Help me get my deposit back from a signed contract

[RLE 2K]

Hope some of you folks here can help me out. I recently signed a financing contract with a certain dealer. $1000 deposit was left and no co-signer. The dealer than asked for me to provide pay stubs and a co-signer. I couldn't and demanded my deposit back since the bank won't let me finance on my own. Heres the thing, I also gave them my dad's info as reference to see if I could finance the car with a co-signer. Now they are refusing to refund me the deposit. Saying, by giving them my dad's info on the phone, it "should" already be a consent by my dad and a new contract with his signature as the co-signer isn't required. The old contract stands and its up to me to provide them with pay stubs and a co-signer......

They are giving me all the walk around possible, any help will be greatly appreciated.

[AGR-1]

Did you sign a sales contract?

Did it mention conditional to financing approuval on the sales contract?

Why would you sign a finance contract? Its something most folks sign when they are taking delivery.

[TTony]

how did you pay ,cash?

[qwert97]

The contract that you sign is a bill of sale not financing. In Ontario there is no cooling off period on vehicle sales. It does not matter if the payment is made in cash or credit card since you have entered into a valid contract. Talk to the General Manager at the dealership and see if he will refund your deposit. Otherwise they have the right to repay themselves for liquidation damages. Generally that includes lost profit, admin etc. IN practice they generally forfeit the deposit. Since you paid a $1000 down you may be lucky if you get a couple of 100 bucks. The best way out of this is talk to them so that they refund the money to you.

[RLE 2K]

The sales contract however has only my name on it which the bank won't approved to let me finance without a co-signer. Theres no signature of a co-signer on the contract. So, I am obligated to provide a co-signer? I thought its the dealer's job to make sure that the bank approved first.

Paid the deposit by debit

[gordholio]

I lost $100 about 20 years ago on a deposit when I didn't follow through with the sale. Lesson learned. Don't commit before you are sure - and don't look around AFTER you have committed to buy with a deposit.
Always follow through on your commitments, but don't commit to buy until you are sure.

[TTony]

same thing happened to me, I found the same car cheaper somewhere else after the deposit , I told the guy I have anger management problem and I will be there Saturday to get my money back and told him I already talked with the bank they will charge back the money (debit)if you are not wiling to give back. finally they lowered the price -$1500

[RLE 2K]

This is not about me wanting a discount or having found a better deal somewhere else. This is about me signing the sales contract as a sole purchaser but now they require me to provide them with a co-signer.....

[Justin]

This is not about me wanting a discount or having found a better deal somewhere else. This is about me signing the sales contract as a sole purchaser but now they require me to provide them with a co-signer.....


You should get it all back. They are the ones that will no longer let the sale progress since they now require a co-signer. They are backing out of the original agreement, not you.

[ES_Revenge]

Good luck getting your deposit back. In Ontario it's very difficult as the laws in this province are designed heavily for businesses to take advantage of regular people.

This is why it's not a good idea to give anyone a significant deposit, ever, for anything, unless everything is a sure thing (like financing for example).

Deposits are just a way for crooks to make easy money IMO, those crooks being car dealers as pretty much all of them "require" deposits. Once they have it, you'll have to pry it from their cold dead hands before they give it back. :(

[Pete_Coach]

This is not about me wanting a discount or having found a better deal somewhere else. This is about me signing the sales contract as a sole purchaser but now they require me to provide them with a co-signer.....

You have learned a valuable lesson. You will, in the future, have yourself organized and with assurances that you can get financing. You will lose your deposit unless they are real nice and that means they are doing this out of goodwill, they do not have to.


You should get it all back. They are the ones that will no longer let the sale progress since they now require a co-signer. They are backing out of the original agreement, not you.

Are you reading the same post? The OP cannot get financing, co-signer or not, it has nothing to do the dealer. A co-signer is the one who will be obligated to pay if you default, therefore the co-signer must also be able to attain financing (or at least have enough collateral to cover the purchase price).

OP, with your thousand down, can you strike a lease deal? That may be a way out of your predicament and still get the car. Some places are more apt to forgo all the requirement on a lease as they company will still really own the car (along with you). At the end of lease, buy it out or give it back.

