Theory of letting a baby cry. Why? [Archive]

gman

Mar 4th, 2008, 11:40 PM

There is no good reason to let your baby cry.

IMO, there are many good reason to let my babies cry. No, you should not let them cry for over 10 minutes. Just don't jump to them, the first moment they cry. Wait a short period especially you know you have just attended them. If they had a long sleep already, you should attend them because you probably need to change them or feed them.

1. crying a short period of time allows them to sleep better afterward. If you want to have a good night sleep, let them cry a bit.
2. crying is their nature. Consider that as an exercise. Just like anything, too much is always bad.
3. They won't cry for attention after a while.
4. Let them cry does not mean you should not check them out just don't let them to see you. If they stop crying suddenly, that is the time you should worry.

I have 2 daughters and I don't have these crying problem after 2 months. People may say you can't train baby that way but it worked for me and for people I know.

getmail99

Mar 5th, 2008, 01:03 AM

1. crying a short period of time allows them to sleep better afterward. any reference please?

If you want to have a good night sleep, let them cry a bit. a good reason for you, not your baby.

2. crying is their nature. Consider that as an exercise. any reference please?

3. They won't cry for attention after a while. include adult.

4. Let them cry does not mean you should not check them out just don't let them to see you. If they stop crying suddenly, that is the time you should worry. I would rather not let them cry in the first place.

Whiplash7828

Mar 5th, 2008, 07:57 AM

There is no good reason to let your baby cry.

You don't have any children do you?

3weddings

Mar 5th, 2008, 08:12 AM

IMO, there are many good reason to let my babies cry. No, you should not let them cry for over 10 minutes. Just don't jump to them, the first moment they cry. Wait a short period especially you know you have just attended them. If they had a long sleep already, you should attend them because you probably need to change them or feed them.

1. crying a short period of time allows them to sleep better afterward. If you want to have a good night sleep, let them cry a bit.
2. crying is their nature. Consider that as an exercise. Just like anything, too much is always bad.
3. They won't cry for attention after a while.
4. Let them cry does not mean you should not check them out just don't let them to see you. If they stop crying suddenly, that is the time you should worry.

I have 2 daughters and I don't have these crying problem after 2 months. People may say you can't train baby that way but it worked for me and for people I know.

Precisely why we did it. I'd like to add that all 3 of my dds exhibited the desire for independance at an early age because we didn't jump everytime they cried.

Remember there is crying and there is wailing.

There is also no right and wrong, it is what works for you and your partner and what you are comfortable with.

I absolutely loathe when sides are taken and one insists they are right even with snide comments such as
(I know that statement is going to anger the parents who DID subscribe to that method... noone likes being called "wrong".)

Whiplash7828

Mar 5th, 2008, 08:50 AM

I'd like to add that all 3 of my dds exhibited the desire for independance at an early age because we didn't jump everytime they cried.

+1 for my son. :)

mart242

Mar 5th, 2008, 09:18 AM

+1 for my son. :)

And I think that parents who always attend to their baby as soon as they cry will do the same later on when they get older. That makes for kids who think they are prince / princess and deserve everything / have everything.

Similar thing: when kids fall. The worst thing you can do is say "oooohhhh" with your eyes wide open, a scared look because the child will start crying as soon as he sees you like that. If you act like nothing happened and just say "are you all right", they'll sometimes cry (if it hurts) and the rest of the time you'll get "no, I hurt my <...>" or "yes, I'm ok". Much better than kids who cry with every little fall or accident.

thelefteyeguy

Mar 5th, 2008, 09:19 AM

any reference please?
a good reason for you, not your baby.

any reference please?

include adult.

I would rather not let them cry in the first place.

references?

the references are from the experiences of parents.

after 6 months, my wife and I believe that we should let her cry a bit (ie 10-20max, first time was about 45mins)...now usually after 5-10mins...she goes to sleep on her own.

knapper

Mar 5th, 2008, 09:42 AM

We did the let cry approach at about 6 months, and it should be noted that it was at the recommendation of our pediatrition friend. Since that time our daughter has been a great sleeper, and I personally believe there is a direct link. You can say I am an uncaring/unloving parent, but my daughter is a very happy kid and has never mentioned a week of hell from her past. Remember that crying is their only form of communication, it does not mean they are hurt or need something. Also, at 6 months there is no physical need for your child to wake up and eat at night. Learning to sooth themselves and sleep by themselves is a good thing.

thelefteyeguy

Mar 5th, 2008, 09:46 AM

i forgot to mention...the reason my wife and I started at 6months is because my little one started to take solids at that time also

So we were sure that her crying at 1-3am was not due to hunger.

mrsenator

Mar 5th, 2008, 12:24 PM

The whole thing is very "politicized." It's really impossible to know if letting a 6 month old 'cry it out' is doing any harm or not, although people have tried to argue it both ways.

