Helicopter parents

[Spidey]

Since the fall and we moved, I have been in charge of getting my kids to school. My wife works the opposite direction of school and I don't, so I drop them off, etc, etc.

What Ive noticed a lot since the fall, and don't know why this morning I decided to post, is this.

Parents that do everything for their kids.

This morning I watched as almost every mother and father helped their kids take their jackets and boots off, hung up everything including their backpack, while their kids just stood their helpless.

And these kids were 7,8,9 years old.

In my opinion I think this is bad for the kids, because they don't learn to do anything or have to deal with anything because mom & dad do everything for them.

I understand wanting to spend time with your kids, and I do as well, but I go into the school with my 2 kids, but I don't stand there and undress them when they are capable of doing it themselves.

If the parents continue this with their kids, wont they grow up knowing that mom and dad will be there for them for everything, and they don't have to deal with consequences.

Ive had my kids call me at work because they forgot their lunch, and we used to take it to them. But then they kept forgetting it more and more, because we would "save" them

Then we started saying "sorry you forgot it, but I cant help you" Now they never forget their lunch. Sure a hard lesson to learn for them, but they did learn from this.

I know I'm going to get flamed on this, because tons of parents will says its mean, but if kids aren't taught to deal with stuff, wont they carry that into their teenage years and young adult years, knowing mom & dad will always save the no matter what happens.

And Ive seen this happen at the college, parents there making sure Little Johnny and Sally fill out the forms correctly, standing in line with them, etc

[CSK'sMom]

Not mean at all Spidey, responsible IMO. I've watched the same thing over the years and have seen the end results. Kids that can't seem to do anything for themselves, even the most mundane of normal everyday things like wiping their own butts. I kid you not, our 12 yr old has a friend that will not wipe her own butt, Mommy has always done it for her and continues to! I always thought that our job as parents was to teach our kids how to be self-supporting, responsible adults. Part of that is to teach them how to do everything that they will have to do for themselves one day. :confused:

[brendonp]

I'm with you as well Spidey!

I do help my daughter in and out of her snowsuit, but then she's only 1.5 years old. However, I'm always giving instruction "arm in", "leg in", "boots on", etc, etc and she can actually do her jacket and boots now by herself - just takes a crazy long amount of time right now... (so she's on weekend duty, and I take the week days)


I kid you not, our 12 yr old has a friend that will not wipe her own butt, Mommy has always done it for her and continues to!

This I can't quite believe!

[Spidey]

Not mean at all Spidey, responsible IMO. I've watched the same thing over the years and have seen the end results. Kids that can't seem to do anything for themselves, even the most mundane of normal everyday things like wiping their own butts. I kid you not, our 12 yr old has a friend that will not wipe her own butt, Mommy has always done it for her and continues to! I always thought that our job as parents was to teach our kids how to be self-supporting, responsible adults. Part of that is to teach them how to do everything that they will have to do for themselves one day. :confused:

12 years old and that happens. God thats gonna be a nightmare when they get older. Thas just gonna screw the kids up for life

[CSK'sMom]

I just shake me head at this kid. She has been coddled her whole life, Mommy does absolutely everything for her. She cuts her food on her plate for her, still helps her get dressed, etc. IMO, Mommy is way more concerned with being a friend than a parent. It's the whole "I want my kid to like me" syndrome...

[Spidey]

I just shake me head at this kid. She has been coddled her whole life, Mommy does absolutely everything for her. She cuts her food on her plate for her, still helps her get dressed, etc. IMO, Mommy is way more concerned with being a friend than a parent. It's the whole "I want my kid to like me" syndrome...

And that kid will walk all over them as they get older. Plus the real world will eat her alive when she leaves home, if she ever will

[CSK'sMom]

Absolutely Spidey. I see it already with this kid. She is starting to be mocked by the other kids as they realize what's going on. Let's face it, it's not hard to see that it's not "normal" to have your Mommy following you around in grade 7 doing everything for you. I hate to see what's going to happen when she gets to highschool in a couple of years. :rolleyes:

[Spidey]

Absolutely Spidey. I see it already with this kid. She is starting to be mocked by the other kids as they realize what's going on. Let's face it, it's not hard to see that it's not "normal" to have your Mommy following you around in grade 7 doing everything for you. I hate to see what's going to happen when she gets to highschool in a couple of years. :rolleyes:

Well she will defintly get bullied, if shes not already. With no backbone to speak of and having everything handed to her. But is it the kids fault or the parents.

Occasionally my kids play the helpless card, but its less and less as time goes on, because we dont help them. If youve done something a bunch of times before, why would I get it for you

My favorite, can you get me a glass of water/milk when we are having supper.

[kellya]

lol...the kids in our school would be out of luck if they were like that. Parents aren't allowed in to the school. My daughter (5 and in SK) lines up at the door with her classmates and her teacher escorts them in. I watch her until she is inside the school and then I leave.

FWIW I am a big believer in getting kids to do things on their own. My 3 year old is quite capable in getting his clothing/outerwear on his own. He sometimes needs a bit of help with his gloves and scarf but everything else he does on his own.

[almostfreeman]

In the future kids will evolve without legs ... as they will no longer be necessary to get to school since they are all chauffeur driven.

[Spidey]

In the future kids will evolve without legs ... as they will no longer be necessary to get to school since they are all chauffeur driven.

Aint that the truth. My kids always walked to school till this fall. Now we live out of town and they cant get bused, so I have to drive them. Wish I didnt though. But I give them enough work out here to do on the weekends to make up for it :lol:

[3weddings]

I am bashed often because I believe in independent children. From the time mine went to school in JK, I have ensured they knew how to get themselves undressed and settled at school. It irks me to no end to see parents smother their kids, as that IMO is all they are doing.

I too have not accomodated my kids if they have forgotten something. There are three of them in school at the same time....they can share their lunches!
Sorry you forgot your sneakers honey......that's your responsibility too!

Spidey, CSKsMom....I knew were all on the same track with our kids....congrats!

As for that little girl, how sad that her parents are encouraging her dependence on them

[Bullseye]

My kids are still very young, but I don't think this will be a problem for us. Our 2.5 year old is already pretty independant for his age, he mostly dresses and undresses himself, and eats without much assistance (just cutting). No worries about attachment, either, he barely even looks back when we leave him with sitters.

