Pics of Pollution In China

[Kuurgen]

Saw this on digg, thought it worthy of a repost.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/gallery/2007/jul/18/china.pollution?picture=330216042

Click on the pictures to cycle them.

[cmge]

Wow

[sexpuppet6000]

must smell really bad

[hardcandy1911]

Does he really need to go into the water to grab the dead fish? Seems like hes trying to pick the best out of the worst.

[Waiwai]

How the heck are they going to clean up before the Olympics? Some of those pictures look like those from anime/movies when they showed the factories, wow.

[N_Raged]

Not so different from when I visited Viet Nam. The air was fairly bad when riding a scooter through the packed streets, and city rivers are now shallow black streams.

[Odysseus_Maximus]

must smell really bad

+1

[riskit]

It will be canned and for sale in your local market by next month.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/business_russian_spat_hits_latvian_sprats/img/3.jpg

[a_y3n]

It will be canned and for sale in your local market by next month.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/business_russian_spat_hits_latvian_sprats/img/3.jpg

I think I'm going to be sick .....

[Frankie3s]

It will be canned and for sale in your local market by next month.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/business_russian_spat_hits_latvian_sprats/img/3.jpg

People don't appreciate how true this could be. Coming to a market near you.

[Cacti]

People don't appreciate how true this could be. Coming to a market near you.

Who buys canned fish other then tuna and i don't think that is tuna.

[Frankie3s]

Who buys canned fish other then tuna and i don't think that is tuna.

When you're in a restaurant eating fish how would you know? Fish balls, sushi, anything could be made from these and no one would be none the wiser.

[ronin893]

The Guardian is increasingly seeming to be the UK's version of Fox News. Jeez, picture #9 is a picture of a sandstorm. And the satellite picture at #1 looks either photochopped or a very selective day. Go to a website like terraserver.com and look at some typical satellite photos of China.

Yes, some places stink, like right next to a factory. It's the same everywhere in the world. You think Hamilton smells nice? :) However, by and large, the air there is not as bad as the pictures make it out to be. Note how most of the pictures are narrow-angled shots.

[robattoronto]

Alright, the pictures taken are showing the worst conditions and they're clearly biased. But thats what the article and photographer set out to do anyways.

And it doesn't take much to bring out the haters from the woodwork. There's been a lot of China bashing going on for the past few month and frankly its beginning to get very tiring.

[SwiZz]

how the heck did they even win a bid to host the olympics? did no one even go there to see the place first? lol

[gizmo8]

Consumers have as much to blame as the Chinese goverment themselves...Im sure you can find a product that is made in China in your home that you have no idea how its was made and if it was done eco friendly...you want low price?, manufacturers have to find cheap labour...you got to go to Asia and South America to make your products knowing full well the eco damaged that is being done..thats the price you pay for materialistic goods...

[dealforme]

Consumers have as much to blame as the Chinese goverment themselves...Im sure you can find a product that is made in China in your home that you have no idea how its was made and if it was done eco friendly...you want low price?, manufacturers have to find cheap labour...you got to go to Asia and South America to make your products knowing full well the eco damaged that is being done..thats the price you pay for materialistic goods...

+1

I think most of these images came from National Geographic. I remember reading it a while ago how much pollution is cause by the massive growth. It's also not helping old computers are shipped from North America to China and expecting them to use or dispose of them.

[trixstar]

wow.. those are some nasty images.. and i thought the smog alerts in toronto was bad..... this is like there's no tomorrow..

[LuuC]

So how do they even begin to clean the algae while on those row boats?

[trixstar]

So how do they even begin to clean the algae while on those row boats?

maybe its a fleet of boats :confused: :confused:

at least they tried :cheesygri

[ephemera]

And to think, under Kyoto, Canada would be punished and forced to buy carbon credits from China! WOW.

[Bullseye]

This is simply the environmental cost of our western gluttony. We've exported pollution and multiplied it, by moving manufacturing from here, where there are decent eco-laws, to there, where there are next to none.

[lh0628]

This is simply the environmental cost of our western gluttony. We've exported pollution and multiplied it, by moving manufacturing from here, where there are decent eco-laws, to there, where there are next to none.