The ideal is to create an environment where baby goes to sleep on his own. If baby goes to only when you're holding him/nursing him/ singing to him/driving him around in a car then that may well become the only way he goes to bed. And it can be hell when he's weaned and you no longer have that as a option.

No one wants to leave a crying infant on his own. The problem is, that creating a healthy sleep habit where baby soothes himself to sleep is really difficult to do if you're responding to his crying by holding him/nursing him etc.

So parents tend to end up choosing from two undesirable options: 1) attending to baby whenever he wakes and soothing him to sleep every night which means the parents are seriously sleep deprived and baby is being taught that they can only sleep with Mommy and Daddy's intervention. 2) Letting junior 'cry it out' Some methods recommend leaving children to scream for hours. It seems many babies learn how to go to sleep this way, but at what cost?

Ultimately, it's difficult to be doctrinaire about the whole thing. Read up on the topic and pay attention to your child and hopefully you can find something that works.

nelsonmp5

Mar 5th, 2008, 01:18 PM

Thanks for all your great advice. I didn't want to be a big debate but only what your opinions and I guess what your results were. Good reading tho. I'll have to check out those books. I've also heard of Happiest Baby on the Block is a good one.
In the meantime, my kid is a newborn and for now we'll attend to her every need like most including the public health nurse recommends. So it sounds like 6 months is when she'd be old enough for any sort of program to kick in.
Just of note, I know of kids who still sleep with monitors at 5 and 7 yrs old. I definitely don't want to do that.

btw, don't take people's comments too literally. If it sounds unreasonable maybe their being unreasonable and hopefully others will take it for what its worth. This is a public forum for people to say anything. Doesn't mean we'll listen. If its not backedup or justified in anyway it should be ignored or just labeled an opinion. If I wanted a debate, I could have labelled this thread. "Which is best? Letting a baby cry or not?"

Thanks all.

thelefteyeguy

Mar 5th, 2008, 09:00 PM

gman

Mar 5th, 2008, 09:37 PM

any reference please?
a good reason for you, not your baby.

any reference please?

include adult.

I would rather not let them cry in the first place.

2 words. By experience. I have 2 daughters. How many do you have?

Precisely why we did it. I'd like to add that all 3 of my dds exhibited the desire for independance at an early age because we didn't jump everytime they cried.

+2. i.e. + my 2 daughters. ;)

Both girls did not have any crying problem on the first day they go to school like other kids. In fact, the first day my elder one went to a trail class (the school took a will be new student for one hour in a class before she attends it the coming school), she just walked straight in and never looked back. She just walked in, sat down and never turned her head.

I did not need to teach her anything and she is a straight A student. My 2nd one is not as good in school as her sister but she is still a top student.

BlueMax

Mar 5th, 2008, 10:51 PM

There is also no right and wrong, it is what works for you and your partner and what you are comfortable with.

I absolutely loathe when sides are taken and one insists they are right even with snide comments such as

You misinterpreted my words.... hope you weren't too steamed about it. ;)

I suppose a number of parents consider it "short term suffering for long term gain". Of course, we didn't let our kids cry it out and they slept through the night too, so maybe that short term suffering is totally unnecessary?

It boils down to different kids and parents too. Some kids may be more insecure than others, and some parents may have more or less tolerance for interrupting their own sleep cycles. So long as you're trying to do what's best for them rather than considering them an inconvenience that must be remedied. Motivation and method is critical here.

Sadly, I've known parents who do the "cry-out" method purely for themselves, and complain about how much they dislike having kids.

jed

Mar 5th, 2008, 11:27 PM

This is quite timely for us - our 13 mo old is still not sleeping through the night, as mom has been getting up when she wakes up and soothes her back to sleep.

But it has a detrimental effect on mom too - no sleep.

Our 5 yr old did nothing of the sort. When she woke up in the middle of the night I would go out and let her know things were ok, and back to sleep she'd go. Daughter # 2 would just scream if I picked her up.

But, its time. Now I'm getting up in the night and getting D2 back to sleep. Our present house is small (the other house is being renovated) so its not possible to let her cry it out as the whole house would be up. So we try this.

One thing we found with D1 is a consistent sleeping environment. Bed is @ 2000h every night, a particular lamp with a colored bulb would be lit right before bedtime, and some Palchelbel (sp?) music for an hour while she was putting herself to sleep.

But D1 is also "daddy's girl", big time. D2, is mom's. So we're trying to get me more involved to let girlie know that the environment is ok, she doesn't need mom, and is likely waking up now because of habit.

I'll keep you apprised in the next week or so as to how events unfold...hope I can make it..."Yawn" and its only 2100h!!!

getmail99

Mar 6th, 2008, 12:37 AM

references?
the references are from the experiences of parents.