I see the smothering thing all the time, though. My co-worker won't even leave her 13 year old alone for a couple hours in the evening so she can do a night class. What would he eat? How would he put himself to bed?

Geez...when I was 13, my parents would go away overnight all the time, with me in charge of my three younger siblings.

[Spidey]

My kids are still very young, but I don't think this will be a problem for us. Our 2.5 year old is already pretty independant for his age, he mostly dresses and undresses himself, and eats without much assistance (just cutting). No worries about attachment, either, he barely even looks back when we leave him with sitters.

I see the smothering thing all the time, though. My co-worker won't even leave her 13 year old alone for a couple hours in the evening so she can do a night class. What would he eat? How would he put himself to bed?

Geez...when I was 13, my parents would go away overnight all the time, with me in charge of my three younger siblings.

really its not the kids fault at all, but the parents. If you wont let a kid do anything, they wont do it.

Ours are very independant as well. Weekends are nice now since they make their own breakfasts now. My oldest will be 11 soon so he helps out the other 2. Breakfast consist of ceral or instant oatmeal mostly. Sometime the oldest will make eggs as well.

They also makes their own lunches at night, as well as put away their own clothes after laundry is done.

[mrcantrell]

My co-worker won't even leave her 13 year old alone for a couple hours in the evening so she can do a night class. What would he eat? How would he put himself to bed?

Yikes, when I was 13 I had a paper route and looked after my parents store all alone. No one followed me around!

As for the 'what would he eat?' I know parents like that, the husband and kids sit on the sofa watching TV until the mother gets home and makes dinner... even if it's 7 or 8pm they don't lift a finger. Even worse, she makes different things for all of them (16, 18 & 55 yo males) because this one won't eat that and the other one won't eat what the first one likes.

Both kids have jobs and Mommy and Daddy leave work at all hours of the day to go pick this one up at school and drop him and work, and pick up the other and take him from one campus to the other. I said "They both work, tell them to buy a car... or better yet a bus pass!"

I wonder what I would have turned out like being coddled like that.

[Spidey]

Yikes, when I was 13 I had a paper route and looked after my parents store all alone. No one followed me around!

As for the 'what would he eat?' I know parents like that, the husband and kids sit on the sofa watching TV until the mother gets home and makes dinner... even if it's 7 or 8pm they don't lift a finger. Even worse, she makes different things for all of them (16, 18 & 55 yo males) because this one won't eat that and the other one won't eat what the first one likes.

Both kids have jobs and Mommy and Daddy leave work at all hours of the day to go pick this one up at school and drop him and work, and pick up the other and take him from one campus to the other. I said "They both work, tell them to buy a car... or better yet a bus pass!"

I wonder what I would have turned out like being coddled like that.

My wife would laugh at all of use of we asked for something different. She takes care of all meals (circumstances pending) because she gets home before me because shes a teacher, and of course the summer off.

But she makes one meal, you dont like what she makes, tough. And I agree with that, you complain about a free meal put in front of you, go hungry.

[bubble.tea]

I definately agree with the developing the independence consciousness of (of age) children, rather allowing them to rely too much on their parents.


....Ive had my kids call me at work because they forgot their lunch, and we used to take it to them. But then they kept forgetting it more and more, because we would "save" them

Then we started saying "sorry you forgot it, but I cant help you" Now they never forget their lunch. Sure a hard lesson to learn for them, but they did learn from this.

I know I'm going to get flamed on this....
I am going to call Child Services on you about this though. :D


It sure is a toughie. Finding a balance, of teaching them this lesson (forgetfullness), Versus making them go hungry. I'm assuming your children were old enough that they SHOULD HAVE remembered themself to take their lunch? Not sure why you chose not to disclose the exact age-but it sure makes a difference.

Did you and your spouse lay the lunches out on the kitchen table...and they forgot to grab them??? Or are they supposed to make their own lunch and just didn't? In either case, why the HECK don't you and your spouse go through the 'check-list' when you're getting in the car in the AM?

Surely you're not disclosing to us that you ACTUALLY sat through the entire drive to school in the morning, dropping them off at school., walking into their classrooms to ensure they get their safe or what not...but in ALL that time you kept quiet KNOWING they clearly forgot their lunches, but never bothered to say anything about it?

LOL...I'm dying to learn of details.

Again, AGE IS KEY..If they are 8/9/10'ish++ and abusing their forgetfullness...it's one thing. If they are 5/6 it's not their time to remember things all by themself.

[Spidey]

I definately agree with the developing the independence consciousness of (of age) children, rather allowing them to rely too much on their parents.


I am going to call Child Services on you about this though. :D


It sure is a toughie. Finding a balance, of teaching them this lesson (forgetfullness), Versus making them go hungry. I'm assuming your children were old enough that they SHOULD HAVE remembered themself to take their lunch? Not sure why you chose not to disclose the exact age-but it sure makes a difference.

Did you and your spouse lay the lunches out on the kitchen table...and they forgot to grab them??? Or are they supposed to make their own lunch and just didn't? In either case, why the HECK don't you and your spouse go through the 'check-list' when you're getting in the car in the AM?

Surely you're not disclosing to us that you ACTUALLY sat through the entire drive to school in the morning, dropping them off at school., walking into their classrooms to ensure they get their safe or what not...but in ALL that time you kept quiet KNOWING they clearly forgot their lunches, but never bothered to say anything about it?

LOL...I'm dying to learn of details.

Again, AGE IS KEY..If they are 8/9/10'ish++ and abusing their forgetfullness...it's one thing. If they are 5/6 it's not their time to remember things all by themself.

Kids are 11, 8 and 6. And each morning its the same, they put their lunch in the fridge the night before in the garage. SO when we go to school in the morning and get into the car, they go to the fridge first and get their lunchs.

Its the same thing every morning, so a checklist isnt needed. And if you have to ask this, this and this every morning, then sounds like thats a helicopter parent to me to. But instead of physically doing something for them all the time, you are reminding them every morning so they dont have to think about it.

They make their lunches the night before right after supper.

As for not knowing they ever had their lunches, I have no idea. They are in charge of getting them and putting them in their backpacks. Im not checking their backpakcs every morning to make sure they have everything, because if you do that, thats saving them, hence the helicopter parent.

