Thinking of supplement: Whey or Creatine?

[fuc847]

I originally was planning to start trying creatine couple months back, but i did about a week research. There werent ALOT of problems with it per se. But i DID hear personally that there are some longterm minor organ side-effects. And that's with proper dosage.

I havent really researched on whey, but it seems to me that all it is , is processed protein. But still.. i wanna know from personally experience of ANY effects (good and bad) of it..

i was thinking of buying the "Webber Naturals PowerWhey (low carb Lite Vanilla)" in London Drugs. Anyone got any reviews on this brand..? I know that brand makes a big difference in supplements.. so..

so post up! :)

and btw, here's some interesting quotes/excerpts i found in searching thru RFD.


I've been told by doctors that taking any amount of whey would cause serious long term illness. I've also been told by some doctors that whey is good for the body and can fight illness in the long term (boosts the immune system.)

Lets add to some confusion: (all from webmd.com)
Creatine protects against brain damage.
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/18/167...C-9531713CA348}

Creatine causes muscle damage (scroll down)
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/18/167...C-9531713CA348}

Creatine appears to be safe
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/17/167...C-9531713CA348}

No doubt that creatine is safe
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/17/167...C-9531713CA348}

Creatine may cause diarrhea, nausea, cramping, muscle strain, dizziness, dehydration, and even liver and kidney damage.
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/18/167...C-9531713CA348}

O and kinda offtopic here, but personally, I wouldnt wanna take too much whey if I DO buy it. Like, prolly 10-15 grams when i DO workout. So should i take it b4 or after I workout? Or should I take 5 grams b4 workout and then 10 after? I weigh 150lbs. skinny bastard.. yeh...

[spart]

I'm pretty sure 5g of protein (or do you mean 5g or protein supplement? cuz then that'd be even less protein) here and there won't make much of a difference.

30g+ of additional protein per day might make a noticable difference, 10g probably won't.

I haven't worked out in a while, plus I'm not the most informed person on topic, but I'd probably just stick with whey supplements.

Also, you should probably take the protein every day, not just the days you work out. The off-days are when you're actually building muscle... extra protein will help.

10-15g of protein, only on workout days, would probably be a waste of money IMO.

[yiggy]

whey protein is not bad for you. if you are working out, you should really take whey protein on a regular basis.

as for creatine, i used it for a few mths, no side effects, but i'm sure a few mths is not long enough draw definite conclusions. but if you are young and healthy, creatine could really help you. and if you do the loading and cycle properly, (6 mths on, 6 mths off), it should be ok.

i did my own research before i began using it, and from what i gathered, i decided to use it.

[therock911]

well I never heard anything bad about whey powder, just a couple of my friends took/ are taking creatine and 3 one of them when he goes to pee, small chunks come out (of creatine?) i dunno but it happened when he took creatine and has stopped since then :wacko:

[KennyX]

I've taken both before, and havent noticed anything.

Whey Protein is great post workouts (with a bit of dex for the insulin spike).

As for Creatine though... I stopped taking it because I really didnt notice it doing anything.
You drink a lot of water, and you end up feeling bloated and having to take a piss ever10-15 mins. I think that taking creatine is supposed to give you more energy or something when you workout... but I never noticed it.
Personally I think Creatine gives the person more of a mental edge rather than doing anything real to the body.

[synaptech]

This goes back a few years, but I had excellent results using creatine. However I read too many possible problems with prolonged use, especially related to the liver. So I haven't taken it since. I was using the protien powder, but not consistent enough to compare...

[fuc847]

yeh, whey is prolly ok, now that i researched more. But creatine is especially bad for young ppl. (17-20) in some articles i read.

[trini]

These things are not good for you.They get you crazy and impotent.
Consult your physician for some advice.

Yes i know its a give or take situation on the individual.

[fuc847]

well, i wouldnt go THAT far saying protein will make you impotent lol, same goes for crazy :P

well.. prolly 20% of the male population in North america takes Whey. so that's like several million.....

[Xirhyn]

My brother takes Whey everyday with oatmeal, 3 times I think.

