$672 electric car

[almostfreeman]

This battery powered grocery getter was built by Darin Cosgrove and Ivan Limburg, of Brockville, Ontario. The friends were looking for a project to do in Limburg’s new workshop, and set their sights on building an EV after reading about a couple of DIY electric car conversions on the web.
http://ecomodder.com/blog/2008/01/30/a-672-electric-car/

[Jungle]

Good find. I've been wanting to do this with my civc. I wonder how they set up the braking system?

[Bullseye]

I love alternative transportation ideas, thanks for posting this.

I'm surprised about the electricity cost to drive it, though, 3 cents per km. My gas powered Echo costs $.05/km, so there isn't as huge a savings there as I'd expect. Decent, but not huge.

65kph top speed is pretty good, though. If could buy something like that for $5k, it would be a perfect commuting car for me, my drive is 50-60 limits the whole way, and only 17km each way.

My favourite idea is still a waste vegetable oil powered vehicle, though. Look at greasecar.com to see what I mean. You can convert and diesel vehicle for a couple thousand. If Toyota still sold diesel Landcruisers here, my family hauler would already be running on this.

[gerbil]

In 1996, electric cars began to appear on roads all over California. They were quiet and fast, produced no exhaust and ran without gasoline...........Ten years later, these cars were destroyed.

Who killed the electric car? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/)

[ullyeus]

I'm surprised about the electricity cost to drive it, though, 3 cents per km. My gas powered Echo costs $.05/km, so there isn't as huge a savings there as I'd expect. Decent, but not huge.


What school of math did you graduate from where a 40% savings in the price of gas isn't huge?

[Bullseye]

What school of math did you graduate from where a 40% savings in the price of gas isn't huge?

I was thinking more in dollar terms for my own usage. I currently spend $35 a month in gas, with that vehicle I'd spend $20. Not huge.

The smartass comments are unwarranted and not needed, go channel your problems elsewhere...

[CRXGSR]

I wonder how that car would perform on a snowy day like today?

[weedb0y]

I was thinking more in dollar terms for my own usage. I currently spend $35 a month in gas, with that vehicle I'd spend $20. Not huge.

The smartass comments are unwarranted and not needed, go channel your problems elsewhere...

That is definitely not avg. I spend twice as that per week in my Honda as well.

[ullyeus]

I was thinking more in dollar terms for my own usage. I currently spend $35 a month in gas, with that vehicle I'd spend $20. Not huge.

The smartass comments are unwarranted and not needed, go channel your problems elsewhere...

No..I would say it was warranted... Just because you only spend $35 a month...and you don't consider $15 savings large doesn't mean "so there isn't as huge a savings there as I'd expect. Decent, but not huge."

There obviously and blatantly is a potential for huge savings for just about everyone.

It's like someone posting "It doesn't cost me anything to walk!"...congratulations...but no one asked or cared about your own personal transportation methods.

[Bullseye]

No..I would say it was warranted... Just because you only spend $35 a month...and you don't consider $15 savings large doesn't mean "so there isn't as huge a savings there as I'd expect. Decent, but not huge."

There obviously and blatantly is a potential for huge savings for just about everyone.

It's like someone posting "It doesn't cost me anything to walk!"...congratulations...but no one asked or cared about your own personal transportation methods.

You obviously cared enough to respond to it, though, huh? You could have just scrolled on by, but something in your personality obviously compelled you to chime in with a useless and baseless comment about my math skills.

If you have nothing positive to add to the thread, why don't you just take your own personal issues and shuffle off somewhere else, before this otherwise interesting thread gets locked? A quick search on your handle reveals that these types of comments from you are becoming commonplace, maybe time for some introspection on your part in what is driving you to do so.

[NiteHawk]

I wonder what Jeremy Clarkson would do to this car. hehe :cheesygri

[brunes]

The main problem with electric cars is, regardless of cost savings, in the US at least (and many places in Canada still as well), the odds of that electricity coming from coal burning is very high.

It's better to burn gasoline in an efficient engine than use electricity powered by burning coal.

[Bullseye]

The main problem with electric cars is, regardless of cost savings, in the US at least (and many places in Canada still as well), the odds of that electricity coming from coal burning is very high.