2 words. By experience. I have 2 daughters. How many do you have?

Thanks, experience only, not a 'fact'. But the 'let a baby cry' side always presents it like a 'fact'.

Both sides can claim that their experiences is better :cheesygri .

Of course, we didn't let our kids cry it out and they slept through the night too, so maybe that short term suffering is totally unnecessary?

+1, experience from the other side too.

peroxide8888

Mar 6th, 2008, 01:56 AM

2 words. By experience. I have 2 daughters. How many do you have?

+2. i.e. + my 2 daughters. ;)

Both girls did not have any crying problem on the first day they go to school like other kids. In fact, the first day my elder one went to a trail class (the school took a will be new student for one hour in a class before she attends it the coming school), she just walked straight in and never looked back. She just walked in, sat down and never turned her head.

I did not need to teach her anything and she is a straight A student. My 2nd one is not as good in school as her sister but she is still a top student.

Thanks, experience only, not a 'fact'. But the 'let a baby cry' side always presents it like a 'fact'.

Both sides can claim that their experiences is better :cheesygri .

+1, experience from the other side too.You still haven't answered the question. I'll wager a guess that you don't have a child (or children).

mart242

Mar 6th, 2008, 06:36 AM

I suppose a number of parents consider it "short term suffering for long term gain". Of course, we didn't let our kids cry it out and they slept through the night too, so maybe that short term suffering is totally unnecessary?

Suffering? Crying is there only way of communicating, why would it be considered suffering if you let them cry out a bit? I don't think that any of us here is saying let the kids cry for hours.. but crying for 20 - 30 minutes has never hurt anyone.. as long as you know that the baby is ok.

Whiplash7828

Mar 6th, 2008, 07:39 AM

Suffering? Crying is there only way of communicating, why would it be considered suffering if you let them cry out a bit? I don't think that any of us here is saying let the kids cry for hours.. but crying for 20 - 30 minutes has never hurt anyone.. as long as you know that the baby is ok.

seriously...

since when is crying suffering?

gman

Mar 6th, 2008, 07:53 AM

BlueMax

Mar 6th, 2008, 09:23 AM

seriously...
since when is crying suffering?

Depends on the crying now, doesn't it?

One thing to consider... the "cry it out" method is only a fairly recent thing. Makes you wonder a little....

Whiplash7828

Mar 6th, 2008, 09:45 AM

Depends on the crying now, doesn't it?
Obviously

the "cry it out" method is only a fairly recent thing.
I think they just now labeled it...
there is no way this is a "new" method...

mart242

Mar 6th, 2008, 10:04 AM

IMO, 20 minutes is too much. It should be at most 10 minutes. Again, IMO.

Definitely not 20 - 30 minutes the first time.. start with a minute, 5, then 10.. 15.. I never had to go to 20 minutes. He'd stop before.

thelefteyeguy

Mar 6th, 2008, 11:23 AM

Definitely not 20 - 30 minutes the first time.. start with a minute, 5, then 10.. 15.. I never had to go to 20 minutes. He'd stop before.

different approaches....so many of them

some say 1 hr at most

some say gradual like the 5, 10 etc

it just what you are comfortable with

my wife and I did both.

first time was 45mins...it was prob the worst experience so far....but then we did the gradual method.

but I do recommend that you shouldnt try either methods until your little one has solid so you can rule out the hunger issue for crying.

mart242

Mar 6th, 2008, 11:25 AM

first time was 45mins...it was prob the worst experience so far....but then we did the gradual method.

:razz: Holy crap. 45 minutes. That's quite a start!

thelefteyeguy

Mar 6th, 2008, 11:36 AM

:razz: Holy crap. 45 minutes. That's quite a start!

my wife spend 3 days reading the crappy book and wanted to try it (i was quite angry about it too)...only got 3hrs of sleep that night.

it was painful hearing her cry for 45mins

btw...it doesnt happen anymore...my wife and I agree that 20mins at most is the limit.

however, my girl most of the time will not reach more than a few minutes before finding a fleece blanket to nibble on and fall back to sleep on her own. But there are still occasions where she reaches 20mins. Usually I can pin point it to oversleeping on the afternoon nap OR not sleeping enough at naps.

getmail99

Mar 7th, 2008, 10:51 PM

You still haven't answered the question. I'll wager a guess that you don't have a child (or children).

You missed all my posts about breast feeding, nipple confusion, breast feeding, vaccine, flouride, co-sleeping, .....

shoppingmama

Mar 7th, 2008, 11:06 PM

getmail99

Mar 8th, 2008, 12:23 AM

We never used a cry-it-out method ever. We always responded to our kids cues, if they were crying it's always for a reason. We are way past the baby stage and I have perfectly adjusted children who are outgoing and have no insecurities. We used the attachment parenting method and it worked wonderfully but it's a big committment, not always the easiest but I'm so glad we followed it and I see the benefits everyday.