If you take whey protein everyday and workout you will get flatulence. But this is a side effect for others I guess, not you.

[spart]

Originally posted by Xirhyn@Nov 3 2003, 01:47 AM
My brother takes Whey everyday with oatmeal, 3 times I think.

If you take whey protein everyday and workout you will get flatulence. But this is a side effect for others I guess, not you.
LOL

[bigredlemon]

Here's what i know:
Whey: go for it. It's a better source of protein than any meat you eat because you'll get the protein much faster into your body, and it doesn't take as much to digest it gram per gram of protein as compared to meat.

Creatine: if you skip the loading phase and just do 5g a day you'll be fine. If you are paranoid about your health then you can cycle it (few weeks/months on, few weeks/months off.)

Eating oatmeal is great if you are a hardcore bodybuilder but i have a feeling you aren't there yet. Good for you though.

Ps. if you're going to take a quote, be sure to attribute it. ;)

[thomas997]

Creatine will make you faster/stronger etc.. some studies say like 10% improvement in stamina.. more in strength. This was after a week of a fairly large dose a day I believe..


But then when you go off the stuff, you get really weak. Weaker than you were when you started.. which sucks because it means your dependant on the stuff..

There was a marketplace on creatine.. some lady was taking it then stopped... maybe she was taking a larger dose than any of you though no idea..

:/

I wouldnt risk it, whey protein should be fine though. As long as you dont go crazy with it :)

[bigredlemon]

if you take too high of a dose of creatine for too long a period of time, your own body would have decreased its production of creatine itself since it no longer needs to. (less stress on your body anyway). So if you stop of course the creatine production will be lower than before (and only temporarily.)

The same thing happens for any drug, and even vitamins. But no one tells you not to eat carrots because it contains too much betacarotean do they?

The draw back only happens _if_ you stop, and only for short periods anyway.

[miss_swan]

Both worked for me very well.

Creatine, in particular, was awesome. After being on Creatine for a couple of weeks I began experiencing amazing pumps and increases in strength. It was great ... then I got lazy and rested on my laurels and stopped taking it. Or something to that effect.

I was very busy with school at the time so that also factored into my behavior.

One thing for sure with Creatine is that you should be consistent or don't bother at all. You would be wasting your money IMO.

[B40]

Originally posted by yiggy@Nov 3 2003, 12:07 AM
whey protein is not bad for you. if you are working out, you should really take whey protein on a regular basis.

as for creatine, i used it for a few mths, no side effects, but i'm sure a few mths is not long enough draw definite conclusions. but if you are young and healthy, creatine could really help you. and if you do the loading and cycle properly, (6 mths on, 6 mths off), it should be ok.

i did my own research before i began using it, and from what i gathered, i decided to use it.
Supposedly whey protein absorbs faster, which is why you should take it after you work out....

Creatine has only been available for the past 10 years or so, so the long term or effects of usage over 10 years are still not known....

The thing about creatine cycles is if you go into 3 different GNC stores, they'll all tell you a different cycle....

[B40]

One more note on creatine - it's found in fish I believe, but in order to get the equivalent of taking it from supplements, you'd have to eat a barrel of fish...

How long have you been working out? I wouldn't suggest any supplements until about 4-6 months after you've been working out seriously....

Don't think creatine is some magic powder that will make you get bigger...you have to put the work in....

Personally, I take whey protein and rely on my own drive and determination rather than creatine B)

[fuc847]

i've been working out since the past 2 years. I've been quite serous the first year, maybe 4 times a week at a gym. But recently i'e gotten lazier , going only 2 times a week, b/c I'm not really seeing much improvements in my body :( I've gained 7 lbs (of muscle i hope) since these 2 years of workout -_-

[NLI10D]

creatine does give you a bit more extra energy and bulk (I suspect its from all the water ur drinking) and less recovery time.