Best post I've seen on RDF. Look at the bigger picture people.

[skyblue12]

wow.. you can barely see the skies in some of those pics.. it's ridiculous..

[jackieskwong]

even if the photographer's main purpose was to capture the worse..you still can't deny the fact that China has these problems.

[Firebot]

And to think, under Kyoto, Canada would be punished and forced to buy carbon credits from China! WOW.

Yup. Another reason why the Kyoto Protocol is the most ridiculous and useless treaty ever created.

[imoo2u]

That is for being buying cheap and selling at hugh profits by big western corporations. Us, consumers get into thinking that they are doing us a big favour to save $$, environment etc by moving overseas. Do you think those corporate heads give S**Ts to any consumers even their own employees down the chain. Actually, they (CEOs) are laughing to the banks with bigger bonuses and enjoying themselves.

Think about it when you buy/consume any product. Plus your job is on the line ... the ei queue is getting longer one day despite all the robust economic reports coming out. Sc*w the future .. enjoy now, people ... that's what BIG corporation heads are doing. Probably they are ones will survive on earth as they are loaded with $$ to shield from MD of the planet Earth. lol

Al Gore ... where are you? ....

[cmge]

Al Gore ... where are you? ....
looking for the man bear pig... :lol:

i cant imagine how hard the O2 exchange sprinters and runners will have during the olympics... :S

[cheukiecfu]

how the heck did they even win a bid to host the olympics? did no one even go there to see the place first? lol
Well.. it's about time China hosts a summer olympics..
it has the world's largest population..

I do agree that the pollution in developing cities in China are pretty bad..
but to be fair, I am sure every country has aspects that are not doing well..

I just hate the fact they pack every imaginable things as food and sell them.

[whampoa]

Al Gore ... where are you? ....

If Al has his way, we'll all be out of job, worship mother Earth and force to listen to Sheryl Crowbar.

[Lone_Prodigy]

Al Gore ... where are you? ....

Why don't you try to find him in his enormous home: yeah it's "green", but still consumes much more electricity than the average home.

[Tijuana]

How can anyone say these pics are biased? Pollution is not good, so you must show the worst possible pictures you can. There isnt such thing as abit of pollution, it doesnt matter if 1 lake has 5 L of oil dumped in it, or 500 L of oil, its still pollution

[afong56]

no one should be surprised that china is polluting at these levels

the nature of china's explosive economic growth is no different than the wholesale environmental carnage that took place in britain and the u.s. (200 and 150 years ago)

the only difference is scale, and the fact that contemporary china seems to be replacing the manufacturing sectors of large parts of the developed world. the market for chinese products is vast and seemingly unsatiable.

it would be one thing if they were only making products for its domestic market, but walmart is an unstoppable force, eh?

[teknoluv]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/gallery/2007/jul/18/china.pollution?picture=330216042
The pictures are actually VERY professionally taken. It's more the intention behind those who try to bash China that's terrible. But then they actually shouldn't bash too hard, because the country WILL go past this growing pain, JUST LIKE OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRIES; bashing her too hard may just speed up that process, which is NOT what those bashers want. ;p

[and or]

Amazing how two parallel conversations are taking part in this thread - the sensible one and the prejudiced one - and barely any interaction/quoting between the two.

[gordholio]

Who buys canned fish other then tuna and i don't think that is tuna.

Ever heard of sardines? :confused:

[king_george]

Ever heard of sardines? :confused:

How's about salmon?:lol:

[CanadaBoy]

How's about salmon?:lol:

salmonella, ella ella eh eh eh

[Lone_Prodigy]

Amazing how two parallel conversations are taking part in this thread - the sensible one and the prejudiced one - and barely any interaction/quoting between the two.

So which one is which?

[BelligerentDog]

That was pretty disgusting. About the same feeling I got as when we drove past Hamilton last week. How can people live in that filth? It's just horrible.

[cmge]

salmonella, ella ella eh eh eh

:lol:

[Noob1ee]

That was pretty disgusting. About the same feeling I got as when we drove past Hamilton last week. How can people live in that filth? It's just horrible.

=O
Someone has got to take some pics of Hamilton, I wanna see how bad it is...I'm curious.