And if they ever do, my wife has to drive at least 40 minutes one way if she had to deliver it, and I am out of town some days at least an hour away.

Kids have to learn to deal with consequences. No kid has ever died from missing one meal. If you dont give the chance to deal with consequences, how can they ever learn to handle situations, or figure out ways out of certain situations.

[bubble.tea]

^ thanks for elaborating.


Where does this moniker come from btw? Your own?

[Spidey]

^ thanks for elaborating.


Where does this moniker come from btw? Your own?

What does that have to do with anything.:confused:

Are you talking avatar or my screen name :confused:

[bubble.tea]

What does that have to do with anything.:confused:

Are you talking avatar or my screen name :confused:

'heli parent'.

[Spidey]

'heli parent'.

Sorry, you lost me

[Spidey]

'heli parent'.

oh sorry, just caught it.

Something I read about and the name just stuck in my head is all

[bubble.tea]

This is a very important subject, so I'm wondering;

1-Is there an official (Educated persons' conclusive report/study?) reference somewhere available that says at each age, what level of accomplishments to expect/should hope to achieve?
2-As Devil's Advocate...is there really anything wrong with too much hand-holding through the early years of life? Of course I'm not talking about 11yr olds...I'm talkin' about 5/6/7 yr olds...even 8 or 9?

[Spidey]

This is a very important subject, so I'm wondering;

1-Is there an official (Educated persons' conclusive report/study?) reference somewhere available that says at each age, what level of accomplishments to expect/should hope to achieve?
2-As Devil's Advocate...is there really anything wrong with too much hand-holding through the early years of life? Of course I'm not talking about 11yr olds...I'm talkin' about 5/6/7 yr olds...even 8 or 9?


1. Each child at each age is different. Some mature more early, some later, etc, etc. So thats very hard to narrow down that at age 10 they should be this or this, etc.

2. Hand holding is one thing, but doing every thing for them is another. Hand holding to teach them so they can do it themselves is good, but just doing something for them time and time again, thats bad for the child I think.

[bubble.tea]

Am I correct to conclude, by your admission, that you treat all three 11, 8 & 6 the same with these terms?

Remembering lunch? 6yrs? isn't that too young?


I recognize, that having two older siblings, it exposes the youngest to a lot more development and maturity faster, than if 6 was all by themself.

My youngest (by 2 yrs) has developed much faster than my eldest, because of the exposure of things the eldest is learning (some good some bad).

[Spidey]

Am I correct to conclude, by your admission, that you treat all three 11, 8 & 6 the same with these terms?

Remembering lunch? 6yrs? isn't that too young?


I recognize, that having two older siblings, it exposes the youngest to a lot more development and maturity faster, than if 6 was all by themself.

My youngest (by 2 yrs) has developed much faster than my eldest, because of the exposure of things the eldest is learning (some good some bad).

When it comes to stuff like that, yes I do. Why cant a six year old do that. Not like Im asking him to haul wood or shovel thr driveway.

Besides, the first child your careful with everything it seems so they dont get hurt, etc. By the third their juggling knives and your like, is there any blood, then your fine :lol:

[CSK'sMom]

I think you just hit the nail on the head Spidey. With our kids (18,16 & 12) friends it's actually quite interesting to see the differences in kids and where they happen to be in the family order. For instance, one of our 16 yr old's best buds is the oldest in his family. He has very little freedom and no real expectations on him. He doesn't work yet, Mom and Dad still hand him money like there is a money tree. He gets a ride everywhere because something "may happen". In comparison our 16 yr old works (started 2 summers ago when he was still 14), has a substantial bank account and if he wants to go somewhere generally jumps on his bike. ;) We tend to see the oldest kids somewhat over-protected, middle kids are definitely looser and the babies get things way sooner than their siblings did. We find ourselves doing it as well. Our boys never got Ipods till they were teens and yet we got one for our 12 yr old daughter this Christmas. :o

We have become very aware that our job as parents is to prepare these kids to cope in the real world. Our kids have had more trials than most adults but they have been given the skills to deal with what life brings. I honestly believe my job is make sure my kids can function on their own when the time comes. That means everything from remember everything you need for work to how to cook for yourself to how to clean and do laundry and even balance a checkbook and use credit wisely. All these lessons begin early in life (yes bubble, even at 4 or 6!). There is no way as a parent you can all of sudden try to teach these things at 16 or 18 if they don't have all the lessons that come before IMO...

[Spidey]

I know a lot of people think they will start teaching them later and older. But by that time its too late, etc. Early is they key, its never to early to teach kids responsibility, etc.

MY oldest two already know how money works, when their allowance runs out, its out. We don't give advances, and if they want extra they can do extra chores, etc.

Life's tough. We all know that

[bubble.tea]

I know a lot of people think they will start teaching them later and older. But by that time its too late, etc. Early is they key, its never to early to teach kids responsibility, etc.

MY oldest 2 already know how money works, when their allowance runs out, its out. WE dont give advances, and if they want extra thye can do extra chores, etc.

Lifes tough. WE all know that
I think I'm the type of parent who WOULD give advances, but deduct it from their next allowance...Teach them in-house how brutal ANY of these outside 'advance-type-establishments' really are...and to NEVER consider using them....The NERVE of charging the rates they do!

Isn't that what 0% BTs are for?:D

[fenrus]

oh, kids are fine by themselves. I stayed at home by myself when I was 6 yr old everyday after school. I was washing dishes, cleaning toilets, and using chopsticks by then. My parents only request was that I not play with fire or the stove. simple enough.

[bubble.tea]

oh, kids are fine by themselves. I stayed at home by myself when I was 6 yr old everyday after school. I was washing dishes, cleaning toilets, and using chopsticks by then. My parents only request was that I not play with fire or the stove. simple enough.

o-Kayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. Aside from this being illegal...what was your point?

[Bullseye]

FYI - 'Helicopter parent' comes from the image of the a parent hovering over the child all the time, and then swooping in to save them at the first sign of trouble.

[3weddings]

As usual I couldn't agree with Janet more. I see it at our house too....#1 has more restrictions and expectations than #2 and #3 sure as heck is included with her sisters' activities than the other two.

