LED light bulbs.

[UrbanPoet]

Anyone use LED light bulbs?
aRe there any LED bulbs out there that can actually light up a room?

Right now i have one in my upstairs hallway. We leave it on 24/7 since the bulb only uses 1 watt of energy!

[corrupt123]

How's it work?

There is/was a GU10 LED bulb, it was pretty good for directional lighting, lit up within about 8-10 feet. Thing is, it cost like $25 and didn't put out nearly as much light as a regular GU10 - so it's not good as primary lighting.

The only other LED lighting I've seen is under cabinet stuff, where it works pretty good.

[st7860]

this led bulb replaces a 70 watt regular bulb

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/02/led_bulb_replac.php

[jbad]

this led bulb replaces a 70 watt regular bulb

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/02/led_bulb_replac.php


They are a little confused on the numbers though.. a 70 watt bulb would output between 700 - 750 lumens easy.. the bulb on treehugger says 590 lumens.. which is roughly a 60 watt bulb..

not sure how much that is.. ive seen some bulbs on earthled.com which is their 10 watt par20 lamp for as high as $90 US .. the same ones are on http://www.insaini.com for $60 CDN .. and they are located in the GTA ..

i replied on another post but ive replaced all the GU10 pots in our house with the bulbs from insaini.com .. the SS33 GU10.. we paid $25 each which was quantity discounted and apparently now they are on clearance for $20 each.. they arent as bright as their XE33 but they are decent and do light our halls and living rooms nicely.. great for evening lighting.. they use 3 watts but output as much as a 20 watt halogen.

[bluebye]

Is this thread dead? I would like to hear some more experiences with LED light conversions and get some more info as well

[Icedawn]

did a huge whack of research on this topic last month. Ultimately decided to wait until the technology improves. Found that the light emitted still just doesn't cut it for day to day use. Hoping within the next year or so I'll meet my standards.

[brunes]

did a huge whack of research on this topic last month. Ultimately decided to wait until the technology improves. Found that the light emitted still just doesn't cut it for day to day use. Hoping within the next year or so I'll meet my standards.

I would have to agree. Paying $60 for a 9W LED bulb vs. $2 for a 13W CFL with equivalent lumen output? I will take the CFL, thanks.

My $58 saved allows me to invest my money in other green initiatives that likely benefit far more than a measly 4W savings over CFL.

[Icedawn]

I would have to agree. Paying $60 for a 9W LED bulb vs. $2 for a 13W CFL with equivalent lumen output? I will take the CFL, thanks.

My $58 saved allows me to invest my money in other green initiatives that likely benefit far more than a measly 4W savings over CFL.

I wish I could switch to CFL alas... stuck with all these 50 watt mr 16 halogen pot lights that I want to replace. Just my main living areas (living/dining) uses up 950 watts!

[champlinD]

I wish I could switch to CFL alas... stuck with all these 50 watt mr 16 halogen pot lights that I want to replace. Just my main living areas (living/dining) uses up 950 watts!

Let me guess, you are not paying for electricity.

[UrbanPoet]

I find that the $10 1watt LED warm white from homedepot works well.
I use it in my upstairs hallway. Its actually good enough to light up the hall way with a dim warm light.


Let me guess, you are not paying for electricity.

some fancy condos/houses have those type of recessed lighting...

[UrbanPoet]

I wish I could switch to CFL alas... stuck with all these 50 watt mr 16 halogen pot lights that I want to replace. Just my main living areas (living/dining) uses up 950 watts!

theres MR16 CFLs

[Icedawn]

Let me guess, you are not paying for electricity.

no.. I am, that's why it kills me... and also why I put so much effort into finding LED replacements.


theres MR16 CFLs

!?!?!?! this I have never heard of? interesting... off to google about. thanks! I just hope its not something that will protrude from the socket, I really liked the LED mr16s primarily since they had the same form factor as regular halogen bulbs.

(EDIT - Any chance you know where to buy them from Canada? Browsing around and its hard to find a good Cdn site)
(EDIT 2 - nevermind, found http://ask.metafilter.com/56681/Where-to-find-energy-efficient-GU10-bulbs-in-Canada)
(EDIT 3 - nevermind, none of them sell mr 16 bulbs). Back to asking for help?

[champlinD]

no.. I am, that's why it kills me... and also why I put so much effort into finding LED replacements.
...
...


Let me guess, you like to waste energy and MONEY. call +1 416-736-0447.

[Yumeji]

!?!?!?! this I have never heard of? interesting... off to google about. thanks! I just hope its not something that will protrude from the socket, I really liked the LED mr16s primarily since they had the same form factor as regular halogen bulbs.

(EDIT - Any chance you know where to buy them from Canada? Browsing around and its hard to find a good Cdn site)
(EDIT 2 - nevermind, found http://ask.metafilter.com/56681/Where-to-find-energy-efficient-GU10-bulbs-in-Canada)
(EDIT 3 - nevermind, none of them sell mr 16 bulbs). Back to asking for help?
Depends which MR16...

I found some CFL GU10's at Rona that were energy saving (doesn't have the funnel shape like the halogen GU10s, more cylindrical). They were about $5-6 a pop.

I also found a website for 5W CFL GU5.3's in the US that can ship to Canada: [link] (http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/default.php/cPath/25_173_2325_2341) These are about $8.25 US a pop.

I e-mailed a lighting store in Richmond and they said there was only one store they could order from that were about 3.6W GU5.3 bulbs for $60 each (perhaps they were LED).

[Icedawn]

Let me guess, you like to waste energy and MONEY. call +1 416-736-0447.

hey, if you have any idea where to get equivalently bright CFL or LED lighting that can repay itself within 5 years to generic 50W MR 16 halogens, I'm all ears...


Depends which MR16...

I found some CFL GU10's at Rona that were energy saving (doesn't have the funnel shape like the halogen GU10s, more cylindrical). They were about $5-6 a pop.

I also found a website for 5W CFL GU5.3's in the US that can ship to Canada: [link] (http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/default.php/cPath/25_173_2325_2341) These are about $8.25 US a pop.