It's better to burn gasoline in an efficient engine than use electricity powered by burning coal.

Definitely a consideration, although with proper legislation, it would probably be easier to enforce tough emissions restrictions on coal plants than to ensure that motorists keep their car in good shape. A poorly maintained car, even one designed for low emissions, can be very polluting.

[DrLee]

Definitely a consideration, although with proper legislation, it would probably be easier to enforce tough emissions restrictions on coal plants than to ensure that motorists keep their car in good shape. A poorly maintained car, even one designed for low emissions, can be very polluting.

Well, in terms of volume of use... the electric car being powered by a coal burning power plant still produces far less emissions and usage compared to an efficient gas engine. There's plenty of stats available to disprove that argument since automotive and oil industry lobbyists tried to argue that a while ago. Not just emissions, but in terms of waste of resources and cash as well.

[Bullseye]

Well, in terms of volume of use... the electric car being powered by a coal burning power plant still produces far less emissions and usage compared to an efficient gas engine. There's plenty of stats available to disprove that argument since automotive and oil industry lobbyists tried to argue that a while ago. Not just emissions, but in terms of waste of resources and cash as well.

I'd like to see some of these stats, and your source for that statement that an electric car powered by coal burning electricity plants is more efficient.

[rb]

The main problem with electric cars is, regardless of cost savings, in the US at least (and many places in Canada still as well), the odds of that electricity coming from coal burning is very high.

It's better to burn gasoline in an efficient engine than use electricity powered by burning coal.

However N America has an abundance of coal and does not have to rely on "other" parties for this fuel

[nornet]

However N America has an abundance of coal and does not have to rely on "other" parties for this fuel
Canada is not self sufficient in the production of solar cells or wind turbines. Other than those two electrical sources, we are: coal, oil, nuclear, natural gas. The east cost of Canada imports oil but not because we're not self sufficient. There is no pipeline there. We are a net exporter of oil not importer.

I don't see your point.

[rb]

Canada is not self sufficient in the production of solar cells or wind turbines. Other than those two electrical sources, we are: coal, oil, nuclear, natural gas. The east cost of Canada imports oil but not because we're not self sufficient. There is no pipeline there. We are a net exporter of oil not importer.

I don't see your point.

I didn't say Canada - I said N America - the USA has the worlds largest coal reserves and from a national security point of view I am sure most Americans would rather burn dirty home produced coal in power stations to power electric cars then somewhat less dirty but "foreign" produced oil in a car engine

[smithinparis]

A point that often gets overlooked when discussing which is more polluting or more efficient (gas cars or coal power plants to run electric cars), is that electricity itself is entirely clean - it's just electrons moving around.

Currently, how we produce electricity is controversial, and we are just in the infancy of green or renewable electricity production.

The fact that we are currently creating electricity in a polluting manner, shouldn't stop the industry from creating green products. Afterall, gas burning cars will ALWAYS be gas burning cars - however with new power generation technologies (which requires big investments from governments) will allow electric cars to run clean.

So don't put down electric cars for things that are not under the control of electric cars. They are a step in the right direction, and marginally ahead of their time. The issue is not with the car - the issue is with power generation.

As an aside, rumor has it that Walmart has been talking to some major auto manufacturers about possibly (in the future) installing wind turbines in their parking lots to charge up the electric cars that drive to Walmart - anybody have any info on that?

[nornet]

A point that often gets overlooked when discussing which is more polluting or more efficient (gas cars or coal power plants to run electric cars), is that electricity itself is entirely clean - it's just electrons moving around.

Currently, how we produce electricity is controversial, and we are just in the infancy of green or renewable electricity production.

The fact that we are currently creating electricity in a polluting manner, shouldn't stop the industry from creating green products. Afterall, gas burning cars will ALWAYS be gas burning cars - however with new power generation technologies (which requires big investments from governments) will allow electric cars to run clean.

So don't put down electric cars for things that are not under the control of electric cars. They are a step in the right direction, and marginally ahead of their time. The issue is not with the car - the issue is with power generation.

