Student Works Painting: Hiring Painters!!

[LeeBoA]

lock

[kaiblu]

No offence, but I've heard plenty of warnings about this sort of work. Very few people make tons of money off this, but they always go around campus trying to recruit students with enticements of "earn up to $20 000 per summer!" if you're a "manager", which doesn't happen except for the luckiest few in the biggest cities who happen to find a lot of willing peons.

They'll always talk about how they're making millions nationwide and use it as a hook for young students, but then when something goes wrong (not enough work, not enough pay) they'll claim that not all branches are the same. For everyone else, the work you put into it doesn't make it worthwhile, since any regular labour job pays just as much if not better, plus you get better job security.

Check out some of these reviews I've found by Googling, for example (yes, I know UrbanDictionary isn't the best source, but in this case they're the most effective):

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=college+works+painting


The worst summer "job" ever that will probably make you lose money rather than earn it. In reality, it is a scam. College students work their asses off to almost be guaranteed to lose money while the company takes in the profits.

By the way, it is simply EMBARRASSING that somebody from the company has obviously typed up the #1 definition and then had company employees vote on it a bunch of times to give it the number one position.

College Works Painting told me they would train me well in how to run my own painting business. In reality, the training was awful and I ruined a person's house.


An internship that is arranged in a pyramid scheme. It uses hard working college students to market, sell, and produce a business. This corporation then takes 40% overhead cost of every dollar submitted by the intern. The company provides a few training sessions, some marketing materials, and the license and insurance to run the business. For all of this, they make approximately twice the annual profit per intern, than each intern individually.

For example, and intern would run this entire franchise of the residential painting company by him/her self, and make a profit of $10,000 in one summer of long hard work. From this one intern, College Works Painting makes about $20,000 -and this money is used to fill the fat pockets of the ceo's and upper management, while the interns bring in every dollar. **** this company, they rip off the intern and the customer; by sitting down with customers and having the interns tell them about the worlds most amazing paintjob they will receive, and then having inexperienced college students give mediocre paintjobs, at above average prices. This company claims to have 98% customer satisfaction (because the contract receipt says “I am 100% satisfied” when the client is forced to pay) and thus, giving the company this selling point.

Student Works is owned by the same guys who own College Works Painting --- the National Services Group. Do yourself a favour and Google around for actual testimonials.

[Wilmega]

canvassing

[LeeBoA]

First of all, the reason why people fail is because it HAPPENS! I'm investing my time and money in the program in which I have passion in, so no, I'm not wasting my time. In fact, many managers have made an avg of 16k a year, and the exceptional ones made about 30k+. Its how hard you work, how you manage your time, how lucky you can get and what not which makes you a business man. This program is actually a great program for students who don't want to invest much in their young University life. I don't think I've ever heard of a business that was ALWAYS SUCCESSFUL. If thats what you think, then re-educated yourself. If you don't want to paint, please don't reply to the thread. Also whatever you just suggested doesn't relate anything to my painters. I'm sorry but I know a painter who's made $8000 in one summer.

[LeeBoA]

A pyramid scheme would be like the company called "Cutco". And there's huge difference in what they train.

[7jai]

I don't think its a scheme, but it does take alot of hardwork and time dedication to make "your" particular business run well. It also depends if the staff and the manager are willing to do door-to-door advertising for their product (in this case: painting), since there are some who won't find this job too appealing. But it does succeed with a bit of hardwork and elbow grease. Like I said, it all depends on how hard the individuals work and if they mind doing this line of sales.

Good luck with the recruiting :)

[thezone]

Student works painting is pretty legit i've worked for people and know people who have operated a franchise. Bottom line it's hard work and the managers have to be able to find people to help do marketing which is the most crucial part. I was actually hired by multiple managers to act as a marketing manager and both i'd say ended being successful doing this for multiple years. I've heard some managers don't get there act together untill April-May which is probably why people FAIL. The 30%-40% aren't exactly for nothing, in return all your marketing material is provided and accounting is done and insurance is paid. Unfortunatly there are costs to do business and if your failing I strongly believe the manager/operator is soley to blame.

[LeeBoA]

I don't think its a scheme, but it does take alot of hardwork and time dedication to make "your" particular business run well. It also depends if the staff and the manager are willing to do door-to-door advertising for their product (in this case: painting), since there are some who won't find this job too appealing. But it does succeed with a bit of hardwork and elbow grease. Like I said, it all depends on how hard the individuals work and if they mind doing this line of sales.

Good luck with the recruiting :)

EXACTLY!
You need to have the ambition to work hard! Thanks.

[LeeBoA]

bump!

[We'reGonnaWin]

Ugh. The warranty on their work is such baloney.

[beetold]

I know its an old thread...but just wanted to make sure....no one get sucked into this..."many managers have made an avg of 16k a year"..********.

Odds are your a first year manager since you didn't give any examples of how you did well...so you really have nothing to go on.

Sure they tell you all this stuff...but theres NO WAY of knowing its true or not. This company is exloiting students and should be shut down..

Oh ya I'm a manager this summer to....worst decision I have ever made.

30% royalty fee they take for doing next to nothing is disgusting...especially when managers profit margins are typically less..

No one support Student Works....No one work for them...unless you want to fuel a terrible company

[iluvmikeharris]

The average wage is around $10/hour which can easily become $12/hour depending on how hard you guys work.

Translation: piecework (manager determines how long they think the job should take you). Only suckers need apply.

[KelvinK]

i dont mean this at a TC post but im just warning students: stay far away

[deep]

I quoted this job at 60 hrs for each of you. What? It took 95? Tough *****.