I e-mailed a lighting store in Richmond and they said there was only one store they could order from that were about 3.6W GU5.3 bulbs for $60 each (perhaps they were LED).

Thanks for the help eh? I'm referring to the bipin, GU5.3's I think.

a) The GU10's from Rona would be amazing... but unfortunately I can't use that plug.
b) The 3.6W for $60 is almost certainly LED based on my research. Probably at most 15-20W equivalent.
c) And the energyfederation? Great find, but alas... only the equivalent of a 20W halogen.http://www.feitelectric.com/parreflector/parreflectors.html

[robertalan]

I hate the light from those CFL fluorescent bulbs! I refuse to use them, and have continued to use good old incandescent bulbs.

Luckily, LED technology is almost ready for prime time in home lighting applications. Actually, you can already buy LED bulbs that replace 40w bulbs in standard sockets, but they're still way too expensive - - here's a write-up on the Lemnis Pharox LED Bulb (http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/002704.php) - - but economies of scale will soon bring this technology down to a cost effective price (after all, they last 50 times as long as a standard incandescent bulb).

Skip the evil fluorescent technology, save all that mercury from ending up in our landfills and water table, and make the leap directly to LED technology!


Lemnis Pharox LED Bulb
Warm, white, longlasting 40w replacement

http://www.kk.org/cooltools/lemnis-led-sm.jpg

I have been dutifully buying the various LED bulbs being marketed as home incandescent replacements for a year or two. Up until now, all have had that weird, blue flickery LED light, and all have been expensive. The Lemnis Pharox is the first one that actually delivers as a home bulb replacement. It sips electricity pulling down a mere 4 watts, will last for 35 years, and replaces the light of a 40 watt incandescent. I installed one in our recessed home lighting adjacent to normal bulbs, and asked my wife to pick out which one was the LED and she couldn't tell which one it was. The only thing I am disappointed about is that they don't have higher output ones yet available (such as a 60 or 75 watt replacement). I can only assume they are in the works. While you pay an early adopter premium on these ($50-60), they are excellent for places where it's too much trouble to replace bulbs, or if you have a solar system on your roof and you want those watts to go further.

-- Alexander Rose

Lemnis Pharox LED Bulb
$59
Available from Upscale Lighting (http://www.upscalelighting.com/show.php?pid=4523)

Manufactured by Lemnis Lighting (http://www.lemnislighting.com/)


(The Lemnis Lighting (http://www.lemnislighting.com/) website has more info and a news video clip...)

[UrbanPoet]

:arrowu:

wow that is cool!
but damn... $59.... after tax/shippingit'll be @ $80...

[robertalan]

:arrowu:

wow that is cool!
but damn... $59.... after tax/shippingit'll be @ $80...

Watch the price plummet over the next two years.

[marbss]

i'll try reviving this thread. I'm looking to replace my GU10 halogen bulbs with GU10 LED lights.

Has anyone had any experience on ebay (http://shop.ebay.ca/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=gu10+LED&_sacat=See-All-Categories)?

Or are there any stores in the GTA you would recommend?

found a guy in Richmond Hill.... http://shop.ebay.ca/merchant/everbrightleds

http://www.everbrightlights.com/contact.html

[ZenOps]

Why not have some fun with the lights...

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.18744

5 watts 280 psychodelic purple lumens.

[_Allan_]

See LEDLights.ca (http://www.ledlights.ca/moreLED.php) for buying LED lights in Canada.

[ZenOps]

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5353

Still early in technology - so buyer beware. Personally I'd wait another year or so before jumping in on it.

For about $4 Cdn - 12 leds alone are not bright enough to read by comfortably, its more like a nightlight.

[nfnx]

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5353

Still early in technology - so buyer beware. Personally I'd wait another year or so before jumping in on it.

For about $4 Cdn - 12 leds alone are not bright enough to read by comfortably, its more like a nightlight.

i was actually looking at something similar... LED's will be the lighting of the future, but i agree with you, give it some time.

for me, the light is too dull right now to be useful daily.

[UrbanPoet]

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5353

Still early in technology - so buyer beware. Personally I'd wait another year or so before jumping in on it.

For about $4 Cdn - 12 leds alone are not bright enough to read by comfortably, its more like a nightlight.

Tried it... It sucks.
I used it as a hall way night light. It has a very blueish spot light (even shows up in the pics).

[majesus]

LED technology are great, but they doesn't have a high lumen output capacity and are unidirectional sources. For lighting up a room, they just don't fit that application. So if you want to use them for that, they need to be heavily moded and that's why they are expensive.

[Heynow999]

I have bought some bulbs from the guy in Richmond hill. His name is Gary. He has some MR16's that are really good. They are bright enough to do area lighting and the color is really good. I was most impressed by those. 6 watts. I bought a dozen. I have some track lights and I am going to buy new bases that will fit the MR16's. He has some gu10's that are good, but not as nice as the mr16'2, I thought.

We have to buy these things to create demand. I don't look at it for payback, because at $25 a bulb, thats a long payback. I look at it more as a hobby. My hobby is to try and get my hydro bill as low as possible.

But it really is much more than that. In Ontario, they are going to build a new nuclear plant. How much is that going to cost? The estimate for Pickering was $2 billion, it ended up costing $13 billion. Forty years later, we are still paying for it on our hydro bill as "debt reduction". If we all conserved, maybe they wouldn't need to build a new plant. I have heard stories about childhood leukemia being more common around that plant. Is it worth the risk? Ask one of the parents who's child is laying in a hospital bed

[Heynow999]

I was in Home Depot today and they were having a clearance on MR16 fixtures that would fit in the track light I have. They are going for $6! So I can now use the MR16 LEDs I have. I had a track light with 4 fifty watt gu10's in it. I replaced 3 of them with the 6 watt LEDs. I have to admit it is dimmer, but I am ok with it. I will go from 200 watts of gu10's to 24 watts of LEDs.

[tomw]

There isn't going to be much demand until places like Home Depot start selling more LED light bulbs. That's when prices will come down drastically. So far I've only seen one LED light bulb at Home Depot.