As far as allowance is concerned mine earn, they don't get money from us unless it is earned (we don't just get it, why should they?) Do we advance, depending on the reason, yes we do. How do we decide? It is based on urgency. For instance if I am purchasing an item she needs and she's would prefer to upgrade, she is expected to pay the difference. It happened just this weekend and she knew the rules.

The oldest now has a small social life that includes dances ($8-$12) and we do not pay for her tickets.

Chores include the basics, but NOT their spaces. I will not pay them for what is expected of them. We pay them for the extras.

[Spidey]

o-Kayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. Aside from this being illegal...what was your point?

By the sounds of your posts, your a helicopter parent. :lol:

[Spidey]

As usual I couldn't agree with Janet more. I see it at our house too....#1 has more restrictions and expectations than #2 and #3 sure as heck is included with her sisters' activities than the other two.

As far as allowance is concerned mine earn, they don't get money from us unless it is earned (we don't just get it, why should they?) Do we advance, depending on the reason, yes we do. How do we decide? It is based on urgency. For instance if I am purchasing an item she needs and she's would prefer to upgrade, she is expected to pay the difference. It happened just this weekend and she knew the rules.

The oldest now has a small social life that includes dances ($8-$12) and we do not pay for her tickets.

Chores include the basics, but NOT their spaces. I will not pay them for what is expected of them. We pay them for the extras.

Same here. They can get whats call a "hot lunch" at school as well, if they want it, they pay for it from their allowance. There's food at home, so they dont need a hot lunch. if they want it, they pay for it.

We do pay them extra for extra work around at home. We have a sheet of extra chores they can do to make money. Emptying the recycle bins is one

[volan]

You guys rock!!!

At the age of 3 my son was learning to put on his own clothes and at school he had to hang up his own jacket and change his shoes. Of course in the beginning he needed a lot of help, but he knew he was expected to do it by himself. It was the pre-school teacher who suggested that the kids do it by themselves and we agreed it was a good idea.

It takes a lot longer for him to do his stuff by himself but I wait because I think it's important. Other parents run in with their kids, take off their kids jackets, hang them up, change the kids shoes and deposit them into the classroom and the kid just stands there like a statue.

Now my son is 4 and he knows that if he complains about his food it gets taken away. He usually stops complaining pretty quickly and then politely asks if he can have his food back

The bum wiping is something we need to work on though :-)

[Spidey]

You guys rock!!!

At the age of 3 my son was learning to put on his own clothes and at school he had to hang up his own jacket and change his shoes. Of course in the beginning he needed a lot of help, but he knew he was expected to do it by himself. It was the pre-school teacher who suggested that the kids do it by themselves and we agreed it was a good idea.

It takes a lot longer for him to do his stuff by himself but I wait because I think it's important. Other parents run in with their kids, take off their kids jackets, hang them up, change the kids shoes and deposit them into the classroom and the kid just stands there like a statue.

Now my son is 4 and he knows that if he complains about his food it gets taken away. He usually stops complaining pretty quickly and then politely asks if he can have his food back

The bum wiping is something we need to work on though :-)


The pre-school teacher has the right idea. Sure it takes longer and it wont be dont right each time, but to them they are learning. Maybe some parents want to do because its easier for them because it wont take thme as long, or because then it will be done right in their eyes.

My 5 year old (turning 6 in 2 week) wants to comb his own hair every morning now. I say let him, sure it looks funky some mornings, but he has the comb and the water spritzer and doing it himself.

[NorthYorker]

The bum wiping is something we need to work on though :-) We used wet wipes for transition. Kids are scared to get their fingers dirty while wiping, so they don't wipe carefully themselves. Wet wipes are sturdier and don't tear easily, so they can wipe themselves without fears. Then you move them to use TP. Worked nice. Just don't throw used wipes in the bowl :)

[fenrus]

We used wet wipes for transition. Kids are scared to get their fingers dirty while wiping, so they don't wipe carefully themselves. Wet wipes are sturdier and don't tear easily, so they can wipe themselves without fears. Then you move them to use TP. Worked nice. Just don't throw used wipes in the bowl :)

kids are afraid to get dirty now a days?

[Spidey]

kids are afraid to get dirty now a days?

That kinda dirty I think so. :cheesygri

[volan]

We used wet wipes for transition. Kids are scared to get their fingers dirty while wiping, so they don't wipe carefully themselves. Wet wipes are sturdier and don't tear easily, so they can wipe themselves without fears. Then you move them to use TP. Worked nice. Just don't throw used wipes in the bowl :)

We actually use (generic brand) flushable wet wipes (kids and adults). You can get them at Wall Mart. They give you that fresh feeling :-)

[Spidey]

We actually use (generic brand) flushable wet wipes (kids and adults). You can get them at Wall Mart. They give you that fresh feeling :-)

Winter fresh

[bubble.tea]

I noticed one of the parents...err Grand-parents who drop off their child at our daycare removed the jacket+changed shoes of their child today.

I was pleased to say MINE...did it all herself :).

Yippeeeeeeeeeee

[Spidey]

I noticed one of the parents...err Grand-parents who drop off their child at our daycare removed the jacket+changed shoes of their child today.

I was pleased to say MINE...did it all herself :).

Yippeeeeeeeeeee

Thats awesome to hear. Becoming self reliant is good, and great for their self esteem too

[Emancipated]

School of hard knocks, baby! You are doing by your kids right. Parents who pander to their kids too much end up raising spoiled little brats with the idea of self entitlement. This may not be a problem if the parents are wealthy and can afford to buy their child's affection but it tarnishes what little authority you ever had as a parent of that child. Believe me, I have seen parents who basically raise their child with the reward system and it's sickening.

[Spidey]

School of hard knocks, baby! You are doing by your kids right. Parents who pander to their kids too much end up raising spoiled little brats with the idea of self entitlement. This may not be a problem if the parents are wealthy and can afford to buy their child's affection but it tarnishes what little authority you ever had as a parent of that child. Believe me, I have seen parents who basically raise their child with the reward system and it's sickening.


Bingo. Couldnt of said it better myself. I saw those kind of kids all over the college when I worked there. No concept of anything, and mommy & daddy werent there to save them.