[fitbrit]

Creatine: I've been using it for several years now, with one month on, 2 to 3 months off. For me the results are noticable within 4 days! I generally bulk up quickly anyway, but creatine gets me lean too. Protein powders I only take as meal replacements when I'm too busy. Nothing beats real food, if you eat healthily that is.
Creatine side effects include kidney damage if you don't take a lot of water to go with it. Generally, I always took one third to half the recommended dose and it works well for me, but then again I have a natural advantage to most guys. I do find that I ahve more energy, am stronger and recover faster on creatine. Playing squash on creatine is great!
While I am off creatine, I try to work out hard for the last few weeks before I start taking it again. That way, I reach a good level of fitness and then get a further boost before or at the natural plateau.
Fitbrit, personal trainer and research biologit.

[B40]

Originally posted by fuc847@Nov 3 2003, 04:05 PM
i've been working out since the past 2 years. I've been quite serous the first year, maybe 4 times a week at a gym. But recently i'e gotten lazier , going only 2 times a week, b/c I'm not really seeing much improvements in my body :( I've gained 7 lbs (of muscle i hope) since these 2 years of workout -_-

Seems like you hit a so called "peak" or "plateau"

My advice to you is to increase your weights and do less reps, and start taking whey protein to start. Hold off on the creatine for now..

[bigstar*]

when i first started out, i took creatine improperly which caused side effects of diahrea and cramps. I think it was the quality of the creatine that contributed to my side effects (GNC brand- you get what you pay for). Recently I bought EAS creatine (quite expensive may i add). Alot more finer and dissolves well in liquids. I can't really say that I've gotten bigger from taking creatine but your muscles will have a "balloon effect"...not lean looking or "cut" that most people want.

Protein helps a lot if you take it right after your workouts. Doesn't make me feel as sore.

I'm the type that can not gain weight. I eat like a horse. Took weight gainers, creatine, and protein. I went up 5lbs in total over 2 years. BUT I've gotten a lot stronger. I can bench 1.5 times my body weight.

Good luck with your workout. Consistency is the secret.

[fuc847]

yeh i know.. consistency... which comes mainly from motivation.. and motivation is HARD :P i bet u all feel "damn, i dun wanna workout today, maybe i'll do it at night, but then u dont do it" :P

Question: Anyone know if Webber's brand for PowerWhey is good? I dont know where else to buy. I'm getting these at Longdon Drugs for $15 for 500 grams. am I getting ripped off...? or..?

[3-putt]

Creatine has side-effects, is expensive and you cannot stay on it forever. Stick with a balanced diet, with some more protein if you want to put on some muscle mass. A balanced diet you can keep for life. I like chocolate milk right after a workout. Lots o nutrients, and the sugar helps the body absorb it. Tastes good. Does the body good.

[SAS-1]

A question about taking protein supplement after your workout. I heard you should take it within 20 minutes of your workout. I usually do cardio at the end of my workout for 20 minutes. Should I be taking it before I do my cardio? Or is it 20 minutes from the point of all physical activity stopping?

[Xirhyn]

Buy your whey from sndcananda.com.

Take the protein after cardio. Your supposed to get carbs into your system after workout too, even before protein.

Also, doing cardio after workout doesn't maximize muscle growth in case that your main goal..

[MaxPower2000]

The problem with nutrition is that you will find just as many arguments for something as against. Use your own judgement, and don't forget that creatine (or other substances) can't be worse than smoking and drinking.

Creatine: Before you take it, don't just read on what it does, read about what it actually is. Your body creates it naturally and stores it in the muscles. What they've discovered is that your muscle can actually hold more than what your body creates. Thus the birth of the supplement. People use it when they work out because it helps your muscles hold water. So most people experience 'growth' but that's only because of the extra water in their muscles. As soon as they stop, the water will leave as well and their are back where they started. But with that being said, water in the muscles is a good thing because it helps distribute vitamines & minerals in your system. Also, your muscles are mostly made of water, so it can give you a bit more strength to 'push a little harder' and this is why you *might* grow from using it. You should probably do your exercises to failure for this to work (I'm not sure).