[blainehamilton]

The problem is stores here aren't stocking them yet. Could be they want to unload the CFL stocks on unsuspecting Canadian consumers, or CSA is dragging their feet approving the LED products in Canada.

When I was in Phoenix in February, Costco, Home Depot, Lowes, even Wal Mart had huge selections of LED lights of all shapes and types. Prices were ok, about on par with DX, but with a much better return policy of course.

My guess is the LED mainstream stock will move north in about a year or so...

[voodoo401]

Watch out with the cheap LED light, most will never hit the advertised usage.

Check out http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/
It's mostly about LED flashlight but they have a form for fixed lighting products.

[Heynow999]

I saw a new LED bulb at home depot.

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=901630&Ntt=901630&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=0&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber



Anyways, not cheap at $30, narrow beam, they claim equal to a 20 watt bulb. They still have some way to go before the general public will buy them.

[pshch]

Anyways, not cheap at $30, narrow beam, they claim equal to a 20 watt bulb. They still have some way to go before the general public will buy them.

They always can legislate CFL out of market :D

[messerchmidt]

check ebay.

Some walmarts in the US have led bulbs made by lighting of America. They work, but are not bright; ideal for small lamps and outside fixtures though.

I ordered a bunch from china by pretending to be an interested supplier, he sold me the 80x 7w LED mr16s I needed for my house as I promised to order more (which I am not going too)

good luck

[semiman]

The problem is stores here aren't stocking them yet. Could be they want to unload the CFL stocks on unsuspecting Canadian consumers, or CSA is dragging their feet approving the LED products in Canada.

When I was in Phoenix in February, Costco, Home Depot, Lowes, even Wal Mart had huge selections of LED lights of all shapes and types. Prices were ok, about on par with DX, but with a much better return policy of course.

My guess is the LED mainstream stock will move north in about a year or so...

What do you mean CSA is dragging their feet? Is that from knowledge or are you talking from the top of your head? The CSA approves what manufacturers ask them to approve. Technically a lot of LED stuff should be DOC approved to as they can radiate RF. Again, whatever is requested to be approved, is approved.... period.

The reason you are not seeing stuff is the Canadian market is 1/10th the size and suppliers can not necessarily justify the cost when the sales are going to be low.

For the most part, most of the LED products on the market are not that bright. Expect that all to change in the next 6-24 months as many many more LED products come out. Philips will have reasonable output edison base (standard) lamps coming out this year. Expect to see many many more.

The other issue with a lot of the products linked to, i.e. one of the first shown on tree-hugger is that the bulb will last about 1/4 as long effectively as a CFL bulb. That is not to say that you can not make an LED bulb last 50,000 or even 100,000 hours, just that there is a lot of crap out there made with LEDS that will never ever last that long....well light may still come out of them, but they will be so dim to be useless.

You will start seeing a lot more products when truly good products start to come onto the market. The retailers have also been reluctant to put products on the shelf as the quality is poor and they do not want the hassle of returns.

[stevek]

So,

after all this discussion is there a replacement for a 50W GU10 halogen out there?

would love to have one.

S

[st7860]

there are already plenty of edison base and gu10 LED lamps out there.

[j8lam]

I've noticed Costco has started carrying about 5 types of LED bulbs. Sorry, but I wasn't specifically looking to buy any, so I don't know what types they have. I do remember the brand Lighting of America.

[gregorychu]

just because it is more efficient doesnt mean you still shouldnt conserve...how much are these bulbs regular at retail locations?

[mangoman]

yup - Lights of America (made in China)
I bought a pack of the chandelier type bulbs (which also come with base adapters so they could be used in a regular lamp fixture upto 75W) - they use 1.5W and they give no equivalency in terms of incandescent bulbs but they list the output at only 86 Lumens.

The 3-pack was $15 I think. They had some other larger types as well (I think they were replacements for floods) but I didn't look into it.


I've noticed Costco has started carrying about 5 types of LED bulbs. Sorry, but I wasn't specifically looking to buy any, so I don't know what types they have. I do remember the brand Lighting of America.

[ricsad]

They're not bright and not diffused. Doesn't look as nice as 6500k bulbs. I'd say using a CFL while waiting for new LED products come out is a better choice. If you're just using it as decoration lighting and don't care about the light output, then LED is fine. For most situations, it's a waste of gas to drive back and forth to exchange products.

[mymadelynn]

Anymore imformation on led light bulbs? I recently saw some that would fit in the old style night lights but haven't seen much else

[Sean_A]

We are a supplier of LED bulbs.

At this point, we are only selling it to commercial customers, this is because LED lights don't usually sell themselves if you put them in a shop, the customer must be explained why they are paying 30 something dollars instead of a 5-dollar bulb.

It is true that LED bulbs aren't as bright as halogen ones, but you can still choose the correct wattage and have equivalent bulbs AND save money still.
Most manufacturers recommend replacing a 50w halogen bulb with a 3 or 4w bulb. We don't. We recommend replacing a 50w bulb with a 9w bulb. This is to ensure that the lumen readings are equal.

[Sean_A]

Oh and I forgot to mention this:
The important factor to consider in LED bulbs are who is actually making the LEDs used in the bulb? What LENS is being used in the LED? And what is the driver of the unit like?
There are a ton of bulbs made with Chinese/Taiwanese LEDs that are pretty poor. Trust LED bulbs made by CREE more, the quality of CREE LEDs are much better (and bulbs are usually slightly more expensive, because CREE is American and their LEDs are more expensive).

Also, make sure the bulb that you are buying has a heat sink around it. LEDs heat up, and if there is no heat sink around then they will burn much faster than the supplier will tell you.

[Icedawn]

We are a supplier of LED bulbs.

At this point, we are only selling it to commercial customers, this is because LED lights don't usually sell themselves if you put them in a shop, the customer must be explained why they are paying 30 something dollars instead of a 5-dollar bulb.

It is true that LED bulbs aren't as bright as halogen ones, but you can still choose the correct wattage and have equivalent bulbs AND save money still.
Most manufacturers recommend replacing a 50w halogen bulb with a 3 or 4w bulb. We don't. We recommend replacing a 50w bulb with a 9w bulb. This is to ensure that the lumen readings are equal.