[jory29]

Bubble.tea, I think I can explain why you and Spidey think a little, uh, differently...:razz:

You only have one child now, right? That is my understanding from your posts in this thread (cute baby in your avatar BTW, if that is your babe)... Sorry if I'm wrong, but I have a hunch this is true.

When we had our first born, we did so much for him, that we did too much. We didn't 'see' it until we had our second child. When #2 comes along, they are 'independent and responsible' by nature's way, I guess. Do I feel guilty that #2 has been spreading butter onto bread at 3 years of age for herself, getting YOP out of the fridge and opening it, washing apples for herself, and getting dressed on her own {since 2 years old}, and sometimes packing her kindergarten snack and always remembering to pack her daily reading book? Nah. Not at all... I enjoy seeing her independence, and she enjoys having such independence (she installs her own computer games, goes onto the internet and types in youtube, and also types in Disneyland rides so she can view the rides we went on, on our trip to Disneyland) and the only time I am tugging on her coat to take it off and take it to her locker is when I am running late in the mornings, LOL. I take her in as at her school, it is requested that parents take them in. Though, the doors are so heavy I'd hate to have her pinch her fingers in them. I find that our first born tended to have us 'help' him with so much; once, a balloon that he just bought at the dollar store flew away from him, and he was crying... he was around 3 years old. I had told him he'd have to hang onto it, so I had pre-warned him. It was an accident, so I ended up 'fixing it' and getting him a new one... for child #2, if a toy breaks, she says, 'Oh well' and she is fine if we duct tape Cinderella pollypocket type doll up, or have to throw it out, even. I over-did things with him for many years, and everyone warned me about over protecting him. He had a separation anxiety until around Gr. 2, though he dealt pretty well with it, but it's hard to see that in a child, it is so hard for them to have to deal with it, and hard on the parent as well. I'm embarrassed now, looking back, at how much I protected him from life. I try now to let him accept his own consequences, but Lord knows, it's hard. I just found myself being far more relaxed with #2, it seems I felt far more confident in raising child #2 and it must have shown to her, too.

Can anyone else with more than one child relate to all of this? :cheesygri

Bubble.tea, I think when you only have 1 child, it is really hard to think in the mindset of a parent who has more than one child; [been there, done that, and I tell you, I sometimes judged 'those' parents before, thinking they were lazy/careless/selfish at times, when they weren't 'helping' their child.] When you have your second child, and let them have a cookie that you quickly dusted off on your clothes after it has fallen onto the floor, and see them smiling as they bite into it with their big toothy grin, that you know you are doing the right thing. ;) It's when you throw it out, and give them a new one, and fix it all, that you begin to notice a pattern of high need with your child.

Everyone and their dog told me I was overly cautious with our firstborn... maybe deep down I knew he needed me in a different way than child #2... or maybe, just maybe, I helped so much that I hindered him. :(

I think it is a combination, but I think the latter is what made things more difficult for him, in general.

[jory29]

I noticed one of the parents...err Grand-parents who drop off their child at our daycare removed the jacket+changed shoes of their child today.

I was pleased to say MINE...did it all herself :).

Yippeeeeeeeeeee


Whoo hoooo! Great to hear!! :) Good stuff!! :)

[Spidey]

Bubble.tea, I think I can explain why you and Spidey think a little, uh, differently...:razz:

You only have one child now, right? That is my understanding from your posts in this thread (cute baby in your avatar BTW, if that is your babe)... Sorry if I'm wrong, but I have a hunch this is true.

When we had our first born, we did so much for him, that we did too much. We didn't 'see' it until we had our second child. When #2 comes along, they are 'independent and responsible' by nature's way, I guess. Do I feel guilty that #2 has been spreading butter onto bread at 3 years of age for herself, getting YOP out of the fridge and opening it, washing apples for herself, and getting dressed on her own {since 2 years old}, and sometimes packing her kindergarten snack and always remembering to pack her daily reading book? Nah. Not at all... I enjoy seeing her independence, and she enjoys having such independence (she installs her own computer games, goes onto the internet and types in youtube, and also types in Disneyland rides so she can view the rides we went on, on our trip to Disneyland) and the only time I am tugging on her coat to take it off and take it to her locker is when I am running late in the mornings, LOL. I take her in as at her school, it is requested that parents take them in. Though, the doors are so heavy I'd hate to have her pinch her fingers in them. I find that our first born tended to have us 'help' him with so much; once, a balloon that he just bought at the dollar store flew away from him, and he was crying... he was around 3 years old. I had told him he'd have to hang onto it, so I had pre-warned him. It was an accident, so I ended up 'fixing it' and getting him a new one... for child #2, if a toy breaks, she says, 'Oh well' and she is fine if we duct tape Cinderella pollypocket type doll up, or have to throw it out, even. I over-did things with him for many years, and everyone warned me about over protecting him. He had a separation anxiety until around Gr. 2, though he dealt pretty well with it, but it's hard to see that in a child, it is so hard for them to have to deal with it, and hard on the parent as well. I'm embarrassed now, looking back, at how much I protected him from life. I try now to let him accept his own consequences, but Lord knows, it's hard. I just found myself being far more relaxed with #2, it seems I felt far more confident in raising child #2 and it must have shown to her, too.

Can anyone else with more than one child relate to all of this? :cheesygri

Bubble.tea, I think when you only have 1 child, it is really hard to think in the mindset of a parent who has more than one child; [been there, done that, and I tell you, I sometimes judged 'those' parents before, thinking they were lazy/careless/selfish at times, when they weren't 'helping' their child.] When you have your second child, and let them have a cookie that you quickly dusted off on your clothes after it has fallen onto the floor, and see them smiling as they bite into it with their big toothy grin, that you know you are doing the right thing. ;) It's when you throw it out, and give them a new one, and fix it all, that you begin to notice a pattern of high need with your child.

Everyone and their dog told me I was overly cautious with our firstborn... maybe deep down I knew he needed me in a different way than child #2... or maybe, just maybe, I helped so much that I hindered him. :(

I think it is a combination, but I think the latter is what made things more difficult for him, in general.

I do get looks from parents at the school. While they go to the minivan door and open the door for their child, grab their backpack and carry it into the school for them. While i get out of my truck and stand there and wait for them, carrying their own backpacks, etc, etc.

[Tiberius]

This cracks me up. I wonder if this is a "big city" thing or if parents have become this way everywhere?