[sussycat]

Students beware - this is a seriously bad business venture for most. I operated a franchise in south western Ontario about eight years ago, and I personally lost $10 000 of my money (borrowed off of a student line of credit) to this horrible franchise "opportunity". They start off by selecting you because of your 'vast potential,' and you are pressured to sign a 40 page contract laced with legal jargon on the spot, or else you will lose out on this 'valuable opportunity' to the next eager student waiting for their chance - I was told I wasn't even allowed to go over the contract with my parents, for fear of leaking valuable information (I was 19 - an adult, yes, but still pretty naieve). Then there's the "training." You absolutely cannot learn how to properly quote and perform truly professional painting jobs (both interior and exterior, diagnosis, prep, and all), plus all the other nuances of running a business for the 1st time in a 3-day training seminar. I was promised that I would be accompanied for my first three estimates - and believe me, I was good at cold calling, so I found the jobs fast - but my regional supervisor canceled out of meeting me for every single one, stating that I was one of the "best" in the training seminar, so he wasn't worried about me. I lined up a summer full of contracts that were completely undervalued thanks to my stellar "training," and was sunk before I even began. We started work, but every job ran short on money - Student Works Painting takes their 30% cut off of the top of every job, regardless of whether or not you run short, then the paint store was paid, then the workers (they control all payroll activity, too) and then you, the franchisee. The workers are paid by piece-work, so of course they start to quit when the pay gets too low. When I realized about a month in that I was tanking fast, I met with my manager in tears, and told him I wanted to close the franchise because, just going into 2nd year university, I could not afford to lose any more money. He threatened me with a $30,000 law suit if I backed out, because of a stipulation in the contract that I signed that I would be personally responsible for the losses that Student Works Painting Corp. would incur by not having a franchisee in my area. Interestingly enough, he failed to provide me with a copy of my contract, despite multiple verbal and written requests on my part (and that little old thing they call the "law"), and he successfully ducked me for the rest of the summer. Still fearing legal recourse because I had no copy of what I signed, I opted to finish completing the contracts that I had lined up - without searching for new ones - despite knowing that I would be losing money, and I began paying my workers out of pocket just to keep them with me in order to complete the work. This was because in several jobs, after Student Works got their cut, and the paint was mostly paid for, there was nothing left even for my workers (in one case, I paid for some paint out of pocket, too). Then there was the fact that my regional supervisor was also running his own painting business, and would take all of the big contracts from us franchisees - a furniture store, a restaurant/bar, a college - as a FAVOUR to us, because we simply were "not equipped to handle them." Overall, this was a miserable experience - I am approaching 30, and I still have not come close to paying off what I lost from this venture - I was unable to attend law school because of it, despite maintaining a straight A average as an economics major. You simply cannot learn all there is to being a professional painter using the "coles notes guide to painting." I am sure they will try to paint me as an idiot, but believe me, I am far from, and this nightmare could happen to anyone. If you have already committed to them, GET A COPY OF YOUR CONTRACT - they will try to argue this due to "valuable" trade secrets, but it is your right by law - and be very careful; you will be pressured to line up as many jobs as you can, as quickly as you can, and you will be inundated with corporate propaganda newsletters to tell you how much money all the other franchisees are making (in our newsletters, it was always the same 4 people for all of Ontario, and they were all in the GTA). Do not let this affect your estimates, or you will pay in the end. Franchisee beware - I wish you the best of luck.

[AcidBomber]

Students beware - this is a seriously bad business venture for most. I operated a franchise in south western Ontario about eight years ago, and I personally lost $10 000 of my money (borrowed off of a student line of credit) to this horrible franchise "opportunity". They start off by selecting you because of your 'vast potential,' and you are pressured to sign a 40 page contract laced with legal jargon on the spot, or else you will lose out on this 'valuable opportunity' to the next eager student waiting for their chance - I was told I wasn't even allowed to go over the contract with my parents, for fear of leaking valuable information (I was 19 - an adult, yes, but still pretty naieve). Then there's the "training." You absolutely cannot learn how to properly quote and perform truly professional painting jobs (both interior and exterior, diagnosis, prep, and all), plus all the other nuances of running a business for the 1st time in a 3-day training seminar. I was promised that I would be accompanied for my first three estimates - and believe me, I was good at cold calling, so I found the jobs fast - but my regional supervisor canceled out of meeting me for every single one, stating that I was one of the "best" in the training seminar, so he wasn't worried about me. I lined up a summer full of contracts that were completely undervalued thanks to my stellar "training," and was sunk before I even began. We started work, but every job ran short on money - Student Works Painting takes their 30% cut off of the top of every job, regardless of whether or not you run short, then the paint store was paid, then the workers (they control all payroll activity, too) and then you, the franchisee. The workers are paid by piece-work, so of course they start to quit when the pay gets too low. When I realized about a month in that I was tanking fast, I met with my manager in tears, and told him I wanted to close the franchise because, just going into 2nd year university, I could not afford to lose any more money. He threatened me with a $30,000 law suit if I backed out, because of a stipulation in the contract that I signed that I would be personally responsible for the losses that Student Works Painting Corp. would incur by not having a franchisee in my area. Interestingly enough, he failed to provide me with a copy of my contract, despite multiple verbal and written requests on my part (and that little old thing they call the "law"), and he successfully ducked me for the rest of the summer. Still fearing legal recourse because I had no copy of what I signed, I opted to finish completing the contracts that I had lined up - without searching for new ones - despite knowing that I would be losing money, and I began paying my workers out of pocket just to keep them with me in order to complete the work. This was because in several jobs, after Student Works got their cut, and the paint was mostly paid for, there was nothing left even for my workers (in one case, I paid for some paint out of pocket, too). Then there was the fact that my regional supervisor was also running his own painting business, and would take all of the big contracts from us franchisees - a furniture store, a restaurant/bar, a college - as a FAVOUR to us, because we simply were "not equipped to handle them." Overall, this was a miserable experience - I am approaching 30, and I still have not come close to paying off what I lost from this venture - I was unable to attend law school because of it, despite maintaining a straight A average as an economics major. You simply cannot learn all there is to being a professional painter using the "coles notes guide to painting." I am sure they will try to paint me as an idiot, but believe me, I am far from, and this nightmare could happen to anyone. If you have already committed to them, GET A COPY OF YOUR CONTRACT - they will try to argue this due to "valuable" trade secrets, but it is your right by law - and be very careful; you will be pressured to line up as many jobs as you can, as quickly as you can, and you will be inundated with corporate propaganda newsletters to tell you how much money all the other franchisees are making (in our newsletters, it was always the same 4 people for all of Ontario, and they were all in the GTA). Do not let this affect your estimates, or you will pay in the end. Franchisee beware - I wish you the best of luck.