[me0kat]

i remember i used to live in hk really up high in the mountains and i couldn't see the sky, just like in some of the pics. Although I'm not sure if it was just fog or pollution.
You can walk outside and not see much

[Kuurgen]

I lived in Hamilton for awhile and it was pretty depressing. Smog was bad, but last time I went it didn't seem so bad which was a few years ago.


I'm hoping China fares well eventually, from the documentries I've seen, China is kind of like the wild west right now.

Eventually when things get bad enough they'll start to bring about change.

It says more about the corporate faces of the rest of the world.

In North America they'll tell us we should save the enviroment by buying reusable bags instead of plastic ones.

Meanwhile at backdoor they're shipping in products that were manufactured
without regard to the enviroment, and/or without regard for the folks making them.

Corporations are pretty two faced.

I find it absolutely horrific, going by quotes in these photos that people
are drinking dirty water when China so clearly has the technological abilty to
restructure their manufacturing processes so the enviroment or humans are not destroyed.

This is not anti Chinese sentiment you're seeing here, for those of you who cry conspiracy.

Would you like any member of your family to live that way? When it's absolutely unnecessary, considering all the mistakes other countries have made?

Let's face it, if China produced nothing or goods were equal to that of North American in cost as far as production, and there wasn't millions to be made
on the back of China, would the rest of the world allow these things to happen in China without sanctions?

There are some pretty bad abuses going on in China, but if you look at how then rest of the world is turning a blind eye when they should be doing something, it's kind of sad.

Living in Canada, we're not going to pay the price.

When the rivers in China are black with pollution and all the fish are dead, and the wheat that comes off the stalk is grey from pollution, you'll see that the Chinese citizenry is going to pay the price. Not us.

It's with some irritation that I see the odd poster complain about China bashing.


If this is not the picture of China, then what is it? What China are you seeing?

I've heard horror stories of villages contaminating their own water sources while melting down PCB boards for precious metals reclaimation.

I just don't get it, enlighten me as to how these pictures taken in China are construed as China bashing?

If I saw the same picture here I'd be appalled.

If I was Chinese, and loved China, I'd be concerned for some of the things occuring there.

It's sad that bad things occuring in China, and discussion of it, in your eyes is considered bashing.

[teknoluv]

from the documentries I've seen, China is kind of like the wild west right now.
For those who know a thing or two about politics or economics, China is more like the four little dragons in SE Asia during the 70s & 80s. Some others align it to the New Authoritarian states in Latin America around the same timeframe. In short, GROWING PAIN!


Eventually when things get bad enough they'll start to bring about change.
"They" have been making changes for quite some time now; it's just that Rome wasn't exactly built in a day.


people are drinking dirty water when China so clearly has the technological abilty to restructure their manufacturing processes so the enviroment or humans are not destroyed.
First, technology requires MONEY to implement. Some people just don't understand that enforcing regulations itself is a VERY difficult task, esp. in a HUGE country like China, and choose to believe instead that the central government in China INTENTIONALLY allow, endorse or even encourage all these to happen.


There are some pretty bad abuses going on in China, but if you look at how then rest of the world is turning a blind eye when they should be doing something, it's kind of sad.
Because people in the know KNOW that the central Chinese government (less so in local jurisdictions though, because of their vested interests) IS doing her best. Don't worry, usually during elections, some politicians will stand up and bash China a bit, just to please some of their stupid voters.


When the rivers in China are black with pollution and all the fish are dead, and the wheat that comes off the stalk is grey from pollution, you'll see that the Chinese citizenry is going to pay the price. Not us.
Unlike some war-torn anarchies like Somalia where warlords care only about themselves, or even the previous generations of ruling elites in China, the current and last governments (of Wen and Zhu) are actually looking out for the best interests of the Chinese people. Thank you for your kindheartedness.


I just don't get it, enlighten me as to how these pictures taken in China are construed as China bashing?
Journalism 101.


It's sad that bad things occuring in China, and discussion of it, in your eyes is considered bashing.
Informed discussion is not bashing, but look at this thread, INCL. the first post.

[and or]

For those who know a thing or two...

Your whole response was well done, but I especially liked the following comment:


Journalism 101.

