weeks of the season. So they already have enough rest going into the playoffs.

I didn't say it made sense to have a layoff... you were saying things that made absolutely no sense, i.e. stiff arm with extra rest, that the sport isn't demanding.

Well, I meant played at a competitive level, not weekend warriors or slowpitch... then you would understand the grind

[Psubs]

Another 3+ hr game. :razz:

Edit: That's homers not hours. lol

[grappos13]

^ we hit 4 homers!

[Maxman]

The Jays must be hours away from being officially eliminated - as Wells is doing his usual September tear - 3/3, 2 HR.Where was he in July and August?

[Psubs]

^ we hit 4 homers!

215 hr's in 138 games.

50 homers to go in 24 games for the record?

[Skip2MyLou]

I didn't say it made sense to have a layoff... you were saying things that made absolutely no sense, i.e. stiff arm with extra rest, that the sport isn't demanding.

Well, I meant played at a competitive level, not weekend warriors or slowpitch... then you would understand the grind

okay fine, the sport is demanding.
But it is still no where near as demanding as all of the other top sports out there (basketball, football, hockey, soccer). Compared to those, baseball is a walk in the park.
Think about it, why do they play 162 games in a season? twice as much as basketball and hockey, and 10 times as much as football and soccer.
Half the games, players are in the dugout sitting on the bench, then they go and stand on the field. Once in awhile, they'll get up and have an at bat, and run around if they actually get on base, which they will only get on base on average 2/5 times at the most.
The only demanding positions in baseball are the pitcher and the catcher.

I'm not hating on baseball, it's one of my favourite sports, but the truth is the truth.

[Psubs]

okay fine, the sport is demanding.
But it is still no where near as demanding as all of the other top sports out there (basketball, football, hockey, soccer). Compared to those, baseball is a walk in the park.
Think about it, why do they play 162 games in a season? twice as much as basketball and hockey, and 10 times as much as football and soccer.
Half the games, players are in the dugout sitting on the bench, then they go and stand on the field. Once in awhile, they'll get up and have an at bat, and run around if they actually get on base, which they will only get on base on average 2/5 times at the most.
The only demanding positions in baseball are the pitcher and the catcher.

I'm not hating on baseball, it's one of my favourite sports, but the truth is the truth.

Starters occasionally skip starts if there's a little soreness. With the expanded rosters you can have a split squad simulated game or 2 for the healthy guys. Have the first round be a best of 5.

[canabiz]

okay fine, the sport is demanding.
But it is still no where near as demanding as all of the other top sports out there (basketball, football, hockey, soccer). Compared to those, baseball is a walk in the park.
Think about it, why do they play 162 games in a season? twice as much as basketball and hockey, and 10 times as much as football and soccer.
Half the games, players are in the dugout sitting on the bench, then they go and stand on the field. Once in awhile, they'll get up and have an at bat, and run around if they actually get on base, which they will only get on base on average 2/5 times at the most.
The only demanding positions in baseball are the pitcher and the catcher.

I'm not hating on baseball, it's one of my favourite sports, but the truth is the truth.

+1. There is no comparison for athleticism between baseball and the other sports, namely basketball, hockey and soccer. You may see the occasional highlight reels by Derek Jeter and Carl Crawford but they are few and far in between.

I mean just look at David Wells and his gut. Or even C.C. Sabathia, not saying they are not good athletes but I doubt they can last a half in a soccer game or a period in hockey. Can Crosby or Ronaldo do well in baseball? It's debatable but I know those guys are always in good shape.

Baseball is the only sport I know that play double-header. That pretty much sums it up.

[Maxman]

okay fine, the sport is demanding.
But it is still no where near as demanding as all of the other top sports out there (basketball, football, hockey, soccer). Compared to those, baseball is a walk in the park.
Think about it, why do they play 162 games in a season? twice as much as basketball and hockey, and 10 times as much as football and soccer.
Half the games, players are in the dugout sitting on the bench, then they go and stand on the field. Once in awhile, they'll get up and have an at bat, and run around if they actually get on base, which they will only get on base on average 2/5 times at the most.
The only demanding positions in baseball are the pitcher and the catcher.

I'm not hating on baseball, it's one of my favourite sports, but the truth is the truth.


Clearly, you have never played a ball game that lasted 4 hours in 36C heat, only to play another the next day, and the next day!

If you actually watch a game - not on TV - you will see that players are on the move all the time. Quick sprints, stops and starts for 3 hours is pretty typical.

I've played competitive ball and competitive hockey - and baseball is more physically demanding on a day-to-day basis. Coasting around on skates isn't as hard as it looks.

[Maxman]

+1. There is no comparison for athleticism between baseball and the other sports, namely basketball, hockey and soccer. You may see the occasional highlight reels by Derek Jeter and Carl Crawford but they are few and far in between.

I mean just look at David Wells and his gut. Or even C.C. Sabathia, not saying they are not good athletes but I doubt they can last a half in a soccer game or a period in hockey. Can Crosby or Ronaldo do well in baseball? It's debatable but I know those guys are always in good shape.

Baseball is the only sport I know that play double-header. That pretty much sums it up.


So, you could beat Wells in a sprint, but could you turn on a 95 mile per hour fastball, or stand-in against a 80MPH curveball that starts at your head and drops across the plate? Or how about a forkball or splitter that drops a foot over the last ten - and is travelling at 85 MPH! Could you catch a 110MPH line drive 10 feet to your right, get up, spin and turn a double play?

Or maybe you could be a reliever, pitch only one inning 4/7 days, but throw your fastball in the mid 90's, plus a 85+ slider, and change-up. Spend a year rehabbing after TJ surgery, only to do it all over again.

The quickness required to be even an average ball-player is unbelievable compared to all other sports. And you have to be quick for 162 games in a season, with very few off days.

Unless you've played ball, everyday - including the hours of practice - I don't think you can appreciate how physically difficult the sport is.

[LondonTown]

+1. There is no comparison for athleticism between baseball and the other sports, namely basketball, hockey and soccer. You may see the occasional highlight reels by Derek Jeter and Carl Crawford but they are few and far in between.

I mean just look at David Wells and his gut. Or even C.C. Sabathia, not saying they are not good athletes but I doubt they can last a half in a soccer game or a period in hockey. Can Crosby or Ronaldo do well in baseball? It's debatable but I know those guys are always in good shape.

Baseball is the only sport I know that play double-header. That pretty much sums it up.

It's not debatable, they'd be terrible at baseball.

[tighty whities]

+1. There is no comparison for athleticism between baseball and the other sports, namely basketball, hockey and soccer. You may see the occasional highlight reels by Derek Jeter and Carl Crawford but they are few and far in between.

I mean just look at David Wells and his gut. Or even C.C. Sabathia, not saying they are not good athletes but I doubt they can last a half in a soccer game or a period in hockey. Can Crosby or Ronaldo do well in baseball? It's debatable but I know those guys are always in good shape.

Baseball is the only sport I know that play double-header. That pretty much sums it up.

um... lack of cardio or a lower amount of highlight reel play time does not mean a lack of athleticism. How many NFL players can last half a game on the pitch? Many players are drafted into baseball as highly touted basketball and or football players based on their raw tools alone, but the majority flame out in the minors.

So based on the cardio argument, marathon runners are better athletes than the players in the sports you mentioned (basketball, hockey and soccer). Plus, they might might do well in hockey and soccer because they are in good shape.

Football is the only sport I know where the fatter the better, that's says it all for me.

[Maxman]

Michael Jordan - the greatest basketball player EVER - had a horrible 11 errors and .952 fielding % in the minors. He batted a measly .202 in 127 games. Yet, he was on the highlight reels most nights!

The hardest thing to do in any sport is to hit a round ball with a round bat.

[La Fleur]

215 hr's in 138 games.

50 homers to go in 24 games for the record?

It's gonna be so tight . . . slightly over 2 a game. It'll boil down to a few things. Playing at home will be a huge benefit, with home advantage, good home splits for some of their hitters, and generally hitter friendly diamond. The guys who needed to get hot to help the record are doing it: Hill, Lind, and Wells. Bautista is almost a shoe-in to reach 50 homers, so you can expect another 7 from him. Basically the rest of their hitters will make the difference. McDonald going yard a few times helps. Buck still playing at his pre-All Star level helps. Really wish Snider played more as no doubt he'd have hit 20 or more homers this year. Arencibia has the power, but like Snider, his inconsistent playing time isn't helping. No Morrow hopefully means less of Molina, as he doesn't contribute much in the HR department. A toss-up between Wise and Lewis, but both have some pop. Overbay and Encarnacion are the X-factors . . . Overbay could hit 20, as he was playing well. Encarnacion has the power to hit 20, but once again not living up to expectations because of slumping streaks and health.

I really, really hope they do it . . . would put an exclamation mark on the season and be a nice little last hurrah for Cito.

Some predictions if they do it:

Bautista - 50 (43) +7
Wells - 32 (27) +5
Hill - 29 (23) +6
Lind - 24 (20) +4
Overbay - 21 (17) +4
Buck - 21 (17) +4
Encarnacion - 14 (13) +1 . . . . not sure if he'll be back before end of season, but he usually has a mini tear whenever he returns so this could be more
Snider - 14 (9) +5
Lewis - 10 (8) +2
Escobar - 8 (4) +4
McDonald - 7 (6) +1
Wise - 4 (3) +1
Arencibia 4 (2) +2

. . . . ? + 4 (McCoy, Jacobs, Molina, ballboy???)

Hopefully Bautista hits 10, since some of these guys might not get playing time (Arencibia) or will regress (McDonald). Get Jacobs in there and he could hit 5 this month!

[Maxman]

Bautista - 50 (43) +7
Wells - 32 (27) +5
Hill - 29 (23) +6
Lind - 24 (20) +4
Overbay - 21 (17) +4
Buck - 21 (17) +4
Encarnacion - 14 (13) +1 . . . . not sure if he'll be back before end of season, but he usually has a mini tear whenever he returns so this could be more
Snider - 14 (9) +5
Lewis - 10 (8) +2
Escobar - 8 (4) +4
McDonald - 7 (6) +1
Wise - 4 (3) +1
Arencibia 4 (2) +2

. . . . ? + 4 (McCoy, Jacobs, Molina, ballboy???)

Hopefully Bautista hits 10, since some of these guys might not get playing time (Arencibia) or will regress (McDonald). Get Jacobs in there and he could hit 5 this month!



Hmmm, I'd like to see them do it because I'm a Jays fan, but at the same time I hope they fail because its almost like a badge of honour or validation of Cito's management style (wait for one pitch and swing from the heels)!

That said, they only have 24 games left, and many of those games are against playoff contending team (Minn, TB, NYY, RedSox?, Texas). Not sure how many of those teams will let Bautista swing freely if the game is close. Then teams like Baltimore and Seattle will likely be throwing some rookies out late in the year - not sure they'll want to challenge Bautista, so I'm thinking that he may not make 50. Its kind of telling that he's hitting .150 in Sept with no homers, 2RBI while at the same time, Wells is hitting .381 with 4HR and 8RBI over the same time. It seems like teams are pitching around Bautista and letting Wells hit the good pitches.

[La Fleur]

Hmmm, I'd like to see them do it because I'm a Jays fan, but at the same time I hope they fail because its almost like a badge of honour or validation of Cito's management style (wait for one pitch and swing from the heels)!

That said, they only have 24 games left, and many of those games are against playoff contending team (Minn, TB, NYY, RedSox?, Texas). Not sure how many of those teams will let Bautista swing freely if the game is close. Then teams like Baltimore and Seattle will likely be throwing some rookies out late in the year - not sure they'll want to challenge Bautista, so I'm thinking that he may not make 50. Its kind of telling that he's hitting .150 in Sept with no homers, 2RBI while at the same time, Wells is hitting .381 with 4HR and 8RBI over the same time. It seems like teams are pitching around Bautista and letting Wells hit the good pitches.

I don't think it's a badge of validation for Cito . . . I agree his coaching style needs to go, but if he manages to muscle his way back into managing next year, it's all on Rogers'/Beeston/AA's shoulders. They have the power, so really just call this a bridge year, some new possibilities were explored (i.e. we can hit homers), and hopefully they break the record, then next year, bye Cito and play for playoffs, not a one trick pony.

September is the hardest month for sure - agree that playoff teams, plus September call-ups, plus rookies = really hard to be consistent. Still, the Jays have done well offensively against teams like Tampa, NY and Boston, despite losing, so I say they'll still hit plenty of longbombs, they just might not win all of those games.

[Psubs]

I hope that they tie the record, so they have something to aim for in the future. :lol:

Would make the final game of the season pretty fun with everyone upper-cutting stuff. :razz:

[Maxman]

I hope that they tie the record, so they have something to aim for in the future. :lol:

Would make the final game of the season pretty fun with everyone upper-cutting stuff. :razz:

Haven't they been doing that all year anyway?

[White Comet]

Tonight's game was so boring, so frustrating to watch. I don't know about you guys, but once that line-up for Toronto was revealed, I pretty much knew it was game over and Cito handing Ron Washington a freebie. I mean, Mike McCoy at LF? Jarret Hoffpauir at 3B? Mark Rzep pitching on 3 days rest when he's struggling mightily over his past 4-5 starts? I mean come on. Where's JP Arencibia and Travis Snider? This LHP stat is ridiculous as Cito tried to stack his line-up with right handed hitters but it failed ultimately as the Jays lose 8-1. Jay hitters need to stop being pull happy, 3 more weeks of Cito baseball and then I hope we get a manager that has a clue of how to lead the ball club

[Maxman]

Tonight's game was so boring, so frustrating to watch. I don't know about you guys, but once that line-up for Toronto was revealed, I pretty much knew it was game over and Cito handing Ron Washington a freebie. I mean, Mike McCoy at LF? Jarret Hoffpauir at 3B? Mark Rzep pitching on 3 days rest when he's struggling mightily over his past 4-5 starts? I mean come on. Where's JP Arencibia and Travis Snider? This LHP stat is ridiculous as Cito tried to stack his line-up with right handed hitters but it failed ultimately as the Jays lose 8-1. Jay hitters need to stop being pull happy, 3 more weeks of Cito baseball and then I hope we get a manager that has a clue of how to lead the ball club

Thank God ROGERS doesn't allow me to watch many of their games anymore! Sounds like a AAA lineup.

I was thinking about the end of Cito the other day, and who I'd like to see replace him, and the only name that I want to see is Felipe Alou! Good, fundamental baseball! But I fear that they will cheap out and get an "up and comer" (new, young GM afraid to lose power) or a retread a la Jim Fregosi!

[Skip2MyLou]

+1. There is no comparison for athleticism between baseball and the other sports, namely basketball, hockey and soccer. You may see the occasional highlight reels by Derek Jeter and Carl Crawford but they are few and far in between.

I mean just look at David Wells and his gut. Or even C.C. Sabathia, not saying they are not good athletes but I doubt they can last a half in a soccer game or a period in hockey. Can Crosby or Ronaldo do well in baseball? It's debatable but I know those guys are always in good shape.

Baseball is the only sport I know that play double-header. That pretty much sums it up.

LOL speaking of Crosby.
He took batting practice with the Pittsburgh Pirates today. And he faired pretty well, even hitting a homerun.

[tighty whities]

LOL speaking of Crosby.
He took batting practice with the Pittsburgh Pirates today. And he faired pretty well, even hitting a homerun.


batting practice pitches come in at approx 70mph, with no movement. Not indicative of baseball skills if that's what you're getting it.
You should know this from your experience playing baseball :confused:

[Psubs]

batting practice pitches come in at approx 70mph, with no movement. Not indicative of baseball skills if that's what you're getting it.
You should know this from your experience playing baseball :confused:

What's impressive is he hasn't played since he was 13 and hit the ball 375 feet.

[wszeto28]

What's impressive is he hasn't played since he was 13 and hit the ball 375 feet.
He should pull a Michael Jordan and try out for the Pirates lol. They could use the help anyways!

[nano]

Thank God ROGERS doesn't allow me to watch many of their games anymore! Sounds like a AAA lineup.

I was thinking about the end of Cito the other day, and who I'd like to see replace him, and the only name that I want to see is Felipe Alou! Good, fundamental baseball! But I fear that they will cheap out and get an "up and comer" (new, young GM afraid to lose power) or a retread a la Jim Fregosi!

I have a gut feeling that the Jays will promote within. I would be stunned if Nick Leyva is named the new manager.

[Tomy]

He should pull a Michael Jordan and try out for the Pirates lol. They could use the help anyways!

yea mind as well. it'll get more ticket sales even if crosby strikes out 90% of the time

[blexann]

batting practice pitches come in at approx 70mph, with no movement. Not indicative of baseball skills if that's what you're getting it.
You should know this from your experience playing baseball :confused:

do you know how hard it is hitting a homerun ? In fact it is no easier hitting a BP fastball than a game fastball. The BP fastball is comming in much slower and YOU have to generate the power to hit it out. It is actuall very impressive if he did hit a HR.

[tighty whities]

do you know how hard it is hitting a homerun ? In fact it is no easier hitting a BP fastball than a game fastball. The BP fastball is comming in much slower and YOU have to generate the power to hit it out. It is actuall very impressive if he did hit a HR.

yes I do. I played D2 and senior baseball for the Moosehead Dry.

It is easier to hit a BP fastball for a home run, especially considering: a) there is no movement on the fastball and b) you know what's coming (no offspeed or breaking pitches).

[Maxman]

do you know how hard it is hitting a homerun ? In fact it is no easier hitting a BP fastball than a game fastball. The BP fastball is comming in much slower and YOU have to generate the power to hit it out. It is actuall very impressive if he did hit a HR.

It is way easier to hit a BP fastball - thrown at 60-70MPH down the middle of the plate, when you know its coming, than a 95MPH fastball that follows a 80MPH changeup or 85 MPH slider. Can't even compare the two! And its not about generating "power", its about bat speed - any good hockey player or golfer should be able to swing a bat fast enough to hit a home run.

[blexann]

yes I do. I played D2 and senior baseball for the Moosehead Dry.

It is easier to hit a BP fastball for a home run, especially considering: a) there is no movement on the fastball and b) you know what's coming (no offspeed or breaking pitches).

I was just trying to make a point that what Crosby did was impresive - BP or not. And btw, what postition did you play ?

[blexann]

... And its not about generating "power", its about bat speed - any good hockey player or golfer should be able to swing a bat fast enough to hit a home run.

That is just not true. Do you know that by the time a player has been drafted into the majors he has probably taken hundreds of thousands of swings? Then you’re saying that you can take a hockey player or golfer and expect him to hit a home run. Crosby played baseball up until age 13 and no one else during that BP session was able to do what he did. I wont argue with you about your bat speed theory but I will say that you can have blazing bat speed and never hit the ball if you have crappy mechanics and bad hand eye coordination. Many major leaguers have great bat speed and hit very few home runs.

[tighty whities]

I was just trying to make a point that what Crosby did was impresive - BP or not. And btw, what postition did you play ?

I pitched while in D2. For the Dry, I was used primarily as a pitcher and to a lesser extent SS.

[blexann]

I pitched while in D2. For the Dry, I was used primarily as a pitcher and to a lesser extent SS.

nice! It takes alot to get to that level of ball. You should know how hard it is to hit a home run. I'm sure youve seen many BP seessions where players struggle like hell to hit the ball even to the warning track and Crosby was able to do it on the 15 swing.

[Spray]

Jays just grabbed Taylor Buchholz off waivers from Rockies. Only two years removed from being one of the best up and coming relievers...coming off TJ. Should be a stud next year.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=793

[Maxman]

That is just not true. Do you know that by the time a player has been drafted into the majors he has probably taken hundreds of thousands of swings? Then you’re saying that you can take a hockey player or golfer and expect him to hit a home run. Crosby played baseball up until age 13 and no one else during that BP session was able to do what he did. I wont argue with you about your bat speed theory but I will say that you can have blazing bat speed and never hit the ball if you have crappy mechanics and bad hand eye coordination. Many major leaguers have great bat speed and hit very few home runs.


You stated that it is about "power", when indeed it is about "bat speed". Hand-eye coordination relates to contact and has nothing to do with bat speed or "power". A slap hitter can have better "hand-eye" than a power hitter, or vice versa. Mechanics relates to bat speed in that proper mechanics leads to better bad speed. Mechanics also leads to more contact, which leads to a higher chance of hitting a home run.

The reason that "bigger" players tend to be power hitters relates to their ability to swing faster, swing a heavier bat, and wait later to swing on a ball. It has little to do with their size or weight. For example, Hank Aaron was not a very big man.

Golf and hockey are about generating speed through the ball/puck - that same as baseball. It also requires good hand-eye, therefore, the ability to hit a baseball, and hit a homerun, is more likely to exist in someone who plays these sports than say, a football player.

[Maxman]

nice! It takes alot to get to that level of ball. You should know how hard it is to hit a home run. I'm sure youve seen many BP seessions where players struggle like hell to hit the ball even to the warning track and Crosby was able to do it on the 15 swing.

Well, generally speaking, a player who attempts to hit home runs in BP, but isn't normally a HR hitter (like a John MacDonald) is likely to enter a prolonged slump - so its not often you see guys hitting to the warning track unless they are hitting line drives. BP is about doing what you normally do, and doing it consistently (repitition of motion - like creating muscle memory). Most players spend more time working off a tee or against the fence than hitting BP.

[trellaine201]

Jays need to re-sign Bautista! Snider sucks. No consistently and makes mistakes in the field. I say we really need a good/solid/proven fielder for next year.

[Skip2MyLou]

Jays just grabbed Taylor Buchholz off waivers from Rockies. Only two years removed from being one of the best up and coming relievers...coming off TJ. Should be a stud next year.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=793

agreed. great pick up by the jays.
Let's hope AA gets rid of some of the old garbage we have in the bullpen (tallet, janssen)

[Manatus]

The 'dome was depressingly empty this evening. Really sparse and no atmosphere even though the roof was closed. One of the ushers near my section was trying to get a chant going unsuccessfully. It's a shame how much it has dropped off from the 25k+ attendances that we were getting for a while.

[Skip2MyLou]

The 'dome was depressingly empty this evening. Really sparse and no atmosphere even though the roof was closed. One of the ushers near my section was trying to get a chant going unsuccessfully. It's a shame how much it has dropped off from the 25k+ attendances that we were getting for a while.

yeah, thats what happens when school starts and the weather starts becoming cold.
I'm expecting the weekend series to be more packed tho, playing the Rays and it's the weekend.

At least we kept the homerun streak alive and Jose hit his 44th.

[Psubs]

Jays just grabbed Taylor Buchholz off waivers from Rockies. Only two years removed from being one of the best up and coming relievers...coming off TJ. Should be a stud next year.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=793

Good news. Can let crap go and decent ones walk and get sandwich picks for them. :twisted:

[canabiz]

The 'dome was depressingly empty this evening. Really sparse and no atmosphere even though the roof was closed. One of the ushers near my section was trying to get a chant going unsuccessfully. It's a shame how much it has dropped off from the 25k+ attendances that we were getting for a while.

That's the nature of the game, when you are winning and contending, you will see lots of fans. True fans will support the team through thick and thin but as another poster alluded to: school is back and first NFL game was on tonight. I hope the players are still earning their paycheques because the last thing you want to see is them going through the motions.

According to this chart, Toronto is 25 out of 30 teams in terms of home attendance

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

[vchan81]

I just hope the Jays don't overpay for Bautista. He has only really done it for one year (and in a contract year as well).

[tighty whities]

I just hope the Jays don't overpay for Bautista. He has only really done it for one year (and in a contract year as well).

Bautista is still under team control next year, so they can wait to see how he performs next year before deciding to extend him.

[Maxman]

Bautista is still under team control next year, so they can wait to see how he performs next year before deciding to extend him.

True, but he's arbitration eligible - lord knows what he's going to get. They may be better off trying to sign him to a four year contract at a decent price, than take the risk of a one year arbitration ruling and then letting him walk the following year as an FA.

The scary part is his stats this year and the end of last compared to every year before that. If you look at baseball-reference.com for his comparables (other players with similar stats through this age/experience), there aren't a lot of guys on that list that you'd take a chance on.

Even if the contract blows up, and he reverts to a back-up, he's still pretty valuable as a 3B, OF, 1B, DH. Much better than a Johnny Mac or, or, or!

[tighty whities]

True, but he's arbitration eligible - lord knows what he's going to get. They may be better off trying to sign him to a four year contract at a decent price, than take the risk of a one year arbitration ruling and then letting him walk the following year as an FA.

The scary part is his stats this year and the end of last compared to every year before that. If you look at baseball-reference.com for his comparables (other players with similar stats through this age/experience), there aren't a lot of guys on that list that you'd take a chance on.

Even if the contract blows up, and he reverts to a back-up, he's still pretty valuable as a 3B, OF, 1B, DH. Much better than a Johnny Mac or, or, or!

My point being, this isn't his walk year.
When people say contract year, they aren't referring to arbitration year is what I'm getting at.

[Maxman]

My point being, this isn't his walk year.
When people say contract year, they aren't referring to arbitration year is what I'm getting at.

Fair enough - he can't walk, but he sure as heck drove up his arbitration numbers. I honestly wouldn't want to be the arbitrator that has to decide the valeu of a guy who has been a career back-up, then explodes with 54 homers over his last calendar year!

[tighty whities]

Fair enough - he can't walk, but he sure as heck drove up his arbitration numbers. I honestly wouldn't want to be the arbitrator that has to decide the valeu of a guy who has been a career back-up, then explodes with 54 homers over his last calendar year!

Interesting to see how that works out.

On a side note: I'm definitely not a fan of his attitude (bat flips) after he connects. Surprised pitchers around the league put up with it.

[Maxman]

Interesting to see how that works out.

On a side note: I'm definitely not a fan of his attitude (bat flips) after he connects. Surprised pitchers around the league put up with it.

I don't like that either - but it seems to have started during the Yankees series (or at least thats when I first noticed it) after they brushed him back and hit him. Its good to see a little intensity though - not like the smiling you get from Wells after yet another pop-up or DP. I wish they would sign a player like Matt Holiday or even Jim Edmonds for one year - just to show the young guys to play hard.

[Skip2MyLou]

Interesting to see how that works out.

On a side note: I'm definitely not a fan of his attitude (bat flips) after he connects. Surprised pitchers around the league put up with it.

he really only does it when he's pissed off.
it's crazy how you see him respond after an at-bat where he doesn't like the way he's being pitched inside (too close) and when he got hit in the back recently in tampa.
He responds with a homerun and then stares the pitcher down as he runs to first.

[dragon_drift]

he really only does it when he's pissed off.
it's crazy how you see him respond after an at-bat where he doesn't like the way he's being pitched inside (too close) and when he got hit in the back recently in tampa.
He responds with a homerun and then stares the pitcher down as he runs to first.

lol so badass

[nano]

Jose doesn't have an attitude. I think he wants to be a team leader in Toronto he has found a place to play everyday. Its a stadium he can hit a lot of home runs in.