Any suggestions for where I can buy these 9w halogen replacements for a mr16, either in TO or online?

[Sean_A]

Any suggestions for where I can buy these 9w halogen replacements for a mr16, either in TO or online?

Just so people don't think I left this hanging. We're in contact by email.

[Danno2005]

Just so people don't think I left this hanging. We're in contact by email.

Can you post a link or more info here?

Thanks

[SupsD]

Costco sells 2 types of LED Bulbs. One regular (small) - 89 Lumens and the other vanity type bulb @ 270Lumens (I think - someone correct me on that).

The smaller bulbs is on sale right now - 3 for $15.99
The Vanity bulbs - 2 for $23.99

I have the smaller one and it does the job on the nightstand lights but it WILL NOT light up a room or much of it. It does produce a romantic feel if you want it to be like that. :P

I have yet to try out the vanity one.

[tomw]

Costco sells 2 types of LED Bulbs. One regular (small) - 89 Lumens and the other vanity type bulb @ 1000Lumens (I think - someone correct me on that).

The smaller bulbs is on sale right now - 3 for $15.99
The Vanity bulbs - 2 for $23.99

I have the smaller one and it does the job on the nightstand lights but it WILL NOT light up a room or much of it. It does produce a romantic feel if you want it to be like that. :P

I have yet to try out the vanity one.

I just picked up the smaller bulbs from costco few days ago and it does a good job in a nightstand, I really like it.

[wasserware]

I saw the Philips AmbientLED LED lightbulb on demo at homedepot and they are very bright. It is very well made with a large heatsink at the bottom to ensure longevity for the LED module. I believe Philips LEDs are Cree LEDs since now the two companies are in sort of joint venture.

Whatever you do, avoid Wal-Mart LEDs, they are made up of a dozen or so LED in one unit and I think they are more of a fire hazard than anything.
Here is a review from candlepowerforums (where flashlight pros gather):

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=3026031
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg230/LEDninja/Flashlights/Earth%20Hour%20Lights/Philips-7W-lightbulb.jpg

Btw does anyone know how to calculate the money saved from changing lets say 30 CFLs in the house into LED?

[bLaCkLyCaNtHrOpy]

I saw the Philips AmbientLED LED lightbulb on demo at homedepot and they are very bright. It is very well made with a large heatsink at the bottom to ensure longevity for the LED module. I believe Philips LEDs are Cree LEDs since now the two companies are in sort of joint venture.

Whatever you do, avoid Wal-Mart LEDs, they are made up of a dozen or so LED in one unit and I think they are more of a fire hazard than anything.
Here is a review from candlepowerforums (where flashlight pros gather):

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=3026031
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg230/LEDninja/Flashlights/Earth%20Hour%20Lights/Philips-7W-lightbulb.jpg

Btw does anyone know how to calculate the money saved from changing lets say 30 CFLs in the house into LED?

hmm thanks, good to know, what other brands can i trust?

[wasserware]

hmm thanks, good to know, what other brands can i trust?

Philips is definitely one of the top brands in LED bulbs but they are fairly expensive at $28/pop. I am not too sure about other brands but I would definetely avoid LED bulbs where it is made up of several LEDs in one casing. That shows the LED used in that bulb is inferior in quality and cannot reproduce too much light on its own.

[MacGyver]

Btw does anyone know how to calculate the money saved from changing lets say 30 CFLs in the house into LED?Yes, let's say you have 20 CFL bulbs at 13W each and you're going to replace them with LED bulbs at 5W each. Your total energy savings is 160W, or 0.16kW. Now multiply by the run hours of the bulbs, which for the purposes of this argument we will assume are the same between CFL and LED bulbs at about 10,000 hours.

0.16kW x 10000h = 1600kWh

Multiply by the aggregate electricity rate in Ontario, which is about 13.5 cents, and that equals = $216 saved over the life of the bulbs.

Now if Philips claims of 40,000h life are to be believed, then the energy saved is four times that, plus you're saving the cost of replacing the CFL's three times.

[bLaCkLyCaNtHrOpy]

Philips is definitely one of the top brands in LED bulbs but they are fairly expensive at $28/pop. I am not too sure about other brands but I would definetely avoid LED bulbs where it is made up of several LEDs in one casing. That shows the LED used in that bulb is inferior in quality and cannot reproduce too much light on its own.

hmm ok cool

[NEMESIS_2008]

i bought 3 led lightbulbs from walmart for my night lamps outside my house. not as bright as my old cfls but it does the job. 1.5 watts per bulb so i leave it on all night without any worries. the white clear light really made a difference. as for the inside, still waiting for the lumens output to be increased.

[helterskelter]

I saw this the other day too and it looks very promising. The demo at the home depot where I live (Hwy 48/16th ave) was bright.

I think the pricing was $30 or more. There are two versions, soft and warm light. I could not find any warm light versions in my Home Depot.

As for pot lighting, I was looking for LED lighting as well, but the price was too prohitive (Par20). The pricing that I got was $49.99 for one!

I went instead with a Par20 CFL from Supreme Lighting. It was $14.99, and he gave me a discount of $1.00 off since I bought 8 bulbs to replace my Halogen Par20s. The only downside is that it takes about $40-45 to become fully bright but hell I save on hydro costs. FYI, these CFLs are not dimmable.


hmm thanks, good to know, what other brands can i trust?

[ZenOps]

Just a heads up for those interested in LED lights.

You may have noticed - that the biggest lightbulb maker General Electric GE - does not make or plan on making any consumer level LED lightbulbs...

Why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qyodldq_0I

They have decided to fully back OLED which is panel based, not spot based. The US will probably be seeing OLED products this year (depending on how well the economy goes, and how well its recieved)

You can do a google search on GE OLED and find more info.

[mangoman]

Interesting looking Welland, ON company making led replacements for halogens. They seem to have a buy & try offer (but you have to pay for shipping):

http://www.crselectronics.com/BuyTry.html#terms


I don't think they sell through retail outlets yet but it would be nice to see a store like CT/Home Depot/Lowe's offer Canadian-made products.