[VivienM]

You have learned a valuable lesson. You will, in the future, have yourself organized and with assurances that you can get financing. You will lose your deposit unless they are real nice and that means they are doing this out of goodwill, they do not have to.

What surprises me is that this contract is seemingly not subject to financing approval based on the information given to them.

It seems odd to me that they'd enter into a contract on certain terms, then say "oh, you HAVE to get a co-signer or else we keep your deposit".

[CheapScotsman]

What surprises me is that this contract is seemingly not subject to financing approval based on the information given to them.

It seems odd to me that they'd enter into a contract on certain terms, then say "oh, you HAVE to get a co-signer or else we keep your deposit".yep, it is interesting that the OP didn't get a signed purchase agreement subject to financing, but, funnier things have happened.

I think the OP hasn't fulled tied the story together ... it apperas he bought the car, signed a purchase agreement (with no financing subjects) then found out get can't get financing ....

so the dealership is telling him to either get a co-signer (who can get financing and/or pay for it) OR he will loose his deposit (and the OP walks from the deal).

[thephenom]

yep, it is interesting that the OP didn't get a signed purchase agreement subject to financing, but, funnier things have happened.

I think the OP hasn't fulled tied the story together ... it apperas he bought the car, signed a purchase agreement (with no financing subjects) then found out get can't get financing ....

so the dealership is telling him to either get a co-signer (who can get financing and/or pay for it) OR he will loose his deposit (and the OP walks from the deal).
Sounds about right since he said the "bank" won't approval his finance.

[RLE 2K]

On the lower left corner of the contract, theres the Financing Terms box. One of the line is - Total to be financed (Subject to Lender's Approval). When I said the bank didn't approved, it was the dealer's bank. The dealer has a 0% finance car for sale, I thought I could take advantage of this great deal and signed the contract and left the deposit.

[VivienM]

On the lower left corner of the contract, theres the Financing Terms box. One of the line is - Total to be financed (Subject to Lender's Approval). When I said the bank didn't approved, it was the dealer's bank. The dealer has a 0% finance car for sale, I thought I could take advantage of this great deal and signed the contract and left the deposit.

Then if they don't approve you... it should be their problem?

[smokie1]

http://www.wheels.ca/printArticle/226917.
The same happened to my room mate a few years back and we got the deposit back.

Steps:
Send them a letter copying any car manufacturers they are affiliated with e.g. if they carry new GM cars - copy GM, and also copy the better business bureau highlighting the facts and demanding a refund.

File a claim in small claims court (cost approx $70 they have to show liquidating damages to keep your deposit.



When you have the small claims documents- serve it in person -chances are you'll get your refund on the spot- they'll brand you nuts and a trouble maker - but you'll get your money back as its simply not worth their time and trouble.

Good luck

[thephenom]

On the lower left corner of the contract, theres the Financing Terms box. One of the line is - Total to be financed (Subject to Lender's Approval). When I said the bank didn't approved, it was the dealer's bank. The dealer has a 0% finance car for sale, I thought I could take advantage of this great deal and signed the contract and left the deposit.

Just wondering, why can't you ask your dad to cosign the car with you?

[kev604]

Just wondering, why can't you ask your dad to cosign the car with you?

This is what I was thinking as well. Sounds like OP wants the car. Is your dad not willing to cosign for you? Maybe he disagrees with you blowing your cash on a car and doesn't want to cosign for you??

[grant]

Good luck getting your deposit back. In Ontario it's very difficult as the laws in this province are designed heavily for businesses to take advantage of regular people.

This is why it's not a good idea to give anyone a significant deposit, ever, for anything, unless everything is a sure thing (like financing for example).

Deposits are just a way for crooks to make easy money IMO, those crooks being car dealers as pretty much all of them "require" deposits. Once they have it, you'll have to pry it from their cold dead hands before they give it back. :(
Ya those stupid laws are skewed in favour of people who actually honour their contracts. How ridiculous!

I can't wait for the laws to change so people like you can back out of their agreements. That's what HONEST people do right?

[l69norm]

This is what I was thinking as well. Sounds like OP wants the car. ...

+1, it sounds like the dealer is trying to get the OP the 0% financing. I'm sure the dealer can get the OP other bank financing without having your dad co-sign, but the interest rate will be higher and monthly payment will be a lot more. If the dealer offers the OP this, make sure you get a credit instead (i.e. for not using 0% financing).