When I was going to school, I had to get picked up by the school bus... right from the start of Kindergarten I was getting a bus with all the other kids - including kids who were in grade 8 (gasp). That bus shipped me to the school and once there, myself (and all the other kids) were parent free and fending for ourselves (gasp!).

When did this "parents IN the schools" thing start? I actually saw someone mention that parents weren't allowed in their kids school - that sounds about right to me! I feel for the teachers having to deal with parents coming in to the school and their classroom... clingy parents must make being a teacher a nightmare?

[Tiberius]

Isn't that what 0% BTs are for?:D

^^^ This line cracked me up bubble! :lol:

Wouldn't a better lesson be to not go into credit card debt at all? Don't spend it unless you have the money to pay it off (in other words - just use the credit card to either gain rewards or benefit - such as car insurance or extra warranty, to have an itemized list of all your spending and avoid increased banking fees for constantly using Interac, or for convenience or necessity at some stores, etc.)

Personally, I don't see why holding credit card debt would ever even be a concept I would even remotely hint is "acceptable" to my kid.

[Spidey]

This cracks me up. I wonder if this is a "big city" thing or if parents have become this way everywhere?

When I was going to school, I had to get picked up by the school bus... right from the start of Kindergarten I was getting a bus with all the other kids - including kids who were in grade 8 (gasp). That bus shipped me to the school and once there, myself (and all the other kids) were parent free and fending for ourselves (gasp!).

When did this "parents IN the schools" thing start? I actually saw someone mention that parents weren't allowed in their kids school - that sounds about right to me! I feel for the teachers having to deal with parents coming in to the school and their classroom... clingy parents must make being a teacher a nightmare?


Was the same for me growing up, on the bus at 7:30 when i was in kindergarten. Waiting at the end of the driveway until the bus got there. I was a little lucky that my dad drove the bus throughout most of my schooling, but yes you were in charge of yourself when you got to the school, etc.

I dont even take my kids in anymore, I just drop them off and in they go.

[3weddings]

I dont even take my kids in anymore, I just drop them off and in they go.

Ditto here....actually mine are lucky they are getting a ride at $1.22/L :cheesygri

[Spidey]

Ditto here....actually mine are lucky they are getting a ride at $1.22/L :cheesygri

If we didnt live out of town they wouldnt be, they would be walking. Before we did move they walked every day. We cant get busing for their schools vecause we areout of the area.

[Spidey]

well back to the school grind and seeing this everyday again. I get the meanest looks from them as well :cheesygri

The bus kids never have any help

[Sparkx]

My 5 year old (turning 6 in 2 week) wants to comb his own hair every morning now. I say let him, sure it looks funky some mornings, but he has the comb and the water spritzer and doing it himself.

That's so cute.
Reminds me of my youngest brother, when he was little who would "shave" with my dad, every night. He had his own toiletry kit, with razor (no blades of course) small can of shaving cream, aftershave, comb & brush, etc.
To this day, more than 10 yrs alter, my brother still had that kit.


A woman i know has a a daughter, who is very sepcial to me. She is 12 yrs old.
One thing that irritates me is that her mother will not let her do anything. She cannot make her own bed, fold or put away her own clothes, because she is not "doing it right". To try to please her mom one day, before she got home, she thought she would vacuum & sweep. According to her dad, she did a great job but her mom freaked because she could have broken things.
Once she asked her mom if she could help her make supper, only to be told she did have the time to "teach her".
Grrrrr!

What the hell?

[3weddings]

That's so cute.
Reminds me of my youngest brother, when he was little who would "shave" with my dad, every night. He had his own toiletry kit, with razor (no blades of course) small can of shaving cream, aftershave, comb & brush, etc.
To this day, more than 10 yrs alter, my brother still had that kit.


A woman i know has a a daughter, who is very sepcial to me. She is 12 yrs old.
One thing that irritates me is that her mother will not let her do anything. She cannot make her own bed, fold or put away her own clothes, because she is not "doing it right". To try to please her mom one day, before she got home, she thought she would vacuum & sweep. According to her dad, she did a great job but her mom freaked because she could have broken things.
Once she asked her mom if she could help her make supper, only to be told she did have the time to "teach her".
Grrrrr!

What the hell?

I have taught my children chores from a very young age. So what if they don't do it 100%, it's the ownership that teaches them!!!

My oldest has been vacuuming the family room since she was 4, the middle one scrubs all the toilets in the house and the youngest is responsible for the pets. All three wanted the dogs, therefore they are experts at de-pooping the lawn:cheesygri .

Not letting them do chores really does hinder their development in my opinion. I admire that the 12 year old takes her own initiative, but the mom shooting her down constantly will do nothing but harm to her self esteem.

[poedua]

I have taught my children chores from a very young age. So what if they don't do it 100%, it's the ownership that teaches them!!!

My oldest has been vacuuming the family room since she was 4, the middle one scrubs all the toilets in the house and the youngest is responsible for the pets. All three wanted the dogs, therefore they are experts at de-pooping the lawn:cheesygri .

Not letting them do chores really does hinder their development in my opinion. I admire that the 12 year old takes her own initiative, but the mom shooting her down constantly will do nothing but harm to her self esteem.

Guess every family is different, but vacuuming doesn't seem like an ' age-appropriate ' chore for a 4 year old IMO - but that's just me.:)

[3weddings]

Guess every family is different, but vacuuming doesn't seem like an ' age-appropriate ' chore for a 4 year old IMO - but that's just me.:)

Have you never seen your little ones with the Fisher Price Vac??? They LOVE it!! I simply made it the real thing vs. a toy one :cheesygri To this day (she's 12) it's her fave thing to do....who am I to complain :D ??