+1

[Electricute]

im actually in china right now on vacation.

i was in beijing for a couple of days and its actually much cleaner than toronto. they have an overflow of people so they have people hired to sweep leaves off the road, and dirt from the sidewalks. theres also people washing the railings in the middle of the road. However it is VERY smoggy, and some days the sun is hidden behind the smog, it feels very humid and hot. some places its dirty and smelly, but those are like the ghettos, but the main city part is fairly clean.

[rekearb]

you guys do realize that the average canadian wastes way more than the average china guy by a lot? its just that china has a way denser population than canada. so just consider yourselves lucky

[canabiz]

Who buys canned fish other then tuna and i don't think that is tuna.

I bought sardines and salmon

[canabiz]

The pictures are actually VERY professionally taken. It's more the intention behind those who try to bash China that's terrible. But then they actually shouldn't bash too hard, because the country WILL go past this growing pain, JUST LIKE OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRIES; bashing her too hard may just speed up that process, which is NOT what those bashers want. ;p

You are a very proud Chinese aren't you teknoluv ? I have seen you defending your motherland at every occasion possible, is there such a thing as constructive criticism ? You have to wonder when China and Canada go to war (if there's such a thing), I shudder to think which side you will be on ?

[BadDrafter]

This is simply the environmental cost of our western gluttony. We've exported pollution and multiplied it, by moving manufacturing from here, where there are decent eco-laws, to there, where there are next to none.

They have eco-laws?

Seriously, why coal? Why not go nuclear instead like India is going.

I hope you young folks realize this is what would have happened to Canada and the United States had we not wizened up about things like acid rain and pollution in the late 80s. It took us decades to turn around, especially in Alberta, where flaring excess gas used to be a way of life.

[robattoronto]

I am a proud Chinese as well, even though I wasn't born in China. And I just visited China for the first time ever for a monthlong visit and what you see and read in the media is different from actually being there in person yourself.

I can tell you that with that there's a bit of an unfairness China bashing mentality which is going on these days. Let me clarify.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issues with constructive criticism. I'll be the first one in line to say that China has serious human rights issues. I was there and I experienced it.

And that there are pollution issues in their major cities. They rely on coal a lot and their pollution levels are scaled to exceed USA's pollution level this year. But there is such a thing such as one sided journalism. If you read carefully into it, there is a slant they take. These articles fails to mention some of the steps the Chinese people there are taking to counter the issue. If you care to read about it, pick up this month's Popular Science magazine and read it. I'm not gonna get into details here.

As a Chinese person living in TO, even though I'm not responsible for the dumbass things happening in China when they cut corners to save money, it is still very hard to digest a comment like:


Chinese people think of everything to put into food.
Avoid MIC products at the grocery stores.

Er yah, that would pretty much tick me off. And if you said that to my face, I'd serve you a knuckle sandwich right there. And thats just one example of the crap floating around these days.

My point? By all means criticize the wrongdoings. The quality control, the human rights, the pollution. But I do have a beef with people blaming the entire f@ck!n race and nation for the stupidity in the decisions made by a group of lets say a million people!

When GM makes a car which catches fire, or an SUV which rolls over often, the entire friggin car industry does not get blamed for it, nor the entire US of A, nor the entire Americans as a whole. If you don't like GM products, don't buy it! I'm sure you're getting my point here.

To blame the entire manufacturers in China for bad Chinese products is being pretty shortsighted I would say. More than half of the so called name brand premium products you have in your house are made in China.

If the toothpaste are toxic, by all means sue the hell out of that manufacturer in China. Name the company, not the friggin nation.

And everything aside, I think China needs to step up their public relations. Cuz they seriously need a PR office here in North America. Speaking as a Chinese, I think the goverment is way too quiet in dealing with the negative publicity. Very much same as what happens in playgrounds in highschools. But I digress. I have read only *ONE* official news release from the Chinese goverment. If I find the link I will post it.

S'tough being Chinese living in North America these days. Ugh.













You are a very proud Chinese aren't you teknoluv ? I have seen you defending your motherland at every occasion possible, is there such a thing as constructive criticism ? You have to wonder when China and Canada go to war (if there's such a thing), I shudder to think which side you will be on ?