[trellaine201]

Bombista with two more HR tonight. 8-8 now. I thought he would slow down lol but apparently not. Fun to watch.

[nano]

wow...... i hope this goes to extra innings i feel bad for those without sports net 1 this a great game

[trellaine201]

wow...... i hope this goes to extra innings i feel bad for those without sports net 1 this a great game

Or other providers but yes what a shame, you would think they want to promote their channel and the Jays etc. Good game for that,

[grappos13]

damn u escobar.. terrible... did NOT need to throw that... go jays in the bottom of the 9th!

[rdtx2002]

Jays need to re-sign Bautista! Snider sucks. No consistently and makes mistakes in the field. I say we really need a good/solid/proven fielder for next year.

boo Hoo.. our 22 year old Travis Snider sucks.. let the kid develop.. he belongs in the Majors

what were you expecting?.. Albert Pujols out from the gate?

[Skip2MyLou]

damn u escobar.. terrible... did NOT need to throw that... go jays in the bottom of the 9th!

he's been making some horrible throws to first lately. For someone with such a great arm and considered a great defensive shortstop, he's having trouble throwing to the pitcher on the run and throwing on the run himself.

Walks are so killer, camp walks 2 but was lucky to get the DP ball. Gregg walks 2 and he got the DP ball, but defense couldn't execute.

Anyways, despite the loss, it was a great game. We had no business being in this game after a 6-0 first inning lead by Tampa Bay.
But Jose Bautista and Co. made it very interesting.
Jose only needs 1 more to tie George Bell for the Blue Jays record for homeruns in a season (47).

[blarg]

boo Hoo.. our 22 year old Travis Snider sucks.. let the kid develop.. he belongs in the Majors

what were you expecting?.. Albert Pujols out from the gate?

Albert Pujols was Albert Pujols out from the gate :lol:

[trellaine201]

Snider does suck. He looks awful at the plate and not much better in the field. I bet AA tries to trade him in the off season. Depending on what his value is of course. He won't give him away.

[canabiz]

I say give Snider 1 more full season next year and we will see how that goes. Maybe he will flourish under the tutelage of a new manager since Cito won't be back next year.

If he doesn't pan out next year and by that I simply mean a decent season of .270+ average, 20+ homers and 80+ RBIs with some outfield assists and minimal errors then he could be another Russ Adams.

I don't think it's too much to expect Snider to have those kind of numbers with a full season under his belt (400+ ABs).

[trellaine201]

I say give Snider 1 more full season next year and we will see how that goes. Maybe he will flourish under the tutelage of a new manager since Cito won't be back next year.

If he doesn't pan out next year and by that I simply mean a decent season of .270+ average, 20+ homers and 80+ RBIs with some outfield assists and minimal errors then he could be another Russ Adams.

I don't think it's too much to expect Snider to have those kind of numbers with a full season under his belt (400+ ABs).

Speaking more about Snider, I thought and I could be" totally wrong" but about a year or so ago I thought their was an article on how he is a bit hard to coach.

[La Fleur]

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/5244/why-pete-roses-record-will-stand

Interesting article. What do you guys think about this records? I think if Ichiro played in the MLB at age 22, rather than age 28, he could have come pretty close to 4000 hits. He's got speed and durability and would get tons of playing time due to popularity, good attitude and his position as an outfielder. Same applies to Jeter, but this year kind of puts a lot of doubt if he can sustain his ability. No one else is really close . . . Pujols, Crawford, they are really good, but I don't think they are going at a high enough clip to do it. I do think it's a beatable record though.

Some of the others are for sure never going to be broken. Most CG and wins are impossible in this day and age, along with shutouts and a ton of other pitching records. Most of the managerial ones as well, due to practicality and the instant gratification nature of our culture. Stolen bases will be really tough - Crawford and Pierre will come the closest, but a lot of teams don't play small ball as much, so you'd have to get someone extremely gifted in running . . . I can see it being broken, but not by much, if it ever happens. King Felix has a legit shot at beating Ryan's strikeout record . . . another really tough one, but I think it'll be broken.

[blexann]

Speaking more about Snider, I thought and I could be" totally wrong" but about a year or so ago I thought their was an article on how he is a bit hard to coach.

trust me when I tell you that there is no truth to that.

[Madchester]

Drabek is starting on Wed against the Orioles.

[trellaine201]

Drabek is starting on Wed against the Orioles.

Sportnet One? lol

[White Comet]

GG Lind walk-off homer against Rafael Soriano

[megalison]

Haha that was sweet, when the Rays sacrificed in that run I was ready to turn off the TV...

[Psubs]

Drabek is starting on Wed against the Orioles.

:-0

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/mlb/bluejays/article/859998--jays-top-prospect-gets-the-call?bn=1

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/3f/cf/d8b891a941fe892f02102af88da0.jpeg

[White Comet]

Seems like that game (Wednesday) would be broadcasted on Sportsnet-One

[trellaine201]

:-0

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/mlb/bluejays/article/859998--jays-top-prospect-gets-the-call?bn=1

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/3f/cf/d8b891a941fe892f02102af88da0.jpeg

I thought he was more of a strike out pitcher but his numbers show otherwise. 162IP and 126Ks, which isn't bad but I thought he was more of a strikeout force. His hits to innings pitches stat is very good though, 162IP and only 126Hits.

Good luck Kyle, I will be watching,

[Maxman]

From a Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/mlb/bluejays/article/860531--blue-jays-greet-kyle-drabek-with-loss-to-lowly-o-s)story today:

"The loss stung as extra innings set backs always do, but Escobar continued to show hitting beyond his years. Gaston has discussed Escobar in terms of a possible lead off hitter in 2011, but for now, the team would like to see the young shortstop pull the ball and develop his obvious power.

“Once he learns to sit on a pitch and pull the ball more, he’s a guy who could hit 20 home runs ... he’s done some big things for us this season,” Gaston said."

So, Escobar takes the right approach and hits a slow grounder up the middle to score two runs and send the game to extra innings, yet Cito's approach is that Escobar can be taught not to hit that pitch, but wait for a different pitch for a chance to hit the ball out of the park and win the game. Yup, that always works!

The Jays finally seem to have an infielder with speed and a good approach at the plate, with a chance to hit above .300 consistently, and all they want to do is turn him into a power hitter. Time for Cito to go before he messes up every player on the team!

[Skip2MyLou]

I find it pretty stupid for them to not broadcast Drabek's debut on sportsnet where everyone can watch it rather than on sportsnet one. Way to limit the exposure of your best pitching prospect. Now most of the people can't watch it.

[Psubs]

I find it pretty stupid for them to not broadcast Drabek's debut on sportsnet where everyone can watch it rather than on sportsnet one. Way to limit the exposure of your best pitching prospect. Now most of the people can't watch it.

You can order Sportsnet One today. :lol:

[White Comet]

Isn't Dwayne Murphy's approach pretty much in line with Cito's approach?

[Maxman]

Isn't Dwayne Murphy's approach pretty much in line with Cito's approach?

Yes, the approach is to go to the plate looking for a specific pitch in a specific location - and only swing at that pitch unless there are two strikes on you. The problem with this approach is when the other teams make adjustments. For example, Wells sits on fastballs out over the plate - so other teams will throw a high first pitch fastball, and he still swings at it. Last year, Lind killed any pitcher that came inside on him with a fastball - so teams have made the adjustment to stay low and away or high and tight with the fastball, and throw a lot of junk in the dirt. Aaron Hill killed the low inside fastball last year - but doesn't seem very many this year. - he's fed breaking balls low and inside and fastballs at the letters. These aren't the pitches they tend to hit for line drives (and line drives are where you develop consistency/average, and power).

Now, if these same hitters would change their approach and try hitting the outside pitch up the middle or the other way for a single, their averages would go up. As they started to have success on these pitches, other teams would have to adjust, and they'd start getting the fastballs again - driving their production numbers up.

Now, you have a player like Escobar who seems to be decent at hitting to get on base. Not every swing looks like his last. Now Cito's ranting about him beign a 20 homer guy. I'd rather see my shortstop (and #2 hitter) hit .300-.320 with 8-10 HRs, but demonstrate bat control and the ability toi move a runner into scoring position, than have him hit .250 with 20 HRs and 100 strike outs. Unless of course, Cito's goal is to turn him into Roberto Alomar just by saying "hit more homers".

Cito's approach may have worked with guys like White, Alomar, Molitor, Carter, Olerud, and Winfield - but at least 3 of those guys are HOFers!

[nano]

It looks pretty tough.

I'm kinda happy the Jays are going to be in NYC for Victoria Day and Labor Day. (ill be at those games) and the PHILLIES are going to be in town Canada day weekend!!

http://mlb.mlb.com/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=tor&m=4&y=2011

[Psubs]

It looks pretty tough.

I'm kinda happy the Jays are going to be in NYC for Victoria Day and Labor Day. (ill be at those games) and the PHILLIES are going to be in town Canada day weekend!!

http://mlb.mlb.com/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=tor&m=4&y=2011

Why do they always get screwed with inter-league play? Atlanta, Philly, Cincy, Houston and St. Louis. That's 4 of the top 6 teams in the NL. At least they get Pittsburg, though I'd rather see Strasburg.

[Skip2MyLou]

it looks pretty tough.

I'm kinda happy the jays are going to be in nyc for victoria day and labor day. (ill be at those games) and the phillies are going to be in town canada day weekend!!

http://mlb.mlb.com/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=tor&m=4&y=2011

yesss roy halladay!!! :)

[White Comet]

<http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=150484

Check out the Must C video

[mdc]

<http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=150484

Check out the Must C video

Was watching that last night ... I love Marcum :lol:

[Psubs]

<http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=150484

Check out the Must C video

Ya, saw that during the game!


It's DRABEK DAY!!! :)

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/sports/photos/2010/09/15/drabek-kyle100915_584.jpg

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/story/2010/09/15/sp-bluejays-orioles-preview.html

Check this out! For today's starters, before pitching for Toronto, Drabek is ranked #11 out of the 30 starters! lol

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/flb/story?page=mlbnotes100915

Ahead of Phil Hughes, James Shields and Gavin Floyd!

Makes me sad to think that if Roy and Carpenter were still in Toronto with Romero, Marcum, Morrow and Cecil, that would be the best staff in baseball. One of them would be a long reliever. lol

Damn this team could've been battling Tampa and NY.

I'll be happy with a staff of:

1. Romero
2. Marcum
3. Morrow
4. Drabek
5. Cecil

No clear ace but a whole lot of #2 and #3 pitchers. :)

[tighty whities]

Ya, saw that during the game!


It's DRABEK DAY!!! :)


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/story/2010/09/15/sp-bluejays-orioles-preview.html

Check this out! For today's starters, before pitching for Toronto, Drabek is ranked #11 out of the 30 starters! lol

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/flb/story?page=mlbnotes100915

Ahead of Phil Hughes, James Shields and Gavin Floyd!

Makes me sad to think that if Roy and Carpenter were still in Toronto with Romero, Marcum, Morrow and Cecil, that would be the best staff in baseball. One of them would be a long reliever. lol

Damn this team could've been battling Tampa and NY.

look at the team/offense that those 3 pitchers are facing and look at the team Drabek is facing. While he's a strong prospect, the rankings say more about Baltimore than anything else.

Love reading the BJ "if" comments :rolleyes:

[Skip2MyLou]

look at the team/offense that those 3 pitchers are facing and look at the team Drabek is facing. While he's a strong prospect, the rankings say more about Baltimore than anything else.

Love reading the BJ "if" comments :rolleyes:

Baltimore has a record of 10 games over .500 since buck showalter took over.
they have beaten the yankees in a recent series.
Baltimore is no joke now, they're a legit team.

[Psubs]

look at the team/offense that those 3 pitchers are facing and look at the team Drabek is facing. While he's a strong prospect, the rankings say more about Baltimore than anything else.

Love reading the BJ "if" comments :rolleyes:

Seems like A.A. is making other teams say "if".

I think they'll let Lewis go. Trade a catching prospect for a leadoff hitter? Not sure about Escobar? Overbay for a reliever or 3B?

1. Escobar
2. Hill
3. Wells
4. Bautista
5. Lind
6. Buck
7. Snider
8. Arencibia
9. 3B

Holy crap, that's a POWERFUL lineup!!!

[tighty whities]

Baltimore has a record of 10 games over .500 since buck showalter took over.
they have beaten the yankees in a recent series.
Baltimore is no joke now, they're a legit team.

look at the 3 pitchers I was talking about and the teams they are facing, who do you think will rack up more fantasy points?
see why theoretically they should be ranked lower tonight than Drabek? which was the genesis of my OP.

I'm just saying Baltimore isn't even the same threat to a pitcher's fantasy stats as the Yankees, Tampa Bay or Minnesota.

[Psubs]

look at the 3 pitchers I was talking about and the teams they are facing, who do you think will rack up more fantasy points?
see why theoretically they should be ranked lower tonight than Drabek? which was the genesis of my OP.

I'm just saying Baltimore isn't even the same threat to a pitcher's fantasy stats as the Yankees, TB or Minnesota.

Oh ya, I linked to to Fantasy Baseball page. :facepalm:

[Psubs]

For those that don't get Sportsnet1, you can see Drabek pitch on channel 001 in standard def.

[trellaine201]

Bombista ties Bells HR record-congrats!

[dragon_drift]

Bombista ties Bells HR record-congrats!

awesome! still 17 games more to go and 3 more to hit 50 =D

[Jimboski]

awesome! still 17 games more to go and 3 more to hit 50 =D

Yup, I'm sure he'll get It. (Sorry If I jinxed It, Haha!).

[trellaine201]

Booooooo Snider. You suck. I have lost all patience with this guy. Huge under achiever. All the tools but can't put it together.

[canabiz]

I have not watched a Jays game for the past week but I just took a quick glance at the scores and the Jays has been losing to the lowly Orioles.

How low can they go? Are the players just going through the motion and can't wait for the end of the season to come soon enough? Cito doesn't give a damn now does he? I wonder if the new manager can motivate this bunch of so-called professionals?

[Psubs]

I have not watched a Jays game for the past week but I just took a quick glance at the scores and the Jays has been losing to the lowly Orioles.

How low can they go? Are the players just going through the motion and can't wait for the end of the season to come soon enough? Cito doesn't give a damn now does he? I wonder if the new manager can motivate this bunch of so-called professionals?

The Orioles are on fire and I believe they were a half inning away from sweeping the Yankees. :facepalm:

Well Drabek kept getting into trouble but got out of some of them. Only gave up 3 runs but got no run support, so he gets the L. A decent debut showing a lot of potential. I liked how he was able to hit the corners and his curve is great.

[White Comet]

Blue Jays trying to go home asap. They're like swinging at the first pitch, not working counts.

[vchan81]

I gotta say... Drabek looked pretty good last night. I can definitely see the potential there.

[rdtx2002]

I have not watched a Jays game for the past week but I just took a quick glance at the scores and the Jays has been losing to the lowly Orioles.

How low can they go? Are the players just going through the motion and can't wait for the end of the season to come soon enough? Cito doesn't give a damn now does he? I wonder if the new manager can motivate this bunch of so-called professionals?

why don't you look at the Orioles record after the coaching change.. and you won't think they are the lowly Orioles.

Besides.. the Jays were bound to lose to the O's sometime.. they were 12-0 going into the series against them

[rviewmirror]

Was excited to see Drabek last night. He had some nerves going you could see that. He managed to pitch out of jams but his defense saved him huge.

Staff next year:

Romero
Marcum
Morrow
Drabek
Cecil.

That can be nasty if they're all going well at the same time. Need to beef up the bullpen and we have the makings of one of the best pitching staffs in baseball.

[Psubs]

Was excited to see Drabek last night. He had some nerves going you could see that. He managed to pitch out of jams but his defense saved him huge.

Staff next year:

Romero
Marcum
Morrow
Drabek
Cecil.

That can be nasty if they're all going well at the same time. Need to beef up the bullpen and we have the makings of one of the best pitching staffs in baseball.

A.A. locking up Romero to a modest contract is amazing. It sets the bar for locking up the others for similar contracts. :)

In the winter, no need to worry about the starters. Maybe a closer and other help. Setup men being righty Gregg and lefty Purcey would be sweet.

[dragon_drift]

Was excited to see Drabek last night. He had some nerves going you could see that. He managed to pitch out of jams but his defense saved him huge.

Staff next year:

Romero
Marcum
Morrow
Drabek
Cecil.

That can be nasty if they're all going well at the same time. Need to beef up the bullpen and we have the makings of one of the best pitching staffs in baseball.

pretty young and exciting group of pitchers, but too bad our offense sucks. Man, our batting average is soo low even though we lead the MLB in HRs. The batters need to get their sh** together especially Lind and Hill next season.

[Psubs]

pretty young and exciting group of pitchers, but too bad our offense sucks. Man, our batting average is soo low even though we lead the MLB in HRs. The batters need to get their sh** together especially Lind and Hill next season.

We just needed them to hit .250 and the playoffs would be within reach. Kind of like the Angels last year all hitting over .300 (did the finish all hitting over .280?). :razz:

[canabiz]

why don't you look at the Orioles record after the coaching change.. and you won't think they are the lowly Orioles.

Besides.. the Jays were bound to lose to the O's sometime.. they were 12-0 going into the series against them

That's precisely the point. The Orioles were crappy all season long but they still show some hearts at the end of the season, probably fighting for jobs and pride at the same time.

My question is: Do you guys see the same efforts from the Jays? If not what is it? the coaching? the players themselves? the losing culture? Maybe a little bit of everything. If the Orioles can scrap and fight to win a few series to finish the season on a positive note, why can't the Jays?

I know at one point they were 10 games above .500 and there were talks they maybe able to finish this season with the highest # of wins in the last decade i.e. surpassing 86 wins. They will have to win the remaining 16 games to make this happen. My bet is it won't.

[Psubs]

That's precisely the point. The Orioles were crappy all season long but they still show some hearts at the end of the season, probably fighting for jobs and pride at the same time.

My question is: Do you guys see the same efforts from the Jays? If not what is it? the coaching? the players themselves? the losing culture? Maybe a little bit of everything. If the Orioles can scrap and fight to win a few series to finish the season on a positive note, why can't the Jays?

I know at one point they were 10 games above .500 and there were talks they maybe able to finish this season with the highest # of wins in the last decade i.e. surpassing 86 wins. They will have to win the remaining 16 games to make this happen. My bet is it won't.

There is a let down knowing that you were close earlier in the season but are now out of the wild card race. The Orioles are playing for jobs and pride.

Just finish above .500 and call it a winning season and let A.A. work some more magic. NEXT!!!

[trellaine201]

That's precisely the point. The Orioles were crappy all season long but they still show some hearts at the end of the season, probably fighting for jobs and pride at the same time.

My question is: Do you guys see the same efforts from the Jays? If not what is it? the coaching? the players themselves? the losing culture? Maybe a little bit of everything. If the Orioles can scrap and fight to win a few series to finish the season on a positive note, why can't the Jays?

I know at one point they were 10 games above .500 and there were talks they maybe able to finish this season with the highest # of wins in the last decade i.e. surpassing 86 wins. They will have to win the remaining 16 games to make this happen. My bet is it won't.

I see coaching and managers trying many different things since the season was lost. Plain in simple. 6 man rotation. Players playing positions they haven't played for awhile. etc etc. They aren't managing to win. They don't put their best lineup out every night. Snider is useless.

[Baseball_Boy]

So long to the great managers of the game. Joe Torre, Cito Gaston, Bobby Cox, and Lou Piniella are retiring at season's end.

[trellaine201]

Nice Wells! Hits to yet another double play with 1 out and 2 runners on. Mr Clutch! Rally killer!

[Skip2MyLou]

Overbay and Lind are killing Lackey tonight.
Don't know who's pickup was worse lol, Boston with Lackey or Yankees with Vazquez

[Skip2MyLou]

WOAH LOOKOUT!
#48 for Jose Bautista!

[dragon_drift]

WOAH LOOKOUT!
#48 for Jose Bautista!

awesome! woot!

[litebrite]

Jays announce new partnership with the Vancouver Canadians! :)

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100917&content_id=14759110&vkey=pr_t435&fext=.jsp&sid=t435

I know it's only short season Single A but I went to a bunch of games this past season and ithey were a lot of fun.

Since the C's were afiliated w/ the Oakland Atheletics, will their entire roster be different next season due to this new partnership?

[tighty whities]

Jays announce new partnership with the Vancouver Canadians! :)

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100917&content_id=14759110&vkey=pr_t435&fext=.jsp&sid=t435

I know it's only short season Single A but I went to a bunch of games this past season and ithey were a lot of fun.

Since the C's were afiliated w/ the Oakland Atheletics, will their entire roster be different next season due to this new partnership?

yes, the C's roster will no longer be comprised of A's minor leaguers. Depending on assignment, you might get chance to see some of their top draft picks/prospects (especially if they are out of prep).

[djstiles]

Great job to Jose on # 48! Should be the first Jay to 50 home runs in a season.

[trellaine201]

I hope your right. It would be very cool!

[Jimboski]

WOAH LOOKOUT!
#48 for Jose Bautista!

w00t w00t, 2 More to go!

[White Comet]

Jays almost blew an 8-2 lead winning 11-9. Pretty close. Seems like the Red Sox hitters know about the approach of BJ pitchers

[nano]

Jays almost blew an 8-2 lead winning 11-9. Pretty close. Seems like the Red Sox hitters know about the approach of BJ pitchers

they have played the Jays 16 times in the last 6 months

[trellaine201]

No49 of Josh Beckett. Looks like 50 before seasons end for sure.

[dragon_drift]

just 1 more to reach 50!

go jose!

[nano]

i wouldn't be stunned if he hits more then 55. its kinda sad the dome is going to be closed for most of the last few games. the winds off the lake really help with the hr's

[Merc with a Mouth]

1. Rockies are making their annual crazy ***** run near then end of the season, earlier this month they were catching up because of the Padres poor play but now they are doing it by being on a hot streak.

2. Jose Bautista will be in there for MVP talk with Hamilton being out with injury but I still think Hamilton or Cabrera will win it.

3. NL MVP race is very close but I still think Votto deserves it. I think Tulowitzki will hurt Gonzales chances.

[Skip2MyLou]

Jose Bautista definitely deserves major consideration for MVP.
He will most likely be leading in two of the three triple crown categories (homeruns, rbis). And if you factor in the defensive part of the game, Jose blows the other two out of the water in terms of defense.
If Cabrera gets this much consideration for a team that won't make the playoffs, Jose deserves just as much.
Hamilton seems to be the favourite because texas is making the playoffs, but then you can also argue that Cano and Longoria can win because they have they are the best players on two the best teams in the league.

[Psubs]

They may just give him the most improved player award. He can win the MVP next season.

[grappos13]

^ cano better not get MVP... i would hate that... dont think its worthy... Hamilton deserves it more...gonna end with .360 avg, 35 HR and 100+ RBI.. amazing season... not to mention his OPS is crazy... cano basically has no stats that are better and he played 16 more games.. only better stat is that NYY has 7 more wins than texas...

bautista should get consideration since he could have 2 of the 3 triple crown categories but if i were to rank who id want to get MVP, its probably Hamilton and then if i were to go for a person thats not on a playoff team, id pick Cabrera over Bautista.. sure, he has 15 less HR, but .065 higher average is a huge deal...

but jays had a good year... 4 guys r gonna get in the 25+ HR range (well not if Hill is done for season) and 6 guys in the 20+ HR, with agone giving us 17 in half a season too.... too bad they wont get the all time record for HR in a season...another thing thats funny is that Bautista is close enuff that he can get triple crown on the jays lol.. thats how bad our player are at average

on another note, another amazing year for pujols... too bad he might end up with his worst ever season as far as batting average is... but this guy is just soo damn consistent! amazing career he has had so far and i think he could be one of the best players of all time...look at his stats.. over his first 10 seasons in the MLB, Pujols has averaged 41 HR a year, 123 RBI a year and a .331 average....also 43 doubles a year and a 1.050 OPS... crazy yo!

[djstiles]

I agree, I think Jose should be in contention for MVP in American League but I have a feeling Hamilton will take it. Texas is having an awesome year. I think it
would be awesome if Jose got it though!

In the National league I think Votto has it, and it helps the Reds are having their best season of the decade. But you can't ignore the success of Pujols...he is
awesome year in and year out!

Shout out to Ryan Howard for becoming the first player in Philles history with 5 straight seasons of 30+HR's and 100+ RBI's!!!!

[djstiles]

Somebody call the Padres and tell them to wake up. I don't want to see Colorado in the playoffs, haha. I would like to see SD or San Fran. Rockies and Tulo
have been on fire this month but I like the Padres and Giants much more then I like Colorado.

[trellaine201]

Somebody call the Padres and tell them to wake up. I don't want to see Colorado in the playoffs, haha. I would like to see SD or San Fran. Rockies and Tulo
have been on fire this month but I like the Padres and Giants much more then I like Colorado.

I am for Sandiego as well. I am hoping they will be playing while I am in SD mid October :)

[Skip2MyLou]

Tulowitzki is beastin'.
14 homeruns in the last 15 games. :-0

[Beeg]

Jose Bautista! Toronto has at least one superstar in town.

[djstiles]

I am for Sandiego as well. I am hoping they will be playing while I am in SD mid October :)

That would be awesome. I went to San Diego a few years ago in the baseball offseason and took a tour of Petco park. Awesome ball park.

I just hope they can turn things around and take back the division. They beat the cards last night to take over first but with Giants and Rockies are too close
for comfort. I wouldn't mind if the Giants took 1st place but as I mentioned I'm not a big Rockies fan.

[bobcat99]

Now what's with Escobar jogging to first to make the final out. When is he going to stop doing that. !!!

[trellaine201]

Do the Jays control Jose Bautista next year? What is his salary status etc?

[vchan81]

Do the Jays control Jose Bautista next year? What is his salary status etc?

I believe Bautista is a free agent at end of this year. I remember during the trade deadline, there was a huge debate on whether to keep Bautista or at least trade him for something.

[Spray]

He's arb eligible, yes we control his status, but must pay his salary determined by a tribunal if the sides can't agree. Probably in the 7-9 million range.


I believe Bautista is a free agent at end of this year. I remember during the trade deadline, there was a huge debate on whether to keep Bautista or at least trade him for something.

[trellaine201]

He's arb eligible, yes we control his status, but must pay his salary determined by a tribunal if the sides can't agree. Probably in the 7-9 million range.

So arbitration is guaranteed salary for ONE year correct? Chances are we will keep him then one way or another. Either longer term contract or at least one more year?

[Psubs]

He's arb eligible, yes we control his status, but must pay his salary determined by a tribunal if the sides can't agree. Probably in the 7-9 million range.