+1. Babies only eat, play, sleep and have bowel movements. They cry always for a reason. As mart242 pointed out that this is the way they communicate. Why do we ignore their communications (aka cry). Benefits I can see are that they are always happy and confidence.

peroxide8888

Mar 8th, 2008, 01:25 AM

You missed all my posts about breast feeding, nipple confusion, breast feeding, vaccine, flouride, co-sleeping, .....That's still an ambiguous answer, plus you have no such posts in this thread (aka the context of the topic at hand). Are you ashamed to say that you are a parent? OK, I'll go first - I am a new parent of a little girl. Not so hard.

night_day

Mar 8th, 2008, 12:59 PM

There is also no right and wrong

I think this is key for everyone to understand when becoming a parent. As a new parent last year, you're bombarded with so many opinions on this kind of stuff, at the end of the day, you (and your spouse) should decide what works best for you and your child. Each set of parents are different, each child is different, just because you let them cry or don't let them cry, there is no magic solution. One of my friends, their baby slept without crying through the night with no "training" necessary, while others tried everything, but still the baby won't sleep.

The thing I find annoying is people on either side of the argument stuffing their opinion down your throat telling you that you're doing everything wrong. I really don't need to hear that :P

Hollasa

Mar 8th, 2008, 02:28 PM

We used more of an attachment parenting approach as well, and we have two happy and independent daughters (ages 7 and 4).

First, please ignore what everyone else says about your baby's sleep habits and what is "normal." These people are not living with you or your baby. Unless your doctor sleeps in the next room and your baby is keeping him awake every night, he has no reason to question a healthy baby's sleep habits.

http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/sleep.html

I also very much liked the Dr. Sears books on Attachment Parenting and Night time Parenting.

Babies do not cry to manipulate their parents; they cry because they need something and it is the only way they can communicate their need. Far from �spoiling� infants by picking them up when they cry, research shows that parents who respond quickly find their infants tend to cry less, are easier to soothe, and sleep better.
http://www.cccf-fcsge.ca/practice/health%20watch/babyw_en.html

getmail99

Mar 8th, 2008, 11:43 PM

That's still an ambiguous answer, plus you have no such posts in this thread (aka the context of the topic at hand). Are you ashamed to say that you are a parent? OK, I'll go first - I am a new parent of a little girl. Not so hard.

Does it matter? Gina Ford can write books about childcare and she is not a parent.

Remember, she is YOUR child, not someone else (include your doctor), please see my threads below.

Here is a post about my son's nipple confusion
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5873816&postcount=33

about my son's vaccine experience
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4863237&postcount=42
answer to the previous post
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4878528&postcount=45

Did I say about delaying the first shot to 6 month in the last link? That post is in March 2007, here is a recent research about the benefit of delaying the first shot. I am ahead of the research.
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=552737

To be fair, I also have a question for you?
If your child keeps on crying, how do you know if your child is teething and she is in plain?

peroxide8888

Mar 9th, 2008, 01:14 AM

Does it matter? Gina Ford can write books about childcare and she is not a parent.

Remember, she is YOUR child, not someone else (include your doctor), please see my threads below.

Here is a post about my son's nipple confusion
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5873816&postcount=33

about my son's vaccine experience
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4863237&postcount=42
answer to the previous post
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4878528&postcount=45

Did I say about delaying the first shot to 6 month in the last link? That post is in March 2007, here is a recent research about the benefit of delaying the first shot. I am ahead of the research.
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=552737

To be fair, I also have a question for you?
If your child keeps on crying, how do you know if your child is teething and she is in plain?Don't need your life story; simple answer to a simple question would have sufficed. Calm down.

Crying? Teething? Plain [sic]? Couldn't tell you, haven't gotten that far yet. See... simple answer to a simple question; easy as pie.

getmail99

Mar 9th, 2008, 10:36 AM

Don't need your life story; simple answer to a simple question would have sufficed. Calm down.

Crying? Teething? Plain [sic]? Couldn't tell you, haven't gotten that far yet. See... simple answer to a simple question; easy as pie.

I think you look for real parenting experience to justify the correctness of information. :) Try to collection information from parents and filter it out is not just a matter of simple question and answer, I wish it is like that. :cheesygri

BTW, be careful, teething usually is about six month if I remember correctly. But it can be as early as four month.

Okay, go back to the topic before I go. Actually, for me, it is an acceptable answer when someone gives me a reason that the parents want a good sleep to do cry-it-out. What I hate to see is someone who has the time and energy to check out the baby's cry but believes that cry-it-out is the "modern" and "scientific" method to raise a baby.