[robattoronto]

Some interesting reading:

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN19219345
http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN1942919120070719
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSPEK18739620070719

[robattoronto]

A footnote: I'm a proud Canadian as well. And I'm support the values Canada stands for. But to answer your question, if China and Canada goes to war, I would support the side on not going to war.

WTF happened to Canada with the role of being a peacekeeping nation?? With Harper in the helm, it seems like we have dumped that role. A puppet to the US I tell ya. But again, I digress.


You have to wonder when China and Canada go to war (if there's such a thing), I shudder to think which side you will be on ?

[toalan]

The level of pollution in china is disgusting but that sacrafice is worth it once the $50 Blu-ray players hit the market.

[and or]

The level of pollution in china is disgusting but that sacrafice is worth it once the $50 Blu-ray players hit the market.

Too true.

[rb]

The Guardian is increasingly seeming to be the UK's version of Fox News. Jeez, picture #9 is a picture of a sandstorm. And the satellite picture at #1 looks either photochopped or a very selective day. Go to a website like terraserver.com and look at some typical satellite photos of China.

Yes, some places stink, like right next to a factory. It's the same everywhere in the world. You think Hamilton smells nice? :) However, by and large, the air there is not as bad as the pictures make it out to be. Note how most of the pictures are narrow-angled shots.


Guardian is actually considered a left wing paper , if you want Right wing try the Times (owned by same owners as Fox)

And actually perhaps the gist of the story is that China is either this year or next set to become the worlds biggest polluter

[ferkel]

People want stuff for a Dollar... China will make that stuff for ten cents .. this is the reality :(

[toalan]

Guys like me and you are to blame for all this pollution.

I design electronics, I use the cheapest place to source my parts, and to manufacture. Even after substantial shipping and import fees, china is still the cheapest place. My customers care about a quality product for a cheap price, it would be nice to support the enviroment and the north american economy by getting my parts and manufactuing done in the USA or Canada, but I can not have my cake and eat it too.

When I have more time what I am going to do is to conduct a little experiment, I am going to offer a choice of Made in china or made in north america. I will price everything so that I make the exact same amount regardless of the choice. I am interested in seeing if people are willing to put their money where their mouth is or is all the BS just lip service. I do not think people will pay more for a Made in north America product, I know I generally would not.

China is getting more expensive for manufacturing, so companies have begun to exploit poorer countries like thailand, vietnam, laos, etc... Eventually when the bottom falls out in asia, companies will move to even less developed nations like africa. Once all the cheap labour has run out wars will be fought and people will be enslaved to satisfy greed.

[CSAgent]

I'm in LA right now and their smog level's about the same. There's always a brown haze hanging over the city, esp. towards the mountains. The air feels clean but like afterawhile you begin to feel exhausted...

[teknoluv]

You are a very proud Chinese aren't you teknoluv ? I have seen you defending your motherland at every occasion possible, is there such a thing as constructive criticism ? You have to wonder when China and Canada go to war (if there's such a thing), I shudder to think which side you will be on ?
Oh man, I REALLY LOVE your post. Let me get into more details.

First off, I don't really consider myself a "Chinese". Yes, I'm of Chinese descent, and can speak and read the language fairly well; however, being born and have lived in Hong Kong (when it was still a British colony), I always have some identity crisis; and because of my leaning towards the Western culture, I consider myself a world citizen if not a stateless person. Believe it or not, I don't even think I *love* my so-called "motherland". So sorry, shot missed.

Secondly, I LOVE constructive criticism. MINE are constructive criticism. And even more importantly, MINE are informed criticism, because I KNOW a thing or two about China, UNLIKE some others who shoot a single line or two. It's actually the uninformed bashing that dwarfs the informed criticism, making the latter less effective. THAT IS WHY I always strike back on them in the first place!

And your last "question" is classic. I actually came across THIS VERY SAME QUESTION when I was like 14 years old. I was in Hong Kong back then, and one of my best friend is a "mixed" (whose father is British and mother is Chinese). And some idiots (who are Chinese) asked which side he would be on if Britain and China went to war. He gave his answer, which was Britain, because he considered himself more a British. BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT. He was like me a 14 year old then, so his answer might be stupid as well. But when I grow older (like when I was 16 or so), I began to learn that you shoudl NOT side with your so-called "motherland" blindly, but instead with the right (reasonable) side. So when China invaded Vietnam in 1979, I spoke out against it, just like I condemned U.S. bombing of Hiroshima in 1945.

