Got my unrestricted gun license: Rifle Suggestions

[George W. Bush]

All right peeps... I need some help here from gun owners and such. I got my gun (unrestricted) license, and plan to getting the handgun as well. For the time being, I want to concentrate on the rifles.

I really like the mechanism and the potential of the bolt type of guns.

For the ones now knowing what they are, here is a picture of a typical bolt action gun:

http://www.prbullet.com/action.jpg

I am looking for suggestions and help on getting a decent bolt action rifle.

I am mostly interested in long distance shooting, and NOT hunting animals, or such. I intend to shoot at ranges of at least 100+ meters (500 feet or so).

I like precision shooting at long distances, and would like to purchase a bolt rifle that is capable of accurate shooting at very long distances. Any suggestions?

Also, I live near Toronto, and need to know where there are outside ranges where I can practice and sign for precision shooting.

Thank you!

[Nav]

I cant help you with the rifle suggestion, but would like to inquire about the license process.

How long did it take? (End to end), and how much does the safety course cost? (how long is the course?)

I tried to get this info by calling the ministry but I was on hold for almost 10 minutes and gave up.

Thanks,

Nav

[George W. Bush]

Went to a gun shop - they all have application forms. Course took two days - 8 hours per day. Do the practical, and paper tests, and voila. Send in the papers, and a month later or so get the license. Double voila. It may seem complicated, but it easy. Go to a local gun shop/dealer, ask for application and you are done.

Cost about $110 for course + book, and $40 for test, roughly.

[ricoboxing]

oshawa skeet and gun has a 300m rifle range.

my first rifle was a savage mkII, .22lr
i used it to hunt small game and for plinking.

get a .22lr when youre starting out, ammo is dirt cheap so you can shoot away non stop.

[UrbanPoet]

Cant help you there =( I only do hand guns and antiques.

[mrwinky]

speaking from hunting experience, I would look into a .270 (a good flat shooting, all around decent rifle) I purchased a Tikka T3 Lite in stainless. As a tip I would recommend that you go with a heavier rifle. Since the lighter the rifle the bigger the kick :) My Tikka comes in at 7 pounds with scope. As well try looking around at used rifles, you can get yourself something decent on the cheap to practice with, and then move up in the world. Just remember to take care of it, and practice safe shooting. Good luck


Winky Out

[Denich]

so you have your PAL but didnt get RPAL???

at first learn how to shoot, get yourself a .22lr something like a cooey or savage because anything else will kill you in terms of cost (rifle, accessories, AMMO!)
just an example
Savage mk2 .22lr - $210
Scope - around $100
Ammo - $15-$20 for 500

now centerfire
Rem 700 - $1300
Scope - luepold vx-3 - $1200
rings, bipod, new stock, barrel, and so on and so forth (trust me you will want all that, not need but want) another probably $600
Ammo (if not reloading) .308 probably around $25 for 20 rounds

as for range check silverdale and guelph. there are quite a few outdoor ranges in your area

[frankeng2003]

ruger 10/22. I hear they have 50 round magazines for it. 22 lr ammo is cheap and you don't need to reload.
for rifles, how about a Lee enfield SMLE. 10 round magazine bolt action rifle. I hear they are affordable, and fairly good.

[Bazooka Joe]

oshawa skeet and gun has a 300m rifle range.

my first rifle was a savage mkII, .22lr
i used it to hunt small game and for plinking.

get a .22lr when youre starting out, ammo is dirt cheap so you can shoot away non stop.

+1

A brick of 22lr is so cheap.

Expect sticker shock when you start buying high power ammo though.

I know you said you don't hunt, so I have no idea what to recommend. A target air rifle costs several thousand dollars, I shudder to think what someone would spend on a target high power rifle.

Edit: For a high power rifle 100m is actually considered short range. I know a number of people who have taken a deer at 300+ yards.

Edit 2: Your conversion program needs work :p

Edit 3 (this could be a record): Should I really be providing advice to a politically motivated person who is looking to purchase and train with long range rifle work expressly not for the purpose of hunting? I dunno about this...