That would be great. Isn't Vernon making like $20 million? :facepalm:

[Spray]

Yes one year, unless we either trade him or the two sides agree to a longer term contract, which I would be amicable to if he isn't asking too much.
If we keep him for one year, he hits out of his shoes again, he'll become a type A free agent, giving us supplemental draft picks AFAIK.


I still think Bautista = Brady Anderson. I'd love him to prove me wrong though.


So arbitration is guaranteed salary for ONE year correct? Chances are we will keep him then one way or another. Either longer term contract or at least one more year?

[trellaine201]

That would be great. Isn't Vernon making like $20 million? :facepalm:

Yikes, lets try not to bring that up along with the Leafs and no 1st round picks for a few years. :facepalm: almost as bad.

[tighty whities]

He's arb eligible, yes we control his status, but must pay his salary determined by a tribunal if the sides can't agree. Probably in the 7-9 million range.

that's what the news has been saying...

[NDman]

So arbitration is guaranteed salary for ONE year correct? Chances are we will keep him then one way or another. Either longer term contract or at least one more year?

Baseball arbitration is for 1-year contract. I'm pretty sure Bautista will be in his last year of arbitration-eligibility after this 2010 season -- meaning he'll be an FA after 2011 season unless the Jays lock him up long term.

There's no reason for the Jays not to offer him arbitration since that they aren't especially looking to a major trim on the payroll (Wells contract does strain a lot but still). I highly doubt Bautista would not accept the arbitration and leaves as an FA (Jays will then get 2 draft picks from the team that signs him. JB will for sure be a Type A guy)

[Spray]

Nope, more :P
23, 21, 21, 21, are his next four years.




That would be great. Isn't Vernon making like $20 million? :facepalm:

[Psubs]

Nope, more :P
23, 21, 21, 21, are his next four years.

:facepalm: , :facepalm: , :facepalm: , :facepalm:

[trellaine201]

Nope, more :P
23, 21, 21, 21, are his next four years.

*faints* another four years of mediocrity

anyways back to happier times-Bautista, he can opt out of arbitration though? And leave in the winter.

[tighty whities]

Baseball arbitration is for 1-year contract. I'm pretty sure Bautista will be in his last year of arbitration-eligibility after this 2010 season -- meaning he'll be an FA after 2011 season unless the Jays lock him up long term.

There's no reason for the Jays not to offer him arbitration since that they aren't especially looking to a major trim on the payroll (Wells contract does strain a lot but still). I highly doubt Bautista would not accept the arbitration and leaves as an FA (Jays will then get 2 draft picks from the team that signs him. JB will for sure be a Type A guy)

Yeah, he is under control for one more year. It was discussed earlier in this thread.

[tighty whities]

*faints* another four years of mediocrity

anyways back to happier times-Bautista, he can opt out of arbitration though? And leave in the winter.

he can't leave as a FA, unless the Jays decide not to tender him a contract

[Spray]

Yeah he's ours for another year. Unless we trade him or think the tribunal would award him more than what they think he's worth.


he can't leave as a FA, unless the Jays decide not to tender him a contract

[trellaine201]

Whose his agent? It's not Borass is it? This clown thinks former Jay , Jason Werth is worth a contract over $100million. Like always his shoots his mouth off in the media. What a *****.

[Jimboski]

:facepalm: , :facepalm: , :facepalm: , :facepalm:

You forgot to :facepalm: all the other years he's been here.

[trellaine201]

You forgot to :facepalm: all the other years he's been here.

Maybe we can trade him for another overpriced/underachiever player (Zambrano), how is our field looking?

[Spray]

I like Zambrano, I feel they treat him poorly over there.

Go look at his numbers in the rotation, not relief this year. They're astoundingly good.


Maybe we can trade him for another overpriced/underachiever player (Zambrano), how is our field looking?

[tighty whities]

Whose his agent? It's not Borass is it? This clown thinks former Jay , Jason Werth is worth a contract over $100million. Like always his shoots his mouth off in the media. What a *****.

We were just talking about this at work.. Bautista's agent is Stringfellow (sp?)

Boras' job is to get what his client wants, which is usually to maximize the value of a player's contract.
I'm sure you'd want him to represent you to maximize your earnings.

[Skip2MyLou]

Ichiro is in town :) I finally get to watch my favourite player in person!

[vchan81]

King Felix !!!

[mdc]

I have tickets to the "Cito Appreciation" game ... I love going to games, but there is no way I will participate in "appreciating" what Cito has done these last couple of years ... He has been decent for some players (ie Buck, Overbay, Bautista), but he is ruining Snider and denying Arencibia the chance to get some games in (he stated in an interview that Buck will play daily until he hits 20 HRs ... what a joke)

I can't wait to see him go ... maybe I will cheer at the game afterall ... I'll cheer for the fact that this useless manager (and I fail to see what he actually does during a game) is gone for good ...

[inntents]

I have tickets to the "Cito Appreciation" game ... I love going to games, but there is no way I will participate in "appreciating" what Cito has done these last couple of years ... He has been decent for some players (ie Buck, Overbay, Bautista), but he is ruining Snider and denying Arencibia the chance to get some games in (he stated in an interview that Buck will play daily until he hits 20 HRs ... what a joke)

I can't wait to see him go ... maybe I will cheer at the game afterall ... I'll cheer for the fact that this useless manager (and I fail to see what he actually does during a game) is gone for good ...

C'mon, tell us how you REALLY feel...........:lol:

[Psubs]

Ichiro is in town :) I finally get to watch my favourite player in person!

... and he didn't disappoint going 4 for 4. :razz:


Haladay wins #20 to become the first Philly in 28 years to do so.

[Skip2MyLou]

... and he didn't disappoint going 4 for 4. :razz:


Haladay wins #20 to become the first Philly in 28 years to do so.

Dude has a MAGIC WAND.
the guys on 590 were talking about his wand every time he was at bat :lol:

[cheapmeister]

Dam 1st pitch Tallet throws is hit for a home run. Dam.

[Jimboski]

Dam 1st pitch Tallet throws is hit for a home run. Dam.

Yep..

Jose Bautista for 50 tonight!?

[La Fleur]

27th player in MLB history with 50 or more dingers: Jose Baubeasta!!!

Off of one of the toughest pitchers, King Felix, no less.

[pavelbure10]

Bautista is a Beast

[thelefteyeguy]

Congrads Jose!

now sign the contract!

[wszeto28]

Congrats to Jose!

Also, http://thestar.blogs.com/baseball/

According to Richard Griffin, next year pocket schedules has Bautista on the cover, which means long term contract signing?!

[thelefteyeguy]

i'd like to thank Rogers in advance for resigning Jose

perhaps I will finally catch a few games next season after a 3 year hiatus...

[wszeto28]

Ichiro hit his 200th hit this season which makes it 10 seasons in a row with 200 hits. That feat itself is pretty crazy. Pretty good to see fans at the skydome giving him a standing ovation too.

[La Fleur]

Ichiro hit his 200th hit this season which makes it 10 seasons in a row with 200 hits. That feat itself is pretty crazy. Pretty good to see fans at the skydome giving him a standing ovation too.

Yea, utterly insane. Would have broken Rose's mark of most hits in a career if he started in MLB when he was younger.

2 milestones in the game (Ichiro, Bautista) all under the auspice of first base ump Jim Joyce. Good thing he had no power to botch any history in this game:lol:

[djstiles]

Luckily I PVR'd the game so I can watch Ichiro and Jose's milestones! Watching it on TSN or the score highlights won't be the same!

[Skip2MyLou]

WOooooooooo, i'm so happy i got to witness both milestones in person.
Amazing achievement for Ichiro, just think what he could've done if he had played his whole career in the MLB.

[inntents]

Don't know why I'm bothered by this, but why were there no teammates out at home plate to greet Jose when he got there? Ya, they celebrated somewhat in the dugout, but damn, this is a big, big deal!
Even the p.a. announcer, right away announces VW as the next hitter. No fireworks, no nothing! I know it was early in the game, but even King Felix recognized the specialness of the occasion by backing off the rubber until Jose took a curtain call.:confused:

[Shimso]

Don't know why I'm bothered by this, but were there no teammates out at home plate to greet Jose when he got there? Ya, they celebrated somewhat in the dugout, but damn, this is a big, big deal!
Even the p.a. announcer, right away announces VW as the next hitter. No fireworks, no nothing! I know it was early in the game, but even King Felix recognized the specialness of the occasion by backing off the rubber until Jose took a curtain call.:confused:

they were probably saving the big celebration for when he reaches 60 :D

[vchan81]

Maybe the truth is that 50 home runs doesn't mean as much anymore. With the huge steroid black cloud hanging over baseball, the numbers just don't mean as much.

[trellaine201]

Maybe the truth is that 50 home runs doesn't mean as much anymore. With the huge steroid black cloud hanging over baseball, the numbers just don't mean as much.

I agree. I am sure there are many who think "you know what" but aren't saying it publicly.

[inntents]

Maybe the truth is that 50 home runs doesn't mean as much anymore. With the huge steroid black cloud hanging over baseball, the numbers just don't mean as much.


I agree. I am sure there are many who think "you know what" but aren't saying it publicly.

Even on his own team, though? That's pretty cold.
And 50 hasn't been done in a couple of years. I would think it should mean something.

Maybe I've got rose-coloured glasses, but I don't believe Jose's juicing at all, in any way. He's not big, relatively speaking. Not ripped, or big muscled, or bigBond-headed. He doesn't hit checked-swing opposite field homers like the juicers did. He just swings the crap out of a bat and has succeeded in connecting 50 times this year. But that's just me....... I BELIEVE!!!!:)

[trellaine201]

Even on his own team, though? That's pretty cold.
And 50 hasn't been done in a couple of years. I would think it should mean something.

Maybe I've got rose-coloured glasses, but I don't believe Jose's juicing at all, in any way. He's not big, relatively speaking. Not ripped, or big muscled, or bigBond-headed. He doesn't hit checked-swing opposite field homers like the juicers did. He just swings the crap out of a bat and has succeeded in connecting 50 times this year. But that's just me....... I BELIEVE!!!!:)

Nono I don't this his teammates think this at all. I am talking more the media.

[trellaine201]

Soon as post I find this:

http://baseball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/21801/20100924/bautista_defends_legitimacy_of_50_homers/

[Maxman]

Just reading Dave Perkins literary masterpiece on why CITO belongs in the Hall of Fame. I checked the date and its not April 1st, nor was it in a fiction section, so I can only assume massive alcohol or drug use by the author...

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/866139--perkins-gaston-s-career-worthy-of-cooperstown

His only argument seems to be "he won two World Series" and others in the HoF only won one.

If it stops him from ever managing the Jays again, hell, put him in there!

[trellaine201]

Bam!

[inntents]

Wow.
Just, wow.
#51
:)

[Jimboski]

Boom goes the dynamite for Jose Bautista. #51!

[dragon_drift]

awesomeness. i think there's 10 games left? just 9 more for 60!

edit: #52!!!

[Jyeatbvg69]

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w116/frankbink5/bautista0001gifban.gif

[dragon_drift]

^ man, that gave me goosebumps.

[inntents]

Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!:lol::lol::lol:

[dragon_drift]

haha jays win despite only have 5 hits to the oriole's 16

[cheapmeister]

Bam Bam! Bautista is on a tear! :razz:
Gregg at the end! OMG! Carlson with the close!

[Jimboski]

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w116/frankbink5/bautista0001gifban.gif

Was he trying to grab a fly? Hehe.

[La Fleur]

Just reading Dave Perkins literary masterpiece on why CITO belongs in the Hall of Fame. I checked the date and its not April 1st, nor was it in a fiction section, so I can only assume massive alcohol or drug use by the author...

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/866139--perkins-gaston-s-career-worthy-of-cooperstown

His only argument seems to be "he won two World Series" and others in the HoF only won one.

If it stops him from ever managing the Jays again, hell, put him in there!

Hahah . . . this should be copied and pasted on DrunkJaysFans. Yea, a lot of Cito-love out there, mainly from the uneducated. Crazy Cito will probably find a way to get himself knighted or the Order of Canada or something.

[La Fleur]

It's all the beard. . . as soon as it begins to furlough, the longballs just break out. 60 all the way, had he played a full season of at bats (he's short about 30-ish), I could see people freaking out saying he's gonna hit over 70. That would be nuts. The Dome would still be a ghost town though.

[Skip2MyLou]

It's all the beard. . . as soon as it begins to furlough, the longballs just break out. 60 all the way, had he played a full season of at bats (he's short about 30-ish), I could see people freaking out saying he's gonna hit over 70. That would be nuts. The Dome would still be a ghost town though.

yeah its bs, the leafs are already selling out their games and its just PRESEASON.
meanwhile the jays who ALWAYS have a better winning percentage the the Leafs, can barely get 12k fans each night.

[Shimso]

yeah its bs, the leafs are already selling out their games and its just PRESEASON.
meanwhile the jays who ALWAYS have a better winning percentage the the Leafs, can barely get 12k fans each night.

I'll never understand how the Argos, Leafs, and TFC (a team that's never made the playoffs and are constantly increasing prices) can draw huge crowds, yet a team that has a winning percentage despite being in the toughest division in pro sports with the toughest strength of schedule of any baseball team (.517, next closest is baltimore at .512) can barely get anyone to watch...

[La Fleur]

I'll never understand how the Argos, Leafs, and TFC (a team that's never made the playoffs and are constantly increasing prices) can draw huge crowds, yet a team that has a winning percentage despite being in the toughest division in pro sports with the toughest strength of schedule of any baseball team (.517, next closest is baltimore at .512) can barely get anyone to watch...

Yea, it's ridiculous. I hope whoever wins Gillette Drafted season 2 is a die-hard Jays fan. The more Jays love on prime-time sports network, the better. Too many puck-heads.

[nano]

With a hand full of games left in the season, I say this year is a success. The teams ace left town (we really didn't miss him), a bench player with a career batting average of under .250 became a power hitter with great defense. The starting rotation is young but very solid its only missing one piece (and dont say Drabek cus he needs another season in the minors).

I listen to the MLB network on xm everyday they predicted that the Jays would lose 100 games this season before the season started I laughed when I hear that. The Jays not the best team in the AL east but i can see them winning the wild card within the next 5 yrs.


I'll never understand how the Argos, Leafs, and TFC (a team that's never made the playoffs and are constantly increasing prices) can draw huge crowds, yet a team that has a winning percentage despite being in the toughest division in pro sports with the toughest strength of schedule of any baseball team (.517, next closest is baltimore at .512) can barely get anyone to watch...

Toronto is too much of a Hockey town and I really hate it. I was at the game that Morrow almost thew a new hitter. The people sitting behind me were talking Hockey and how their is nothing else to do until the Leafs start playing again. I'm a die hard jays fan and I try to watch at least one game live every home stand if not more. I feel that many people don't even go to Jays games due to the costs but you can bring in you food and drinks and you can get 100's seats for $20 from a scalper.

The best thing about the Jays is the new GM he has not made a bad move (yet).

[Psubs]

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w116/frankbink5/bautista0001gifban.gif

Woooooooooooo! :)


The best thing about the Jays is the new GM he has not made a bad move (yet).

A.A. is so good. :razz:

[Maxman]

haha jays win despite only have 5 hits to the oriole's 16

Just looking at the boxscore (thanks SN1), and that jumped right out at me. Cecil gives up 11 hits in 6+ innings and only 2 ER! Sounds like he was in constant trouble. Jays get 5 hits and 3 HRs, and only 3 players had hits (Escobar -2, Bautista -2, Wells -1).

Gregg gives up 2H, 1BB, and 1ER, leaving 2 runners on base in .2 innings, yet gets credit with a HOLD! Just gotta love the irrelevance of some baseball stats.

But lets put Cito into the HoF for managing a solo HR, a walk and a dinger, a single and a dinger, and a bases loaded walk. He managed to keep the Orioles to just 16 hits and using just 5 pitchers!

[dragon_drift]

Just looking at the boxscore (thanks SN1), and that jumped right out at me. Cecil gives up 11 hits in 6+ innings and only 2 ER! Sounds like he was in constant trouble. Jays get 5 hits and 3 HRs, and only 3 players had hits (Escobar -2, Bautista -2, Wells -1).

Gregg gives up 2H, 1BB, and 1ER, leaving 2 runners on base in .2 innings, yet gets credit with a HOLD! Just gotta love the irrelevance of some baseball stats.

But lets put Cito into the HoF for managing a solo HR, a walk and a dinger, a single and a dinger, and a bases loaded walk. He managed to keep the Orioles to just 16 hits and using just 5 pitchers!

I shiver every time Gregg closes. Don't tell me he's closing full time next year too. ~sigh

[La Fleur]

I think we should keep Gregg, but use him in a set-up role, rather than closer. His inconsistency is not good for someone expected to pitch one to maybe 2 innings to shut out a game. He's got strike out material, but too many walks.

Gregg: 56 IP, 21 ER, 35 saves, 58 K, 28 BB, 3.30 ERA

Compared to others in a similar role:

Rivera: 57, 10, 32, 44, 11, 1.50 ERA
Axford: 54, 13, 22, 69, 26, 2.15 ERA
K-Rod: 57, 14, 25 67 21, 2.2 ERA

Gregg's ERA isn't terrible by any means, but he's not a lock-down closer either. Either needs more K's or less walks and earned runs. I think his saves are over-inflated due to the terrible relief set-up as well. A lot of his saves came in games where they should have easily won, but muppets like Tallet, Carlson, etc. screwed up and Gregg was fortunate enough to inherit the save. Meanwhile, in games where the set up has been great he comes in and can't seem to find the strike zone.

I think in limited doses, Gregg can be exceptional. Blow by 2 guys with some heat. But, in a long run scenario I dont think he has the tenacity to hang with the big boys and that's pretty crucial for a playoff team. I'd use Down/Gregg as the lefty/righty specialists prior to the closer. Not sure who the closer should be though.

[Maxman]

Romero = WOW! Please move the rest of the game to SN1!

[trellaine201]

As much as I bash Wells on a continual basis, great catch in the 9th.

[La Fleur]

It's gonna be so tight . . . slightly over 2 a game. It'll boil down to a few things. Playing at home will be a huge benefit, with home advantage, good home splits for some of their hitters, and generally hitter friendly diamond. The guys who needed to get hot to help the record are doing it: Hill, Lind, and Wells. Bautista is almost a shoe-in to reach 50 homers, so you can expect another 7 from him. Basically the rest of their hitters will make the difference. McDonald going yard a few times helps. Buck still playing at his pre-All Star level helps. Really wish Snider played more as no doubt he'd have hit 20 or more homers this year. Arencibia has the power, but like Snider, his inconsistent playing time isn't helping. No Morrow hopefully means less of Molina, as he doesn't contribute much in the HR department. A toss-up between Wise and Lewis, but both have some pop. Overbay and Encarnacion are the X-factors . . . Overbay could hit 20, as he was playing well. Encarnacion has the power to hit 20, but once again not living up to expectations because of slumping streaks and health.

I really, really hope they do it . . . would put an exclamation mark on the season and be a nice little last hurrah for Cito.

Some predictions if they do it:

Bautista - 50 (43) +7
Wells - 32 (27) +5
Hill - 29 (23) +6
Lind - 24 (20) +4
Overbay - 21 (17) +4
Buck - 21 (17) +4
Encarnacion - 14 (13) +1 . . . . not sure if he'll be back before end of season, but he usually has a mini tear whenever he returns so this could be more
Snider - 14 (9) +5
Lewis - 10 (8) +2
Escobar - 8 (4) +4
McDonald - 7 (6) +1
Wise - 4 (3) +1
Arencibia 4 (2) +2

. . . . ? + 4 (McCoy, Jacobs, Molina, ballboy???)

Hopefully Bautista hits 10, since some of these guys might not get playing time (Arencibia) or will regress (McDonald). Get Jacobs in there and he could hit 5 this month!

Just quoting for posterity . . .see where the boys are at.

Let's see .. . . Bautista (52) overachieved, not surprised there. Dude's been making up for every other player this year. Wells (30) is on pace to hit 32. Hill (25) reverted to crap again, unsurprisingly. Needs to hit one every other day at this point. Lind (20) on pace right now with 22. Overbay (19) could do it, but has seen significantly less playing time lately (rightfully so). Cito is determined to have Buck (18) hit 20, but unless he has another tri-homer day, his lack of playing time makes this difficult. Encarnacion (15) is one up, mostly due to more playing time, since Fred Lewis went down with injury Bautista back in the field. Sure enough he hit one right after getting off DL, but otherwise, he's very inconsistent. Has the power to knock a couple more out. I really felt Snider (10) was gonna break out in September, since he'd get consistent playing time, but he continues to befuddle me with his inability to hit any inside breaking pitches or why he swings at garbage clearly out of the strike zone. Underwhelmed. Lewis (10) never played due to injury so no dice there. Escobar (4) has been great all-round, but never picked up his power. A solid September nonetheless. And the wildcards did nothing . . . no more J-Mac bombs, never saw Jacobs, only the occaisional Molina/Arencibia sighting, etc., etc. A good run, but looks they are gonna fall short of the league record. Hopefully can still beat the team record though.

[La Fleur]

Jays add 4 more bombs today, capped by a Loverbay walk off in extras. Surely, they'll break their own HR record, but would need an absolute power surge to break the all-time record.

[Psubs]

As much as I bash Wells on a continual basis, great catch in the 9th.

Bautista's catch was awesome! He wasn't even in the picture until late with the great camera work.

In 2 years, can we throw some bills at Pujols?

[nano]

Bautista's catch was awesome! He wasn't even in the picture until late with the great camera work.

In 2 years, can we throw some bills at Pujols?

i dont think we need him. the jays need to figure out how the beat the rays sox and yankees.

[Skip2MyLou]

Picked up some nice bobbleheads at the Jays' "garage sale" today.
$7 for 4 bobbleheads (what a deal!)
although they players were BJ Ryan (woot BJ!), Orlando Hudson (O-DOG! fan fav), Corey Koskie (canadian!), and Alex Rios (No boo's please)

Free "Heart & Hustle" T-Shirt day tomorrow :D

[bobcat99]

Hopefully Snider can learn from the mistakes that he makes every other game, either on the basepaths or out in the field. Hopefully he won't turn into another Rios.

[vchan81]

just saw replay of Bautista's catch... awesome play !

[Skip2MyLou]

Surprised no one got back at Baltimore's hitters for hitting Bautista twice!
2nd time was on purpose for sure, the first pitch missed him, so Simon made sure the 2nd pitch got him.

They should've brought in tallet to throw at Jones or Markakis, make him useful :lol:

[inntents]

Hopefully Snider can learn from the mistakes that he makes every other game, either on the basepaths or out in the field. Hopefully he won't turn into another Rios.

LOL, Rios is exactly who I thought of when Snyder pulled that bonehead play.
Cripes. Little Leaguers know enough to look at a base coach for help rather than gaze around the field looking for the damned ball......>:(

[newhope]

Interview with our Big 4:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/video/36651949001/40415880001/Jays-rotation-exclusive-Pt1

Marcum seems like a great teammate.

[vchan81]

I agree... we have to protect Bautista ... the Jays should have thrown at someone.

[La Fleur]

God Bless your kindness Burnett in helping the Jays try to beat their all-time team homer record:twisted:
Love how AJ gets lit up almost every time he plays in TO. Jays really givin it to the Spankees this year.

[dragon_drift]

God Bless your kindness Burnett in helping the Jays try to beat their all-time team homer record:twisted:
Love how AJ gets lit up almost every time he plays in TO. Jays really givin it to the Spankees this year.

haha burnett 2.1 IP, 7 ER...PWNED HARD

[Beeg]

haha burnett 2.1 IP, 7 ER...PWNED HARD

Besides a couple of good hitters, Yankees looked weak!

Jeter looks to be done.

And I've watched A-Rod in person many times and rarely seen him look so washed up.

[Jimboski]

haha burnett 2.1 IP, 7 ER...PWNED HARD

He obviously misses us and let us get some runs against him!

[vchan81]

Wow... Burnett looked really bad...

[Skip2MyLou]

Alfredo Simon, the guy who plunked Bautista on Sunday, got a 3 game suspension.
At least the league is doing something about this, it would've been a shame if it went unnoticed.

[trellaine201]

http://baseball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/21837/20100928/longoria_confused_embarrassed_by_low_attendance/

Too many things to do in Florida? Very strange that the Rays get no fans with such a good team! Were not the only team with no attendance.

[Psubs]

http://baseball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/21837/20100928/longoria_confused_embarrassed_by_low_attendance/

Too many things to do in Florida? Very strange that the Rays get no fans with such a good team! Were not the only team with no attendance.

The fans only show up for the playoffs. :facepalm:

(whoa 4 more posts until 8,888)

[nano]

i think they economy has something to do with it.

[Psubs]

i think they economy has something to do with it.

Nah, when the Marlins were really good, they had the same situation. :confused:

[Skip2MyLou]

Final Jays home game of the season tonight. And "THANK YOU CITO NIGHT"!
too bad i'm missing it cause of class, it should be good and should be a packed house!

[MaximDude]

Final Jays home game of the season tonight. And "THANK YOU CITO NIGHT"!
too bad i'm missing it cause of class, it should be good and should be a packed house!

Not a full house, but still good sized crowd except as usual Toronto fans don't cheer all that loudly. :evil:

Wish Torontonians would be more like Montrealers who REALLY know how to cheer for their sports heros.

[Jimboski]

Not a full house, but still good sized crowd except as usual Toronto fans don't cheer all that loudly. :evil:

Wish Torontonians would be more like Montrealers who REALLY know how to cheer for their sports heros.

O lay song? :>

[trellaine201]

I have followed the Jays for a long time and though the ceremony was very very well done. I actually shed a few tears. A very classy guy which is what was instilled on me by my parents. Thanks Cito for the memories.

Who was that last guy that shook Cito's hands before the dugout? Skinny skinny guy? was he a roster player?

[dragon_drift]

http://baseball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/21837/20100928/longoria_confused_embarrassed_by_low_attendance/

Too many things to do in Florida? Very strange that the Rays get no fans with such a good team! Were not the only team with no attendance.

according to wiki, st. petersburg has 248,098 residents. i guess it's not a big market there.

[Maxman]

Anyone else notice how "mellow" Buck and Pat seem tonight... kind of giddy! Almost sounds like discounted "munchies" night, if ya know what I mean!

[Shimso]

i think they economy has something to do with it.

Florida has typically not been a good market for attendance & viewership when it comes to the MLB and NHL, and even the NBA (the Raptors had better attendance than the Heat last year despite the fact that we were a lottery team and they had Dwade and the 5th seed).

[Skip2MyLou]

CITO!

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/5c/2a/9fe619ac445485021c5772a99289.jpeg

Great jesture by Cito, just like Roy Halladay did when he left. Took out a page in the Toronto Star and wrote a letter to the fans. Class act.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/article/867719--cito-gaston-says-so-long-and-thanks-for-the-memories

[bobcat99]

Special game tonight. Great atmosphere. As enjoyable as the Yankees Jays game we watched at Yankee stadium this year.
Wish so many people would come out more often, thought there were more than 33000.