Wow... thanks for sharing your story. Good to know, and good luck. :)

[Trevor457]

I am currently a second year manager with Student Works Painting and it has been a great experience for me. In my first year I made approximately $30k and got a free trip to Mexico at the end of the year. I wouldn't have been able to make anywhere near that amount of money at a regular student job. It is true that some managers make little or no money (or even lose money), but that's the nature of owning a business. You can win big or you can lose big. I agree that some manages arn't given enough support to start out, and am trying to convince the owner of a better way to provide this support. In the mean time, just because you had a bad experience with the company does not mean that everyone will.

[hitek0007]

I am currently a second year manager with Student Works Painting and it has been a great experience for me. In my first year I made approximately $30k and got a free trip to Mexico at the end of the year. I wouldn't have been able to make anywhere near that amount of money at a regular student job. It is true that some managers make little or no money (or even lose money), but that's the nature of owning a business. You can win big or you can lose big. I agree that some manages arn't given enough support to start out, and am trying to convince the owner of a better way to provide this support. In the mean time, just because you had a bad experience with the company does not mean that everyone will.

Note: 1 post only.

[deep]

I am currently a second year manager with Student Works Painting and it has been a great experience for me. In my first year I made approximately $30k and got a free trip to Mexico at the end of the year. I wouldn't have been able to make anywhere near that amount of money at a regular student job. It is true that some managers make little or no money (or even lose money), but that's the nature of owning a business. You can win big or you can lose big. I agree that some manages arn't given enough support to start out, and am trying to convince the owner of a better way to provide this support. In the mean time, just because you had a bad experience with the company does not mean that everyone will.
Note: this post may exceed your FDA mandated daily dose of BS.

Someone is obviously in the early learning stages of gaming social media.

[BornRuff]

Students beware - this is a seriously bad business venture for most. I operated a franchise in south western Ontario about eight years ago, and I personally lost $10 000 of my money (borrowed off of a student line of credit) to this horrible franchise "opportunity". They start off by selecting you because of your 'vast potential,' and you are pressured to sign a 40 page contract laced with legal jargon on the spot, or else you will lose out on this 'valuable opportunity' to the next eager student waiting for their chance - I was told I wasn't even allowed to go over the contract with my parents, for fear of leaking valuable information (I was 19 - an adult, yes, but still pretty naieve). Then there's the "training." You absolutely cannot learn how to properly quote and perform truly professional painting jobs (both interior and exterior, diagnosis, prep, and all), plus all the other nuances of running a business for the 1st time in a 3-day training seminar. I was promised that I would be accompanied for my first three estimates - and believe me, I was good at cold calling, so I found the jobs fast - but my regional supervisor canceled out of meeting me for every single one, stating that I was one of the "best" in the training seminar, so he wasn't worried about me. I lined up a summer full of contracts that were completely undervalued thanks to my stellar "training," and was sunk before I even began. We started work, but every job ran short on money - Student Works Painting takes their 30% cut off of the top of every job, regardless of whether or not you run short, then the paint store was paid, then the workers (they control all payroll activity, too) and then you, the franchisee. The workers are paid by piece-work, so of course they start to quit when the pay gets too low. When I realized about a month in that I was tanking fast, I met with my manager in tears, and told him I wanted to close the franchise because, just going into 2nd year university, I could not afford to lose any more money. He threatened me with a $30,000 law suit if I backed out, because of a stipulation in the contract that I signed that I would be personally responsible for the losses that Student Works Painting Corp. would incur by not having a franchisee in my area. Interestingly enough, he failed to provide me with a copy of my contract, despite multiple verbal and written requests on my part (and that little old thing they call the "law"), and he successfully ducked me for the rest of the summer. Still fearing legal recourse because I had no copy of what I signed, I opted to finish completing the contracts that I had lined up - without searching for new ones - despite knowing that I would be losing money, and I began paying my workers out of pocket just to keep them with me in order to complete the work. This was because in several jobs, after Student Works got their cut, and the paint was mostly paid for, there was nothing left even for my workers (in one case, I paid for some paint out of pocket, too). Then there was the fact that my regional supervisor was also running his own painting business, and would take all of the big contracts from us franchisees - a furniture store, a restaurant/bar, a college - as a FAVOUR to us, because we simply were "not equipped to handle them." Overall, this was a miserable experience - I am approaching 30, and I still have not come close to paying off what I lost from this venture - I was unable to attend law school because of it, despite maintaining a straight A average as an economics major. You simply cannot learn all there is to being a professional painter using the "coles notes guide to painting." I am sure they will try to paint me as an idiot, but believe me, I am far from, and this nightmare could happen to anyone. If you have already committed to them, GET A COPY OF YOUR CONTRACT - they will try to argue this due to "valuable" trade secrets, but it is your right by law - and be very careful; you will be pressured to line up as many jobs as you can, as quickly as you can, and you will be inundated with corporate propaganda newsletters to tell you how much money all the other franchisees are making (in our newsletters, it was always the same 4 people for all of Ontario, and they were all in the GTA). Do not let this affect your estimates, or you will pay in the end. Franchisee beware - I wish you the best of luck.