By the way, don't even bother to reply to this post: I'm not actually writing these paragraphs with you in mind, they are more for others who may be confused by your seemingly sound but indeed shallow remarks.

[felix]

I spoke out against it, just like I condemned U.S. bombing of Hiroshima in 1945.

Didn't Japan invade China and USA first though? That's what I thought anyway.

[Tijuana]

I think everyone has to much pride in their country. Everyone always has to feel superior, no1 can just suck it up and say, and JUST say, ya okay my country makes alot of pollution, were obviously trying, what do you think there response will be to that? Like I said, everyone thinks that were saying China sucks, that its the worst country in the world, Canada has the seal hunt issue. As a Canadian I dont like it, personally I really dont care, so whenever I see ppl bashing Canada about the issue, I just say to myself, I dont like it, and I dont do it, so im fine. So maybe some of the chinese should be like hey, I dont pollute like that, and I dont support it. Stop with this stupid pride that makes you feel superior to everyone else.

[canabiz]

Oh man, I REALLY LOVE your post. Let me get into more details.

First off, I don't really consider myself a "Chinese". Yes, I'm of Chinese descent, and can speak and read the language fairly well; however, being born and have lived in Hong Kong (when it was still a British colony), I always have some identity crisis; and because of my leaning towards the Western culture, I consider myself a world citizen if not a stateless person. Believe it or not, I don't even think I *love* my so-called "motherland". So sorry, shot missed.

Secondly, I LOVE constructive criticism. MINE are constructive criticism. And even more importantly, MINE are informed criticism, because I KNOW a thing or two about China, UNLIKE some others who shoot a single line or two. It's actually the uninformed bashing that dwarfs the informed criticism, making the latter less effective. THAT IS WHY I always strike back on them in the first place!

And your last "question" is classic. I actually came across THIS VERY SAME QUESTION when I was like 14 years old. I was in Hong Kong back then, and one of my best friend is a "mixed" (whose father is British and mother is Chinese). And some idiots (who are Chinese) asked which side he would be on if Britain and China went to war. He gave his answer, which was Britain, because he considered himself more a British. BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT. He was like me a 14 year old then, so his answer might be stupid as well. But when I grow older (like when I was 16 or so), I began to learn that you shoudl NOT side with your so-called "motherland" blindly, but instead with the right (reasonable) side. So when China invaded Vietnam in 1979, I spoke out against it, just like I condemned U.S. bombing of Hiroshima in 1945.

By the way, don't even bother to reply to this post: I'm not actually writing these paragraphs with you in mind, they are more for others who may be confused by your seemingly sound but indeed shallow remarks.

That's fine man, at least you came out and wrote it on the record. There's nothing shallow about my remarks, nobody knows all about your stories until you actually say so.

[st7860]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism

[and or]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pwnd

[teknoluv]

Didn't Japan invade China and USA first though? That's what I thought anyway.
Yes, but that or even the Nanking Massacre did NOT justify mass murdering of innocent Japanese civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[will1087]

china's taking huge strides to curb pollution... although even with the laws in effect, enforcement of them (and western provinces) is very hard.

It's very true that a lot of provinces are still very corruption ridden and have major structural issues.

However, this current government is doing a pretty bang up job in ridding corruption and at least trying to do something about pollution.

China's per capita emissions are 6 times less that the states and 5 times less than Canada's.

On a person to person basis, we as canadians are creating 5 times more problem than a single chinese person. Not to mention the factories in China that we're directly responsible for.

Its really easy to point fingers at China but we'd just be hypocrits if we didn't demand the same of ourselves.

[BlueMax]

Those pictures of garbage in the water!! Water that's blood-red... Holy crap!!