As for whey, it's a dairy product. It's the part that's left over after they make cheese. So will it kill you? Only if milk does. But protein, ANY protein is hard on your kidneys. That's why you have to drink tons of water when you're on protein. If you take extra protein and your start to flatulate, that probably means that you are consuming too much. Take a bit less, then increase the amount of protein slowly. Read up on the difference between whey and whey isolate.

But with that being said, if you want to gain weight, eat carbs, lots of it. People will argue that you can get 'fat' this way which is true, but only if you are not exercising enough. Even if you are trying to bulk up, you should still do a bit of cardio. It will help you keep off the excess fat while bulking up as well as give you energy. The trick is to keep track of your body fat as you work out, and if it seems to be increasing too much, do more cardio or cut back a little on the carbs. You wanna bulk up? Take a protein shake before going to bed. You build a lot of muscle while sleeping, and since you don't eat for 8+ hours during the night, your body takes energy from muscle & fat if you don't have anything in your stomach. BTW, you were talking about 10 grams of protein (or whatever), bah, a piece of fish/meat has at least 30g, don't be afraid of it. :)

Eat 6 meals a day, each one balanced with carbs, fat & protein.

I did this for a year, and I did gain a very noticeable amount of muscle mass.

[TrevorK]

Originally posted by MaxPower2000@Nov 4 2003, 07:05 PM
The problem with nutrition is that you will find just as many arguments for something as against. Use your own judgement, and don't forget that creatine (or other substances) can't be worse than smoking and drinking.

Creatine: Before you take it, don't just read on what it does, read about what it actually is. Your body creates it naturally and stores it in the muscles. What they've discovered is that your muscle can actually hold more than what your body creates. Thus the birth of the supplement. People use it when they work out because it helps your muscles hold water. So most people experience 'growth' but that's only because of the extra water in their muscles. As soon as they stop, the water will leave as well and their are back where they started. But with that being said, water in the muscles is a good thing because it helps distribute vitamines & minerals in your system. Also, your muscles are mostly made of water, so it can give you a bit more strength to 'push a little harder' and this is why you *might* grow from using it. You should probably do your exercises to failure for this to work (I'm not sure).

As for whey, it's a dairy product. It's the part that's left over after they make cheese. So will it kill you? Only if milk does. But protein, ANY protein is hard on your kidneys. That's why you have to drink tons of water when you're on protein. If you take extra protein and your start to flatulate, that probably means that you are consuming too much. Take a bit less, then increase the amount of protein slowly. Read up on the difference between whey and whey isolate.

But with that being said, if you want to gain weight, eat carbs, lots of it. People will argue that you can get 'fat' this way which is true, but only if you are not exercising enough. Even if you are trying to bulk up, you should still do a bit of cardio. It will help you keep off the excess fat while bulking up as well as give you energy. The trick is to keep track of your body fat as you work out, and if it seems to be increasing too much, do more cardio or cut back a little on the carbs. You wanna bulk up? Take a protein shake before going to bed. You build a lot of muscle while sleeping, and since you don't eat for 8+ hours during the night, your body takes energy from muscle & fat if you don't have anything in your stomach. BTW, you were talking about 10 grams of protein (or whatever), bah, a piece of fish/meat has at least 30g, don't be afraid of it. :)

Eat 6 meals a day, each one balanced with carbs, fat & protein.

I did this for a year, and I did gain a very noticeable amount of muscle mass.
Isn't casein the protein associated with dairy?

[B40]

Originally posted by Xirhyn@Nov 4 2003, 02:05 PM
Buy your whey from sndcananda.com.

Take the protein after cardio. Your supposed to get carbs into your system after workout too, even before protein.

Also, doing cardio after workout doesn't maximize muscle growth in case that your main goal..
Yeah I would do cardio before as a warmup.....

[MaxPower2000]

Originally posted by TrevorK@Nov 4 2003, 02:26 PM
Isn't casein the protein associated with dairy?
Yes, but there are two proteins in milk.

http://www.wheyoflife.org/facts.html#2


Q: What Are Whey Proteins?