Before anyone jumps on me about the 2nd daughter and the toilets....we use no chemicals here:)

[CSK'sMom]

Any of you have any dealing with what I am beginning to think is a helicopter principal? Now I get that there are parents out there who want to know about every little scrape their kid gets at school. I get that we may not be normal in that sense but I am seriously starting to wonder about our daughter's new principal. Two days in a row now I've been called. Yesterday it was she was hit with a baseball in the shoulder. They put our DD on the phone and she was like I'm fine, it's no big deal. Today I get another call for another baseball incident. Both days when she's come home we've asked why the call and she's told us that the principal made her call home even though she told her she was fine. :confused: I just think this is really weird and I'll definitely be talking with the principal over this. We have always kind of had a house policy that we don't want to know about it unless there is a lot of blood, LOL! Maybe the new principal doesn't realize that our DD had 2 olders brothers who have made her tough and she's not just another pretty face. :lol:

[poedua]

Have you never seen your little ones with the Fisher Price Vac??? They LOVE it!! I simply made it the real thing vs. a toy one :cheesygri To this day (she's 12) it's her fave thing to do....who am I to complain :D ??

Before anyone jumps on me about the 2nd daughter and the toilets....we use no chemicals here:)

I get that.

But, keep in mind, the the Fisher Price Vac IS a TOY - and is designed to be played with by age appropriate children.

At least for me, , having a pre-schooler at the age of 4 assuming the vacuuming of a room as a chore simply isn't age appropriate.

But again, that is just my opinion.:)

[ricoboxing]

Any of you have any dealing with what I am beginning to think is a helicopter principal? Now I get that there are parents out there who want to know about every little scrape their kid gets at school. I get that we may not be normal in that sense but I am seriously starting to wonder about our daughter's new principal. Two days in a row now I've been called. Yesterday it was she was hit with a baseball in the shoulder. They put our DD on the phone and she was like I'm fine, it's no big deal. Today I get another call for another baseball incident. Both days when she's come home we've asked why the call and she's told us that the principal made her call home even though she told her she was fine. :confused: I just think this is really weird and I'll definitely be talking with the principal over this. We have always kind of had a house policy that we don't want to know about it unless there is a lot of blood, LOL! Maybe the new principal doesn't realize that our DD had 2 olders brothers who have made her tough and she's not just another pretty face. :lol:

maybe the principal is worried about those types of parents that would sue or blame them for not notifying them about every single event that happens to their kids. I think they are just doing it to protect their asses from any legal action that some wacko parent might take.

[3weddings]

I get that.

But, keep in mind, the the Fisher Price Vac IS a TOY - and is designed to be played with by age appropriate children.

At least for me, , having a pre-schooler at the age of 4 assuming the vacuuming of a room as a chore simply isn't age appropriate.

But again, that is just my opinion.:)

It's worked for us, and she's always been independant...not like I forced it on her, it came naturally for her. I thought you'd be after me on the toilet issue rather than a simple vacuuming :lol:




maybe the principal is worried about those types of parents that would sue or blame them for not notifying them about every single event that happens to their kids. I think they are just doing it to protect their asses from any legal action that some wacko parent might take.

I believe some boards now make it mandatory to call the parents over every little incident. I am called almost daily over #2 who is our tomboy, and is hurt daily. Like you J, we have that lots of blood policy, but because of helicopter parents, we get the brunt of the calls :cheesygri

[DarcyC]

It's worked for us, and she's always been independant...not like I forced it on her, it came naturally for her. I thought you'd be after me on the toilet issue rather than a simple vacuuming :lol:

You will get a different reaction from people depending on what kind of vacuum people have in their house - big monster vac vs. little lite vac, also whether they have a lot of stairs. If they are picturing a little 4 year old hauling monster vac up the stairs while vacuuming away getting caught in the hose and falling down the stairs. :eek: It's not a bad idea to get kids helping out while they are still young enough to think that it's fun. I'm sure most of them get over that idea soon enough! :rolleyes:

I'd like to say that I am the perfect parent, but I'll never get there in this lifetime! I sometimes have to stick my hands in my pockets to stop myself from throwing on my 4-year old's clothes for her and sometimes when I'm really frazzled and can't wait, I just do it myself. I do try though. Parents aren't allowed into my daughter's school so the kids keep coming out with their shoes on the wrong feet or wearing their "indoor only" shoes with their clothes half done up. I find it kind of charming. :)

[Spidey]

I get that.

But, keep in mind, the the Fisher Price Vac IS a TOY - and is designed to be played with by age appropriate children.

At least for me, , having a pre-schooler at the age of 4 assuming the vacuuming of a room as a chore simply isn't age appropriate.

But again, that is just my opinion.:)

I better not tell you then my oldest boy has been helping me skin deer with his knife since we has 8. ;-)

I get my kids to help me all sorts of stuff, from working on the vehicles to helping me fix things around the house. They also have chores they have as well, but its more for stuff they have. Fold and put away their own laundry (we wash it) make their own lunches, etc.

They also do vacuuming with the central vac, empty the dishwasher, do the recycling, etc and my oldest know mows the lows (with the riding lawn mower)

If I'm doing work around the house and they are laying around watching TV or playing a video game, darn right I will be asking them to help me. If they are outside playing or biking, not so much.

I always tell them if they want me to have more time to play with them, then they better help me or around the house, otherwise that time is eaten up with myself doing things they can do

[CSK'sMom]

LOL! Thanks Steph. I was beginning to think this new principal was just over the top with the calls home. Today was a good day, no call home! :cheesygri Bad news is she came home with one hell of a rash that is spreading like crazy. If I didn't know better I would say it was chicken pox but not possible in her case, she gets shingles (twice). Her Daddy has her at the clinic now. :confused: Well the Doc at the clinic *thinks* the rash is contact dermatitis. Gave her a script for a cortisone cream and said to really watch it. It's all around her hairline, her face, and the front of her body. If that's what it is who knows what from in that kind of pattern...

So grinning at Spidey! IIRC, our boys were about 8 or 9 and helping their Dad kill, pluck and gut turkeys. By 10 they were driving a Bobcat and cleaning out the crap from the barn. :cheesygri Hell, our daughter was in JK and helping to deliver calves.

[Spidey]

So grinning at Spidey! IIRC, our boys were about 8 or 9 and helping their Dad kill, pluck and gut turkeys. By 10 they were driving a Bobcat and cleaning out the crap from the barn. :cheesygri Hell, our daughter was in JK and helping to deliver calves.

I was the same growing up to. My kids now dont do the same things I used to do, as we dont have a farm but an acreage. But they have done a lot of things their friends never have.

I want to get them on the farm during calving season so they can experience that. But we live so far away now it would be hard to do

[poedua]

I better not tell you then my oldest boy has been helping me skin deer with his knife since we has 8. ;-)

No comment.