On the other hand, it wouldn't be too hard to find the same crap in the USA, which flows up to Canada. Thanks a bunch, bawstards. :mad:

[1jVu]

People don't appreciate how true this could be. Coming to a market near you.

indeed, just like the bread with the "meat" in the center that was made with cardboard, yummm..

my dad tells my mom not to buy any food products from china all the time hahaha

[ronin893]

Guardian is actually considered a left wing paper , if you want Right wing try the Times (owned by same owners as Fox)My comment was about biased journalism, not some right-versus-left dichotomy. Let me reword it better for you. The Guardian is the left counterpart to Fox.


And actually perhaps the gist of the story is that China is either this year or next set to become the worlds biggest polluterWhat story? It was a series of photos. There is no "gist" other than your opinion. BTW, China is a long way off from becoming the world's largest polluter on a per-capita basis.




china's taking huge strides to curb pollution... although even with the laws in effect, enforcement of them (and western provinces) is very hard.

It's very true that a lot of provinces are still very corruption ridden and have major structural issues.Yes, trying to get the local governments to cooperate is a huge challenge. Link (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/070723/world/china_environment_pollution_industry)

[teknoluv]

indeed, just like the bread with the "meat" in the center that was made with cardboard, yummm..
How's your trip to Mars last week?

[BlueMax]

How's your trip to Mars last week?

Maybe I missed a "mars" thread, or YOU definitely missed the cardboard Chinese-food thread last week. :confused:

[rb]

My comment was about biased journalism, not some right-versus-left dichotomy. Let me reword it better for you. The Guardian is the left counterpart to Fox.

What story? It was a series of photos. There is no "gist" other than your opinion. BTW, China is a long way off from becoming the world's largest polluter on a per-capita basis.



Link (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/070723/world/china_environment_pollution_industry)

The story is http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2128791,00.html

Who said anything about per capita basis - largest polluter is largest polluter I said China as a nation not on a an individual basis

[bushin]

Maybe I missed a "mars" thread, or YOU definitely missed the cardboard Chinese-food thread last week. :confused:

You mean this ? http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSPEK18739620070719

[1jVu]

You mean this ? http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSPEK18739620070719

so why the mars remark

[teknoluv]

Maybe I missed a "mars" thread, or YOU definitely missed the cardboard Chinese-food thread last week. :confused:
LOL! I didn't know that you two went to Mars together.


so why the mars remark
Because those remain on earth should have read about the follow up (that the "cardboard bun" story was FAKE). But then to be fair, there could be even worse stories around that we don't know about.

[st7860]

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/8332/chineseriverwaterjgpfb0.jpg

[canabiz]

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/8332/chineseriverwaterjgpfb0.jpg

River waters ?

[lh0628]

River waters ?

No confiscated police evidence from a cocktail bar.

[teknoluv]

No confiscated police evidence from a cocktail bar.
It's actually an installation artwork of an avante-garde Chinese trio called "River Water" ("He Shui"). :rolleyes:

[ronin893]

Who said anything about per capita basis - largest polluter is largest polluter I said China as a nation not on a an individual basisUmm, I did. Having difficulty following the conversation? You added your opinion to the thread (by calling it a "gist"). I added my opinion about per-capita comparison.



http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/8332/chineseriverwaterjgpfb0.jpgAnother picture from Guardian :rolleyes: posted on May 10, 2007 -- with the caption that the water was collected by Wu Yilong, an environmental activist, according to Guardian.

A minute with Google reveals that Wu Yilong is a political dissident arrested in 1999. Do I need to say more? Okay, one more comment. Why is it that the bottles are not labelled with fundamental details such as where it was collected and when?

[st7860]

Umm, I did. Having difficulty following the conversation? You added your opinion to the thread (by calling it a "gist"). I added my opinion about per-capita comparison.


Another picture from Guardian :rolleyes: posted on May 10, 2007 -- with the caption that the water was collected by Wu Yilong, an environmental activist, according to Guardian.

A minute with Google reveals that Wu Yilong is a political dissident arrested in 1999. Do I need to say more? Okay, one more comment. Why is it that the bottles are not labelled with fundamental details such as where it was collected and when?

do you still carry your party card with you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China

[rb]

Umm, I did. Having difficulty following the conversation? You added your opinion to the thread (by calling it a "gist"). I added my opinion about per-capita comparison.