Felt like 92/93 again with Joe and Devo and Pat and Winfield there.

Special, special night and Cito deserved every moment of it.

[mdc]

Thank God he is gone ... I know the sheep who know nothing about baseball love Cito, but hopefully the departure of that hack will mean actual development for this team ...

So long Cito ... please don't come back ever again

I was at the game last night and loved the atmosphere ... but the Cito ***** kissing was nausiating ...

[Psubs]

Thank God he is gone ... I know the sheep who know nothing about baseball love Cito, but hopefully the departure of that hack will mean actual development for this team ...

So long Cito ... please don't come back ever again

I was at the game last night and loved the atmosphere ... but the Cito ***** kissing was nausiating ...

It's good that he was the first black manager to win a World Series and first to win back-to-back ones since the 1977-78 Yankees. I suppose that he paved the way for Obama. :lol:

Buck got his 20th hr and the Jays have clinched a .500 record (just need to go 1-5 to have a winning season) and they are the hottest team in the American League over the last 10 games.

[Skip2MyLou]

idk why so many people hate on Cito.
Yes, he makes stupid decisions at times, but he is the best manager/coach we have ever had in the city of toronto, FOR ANY TORONTO TEAM.
He is mild mannered and hardly loses his cool, always respectful and a class act.

I guess some people would rather have buck martinez back as the manager rather than cito? :lol:

[La Fleur]

idk why so many people hate on Cito.
Yes, he makes stupid decisions at times, but he is the best manager/coach we have ever had in the city of toronto, FOR ANY TORONTO TEAM.
He is mild mannered and hardly loses his cool, always respectful and a class act.

I guess some people would rather have buck martinez back as the manager rather than cito? :lol:

People just love to hate successful individuals. Although Cito has made some unquestionable calls this year - primarily running out his bullpen, giving more playing time to vets than young guys, and not necessarily following the vision of his organization as laid out by the fans or hoped for by the media, there's no denying his ability to help transform players, his class, and genteel nature as a coach. Unfortunately, the Cito of old' was stuck in a new era and he manages the game like it was back then, so it becomes quite apparent and often the reason for fan/media discord. You could say the same of Bobby Cox, and he's only won 1 WS, despite many more years coaching a winning club!

I agree it's time for Cito to go, bring in a younger manager who understands the current ball climate better (much like JP had to leave and AA come in), but Cito was leaps and bounds better than having Schmuck, stutterin' Gibby, or VieTim Johnson as coach.

[Tomy]

Thank God he is gone ... I know the sheep who know nothing about baseball love Cito, but hopefully the departure of that hack will mean actual development for this team ...

So long Cito ... please don't come back ever again

I was at the game last night and loved the atmosphere ... but the Cito ***** kissing was nausiating ...


idk why so many people hate on Cito.
Yes, he makes stupid decisions at times, but he is the best manager/coach we have ever had in the city of toronto, FOR ANY TORONTO TEAM.
He is mild mannered and hardly loses his cool, always respectful and a class act.

I guess some people would rather have buck martinez back as the manager rather than cito? :lol:

he wants john gibbons back!

[mdc]

People just love to hate successful individuals. Although Cito has made some unquestionable calls this year - primarily running out his bullpen, giving more playing time to vets than young guys, and not necessarily following the vision of his organization as laid out by the fans or hoped for by the media, there's no denying his ability to help transform players, his class, and genteel nature as a coach. Unfortunately, the Cito of old' was stuck in a new era and he manages the game like it was back then, so it becomes quite apparent and often the reason for fan/media discord. You could say the same of Bobby Cox, and he's only won 1 WS, despite many more years coaching a winning club!

I agree it's time for Cito to go, bring in a younger manager who understands the current ball climate better (much like JP had to leave and AA come in), but Cito was leaps and bounds better than having Schmuck, stutterin' Gibby, or VieTim Johnson as coach.

oh please ... the teams that Cito managed to World Series victories required no managerial skill whatsoever ... he ran out the sam lineup everyday, had guaranteed pitchers for the 8th and 9th, had no pressure to develop new talent and no reason to manage a game. The same thing is happening with Giradi for the Yanks right now. Even a moron like him and lead this team because it requires only the most basic of baseball skills.

Why is it that as soon as the player turnover occurred in Toronto, Cito had NO success? All of a sudden he didn't have the best team in the league and needed to use some actual strategy ... and failed HORRIBLY. He was fired as a 2 time World Series champ and couldn't get a job anywhere in the league ... not one offer came his way even though he interviewed for several jobs. I guess baseball executives saw the truth ... CITO IS A GREAT HITTING COACH AND A TERRIBLE MANAGER

It also really pisses me off that he is very quick to throw out the race card when anyone gets on his back (see Bob McCown in the 90s and his failure to get a job after he was fired) ... he refuses to admit that his failures were due to his lack of skill and relies on the incredibly lame race card to put the blame on others.

He was the worst possible choice to lead this team this year (and last year) ... management sold these last two years as development years to compete in the next couple of years. So what did Cito do to develop this team? Refused to play Ruiz at first and used the excuse that Overbay should be allowed to play to maximize the potential of gettin a better contract at the end of this year. Refused to play Snider everyday in the same position and the same spot in the order to allow him to develop into the player he should be (and Snider is NOT a lead off hitter on any team in MLB). Refuses to play JP everyday in September to allow Buck to hit 20 HRs to maximize his contract at the end of the year. Constantly leaves in pitchers when every stat says that it is the wrong move (and lost several games because of it - Cito have NO IDEA how to manage pitching in game)

So what exactly does he bring to the table in a managers role ...

He is a nice guy? Who cares? Nice guys don't win games

He is respectful? I'm not even sure this is true. There are several episodes where is has allowed his arrogance and personal feelings dictate his mismanagement of this club.

Being a nice guy and being respectful are not the top qualities I want in a manager ... they are useless traits when it comes to WINNING GAMES ...

You know why Cito is loved in Toronto? It's because we haven't had one manager in the past 20 years who was competent on an elite level. We've had useless manager after useless manager ruin this team (brought in by useless GMs - Gord Ash may have been the worst GM in the history of baseball), so when you look at Cito he doesn't look half bad. The reality is that he wasn't good enough for any other team in the league and the onlu reason he gets any respect in Toronto is because he happened to fall into the job at the exact right time.

I'm glad Cito is gone ... I just hope that AA doesn't repeat the mistakes of the past

[tighty whities]

It's good that he was the first black manager to win a World Series and first to win back-to-back ones since the 1977-78 Yankees. I suppose that he paved the way for Obama. :lol:

Buck got his 20th hr and the Jays have clinched a .500 record (just need to go 1-5 to have a winning season) and they are the hottest team in the American League over the last 10 games.

If the BJs decide not to promote from within, you might see Boston's bench coach Hale (African American) at the helm for the BJs next year, to a much lesser extent, maybe even Farrell.

[tighty whities]

he wants john gibbons back!

Tim Johnson

[krash322]

Was never a fan of Cito, but good luck to him.

[Skip2MyLou]

There's been talk of 3rd base coach Brian Butterfield being promoted to manager.
I would welcome this, he's deserving of a promotion, he's been with the team since 2001, i think?
And does a great job with the infield.

[bobcat99]

Tim Johnson

How about Carlos Toska.

[dragon_drift]

2 bautisa-bombs today...crazy

[gretzky99]

How about Carlos Toska.

how about Buck Martinez.

Then we'll have Sam Cosentino do the play-by-play to replace Buck.

[Jimboski]

2 bautisa-bombs today...crazy

Crazy Indeed, When's the test? :lol:!

[White Comet]

4th deck Grand Slam and a 1st career opposite field HR. The world is coming to an end:lol:

[tighty whities]

How about Carlos Toska.

I was actually going with the biggest fraud to have ever managed the BJs... as a backhanded going away gift to Cito :evil:

[Psubs]

2 bautisa-bombs today...crazy

2 E3 Bombs today even crazier! 6 hr's in total!!!

Are the Jays the most dangerous team, not in the playoffs!?!?!? :facepalm:

[gretzky99]

Are the Jays the most dangerous team, not in the playoffs!?!?!? :facepalm:

Umm NO.
How can a .500 record equate to a "dangerous team"? :facepalm:

[Jimboski]

Umm NO.
How can a .500 record equate to a "dangerous team"? :facepalm:

I think he means by the amount of HR's we hit.

[dragon_drift]

not that dangerous, i mean the jays batting average is soo low. even if home runs are hit, there's no one on base to take advantage of that.

[Psubs]

I think he means by the amount of HR's we hit.

We destroy a division winner that is 2 games behind the best record in baseball. Also rough up their Ace hitting 3 homers off him (only gave up 6 all season before tonight).


Umm NO.
How can a .500 record equate to a "dangerous team"? :facepalm:

They are 7 games above .500 and are the hottest team (tied with SF) in baseball the last 10 games.

[gretzky99]

I think he means by the amount of HR's we hit.

Ok well then if that's the case then on the flip side that means we have one of the sh*ttiest pitching staff in baseball. :-0
We can hit that many homeruns yet we only win half our games?! ;)

[gretzky99]

They are 7 games above .500 and are the hottest team (tied with SF) in baseball the last 10 games.

So what?!?
Correct me if i'm wrong but hasn't every year in September when the Jays are literally out of the playoff race and when there is NO PRESSURE on the team that they usually have an amazing September?

[tighty whities]

They are 7 games above .500 and are the hottest team (tied with SF) in baseball the last 10 games.

now you're grasping for straws. If the Yankees had a 9-1 record over their last 10, but the BJs had a 5-0 record over their last 5, I'm guessing your argument would be that because the Jays had the best record over the last 5 games, they are the most dangerous team. Ask the Rockies how their incredible streak worked out for them in 2007 WS against the Red Sox.


So what?!?
Correct me if i'm wrong but hasn't every year in September when the Jays are literally out of the playoff race and when there is NO PRESSURE on the team that they usually have an amazing September?

finally, was waiting for someone to say this.. people on here saying how great the Jays pitching was this year, let's see how they pitch when games matter

[La Fleur]

Wonder what the Jays will do for '11 in terms of lineup. I'd like to see:

Bautista at first - proved he can play any position and with his pop, we'd finally have a legit power first basemen, also with great defensive range

Escobar, Hill - shortstop/2B, but one of them could also move to third - Hechy is probably too raw to make team next year, but there's no reason why Jays can't prep these guys for different positions starting next year. Plus, our glut of bench players who are infielders, including McCoy and fan fave McDonald.

Third base is the big question mark. I dont see Jays spending big on a DH/1b guy in offseason and Lind's ability at first is suspect at the moment, so Bautista would be better off at first, leaving third vacant for Edwin. Despite a decent rebound year, this guy has to go. Bad defense, lack of hustle. Yea, he could probably hit 30 dongs if he was healthy and showed up every night, but there are far better options out there.

Arencibia also a big question mark, but I think he remains catcher for time being and works under tutelage of Molina. Molina has had some decent average and decent defense, but he should really just be a veteran backup while Arencibia gets most playing time. Buck will go - no question. He shot up the fantasy charts this year and catcher is always thin, so Jays don't have the cash to bring him back.

OF a combo of Snider, Lewis, Wells, Bautista, and Lind. I think Lind better served in the OF. Hard to say where Lewis stands - kind of the odd man out, but his ability to steal bases and hit for average are something the Jays need more of. Bautista could rotate in OF/IF

Lind at DH most of the time, but I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Arencibia work some DH as well on the nights where Molina catches. I think Arencibia could be great, but like Snider, needs a good stretch of playing time to warm up.

[Skip2MyLou]

Ok well then if that's the case then on the flip side that means we have one of the sh*ttiest pitching staff in baseball. :-0
We can hit that many homeruns yet we only win half our games?! ;)

no, our pitching staff is actually very solid.
Everyone's ERA is under 4.00 in the big 4 (marcum, romero, cecil, morrow).
And everyone has at least 12 wins.

it's our bullpen that sucks, with the exception of maybe downs, camp, purcey, and gregg.

[Skip2MyLou]

4th deck Grand Slam and a 1st career opposite field HR. The world is coming to an end:lol:

OH MY GOD!
that was a bomb! upper deck grand slam, holy ****.

And I was hoping this didn't happen but he finally hit an opposite field homerun LOL :lol:

[bobcat99]

Umm NO.
How can a .500 record equate to a "dangerous team"? :facepalm:

Actually yes.
They are not .500 they are 7 games over.
When you have to play the Yankees, Boston and the Rays 54 times times it doesn't help.

[mdc]

Wonder what the Jays will do for '11 in terms of lineup. I'd like to see:

Bautista at first - proved he can play any position and with his pop, we'd finally have a legit power first basemen, also with great defensive range

Escobar, Hill - shortstop/2B, but one of them could also move to third - Hechy is probably too raw to make team next year, but there's no reason why Jays can't prep these guys for different positions starting next year. Plus, our glut of bench players who are infielders, including McCoy and fan fave McDonald.

Third base is the big question mark. I dont see Jays spending big on a DH/1b guy in offseason and Lind's ability at first is suspect at the moment, so Bautista would be better off at first, leaving third vacant for Edwin. Despite a decent rebound year, this guy has to go. Bad defense, lack of hustle. Yea, he could probably hit 30 dongs if he was healthy and showed up every night, but there are far better options out there.

Arencibia also a big question mark, but I think he remains catcher for time being and works under tutelage of Molina. Molina has had some decent average and decent defense, but he should really just be a veteran backup while Arencibia gets most playing time. Buck will go - no question. He shot up the fantasy charts this year and catcher is always thin, so Jays don't have the cash to bring him back.

OF a combo of Snider, Lewis, Wells, Bautista, and Lind. I think Lind better served in the OF. Hard to say where Lewis stands - kind of the odd man out, but his ability to steal bases and hit for average are something the Jays need more of. Bautista could rotate in OF/IF

Lind at DH most of the time, but I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Arencibia work some DH as well on the nights where Molina catches. I think Arencibia could be great, but like Snider, needs a good stretch of playing time to warm up.

I like where you are going with this, but I think they are still missing a major piece ... leadoff/speed/base stealer. No one on this team (Lewis included ... his OBP is way too low for the type of player he should be ... and his defense is average at best) is a legit lead off man and no one on this team is a legit base stealer/distractor

There is one guy this year that the Jays should go for that will make a major impact and bring this team to the next level ... Carl Crawford

I know I know ... he is going to the Yankees right? The Jays may have to overpay a little and I say go for it. The lose BJ Ryans salary at the end of this season and Overbay's 7 mill is gone ... that is 17 million off the books on a team who's salary is already pretty low (not having to may ace pitcher money to any of the staff is a major bonus for this team) ... for the Jays to compete, they have to be in the $120 million range ... after this season (depending on what happens with Bautista) they will be at the ~$60 million level. Rogers has the cash ... it's time to spend it. Crawford transforms this team from a pretender to contender ... and keeps him away from the Yankees (who are aging rapidly) and the Rays (who can't keep that team together much longer).

The rest of the money needs to go to the bullpen (losing a few arms this year) ...

I know Carl Crawford is a HUGE longshot, but this is exactly the man we need to get to the next level

[Psubs]

Ok well then if that's the case then on the flip side that means we have one of the sh*ttiest pitching staff in baseball. :-0
We can hit that many homeruns yet we only win half our games?! ;)

Bullpen is crap and need a 5th starter, but in the playoffs, would go to a 4-man rotation.

Tallet's era is like 6. Others in the pen give up the runs in close games but do okay when the pressure is off, so their era isn't that bad, but results in loses.


now you're grasping for straws. If the Yankees had a 9-1 record over their last 10, but the BJs had a 5-0 record over their last 5, I'm guessing your argument would be that because the Jays had the best record over the last 5 games, they are the most dangerous team. Ask the Rockies how their incredible streak worked out for them in 2007 WS against the Red Sox.

finally, was waiting for someone to say this.. people on here saying how great the Jays pitching was this year, let's see how they pitch when games matter

June was a bad month and the hitting went dry, sans Bautista. I always comment on the last 10 games. Heck Minnesota lost 5 games in a row like a week ago and their games matter. :facepalm:


Actually yes.
They are not .500 they are 7 games over.
When you have to play the Yankees, Boston and the Rays 54 times times it doesn't help.

Next year is the Jays year to make a push.

[Psubs]

I like where you are going with this, but I think they are still missing a major piece ... leadoff/speed/base stealer. No one on this team (Lewis included ... his OBP is way too low for the type of player he should be ... and his defense is average at best) is a legit lead off man and no one on this team is a legit base stealer/distractor

There is one guy this year that the Jays should go for that will make a major impact and bring this team to the next level ... Carl Crawford

I know I know ... he is going to the Yankees right? The Jays may have to overpay a little and I say go for it. The lose BJ Ryans salary at the end of this season and Overbay's 7 mill is gone ... that is 17 million off the books on a team who's salary is already pretty low (not having to may ace pitcher money to any of the staff is a major bonus for this team) ... for the Jays to compete, they have to be in the $120 million range ... after this season (depending on what happens with Bautista) they will be at the ~$60 million level. Rogers has the cash ... it's time to spend it. Crawford transforms this team from a pretender to contender ... and keeps him away from the Yankees (who are aging rapidly) and the Rays (who can't keep that team together much longer).

The rest of the money needs to go to the bullpen (losing a few arms this year) ...

I know Carl Crawford is a HUGE longshot, but this is exactly the man we need to get to the next level

Maybe trade Rzepcinski and a catcher for a closer?!?!?

Have Purcey and Gregg as setup guys.

Romero
Marcum
Morrow
Cecil
Drabek?

I would like to keep Buck and let Molina go.

1. Crawford - LF / CF
2. Escobar - SS
3. Bautista - RF / 3B
4. Wells - CF
5. Lind - 1B
6. Snider - DH / LF / RF
7. Buck / Arencibia - C
8. Hill - 2B
9. Encarnacion? - 3B

Would the Jays get sandwich picks for letting go Downs, Overbay, Lewis, Molina, Wise? Actually, I'd like to keep Wise as an extra out-fielder for the minimum and J-McD as the utility infielder.

[bobcat99]

oh please ... the teams that Cito managed to World Series victories required no managerial skill whatsoever ...

I guess that's why Joe Torre won so many WS in New York from 2001 to 2007.;)

[La Fleur]

I like where you are going with this, but I think they are still missing a major piece ... leadoff/speed/base stealer. No one on this team (Lewis included ... his OBP is way too low for the type of player he should be ... and his defense is average at best) is a legit lead off man and no one on this team is a legit base stealer/distractor

There is one guy this year that the Jays should go for that will make a major impact and bring this team to the next level ... Carl Crawford

I know I know ... he is going to the Yankees right? The Jays may have to overpay a little and I say go for it. The lose BJ Ryans salary at the end of this season and Overbay's 7 mill is gone ... that is 17 million off the books on a team who's salary is already pretty low (not having to may ace pitcher money to any of the staff is a major bonus for this team) ... for the Jays to compete, they have to be in the $120 million range ... after this season (depending on what happens with Bautista) they will be at the ~$60 million level. Rogers has the cash ... it's time to spend it. Crawford transforms this team from a pretender to contender ... and keeps him away from the Yankees (who are aging rapidly) and the Rays (who can't keep that team together much longer).

The rest of the money needs to go to the bullpen (losing a few arms this year) ...

I know Carl Crawford is a HUGE longshot, but this is exactly the man we need to get to the next level

I agree and this has been my major beef all year with the Jays. I always fight with my buddies over what's best - the AL, free swing style or NL, small ball style, but Tampa and LAA have both proven in recent years you can combine both for an extended time of success in the AL. I think Escobar is their best leadoff guy at the moment. He will hit .300 next year or pretty close to it. His lack of aggressiveness on the basepaths is a bit dissapointing, but that can definitely be taught, he does have some speed. Plus he can lay the bunt rather well.

Jays will not get Crawford. Neither will the Yankees most likely. Brett Gardner is a hugely underrated OF and is a great leadoff type of guy. Plus, with Granderson's big paychque, and Swisher's big season, NY is pretty much set in the OF. He will definitely not be in Tampa. Crawford is top 10 fantasy player and will ask for huge coin this year, which Tampa doesn't have. I'm really hoping he goes to LAA and stays out of the East, which is pretty possible. LAA loves to play Crawford's style of ball and I could see him fit well with guys like Abreu and Hunter, who also combine speed and power quite well. LAA will be hard pressed to compete against a stacked offense in Texas and a fantastic rotation in Oakland next year, so I hope they throw tons of cash at Crawford. Boston will most likely do anything possible to get him too, but it depends if they try to get Fielder instead. Sox already have tons of speed and a good OF in Ellsbury, Nava, and Drew/Cameron - but clearly this has holes - i.e. inexperience and injury prone players.

[La Fleur]

Maybe trade Rzepcinski and a catcher for a closer?!?!?

Have Purcey and Gregg as setup guys.

Romero
Marcum
Morrow
Cecil
Drabek?

I would like to keep Buck and let Molina go.

1. Crawford - LF / CF
2. Escobar - SS
3. Bautista - RF / 3B
4. Wells - CF
5. Lind - 1B
6. Snider - DH / LF / RF
7. Buck / Arencibia - C
8. Hill - 2B
9. Encarnacion? - 3B

Would the Jays get sandwich picks for letting go Downs, Overbay, Lewis, Molina, Wise? Actually, I'd like to keep Wise as an extra out-fielder for the minimum and J-McD as the utility infielder.

Take Crawford out of the picture, that's clearly not gonna happen (I know you are just building off his post, though). Also, there's no doubt Buck is gone - 30 year old catcher possibly hitting his career best, he will ask for top dollar.

This is what I think the Jays should roll with:

1. Escobar
2. Hill
3. Wells
4. Bautista
5. Snider
6. Lind
7. Arencibia/ whoever is back-up catcher
8. Lewis/Wise/ other OF/IF guy
9. Encarnacions/3b/other infield guy

Escobar best avg., good speed. Him and Hill might be willing to do some tandem base stealing to avoid Wells doing his usual DP to end the inning. Wells is a doubles machine and both Esco and Hill would score. Bautista should be rewarded with cleanup, and Snider right after, as both have the best raw power IMO. Snider would do well at 5th as he's likely to lead off some innings as well in that spot and has good speed for his size. Then Lind, Arencibia, and so forth. Hard to say until the picture is clearer regarding Encarnacion, how much Wise/Lewis and Johnny Mac play, plus if anyone is signed.

[tighty whities]

I agree and this has been my major beef all year with the Jays. I always fight with my buddies over what's best - the AL, free swing style or NL, small ball style, but Tampa and LAA have both proven in recent years you can combine both for an extended time of success in the AL. I think Escobar is their best leadoff guy at the moment. He will hit .300 next year or pretty close to it. His lack of aggressiveness on the basepaths is a bit dissapointing, but that can definitely be taught, he does have some speed. Plus he can lay the bunt rather well.

Jays will not get Crawford. Neither will the Yankees most likely. Brett Gardner is a hugely underrated OF and is a great leadoff type of guy. Plus, with Granderson's big paychque, and Swisher's big season, NY is pretty much set in the OF. He will definitely not be in Tampa. Crawford is top 10 fantasy player and will ask for huge coin this year, which Tampa doesn't have. I'm really hoping he goes to LAA and stays out of the East, which is pretty possible. LAA loves to play Crawford's style of ball and I could see him fit well with guys like Abreu and Hunter, who also combine speed and power quite well. LAA will be hard pressed to compete against a stacked offense in Texas and a fantastic rotation in Oakland next year, so I hope they throw tons of cash at Crawford. Boston will most likely do anything possible to get him too, but it depends if they try to get Fielder instead. Sox already have tons of speed and a good OF in Ellsbury, Nava, and Drew/Cameron - but clearly this has holes - i.e. inexperience and injury prone players.

I agree that the Jays will most likely not get Crawford. Although they were willing to spend big on Chapman, I can't see Rogers opening up their wallet up for over $100m

I would put Kalish and McDonald much further ahead than Nava. I can't see the Sox going after Fielder ahead of Werth, especially if they are able to resign Martinez. Acquiring Werth allows them to use Ellsbury as trade bait (to acquire Gonzalez). Kalish has much better defense ..routes to balls; can play all 3 of positions, arm, power, and approach than Ellsbury.

[mdc]

This is the line up that didn't compete this year ... why would it compete next year?

Even if Hill and Lind hit better than this year (their averages are both an embarasment), this line up does not have what it takes to play a full season and catch the Yank/Sox/Rays ... not to mention the O's who may have a better hitting team than the Jays and will likely ramp up their picthing in the off season in hopes of catching the rest.

The Jays need a major boost in the offseason ... you go in with the line up you posted and they finish 2011 exactly the same way they finished 2010 ... 5-10 games over 500 and 8-12 games out of the play offs ... *snore*

This lineup may hit homeruns ... but the pathetic batting average/OBP top to bottom will not take you to the playoffs. I still say Crawford is a possibility and they should make a MAJOR push for him. He is a perfect fit. If not him, you definetly have to look at other options. This line up as is will NEVER compete in the AL East ... NEVER


Take Crawford out of the picture, that's clearly not gonna happen (I know you are just building off his post, though). Also, there's no doubt Buck is gone - 30 year old catcher possibly hitting his career best, he will ask for top dollar.

This is what I think the Jays should roll with:

1. Escobar
2. Hill
3. Wells
4. Bautista
5. Snider
6. Lind
7. Arencibia/ whoever is back-up catcher
8. Lewis/Wise/ other OF/IF guy
9. Encarnacions/3b/other infield guy

Escobar best avg., good speed. Him and Hill might be willing to do some tandem base stealing to avoid Wells doing his usual DP to end the inning. Wells is a doubles machine and both Esco and Hill would score. Bautista should be rewarded with cleanup, and Snider right after, as both have the best raw power IMO. Snider would do well at 5th as he's likely to lead off some innings as well in that spot and has good speed for his size. Then Lind, Arencibia, and so forth. Hard to say until the picture is clearer regarding Encarnacion, how much Wise/Lewis and Johnny Mac play, plus if anyone is signed.

[bobcat99]

This is the line up that didn't compete this year ... why would it compete next year?

Didn't compete? They are 10th out of 30 teams at the moment again with 3 of the better teams than them in the same division.

[tighty whities]

I think the BJs should build/play in a real ball park, i.e. not playing in an entertainment centre.
There's a "feel" whenever I'm at Fenway, NY stadium or Wrigley.. I don't get that feel here.

Although I guess the fans at the Rogers Centre could be a factor.

[Skip2MyLou]

I think the BJs should build/play in a real ball park, i.e. not playing in an entertainment centre.
There's a "feel" whenever I'm at Fenway, NY stadium or Wrigley.. I don't get that feel here.