[pshch]

Yes, let's say you have 20 CFL bulbs at 13W each and you're going to replace them with LED bulbs at 5W each. Your total energy savings is 160W, or 0.16kW. Now multiply by the run hours of the bulbs, which for the purposes of this argument we will assume are the same between CFL and LED bulbs at about 10,000 hours.

0.16kW x 10000h = 1600kWh

Multiply by the aggregate electricity rate in Ontario, which is about 13.5 cents, and that equals = $216 saved over the life of the bulbs.

Now if Philips claims of 40,000h life are to be believed, then the energy saved is four times that, plus you're saving the cost of replacing the CFL's three times.

There are couple of problems with your math:
1. One 13w CFL produces 900 lumens (same as 60w incandescent). To get the same amount of lite you will need 4 LEDs (costco vanity type).
2. Actually it's just consequence of #1 - your light fixture may not be large enough to accommodate enough LED bulbs to produce enough light.

When they manage to make LED bulb which can produce 800-900 lumens they will be a good alternative to CFLs, now they have a very limited usage in average household.

[Sean_A]

Can you post a link or more info here?

Thanks

Sorry for the late reply Danno.

I'm scared of regulation about posting a link. I'll PM you a link to our website. I would be glad to answer any questions anyone may have though.

[tebore]

There are couple of problems with your math:
1. One 13w CFL produces 900 lumens (same as 60w incandescent). To get the same amount of lite you will need 4 LEDs (costco vanity type).
2. Actually it's just consequence of #1 - your light fixture may not be large enough to accommodate enough LED bulbs to produce enough light.

When they manage to make LED bulb which can produce 800-900 lumens they will be a good alternative to CFLs, now they have a very limited usage in average household.

Slight problem with your assumption. Those 900lms will only be verifiable in a integrating sphere. What does that mean? It means not all 900lms will be useful light it just makes 900lms. Most of it will be bounced the tube(Spiral) and turned in to waste heat or get lost in a downward facing fixture. In certain cases a 200lm downward facing LED bulb will appear brighter than a 900lm CFL because the light it's 200lm directed through a 90% efficient optic to what needs to be lit. Compared to say 900lm where only 65% makes out it out the fixture and diffused.

You just got to decide how to use it. Eg if you want to use the bulb in really cold areas then LEDs will do better, the phosphor used is less affected by temperature. I do agree that right now LED bulbs are not very cost effective but it wasn't that long again CFL's cost $20 a pop and died much before their rated life.

[codetrap]

Yes, let's say you have 20 CFL bulbs at 13W each and you're going to replace them with LED bulbs at 5W each. Your total energy savings is 160W, or 0.16kW. Now multiply by the run hours of the bulbs, which for the purposes of this argument we will assume are the same between CFL and LED bulbs at about 10,000 hours.

0.16kW x 10000h = 1600kWh

Multiply by the aggregate electricity rate in Ontario, which is about 13.5 cents, and that equals = $216 saved over the life of the bulbs.

Now if Philips claims of 40,000h life are to be believed, then the energy saved is four times that, plus you're saving the cost of replacing the CFL's three times.

Keep in mind this doesn't cover the cost of buying the CFLs, or the cost of buying the LEDs.

At Canadian Tire, the LED GU10 are $29.99 each. CFLs are $14.99. The difference in price is $15. If you're replacing 20 of them, that's a difference of $300 up front. That's assuming that you didn't have to replace any bulbs already existing that you paid for, which would up that number even further.

At this time, LED is not cost effective over CFL.

[st7860]

$15 is a lot for a CFL

[plodder]

I read this article today and noted that the low light eission is because they had too much power coming in...........




An often overlooked element of the green movement is just how new it is. When we first began looking into outfitting our restaurants with LED lighting, we figured it was a no brainer: replace our old, less efficient florescent tubes with low energy LED tubes. The problems began about two months after they were installed. The lights began to dim and fade, eventually outputting as much light as a 20 watt bulb. What had once been a bright, natural white light was now a dim blue. After a call to an electrician and the manufacturer we discovered the problem: The tubes were receiving too much power. We had to step down the wattage at the fixtures to prevent the tubes from burning themselves up. A fresh round of tubes later and they are running great! No dimming or blueing, just beautiful white light. And at less than 6 watts per bulb our power draw is about 6 times less than with the same length florescent lights. All told we were saving about 40,000,000 watt/hours of electricity every year versus our old florescent lights. We were awestruck by that number. Afterall, we were using florescent lights, something that is already considered an energy efficient alternative to incadescent lighting. By switching to LED we were conserving enough energy every year to run a 60 watt light bulb everyday and every night for nearly 80 years.


check out their "Going Green' link


http://www.google.ca/url?q=http://www.glassnickelpizza.com/About-Us/about-us.html&sa=X&ei=kf4TTMOoN8aqlAeO5eX-Cw&ved=0CB0QqwMoBTAA&usg=AFQjCNEwo-X1kkiTG_VJYZyOiYyOM0vikw

[Sean_A]

Yes, overdriving LEDs is usually a big issue with the poor-quality LED bulbs available. It is very easy to get more brightness out of LED bulbs by driving too much power in to them, but this also shortens the lifespan of the LEDs.

Us for example, we have a 3-watt version and 9-watt version for our MR16 bulbs. They are in fact made with two different types of LEDs, and this is clearly visible just by a simple look into the bulbs.
There are many manufacturers out there however, who would sell a low power and a high power bulb simply by over-driving their LEDs. Their bulb lasts only about 6 months max.

[wong8egg]

Yes, overdriving LEDs is usually a big issue with the poor-quality LED bulbs available. It is very easy to get more brightness out of LED bulbs by driving too much power in to them, but this also shortens the lifespan of the LEDs.

Us for example, we have a 3-watt version and 9-watt version for our MR16 bulbs. They are in fact made with two different types of LEDs, and this is clearly visible just by a simple look into the bulbs.
There are many manufacturers out there however, who would sell a low power and a high power bulb simply by over-driving their LEDs. Their bulb lasts only about 6 months max.

I just directly replaced my 50W GU10 with transformers to LED (3W?). Am I over-driving it?