Monette

Mar 11th, 2008, 08:59 AM

I agree that there is no right or wrong answer. I think some parents expect too much too soon. I'm guilty of that as well, so I'm not pointing fingers only at others. In our culture, so much is expected of our children when they are babies. One of the first questions you get asked is "are they sleeping through the night yet"? Realistically, a baby's sleep pattern and internal clock don't really mature enough for consistent sleep until they are probably around 6 months - 1 year old and sometimes they even start waking up again in toddlerhood due to illness, separation anxiety, etc. We expect our children to conform to our sleep patterns and get upset when they wake in the night when most of the time we created the sleep problem by helping them develop bad sleep habits. Frankly, sleep deprivation is part of the price you pay for being a parent!

I think it's important to know your baby. Don't expect he/she to conform to a standard or compare them to other children. If you're really lucky, you'll get a great sleeper who just naturally sleeps 12hrs a night without waking to eat or for a cuddle with mom & dad. Not many of those around!

If you can stand to hear your baby cry for an hour or more, then try cry it out, but probably not before 6 months old. However, some babies cry so long and hard that they actually vomit. They can also develop crib phobia and have a fear of being alone in their crib afterward. Those are extreme reactions, but it does happen in some cases. There are other ways to eventually help your child sleep through the night, such as slowly start watering down the night feed bottles or giving them a stuffed toy or blanket to cuddle when they wake up in the night. It may take a lot longer and more patience to use those alternative methods, but in the end it may be more suitable for your child. Do what you think is right for your family.

mart242

Mar 11th, 2008, 09:22 AM

However, some babies cry so long and hard that they actually vomit.

Actually, I've seen kids that cry a lot and vomit on purpose because they then get their parent's attention...

BlueMax

Mar 11th, 2008, 11:28 AM

Actually, I've seen kids that cry a lot and vomit on purpose because they then get their parent's attention...

...perhaps those children should be getting more attention in the first place? They're babies!

mart242

Mar 11th, 2008, 11:49 AM

...perhaps those children should be getting more attention in the first place? They're babies!

I said kids.. not babies. These were toddlers.

Monette

Mar 11th, 2008, 01:12 PM

I said kids.. not babies. These were toddlers.

There's probably a much deeper issue there if toddlers need to resort to that to get their parent's attention!

Babies who are left to cry it out are definitely not vomiting on purpose for attention. Don't think they've figured out how to manipulate with vomiting quite yet.

mart242

Mar 11th, 2008, 01:57 PM

There's probably a much deeper issue there if toddlers need to resort to that to get their parent's attention!

They could play their parents to have everything they want.. even at that young age. It was crazy.

BlueMax

Mar 11th, 2008, 03:05 PM

They could play their parents to have everything they want.. even at that young age. It was crazy.

And that's where balance is critical here. Some parents go too far in either direction - either too much or too little caregiving.

For the one with too little, they're starving their children for attention in order to "teach them self-reliance" and they try to get what they need....

...the ones who give too much are either smothering their kids giving them no self-identity (let alone privacy) or are giving in to their kids' every want, which gives the kids no boundaries and want everything and have tantrums knowing they'll get whatever they scream for.

This is not the case with babies. Coming quickly to a crying baby does NOT teach them the pandering you see above - it only lets the infant know it's loved and cared for, and that's all they know.

Letting babies cry a little to see if they go to sleep is a very different from letting them cry for half an hour or more. The only thing a baby will get from that is fear and sadness - eventually knowing mommy and daddy can't be counted on. A negtive way to teach self-reliance, isn't it?

Balance is the key. When a baby starts getting old enough (6-12 months) it's time to start balancing... letting baby know you're there, but you can't cuddle and play in the middle of the night. It's a longer process, but less damaging.

Monette

Mar 12th, 2008, 08:25 AM

Letting babies cry a little to see if they go to sleep is a very different from letting them cry for half an hour or more. The only thing a baby will get from that is fear and sadness - eventually knowing mommy and daddy can't be counted on.

That's totally true. Don't rush in. Babies sometimes even cry in their sleep. But when's it's the desperate wah, wah, wah kind of cry that escalates and doesn't stop after a few minutes, it means "I need help". I wonder what it does to a baby psychologically in the long term to know that they're actually alone in this world and can't trust their parents to help.

thelefteyeguy

Mar 12th, 2008, 10:10 AM

my updated experience...

almost 7 months old.

My little one is finally consistently getting 10hr+ of sleep during the night (my wife is happy :))

really it took 1 week of training (and getting her on solids really helped I think, and putting her on a set schedule & sticking to it religiously)

I find that if she does "cry" during the night ...it's because she can't find her blanket that she sucks on.

brendonp

Mar 12th, 2008, 11:22 AM

Since it sounds like this is mostly a "sleeping" issue, as opposed to cry due to pain/hunger/etc/etc, I'll throw my $.02 in.