Although I guess the fans at the Rogers Centre could be a factor.

i guess it's cause its a dome...but yeah, its not a real ballpark, since its artificial turf.

[grappos13]

cmon jays.. 4 HR a game over the final 3 games and u get the record!! :)

[Jimboski]

cmon jays.. 4 HR a game over the final 3 games and u get the record!! :)

Yeah. Even If we don't get the record at least were still on the list :).

[dragon_drift]

I hope Bautista gets at least one more.

[mdc]

Didn't compete? They are 10th out of 30 teams at the moment again with 3 of the better teams than them in the same division.

They are 11 games out of a playoff spot ... that is NOT competing!

I don't care if they are 10th out of 30 teams ... if you aren't in a playoff race in the last 2 months of the season, you aren't competing!

They play in the AL East ... the standard is raised above all of the other divisions. You know that there will be at least 2 (probably 3) teams that win 90+ games every year ... if you aren't one of those teams, you aren't competing!

That is reality. I don't care if they would be competitive in the AL West or Central ... I don't care if they would dominate in the NL ... the ARE in the AL East 80-88 wins is NEVER going to be enough ... right now they are an ~85 win team ... not enough. Not now, not ever

[nano]

Drabek needs another half season in the minors at least. The jays needs 2-3 yrs to be contenders.

[Psubs]

E3 now has 19 homers. :lol: Let's make it another 20 hitter.

KC beat Tampa 7-0. :razz:

If the Jays sweep the Twins, I think that makes a case for being dangerous. All of the playoff teams are playing like crap this past week. :facepalm:

[tighty whities]

I still say Crawford is a possibility and they should make a MAJOR push for him. He is a perfect fit. If not him, you definetly have to look at other options. This line up as is will NEVER compete in the AL East ... NEVER

Agree, they'll probably make a strong push, even a surprise one like they did with BJ Ryan or Chapman. But with who they're bidding against, it's likely they'll come up short.

If Werth signs first with the Red Sox, that would totally make the picture much clearer and take one of the biggest bidders out there off the list (unlikely, with Boras as his agent). But with Werth expected to sign after the other comparable big name free agents (Boras' tendency), that would leave the Sox in the mix for Crawford, which automatically brings the Yankees into this (whether it's genuine interest or to drive up the price for the Sox) and it's already known that the Angels are interested.. probably making him too rich for the Jays.

[tighty whities]

Drabek needs another half season in the minors at least. The jays needs 2-3 yrs to be contenders.


wow, a jays fan who's being realistic. :-0

[bobcat99]

Drabek needs another half season in the minors at least. The jays needs 2-3 yrs to be contenders.

If they can bring back the same coaching staff next year and put some pieces together it will be sooner than that. They have won only 10 games less than NY or Tampa, over 162 games a couple of breaks here and there they would have been right up there this year.

[tighty whities]

If they can bring back the same coaching staff next year and put some pieces together it will be sooner than that. They have won only 10 games less than NY or Tampa, over 162 games a couple of breaks here and there they would have been right up there this year.

Don't forget the Red Sox


Bullpen is crap and need a 5th starter, but in the playoffs, would go to a 4-man rotation.
Next year is the Jays year to make a push.

don't know of any teams have ever gone into the playoffs with a 5 man :facepalm:


June was a bad month and the hitting went dry, sans Bautista. I always comment on the last 10 games. Heck Minnesota lost 5 games in a row like a week ago and their games matter. :facepalm:

Well, the Jays have a better record over the past 10 and the Twins lost 5. I'd say the Twins are more of a threat in the playoffs than the Jays would be.. if they were in it. The "games matter" bit, players usually perform better when there is no stress/pressure

[dragon_drift]

E3 now has 19 homers. :lol: Let's make it another 20 hitter.

KC beat Tampa 7-0. :razz:

If the Jays sweep the Twins, I think that makes a case for being dangerous. All of the playoff teams are playing like crap this past week. :facepalm:

You do know that the Twins are resting some of their starting players, right? Even the other teams that made it in already are resting some of their resting players for the playoffs.

[trellaine201]

LOL at Gregg :facepalm:

[grappos13]

i hate gregg soo much lol...

wanted the jays to go for 10 games above 500 with a sweep.. but nope :(

[Skip2MyLou]

WOW KEVIN GREGG :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm:

Walks the bases loaded, and ****ing blows IT!
ruining Marcum's career high 14th win.
Just when I thought he was getting better and started liking him again. HE BLOWS IT!
NO COMMAND AT ALL.

[trellaine201]

WOW KEVIN GREGG :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm:

Walks the bases loaded, and ****ing blows IT!
ruining Marcum's career high 14th win.
Just when I thought he was getting better and started liking him again. HE BLOWS IT!
NO COMMAND AT ALL.

He couldn't hit the strike zone if his life depended on it. He was getting great help from the man behind the plate LOL. did you see some of those called strikes lol

[inntents]

I think he just needs to CHEW HARDER!!!!!>:(

[gretzky99]

WOW KEVIN GREGG :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm:

Walks the bases loaded, and ****ing blows IT!
ruining Marcum's career high 14th win.
Just when I thought he was getting better and started liking him again. HE BLOWS IT!
NO COMMAND AT ALL.

Looks like Cito has taken his retirement gift of 4 all expenses-paid-for travel tickets and started his retirement early i guess...;)

[Manatus]

People say he doesn't blow that many, but that's not counting all the times he's let the lead get down to one, or been bailed out by a great defensive play. He's definitely not dominant... makes me miss the old (pre-injury) B.J. Ryan, where you knew the opposition would be lucky to get one man on base.

[Flash3]

Though Jose Bautista was hitless in the entire game, he joined some quite elite company with that single walk. He became 1 of only 7 players in MLB history to have 50 HRs, 30 doubles, and 100 walks in a season (Babe Ruth, Hack Wilson, Jimmie Foxx, Sammy Sosa, Luis Gonzalez and Barry Bonds). Also note that only 2 walks to Bautista all season were intentional (compared to the boat load of free passes Bonds got all the time).

[Skip2MyLou]

Though Jose Bautista was hitless in the entire game, he joined some quite elite company with that single walk. He became 1 of only 7 players in MLB history to have 50 HRs, 30 doubles, and 100 walks in a season (Babe Ruth, Hack Wilson, Jimmie Foxx, Sammy Sosa, Luis Gonzalez and Barry Bonds). Also note that only 2 walks to Bautista all season were intentional (compared to the boat load of free passes Bonds got all the time).

yep, great plate discipline and great eye for a homerun hitter.
his OBP definitely more than makes up for his batting average.
People say his batting average is bad cause its .260, but you look at his OBP and he's in the top 10 with .380.
Compare his OPS and he's in the top 3, definitely makes a strong case for MVP.
He needs 3 RBIs tomorrow to take the lead in RBI, let's hope he gets it!

[nano]

If they can bring back the same coaching staff next year and put some pieces together it will be sooner than that. They have won only 10 games less than NY or Tampa, over 162 games a couple of breaks here and there they would have been right up there this year.
The pitchers want Walton back and I'm sure the hitters want Murphy back too. I hope they promote from within for the team manager position.

[Psubs]

A fitting comeback 2-1 victory with 2 solo homers by E5 (on fiya finishes with 21) and Adam Lind. E5 only played 95 games, say he played like 1.5 times more games he'd hit 30 homers and 75 rbi. lol

85-77 taking 3 of 4 from Minnesota. :)

Maybe Camp should be the closer and Gregg the setup man? Better WHIP, SO/BB, GO/AO. Camp is only 2 for 4 in save opportunities, so would need to win the job in spring-training.

[mdc]

Just a small annoyance ... his nickname is not E3 ... It's E5

[Psubs]

Just a small annoyance ... his nickname is not E3 ... It's E5

:facepalm:

:confused:

[mdc]

E3 would imply that he plays 1B ;)

[NDman]

Normally, I can't put myself to rooting for the Phillies. But this is the reason why I will be rooting for them, this year

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs/2010/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=5644528

I really hope Doc will get a ring

[trellaine201]

Normally, I can't put myself to rooting for the Phillies. But this is the reason why I will be rooting for them, this year

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs/2010/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=5644528

I really hope Doc will get a ring

No kidding. I hate the Phillies BUT on a personal note I hope Doc pitches the final game to win the WS2010 :)

[Skip2MyLou]

Halladay / Oswalt / Hamels

all 3 are pitching at the top of their game in the past september.
It looks like Phillies are the favourite to win it all this year.
Best 3 man rotation in the playoffs.

[bobcat99]

Halladay / Oswalt / Hamels

all 3 are pitching at the top of their game in the past september.
It looks like Phillies are the favourite to win it all this year.
Best 3 man rotation in the playoffs.

DOC is the last person I want to see get a WS ring since he orchestrated his move from the Jays. He could have stayed here up to this year and would have been a UFA. 10 more wins and the Jays would have been in the playoffs, if DOC was here they would have had those 10 wins. I wonder if he was responsible for any of the problems in the club house last year. Him and Brad Arnsburg seeing someone bigger than them in Cito.
Yes I know he gave a lot here but did get nicely compensated for it. (hang on ..putting on flame gear).
Go Reds and Joey Votto.

[djstiles]

DOC is the last person I want to see get a WS ring since he orchestrated his move from the Jays. He could have stayed here up to this year and would have been a UFA. 10 more wins and the Jays would have been in the playoffs, if DOC was here they would have had those 10 wins. I wonder if he was responsible for any of the problems in the club house last year. Him and Brad Arnsburg seeing someone bigger than them in Cito.
Yes I know he gave a lot here but did get nicely compensated for it. (hang on ..putting on flame gear).
Go Reds and Joey Votto.

Wow, not to many people will go on record saying that Halladay is the last person they want to see win a WS ring.

As a lifelong Phillies fan, I'm pumped for Roy to be in the playoffs with a team that has the tools to win another WS. Sorry Reds fans, but a rotation of Halladay/Hamels/Oswalt is plain SCARY for opposing hitters and I think the Reds will be in and out of the playoffs in the first round.

[Skip2MyLou]

DOC is the last person I want to see get a WS ring since he orchestrated his move from the Jays. He could have stayed here up to this year and would have been a UFA. 10 more wins and the Jays would have been in the playoffs, if DOC was here they would have had those 10 wins. I wonder if he was responsible for any of the problems in the club house last year. Him and Brad Arnsburg seeing someone bigger than them in Cito.
Yes I know he gave a lot here but did get nicely compensated for it. (hang on ..putting on flame gear).
Go Reds and Joey Votto.

lol you cant say that if halladay was here we would get 10 wins, cause then the young guys wouldn't be playing so well.
The main reason they played so well this year was cause of Halladay leaving, they felt that they had to one up each other every night because everyone was on even playing ground. And the 4 guys ended up bonding together and are now really close, they never had that with halladay because he was always serious and never joking around.
If you've seen them in a dugout this year, the pitchers are always screwing around with each other, jokingly.
if you add doc's 10 wins or whatever, you need to take away a few wins from each pitcher and also the 5th spot on the rotation (those wins wouldn't count), which basically evens out and we'd end up with around the same record.

anyways, i would still love to see the phillies win and have halladay get his ring + possibly mvp trophy?

[Jimboski]

No kidding. I hate the Phillies BUT on a personal note I hope Doc pitches the final game to win the WS2010 :)

Me too, I hope the phillies get sweeped In the first round..

[Psubs]

lol you cant say that if halladay was here we would get 10 wins, cause then the young guys wouldn't be playing so well.
The main reason they played so well this year was cause of Halladay leaving, they felt that they had to one up each other every night because everyone was on even playing ground. And the 4 guys ended up bonding together and are now really close, they never had that with halladay because he was always serious and never joking around.
If you've seen them in a dugout this year, the pitchers are always screwing around with each other, jokingly.
if you add doc's 10 wins or whatever, you need to take away a few wins from each pitcher and also the 5th spot on the rotation (those wins wouldn't count), which basically evens out and we'd end up with around the same record.

anyways, i would still love to see the phillies win and have halladay get his ring + possibly mvp trophy?

Well, they wouldn't have needed Tallet to start ANY games and come in less games.

Halladay
Marcum
Romero
Morrow
Cecil

Chemistry may have been different but may have avoided such a disappointing June. Would they finish higher than NY or Tampa, maybe not. Philly is still the better choice for him.

[Spray]

Halladay 7 no hit innings so far.

Looking absolutely disgustingly filthy.

[Asmegin]

8 inning no hitter! 3 outs to go

[congenic]

Halladay 7 no hit innings so far.

Looking absolutely disgustingly filthy.

Gooo Halladay!

[dragon_drift]

haha doc also got his first career playoff RBI =)

[Asmegin]

2 outs!!

[Asmegin]

No hitter!!! Awesome

[congenic]

Congrats Doc! What an amazing performance!

[dragon_drift]

that was NASTY~!

congrats doc!!!

[Skip2MyLou]

Wow I'd like to see the guys who posted earlier today hate on Halladay now!
WTF this guy is a monster, how can you not like him and not want him to win a ring!!!

[La Fleur]

DOCTOBER, baby!

[congenic]

Post game interview!

[Jimboski]

Wow I'd like to see the guys who posted earlier today hate on Halladay now!
WTF this guy is a monster, how can you not like him and not want him to win a ring!!!

I like him but I don't like the Phillies :).

Gj Doc.

[bobcat99]

Wow I'd like to see the guys who posted earlier today hate on Halladay now!
WTF this guy is a monster, how can you not like him and not want him to win a ring!!!

That was me.. in my face eh. :o
Great performance, wish he could have done it here though... I guess I am a bit bitter not having seen the Jays in the playoffs in 17 years.. and in no way I am blaming Halladay for all those years. .. just if he was here it could have been different this year.

[White Comet]

Man, awesome game. Congrats to Halladay on finally pitching in the post-season...and what a way to start it off :)

[nano]

i wouldn't be stunned if he has more then one no hitter.

[Psubs]

i wouldn't be stunned if he has more then one no hitter.

Perfect game to clinch the WS would be nice. :)

[Beeg]

More bad news about Robbie.

[Skip2MyLou]

More bad news about Robbie.

Rommie Lewis? did he get claimed?

We lost Jarret Haufpauir a few days ago, claims by the padres.

[nano]

Good to see him gone I feel he was worse then e5 jose is going to be the man no 3 rd next yr

[nano]

Man on third there is no edit option on the moble website : /

[trellaine201]

I really thought the Rays would put up much more of a fight. They are getting their asses kicked in the series.

[White Comet]

Probably because they're still pissed that their fans didn't show up when they clinched the division title? But I thought the Rays always sucked vs. Rangers

[Maxman]

Rommie Lewis? did he get claimed?

We lost Jarret Haufpauir a few days ago, claims by the padres.

No, Robbie Alomar. His wife is divorcing him and sueing, claiming he has aids and didn't tell her. He's already being sued by a gf claiming the same thing.

[trellaine201]

Some very shady umping so far in the MLB playoffs.

[tighty whities]

haven't watched any playoff games yet so I don't know the scoop.

I read the box score and noticed Garza didn't pitch and that Shields was the SP this afternoon, is Garza hurt for the Rays? or did Maddon just make a horrible decision?

[trellaine201]

haven't watched any playoff games yet so I don't know the scoop.

I read the box score and noticed Garza didn't pitch and that Shields was the SP this afternoon, is Garza hurt for the Rays? or did Maddon just make a horrible decision?

I thought I overheard he will pitch the next game. I loved when Shields pitched against the Jays. He gives up "meatballs" and we know how well Jays hit the longball.

[tighty whities]

I thought I overheard he will pitch the next game. I loved when Shields pitched against the Jays. He gives up "meatballs" and we know how well Jays hit the longball.

thanks.

Garza should be well rested, weird.
Shields shouldn't even be a starter in the playoffs. Not sure what Maddon was thinking.

[skyblue12]

thanks.

Garza should be well rested, weird.
Shields shouldn't even be a starter in the playoffs. Not sure what Maddon was thinking.

yeah shields has struggled all season.. why didn't they go with niemann in the 3rd game, and garza in the 2nd?

[Skip2MyLou]

yeah shields has struggled all season.. why didn't they go with niemann in the 3rd game, and garza in the 2nd?

Definitely should've went with garza after losing game 1.
But no way for neimann LOL, his numbers after he came back from the injury was disgusting.

[Shimso]

I really thought the Rays would put up much more of a fight. They are getting their asses kicked in the series.

They drew just over 35,000 in both games....on average more people show up to an Edmonton Eskimos or Seattle Sounders FC game...

[Psubs]

They drew just over 35,000 in both games....on average more people show up to an Edmonton Eskimos or Seattle Sounders FC game...

Bubye Carl Crawford. Come to Toronto! :razz:

[Skip2MyLou]

Bubye Carl Crawford. Come to Toronto! :razz:

Crawford going to NYY most likely. :mad::facepalm:

[dragon_drift]

Crawford going to NYY most likely. :mad::facepalm:

makes the most sense. he'll go where the money is unless he's a yankee hater.

[trellaine201]

Crawford going to NYY most likely. :mad::facepalm:

Yep or Boston etc, always the same characters. No budgets.

[Skip2MyLou]

Think about having Crawford lead off instead of Jeter, and having crawford playing LF instead of Gardner!
Brutal.
They could also have Gardner / Crawford batting 9th-1st, which would be a lethal base stealing combination.

[White Comet]

Pretty brutal game for the Reds tonight. They were winning until they blew themselves up and gift-wrapped a W to the Phillies.

Talking about comebacks, can't believe the Braves pulled it off with Ankiel homering in the 11th into the Bay and Gonzo, using Cito logic, pulled a ball to left-center for 2 RBIs. Probably would've been a HR in RC lol.

But man, this post-season, the umps have been brutal. Is there a game where they did not blow a call?

[djstiles]

Great sweep by the Phillies! Hamels was spot on tonight and really showed his dominance. He has been AMAZING since the All-Star break!

He has never lost at the Great American Ballpark and keeps dominating Cincy!

[bobcat99]

Jays will be smart to get Eric Henski if they want to get to the Playoffs next year.
He has been to the playoffs 4 straight times (all with different teams Boston, TB, NY and Atlanta) since 2007 and winning the WS twice (Boston , NY)

[heimdal]

Jays will be smart to get Eric Henski if they want to get to the Playoffs next year.
He has been to the playoffs 4 straight times (all with different teams Boston, TB, NY and Atlanta) since 2007 and winning the WS twice (Boston , NY)

We had him for 4 or 5 years and we never got into the playoffs. So no.

If he continues at that rate though, he's going to be the Robert Horry of baseball.

[trellaine201]

I am on the west coast. Thus I have sportsnet pacific HD. MLB first round is shown or has been shown on Sportsnet. No game tonight on sportsnet pacific. >:( This makes absolutely no sense. It's no wonder I have Directv.

Why in the world wouldn't they show it......poker? billiards? anyone

[bobcat99]

Another choke job by Bobby Cox and his team. If he goes to the Hall of Fame so should Cito.
Not surprisingly, the only game they won was when he was thrown out.

[Tomy]

We had him for 4 or 5 years and we never got into the playoffs. So no.

If he continues at that rate though, he's going to be the Robert Horry of baseball.

is it just me or did hinske get extremely big and fat.. i didnt recognize him last night

[megalison]

Can anyone remind me on why Hinske was even let go? Looking back at his numbers now as a Jay he wasn't too bad... 15hr/68rbi at around a .260 clip couldn't have been bad for the team when we have guys like Overbay/Encarnacion who roughly hit around the same mark.

[rooney11]

Can anyone remind me on why Hinske was even let go? Looking back at his numbers now as a Jay he wasn't too bad... 15hr/68rbi at around a .260 clip couldn't have been bad for the team when we have guys like Overbay/Encarnacion who roughly hit around the same mark.

I think his numbers were dropping after having a good first season (rookie of the year), plus he was moved all over the place from 3rd base to 1st (after we got glaus and overbay) then moved to right or centre field.

[tighty whities]

Can anyone remind me on why Hinske was even let go? Looking back at his numbers now as a Jay he wasn't too bad... 15hr/68rbi at around a .260 clip couldn't have been bad for the team when we have guys like Overbay/Encarnacion who roughly hit around the same mark.

those numbers are weak for a corner and he was nothing special defensively, so definitely expendable.

[trellaine201]

those numbers are weak for a corner and he was nothing special defensively, so definitely expendable.

One year wonder pretty much.

[Skip2MyLou]

Cliff Lee is undefeated in post season play with a career 1.52 ERA.
6-0 in 7 starts.
Mr. October?
I wonder if he can keep this up throughout the rest of this post season.
I'm definitely still hoping for a Rangers/Phillies world series.

[vchan81]

Cliff Lee is a great pitcher... wow.... what a gem he threw last night. I wonder where Carl Crawford goes now?

[Flash3]

Cody Ross with 2 dingers off Halladay last night. Random and useless fact: Cody Ross spelt backwards is Ssory Doc. :lol:

[Psubs]

Cody Ross with 2 dingers off Halladay last night. Random and useless fact: Cody Ross spelt backwards is Ssory Doc. :lol:

Nice! Dude is on fire; hits another off Oswalt.

[Abel4Life]

Yankees Payroll > Texas Payroll by 152 million. If Yanks lose they are horrible. Enough said.

Interesting Article with the breakdown:

http://gossipsports.com/?p=684

[skyblue12]

Cliff Lee is undefeated in post season play with a career 1.52 ERA.
6-0 in 7 starts.
Mr. October?
I wonder if he can keep this up throughout the rest of this post season.
I'm definitely still hoping for a Rangers/Phillies world series.

another brilliant performance yesterday against the yanks.. all 3 starts he's had 10+ K's O_O"

[Psubs]

another brilliant performance yesterday against the yanks.. all 3 starts he's had 10+ K's O_O"

That's a record with 13 last night, in a close game until the bullpen gave up 6 in the 9th. :razz:

Would like to see Philly beat Texas in the WS. :twisted:

[nano]

It's the beginning of the end for the yanks why didn't they have aj out of the bp last series.

[bobcat99]

Wonder if Phillies would have been better hanging onto Cliff Lee than trading for Halladay. He has got 2 more wins than Halladay in the post season and yes he has pitched one more game.

[rdtx2002]

Wonder if Phillies would have been better hanging onto Cliff Lee than trading for Halladay. He has got 2 more wins than Halladay in the post season and yes he has pitched one more game.

no.. the real question is.. what if They traded for Halladay and KEPT Cliff Lee..

So they have a rotation of Halladay, Lee and Hamels. Add in the Oswalt deal.. and it's game over

[La Fleur]

Former Jay Bengie Molina just took former Jay Burnett deep for a 3 run ball-buster and a big suck on this to all Yanks fans.:lol:

It's been real interesting to see how much of an impact the lesser-touted trade deadline deals have impacted the clubs in the playoffs. Of course Lee and Oswalt have been amazing. Berkman has finally woken up a bit. But, the little guys: aka Molina and Cody Ross, have been huge.

[dragon_drift]

AJ Burnett stunk it up AGAIN...6IP, 5ER

[Flash3]

Always love it when they intentionally walk a guy to face the next batter, then that batter hammers it out of the yard, on the first pitch no less.

[Psubs]

AJ Burnett stunk it up AGAIN...6IP, 5ER

Wooooooo, it should've been a sweep! :lol:

[vchan81]

The World Series could be the Rangers vs. the Giants... wow...

[skyblue12]

The World Series could be the Rangers vs. the Giants... wow...

would definitely be fine with that,

i wouldn't mind seeing the phillies because i want doc to win a WS, but definitely don't want to see the yanks.

tex out for 6-8 weeks, hopefully the rangers can finish them off today :twisted:

[dragon_drift]

lol a season without the yankees in the world series is a good season. i definitely like to see doc get his first ring though.

[djstiles]

Hopefully Phils can get the offence back on track tonight against the Giants. And hopefully Blanton can keep the runs against to a minimal.

Hoping the Rangers can knock out the Yanks tonight!

[biz999]

Hey, does anyone know if they are doing the Toronto Star Season Pass for 2011? Also, when abouts would they be available?

Thanks!

[Skip2MyLou]

Hey, does anyone know if they are doing the Toronto Star Season Pass for 2011? Also, when abouts would they be available?

Thanks!

usually in march, you can buy them online or over the phone.

[Psubs]

John Farrell as Manager?

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=123&p=25258948

[tighty whities]

John Farrell as Manager?

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=123&p=25258948

Always figured it would be a Red Sox coach (either Hale or Farrell) if the BJs decided not to promote from within.

Farrell (pitching coach and former pitcher) brings a different focus than Cito. He'll brings the along Red Sox philosophy of grinding out/patient ABs.

[Psubs]

Always figured it would be a Red Sox coach (either Hale or Farrell) if the BJs decided not to promote from within.

Farrell (pitching coach and former pitcher) brings a different focus than Cito. He'll brings the along Red Sox philosophy of grinding out/patient ABs.

Yankees have that approach as well as the swagger of being able to be patient.


Can you believe that Jose Bautista played since May with a sports hernia?!?!?!?!?! :-0

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/baseball/2010/10/21/15778921.html

He had successful surgery to fix it up. Maybe the hernia helped him hit homeruns? :facepalm:

[tighty whities]

Yankees have that approach as well as the swagger of being able to be patient.


Can you believe that Jose Bautista played since May with a sports hernia?!?!?!?!?! :-0

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/baseball/2010/10/21/15778921.html

He had successful surgery to fix it up. Maybe the hernia helped him hit homeruns? :facepalm:

They do, but a yankee coach isn't taking over the helm.

maybe it's what he took to avoid the surgery that helped him hit the home runs...

[Psubs]

maybe it's what he took to avoid the surgery that helped him hit the home runs...

:-0

It must be legal by MLB standards because he's stated that he got randomly tested just like everyone else. :twisted:

[mdc]

John Farrell as Manager?

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=123&p=25258948

I really hope this is true ... Farrell is the type of manager this team needs ... I hope he can bring along a staff (or keep some of the remaining staff ... Murphy, Butterfield and Walton all did great work last year) that can really push this team to the next level

Farrell is a man that has turned down interviews with several teams over the years and was highly sought after. The fact that he accepted the interview and appears ready to take the job shows that he sees real promise in this team and thinks they can win. He had been on a team that has gone through ups and downs and has managed a pitching staff in Boston filled with wacky characters with wacky personalities.

The only downside is that it is rare that a pitching coach translates in to a solid manager ... it has happened, but more often than not it doesn't work. I hope Farrell is able to make the transition because if he can, he may be the right guy at the right time.

We're entering an era where it is exciting to be a Blue Jays fan ...

