Fighting speeding ticket advice

[RLP06]

Hi, I just got a ticket this morning for going 80 in a 60 zone, I was wondering what is the best way to fight this. I really don't want my insurance to go up. I've been doing some research, and there seem to be a lot of companies that fight these tickets, can anyone share their experiences?

[Chr1s]

Hi, I just got a ticket this morning for going 80 in a 60 zone, I was wondering what is the best way to fight this. I really don't want my insurance to go up. I've been doing some research, and there seem to be a lot of companies that fight these tickets, can anyone share their experiences?

So pay attention to the road signs and don't speed.

Good luck fighting it.

[mau108]

York or Toronto ?

[Menace]

There are many threads on this topic.

Go to the court and hopefully you get lesser charge without losing points

[bizzmanager]

-Request disclosure from the crown no later than 120 days before trial.
-Officer doesn't show(You win)
-Disclosure not provided(You win)
-Disclosure provided on the day of trial, you must motion for re-trial in light of new evidence provided be crown witness.
Set an awkward date and time.

New date.
-Officer doesn't show(You win)
-Trial is outside of Crown Policy Manual guidelines (You win)
-Prepare cross examination for officer that will prove inconsistency.(You win)

I would not recommend going to cross examination point unless you are very confident. Do not used any x-copper or ticket fighting service. They DO NOT fight the ticket. All they do is walk in and if the cop is there, they plea. Meaning they approach the crown and say
"Hey Sam, I'm here for Mr. Smith, 80 in a 60. What can we do."
Sam(crown): "Well, Lets go no points, lower the fine to $100 and call it a day."
The end result is: You are still charged for something like 10 over and you insurance will ding you.

[pfbmgd]

-Request disclosure from the crown no later than 120 days before trial.
-Officer doesn't show(You win)
-Disclosure not provided(You win)
-Disclosure provided on the day of trial, you must motion for re-trial in light of new evidence provided be crown witness.
Set an awkward date and time.

New date.
-Officer doesn't show(You win)
-Trial is outside of Crown Policy Manual guidelines (You win)
-Prepare cross examination for officer that will prove inconsistency.(You win)

I would not recommend going to cross examination point unless you are very confident. Do not used any x-copper or ticket fighting service. They DO NOT fight the ticket. All they do is walk in and if the cop is there, they plea. Meaning they approach the crown and say
"Hey Sam, I'm here for Mr. Smith, 80 in a 60. What can we do."
Sam(crown): "Well, Lets go no points, lower the fine to $100 and call it a day."
The end result is: You are still charged for something like 10 over and you insurance will ding you.


Excellent advice.

[RLP06]

York or Toronto ?

Toronto, does it make a difference?


Btw, thanks for people who left advice, and for people who don't have anything helpful to say please don't reply instead of "don't speed and watch the signs" its a bit too late for that... and I'm sure you have gone at least 51 on a 50 zone, so don't pass judgement

[BartBandy]

Agreed. This should be stickied.

[mau108]

Toronto, does it make a difference?


Btw, thanks for people who left advice, and for people who don't have anything helpful to say please don't reply instead of "don't speed and watch the signs" its a bit too late for that... and I'm sure you have gone at least 51 on a 50 zone, so don't pass judgement

ya get a court date....most likely you can 11b it if the above does not work.

[RLP06]

ya get a court date....most likely you can 11b it if the above does not work.
Thats the 8 month rule right?

Thanks for the advice.

Do you know whether they have a huge backlog for court dates?

[Menace]

1 year is the normal period.




Do you know whether they have a huge backlog for court dates?

[bizzmanager]

If the court date is set for a period greater than 8 months from the original infraction date as long as you have not postponed for any reason other than disclosure delay. You can use the Charter of Rights and Freedoms have been violated.

At least 15 days before the trial, file a form called "Notice of Constitutional Question" or something similar (FORM 4F, Courts of Justice Act). The purpose of this form is to give notice to the Crown that you wish to dispute the charge using Charter arguments. After you file the form, wait for the trial. At trial, when you are asked to enter a plea, state that
"I ask that the charge be stayed on the grounds that my right to a prompt trial as guaranteed by the Charter has been violated, through no fault of my own, and that this unreasonable and undue delay has caused my inability to prepare a full answer to the charge and my inability to recall the details in the alleged offense due to such delay, and that such delay has caused a great deal of anxiety and stress.". After you said the above statement, the court should dismiss the charge.

[pintobean]

If the court date is set for a period greater than 8 months from the original infraction date as long as you have not postponed for any reason other than disclosure delay. You can use the Charter of Rights and Freedoms have been violated.