We don't let our daughter cry when it comes to sleeping, but she's been sleeping through the night since about 6 weeks - granted at 6 weeks, "through the night" really means about 6 hours, at least according to our doc (we were worried that she wasn't getting enough food, but she was growing like crazy, so obviously no problem!). From about 6 months onwards she's been pretty much a 11+ hour a night baby (usually 7pm-7am).

We did start "training" at 6 weeks, as crazy as that might sound, though it really wasn't necessary until close to 6 months - we used the pick up/put down method; basically if she cried, she got picked up, and when she stopped she got put down - a bunch of back rubbing and "shh'ing" sounds also came into play! It may sound a bit counter-intuitive, but it worked quite nicely for us, though required a good deal of patience around the 6 month mark when she decided not to sleep through the night for a few weeks; at this time, it took close to an hour each time to get her to sleep - you can pick up and put down a baby a lot of times in an hour! But a week of pain and she was back on track. During her bouts of teething, she'd occasionally wake up as well - but you can't fault a baby for crying about painful gums.

The upside is that, save for a few days here and there, my wife and I never felt really sleep deprived - the first few weeks were obviously much tougher for her because of the regular feeding schedule; I got up with her every time for the first 2 weeks, but she started telling me to go back to bed as I was getting pretty tired as I was working longer hours and not napping with the baby during the day.

As a few people have mentioned, there's probably not a lot of right and wrong per se - just varying degrees of comfort for you and your child - and I can understand the argument that a well rested parent with a child that cries occasionally may make for an overall happier child in the long run (of course the opposite argument is valid as well!),

Cheers,

Brendon

Toronto

Mar 14th, 2008, 11:49 AM

There is no good reason to let your baby cry.

This answer is just as wrong as someone saying "you absolutely should let your baby cry it out".

Every kid is different. With our son, 2 weeks after he started solid food he would still cry at night. When we picked him up and gave him his bottle he would fall asleep IMMEDIATELY after 5 sucks of the bottle. This was very obvious that he cried for comfort. This was taking a toll on us. Parents that are tired from a few hours of sleep a day are not as aware, thus affecting our ability to parent. We let him cry it out for 3 days (each time he fell asleep within about 10-15 mins) and since then he has been waking up refreshed and happy and so have his parents.

+1. Babies only eat, play, sleep and have bowel movements. They cry always for a reason. As mart242 pointed out that this is the way they communicate. Why do we ignore their communications (aka cry). Benefits I can see are that they are always happy and confidence.

Kids will communicate when they want things they cannot have as well. You don't have to ignore them. When we let our son cry we acknowledged him and didn't leave his side. This worked for US. For some it may be better not to be in the room at all. For us we are in a much healthier situation now for both baby and parent. Parents are not running on 3 hours sleep and snapping at each other, baby is in a happy home filled with love and attention that we can give him because we are NOT TIRED.

Your reasoning to me is a bit old fashion and 1 dimensional. Short term benefits for the baby may be that they are happy and confident but you need to think past that. If you keep giving your child what they ask for will they become spoiled? Will they have a false sense of confidence just because they get what they want? Now what if you cannot provide what they want, will this result in an unhappy and unconfident child?

You have to know what works for your child and your situation and no one can say that one method should be used to raise all children i.e "There is no good reason to let your baby cry" because it's already been proven that both methods can work or both can fail.

getmail99

Mar 15th, 2008, 01:54 AM

Your reasoning to me is a bit old fashion and 1 dimensional.

Thanks for your "modern" advice. (I don't see cry-it-out is "more modern" and "more scientific" than attachment parenting:?: ). When it comes to taking care of babies, I or some parents would like to stick to the safe, proven and old fashion way. I remember when I was a small kid, I was reading some articles about "the modern method suggested by doctors" to sleep a baby is to sleep the baby on stomach. I was thinking at that time, "no way, this is very uncomfortable for the baby....", you know what has happened later.

Well, this story means nothing to you guys but somehow I can always remember it. Now I just use butter instead of the modern hydrogenated vegetable oil, sugar instead of Sweeteners.

If you keep giving your child what they ask for will they become spoiled? Will they have a false sense of confidence just because they get what they want? Now what if you cannot provide what they want, will this result in an unhappy and unconfident child?

Sorry, we are talking about baby, not toddler.

... because it's already been proven that both methods can work or both can fail.

Good point, but first I would like to see some proofs. Either officials, like the FDA, CDC, CMA, OMA, .... or "conspiracy websites", I don't mind, (you know, I am a fan of "conspiracy websites" :cheesygri, those websites are always ahead of the time, see my comment about delaying the first shot) that a 2 to 4 months old baby is trainable to sleep with cry-it-out method and no damage will be done to the baby in the long term and hopefully smarter :) than the attachment parenting babies.