I guess this shows how they are not a very good support system for you.

It is also a good example though of why you should walk before you run. You should definitely see how much it actually costs to paint a house before locking yourself into a whole summers worth of jobs.

[BornRuff]

Note: 1 post only.


Note: this post may exceed your FDA mandated daily dose of BS.

Someone is obviously in the early learning stages of gaming social media.

Seems funny that people don't point that out when people are arguing against the company.

[angekfire]

Students beware - this is a seriously bad business venture for most. I operated a franchise in south western Ontario about eight years ago, and I personally lost $10 000 of my money (borrowed off of a student line of credit) to this horrible franchise "opportunity". They start off by selecting you because of your 'vast potential,' and you are pressured to sign a 40 page contract laced with legal jargon on the spot, or else you will lose out on this 'valuable opportunity' to the next eager student waiting for their chance - I was told I wasn't even allowed to go over the contract with my parents, for fear of leaking valuable information (I was 19 - an adult, yes, but still pretty naieve). Then there's the "training." You absolutely cannot learn how to properly quote and perform truly professional painting jobs (both interior and exterior, diagnosis, prep, and all), plus all the other nuances of running a business for the 1st time in a 3-day training seminar. I was promised that I would be accompanied for my first three estimates - and believe me, I was good at cold calling, so I found the jobs fast - but my regional supervisor canceled out of meeting me for every single one, stating that I was one of the "best" in the training seminar, so he wasn't worried about me. I lined up a summer full of contracts that were completely undervalued thanks to my stellar "training," and was sunk before I even began. We started work, but every job ran short on money - Student Works Painting takes their 30% cut off of the top of every job, regardless of whether or not you run short, then the paint store was paid, then the workers (they control all payroll activity, too) and then you, the franchisee. The workers are paid by piece-work, so of course they start to quit when the pay gets too low. When I realized about a month in that I was tanking fast, I met with my manager in tears, and told him I wanted to close the franchise because, just going into 2nd year university, I could not afford to lose any more money. He threatened me with a $30,000 law suit if I backed out, because of a stipulation in the contract that I signed that I would be personally responsible for the losses that Student Works Painting Corp. would incur by not having a franchisee in my area. Interestingly enough, he failed to provide me with a copy of my contract, despite multiple verbal and written requests on my part (and that little old thing they call the "law"), and he successfully ducked me for the rest of the summer. Still fearing legal recourse because I had no copy of what I signed, I opted to finish completing the contracts that I had lined up - without searching for new ones - despite knowing that I would be losing money, and I began paying my workers out of pocket just to keep them with me in order to complete the work. This was because in several jobs, after Student Works got their cut, and the paint was mostly paid for, there was nothing left even for my workers (in one case, I paid for some paint out of pocket, too). Then there was the fact that my regional supervisor was also running his own painting business, and would take all of the big contracts from us franchisees - a furniture store, a restaurant/bar, a college - as a FAVOUR to us, because we simply were "not equipped to handle them." Overall, this was a miserable experience - I am approaching 30, and I still have not come close to paying off what I lost from this venture - I was unable to attend law school because of it, despite maintaining a straight A average as an economics major. You simply cannot learn all there is to being a professional painter using the "coles notes guide to painting." I am sure they will try to paint me as an idiot, but believe me, I am far from, and this nightmare could happen to anyone. If you have already committed to them, GET A COPY OF YOUR CONTRACT - they will try to argue this due to "valuable" trade secrets, but it is your right by law - and be very careful; you will be pressured to line up as many jobs as you can, as quickly as you can, and you will be inundated with corporate propaganda newsletters to tell you how much money all the other franchisees are making (in our newsletters, it was always the same 4 people for all of Ontario, and they were all in the GTA). Do not let this affect your estimates, or you will pay in the end. Franchisee beware - I wish you the best of luck.

Do I know you? One of my friends was in a very similar situation. He was a manager, had a number of people working under him. Eventually he started losing money, and when he went to quit, they slapped him with a massive bill for breaking the contract or something, IRC is was around 16k. He was also a university student. He ended up having a breakdown, and is now on a bunch of medication to fight the depression that this caused him a few years ago. I knew 2 of his employees too, and they vouched for his story.

I had another friend who did the painting over a summer, not as a manager, just a painter, and he ended up getting screwed over by the whole under-quoting, and thus they got less pay for more work.

I'd say to avoid these things like the plague.

[BornRuff]

Do I know you? One of my friends was in a very similar situation. He was a manager, had a number of people working under him. Eventually he started losing money, and when he went to quit, they slapped him with a massive bill for breaking the contract or something, IRC is was around 16k. He was also a university student. He ended up having a breakdown, and is now on a bunch of medication to fight the depression that this caused him a few years ago. I knew 2 of his employees too, and they vouched for his story.

I had another friend who did the painting over a summer, not as a manager, just a painter, and he ended up getting screwed over by the whole under-quoting, and thus they got less pay for more work.

I'd say to avoid these things like the plague.

I think that clause where they can sue you if you quit is probably the largest issue with this, especially if it is not clearly explained before kids sign on. I think it sets up a situation where the company has little incentive to see you succeed. If they are going to market it as an opportunity for students, they should work with you enough to at least make sure you are not loosing money.

I think that the way they promote it as something that any student can do is very wrong if they have these sorts of clauses in the contract.

Overall, the terms of the deal are not very out there for a turn key franchise opportunity. I think they just need to be more up front with students about the nature of owning a business, and provide some sort of support to avoid these situations where people are being forced to work all summer even though a mistake has made it impossible to make a profit from the start.