[tighty whities]

:-0

It must be legal by MLB standards because he's stated that he got randomly tested just like everyone else. :twisted:

too bad testing isn't all encompassing and isn't foolproof :twisted:

[tighty whities]

I really hope this is true ... Farrell is the type of manager this team needs ... I hope he can bring along a staff (or keep some of the remaining staff ... Murphy, Butterfield and Walton all did great work last year) that can really push this team to the next level

Farrell is a man that has turned down interviews with several teams over the years and was highly sought after. The fact that he accepted the interview and appears ready to take the job shows that he sees real promise in this team and thinks they can win. He had been on a team that has gone through ups and downs and has managed a pitching staff in Boston filled with wacky characters with wacky personalities.

The only downside is that it is rare that a pitching coach translates in to a solid manager ... it has happened, but more often than not it doesn't work. I hope Farrell is able to make the transition because if he can, he may be the right guy at the right time.

We're entering an era where it is exciting to be a Blue Jays fan ...

called it! :-0 (well, thought it would be a sox coach)
I follow the Sox closely and I always felt Farrell would at least be the next in line after Francona or in line for a front office job.
I remember him turning down several ops, he can only wait so long for his turn and it looks like Francona isn't budging. Lovullo has a better baseball mind than Farrell, in respect to managing a club... so no real loss in terms of a future manager.

let's not go crazy on the whacky comment.. there's only one on the Sox staff and that's Papelbon.


If the BJs decide not to promote from within, you might see Boston's bench coach Hale (African American) at the helm for the BJs next year, to a much lesser extent, maybe even Farrell.

[nano]

In terms of coaching experience Melo world be much better. But if ferrel is in demand and he agreed to an interview that is huge. I herd butterfield is in the running as well but he seems a bit reserved I dont like him a manager. As long as the new manager doesn't change the coaches we are going to be ok.

[tighty whities]

In terms of coaching experience Melo world be much better. But if ferrel is in demand and he agreed to an interview that is huge. I herd butterfield is in the running as well but he seems a bit reserved I dont like him a manager. As long as the new manager doesn't change the coaches we are going to be ok.

Not sure who Melo is, coach in the Jays system?

I think the best choice would be Hale, the current Red Sox bench coach. But the Jays obvious want to nurture their pitching staff if they're going with Farrell.

[nano]

Not sure who Melo is, coach in the Jays system?

I think the best choice would be Hale, the current Red Sox bench coach. But the Jays obvious want to nurture their pitching staff if they're going with Farrell.

Lol the sox coach is named DeMole Hale.

[tighty whities]

Lol the sox coach is named DeMole Hale.

it's Demarlo! dude, you've been watching too much Jersey Shore :lol:

[hungryfordeals]

Wow, I haven't seen this guy since M*A*S*H left the air 27 years ago! Imagine, BJ is the BJ's new manager! :lol:

[bobcat99]

Not sure who Melo is, coach in the Jays system?

I think the best choice would be Hale, the current Red Sox bench coach. But the Jays obvious want to nurture their pitching staff if they're going with Farrell.

So would Bruce Walton stay if the SOX pitching coach becomes the manager or would he feel out better ops somewhere.

[tighty whities]

So would Bruce Walton stay if the SOX pitching coach becomes the manager or would he feel out better ops somewhere.

They'll still need a pitching coach if Farrell is chosen, Farrell won't be a full-time Manager as well as a full-time pitching coach.

Farrell definitely needs time to assess the coaching staff he's dealing with before making changes it.. that said, I can't see Walton being pushed out seeing that he's had relatively good success with this staff.

As for the bench coach, this is probably the more unstable position. With no managerial experience, Farrell will definitely need a strong one to lean on. Wouldn't be surprised if he brings his own on board sometime this year or next.

[bobcat99]

They'll still need a pitching coach if Farrell is chosen, Farrell won't be a full-time Manager as well as a full-time pitching coach.

Farrell definitely needs time to assess the coaching staff he's dealing with before making changes it.. that said, I can't see Walton being pushed out seeing that he's had relatively good success with this staff.

As for the bench coach, this is probably the more unstable position. With no managerial experience, Farrell will definitely need a strong one to lean on. Wouldn't be surprised if he brings his own on board sometime this year or next.

Oh I understand that, what I was trying to say if Brad Arnsburg was the pitching coach I won't see him coming back if the manager is a former pitching coach too. Clash of egos, how a pitcher should pitch etc.

[Flash3]

WOOT RANGERS!

Actually I don't care much about them, just as long as the damn Yankees friggin lose!

How fitting Feliz strikes out former Ranger ***** A-Roid for the final out.

[heimdal]

WOOT RANGERS!

Actually I don't care much about them, just as long as the damn Yankees friggin lose!

How fitting Feliz strikes out former Ranger ***** A-Roid for the final out.

+1, F outta here Yankees and your $200 million payroll!

[bobcat99]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2010/10/22/jays_farrell_contract/

Interesting pick, never heard of the guy until recently but whatever AA has done up to has pretty much gone right and he got the blessing of Paul Beeston too.
With the Yankees on the decline, the Rays ready to lose some players it might be the Jays time next year, can't forget about the Sox though.

[White Comet]

What a game. I'm feeling great that the Yankees didn't get in the WS. Those guys are just on fire right now. If the Philles do get in, I have a strong feeling that they will lose to the Rangers. Halladay never had great numbers against them for some reason. Don't know about the Giants as their pitching is pretty tough, but their offense is just anemic.

[tighty whities]

Oh I understand that, what I was trying to say if Brad Arnsburg was the pitching coach I won't see him coming back if the manager is a former pitching coach too. Clash of egos, how a pitcher should pitch etc.

true, I see what you are saying.. Still, Farrell won't formally wear 2 hats, no doubt though he will be heavily involved (including implementing the shoulder/throwing program the Sox use with their pitchers).

When Cito first took over as the manager, he had a hitting coach in Tenace. Same with how Kerrigan still had a pitching coach in Cumberland and Black has Balsley. Every manager has a background in one of the two disciplines. Philosophies and personalities will clash, which will determine who stays and who goes. But dedicated coaches are needed.

Even at the college level, my coaches were pretty busy. So I can't imagine how much more demanding it is at the MLB level.

I just hope Farrell doesn't start pouching Red Sox personnel.

[vchan81]

The Yankees looked really "old" this year. I think they will need to reload in the offseason. Time to add Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford :)

[bobcat99]

Sorry DOC, with the Phillies pop gun offence like that, the Jays might win the World Series before you do. Should have stayed here.

[White Comet]

Game over. Giants advance to WS vs. Rangers. That would be an exiting game to watch.

Poor Halladay, hoped that the trade would get him to taste the WS but instead goes packing...

As for the Yankees, I don't even know if they have enough money to sign Lee and Crawford.

[Flash3]

Dammit Phillies!

Pretty uninterested in the matchup now, but I guess I'll cheer for the Rangers since they knocked out the damn Yankees.

[vchan81]

I'm still trying to figure out how the Phillies lost with Halladay, Oswalt and Hamels as your starting pitchers. Kudos to the Giants though, I hope they win the whole thing.

[Spray]

God I'm excited about our new coach. He'll be the best coach we've ever had maybe. Cito was so overrated.


Manny just said today he hopes to join Farrel in Toronto as our DH. I'd KILL for him to bat in front of Bautista, a high OBP guy is something the jays lineup simply doesn't have.

[Akraz]

So.. Toronto not in the playoffs this year? They are far less games behind that most teams and are over .500avg...

I dont follow baseball so excuse the ignorance.

[NDman]

Manny just said today he hopes to join Farrel in Toronto as our DH. I'd KILL for him to bat in front of Bautista, a high OBP guy is something the jays lineup simply doesn't have.

I like his bat, but I can't imagine I (and probably many many others in TO) can put up with the circus and side show that Manny brings with him. He doesn't fit the mold of playing hard. No thanks. :)

[trellaine201]

God I'm excited about our new coach. He'll be the best coach we've ever had maybe. Cito was so overrated.


Manny just said today he hopes to join Farrel in Toronto as our DH. I'd KILL for him to bat in front of Bautista, a high OBP guy is something the jays lineup simply doesn't have.

He didn't say he hopes to join lol he said possibilities considering his relationship with Farrell. I am all for it as long as we don't give him *cough* Frank Thomas money.

[Spray]

He'd get, and deserve more. Think 2 years 20 million. There wasn't much of a circus in LA with him. LA and Toronto aren't baseball cities like Boston is.

Which is also the same reason we should have gone after Bonds, but that's a story for another day.

Until Toronto gets a legitimate 400 OBP guy, we have no chance. Sorry were not making the playoffs with 9 guys hitting 250 and trying to swing for the fence every at bat.

We can lead the league in HR's all we want. Doesn't matter if theres noone on base for them.

Kick the tires on Nick Johnson, or go for Manny.


He didn't say he hopes to join lol he said possibilities considering his relationship with Farrell. I am all for it as long as we don't give him *cough* Frank Thomas money.

[tighty whities]

He'd get, and deserve more. Think 2 years 20 million. There wasn't much of a circus in LA with him. LA and Toronto aren't baseball cities like Boston is.

Which is also the same reason we should have gone after Bonds, but that's a story for another day.

Until Toronto gets a legitimate 400 OBP guy, we have no chance. Sorry were not making the playoffs with 9 guys hitting 250 and trying to swing for the fence every at bat.

We can lead the league in HR's all we want. Doesn't matter if theres noone on base for them.

Kick the tires on Nick Johnson, or go for Manny.

Manny is a cheat, so the market is pretty wide open and there won't be much interest for him and a large contract.. easy pickings if the Jays want him.

I say the Jays go after Konerko over Ramirez (who is on the decline), if that is the direction they choose to go. Konerko also brings along gold glove calibre 1B, Manny shouldn't even be on the field anymore and the Jays already have DH (no defense) types in Lind and Snider.

I wouldn't be so sure that Farrell would be open to bringing Manny on board.

[Flash3]

Interesting to note that Bengie Molina is guaranteed a World Series ring. Splitting the season between SF and Texas, regardless of which team wins, he will get a ring. But obviously one would feel sweeter than the other. :lol:

[Shimso]

So.. Toronto not in the playoffs this year? They are far less games behind that most teams and are over .500avg...

I dont follow baseball so excuse the ignorance.

A combination of only 4 teams making the playoffs from the AL and being in what's considered the toughest division in pro sports = no playoff berth.


The second best team in the AL (Yankees) was the wildcard and lost home field advantage to Texas, which only had to compete with 3 sub500 teams to get into the playoffs....

[vchan81]

I think overall, it would be a good idea for the Jays to get Manny. It might even help their ticket sales.

[thelefteyeguy]

I think overall, it would be a good idea for the Jays to get Manny. It might even help their ticket sales.

the only thing that will help ticket sales is a winner. If Manny can help the team to get to the playoffs...the dome will be packing.

[Psubs]

Interesting to note that Bengie Molina is guaranteed a World Series ring. Splitting the season between SF and Texas, regardless of which team wins, he will get a ring. But obviously one would feel sweeter than the other. :lol:

Imagine the Giants winning and Benji slapping on a Giants uni over his Rangers one and running onto the field and celebrating!!! :lol:

[grappos13]

Imagine the Giants winning and Benji slapping on a Giants uni over his Rangers one and running onto the field and celebrating!!! :lol:

haha... i didnt realize they get a ring for playing for the team earlier in the season... interesting... this doesnt happen in other sports like NBA, NHL and NFL does it?

[Baseball_Boy]

I'm rooting for the Rangers... meh.

[Spray]

Go look at some sabermetrics with regards to Snider. You'd be surprised at his range and fielding percentage.
The jays aren't going after Konerko. He'll command too much, and had a career season at that age? good luck getting a repeat.

Manny is the way to go. I'll have to keep pumping it into your heads :P We need OBP guys to have a shot at the playoffs.


Manny is a cheat, so the market is pretty wide open and there won't be much interest for him and a large contract.. easy pickings if the Jays want him.

I say the Jays go after Konerko over Ramirez (who is on the decline), if that is the direction they choose to go. Konerko also brings along gold glove calibre 1B, Manny shouldn't even be on the field anymore and the Jays already have DH (no defense) types in Lind and Snider.

I wouldn't be so sure that Farrell would be open to bringing Manny on board.

[tighty whities]

Go look at some sabermetrics with regards to Snider. You'd be surprised at his range and fielding percentage.
The jays aren't going after Konerko. He'll command too much, and had a career season at that age? good luck getting a repeat.

Manny is the way to go. I'll have to keep pumping it into your heads :P We need OBP guys to have a shot at the playoffs.

Snider = an adventure on the field.

lol, sabermetrics might be good on certain level.. but there are weaknesses in deriving the number. It also turns many people (not saying you) who just watch the game or play softball and never played at a competitive level of baseball, into faux GMs/managers. I'll trust my experience on the field and say Snider is not a good defensive player.

I'm not basing on my opinion Konerko's performance over the past year..he brings more to the table than Manny. Thome is another OBP guy, but he isn't a cheat. Let's see Manny put up a full year of numbers when he's actually clean.

[trellaine201]

Snider = an adventure on the field.

No kidding. Yikes. I would trade him in the right deal.

[trellaine201]

Jays pick up Molina's option for next year. The end of Buck's tenor?

[nano]

Jays pick up Molina's option for next year. The end of Buck's tenor?
Yeah JP maybe the everyday catcher now

[inntents]

Jays pick up Molina's option for next year. The end of Buck's tenor?

Buck sings???:lol:

[inntents]

Wow, I haven't seen this guy since M*A*S*H left the air 27 years ago! Imagine, BJ is the BJ's new manager! :lol:

That was MIKE Farell - and he sucked:razz:. Wayne Rogers/Trapper John RULED!!

[Skip2MyLou]

No kidding. Yikes. I would trade him in the right deal.

HE IS ONLY 22!!
fielding comes with experience, at least he's not fred lewis.
with what he's done with the bat, i would sacrifice fielding for hitting.

[dragon_drift]

I hope we don't sign manny...he's getting older and injury proned. plus I hate cheats.

[Spray]

Yeah trade one of the best hitting prospects in baseball.

Good one.


No kidding. Yikes. I would trade him in the right deal.

[Psubs]

Jays pick up Molina's option for next year. The end of Buck's tenor?

If Buck leaves he'll get paid AND the Jays will get a sandwich (1st round / 2nd round) pick. :twisted:

[dragon_drift]

If Buck leaves he'll get paid AND the Jays will get a sandwich (1st round / 2nd round) pick. :twisted:

but do they ever amount to anything?

[bobcat99]

Anyone watch the WS. Other than Texas and San Fran.

45 minutes since it's been over and no comments here.

One of the worst WS in a while.

[Jimboski]

Anyone watch the WS. Other than Texas and San Fran.

45 minutes since it's been over and no comments here.

One of the worst WS in a while.

San Francisco wins!

[Psubs]

Does Edgar get into the HOF?

[Maxman]

Anyone watch the WS. Other than Texas and San Fran.

45 minutes since it's been over and no comments here.

One of the worst WS in a while.


Gotta agree with that. Texas was extremely disappointing. The big bashers disappeared, and their aggressive baserunning was neutralized by lack of baserunners. I think what was most disappointing was the way games 1 and 2 went from close, late inning games to blow-outs - I found it really took the tension/anticipation out of the series. And last night, I don't think I've ever seen so many players go up and swing at the first two pitches and go 0-2. It seemed that the Rangers batters had no clue what was coming, or couldn't recognize any of Lincecum's pitches. They showed no patience in the entire series.

It will be interesting to see if Texas can afford to keep Hamilton, Young, Andrus, and continue to add enough talent to compete.

[vchan81]

To be honest, I'm kinda glad that the World Series is over. I'm definitely more interested for the off season. Some pretty good free agents available this year.

[162]

Yes the WS was disappointing. San Francisco pitching was that good or Texas bats were that bad. The Texas hitters looked awful at the plate, taking half-swings; swinging at balls way out of the strike zone. Guerrero for one was just awful.

[Maxman]

Yes the WS was disappointing. San Francisco pitching was that good or Texas bats were that bad. The Texas hitters looked awful at the plate, taking half-swings; swinging at balls way out of the strike zone. Guerrero for one was just awful.


Could you imagine the "swing from your heels Blue Jays" hitting against SF's pitchers in that series. It looked like Hamilton, Vladdy, Young and Cruz were swinging at every pitch they saw - fast or slow, in or out of the strike zone - kinda like the Jays did this year.

I hate the Yanks, but if they had been there, I think their plate discipline would have made the series more interesting!

[Psubs]

I wonder if the Jays pitchers can emerge like the Giants pitchers next year. Just need a closer. :o

Man, I remember making fun of Audry Huff and she has a ring. :facepalm:

[heimdal]

Jays just acquired Miguel Olivo from the Rockies for cash considerations or player to be named later. Then, AA declined his option, making him a FA.

At first i was stumped at this move, then I realized that AA did it to get a compensatory draft pick. Pretty savvy dealing.

[MrWizard]

So glad Gregg is gone, savvy move by AA trading for Olivo to get his compensatory draft pick.

[Psubs]

See, sandwich picks aren't that bad. Save money and get a pick. Use that money to help sign Cliff Lee. :) :twisted:

[tighty whities]

Jays just acquired Miguel Olivo from the Rockies for cash considerations or player to be named later. Then, AA declined his option, making him a FA.

At first i was stumped at this move, then I realized that AA did it to get a compensatory draft pick. Pretty savvy dealing.


they've still got to offer him arbitration, then he has to decline and sign with another team to make this happen. Nothing savvy really, teams do it all the time.. sox did it with around 8 games left the in the regular season (F. Lopez).

[La Fleur]

Good on the Jays though . . . I got scared they were gonna keep Olivo. They gotta get JP in a lot of games next year. And Molina fills his duty as veteran role player/ producer of insane pitching gems by Brandon Morrow. I think Olivo will end up being 2nd-string back-up catcher for a team with lots of money to spare, like NY or Boston. Colo wants to go after V-Mart. I guess they don't care much about D. Besides, V-Mart could mash quite a few taters in Mile High and he also has 1B elgibility which is good since Helton sucked the big one this year and Giambi is an avg. backup at best, even with all his power.

[NDman]

Good to see Neyer's giving some props to AA

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/6211/toronto-buys-a-draft-pick

[nano]

this is going to be a very interesting off season.

[Skip2MyLou]

the mlb awards will be announced this week and next week.
Let's see how many bluejays get awards.
Still hoping bautista can get that mvp! :D

[Skip2MyLou]

BLUE JAYS have awarded 3B Edwin Encarnacion to the Oakland A's on a waiver claim & outrighted LHP Brian Tallet & OF Dewayne Wise to AAA.

glad to see someone claimed edwin AND tallet is gone.
But i was a fan of Wise, he seemed like a hard worker and shined when he got the chance to play this season, we could've kept him as a 4th fielder / lead off man on the bench.

[trellaine201]

I say Who's on first, What's on second, I Don't Know's on third.?- Abbott :)

[La Fleur]

BLUE JAYS have awarded 3B Edwin Encarnacion to the Oakland A's on a waiver claim & outrighted LHP Brian Tallet & OF Dewayne Wise to AAA.

glad to see someone claimed edwin AND tallet is gone.
But i was a fan of Wise, he seemed like a hard worker and shined when he got the chance to play this season, we could've kept him as a 4th fielder / lead off man on the bench.

Hahah . . . not much of an award for Oakland. Then again, they are in dire need of some HR's and EncarnaSHOWN has the power to pop 20 or more out if he stays healthy or doesn't get demoted to AAA . . . at least they have a better than avg. backstop for Kouzmanoff offensively and most of Oakland's team is good on D, so I'm sure they'll put up with the multitude of errors at third. A's really trying to make a case for being a playoff team next year though . . . could be interesting in the AL West. Hopefully Crawford becomes an Angel, or at worst, a Tiger.

[Spray]

Good riddance EE.

[dragon_drift]

haha not gonna miss error encarnacion.

[trellaine201]

Dan Uggla anyone?

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/marlins-dan-uggla-may-be-on-trade-block

I know i know always tonnes of rumors but I really hope Jays are aggressive. Looking at Uggla he seems like a keeper.

[Ogata]

Dan Uggla anyone?

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/marlins-dan-uggla-may-be-on-trade-block

I know i know always tonnes of rumors but I really hope Jays are aggressive. Looking at Uggla he seems like a keeper.

I believe they are looking at a 60 Million Payroll next year. I don't think we can afford him but he might prove to be a good 3B.

[trellaine201]

Ken Rosenthal says the Jays are front runners for Uggla. If he doesn't work out the deal with the Marlins. Wow.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/jays-the-favorite-for-uggla-rox-priced-out.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Flash3]

Would Aaron Hill then move back to 3B to replace E5? I wouldn't mind that actually.

[trellaine201]

Would Aaron Hill then move back to 3B to replace E5? I wouldn't mind that actually.

They mentioned Uggla could move to 3B but I think the Marlins asked him before and he really preferred 2B so perhaps Hill moves to 3B which he has said he would do. *shrug*

[nano]

Would Aaron Hill then move back to 3B to replace E5? I wouldn't mind that actually.
Jose will be at third he didn't play much third because he was injured in May.

[tighty whities]

If the Jays were smart, they would move him to LF..

a couple of my teammates played against him in college, they said he was a sieve then and he's a sieve now

[Skip2MyLou]

the rumor is that its JP Arencibia for Uggla.

I dont like this deal because JP showed what he's capable of doing with the bat and it's pretty monstrous.
I'd rather have a young catcher for the long run, than a guy that hasn't proven if he can play 3rd. If we were already a winning team then yes, he would be a great addition. But right now while we're still developing our players i'd rather have JP.

[La Fleur]

Uggla at 2b over Hill's great glove work would suck. If he went to 3rd at least Jays could justify saying his bat trumped E5's . . . maybe put him at first or if he's fine with it, have him DH? He'd probably do no worse than Lind at first defensively and offensively Uggla should be one of the more consistent hitters, not to mention his power at the Dome would be great.

That being said, I also agree giving up Arencibia would be big punch to the sack. After such an exciting debut, it would be pretty crappy to see him go and never know his true potential. If the Jays could somehow swing John Buck, maybe one of their developing young pitchers in the minors, some prospects and something else, that'd be fine. But, you dont often find a catcher of Arencibia's quality very often. Not many Posada's and Mauer's out there.

[skyblue12]

definitely would be disappointed to see that trade.. we all know how hard it is for good-hitting catchers to come by.

[tighty whities]

Halladay wins CY Young award..

[dragon_drift]

Halladay wins CY Young award..

haha yeah congrats doc! =) hope he gets the other "prize'' next year

[NDman]

Quite an entrance Doc made to the NL. A perfect game, a playoff no-no, and now a unanimous Cy Young! Too bad he didn't get the ring!

And on the Uggla front, we might not have to worry about trading JP for him. Uggla might be heading to the Braves

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5814146

[tighty whities]

And on the Uggla front, we might not have to worry about trading JP for him. Uggla might be heading to the Braves

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5814146

and Buck is close to signing on for 3 years with the Marlins.

[Spray]

Marlins have made three horrible, horrible moves in the last 2 days.

God.

[trellaine201]

Marlins have made three horrible, horrible moves in the last 2 days.

God.

I would be to differ. They needed some relievers. They had blown lots of leads last year. Less power now but pitching should be improved. Only time will tell.

[Spray]

You think buck is worth three years at almost 20 million? Or Infante and a horrible reliever for Uggla?

Florida's been fleeced twice today.


I would be to differ. They needed some relievers. They had blown lots of leads last year. Less power now but pitching should be improved. Only time will tell.

[La Fleur]

Wow, Marlins got robbed so bad. Not only that, Uggla stays in the same division and to an already strong team. This pretty much cements Florida out of playoff contention. They are getting an upgrade defensively, but offensively Uggla's not only got better power numbers, but also hits as good for average or better and more consistently. I suppose the Marlins think they can rely on guys like Stanton and Han Ram to give them lots of HRs. Wonder what deal the Jays gave them that they turned down. I'm sure any of the Jays relievers would have been a better deal for Florida.

[dragon_drift]

that doesn't make sense at all. instead of letting jp play, the jays let buck boost his stats just so he can get a raise from another team.

[tighty whities]

that doesn't make sense at all. instead of letting jp play, the jays let buck boost his stats just so he can get a raise from another team.

I'm leaning more towards the playing time was to allow Buck to boost his stats so he could at least be categorized as a type B free agent --> netting the BJs a compensation pick.

The Marlins did get fleeced in the trade, but they had to get rid of him as he obviously wasn't going to re-sign. Who knows, maybe teams weren't willing to offer a good package for him.. as he's going to test free agency after the 2011 season.

But I agree somewhat with Trellaine.. the Marlins had to take with what they were given and it makes sense financially for the Marlins, it's not like they traded a low cost player, who they had control of for the next few years. Uggla is in the final year of arbitration (with the $ still not set), so he'll at least make over ~$8mln, double what Infante and Dunn are set to make. Marlins get a young strike out pitcher in Dunn and Infante gives them more flexibility.

[dragon_drift]

I'm leaning more towards the playing time was to allow Buck to boost his stats so he could at least be categorized as a type B free agent --> netting the BJs a compensation pick.

The Marlins did get fleeced in the trade, but they had to get rid of him as he obviously wasn't going to re-sign. Who knows, maybe teams weren't willing to offer a good package for him.. as he's going to test free agency after the 2011 season.

But I agree somewhat with Trellaine.. the Marlins had to take with what they were given and it makes sense financially for the Marlins, it's not like they traded a low cost player, who they had control of for the next few years. Uggla is in the final year of arbitration (with the $ still not set), so he'll at least make over ~$8mln, double what Infante and Dunn are set to make. Marlins get a young strike out pitcher in Dunn and Infante gives them more flexibility.

oh I see. still trying to understand how this draft thing works for baseball haha.

[Flash3]

Congrats Doc on the Cy Young! Well deserved!

[Spray]

In a somewhat surprising move, Jays release Shawn Hill.

Hrm.

[Skip2MyLou]

In a somewhat surprising move, Jays release Shawn Hill.

Hrm.

wow are you serious?
he was one of the front runners to nab that 5th spot in the rotation for next year.
jesus christ, not to mention he is from sauga too.

he was impressive in his 4 starts last season with the blue jays.
Why would they release him? at least keep him in the minors incase someone in the rotation gets injured..

[Skip2MyLou]

2011 TORONTO STAR SEASON PASS
on sale now!
$95 ($99 w/ fees) for 80 GAMES!!

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/tor/ticketing/season_pass.jsp

[Spray]

Rzep is absolutely molesting the AFL right now, and he had it seemingly figured out the last 5 or so starts he made in the MLB.

I guess it's more or less a forgone conclusion that they'll give Rzep the nod for the 5th spot if he keeps this up. He's got electric stuff.


wow are you serious?
he was one of the front runners to nab that 5th spot in the rotation for next year.
jesus christ, not to mention he is from sauga too.

he was impressive in his 4 starts last season with the blue jays.
Why would they release him? at least keep him in the minors incase someone in the rotation gets injured..