Any way I can tell the quality of the lights by just looking at it??

[MacGyver]

Any way I can tell the quality of the lights by just looking at it??The good ones have a cast aluminum heatsink on the back. Heat is the enemy of LEDs.

[Sean_A]

I just directly replaced my 50W GU10 with transformers to LED (3W?). Am I over-driving it?

Any way I can tell the quality of the lights by just looking at it??

I can't tell if you are overdriving your LEDs or not, that requires more detailed information about the output of your transformer and the make and model of the LEDs you are using.

But, as the poster above says, heat is the enemy of LEDs. If you touch your LEDs and they are hot then the LEDs won't last too much. The first half an hour to hour doesn't count, they usually take some time before the heat sink actually does it's job properly. So if you want to test this, it's best to give it some time.

In terms of looking at them and telling the quality, again the aluminum heatsink that was mentioned is important. Another point is make sure you buy the ones made with high power LEDs. Don't go for the "cluster" ones that is available from Rona made by Globe Electric. They are the older technology and are known to lose brightness after the first 6-months to a year. Stick with the ones that have 3 LEDs on them for MR16, GU10, and PAR20 bulbs, and 5 to 7 LEDs for PAR30s.

If you need any more information don't hesitate to ask or PM :)

P.s: Are you getting enough brightness to replace 50w halogen with 3w LEDs? Because we recommend 3w LEDs to replace 25w halogens, and our 3*3w LEDs (9-watt, which actually consumes 6 watts) to replace 50 watts. You could get them and test them, and if you don't like them we'll be happy to refund it. You'll only pay for the shipping costs (or free pickup and drop off if you ever visit Montreal).

[benintor]

Well, I'm a LED LIGHTING supplier from Toronto. The retail price of LED is way higher than what we gave, and Also we helped many clients get Incentive over many Programs which are co-founded by OPA. So, after the either 40%-50% incentive, the price of the LED is equal or even cheaper than the CFL.

If you guyz need more information about OPA incentive programs I'm more than happy to help you guyz out.

Project Manager

Benjamin

Top Color Technological Lighting

[bluej]

Well, I'm a LED LIGHTING supplier from Toronto. The retail price of LED is way higher than what we gave, and Also we helped many clients get Incentive over many Programs which are co-founded by OPA. So, after the either 40%-50% incentive, the price of the LED is equal or even cheaper than the CFL.

If you guyz need more information about OPA incentive programs I'm more than happy to help you guyz out.

Project Manager

Benjamin

Top Color Technological Lighting

Do you have web site or something we read? I am looking for LED bulbs to replace bulbs in my lamp hang over the stair well. I want to keep it on all day since it is pretty dark.

[benintor]

Hi, bluej:

Thanks for your reply, well, we are just starting the business in Canada, so at this moment we do not have a canadian based website that you can take a look at, but you can take a look at my factory's website, there has the detail product information.

http://www.sztcled.com/english/products.asp

Also, may I ask what kinda of light are you using at your stairwell.

If you have any question, please feel free to contact me at benintor@engineer.com

Best regards

Benjamin

[enon]

I saw the Philips AmbientLED LED lightbulb on demo at homedepot and they are very bright. It is very well made with a large heatsink at the bottom to ensure longevity for the LED module. I believe Philips LEDs are Cree LEDs since now the two companies are in sort of joint venture.

Whatever you do, avoid Wal-Mart LEDs, they are made up of a dozen or so LED in one unit and I think they are more of a fire hazard than anything.
Here is a review from candlepowerforums (where flashlight pros gather):

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=3026031
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg230/LEDninja/Flashlights/Earth%20Hour%20Lights/Philips-7W-lightbulb.jpg

Btw does anyone know how to calculate the money saved from changing lets say 30 CFLs in the house into LED?

What is the price of this LED bulb?

[benintor]

What is the price of this LED bulb?

WELL, 7W led bulbs, their retail price should be around 60 bucks if it is the high power one.

[zack99]

30 bux

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=913005&Ntt=913005&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

[teoconca]

30 bux

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=913005&Ntt=913005&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber
Ouch @ $30 a pop! Is it worth it to replace CFL with LED? How long does it take to recoup the money? I bought some Philips LED @ 1W for $1 from Home Depot clearance. It is excellent for night light.

[sonyminidiscman]

LED is way too expensive right now. You won't get your money back unless you have to leave it on 24/7

I did a calculation, for a 60W bulb compared to 15W CFL, and if the CFL cost 1 dollar each (Which i did find at CT one day), and if you use it for 3 hrs a day, you will save the 1 dollar back in 3months.

I can't even imagine how long it will take to pay back a 30 dollar LED light...

[believeit]

Anyone know of a reliable low wattage (ie. 40W eqivalent) bulb that is good for outside use? CFLs seem to struggle in cold climate. LED just seems too expensive still.
Thx

[Sean_A]

Here's a documentary on "The dirty truth about CFL bulbs":

It's three parts. Part 1 starts here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x6LNTdMVaU


Then follow it from there on the "related videos" for part 2 and 3.

[voodoo401]

Here's a documentary on "The dirty truth about CFL bulbs":

It's three parts. Part 1 starts here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x6LNTdMVaU


Then follow it from there on the "related videos" for part 2 and 3.

Dude did you read the thread title?
it's about LED bulbs

[jbad]

Anyone know of a reliable low wattage (ie. 40W eqivalent) bulb that is good for outside use? CFLs seem to struggle in cold climate. LED just seems too expensive still.
Thx

a co-worker just installed these

http://www.insaini.com/lumique-xe-gu10-6w-p-101.html

exact words were "looks like a million bucks"

if you have par20's.. they got even brighter lamps available

[coldpower27]

a co-worker just installed these

http://www.insaini.com/lumique-xe-gu10-6w-p-101.html

exact words were "looks like a million bucks"

if you have par20's.. they got even brighter lamps available

What is the equivalent in Halogen Wattage? Is the 6W equivalent to only 25-35W or the 50W ones...?