[lsmith999]

I am a college student who interviewed with a guy named Johnny Ziomek of College Works Painting Irvine for a job painting. He did a group interview in San Diego. Afterwards he said I was one of those who got the job and asked me to go to a job site at 7 am the following day where I and 2 other people worked for 4 hours. After that, he said it was just a test and sent 2 of us home unpaid. We were stunned. This guy takes advantage of young people and uneducated people.

[robster77]

Does Student Works do a good job painting? My wife wants to get them in to paint the house.

[svelten]

Do I know you? One of my friends was in a very similar situation. He was a manager, had a number of people working under him. Eventually he started losing money, and when he went to quit, they slapped him with a massive bill for breaking the contract or something, IRC is was around 16k. He was also a university student. He ended up having a breakdown, and is now on a bunch of medication to fight the depression that this caused him a few years ago. I knew 2 of his employees too, and they vouched for his story.

I had another friend who did the painting over a summer, not as a manager, just a painter, and he ended up getting screwed over by the whole under-quoting, and thus they got less pay for more work.

I'd say to avoid these things like the plague.


Wow that is simply terrible. I can't imagine things being that bad to deliver a breakdown. I did this, both as a painter and subsequently a manager the next year roughly 5 summers ago and I feel enough time has gone by for me to discuss about my experience objectively.

For painters, the system is known as "piecework" and your wage will largely depend on which manager you were working for. Stingy ones will severely underpay you, especially if you are fairly new at painting by claiming a certain area will require "2 hours" to paint, but in reality it will reasonably require any painter 4 hours or more. If you rush through the section and paint poorly, they will ask you to repaint the area. If this consistently happens, you can see how your $10 or $12 per hour rate quickly drops to $5 or less. You can make literally below third world country child labor wages busting your ass on a 30 ft ladder, risking your life while baking in the hot sun on top of black roofing. And half the time it is through no fault of your own; just your manager severely underestimating the cost of the house. Of course it is understandble; royalties are over 30% so if the manager wants to make any money at all, he will be charging his client an average price but paying painters way under market value so he can afford the paint and royalties.

On the flip side, if your manager has his head screwed on right, knows what he's doing, and is charming enough to sell and convince his clients to pay well above average prices for painting you will be rewarded fairly enough; ie a 4 hour job will actually take 4 hours. Your interview with your employer/manager as a painter should be more of YOU asking THEM questions on how they manage and how their job sites are rather than how you paint; they really often don't care and give you the worst of training.

For the managers, the stakes are obviously higher. People who are claiming 30k incomes are likely purporting half-truths; that is yes, they probably did rake in gross 30k, but have not yet calculated how many hours they've spent, how much equipment they had to purchase and how much gas they had to use running around. Still, it is entirely possible to make that amount, although I guarantee it is not from "just one summer". The 30k'ers have to be on the ball by January until August, and work well beyond a 40 hour work week throughout that entire duration. I really cannot emphasize enough how important it is for managers to:

1. Hire good painters. Forget the younger students; they are unmotivated, lazy, have a sense of entitlement and will complain about your "unfair piecework" (justifiably or not, you have to watch for your account balance at this point) constantly. Instead, contract out your work to a couple of really skilled labourers and negotiate a rate for each job site. You'll end up with far fewer headaches and a clear picture of how much money you'll get from the job site, and peace of mind that your painters will not royally **** up the house by spilling paint around or forgetting to paint crucial areas.

2. Don't paint yourself. You are a manager. You don't have time for that. Forget about maximizing bottom line; sell jobs and get more seasoned skilled painters to contract your work to. Ideally your profit margins are going to suck per house (think a couple hundred on a 3 grand job), but at least they -will- be profitable for you and you will have done very little work to get those 2 bills. Forget all those inflated numbers the parent company tells you on what your ideal profit should be - they are a joke and are not realistic at all. Unless you're able to ridiculously overprice the value of your house (you can try this out if you have 36C cups and great legs), you will face stiff competition from other painting gigs and you'll likely have to sell at market value.

3. Refuse warranty work whenever possible. Give it to someone else. Quickly subcontract it to one of your seasoned painters and pocket the net $5 you'll make -- Student Works and College Pro totally rips you off on these. It's basically volunteer work and a waste of your time.

4. Give your clients options on whether they want to use the ICI paint. Just because Student Works signed a contract with that company doesn't mean it's your best option.

5. Do not EVER, EVER undersell just to get a signature. You WILL be tempted and succumb to instructing your painters to cut corners to make up for the lower margins. Then you'll end up having to redo some areas or even replace damaged property due to the ****ups your painters will invariably subject you and your client to because they are pressured/rushed to finish a job that they are only paid half the time to do. This is how like 99% of managers end up losing money.

6. Insurance. You have it. Don't let Student Works boss you out of it when **** hits the fan. They used scare tactics and threatened me not to use it 5 years ago, but in the contract you signed (By the way, I obtained a copy of mine -- I have no idea why the poster above could not get a copy of his.) it entitles you to it.

7. Get commercial property if you can. I have no advice on how to do this, but these are by far the most profitable and most of the top-10 earners each season used these extensively.

Summary:
-Hire guys who already know how to paint so you won't have to supervise them. Do not hire kids/students.
-Accept lower profit margins per house, but concentrate on getting 3, 4, even 5 or 6 simultaneous job sites at once.
-Don't undersell. Don't ridiculously price your estimates either. Sell at the market value and use a combination of your youthful charm, good employees and perceived professional name brand.
-Spend as much time marketing as possible. Don't take any time off, do it every day, every weekend. If you signed onto this, forget about having a summer; you're in it to not end up like half the managers and lose money. Call people, place ads in newspapers, knock on doors, etc.