[Spray]

Jays about to land a legitimate leadoff man, and one of baseballs top base stealers in Rajai Davis

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/5010162771304449

Love it.

[trellaine201]

He is an OF hmmm so we have Snyder/Wells/Bautista/Davis? Who am I missing. Will he platoon with Snider? Looking at Davis he seems to be a full time player. I don't think they want Snider playing part time thus maybe he will be on the move?

[Spray]

We also have Fred Lewis I think.

At this point it would be along the lines of:

Wells CF, Rajai Davis LF, Snider RF, Bautista 3B, Lind 1B/DH, means we still need a 1B/DH




He is an OF hmmm so we have Snyder/Wells/Bautista/Davis? Who am I missing. Will he platoon with Snider? Looking at Davis he seems to be a full time player. I don't think they want Snider playing part time thus maybe he will be on the move?

[trellaine201]

We also have Fred Davis I think.

At this point it would be along the lines of:

Wells CF, Rajai Davis LF, Snider RF, Bautista 3B, Lind 1B/DH, means we still need a 1B/DH

Not that my opinion matters but I don't like Lind at 1B. DH or trade him? I thought Freddy was a FA? He also thinks he can play everyday so I don't think he will be back. And I always though OF positions were power hitters? Rajai certainly is not that.

[Spray]

Uh........no all outfielders are not power hitters rofl.
Rajai Davis is one of the top 3 base stealers in baseball. He's a menace on the basepaths, and he's exactly what we needed. A sparkplug to pick the team up.
Depending on what we can get in FA, Lind will probably play 1B. If we get Manny he'll be 1B, if we get Nick Johnson he'll probably platoon with him at 1B.

This an incredibly smart, forward thinking signing.



Not that my opinion matters but I don't like Lind at 1B. DH or trade him? I thought Freddy was a FA? He also thinks he can play everyday so I don't think he will be back. And I always though OF positions were power hitters? Rajai certainly is not that.

[ItechJester]

that doesn't make sense at all. instead of letting jp play, the jays let buck boost his stats just so he can get a raise from another team.

Congrats to John Buck!!!!

I am happy for the guy.

[trellaine201]

Whose catching this year ? If Olivo declines arbritration as he probably will. I don't think JP can be a number one catcher quite yet.

[Spray]

Olivo is a FA already I think, and the Jays are going after him.


Whose catching this year ? If Olivo declines arbritration as he probably will. I don't think JP can be a number one catcher quite yet.

[trellaine201]

Olivo is a FA already I think, and the Jays are going after him.

No he isn't :) but he can be if he declines arbitration. The thinking is...he will decline to become a FA.

[Spray]

Yes, he is.

http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/olivo_drawing_interest_from_rangers_white_sox_and_ blue_jays/3629087

They declined his contract iirc, making him effectively a free agent.


No he isn't :) but he can be if he declines arbitration. The thinking is...he will decline to become a FA.

[Psubs]

oh I see. still trying to understand how this draft thing works for baseball haha.

Since there's no cap, this is a good measure to compensate the teams that have good players taken away via FA, to lessen the Yankee effect.

[Psubs]

Jays about to land a legitimate leadoff man, and one of baseballs top base stealers in Rajai Davis

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/5010162771304449

Love it.

:twisted:

Maybe they send back Snider or Lind?

Just read that it's for a pair of prospects. Could've sent Shawn Hill instead of releasing him, no?!?!? :facepalm:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/mlb/bluejays/article/892545--jays-add-speedster-rajai-davis-from-a-s


Headed to the A’s are Double-A right-handers Trystan Magnuson of Vancouver and Daniel Farquhar.

CF - Wells, Davis
RF - Bautista, Snider
LF - Davis, Snider
1B - Lind, Arencibia
2B - Hill
SS - Escobar
3B , Bautista
C - Molina?, Arencibia
DH - Snider, Arencibia

[Skip2MyLou]

Rajai Davis!
50 stolen bases here we come!

[grappos13]

Jays about to land a legitimate leadoff man, and one of baseballs top base stealers in Rajai Davis

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/5010162771304449

Love it.

not bad at all.. 2 minor leagues.. yahoo says its confirmed..

a guy who can lead off, hit 300 and steal 50+ bases in a full season, damn thats great.. something we have basically never had in ages!

[Spray]

Just feel like we need one more high OBP hitter with some pop and were good to go.

Give me one of...

Beltre/Nick Johnson/Manny Ramirez please

[tighty whities]

No he isn't :) but he can be if he declines arbitration. The thinking is...he will decline to become a FA.


+1

In that he must decline arbitration (if the BJs offered) in order to become a FA. Of course the BJs might choose not to offer arbitration (I believe the deadline is Nov 23), in that scenario, he becomes a FA and the Jays do not receive a compensatory pick.

Olivo (http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101105&content_id=16009358&vkey=news_tor&c_id=tor)

"The Blue Jays declined the club options included in Gregg's contract and also declined an option for 2011 within Olivo's deal. Both players are eligible for free agency with Type B classification, meaning they are each worth one supplemental pick between the first and second rounds in the 2011 First-Year Player Draft if they decline arbitration and sign with a new team. "

[nano]

Jose is definitely on third now

[skyblue12]

love the davis trade. i'm not going to lie, pretty excited that the jays finally get a legit lead-off man LOL.

[Psubs]

+1

In that he must decline arbitration (if the BJs offered) in order to become a FA. Of course the BJs might choose not to offer arbitration (I believe the deadline is Nov 23), in that scenario, he becomes a FA and the Jays do not receive a compensatory pick.

Olivo (http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101105&content_id=16009358&vkey=news_tor&c_id=tor)

"The Blue Jays declined the club options included in Gregg's contract and also declined an option for 2011 within Olivo's deal. Both players are eligible for free agency with Type B classification, meaning they are each worth one supplemental pick between the first and second rounds in the 2011 First-Year Player Draft if they decline arbitration and sign with a new team. "

What does a Type A fetch? Just rank higher in the sandwich or is it 2 picks?

[tighty whities]

Uh........ Rajai Davis is one of the top 3 base stealers in baseball. He's a menace on the basepaths, and he's exactly what we needed. A sparkplug to pick the team up.

Ellsbury is ahead of him as well

[tighty whities]

What does a Type A fetch? Just rank higher in the sandwich or is it 2 picks?

Basically, if a team that finished in the bottom half of the standings eg. Baltimore (i.e. has a top 15 pick) signs a type A, their 1st round pick is protected. The team that lost the FA would receive Baltimore's 2nd round pick as well as a sandwich pick (between round 1 and 2).

If a team finished in the top half of the standings e.g. NY, etc (i.e. has a bottom 15 pick) signs a type A... the Yankees would straight out lose their 1st round pick (and only this pick)

If the Sox sign two Type A FAs... say Downs and Crawford (Crawford is ranked higher as a Type A), the Rays would get the Sox' 1st rounder, while the Jays would get the 2nd round pick.

[danman227460]

I'm kinda surprised that the Jays didn't try to land Uggla. From what Atlanta gave the Marlins, I am sure the Jays had more than enough talent to get Uggla. I wonder if we had kept Buck under contract, could he have been part of a deal for Uggla.

[Psubs]

Basically, if a team that finished in the bottom half of the standings eg. Baltimore (i.e. has a top 15 pick) signs a type A, their 1st round pick is protected. The team that lost the FA would receive Baltimore's 2nd round pick as well as a sandwich pick (between round 1 and 2).

If a team finished in the top half of the standings e.g. NY, etc (i.e. has a bottom 15 pick) signs a type A... the Yankees would straight out lose their 1st round pick (and only this pick)

If the Sox sign two Type A FAs... say Downs and Crawford (Crawford is ranked higher as a Type A), the Rays would get the Sox' 1st rounder, while the Jays would get the 2nd round pick.

Whoa, thanks for the 411. Now I know and knowing is half the battle. GO JAYS!!!

[Spray]

Jays rumored to be in the mix for Vmart. Makes a lot of sense actually. We need the extra lefty bat, can platoon/mentor Arencibia, and can rotate at 1B with Lind and DH.

Would be a massive addition for our club if we can make that work.

[tighty whities]

Jays rumored to be in the mix for Vmart. Makes a lot of sense actually. We need the extra lefty bat, can platoon/mentor Arencibia, and can rotate at 1B with Lind and DH.

Would be a massive addition for our club if we can make that work.

mentor and Vmart should not be mentioned in the same sentence

[Spray]

Silly thing to say.

Apparently jays are going "hard" after Justin Upton right now. We're looking very aggressive this offseason.


mentor and Vmart should not be mentioned in the same sentence

[tighty whities]

Silly thing to say.

Apparently jays are going "hard" after Justin Upton right now. We're looking very aggressive this offseason.

Just being honest.. Vmart is a great hitter, that just happens to catch (and I use that word loosely as he's not even in the top half of catchers, in terms of receiver skills, in the MLB). Horrible PTs for a catcher. Equivalent of George Bell trying to mentor on how to play the outfield.

[trellaine201]

What bout Upton? Seems like a very good pickup BUT wouldn't this clean our minor league system to obtain? Upton is ONLY 23. I think these are crazy rumors again just like the Uggla ones saying we were favored to get him. Fun, none the less.

[joeyjoejoe]

What bout Upton? Seems like a very good pickup BUT wouldn't this clean our minor league system to obtain? Upton is ONLY 23. I think these are crazy rumors again just like the Uggla ones saying we were favored to get him. Fun, none the less.

Seriously... is Upton worth 4-5 top prospects?

[Spray]

A couple top prospects and a couple lesser maybe.

We'd be looking at giving up a Drabek + 3 for him probably.

Is he worth it? In short yes. He's a 5 tool player which would add more stability to our lineup.


Seriously... is Upton worth 4-5 top prospects?

[trellaine201]

Seriously... is Upton worth 4-5 top prospects?

No but I think he will fetch quite abit. He is only 23. Not sure of his salary for the next few yrs etc or why AZ is letting him go other than financial reasons? He has good speed as well and would take care of right field. I will wait to see if this actually goes thru as many teams are interested.

[Spray]

He's under arbitration for three more years I think.
Obviously not financial, that teams a disaster and they need to rebuild with prospects. They're not making a run anytime soon.


No but I think he will fetch quite abit. He is only 23. Not sure of his salary for the next few yrs etc or why AZ is letting him go other than financial reasons? He has good speed as well and would take care of right field. I will wait to see if this actually goes thru as many teams are interested.

[tighty whities]

AZ bought out his arbitration years.. he's signed for 5 years (~$50million), beginning in 2011.

[Spray]

Yeah you're right, weird, Rotoworld hasn't updated his contract yet.


AZ bought out his arbitration years.. he's signed for 5 years (~$50million), beginning in 2011.

[trellaine201]

Wow Ozzie Guillen was almost traded to the Marlins for a player lol but Marlins didn't want to give up that specific player lol...I guess you can trade a coach/manager. :lol::lol: The player was Logan Morrison from the marlins.

[tighty whities]

Wow Ozzie Guillen was almost traded to the Marlins for a player lol but Marlins didn't want to give up that specific player lol...I guess you can trade a coach/manager. :lol::lol: The player was Logan Morrison from the marlins.

I think that was just someone being funny.. there was also some joker who said Stanton for Guillen

[trellaine201]

I think that was just someone being funny.. there was also some joker who said Stanton for Guillen

Hmmm well it was just reported once again on MLB channel. *shrug* seems legit to me,

[Skip2MyLou]

I would go insane with joy and mark the **** out. If the Jays got Justin Upton.
As long as it's not Drabek that goes in the deal.
We would be getting a huge ****ing steal, a 23 year old allstar stud, to play on the Jays for 5 years.
The upside of this guy is unbelievable.

I really hope AA pulls this off.

[Spray]

It would obviously be Drabek as the center piece, maybe Arencibia as well and another prospect.
Or maybe Snider/Lind as a piece.


I would go insane with joy and mark the **** out. If the Jays got Justin Upton.
As long as it's not Drabek that goes in the deal.
We would be getting a huge ****ing steal, a 23 year old allstar stud, to play on the Jays for 5 years.
The upside of this guy is unbelievable.

I really hope AA pulls this off.

[danman227460]

+1. All the reports are saying that Arizona wants to "win" the trade and will be asking for a King's ransom for Upton. Not too many teams are willing to do that and I hope AA doesn't fold and jeopardize all he has worked for just to grab him. I would wait for a bit to see who else is bidding but if Arizona keeps up it's asking price, no team will bite.


It would obviously be Drabek as the center piece, maybe Arencibia as well and another prospect.
Or maybe Snider/Lind as a piece.

[Psubs]

+1. All the reports are saying that Arizona wants to "win" the trade and will be asking for a King's ransom for Upton. Not too many teams are willing to do that and I hope AA doesn't fold and jeopardize all he has worked for just to grab him. I would wait for a bit to see who else is bidding but if Arizona keeps up it's asking price, no team will bite.

He strikes out a lot and doesn't walk that much yet. :facepalm: I guess that he's great defensively and his power will develop. Get 20-30 steals. Moves Bautista to 3B.

1. Davis
2. Escobar
3. Wells
4. Baustista
5. Upton

Trade Rzepcinsky, Arencibia, Snider and other minor leaguers?

[Madchester]

I think that was just someone being funny.. there was also some joker who said Stanton for Guillen

There have been manager-player trades in the past. Lou Pinella was the most recent example.

[heimdal]

I wouldn't mind sending Rzcep (heard he's dominating winter ball, perfect time to sell high), Snider (expendable due to the logjam at OF, just wish he showed more potential last year to show AZ) and Arencibia (with D'Arnaud waiting in the wings) and some other starter...maybe Brad Mills. It's highly unlikely they'll settle without Drabek though.

[Spray]

No, if we dealt Snider it would be like Snider + 1-2 mid tier prospect. That trade you proposed is trade rape on our end.
People keep forgetting Snider is only 22, and was rated the top power prospect in baseball. Without cito meddling he's going to be a great player for years to come. The uninformed see him as a burly outfielder, when he's a decent fielder and has plus speed.

Upton has decent power already. I don't think jays will deal Rzep either, I'd rather lose Drabek than Rzep. Rzep with his new pitch is finally turning the curve it looks like. I know it's only the AFL, but check his fall league stats.

Anyways theres no way were giving up Snider AND that boatload of players. People who actually follow baseball know what a good prospect Snider is.


He strikes out a lot and doesn't walk that much yet. :facepalm: I guess that he's great defensively and his power will develop. Get 20-30 steals. Moves Bautista to 3B.

1. Davis
2. Escobar
3. Wells
4. Baustista
5. Upton

Trade Rzepcinsky, Arencibia, Snider and other minor leaguers?

[tighty whities]

There have been manager-player trades in the past. Lou Pinella was the most recent example.

I know that.. but look at the proposed trade: Stanton, one of the bets prospects in the game for Guillen

[heimdal]

I don't think Snider + 2mid tier Prospects will make Arizona feel they're 'winning the trade'

But if That's all it takes, that's good for us.

[tighty whities]

No, if we dealt Snider it would be like Snider + 1-2 mid tier prospect. That trade you proposed is trade rape on our end.
People keep forgetting Snider is only 22, and was rated the top power prospect in baseball. Without cito meddling he's going to be a great player for years to come. The uninformed see him as a burly outfielder, when he's a decent fielder and has plus speed.

Upton has decent power already. I don't think jays will deal Rzep either, I'd rather lose Drabek than Rzep. Rzep with his new pitch is finally turning the curve it looks like. I know it's only the AFL, but check his fall league stats.

Anyways theres no way were giving up Snider AND that boatload of players. People who actually follow baseball know what a good prospect Snider is.

I agree that any team that gets Upton will be raped, as Towers has repeatedly said that he has to win the deal (not saying that JP, Rzep, Sniderwould be the ones to go). But if the Jays don't like it, there are reports that at least a dozen other teams are in the mix... with Towers looking from the Sox: Ellsbury and Baird to start and a couple top prospects, then they Jays can take their ball and go home :)

Towers is sitting pretty and if he's looking for major league ready players along with top prospects like he wants from the Sox, Drabek and Snider (or JP) would be a starting point, imo.

[La Fleur]

Man, that could be a make or break it for AA's legacy.

Yes, Upton has a ton of upside. He's got one hell of a swing. Great range and speed. But, upside to me is just an over-used term that GM's/media like to use to justify going all in on one player. If Upton becomes like his brother - both in attitude and skill - Jays would be F'd beyond all belief, especially if they give up multiple talents like Snider, Arencibia, Drabek. Only a big bankroll team like NY or Boston can get away with trading all their prospects as they have a much better chance of being able to take the hit of a bad deal if things go south. Look at what A-Rod did to Texas, damn near bankrupted them, and although his upside was fulfilled and he became the All-Star people expected him to be, he ended up doing nothing for that team, aside from padding his stats.

I think all these rumours are just AA's way of staying aggressive, maybe forcing his competitors to raise the stakes on their deals. I like his approach and he's forcing lots of other solid clubs to make more difficult decisions, regardless of if the Jays are serious about a certain player or have the coin to do so. I think in the case of Uggla, we could've landed him and I'm still scratching my head as to why the Braves fleeced Florida and why the Jays didn't, but I think AA staying the course is the best way so far.

Pitching trumps all in my opinion. Even nourishing a player like Drabek or Mills for a year or 2 to show that they are major league ready could pay off more dividends in a future trade then now when they are just prospects and not guaranteed to make an immediate roster impact.

Arencibia has not had a chance to shine and I think Snider is stull a fantasy beast in the making. I think Snider will break out now that Cito is gone.

Thumbs up for trying to get Uggla (he'd be a great fit, but who knows what happened there), big thumbs up for finally getting a true base stealing, hit for avg. guy in Davis, now just focus on getting a true closer, figuring out first/third.

[La Fleur]

Also, if Jays were to go all in for someone, I'd say go for Soriano. Stud of a reliever and still fairly young. A shame that Tampa is loaded with pitching, so I don't see Jays getting him. They could probably get Jenks from Chi Town though.

Imagine Soriano as closer, with Downs/Purcey as set-up men.:twisted:

DO NOT GET MANNY!

That's a Raul Mondesi signing in the making. Or worse, Frank Thomas. Manny's a character, no doubt, but hopefully AA realizes his best days are over. No need for ailing Hammy Ramirez being on the bench with his sore legs.

I'm not even sure V-Mart is a good signing. His D would be no better than Arencibia and Arencibia has the potential to be as offensively potent. If V-Mart played first, I'd be down for that possibly. Still not ideal IMO.

[trellaine201]

Also, if Jays were to go all in for someone, I'd say go for Soriano. Stud of a reliever and still fairly young. A shame that Tampa is loaded with pitching, so I don't see Jays getting him. They could probably get Jenks from Chi Town though.

Imagine Soriano as closer, with Downs/Purcey as set-up men.:twisted:

DO NOT GET MANNY!

That's a Raul Mondesi signing in the making. Or worse, Frank Thomas. Manny's a character, no doubt, but hopefully AA realizes his best days are over. No need for ailing Hammy Ramirez being on the bench with his sore legs.

I'm not even sure V-Mart is a good signing. His D would be no better than Arencibia and Arencibia has the potential to be as offensively potent. If V-Mart played first, I'd be down for that possibly. Still not ideal IMO.

Hell I say jump all in for Soria/Greinke :) Great closer!! Young. Greinke a very good pitcher-young!

[Psubs]

Hell I say jump all in for Soria/Greinke :) Great closer!! Young. Greinke a very good pitcher-young!

Trade for both and win a 'ship! :razz:

Greinke, has social anxiety, so being in Toronto, he'd be anonymous. :razz:

Greinke
Romero
Marcum
Morrow
Cecil
:-0

Rzepcinski, Drabek, Mills and Lind for Greinke and Soria?

[La Fleur]

Hell I say jump all in for Soria/Greinke :) Great closer!! Young. Greinke a very good pitcher-young!

Oh yea, I forgot about Greinke. I'd go for him too. Jays already proved they could own AL East hitters with their pitchers (Cecil mainly), this would be the key to their playoffs. KC badly needs some quality arms in their bullpen - I'd give them Jason Frasor, who's better than all of their relief staff minus Soria (also an amazing, young closer) plus some pitching prospects (some combo of Mills, Ryzep, whoever else) and maybe some type of hitter (Fred Lewis?/prospects) for Greinke. Greinke said he doesn't want to play in the spotlight and coming to TO would mean he'd probably get less media attention that a third string Leafs goalie, so it'd be perfect fit for him. Do it AA!

[trellaine201]

Trade for both and win a 'ship! :razz:

Greinke, has social anxiety, so being in Toronto, he'd be anonymous. :razz:

Greinke
Romero
Marcum
Morrow
Cecil
:-0

Rzepcinski, Drabek, Mills and Lind for Greinke and Soria?


Haha not sure what it would take to pry both of those guys. I did hear one journalist suggest that KC might as well trade Soria as well. They figured he really isn't in KC longer term plans. So many rumors etc. I am waiting patiently for the Jays to get a top player via trade or FA.

[La Fleur]

Another solid arm to add to the mix: De La Rose from Colo. A strong, young lefty arm is never a bad thing, although the Jays are already blessed in that department. Not sure what we could give Colo though. They have a decent 'pen, maybe some young starters in the minors? They are pretty much a non-playoff team unless they can sign on some veteran arms - they have no one outside of Ubaldo, CarGo and Tulo and Street.

Jays trade Drabek, Fred Lewis, and cash considerations for De La Rosa and Giambi :lol:

[djstiles]

Jays trade Drabek, Fred Lewis, and cash considerations for De La Rosa and Giambi :lol:

lol, you wouldn't take Manny but you would take the Hamburgler in Giambi?!?!

[La Fleur]

lol, you wouldn't take Manny but you would take the Hamburgler in Giambi?!?!

Haha, I was joking. That's a trade only PSubs would do.

Giambi is washed up. At least Manny would get out more fans. Don't want neither.

[djstiles]

Haha, I was joking. That's a trade only PSubs would do.
Giambi is washed up. At least Manny would get out more fans. Don't want neither.

Hahah thats true. I agree Manny would bring a lot of fans to the ballpark but a lot of baggage as well.

[alifromca]

Hahah thats true. I agree Manny would bring a lot of fans to the ballpark but a lot of baggage as well.

Really? If they sign Manny, I think I'd actually go to fewer games.

[gei]

you're probably the only one

[joeyjoejoe]

A bit off topic, but... Congrats Joey Votto! NL MVP! Another Canadian MLB MVP... but this wasn't born out west for once (like Mourneau and Walker).

[mdc]

A bit off topic, but... Congrats Joey Votto! NL MVP! Another Canadian MLB MVP... but this wasn't born out west for once (like Mourneau and Walker).

+1

With the troubles he went through the year before and the dominant season he had this year, the guy showed a ton of character ... he is the type of player I want on my team. It seems like he is a really good guy with a ton of class and the talent to carry a team. In an age of jerks and a-holes, Votto proves that you don't have to be a ***** to be the best

Gratz Joey ... you deserve it!

[La Fleur]

Really? If they sign Manny, I think I'd actually go to fewer games.

I'd go and heckle him in RF, just like when he was back in Beantown. I'm sure lots of other Jays fans would too.

[tighty whities]

I'd go and heckle him in RF, just like when he was back in Beantown. I'm sure lots of other Jays fans would too.


lol.

You must be color blind... hope you realize that you were either heckling Nixon or Drew and there's no way the Jays play him in RF unless something went terribly wrong.

[Skip2MyLou]

Can someone explain something to me.
How does Joey Votto win the MVP award but not Silver Slugger for the best offensive player?
Are they saying..that Votto's that much more valuable to his team than Pujols and that he didn't deserve the MVP but only the Silver Slugger? I find that hard to believe, because both their defense at 1st is great hard to say who's better. So they are saying Votto is more valuable to his team but not a better offensive player than Pujols?

Joey Votto: .324 / 37 HRs / 113 RBIs
Albert Pujols: .312 / 42HRs / 118 RBIs

I am ecstatic that Joey Votto won MVP, I picked him to win for sure. Especially since he's from Canada and he shows a ton of class in his interviews.
But seriously, how does he not get the Silver Slugger award and gets the MVP, does not make sense.

[Skip2MyLou]

AND Jose Bautista better win MVP tomorrow.
Or I will be pissed.

BAUTISTA OR RIOT!

[wszeto28]

AND Jose Bautista better win MVP tomorrow.
Or I will be pissed.

BAUTISTA OR RIOT!
Man it'd be awesome is Bautista won but I think it's pretty much a given that Hamilton will win :(

[nx6288]

Looks like Hamilton won :(

[wszeto28]

Looks like Hamilton won :(
Aw man, Bautista didn't even finish in top 3

[joeyjoejoe]

At least he got one first place vote. Hamilton was the sexy pick... feel good come back story + playoff team... and I guess crazy good stats to go with it.

[NDman]

Plus Bautista is named on every single ballot (along with Hamilton, Cabrera and Cano). He didn't crack the top 3, but still widely recognized overall. Not bad!

[ItechJester]

do you know how much it would've cost us to resign bautista if he won?

hopefully he'll win one day....when he;s under a long term contract with us!

[Jimboski]

Skip Isn't on, I guess he's out already starting a riot, :-0!

[Skip2MyLou]

God damnit. 4th?!
Hamilton okay, it was obvious he was going to win.
Cabrera okay, his numbers overall were better than bautista's besides home runs.

BUT CANO?
WHY?
cause he plays on a stacked yankees team that always finishes in the top 2 in AL?
Makes no sense, his numbers do not compare at all to Bautista's, Bautista blew him away. Not even close.

Bautista should've been 3rd or 2nd. Considering they gave Cabrera 2nd place even tho his team didn't make the playoffs either. Jays even finished better than the tigers this season.

[La Fleur]

lol.

You must be color blind... hope you realize that you were either heckling Nixon or Drew and there's no way the Jays play him in RF unless something went terribly wrong.

My bad, meant LF for when he played in Beantown, but RF for Jays . . . Bautista usually played right but if he gets moved to 3B then Manny in RF I assumed.

[La Fleur]

God damnit. 4th?!
Hamilton okay, it was obvious he was going to win.
Cabrera okay, his numbers overall were better than bautista's besides home runs.

BUT CANO?
WHY?
cause he plays on a stacked yankees team that always finishes in the top 2 in AL?
Makes no sense, his numbers do not compare at all to Bautista's, Bautista blew him away. Not even close.

Bautista should've been 3rd or 2nd. Considering they gave Cabrera 2nd place even tho his team didn't make the playoffs either. Jays even finished better than the tigers this season.

Totally agree.

Hamilton was the sexy pick. He played on much better offensive team than TOR and DET, however, this team also had other legit MVPs. Cruz was playing like one until his hammy problems. Vlad played like one all year except he can't play OF anymore due to his hobbled knees. They had one of the better 2B in Kinsler - but again, injury. Hamilton had 2 monster months, but ended up consistent all year 'round.