[162]

If you choose to buy only one rifle, skip the .22 idea. Standard calibre's ranging from .243 - .280 will give you the best target shooting capability. Anything larger in standard calibre tends to drop off over a distance greater than 500ft., the exception being magnum loads such as .300/7mm/.264.
If I was to choose one, I'd pick a .270 or .280 as they are the most versatile calibres. If you ever decide to begin hunting, a .270/.280 is sufficient for deer, elk, moose, or bear.
For target shooting, don't get a short barrel as this will restrict accuracy.
A good scope with good scope rings is a must. Suggest 3X9 variable minimum if not 4X12 for long range (800ft)
Any of the calibres above with good practice and ammo should give you 2-3 inch groupings at 500ft.
Rifles - $500-$600
Scopes/Rings - $250 - $350

As a package they can be cheaper.

[heymike]

skip the .22 idea.

Economically, it is still probably cheaper to get 2 guns, one being the 22. "Range" is relative, in my opinion, based on the weapon in hand. I would argue 50 yards with a open sight 22 vs. 500 years with scoped a 7mm provides much the same effect when learning marksmanship. Difference is the 22 shell costs 10-20 cents while a 7mm will run you $2 a shell for the cheap ones. Also, bigger guns = sorer shoulder.

If you plan on shooting off a table for your tenure it is moot argument. But if you are trying shots from different positions, ranges, targets, etc, nothin beats cheap ammo for this purpose.

Similar to printers, you may want to look at the ammo prices before getting the gun.


But for bigger guns, I think the 270 is likely one of the best bangs for the buck; excuse the pun. You can down anything with them and you don't have to suffer the embarrasment of putting a sky light in a animal if you have buck fever. Ammo is reasonable as well, for the cheap stuff.

[Spray]

100 meters is easy

Ruger 10/22 or Remington 597. Both great guns, upgrade the hammer on the 597 and it shoots better then then 10/22 at half the cost.

Post on canadiangunnutz.com if you're serious. Please dont post firearm related stuff on here, gonna get flamed too much.

Then again I don't even know if you're serious with this topic.

[UrbanPoet]

100 meters is easy

Ruger 10/22 or Remington 597. Both great guns, upgrade the hammer on the 597 and it shoots better then then 10/22 at half the cost.

Post on canadiangunnutz.com if you're serious. Please dont post firearm related stuff on here, gonna get flamed too much.

Then again I don't even know if you're serious with this topic.

no flaming here yet...
Then again... theres the Gunnutz effect similar to the RFD effect :D

[George W. Bush]

I rather get a nice rifle from start vs. spending money on two. The .270 or a .280 for distance AND accuracy I guess... eh?

The .22 may be too small I think and rather skip on it. I do not intend to hunt animals, I am against that concept. I prefer to target shoot from long distances - precision shooting that is.

Are these rifles (.270 and .280 capable of 1km + distances)?

Thank you.

[162]

Are these rifles (.270 and .280 capable of 1km + distances)?

Thank you.

Capable of bullet travel that far - yes. Accuracy - no.
I would say their bullet drop is about 12"@400 yards increases big time past that point.

[Spray]

If you want to shoot 1000 yards go out, get a Remington 700 chambered in good old .308. Drop down the $600 on a GOOD leopauld scope. Have someone who knows what they're doing sight it in, and have at it.

Honestly if you're starting to shoot, and think you're gonna be hitting 1000 yard targets anytime soon you're probably dreaming. Start with a .22. The ammo is cheaper, and shooting a .22 at 125-150 yards is about the same as shooting a .308 at 1000. The bullets will react very similar in wind movement.

[ali123]

If you want to shoot 1000 yards go out, get a Remington 700 chambered in good old .308. Drop down the $600 on a GOOD leopauld scope. Have someone who knows what they're doing sight it in, and have at it.



Is that the same Remington that makes electric shavers?

[najibs]

a 36-year old virgin with a gun? Oh my....:-0

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6533693&postcount=2

[Spray]

It was. Remington sold that part off to Rayovac, which makes the shavers IIRC.


Is that the same Remington that makes electric shavers?

[jcoltage]

hmmm Remington 700 .308 is that a bolt action riffle? if not then the the range on that would be less than 500 yards would it not?

From what I read the Rem 700 seems to be top dog in its field ... now choosing a round is going to be tricky too...

oh the gun barrel life span is 4000 round ... just to let you know.