At least 15 days before the trial, file a form called "Notice of Constitutional Question" or something similar (FORM 4F, Courts of Justice Act). The purpose of this form is to give notice to the Crown that you wish to dispute the charge using Charter arguments. After you file the form, wait for the trial. At trial, when you are asked to enter a plea, state that
"I ask that the charge be stayed on the grounds that my right to a prompt trial as guaranteed by the Charter has been violated, through no fault of my own, and that this unreasonable and undue delay has caused my inability to prepare a full answer to the charge and my inability to recall the details in the alleged offense due to such delay, and that such delay has caused a great deal of anxiety and stress.". After you said the above statement, the court should dismiss the charge.

Hahaha.
In an ideal world, this is how things would work.
In the real world, you'd probably be out in hallway paying your fine within ten minutes of saying the above.

First things first, the unreasonable delay period is no longer 8 months...it is now widely accepted as being more than 12 months. In fact, I would say that if you try to argue 11b for anything less than 13 months, you're likely going to lose unless the JP is having a good day.

Secondly, many JPs are requiring defendants to actually prove that the delay in getting the charge to trial has caused them undue hardship; it is not enough to simply say that you've been suffering from anxiety and stress, you actually have to show this (i.e. with doctor's reports etc...).

Thirdly, it is untrue that you will automatically win if the cop does not show up for trial. I have personally seen cases where the cop was not there and the JP allowed the prosecutor to adjourn the trial to another date. In at least one of these cases, the defendant complained about the adjournment and the JP replied that since she would have allowed him to have an adjournment if he had requested it, then it was only fair to provide the prosecutor with the same benefit.

Finally, the advice of "set an awkward date and time" in the case of an adjournment is totally useless. The courts will always set trials on dates that are convenient for their witnesses (the cops). You don't have to believe me on this, but I invite you to try and re-schedule your court date for Christmas Eve and see how far you get.

The bottom line is that the internet is full of many rumours and half-truths. Do not take everything you read on here as fact. The best way to prepare your case would be to actually go to the court, sit in on some trials and see what other people are saying to win their cases (it is also beneficial to see what other people are saying that leads to them being convicted). I would also recommend searching the internet for the text of cases in your jurisdiction that had similar facts.

[maniacshopper]

go to court, plead it.

If you get a conviction, it will affect your insurance rates. No matter what anyone says about 10kph over, its still a conviction. The insurance sees it and uses it against you.

[ar_ken]

Seeing all these arguements using Sec. 11(b) of the Charter, I just thought... I didn't think Pierre Elliot Trudeau introduced this Charter for people to drive like an idiot and get off the hook..........................

Just a thought.

[bizzmanager]

The Charter exists for a reason. There is no reason why a Judge would discriminate against someone. And yes having proof of your hardship would be golden. Keeping in mind that not all Judges rule the same day to day.
I've never had to use the Charter to get off because in the last half dozen tickets the crowns witness was a no show, disclosure was not provided(no evidence).

The vast majority of the time the officer or crown views your request for disclosure as a joke. The last 6 times I've requested, 4 were no evidence at all (Win), 1 was provided on the day of trial which was only a photocopy of the outside jacket of the notebook. (Judge dismissed). 1 was automatically withdrawn for lack of evidence without me even going to court.

[WHO]

Yeah, very long ago I tried to use that Charter thing (had been at last 18 months since the offense) and the prosecutor just said something like "I've never heard of that before" and the Judge agreed with him (figures...). So the Judge told me to go on with my defense, which I did and I won anyway. I was fighting a failure to stop at a stop sign. I just told the Judge I had stopped, and took pictures of that corner showing the bushes would've prevented the cop from having a full, clear view. Judge asked me "do you swear in front of the Crown that you stopped?" I said yeah I swear and he said OK, benefit of doubt, good day.

You're usually better off fighting technicalities then believing the court will respect your rights.

Last ticket I fought and also won was for a red light. The offense read "not stopping before the white line when facing a red light". I told the Judge my 4 wheels were already passed the white line before the light turned yellow, let alone red. If my wheels are past the line, there is no way I could've "stopped before the white line". Technicality, if the offense read "you blew a red light", then I guess I would've been screwed. Would've used the "I swear before the Crown" thing ;)

[65505201]

Seeing all these arguements using Sec. 11(b) of the Charter, I just thought... I didn't think Pierre Elliot Trudeau introduced this Charter for people to drive like an idiot and get off the hook..........................

Just a thought.

Meh, considering that the government has a financial incentive in issuing tickets, I have no problems with it.

[Swanson]

I went to the Ontario Traffic Tickets @ 401 & Markham rd to fight my ticket, they don't have any "we win or it's free" policy, the guy just told me, we can get you off, 100% no points, no fine, and they did. I've since changed insurance companies, added new cars etc etc...and never once have they asked about the ticket. It was a 15 or 20km over, i paid $200 something bucks. I don't have the time or patience to fight the ticket myself...

A friend of mine also went to them (30 or 40 over), They told him they could get it reduced to 10 over for sure, but not necessarily completely off, he still went ahead, they ended up getting the entire ticket dropped...

I would drop in to talk to one of the ppl there to see what they can do, and how much it will cost..