[jbad]

What is the equivalent in Halogen Wattage? Is the 6W equivalent to only 25-35W or the 50W ones...?

i doubt the 6W ones are equivalent to 50.. most likely 35 - 40.. i have yet to see my co-workers pots.. but apparently his neighbor was impressed.. im itching to see them though.. would like to get pots installed in my soffits as well.. but dont see the point of running 50W halogen lamps.. especially when youre running like 15 - 20 of them.. thats a 1000W of energy.. the led's though at 6W.. would be only 120W .. which would be an awesome savings..

[Icedawn]

Borrowed a bunch of 4W Phillips from our building's management.... definitely not as bright as the 50W halogens, but personally, entirely sufficient for day to day use.

[user01]

This is perfect for a lamp. Any good looking lamp with safety inspection?

[Sean_A]

i doubt the 6W ones are equivalent to 50.. most likely 35 - 40.. i have yet to see my co-workers pots.. but apparently his neighbor was impressed.. im itching to see them though.. would like to get pots installed in my soffits as well.. but dont see the point of running 50W halogen lamps.. especially when youre running like 15 - 20 of them.. thats a 1000W of energy.. the led's though at 6W.. would be only 120W .. which would be an awesome savings..

As a supplier of LED bulbs I can tell you that the current MR16 and GU10 bulbs out on the market are not sufficient to replace a 50-watt halogen. They are only good for replacing 35 watts. This is because a higher wattage MR16 or GU10 bulb would need a much larger heat sink with current LED technology, and due to the usual sizes of the current fixtures, achieving this heat sink is not possible.

Having said that, as most people have mentioned the brightness of a 6-watt MR16 or GU10 is definitely sufficient for day-to-day use.

If anyone is looking for LED bulbs contact me, most of our bulbs are also dimmable and they are made with quality American made CREE LEDs. We do a 30-day no satisfaction return policy, meaning if you don't like the bulb simply return it to us and get a refund.

[brunes]

If anyone is looking for LED bulbs contact me, most of our bulbs are also dimmable and they are made with quality American made CREE LEDs. We do a 30-day no satisfaction return policy, meaning if you don't like the bulb simply return it to us and get a refund.

You have DIMMABLE LED bulbs?

How much would a dimmable 75w equivalent PAR20 or PAR30 be?

[htc***]

a co-worker just installed these

http://www.insaini.com/lumique-xe-gu10-6w-p-101.html

exact words were "looks like a million bucks"

if you have par20's.. they got even brighter lamps available


I saw a similar one and sell @ Dufferin Costco 2 for less than $20.

[bulbhunter]

Does anyone know this model. Is it any good?
http://cgi.ebay.com/GU10-60-SMD-1210-LED-Light-Lamp-Bulb-White-9W-110V-/180535410892?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a08bfc0cc

It has 60 smd 1210 led 9W GU10 looks like this is the equivalent to 50W halogen. Hard to say if it will be rliable. The price is good though

[Jay01]

How's it work?

There is/was a GU10 LED bulb, it was pretty good for directional lighting, lit up within about 8-10 feet. Thing is, it cost like $25 and didn't put out nearly as much light as a regular GU10 - so it's not good as primary lighting.

The only other LED lighting I've seen is under cabinet stuff, where it works pretty good.

Where to buy cheap GU10 LED bulb:?:

[Sean_A]

Does anyone know this model. Is it any good?
http://cgi.ebay.com/GU10-60-SMD-1210-LED-Light-Lamp-Bulb-White-9W-110V-/180535410892?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a08bfc0cc

It has 60 smd 1210 led 9W GU10 looks like this is the equivalent to 50W halogen. Hard to say if it will be rliable. The price is good though

The item is located in Hong Kong. It costs about 9 bucks including shipping. I don't think even the cheapest of cheapest of postal services would ship a package of 1cm x 1cm x 1cm from Hong Kong to Canada for less than 9 bucks (which in this case is cost of the bulb and the shipping combined!!). So I would be very careful, plus the fact that the seller doesn't accept return on the items either.

Also remember that you would need to pay for custom duties and brokerage fees.

[htc***]

Where to buy cheap GU10 LED bulb:?:

Costco has it for $18.99 for 2 GU10 LED

[Sean_A]

Yes costco LEDs are also good for about 6 months before they lose their brightness.

There is a difference between the older technology of LEDs (the ones where there's 30-40 LEDs per each GU10/MR16 bulb) and the newer high power ones (with 3 LEDs per bulb).

The reason the LEDs came to hype within the past couple of years was the invention of the new type of high power LEDs. The older types of LED bulbs (that costco has on sale now) have been around for nearly 5 years, but the problem with them has been that they have a high decay of light. i.e. they lose about 50% of their technology within the first 6 months.

[P-Lo]

3x3 Cree led , 9 w, should be decent. Was going to order a couple hundred. Anyone want to get on on it? Looking at about 13 or 14 a piece.

[yayfreebies]

How many lumens does the 1 watt version make? I'm highly interested.

[Red Smart]

Comparing any wattage LED lamp to the same wattage LED lamp without getting all the information, is like comparing apples to blueberry muffins. Sure there is a bit of fruit in each of them, but they are vastly different.

Contrary to popular belief LED’s generate heat, lots of heat, but it’s at the junction point of where the LED meets the circuit board. Taking care of the heat greatly changes the way ALL LED’s perform. If you can't control the heat with proper heat syncs, then the 50 or 100 thousand hours that someone has promised you these things will last, won't. Plain and simple.

Let’s say that you are looking at a 9watt LED from company X and a 9watt LED from company Y, just because company X is cheaper doesn’t mean that it is better.

The amount of lumens that each lamp (and I use lamp in a generic term), puts out is a good way to start to look at things.

Colour temperature of the LED is also another factor that you should be looking at. From warm white to cool white, each will change the amount of lumens the LED will produce.

Most run of the mill LED suppliers use a process called binning. What binning means is that the get shipped a zillion different amounts of LED’s that range in colour temperature in one bag, and the local manufacturer is responsible to make sure that they bin the like LED’s together….IE 2700k with 2700k, 3000k with 3000k, etc…etc…. as you can imagine this is a long and costly process, and not all manufacturers do this correctly.