I was kind of torn on giving it to Miggy though, 'cause Detroit had much worse pitching than Texas and aside from a couple hundred bats worth of upstart rookie offense from Austin Jackson and Boesch, they were pretty pathetic out there (minus Magglio, but again, injury cut short a full season) Miggy was clutch all year for them, but because they sucked so bad and didn't make playoffs that hurt his chances.

I'd say similar thing for Bautista - TOR was a better team than DET, but Bautista was just so clutch all year, even when the rest of Jays were tanking. He definitely deserved more votes than Cano. Yankees were an offensive machine all year and Cano's stats wouldn't be as good if it weren't for Swisher having half an MVP like year and a constant rotation of All Stars.

[will games]

Jays are apparently kicking tires and interested in Lance Berkman

[Spray]

Because Cano put up absurd numbers all around, while being one of the best defensive players in all of baseball.
Personally, I think Cano is the most "valuable" player all around in the AL.


God damnit. 4th?!
Hamilton okay, it was obvious he was going to win.
Cabrera okay, his numbers overall were better than bautista's besides home runs.

BUT CANO?
WHY?
cause he plays on a stacked yankees team that always finishes in the top 2 in AL?
Makes no sense, his numbers do not compare at all to Bautista's, Bautista blew him away. Not even close.

Bautista should've been 3rd or 2nd. Considering they gave Cabrera 2nd place even tho his team didn't make the playoffs either. Jays even finished better than the tigers this season.

[nano]

Jays are apparently kicking tires and interested in Lance Berkman. Haha huge mistake . Berkman sucked bad as a Yankee.

[baz5]

So don't go after Berkman for having a bad 1/5 year and ignore his career .300avg and .950OPS?

[oranr]

Does anybody know if the Jays will be offering the $99 seanson ticket offer for the 2011 season?

[bobcat99]

Does anybody know if the Jays will be offering the $99 seanson ticket offer for the 2011 season?

I think this is the one for $95.

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/toronto-star-2011-blue-jays-season-pass-95-80-games-965539/

[oranr]

I think this is the one for $95.

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/toronto-star-2011-blue-jays-season-pass-95-80-games-965539/

Thank you kindly!

[mdc]

So don't go after Berkman for having a bad 1/5 year and ignore his career .300avg and .950OPS?

I have to agree ... Berkman is a solid first basemen with a ton of power, solid defense and gets on base a lot (over .400 obp for his career)

I could make an argument that he is in the top 10 in the league for 1B as a complete 1B

Pujols
Votto
Cabrera
Gonzalez
Teixeira
Morneau
Youkilis
Howard
Fielder
Berkman
Dunn
Konerko
Butler
Reynolds
Morales
Sandoval
LaRoche

That is an incredible group to be put in IMO. He had one bad season (last year) ... otherwise he has been absolutely solid

[La Fleur]

I'd take Berkman over Pena. With Pena, you'd be looking at a younger guy with more power and great defense. However, if Pena is looking for something long term, I'd take Berkman, who probably would take a 2 year deal or something and offers a better all-round package hitting-wise and would be a good veteran to have for the young guys. Don't want to lock either up long term. Last thing you want is Overbay-esque numbers long term for a 1B, which should be a power/stat heavy position.

[La Fleur]

In other MLB news . . .

I think the Dodgers signing of Uribe was terrible - probably enamoured by his one big HR in the WS playoffs, but forgot that he was hitting like sub .200 the rest of the time

The Rox signing De La Rosa for 30 mil over 3 years was too much, but he's still got potential to be a solid starter despite career ERA well over 4.00

Rangers getting Torrealba from SD was probably the best deal IMO - a solid back-up for Molina or replacement if he retires - cheap too, especially if they do break the bank on Lee

[Skip2MyLou]

Say goodbye to:
Scott Downs
Kevin Gregg
Miguel Olivo
Brian Tallet :lol: (THANK GOD :facepalm:)

Staying on the Jays:
Jason Frasor :confused: (I would rather see him go seeing that he was a Type A free agent, but I guess he loves Toronto or something, I just wish he would stop blowing games for us in 8th.)

[Maxman]

Staying on the Jays:
Jason Frasor :confused: (I would rather see him go seeing that he was a Type A free agent, but I guess he loves Toronto or something, I just wish he would stop blowing games for us in 8th.)

I believe he's married to a girl from Toronto or Kitchener or London or something. I believe there was a feature on him during the season. Adam Lind also married a local girl.

Elsewhere, another certain Jays reliever(Jeremy Accardo) left the VP of Rogers' (Phil Lind) daughter standing at the alter and has been buried in the minors ever since.

[vchan81]

I never knew that about Jeremy Accardo.... lol....no wonder then.

[trellaine201]

Jays interested in Matt Guerrier and Jesse Crain.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/blue-jays-interested-in-matt-guerrier.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[La Fleur]

I believe he's married to a girl from Toronto or Kitchener or London or something. I believe there was a feature on him during the season. Adam Lind also married a local girl.

Elsewhere, another certain Jays reliever(Jeremy Accardo) left the VP of Rogers' (Phil Lind) daughter standing at the alter and has been buried in the minors ever since.

Really? I too wondered why he suddenly dissappeared. :facepalm:

Frasor's wife is HOT! Google a pic, she's easily one of the best looking player wives on the Jays

[skyblue12]

Really? I too wondered why he suddenly dissappeared. :facepalm:

Frasor's wife is HOT! Google a pic, she's easily one of the best looking player wives on the Jays

for those interested:

http://mopupduty.com/index.php/blue-jays-wives-girlfriends/

[heimdal]

for those interested:

http://mopupduty.com/index.php/blue-jays-wives-girlfriends/

Ricky Romero = win

[Skip2MyLou]

I believe he's married to a girl from Toronto or Kitchener or London or something. I believe there was a feature on him during the season. Adam Lind also married a local girl.

Elsewhere, another certain Jays reliever(Jeremy Accardo) left the VP of Rogers' (Phil Lind) daughter standing at the alter and has been buried in the minors ever since.

yeah apparently he pissed off someone in the management because of his attitude in the minors. So, their not wanting to promote him is understandable. They would rather give some young guns a call up to the majors.

However, i think he could compete for that closer role again this year if they allow him to, he didn't do too bad as the jays' closer 2 years ago.

[will games]

Dunn signed with the White Sox

[antigua1999]

Say goodbye to:
Scott Downs
Kevin Gregg
Miguel Olivo
Brian Tallet :lol: (THANK GOD :facepalm:)

Staying on the Jays:
Jason Frasor :confused: (I would rather see him go seeing that he was a Type A free agent, but I guess he loves Toronto or something, I just wish he would stop blowing games for us in 8th.)

No No dont say goodbye to Scott Downs. He is very valuable to our bullpen. I hope AA can get him signed long term.

[trellaine201]

Dunn signed with the White Sox

He can hit but not a very good fielder. I hope Jays sign someone. :) Just for the hell of it.

[will games]

he can hit but not a very good fielder. I hope jays sign someone. :) just for the hell of it.

manny!!!!:)

[dragon_drift]

manny!!!!:)

Noo! ok fine only if we get him for really cheap $5m/yr =D

[wszeto28]

Not a huge signing but Jays picked up Carlos Villaueva from Milwaukee.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/article/901351--blue-jays-pick-up-carlos-villanueva-from-brewers

[La Fleur]

He can hit but not a very good fielder. I hope Jays sign someone. :) Just for the hell of it.

Now that Dunn is there, we should steal away Konerko!

[dragon_drift]

Now that Dunn is there, we should steal away Konerko!

I was gonna say that, but Lind will switch to DH?

[La Fleur]

A-Gon officially a Red Sox (Red Sock?). Yikes. He's gonna tear it up in the AL. Short right field bleachers in Fenway, Yankee Stadium/ plus the meatball sauce in Rogers Centre. Not to mention he's now on one of the best offensive clubs in all of baseball, rather than the anemic Padres, so tons of run support. I could see him legitimately contend for AL MVP. I think the Red Sox pitchers will bounce back too, and I'm gonna give Boston the edge as best club in the East.

Yankees are old. They need Crawford/Lee to reclaim first place mantle.

I think Rays could be worse than O's next year. Jays once again looking like a 3rd place team, but hopefully Yankees don't get Lee and get stuck with a bunch of oldies and bad pitching.

[trellaine201]

A-Gon officially a Red Sox (Red Sock?). Yikes. He's gonna tear it up in the AL. Short right field bleachers in Fenway, Yankee Stadium/ plus the meatball sauce in Rogers Centre. Not to mention he's now on one of the best offensive clubs in all of baseball, rather than the anemic Padres, so tons of run support. I could see him legitimately contend for AL MVP. I think the Red Sox pitchers will bounce back too, and I'm gonna give Boston the edge as best club in the East.

Yankees are old. They need Crawford/Lee to reclaim first place mantle.

I think Rays could be worse than O's next year. Jays once again looking like a 3rd place team, but hopefully Yankees don't get Lee and get stuck with a bunch of oldies and bad pitching.

Gonzalez will and is a beast. I think he will eat up AL pitching.

[djstiles]

A-Gon is going to be in heaven coming to the AL. Too bad because I always liked him on the Padres even though there team was always up and down

[baller]

adrian is a bonifide superstar. all of the al east parks are hitters parks. bad news for the jays i suppose. but watching the al east next year eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek. boston and nyy will still be teams to beat though. obviously

[La Fleur]

^

I concur with all. Hopefully he'll finally get the recognition he deserves. Funny 'cause he wants to get a fat contract equal to Ryan Howard, but IMO he's way better than Howard.

Boston is the team to beat, though. I think their pitchers will have a big bounce-back year. NY is aged and they just shilled out a small-market team's salary to retain Jeter and Rivera. Should they overpay for Lee, they'll still need to upgrade their offense/defense/starting pitching. Most of their best players are past prime. Only Cano should have similar #s to last year. Swish is too streaky. Hughes is up and down. Pettite will struggle to stay healthy. Crawford would solve a lot, hopefully they dont get him

[La Fleur]

Berkman is now a St Louis Cardinal. Guess he'll be playing LF with Holliday shifting over to RF. Not sure how he'll do defensively in OF, but the addition of Berkman gives them a solid core of power hitters.

[will games]

Derek Jeter resigned with the Yanks for 3 years $51 million

[Psubs]

Not a huge signing but Jays picked up Carlos Villanueva from Milwaukee.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/article/901351--blue-jays-pick-up-carlos-villanueva-from-brewers

Didn't they trade him to Milwaukee for T.J. Ford?

[Jimboski]

Derek Jeter resigned with the Yanks for 3 years $51 million

Next signed will be Cliff Lee?

[Skip2MyLou]

With Red Sox getting Gonzalez, does that mean they won't be resigning Beltre?
So Youk can move back to his natural position at 3rd.

Jays could use a third baseman in Beltre :D
Just don't over pay for him.

[trellaine201]

With Red Sox getting Gonzalez, does that mean they won't be resigning Beltre?
So Youk can move back to his natural position at 3rd.

Jays could use a third baseman in Beltre :D
Just don't over pay for him.

LOL wishful thinking in Beltre :) I think in the majority of cases "canadian" pro sports teams overpay to some extent. It depends on how much we need or want that player. Jays have money if they want to spend. I think it really depends on other trades/signings that may or may not occur.

What do you think is our number1 need?

[dragon_drift]

Next signed will be Cliff Lee?

I hope Cliff Lee won't sign in New York. It's just too much.

Glad to see Mariano Rivera back though, he's 41 and still going strong =D

[will games]

Good news for Jays fans...first Werth signed a 7 year deal worth $126 million, then the Red Sox also lost Gonzalez as they couldnt come to agreement on an extension :)



So happy...screw the sox lol

[trellaine201]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/brewers-acquire-shaun-marcum.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Marcum on the move.

[Spray]

Gaining prospects to acquire Greinke.

Stay tuned.


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/brewers-acquire-shaun-marcum.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Marcum on the move.

[La Fleur]

Gaining prospects to acquire Greinke.

Stay tuned.

Hopefully that's the case.

Could be a smart move by AA. Brewers starting pitching is a joke. Trade a young, but established starter in Marcum for solid prospects. Jays in turn can use some of those prospects for Greinke, rather than using all of Snider, Drabek, Arencibia, etc. Royals get the young prospects they want and Jays get Greinke without gimping possible studs in the offensive category. Jays are filthy rich in pitching, so I'd prefer they keep possible studs like Arencibia/Snider. I'd like a second look at Drabek, but if he goes I won't be heartbroken. Would be an unfortunate case, considering how long they coveted him.

[Spray]

Rumor is now it's Brett Lawrie:

Top 60 prospect, canadian 2B
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Lawrie

he'll be a Jay for less than 24 hours as he'll be traded for Greinke or whoever

[La Fleur]

With Red Sox getting Gonzalez, does that mean they won't be resigning Beltre?
So Youk can move back to his natural position at 3rd.

Jays could use a third baseman in Beltre :D
Just don't over pay for him.

Beltre played well over his head for the Red Sox. He did the same for his past team when a contract was expiring. As talented as Beltre is, he's the principle 3rd basemen on the market and will likely get more value than he deserves. He's good, but he's not MVP material every year. And he'd be asking MVP money. I don't think the JAys should try to acquire him. Plus, he doesn't like being touched. I can see that not fitting in well with a somewhat jokey-touchy-feely team like the Jays.

I agree with your assessment of the A-Gon situation. Youkie at 3rd. A-Gon at first. That's one hell of an infield with a healthy Pedroia and Scutaro.

[baller]

i dont know how i feel about giving up marcum. he's a legit number 2 or 3 guy on a playoff team. lawrie is an elite prospect, but i dunno if i make that deal 1 for 1. hopefully as more details leak hopefully its uncovered that we got at least another tier 2 prospect ie. Gamel

[La Fleur]

Rumor is now it's Brett Lawrie:

Top 60 prospect, canadian 2B
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Lawrie

he'll be a Jay for less than 24 hours as he'll be traded for Greinke or whoever

How close is he to being MLB ready?

Royals seemed to have some success from Betemit, Betancourt, Aviles last year, so I'd think they'd be more interested in OF, especially after losing Guillen and DeJesus.

[baller]

lawrie is probably at least a year away, but could see some action in the 2nd half on this coming season. although it'd probably be at 3rd base - i think hill may be a little better defensively at 2b

[Spray]

Irrelevant to us, were not keeping him.

Agon deadline passed, I think Boston isn't trading for him now?


How close is he to being MLB ready?

Royals seemed to have some success from Betemit, Betancourt, Aviles last year, so I'd think they'd be more interested in OF, especially after losing Guillen and DeJesus.

[baller]

Irrelevant to us, were not keeping him.

Agon deadline passed, I think Boston isn't trading for him now?

if in any trade we're giving up an inf prospect, id rather trade hech and keep lawrie...

[La Fleur]

LOL wishful thinking in Beltre :) I think in the majority of cases "canadian" pro sports teams overpay to some extent. It depends on how much we need or want that player. Jays have money if they want to spend. I think it really depends on other trades/signings that may or may not occur.

What do you think is our number1 need?

Yea, I tend to think Jays have to overpay to compete with Yanks/BoSox and more so because of being in Canada.

Then again, it only takes one team to screw everyone. Nationals just did that with Werth. This could be the making of their very own Vernon Wells deal :facepalm: I like Werth, but 127 million?! My gut tells me that the Nationals will regret this and they'll be non-contenders for many more years to come.

I think #1 need is some bullpen arms/a consistent hitter. Jays have lots of good starting pitching, but no lockdown 1 inning/2 out type of pitchers outside of Downs and occaisionally Frasor. Gregg is a heart attack every night, although he does have good strikeout stuff, he nibbles at the strike zone way too much. All the others are inconsistent. The middle relievers are quite decent, guys like Purcey, Camp. Then again, I also think anyone could become a legit closer. Still, it would be awesome to get someone like Soria or Bell.

As for hitting, Jays need a guy who can hit .310, bang 20-25 taters, close to 100 RBI. Right now, that's Crawford and that 'aint happening. Jays have tons of power. They are also quite adequate at defense for the most part. They need some guy who can hit .300+, outside of Escobar, and a good OBP. Lind and Hill are too much of wildcard at this point if they ever hit .300 or close to it. Snider/Arenicibia too early to tell. If Jays could find a way to get a consistently double hitting machine on base, they'd benefit greatly. Wells is a doubles machine as well, but showed last year his plate discipline is not there. Signing a strikeout/power monster like Reynolds is not ideal. I don't really think there's anyone out there that fits this mold. This is why I think the Jays should keep Snider/Arenicibia.

[La Fleur]

Irrelevant to us, were not keeping him.

Agon deadline passed, I think Boston isn't trading for him now?

I was curious about how he fit into Royals system. Even though I'm a Jays fan, I do like to see what other teams are doing and if it makes sense. If he's one year away, I suppose this might be ok for KC. Not like I care, they are a never-ending prospect spewing machine. They just harvest good talent and spit it out right when they get good. Hopefully, like Greinke when he comes to Jays :twisted:

[Spray]

ROFL cause Hech is a trade chip for greinke? come on mannnnn


if in any trade we're giving up an inf prospect, id rather trade hech and keep lawrie...

[Maxman]

Nationals just did that with Werth. This could be the making of their very own Vernon Wells deal. I like Werth, but 127 million?!


As for hitting, Jays need a guy who can hit .310, bang 20-25 taters, close to 100 RBI. Right now, that's Crawford and that 'aint happening. Jays have tons of power. They are also quite adequate at defense for the most part. They need some guy who can hit .300+, outside of Escobar, and a good OBP. Lind and Hill are too much of wildcard at this point if they ever hit .300 or close to it. Snider/Arenicibia too early to tell. If Jays could find a way to get a consistently double hitting machine on base, they'd benefit greatly. Wells is a doubles machine as well, but showed last year his plate discipline is not there. Signing a strikeout/power monster like Reynolds is not ideal. I don't really think there's anyone out there that fits this mold. This is why I think the Jays should keep Snider/Arenicibia.

First - Werth is a much better all around player than Wells - and most of that comes from effort > talent! Wells seems way too content collecting his paycheque!

As for a .310, 20-25HR, 100 RBI guy - that IS NOT Carl Crawford. Crawford would be a good addition, but has never exceeded 19 HRs (contract year), 90 RBI (Contract year)m and has only hit .310+ once in his career. The Jays had a player that was very close statistically to Crawford and gave him away and continued to pay part of his contract. His name was Alex Rios.

Carl Crawford (after 9 seasons)
1235 G
1480 1B
215 2B
105 3B
104 HR
592 RBI
409 SB
.296 BA
.337 OBP

Alex Rios (after 7 seasons)
997 G
551 R
1065 1B
230 2B
39 3B
105 HR
492 RBI
151 SB
.281 BA
.331 OBP

Ironically, Rios was run out of town on a rail while Tampa fans lament life after their "cornerstone player" leaves via free agency.

[vchan81]

Greinke to the jays would be pretty cool... I hope it happens.

[m4gician]

BREAKING: JUST SAW THIS ON SPORTSNET, THE BLUE JAYS HAVE TRADED SHAUN MARCUM FOR 2B BRETT LAWRIE FROM THE BREWERS

AWESOME.

It's official according to twitter? As well, Greinke vs. Halladay when Jays vs. Phillies? Oh wow, that'll be AWESOME!! Greinke is the PERFECT guy for this staff. PERFECT! Wow. Let's get ManRam in the lineup and we have a SERIOUS team on the field.

[Psubs]

BREAKING: JUST SAW THIS ON SPORTSNET, THE BLUE JAYS HAVE TRADED SHAUN MARCUM FOR 2B BRETT LAWRIE FROM THE BREWERS

http://i.imgur.com/n3KYt.jpg

:-0

[m4gician]

:-0

bah it makes his autographed ball I have from him worthless -_- doesn't it? My brother got a Shaun Marcum autographed Jays jersey...ah well lol.

Speaking of sale, the Jays store at the Rogers centre has a lot of nice stuff on sale. Get a staff member of the building friend to get you 50% off on their merchandise for a limited time.

[Maxman]

A Greinke deal makes no sense unless they can sign him to an extension. The Jays will not compete for the playoffs in the next two seasons, and they are trading away the present (Marcum) and future (Drabek, Lawrie, Snider, picks) for a guy who has had one pretty good season in four seasons in the majors. Statistically, Marcum is a better career pitcher than Greinke and Marcum seems more tenacious while Greinke suffers from an anxiety disorder that would terrify me if he had to pitch against NY, Boston, or Philly fans in the playoffs.

The Jays still missing a bullpen, closer, 3B, 1B. Yup, this will make them a contender! Someone should slap AA upside the head and talk him out of this deal - it is way too early!

[m4gician]

Sportsnet just said the Jays are dangling SNIDER *AND* DRABEK!? For Greinke? Wow. That makes it Halladay and Snider for Greinke, Gose & D'Arnaud? Wow...that's a mammoth trade, that's almost 1 for 1 given that Halladay is proven and Snider has power. But man...that is HUGE! That's a very even trade...i'd rather the Jays win it and not trade Snider and Drabek. Drabek, Greinke, Cecil, Morrow and Romero would be amazing starting 5. It has the potential to be as good as Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz + 2!!!

Come on AA, you're getting me excited for single game ticket sales and it's only the first freakin week of December!!

As well, Greinke has amazing stuff. His pitches are magic, he just played in Kansas behind a bad team (remind you of anyone? number 32 maybe?). The Jays can put a respectable team on the field next season that might be able to San Diego it into the playoffs...we just need some hitting. The hitting has to come from anywhere.

Given what was done with Adrian Gonzalez, maybe they get Greinke to an extension?

[dragon_drift]

=S I rather they keep Snider and Drabek...

Lawrie would be a nice addition though given his onbase and base stealing abilities

[tighty whities]

The foul pole in RF (Pesky Pole) is short , but it is not even close to being considered a short porch (look at the distance to the bullpens). If you're ever there, you'll see how the quirky dimensions make it quite the shot for a HR. As well, although Gonzalez is a LH hitter, he drives the ball better to left-center field.


A-Gon officially a Red Sox (Red Sock?). Yikes. He's gonna tear it up in the AL. Short right field bleachers in Fenway, Yankee Stadium/ plus the meatball sauce in Rogers Centre. Not to mention he's now on one of the best offensive clubs in all of baseball, rather than the anemic Padres, so tons of run support. I could see him legitimately contend for AL MVP. I think the Red Sox pitchers will bounce back too, and I'm gonna give Boston the edge as best club in the East.

Yankees are old. They need Crawford/Lee to reclaim first place mantle.

I think Rays could be worse than O's next year. Jays once again looking like a 3rd place team, but hopefully Yankees don't get Lee and get stuck with a bunch of oldies and bad pitching.

The Gonzalez trade did go through.. and the best thing to happen for the sox is that any other team not named Detroit, signed Werth


Good news for Jays fans...first Werth signed a 7 year deal worth $126 million, then the Red Sox also lost Gonzalez as they couldnt come to agreement on an extension :)



So happy...screw the sox lol

[trellaine201]

Unfortunately the "other" suspect team has been shut out so far. They hate when the press doesn't mention or talk about them considering they think they are the center of the universe. They will just move on to the next HIGH priced FA.

[m4gician]

=S I rather they keep Snider and Drabek...

Lawrie would be a nice addition though given his onbase and base stealing abilities

Drabek & Grienke in the same lineup would be better since the Halladay trade would look really really good.

[La Fleur]

First - Werth is a much better all around player than Wells - and most of that comes from effort > talent! Wells seems way too content collecting his paycheque!

As for a .310, 20-25HR, 100 RBI guy - that IS NOT Carl Crawford. Crawford would be a good addition, but has never exceeded 19 HRs (contract year), 90 RBI (Contract year)m and has only hit .310+ once in his career. The Jays had a player that was very close statistically to Crawford and gave him away and continued to pay part of his contract. His name was Alex Rios.

Carl Crawford (after 9 seasons)
1235 G
1480 1B
215 2B
105 3B
104 HR
592 RBI
409 SB
.296 BA
.337 OBP

Alex Rios (after 7 seasons)
997 G
551 R
1065 1B
230 2B
39 3B
105 HR
492 RBI
151 SB
.281 BA
.331 OBP

Ironically, Rios was run out of town on a rail while Tampa fans lament life after their "cornerstone player" leaves via free agency.

Yea, was just making a brief comparison. Trust me, I'm only comparing Werth to Wells in terms of contracts and being overpaid, not worth per dollar. Werth definitely is more bang for buck, but like Wells, he's getting overpaid and the Nats will ultimately regret it, no matter if Werth is likeable (he is) and performs generally well for most of his tenure (he will) - a lot like Wells' path.

As for the stat line, I just used Crawford as an example. A Gon would have been a better comparison, but I just used someone who's still left on the market.

[Skip2MyLou]

man, i liked shaun marcum a lot.
He was the clear clubhouse leader on the Jays, and was a very consistent pitcher.

I really hope AA can pull of Greinke, cause that would be the only move that makes sense to give up the leader on the team, considering the four starting pitchers had a great relationship with one another last year.

[La Fleur]

man, i liked shaun marcum a lot.
He was the clear clubhouse leader on the Jays, and was a very consistent pitcher.

I really hope AA can pull of Greinke, cause that would be the only move that makes sense to give up the leader on the team, considering the four starting pitchers had a great relationship with one another last year.

Marcum also had one hell of a sense of humour. Seemed like a genuine guy that could be a coach down the road. Balanced the team out a bit.

[m4gician]

Marcum also had one hell of a sense of humour. Seemed like a genuine guy that could be a coach down the road. Balanced the team out a bit.

That intangible will be missed, that's why my heart sank a little when I saw this. I thought of the kind of character they'd be losing in the room. I even saw him in that "big 4 interview" Jamie Campbell did. He had the guys laughing the entire time. One gem: Jamie: "Brett (Cecil), what do you wish you take from the other pitchers to help you in your career" Shaun: "My body maybe." He did that tape outline of Vernon wells and vernon set his pants on fire (http://mediadownloads.mlb.com/mlbam/2010/09/14/mlbtv_torbal_12084373_1m.mp4)

hopefully Brett Cecil can step up to replace that kind of guy in the locker room...that's the kind of thing that brings the team closer together.

[m4gician]

Btw, if we do get Zack...apparently the kid can hit if needed.

"Greinke's first major league hit was a home run off Arizona Diamondbacks pitcher Russ Ortiz in a 12–11 loss on June 10, 2005." - Wikipedia

[dragon_drift]

Drabek & Grienke in the same lineup would be better since the Halladay trade would look really really good.

Realistically, we have to give up someone. If aa pulls it off, it'd be great

[Skip2MyLou]

Marcum also had one hell of a sense of humour. Seemed like a genuine guy that could be a coach down the road. Balanced the team out a bit.

he was also the guy that did the shaving cream in the face in the post game interviews after one of his teammates had a big game.
Someone needs to take over that role now.