Damn I used my entire lunch break to type this out. I hope someone finds use in this and won't screw up like the example above, leading into depressions and breakdowns. Overall, I found the experience to be very valuable and it gave me much more confidence in dealing with all sorts of people, contributing to my personal and professional growth. Do not make the serious missteps and I think you will have found it worthwhile -- I still get asked about it and discuss my management experience in my resume. In my opinion, it truly does count as "management experience" since you deal with all aspects of it, albeit on a lower level.

[svelten]

Does Student Works do a good job painting? My wife wants to get them in to paint the house.

They vary greatly from manager to manager; some can be absolutely terrible, most are decent. Look at the manager who is selling you the paint job, and ask to see who his employees are in particular and ask about their backgrounds in painting. If possible, ask for samples of their work.

[Black-Jays]

If you don't mind dishonest managers, then being a painter for Student Works Painting is the right job for you. The system is set up so that managers are able to rip off employees. My advice would be to keep track of your paiting hours and colding calling hours. I guess I learned a valuable lesson because I learned to be careful of who I trust. I know many people that run respectable businesses and giving employees their fair share. If I know my manager is going to gip me, then I will likely gip the manager back. I know that some managers are not like this and it is not my intent to label Student Works Painting as a whole as being dishonest, but a few incidences may deter students from working for the company. This is a problem because managers are having problems finding painters and a few managers can ruin it for the rest of the managers. The system is set up so that managers can gip their employees and can have a great impact on the company's reputation.

[Black-Jays]

This job has no security and I think it is important that student should be FULLY aware of this. No president will tell you this because it will deter students from being employed with this company. This job is appropriate for people that are able to tolerate unstable conditions. For example, students can be expected to work a range of 0 hours to 60 hours per week. This varies based on the number of jobs cancelled at the last minute (this happens often). Students who want steady summer employment should avoid this job.

The manager expects painters to follow the Student Works Painting manual piously. The manager would be reciting word-for-word of the manual and that is not the purpose of the manual.

The manager does not give periodic evaluations which I was surprised because evaluations are a critical part in communication between employees and their managers. I would like to know what I am doing wrong and what I am doing right. Managers that expect me to approach things a certain way cannot expect me to because I am not a mind reader.

P.S. Customer who are thinking of putting down a deposit to secure their bookings do not do this because it is a scam because they are not likely to cancel your booking anyways. The only reason why they suggest customers put a deposit down is so that they have money to pay materials before the job has occured and that if you cancel they still have your deposit without incurring any expenses.

[Black-Jays]

I quoted this job at 60 hrs for each of you. What? It took 95? Tough *****.


I know what you mean. My manager expected me and my friend to complete a house in two days. I think professional painters take longer to complete a house and how would you expect students to complete a house in that amount of time.

[Black-Jays]

Students beware - this is a seriously bad business venture for most. I operated a franchise in south western Ontario about eight years ago, and I personally lost $10 000 of my money (borrowed off of a student line of credit) to this horrible franchise "opportunity". They start off by selecting you because of your 'vast potential,' and you are pressured to sign a 40 page contract laced with legal jargon on the spot, or else you will lose out on this 'valuable opportunity' to the next eager student waiting for their chance - I was told I wasn't even allowed to go over the contract with my parents, for fear of leaking valuable information (I was 19 - an adult, yes, but still pretty naieve). Then there's the "training." You absolutely cannot learn how to properly quote and perform truly professional painting jobs (both interior and exterior, diagnosis, prep, and all), plus all the other nuances of running a business for the 1st time in a 3-day training seminar. I was promised that I would be accompanied for my first three estimates - and believe me, I was good at cold calling, so I found the jobs fast - but my regional supervisor canceled out of meeting me for every single one, stating that I was one of the "best" in the training seminar, so he wasn't worried about me. I lined up a summer full of contracts that were completely undervalued thanks to my stellar "training," and was sunk before I even began. We started work, but every job ran short on money - Student Works Painting takes their 30% cut off of the top of every job, regardless of whether or not you run short, then the paint store was paid, then the workers (they control all payroll activity, too) and then you, the franchisee. The workers are paid by piece-work, so of course they start to quit when the pay gets too low. When I realized about a month in that I was tanking fast, I met with my manager in tears, and told him I wanted to close the franchise because, just going into 2nd year university, I could not afford to lose any more money. He threatened me with a $30,000 law suit if I backed out, because of a stipulation in the contract that I signed that I would be personally responsible for the losses that Student Works Painting Corp. would incur by not having a franchisee in my area. Interestingly enough, he failed to provide me with a copy of my contract, despite multiple verbal and written requests on my part (and that little old thing they call the "law"), and he successfully ducked me for the rest of the summer. Still fearing legal recourse because I had no copy of what I signed, I opted to finish completing the contracts that I had lined up - without searching for new ones - despite knowing that I would be losing money, and I began paying my workers out of pocket just to keep them with me in order to complete the work. This was because in several jobs, after Student Works got their cut, and the paint was mostly paid for, there was nothing left even for my workers (in one case, I paid for some paint out of pocket, too). Then there was the fact that my regional supervisor was also running his own painting business, and would take all of the big contracts from us franchisees - a furniture store, a restaurant/bar, a college - as a FAVOUR to us, because we simply were "not equipped to handle them." Overall, this was a miserable experience - I am approaching 30, and I still have not come close to paying off what I lost from this venture - I was unable to attend law school because of it, despite maintaining a straight A average as an economics major. You simply cannot learn all there is to being a professional painter using the "coles notes guide to painting." I am sure they will try to paint me as an idiot, but believe me, I am far from, and this nightmare could happen to anyone. If you have already committed to them, GET A COPY OF YOUR CONTRACT - they will try to argue this due to "valuable" trade secrets, but it is your right by law - and be very careful; you will be pressured to line up as many jobs as you can, as quickly as you can, and you will be inundated with corporate propaganda newsletters to tell you how much money all the other franchisees are making (in our newsletters, it was always the same 4 people for all of Ontario, and they were all in the GTA). Do not let this affect your estimates, or you will pay in the end. Franchisee beware - I wish you the best of luck.