Another picture from Guardian :rolleyes: posted on May 10, 2007 -- with the caption that the water was collected by Wu Yilong, an environmental activist, according to Guardian.

A minute with Google reveals that Wu Yilong is a political dissident arrested in 1999. Do I need to say more? Okay, one more comment. Why is it that the bottles are not labelled with fundamental details such as where it was collected and when?


No political dissident says it all - ie someone who doesn't agree with the party line - heaven forbid , he must be a nutcase

[king_george]

Umm, I did. Having difficulty following the conversation? You added your opinion to the thread (by calling it a "gist"). I added my opinion about per-capita comparison.


Another picture from Guardian :rolleyes: posted on May 10, 2007 -- with the caption that the water was collected by Wu Yilong, an environmental activist, according to Guardian.

A minute with Google reveals that Wu Yilong is a political dissident arrested in 1999. Do I need to say more? Okay, one more comment. Why is it that the bottles are not labelled with fundamental details such as where it was collected and when?

Hey looks like someone cleaned out my fridge...:D

But really I think this photo is for shock value. Putting labels and making observations and photos is for the researchers, not a bunch of amateurs. I'd love to find out where the coloured stuff comes from.

PS what does being a political dissident have to do with a water pollution demonstration? :confused: Pollution is pollution no matter who shows it (if this is real pollution of course). Are you sure it's the same guy here as the dissident?

[teknoluv]

A minute with Google reveals that Wu Yilong is a political dissident arrested in 1999. Do I need to say more?
Well, I don't know much about this Wu Yilong guy, but your implication that a political dissident's words are not trustworthy (if I haven't got it wrong) is a bit off. As long as it's not coming from Falun Gong (they are famous for badmouthing the Chinese Communist Party at whatever cost, even by fabricating stories, a.k.a. LIES), I wouldn't rule anything out outright.

[maebach]

People don't appreciate how true this could be. Coming to a market near you.

no thanks

[ronin893]

Hey looks like someone cleaned out my fridge...:D

But really I think this photo is for shock value. Putting labels and making observations and photos is for the researchers, not a bunch of amateurs. I'd love to find out where the coloured stuff comes from.

PS what does being a political dissident have to do with a water pollution demonstration? :confused: Pollution is pollution no matter who shows it (if this is real pollution of course). Are you sure it's the same guy here as the dissident?Given that there's 1.3 billion people in China, I suppose it is possible to have two or more persons with the same name (especially transliterated names). However, what are the likelihood of two persons with the same name who is protesting against the government? Plus, the guy in question is not there during the photo op. According to Guardian, it's his wife that's standing behind the bottles. I'm guessing she's the one with the angry look on her face. Either it's the same guy and he's still in jail or it's a different guy who's in hiding with a very p1ssed off wife. :cheesygri

The Wu Yilong who was arrested in 1999 founded a political party challenging the CCP's authority. I'm mocking Guardian for calling him an environmental activist. And, no, Wu wasn't trying to form the Green Party.


Well, I don't know much about this Wu Yilong guy, but your implication that a political dissident's words are not trustworthy (if I haven't got it wrong) is a bit off. As long as it's not coming from Falun Gong (they are famous for badmouthing the Chinese Communist Party at whatever cost, even by fabricating stories, a.k.a. LIES), I wouldn't rule anything out outright.Mr. Wu is not present in the photo. The bottles were brought to the attention of the foreign press by Wu's wife. She tells everyone that her husband collected these "samples". So we have here two possible scenarios.

First: Her husband collected the water prior to 1999, did not label the bottles, and the wife kept the dirty stinking bottles for 8 or more years, and then brought out into public. (She must be waiting for the water to age to perfection.)

Second: The wife has an axe to grind with the government due to her husband's incarceration. She fabricates evidence to humiliate and try to draw international condemnation on the government.

I vote for the second scenario.

I don't rule out what dissidents say merely because they are dissidents. You have to look at the facts objectively. I agree with you on the Falun Gong thing. They were the first group which made me skeptical of dissidents. Another famous lying dissident is Ahmed Chalabi who was feeding lies to the CIA about Saddam's regime.


PS: Here is the link to the original Guardian photo. Feel free to analyze it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2007/may/10/1?picture=329825171