A: Whey proteins are high quality and nutritious dairy proteins. Milk contains two primary proteins: casein and whey protein. When cheese is produced the liquid whey separates from the 'curd' or casein. The whey proteins are then separated from the liquid whey and purified to various concentrations of whey protein. The graphs below provide more detail on the composition of milk.

[zeroburn]

www.bodybuilding.com

goto this site for all the answers you need.

For you I'd suggest this. Take 2 weeks off from working out right now. If your very lean right now and want to bulk up start eating a lot more calories. Go on 8-12 week cycles. Basically to build muscle need the calories. So bulk up then cut losing the fat.

I'd be taking whey protein to make sure you get about 1 gram of protein/lb of body weight.

Glutamine is a great supplement to take to help retain your muscle mass.

Lastly a great multi vitamine is great. I dont like GNC but the mega man vitamin they sell is great.

[charger]

You guys are going to have trouble finding ANY accurate information on creatine. A lot of these so called "studies" are actually done in subsidiary labs of the companies that make and sell the stuff. My dad is a doctor and here is what he tells me about creatine


1) All the build up of bulk is just water. When you stop taking the creatine the water is simple reabsorbed. This effect is not really that effective, nor is it healthy.


2) Creatine is naturally created in the body. When you take it your body goes into shock and stops making it on its own. Thus when you stop taking it your body goes into withdrawal.


Creatine is mildly toxic, hence the effects on your liver

[trini]

So whats the verdict on this fitness experts.
Yur take now Daisy.

Why i'm asking is that i drink alot of Nutrament its a so called meal replacement but i just like how it tastes and can take it with me around unlike milk it wont go bad.Unless shoppers has one similar that go on sale for about 14.00 for 24 cans.

If there is a whey or protein/creatine item or particular brand that actually tastes good then i might try it.
Thanks and feel free to move to the sports section.

[bdckr]

well I never heard anything bad about whey powder, just a couple of my friends took/ are taking creatine and 3 one of them when he goes to pee, small chunks come out (of creatine?) i dunno but it happened when he took creatine and has stopped since then :wacko:

That's the clap (http://www.unm.edu/~shc1/gonorrhea.html), not whey.

Protein in the right mix with carbohydrates can be effective pre- and post-workout (http://www.finertia.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1).


Creatine has only been available for the past 10 years or so, so the long term or effects of usage over 10 years are still not known....

Creatine has been around a lot longer than 10 years (http://www.finertia.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1083&). People have been aware of the possibilities of creatine supplementation since the early 1900s (http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/creatine.html). I'll agree with you, though, that good long-term studies haven't been done.

[kloan]

My experience with Creatine, when taking 5g a day, was that my muscles would 'baloon', usually the next day after a workout. From what I've read, it's mostly water retention. It's also very dehydrating, so it's hard on the kidneys. It allows more nitrogen storage in the muscles, so it's great for 'bursts' of strength, which allows you to lift more.. but the most recent time I was taking it, I really didn't notice much help from it, so I stopped taking it, and won't take it ever again. I prefer to go all on my own, so I know that what I'm doing is what's working.

Whey protein is essential if you're lifting weights, because you need 1g protein/lb of body weight (at least) if you want to see any gain in muscle mass. 20-30 mins after a workout is the time to take it, whey isolate being the quickest absorbed. I drink 40g of protein after a workout, and every night I drink 40g before bed.

[Dakx]

Just my 2 cents.. I wouldnt bother using suppliments until youve been working out seriously for about a year. Get used to the training, and do more research. If your 150 now.. you should be able to gain about 30lbs in a year.. at around 180 to 190 start using suppliments if you want to bulk up more.

[NLI10D]

creatine is mostly about water retention and burst of energy so you could work out longer. however with that being said, you're suppose to cycle the use. if you dont then you can pretty much kiss the kidneys goodbye. creatine is suppose to be used before the start of the workout, so you could work out longer and more intense. not all creatines are created equal as the old adage goes you get what you pay for. the v12 is more expensive than the other brands because water retention is less compared to the other brands. proteins and the other stuff you take after workout because they help build up the micro-tears you've created in your muscle while working out faster and bigger (bulking up).