I mean you're providing them 30 % of your gross amount and they don't even provide you with adequate training.

[Black-Jays]

They vary greatly from manager to manager; some can be absolutely terrible, most are decent. Look at the manager who is selling you the paint job, and ask to see who his employees are in particular and ask about their backgrounds in painting. If possible, ask for samples of their work.

It depends on the painter and the manager. Some painters may "cut corners" to get the job done earlier than the budgeted time. Usually if the customer does not notice, it is not likely to be painted or will not get a second coat.

[Black-Jays]

Note: this post may exceed your FDA mandated daily dose of BS.

Someone is obviously in the early learning stages of gaming social media.


I think that students should know the other side of the story instead of being presented with biased stats (ex. such as income). I am curious how those stats were obtained and what proportion of the lower income bracket was eliminated.

[anassrat]

Reading through the long list of different comments with different opinions one thing stands out. I noticed that some people are commenting about other companies and I want to start off by saying that Student Works is not College Works. I guess this shows that when someone has a bad experience they will do whatever they can to complain about it. Any big company like Student Works that has been around for 25 years will definitely have some people that do not like it. The same goes to all large companies like Microsoft etc.

I can only talk about my experience which is a positive one. I have been with the company for 4 years now and I am going into my 5th year. To summarize my remarks I would say that I got an experience that no other university student can dream of and I made great income. I averaged about $15,000 each summer as a manager, but I definitely worked hard to earn it and I can see how some people complain about the income they might have made because you can't make this money without working hard. This was the first thing told to me when I was hired as a manager. I do not know anyone else around me that could match the sales, marketing and HR skills I gained over the last 4 years. At the end of this year which is my final year with SWP I am have been offered a job to run a business that generates revenue of over $400,000 a week. This is something that I am grateful to for Student Works and the hard work I have put in over the years. I wish the best of luck for anyone that pursues this program. With regards to some of the clients that posted their unhappy comments all I will say is that like any business there are definitely employees that should have not been kept in the business who ended up painting your house.

Just my 2 cents!

[PollosG]

Mmmm..

Delicious dredged up thread from '08.

[angekfire]

I had 2 friends work seperately for different college type painting companies. Both said they were a waste of time, and they would never go back to it. One of my friends worked for another friend in fact, who was a manager, who basically got screwed by the company and forced into bankruptcy, and then had a nervous breakdown. All because of these college painter's business. I'd say avoid it, quite frankly, but none of the experience I have with them is first hand.

[BananaHunter]

Anyone with true business sense would realize that 30% is ludicrous. You're better off starting your own brand. Do you think all these "University Painters" companies instill conifdence in the customers? They provide you with next to nothing for that 30%. You're still soliciting your own clients, hiring your own staff, and paying them too (sometimes from your pockets).

All the success stories posted are shams I suspect. If you're truly hard working and had even half a brain, you'd go for a better way to make money. Some of the posters must have an interest in promoting the company.

Painting itself is a silly industry. How many people actually call professional painters? It's mostly businesses that require professional painters. Many households are capable of painting their own property. Do you think having a bunch of inexperienced punks doing the job is desirable to these companies? The market is oversaturated with supply of painters. Just the fact that they only select students should hint that they are preying on the naive. By now, surely the reputation of this company is tarnished and no one would hire them if they want a professional job done.

Do yourself a favor: If you want to get into entrepreneurship, don't JOIN something. START something and make your network join YOU. When you pull this off, that's when you know you have the leadership to actually start a business.

[6up]

My godfather did some major time at ICI/Glidden/Seco and presently Benjamin Moore. He wont sell paint to any student painter crew unless they pay with cash. Yes, they do quick and subpar work for cheap! Yes they cut corners like no tomorrow.

Pretty basic mathematics too. Lets say they claim sky is the limit for summer earning potential and the avg is 12,000 (for 4 months) If you hustling 60++hrs/week, you are slaving away for $12++/hr. And that hourly figure drops when you racing the clock and logging 70-80hrs/wk.

[angekfire]

It's a lot like springmasters or pyramid schemes. Sure, you COULD make some good money. But the odds are not in your favor.

[figment]

I Read through this thread, seems pretty risky if your up for the challenge then I suppose. The 30% cut seems pretty dumb, what do they honestly offer that you can't do yourself? If you really want a painting business you don't need to be giving away money to people who practically do nothing for you.

Absolute 100% pyramid though, the amount of BS on their website is incredible

Thread title should be Hiring peons and saps who wanna get taken advantage of, apply today!

Fortunately luck came my way and I got a decent summer job

[cock]

It sounds like a challenging position to be a manager because the company takes 30% of what you make causing you to rip-off your employees. I remember when I had my orientation with U of T College pro painters had a booth telling all us kids how much money we could make if we landed a summer position with them. Of course I signed up but they never called me back anyway. I am not a student anymore. But if something requires me to take advantage or mislead people, I would not be able to do it due to my my morals and values. I know some people can throw all that out the window if they can make $30,000 a summer but it would be extrememly difficult for me.

That's why I didn't last 3 months selling Cutco knives. I felt like I was selling expensive knives to family friends and friends' families.. knives they didn't even need.. I sold like 2 decent sized sets, one was to a close friend of my mom's and the other to my mom's insurance guy. The thing is people at Vector Marketing don't give a **** why people buy. they even told me people buy for all sorts of reasons. These people have no shame if they know they can make a lot of money. they don't give a rat's ass that you're selling overpriced knives to people in your network.. knives they really don't need.. I'm sure most people are fine with what they already have. I couldn't keep asking people to buy a $1100 set of knives so I left. I know there are cheaper sets but still. End rant.