I get my kids to help me all sorts of stuff, from working on the vehicles to helping me fix things around the house. They also have chores they have as well, but its more for stuff they have. Fold and put away their own laundry (we wash it) make their own lunches, etc.

Again, I support chores...but simply support ' age appropriate ' chores - i.e. in terms of a childs' physical, cognitive ability etc. - chores.


They also do vacuuming with the central vac, empty the dishwasher, do the recycling, etc and my oldest know mows the lows (with the riding lawn mower)

Like I said, I support ' age appropriate ' chores.


If I'm doing work around the house and they are laying around watching TV or playing a video game, darn right I will be asking them to help me. If they are outside playing or biking, not so much.

I always tell them if they want me to have more time to play with them, then they better help me or around the house, otherwise that time is eaten up with myself doing things they can do

That is one possible rationale for doing chores I suppose.

[randomdef]

No comment.



Again, I support chores...but simply support ' age appropriate ' chores - i.e. in terms of a childs' physical, cognitive ability etc. - chores.



Like I said, I support ' age appropriate ' chores.






He listed alot of chores and you seem to deem them all as "age appropriate" so what exactly is not age appropriate for a 8 year old? or 11? or 3?. You limit alot by limiting tasks to age rather than development.

[Spidey]

No comment.

Again, I support chores...but simply support ' age appropriate ' chores - i.e. in terms of a childs' physical, cognitive ability etc. - chores.

Like I said, I support ' age appropriate ' chores.

That is one possible rationale for doing chores I suppose.

Possible rationale :confused: What Im supposed to let them lie around while I do things that they can do. Not in this lifetime

Age approriate is what though. If you teach them how to do it and no physical harm will happen why not. Speaking od physical harm, kkids hurt them selves just walking. Trip, fall, bang. Cant hold their hands forever

[poedua]

Possible rationale :confused: What Im supposed to let them lie around while I do things that they can do. Not in this lifetime

What I meant was, you could also give them chores simply as a teaching tool in and of itself and not necessarily as a means to an end for something else - such as having the chore result in spending for time with a parent or actually having the chore they're shouldering being among the true chores that have to get done.


Age approriate is what though.

Tough to say.

I guess that depends on the type of chore, as well as the personality, intelligence, physical and cognitive capability of the child.


If you teach them how to do it and no physical harm will happen why not.

Again, it depends on the age of the child and the chore.


Speaking od physical harm, kkids hurt them selves just walking. Trip, fall, bang.

I agree.

In fact, I never suggested otherwise.


Cant hold their hands forever

I never suggested that either.

[randomdef]

What I meant was, you could also give them chores simply as a teaching tool in and of itself and not necessarily as a means to an end for something else - such as having the chore result in spending for time with a parent or actually having the chore they're shouldering being among the true chores that have to get done.



Tough to say.

I guess that depends on the type of chore, as well as the personality, intelligence, physical and cognitive capability of the child.



Again, it depends on the age of the child and the chore.



I agree.

In fact, I never suggested otherwise.



I never suggested that either.


this is the second thread i've read that you are in that you just seem to start a discussion and then abandon it when people start to make valid points.

why start then?

if age appropriate is highly variable, why define it as AGE appropriate? with those variables it becomes child specific appropriate tasks rather than age, and with child specific, any argument you have for or again any task is null and void unless you know the child.

[poedua]

this is the second thread i've read that you are in that you just seem to start a discussion and then abandon it when people start to make valid points.

Too funny !

I didn't ' abandon ' anything.


if age appropriate is highly variable, why define it as AGE appropriate?

I would say some variability exists at a given age for kids, but I wouldn't call it ' highly variable '.

I suspect that the norm / the majority of kids attain certain cognitive and physical capabilities at the same age milestones.

That said, I think establishing ' AGE appropriate ' chores is still a very valid approach to embrace IMO.


with those variables it becomes child specific appropriate tasks rather than age, and with child specific, any argument you have for or again any task is null and void unless you know the child.

For one example, chores that are ' age appropriate ' for an 11 or 12 year old, may not be ' age appropriate ' for a 4 or 5 year old. That's all I'm saying - age is a relevant.

So, when trying to determine if a chore is appropriate or not, at the outset at least, it is more an issue of being ' age appropriate ' than ' child appropriate ' in my view.

[Bookpreviews]

And that kid will walk all over them as they get older. Plus the real world will eat her alive when she leaves home, if she ever will

If you want to see how those kids turn out, just watch the MTV show Exiled.
It is about the 8 brattiest "kids" that had a sweet 16 party and how, a year or 2 later they are still at their parents, some even having their food cut up for them.

In one episode a girl is sent to Africa to live in a tribe village and the girl freaks as she is asked to help build a house out of cow dung...haha!

In the second show you see a girl whose parents do absolutely everything for her and she is sent to Norway? to help migrate the reindeer

And after the show they even had a segment with "where are they now" and the Norway girl is still at home, parents dressing her up and cutting her food.

[Spidey]

If you want to see how those kids turn out, just watch the MTV show Exiled.
It is about the 8 brattiest "kids" that had a sweet 16 party and how, a year or 2 later they are still at their parents, some even having their food cut up for them.

In one episode a girl is sent to Africa to live in a tribe village and the girl freaks as she is asked to help build a house out of cow dung...haha!

In the second show you see a girl whose parents do absolutely everything for her and she is sent to Norway? to help migrate the reindeer

And after the show they even had a segment with "where are they now" and the Norway girl is still at home, parents dressing her up and cutting her food.


Thats nuts. Parents are to blame for all that 100%

[Spidey]

Read this and had to post. What are we doing to our kids, allowing them to be the boss of us

Posted on a local Kijiji ad

"I'm a stay at home mom. My daughter is a huge mommas girl and wont let me out of her sight, so going for a hair cut would be virtually impossible. So! I'm looking for someone to come cut my hair for me! I have very thick hair and I'd like long layers done in it as it gives me headaches if I go too long without cutting it. Afternoons are best for me. I would prefer that you have at least some experience. Please let me know what you charge!

Thanks for looking!"

So you have life no more because your kids doesnt allow it.

Walk out of the house for christs sake. get a babysitter and leave. Heaven forbid a kid doesnt get what they want for once