You as the consumer thinking that you are buying two identical LED MR16’s, may in fact be getting two vastly different ones.

Sticking with a known brand manufacturer in almost every sense of the word will cost you a bit more money, but in the end will likely ensure a better buying experience.

I am not backing anyone in particular, but people like GE, Osram Sylvania and Philips are usually a good place to start. There are also companies out there like Cree and Nichia who are producing some high quality LED’s (though admittedly they go to market differently).

I can only suggest that you do research before you jump in and buy anything.

Just remember that replacing your current A lamp, or MR16, or even linear fluorescent doesn’t work the same as replacing these lamps with like products.

Wattage of the LED’s is not representative of the amount of light (or lumens) that you can expect to get out of your current light source. What you may be saving in energy can be quickly eroded if you need to purchase double or triple the amount of LED’s to do the same job.

That also doesn’t take into account the beam pattern of LED’s vs. traditional lamps either.

And to the poster who wants to go to China to buy a case lot or two of Cree LED’s. Not only can you buy them out of the US, but they also have local representation here in Toronto.

LED’s are great, but they are not the all to end all as far as home illumination is concerned.

[Sean_A]

It is no secret that people here know that I work for a LED Lighting company. and I can tell you that ^^ this guy above speaks the truth :)

[hyperactiveme]

I have about 20 gu-10 bulbs to replace. Until prices come down, I'm still buying off eBay.

[benintor]

well, I have compared with some philips and other non brand chinese stuff, philips is much more reliable than other white boxes, but the price is way too high, and there is one day I drop by an home hardware on woodbine, I saw they are carry a new brand of LED light, which is green boxes, their package looks decent, and for the 4W gu-10 was like 14 and something.

[elton_to]

Leds seem to dim overtime say there is 300lumens at the beginning, after 3 months 24/7 constant on light goes to 200 lumens is that true?

The cheap led flashlight does exactly that.

[antiacid]

Leds seem to dim overtime say there is 300lumens at the beginning, after 3 months 24/7 constant on light goes to 200 lumens is that true?

The cheap led flashlight does exactly that.


Your traditional lights will go from 100 to 75% or less in a matter of months, indeed. However, from my own tests (a M.Sc. based on LED lighting for greenhouses) the LED lamps will not lose their capacity that quickly. Over 3 months, we were still at our top and we'd expect it to fall to 90% after years.

Cheap led flashlights have other failure points than the LED. This might be why they died quickly.

[coldpower27]

i doubt the 6W ones are equivalent to 50.. most likely 35 - 40.. i have yet to see my co-workers pots.. but apparently his neighbor was impressed.. im itching to see them though.. would like to get pots installed in my soffits as well.. but dont see the point of running 50W halogen lamps.. especially when youre running like 15 - 20 of them.. thats a 1000W of energy.. the led's though at 6W.. would be only 120W .. which would be an awesome savings..

They actually created one that replaced th 50W Halogen I installed it today and it seems about exactly the same level of light as my old 50W one... quite expensive though...

http://www.insaini.com/lumique-xg-gu10-7w-p-108.html

[BlueMax]

Has it been said yet that one of the biggest reasons to develop better LED lights is because the compact fluorescents emit electromagnetic frequencies that promote general illness...

I'd like to switch over if someone were able to point me towards a good-quality, relatively affordable multi-pack for the lamps and fixtures in my home.

[Blossomey]

LEDs are directional lights which means that when you look at an LED light most of the light shines out of the top of the bulb with very little escaping out the sides. This makes for a very bright light directly behind the LED. The advantage to this is that the bulb does not need any reflective lenses to direct light and they are much brighter to vehicles directly behind the rider. Trust me when I say that if you want to be seen at night with a blinking tail light LEDs are the way to go. The other obvious advantage to LEDs is the energy efficiency.

[napoleon1769]

They actually created one that replaced th 50W Halogen I installed it today and it seems about exactly the same level of light as my old 50W one... quite expensive though...

http://www.insaini.com/lumique-xg-gu10-7w-p-108.html

I have a Phillips that look exactly like that. They don't make them anymore and replaced it with a smaller one though.

[Sgt_Strider]

Are 40W bulbs worth it? Philips have a 40W equivalent LED bulb and I'm considering purchasing some, but I don't know in what scenarios will that come in handy. I've recently stocked up on the Philips 60W equivalent Ambient LED bulbs.

[rsicard]

Hi

I have about 10 Gu10 6W LED as downlights and it is just beautifull. However, when I put all 10 LED, the light will flicker. If I put 8 LED and 2 Normal Halogen bulb, thew will stop flickering and work correctly.

I also tried that in another room where I have 4 downlights, and got the same result. So putting 1 Normal Halogen + 3 LED = no flicker. But 4 LED = Flickering

I'm also using Lutron C.L. Dimmers (Made specially for LED). I have the same result with a normal dimmer.

Any ideas?

[MacGyver]

Check to make sure your dimmer has a connection to neutral. On some dimmers this is an optional connection, but it's still a must for CFL and LED lights.

[Durriya]

12v DC led light bulbs are normally not used to light up the house or in any household item or fixture. They are used in porch lights, accent and reading lights, solar or battery powered systems and other 12 voltage setups and equipments.

[Fish0912]

Any supplier in Canada now?

[Hubbard]

Fish0912 - are you looking for personal LED products or for a business? If you're looking for personal LED products for your house etc. then going to Home Depot etc is just fine. Philips bulbs are very very good. However, if you're looking at commercial or industrial LED lighting products and services you'll want to look somewhere else. You can try sites like Lighting Enhancement Corporation (http://lightingenhancementcorporation.com) or LED Lighting Canada (http://www.ledlightingcanada.ca) etc but be sure that they offer good warranties on bulbs and that they preferably are ENERGY STAR certified, which means they've gone through some rigorous testing etc.

LED lights are very different now than they were when this thread started :) You have to be very careful about your purchase - you don't want leftover old stock etc! Probably better (if for business especially) to have them come to you personally rather than just purchasing blindly. Lights containing good quality LEDs like Cree are very good usually, but so much depends on the other components as well.

Let me know if you have any questions!

Steve