Second, what is the rate of failure of the two methods. As several posters pointed out, cry-it-out is not 100% safe. While we don't know the failure rate, that is no turning back to raise a child, "sorry, my son, I should use the other method to make you sleep", I would stick to old fashion proven way. I choose butter than hydrogenated vegetable oil.

Several posters, for example, BlueMax, Monette provided very good reasoning. Others provided their experiences. I would suggest parents look at their posts.

Ben Jr

Mar 16th, 2008, 05:08 PM

This is sure to always be a debatable topic. The by-the-book parents, (ie. first time, or soon to be parents) will give u the book answers while every experienced parent will give their opinions.

Granted our little girl is only 7 weeks, so any kind of 'wait it out' approach won't be very effective for some time. I can say that after a few mins she already breaks out a sweat...and in fact, a coworker of mine let his son 'cry it out' for 20-30mins only to have to take him to the hospital for a few days to take care of the elevated temperature for this very reason. I don't recall what age the son was, but I doubt I'd wait any longer than 20mins at any age.

Right now, I'm happy with a 4 hour stretch with continuous sleep, sometimes more if mom takes it upon herself to sleep in the spare room and let me sleep the night.

Toronto

Mar 17th, 2008, 02:46 PM

Thanks for your "modern" advice. (I don't see cry-it-out is "more modern" and "more scientific" than attachment parenting:?: ). When it comes to taking care of babies, I or some parents would like to stick to the safe, proven and old fashion way. I remember when I was a small kid, I was reading some articles about "the modern method suggested by doctors" to sleep a baby is to sleep the baby on stomach. I was thinking at that time, "no way, this is very uncomfortable for the baby....", you know what has happened later.

I never gave you any advice on parenting, let alone "modern" advice. I said your way of thinking is dated. If you read again you will see that I clearly state both methods can be used depending on your child and that it is careless to say that only 1 method will work. You don't always start babies on solid food at 6 months, potty training at 18 months etc. because you have to know if your child is ready and if it will work. Sleeping is the same.

Well, this story means nothing to you guys but somehow I can always remember it. Now I just use butter instead of the modern hydrogenated vegetable oil, sugar instead of Sweeteners.

???

Sorry, we are talking about baby, not toddler.

My wife and I did this when my son was 6 months old. That is not considered a toddler in my books.

Good point, but first I would like to see some proofs. Either officials, like the FDA, CDC, CMA, OMA, .... or "conspiracy websites", I don't mind, (you know, I am a fan of "conspiracy websites" :cheesygri, those websites are always ahead of the time, see my comment about delaying the first shot) that a 2 to 4 months old baby is trainable to sleep with cry-it-out method and no damage will be done to the baby in the long term and hopefully smarter :) than the attachment parenting babies.

If I were to google now I could probably find many articles agreeing with both sides. You keep asking for proof yet have not supplied any yourself. Again I am not asking for proof. I know that I can find a lot supporting both sides so it is pointless.

Second, what is the rate of failure of the two methods. As several posters pointed out, cry-it-out is not 100% safe. While we don't know the failure rate, that is no turning back to raise a child, "sorry, my son, I should use the other method to make you sleep", I would stick to old fashion proven way. I choose butter than hydrogenated vegetable oil.

Nothing is 100% effective, including your method. I can't provide any failure rates supporting or denying either method. Neither can you.

Several posters, for example, BlueMax, Monette provided very good reasoning. Others provided their experiences. I would suggest parents look at their posts.

They did give good reasons, but so did people supporting crying out. I don't think you listened to them.

My son was taught to sleep through the night in 3 nights, a total of less than 1 hour crying total. He always sleeps through the night and has very healthy sleeping habits because of the less-than 1 hour of time we invested in him. Healthy and regular sleep patterns lead to better health. Although irregular sleep is normal in newborns, I am talking about a slightly older baby usually who has started eating solid food. I have also read accounts of people trying the cry it out and it not working. Ben Jr above is an example. They tried and now they know.

You look at the whole situation as possibly abandoning your child or not fulfilling their needs, but you should really look at it as encouraging healthy and regular sleep patterns.

getmail99

Mar 17th, 2008, 10:52 PM

My son was taught to sleep through the night in 3 nights, a total of less than 1 hour crying total. He always sleeps through the night and has very healthy sleeping habits because of the less-than 1 hour of time we invested in him....

Good to know it works with your son. :lol: Lucky I did not try it because if my son did not sleep through the night, usually it was because he needed more milk, growth growth spurts or teething. :cheesygri

looniepincher

Mar 18th, 2008, 09:21 AM

Good thread. I can't really say what works or not because we're not due till August but it's quite clear that both approaches have worked. It's probably more a case of being adaptable to the specific needs of your child.