As an aside, rumor has it that Walmart has been talking to some major auto manufacturers about possibly (in the future) installing wind turbines in their parking lots to charge up the electric cars that drive to Walmart - anybody have any info on that?

I am not a fan of WalMart, mostly for their bully tactics when dealing with suppliers many of whom end up in bankruptcy. If this is more than a rumour regarding the parking lot recharging of EVs they will have removed one of the most serious impediment concerning their usage.

[smithinparis]

nornet,
I am completely on side with you regarding not being a fan of Walmart. I think their impact to todays wasteful, low quality, careless consumerism is unquestionable and damaging to our society in so many ways.
That being said, they are also in a position to lead trends, and if they they can lead this one, then props to them.

I am not a fan of WalMart, mostly for their bully tactics when dealing with suppliers many of whom end up in bankruptcy. If this is more than a rumour regarding the parking lot recharging of EVs they will have removed one of the most serious impediment concerning their usage.
Just curious, what is the most serious impediment that you are talking about?
There is a great blog at www.ecogeek.org, and they just recently had a blog on EV's ... just copying it here for those interested - they reflected my thoughts on this really well:


I've read detailed and well-researched reports that say that plug-in hybrids will decrease pollution and carbon emissions.

The problem is, I've also read detailed and well-researched reports that say the exact opposite. What is going on here? How could such obviously contradictory reports both be true?

Well, to work out some of the kinks concerning how plug-in hybrids work, I thought I'd make a list of environmental pros and cons:

Pros:
- PHEVs use less gasoline. Gasoline makes the world suck more.
- PHEVs get greener as the grid gets greener
- Power plants (which charge PHEVs) are more efficient than car engines, creating more energy per unit of carbon.
- 500 power plants are easier to regulate than 100 million cars.
Power Plants emit less NOx, hydrocarbons and other smog-causing pollutants
- PHEV technology could allow for an intelligent grid that would allow cars to sell their energy back to the grid during peak demand, decreasing the need for more power plants.
- PHEV batteries have less environmental impact than current nickel batteries.

Cons:
- Power plants produce far more SO2 than cars (especially old coal plants).
- In areas where coal generates most of the power, PHEVs can produce more carbon than similar sized cars.
- PHEVs increase electricity demands, which increases coal mining, which is bad news.
- PHEV batteries are expensive and need a lot of resources to create and recycle.

As you can see, it isn't clear-cut here. In fact, I'm fairly certain that this isn't even a complete list. I'm most influenced by the fact that gasoline hybrids will always remain as dirty as they are today, while plug-ins will continue to get greener as the renewable energy economy matures.

Of course, this assumes that the renewable energy economy will mature. But with 42 gigawatts of renewables planned for the US already, I think that's a fairly safe bet.

[nornet]

nornet,
<snip>

Just curious, what is the most serious impediment that you are talking about?
There is a great blog at www.ecogeek.org, and they just recently had a blog on EV's ... just copying it here for those interested - they reflected my thoughts on this really well:
The most serious current impediment (pun intended). The ability not to be able to recharge a suburban EV during a shopping trip.

That's an interesting link. The VW TDI hybrid is an attractive blend of technologies.

[65505201]

What school of math did you graduate from where a 40% savings in the price of gas isn't huge?

The school of grand scheme of things. While a drop in cost from .05c to .03c is great, how many kms would you drive in an electric car with those specs?

A drop from $50 to $30 is significant, but not huge. (Unless you're still on a $10/wk allowance :p)

[TheDude79]

I was thinking more in dollar terms for my own usage. I currently spend $35 a month in gas, with that vehicle I'd spend $20. Not huge.


Seeing that the range is only 25km max on a charge, the most you're going to be able to drive the thing in a month is about 750km, assuming that you can't charge at your destinations. Given the $0.02 savings per km, you're only looking at about $15 per month maximum savings over a gas powered model. Definitely not huge. Not to mention that this design is a one-off that isn't feasible for the mass market, nor that it wouldn't scale up very well. Still an interesting project though.....

Bullseye's math is completely valid, as not only do you have to look at the percentage savings but more importantly the absolute savings. 5% off of a pair of shoes might not be important, but a 5% discount on the purchase of a house definitely is.....