[Peckerwood]

I agree with many of the choices presented...22LR is definitely the best to start with.

If you are looking purely for accuracy then seek out a Cooey single shot for a beginner rifle. Very simple and reliable system and with an exceptional potential for accuracy.

A Savage Model 64B is also good as an upgrade to a semiauto before going to a Ruger 10/22. The Savage is also simple and reliable when properly cleaned and maintained(although one could argue that the Ruger is easier to disassemble)

Going to larger calibers one should try out either a bolt action 223, or a 22-250 before going on to 7mm Mauser(availability of wartime surplus rifles) or 308(7.62x51mm)

If you also at some decide to move into semiauto centerfire rifles, one suggestion would be to go with a non-restricted Sig PE90 in 223 and then move up to the M14 in 7.62x51mm. A Chinese company called Norinco produces a variant of the M14 called the M305...it uses the same magazines as well as the same ammunition and is interchangeable with all M14 parts. You can even get a scope mount to place optics on the thing.

Good Luck with your choices and welcome to the Shooting Sports

:D

[Peckerwood]

hmmm Remington 700 .308 is that a bolt action riffle? if not then the the range on that would be less than 500 yards would it not?

From what I read the Rem 700 seems to be top dog in its field ... now choosing a round is going to be tricky too...

oh the gun barrel life span is 4000 round ... just to let you know.
Some variants although heavily modified can be used to reliably hit targets with much practice out to the 1000 meter range

Generally though the off the shelf Remington 700 in 308 winchester can hit out from 500-700 meters with practice and patience. Reloads FTW though

[i6s1]

The most important question is budget.

The other problem is that you say you want to shoot 100m+, which could mean 200m, or it could mean 1km.

If you mean 1km, the problem might be that there aren't many shooting ranges that have that sort of space. Is there one nearby for you?

Almost any new CF bolt gun will hit a target at 200m or more.

Accurate is a relative term. I paid $1000 for my Rem 700 LVSF in .223, with a VX2. It shoots about .5moa or about 1 inch at 200 yards. Even my Rem 700 BDL in 30-06 shot 1moa from the factory, (most bolt guns do) so it should around 2 inches at 200 yards although I haven't shot it at that distance yet. I consider both guns *accurate* and both should theoretically hit targets at 1000 yards. Since they're both 1moa, they should hit a 10" circle at 1000 yards with no wind.

But wind makes a HUGE difference at long ranges. For example, take a .308. Each MPH of wind will blow the bullet ~10" over 1000 yards. Why spend a pile of money on a rifle that will be mechanically accurate to 2" at 1000 yards when you can't even guess the wind to the nearest yard? If you have a 1moa .308 and can guess the wind -/+5MPH, you'll theoretically be accurate to around 110 inches at 1000 yards. If you spend $5000 and get a gun that's 0.2moa, and you can guess the wind to -/+5MPH, you'll theoretically be accurate to 102 inches at 1000 yards.

If you want to shoot accurately at long distances, buy a .22 and practice at short distances first. .22 is very suseptable to wind, so it's great practice. You'll be wasting expensive centerfire ammo to learn how to shoot with one. You'll get far more practice out of a .22 for your money, unless you're rich and time is the limiting factor, not money.

The point is, doing well at 1000 yard shoots requires skill and equipment. Both the shooter and the gun contribute to the overall accuracy of each shot. Guns that win 1000 yard shoots are mega-expensive, and there's not much point in buying a mega-expensive gun that accurate to an .1moa when the shooter is going to add 2moa of error.

The other thing is that any gun can be customized gradually. You can start with any Rem 700 rifle, lets say a .300WM or 338WM. Use the rifle, and get used to it, and get some practice in. Fairly soon, have the trigger done by a gunsmith. As you progress, upgrade the stock. Eventually, you'll want to upgrade the barrel, and you might want to get a different calibre. The .300 Lapua and .338 Lapua are popular with the long-range crowd, just be prepared to replace a barrel ($500+) every 500-1000 shots.

If you don't really have a budget, get a Barret or McMillan TAC-50. If the TAC-50 can kill someone at 2.5km, it can't be a slouch at 1km. You'll only need to part with about $7000, plus a minimum of $1000 for the scope.