In our culture, so much is expected of our children when they are babies...We expect our children to conform to our sleep patterns and get upset when they wake in the night when most of the time we created the sleep problem by helping them develop bad sleep habits.
I think it's important to know your baby. Don't expect he/she to conform to a standard or compare them to other children. If you're really lucky, you'll get a great sleeper who just naturally sleeps 12hrs a night without waking to eat or for a cuddle with mom & dad. Not many of those around!

Monette, you've only got a few posts on here but they're always sensible and informative. Quality poster.

Monette

Mar 18th, 2008, 09:36 AM

Monette, you've only got a few posts on here but they're always sensible and informative. Quality poster.

Thanks looniepincher! Glad to see I have something of worth to add to these discussions. Good luck with the new baby.

thelefteyeguy

Mar 18th, 2008, 10:09 AM

Good to know it works with your son. :lol: Lucky I did not try it because if my son did not sleep through the night, usually it was because he needed more milk, growth growth spurts or teething. :cheesygri

If it works for your son, and you have no problems with waking up 3, 4 times a night, then sure it's ok for you.

I think many of us on the other side of the fence knows that growth spurt and teething should not be a daily occurance. If you are feeding your child solids and have a feeding routine (sticking by it daily), hunger should not be a nightly issue. How you can test this is how much your child is eating at the middle of the night. If your child is eating lots in the middle of the night, then I would definitely bump up the during the day feeding (esp 1 hour prior to sleeping). If your child is not eating much during the night and just wants the attention, then letting your baby cry it out technique is something every parent should try. Definitely give it a week. It's not easy and most parents have experienced the difficulties.

My daughter was waking up 3 times a night on a nightly occurance. We rules out teething by feeling the gums during the day, she was not even eating much, and it wasnt a growth spurt. She was crying with her eyes closed.

There is no harm in trying techniques that many have experience that it works. Again, I would recommend trying this around 6 months (or when they begin solids to def'n rule out hunger). And the important thing is when you are trying these techniques is to religiously follow daily routines of when to feed milk, solids, nap times, and bath times.

There are many books on these techniques, and no harm in trying (give it a week, and hopefully you are rewarded with 8 hours+ of continuous sleep....my wife is ;))

getmail99

Mar 18th, 2008, 11:35 PM

If it works for your son, and you have no problems with waking up 3, 4 times a night, then sure it's ok for you.

I think many of us on the other side of the fence knows that growth spurt and teething should not be a daily occurance. If you are feeding your child solids and have a feeding routine (sticking by it daily), hunger should not be a nightly issue. How you can test this is how much your child is eating at the middle of the night. If your child is eating lots in the middle of the night, then I would definitely bump up the during the day feeding (esp 1 hour prior to sleeping). If your child is not eating much during the night and just wants the attention, then letting your baby cry it out technique is something every parent should try. Definitely give it a week. It's not easy and most parents have experienced the difficulties.

My daughter was waking up 3 times a night on a nightly occurance. We rules out teething by feeling the gums during the day, she was not even eating much, and it wasnt a growth spurt. She was crying with her eyes closed.

There is no harm in trying techniques that many have experience that it works. Again, I would recommend trying this around 6 months (or when they begin solids to def'n rule out hunger). And the important thing is when you are trying these techniques is to religiously follow daily routines of when to feed milk, solids, nap times, and bath times.

There are many books on these techniques, and no harm in trying (give it a week, and hopefully you are rewarded with 8 hours+ of continuous sleep....my wife is ;))

Thanks for your advice, my son is three already and passed that stage a long time ago.

We look back and confirm that cry-it-out may not work for us because:

1. We found out the teething was after the fact. That was no sign, nothing, two to three days later we saw the gum turned red. Luckily we comforted him with the breast milk (pain killer from the breast milk).

2. The growth spurt is necessary for the mother to increase the milk. The more the mother feeds, the more milk will be generated. Usually the mother will only need to wake up 1 night, maximum 2 nights. Usually the next morning the mother will see milk supply increased. BTW, I think his eyes was also closed when he was crying. I don't understand how you can rule out growth spurt?

These are just two examples why cry-it-out may fail. Well, if the parents let the baby cry for three nights and the teething pain also gone after 3 nights. So on the fourth night, the baby stops crying. Does cry-it-out work in this case?

ashio

Mar 19th, 2008, 01:39 PM

Interesting thread. I can't help but want to add:

So far, three months being parent, we see no reason to let our son cry. Might need min to settle, but no reason for us to push it hard, now or later on.

Food for thought: ever thought that letting the baby cry for too long before attending to it (be for any reason or you may have given in) may have taught it that crying will get what it want??? Hmmmmm How old is our human species? Never mind about milk, nutrition, or sickness, have we not understand much about baby cry until now??? Wait long enough and whoever wrote book on this theory will have to rewrite what is best. Such book only appeal to those parent who are busy outside of home anyway.

Please not all baby are the same. If your baby is too dependent, accept it, aint smart pushing it too hard.