[iamatuna]

Hey

just finished reading all of this and everything here has some merit based on my experience running a SWP company this summer.

Overall i would say that this job has been (all be it a very hard and stressful summer) a good summer where i have learned much more than i would have in say a normal 9-5 job. It has taught me how to literally start a business from scratch and make it successful. It teaches you the core elements needed to run a company and all of the turmoils that you will endure. It is by no means for those who are looking to make easy money because it is not easy money, you work hard for every dollar....some times very seemingly unfairly hard.

Just a few notes i would like to throw out there though.

Painters: I understand why there are horror and glory stories regarding this. PAINTING IS NOT EASY AND SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN TO THOSE WHO HAVE NO WORK ETHIC (sorry thats what is plaguing me right now). If a painter is unfairly paid i guarantee you that it is not the managers intention; no one sets out with the intent to cheap out there employees. This generally happens when things go wrong; things go wrong because either people who are not fit for the job are given the job or are not trained properly. There is a huge push on us to produce as much as we can as fast as we can from head office, from clients from everywhere but you must resist. I hired on 2 painters a month or so ago who i should have fired a week in but because or work loads i did not and it has been nothing but headaches causing my successful and driven painters to fall behind due to a lack of attention from my part.

Some advice.
For managers:
only hire hard working painters, ask them for situations where they have shown this. If they are not working out, Get rid of them, it is better for them (they can move on and not get frustrated and pissed) and yourself (less headaches)
For painters:
Keep track of your own hours and more importantly how fast you painted what (biggest complaint i have is one person on a team going fast while the other loafs). If you do not think it is for you it probably is not.

I would like to go into more detail but in all honesty im sick as a dog, thats how i found this site.

In Summary what i want to say is

For Managers:
YOUR EMPLOYEES WILL MAKE OR BRAKE YOU. TREAT THEM WELL AND THEY WILL MAKE YOU RICH. PISS THEM OFF AND YOU WILL PAY.
only hire those who are qualified and properly train them, do not speed through it because you have "other things to do". The time you invest properly training an employee making sure they have all of the tools needed to do their job will make them more money, you more money, them happier and yourself happier.YOUR EMPLOYEES WILL MAKE OR BRAKE YOU!
Always market: i would recommend hiring a team to do this because you should be doing estimates, not marketing, everyone wins when more jobs come in. Pay your marketers well, train them well and they will save you many headaches which will in the end make you more money.

For Painters:
If you do not think your manager is up to it, dont waste your time. Their is a huge learning curve to this job for managers and at first we really dont know what we are doing. If you manager is in their second+ year you should be in the clear but if not then its up to you. Good Luck

For Clients:
I hope all of your jobs go very well. None of us ever mean for a site to go poorly, we all want to give all of our clients the best job and do what we say but things get out of control fast when you are just learning, making mistakes and still learning from them. I really do hope all goes well but i would recommend what i said for the painters. If they are in there first year....be wary; even if they painted before.....be wary.

All in all i would say that this summer has been a fantastic learning experience. I have made the same amount of money that i have the past years working at restaurant, construction, lab work but i have enjoyed this job more than the others; being your own boss really is what its made out to be.

anyway i digress. I hope this was helpful to someone out there. I cant urge how important it is to hire good help for managers and for painters to be wary of first years. Its a tricky business that can be vastly rewarding financially and in the skills gained; however it can also be a nightmare come to life its all how you make it and who you hire.

YOUR EMPLOYEES WILL MAKE OR BREAK YOU

My 2 cents

[toronto_xyz]

It depends on how you look at it. If you work really hard, then you can learn so much stuff from this line of business, even if it is grossly unfair to you.
It's easy to work average and blame on the system for not making money. But if you want to be top 2% and actually turn in profit, it takes hard work, dedication, and persistence. If you can actually turn a profit, then you can succeed in other jobs or business as well in the future. It depends on how you look at it.

I used to work in door-to-door job which is commission only. Yeah, 90% of people joined and left the company without earning more than 200 bucks. Some people worked a week without earning more than 30 bucks. For the first week, I worked 6 days without earning a cent, second week, 160 bucks. But at the end of summer, I was earning fairly good and was able to put into my resume as a successful experience, which helped me land a permanent job upon graduation. I looked at my first few weeks of earning no money as an investment. It all depends on how you look at it.

[ppffffpp]

I was and still am apart of the Student Works program. I believe I have learned more through the program than I have through my 3 years of university. Although my results in the program have been way better than average, in my first summer I made over $40,000 in profit. In my second summer I made about another $40,000 in profit. I have now bought a house this year that I am renting out with my earnings.

However, I would never tell anyone getting into this program that they will make this much. Most make about $8000-$10000 in their first summer. On top of this you learn and refine skills that will give you an edge in future career choices that will put you on top of your peers.

Are there people who have had bad experiences? Absolutely. The program has about 175-200 managers each year and has been around since the mid 80's. With so many people going through the program it isn't unreasonable for a good program to have a few bad experiences. Most of these bad experiences can be attributed to people not working hard enough or smart enough. The program requires 70-80 hours a week some weeks which is mentioned right up front. Working smart would be consulting with free coaching that is provided in order to ensure decisions make good business sense. Combining hard work as well as fully utilizing the resources made available it would be very difficult to have a summer where you didn't make at least $8000 as well as learned a whole bunch.

If you have any questions or don't believe me please respond and I will do my best to show you that I am telling the truth and why this program is not a "scam".

Peter