But as I've said, it's best to start with a rifle that's better then you are, and then upgrade as your skill goes. Eventually, the only thing left of the gun might be the action, but you'll have build YOUR custom gun, not just gone and bought someone elses.

Buy a .22 for practice, and for your main gun, start with:

1. A Rem 700 in .300WM. Any model will do, but some of the heavy barrel models will be more accurate from the factory. Avoid fluting if you're going for accuracy, fluted barrels are less accurate for any given barrel OD. Turn it into a custom .338 Lapua when you want to take it to the next level. The .308 is great as well, but you can't turn it into a .338 Lapua. $600-$1300.

2. A Ziess Conquest scope. Roughly the same price as a VX3, but from the reviews I've read, most people who've tried both prefer the Ziess. That's not taking anything away from Luepold. Don't bother with a 50mm scope. 40mm is all that a target shooter needs. $600.

3. Leupold Long range (+20moa) 1 piece bases with STD mounts. Less then $100.

[i6s1]

A couple of other things:

The scope should be worth 50 to 100% of the cost of the rifle it sits on.

Read this:
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-equipment/

[jcoltage]

Sniping
A long range variation on the previous theme. A very precise bolt action rifle with a good scope. I suggest .308 winchester caliber, because it is effective and common - also known as 7.62mm NATO, it is one of the major ammunition types used by the U.S. military. You may want to spend about as much money on your scope as you do on the rifle. Or not. Leupold makes good scopes. This kind of gun is also known as a Hunting or Deer Rifle. I loled that .. the OP is going for Humans

Remington 700P
Remington 700P Previously known as the Remington Police Sniper Special - it is one of the most accurate out of the box rifles in a reasonable price range. It is known to do less than 1" diameter groups at 100 yards without modification.

Remington 700VS
Remington 700VS Remington 700 Varmint Synthetic - the two significant differences from the 700P are a cheaper stock, and a significantly lower price. Since everything else that's important - the barrel, receiver, trigger, etc., are the same, it is an excellent option if you want the best but would prefer to save some money. Also available left-handed. True RFD Gun

Long Range Anti-Material
Serbu .50BFG
BFG-50 The Serbu .50BFG is an accurate, well designed, attractive bolt-action .50BFG rifle. I believe it is the least expensive .50BMG rifle.

[computer01]

I know it's tempting to want to jump in and play with the big boys right out of the gate, but take the advice that others have given and start with the following:

.22 LR Remington 597. Get the one with the synthetic stock and the scope Combo, (A 3-9x32 scope - good for 100yds.)
Upgrade to the Volquartsen hammer and extractor. (An absolute must.)
Add a Harris bipod. (9" to 13" with notches.)
Get some extra magazines. Rimfire rifles can use any capacity mags in Canada. There are 30 rounds mags for the 597.
Buy a case of .22LR ammo. (5000 rounds.)
Learn the fundamentals of shooting with this before going to .300WM or .308
Go get your RPAL


EDIT: Forgot to mention... total cost for the above, excluding the ammo but including four 30 round mags and everything else, taxes and shipping in should be less than $500.

A $500 system to learn to shoot is peanuts compared to the money you'll waste otherwise. If you want some more info on configuring a 597, post back or PM me.

[ricoboxing]

Post on canadiangunnutz.com if you're serious.

make sure you tell them the 36 year old virgin part.

please PM me a link to the post too

[frankeng2003]

Dude, if you are a 36 year old virgin. How about using the money and go to the massage parlor. Discharge the main vein. you know what i mean. I'm sure its loaded.

[jcoltage]

I think you should get this ... never know when you could use a flash light/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D99NHb6B03s

[Ebola]

Plinking around you could get just your garden variety .22

If you are just starting out , buying an old Lee-Enfield (with a newer barrel) one of the SMLE Mk. IV's for example is a great cheap choice for a starting rifle.

Uses a British .303 round.

[frankeng2003]

Out of curiosity, how accurate is a Lee Enfield SMLE? i know its miliary surplus. i imagine you can use if for hunting with the proper loads. How much is the currant price? back in the day, you could get them for $150 to 175 range 10 years ago.