[RLE 2K]

My dad doesn't want to co-sign and the only reason I was interested in this car was the 0% financing... If the interest was high, I can get a much nicer car. This particular dealer, by no means is trying to help me. Pretty much just wanted to screw me out of the $1000 deposit. Talked with the sales guy, business manager, new car manager and the GM as well. All of them gave me the walk around. First one told me, "this contract isn't even good, you better prepare a lawyer, this has nothing to do with me, go take it up with the sales person". Next told me when I started to make a scene..."don't worry, you gonna get your money back" and ended being, " well, I talked with the sales team and I forward it to the GM". GM was like,"you don't sound too excited for someone that wants a new car, I won't be able to help you, they will get back to you on this subject". Well, no sh&* if I don't sound optimistic/excited about getting a car, especially with this dealer. I guess I'll go through the whole small clam court/BBB thing. If I don't get the deposit back, I'll post this on more car forums with the dealer's name and hopefully they'll lose more than just $1000.I just don't want to go down the same route as them and making myself go so low.....

Thank you all for the help and advice, lesson learned.

[ES_Revenge]

Ya those stupid laws are skewed in favour of people who actually honour their contracts. How ridiculous!
:rolleyes: You don't even live in ON dude, so perhaps you should get a clue about laws here (not just ones regarding deposits and vehicle purchases).


I can't wait for the laws to change so people like you can back out of their agreements. That's what HONEST people do right?
WTF??? People like me? When did I say I was backing out of any agreements? :confused: Also nice job implying that I'm somehow not honest. :rolleyes:

Anyway, since that came out of nowhere I'll just tell you to "get a life" and ignore such nonsense in the future. ;)

[grant]

:rolleyes: You don't even live in ON dude, so perhaps you should get a clue about laws here (not just ones regarding deposits and vehicle purchases).
So you were talking about laws that are completely unrelated to the topic at hand? hmm ok so if you're going to write a random complaint that's ok but people aren't mindreaders so if you want me to "get a clue" it helps to warn that your comment has nothing to do with previous posts.


WTF??? People like me?
yes i thought you had the attitude that "i shouldn't be bound by contracts to businesses if i find them inconvenient".

Now you claim you weren't talking about vehicles, deposits, or contracts... i'm sorry if it was an incorrect assumption, but it was an honest mistake ... how can anyone know you were complaining about something totally unrelated to what everyone else was discussing?

RLE 2K, good for you being so philosophical about this. Good luck, i hope you do get your $$ back.

[ES_Revenge]

So you were talking about laws that are completely unrelated to the topic at hand? hmm ok so if you're going to write a random complaint that's ok but people aren't mindreaders so if you want me to "get a clue" it helps to warn that your comment has nothing to do with previous posts.
Not what I was saying. Laws in Ontario are generally geared towards screwing common people. Instead of "consumer protection" laws we essentially have "consumer exploitation" laws. If you understood the way laws here worked, you would understand what I'm talking about.

Do you know what OMVIC is? It's a supposed motor vehicle council where all the top members are owners of car dealerships. The LCBO? Bar owners and alcohol sellers. Real great regulatory boards we have here eh?

You know all those nice warranty rules you guys have in BC? Well in ON you'd be lucky if there isn't a law that says the manufacturer should kick you in the face should you ask for anything more than planned obsolesence.

I was most certainly talking about vehicles and deposits but you clearly don't get the manner of which I'm talking about them. Deposits on vehicles are a total scam game, period. There's no cooling off period, and there's certainly no reason for them. If you want to buy a car then buy the car, why the need to place a deposit on it? The only reason is so that you can give them money and something can possibly go wrong and then they keep your money. The end.

I've said this before in other threads on the same topic. Anything you give as a "deposit" :cough: donation :cough: you should be prepared to lose. If you aren't prepared to lose $1000+, then don't give a deposit. If they won't let you buy the car without a deposit first, go elsewhere. If you're going to buy the car then buy the car; if you're not, don't give them any money. Whether you're waiting for financing or waiting for something else, it doesn't matter. Deposits are simply a bad idea. They benefit no one except the dealer who keeps it in the event anything goes wrong. Even when they are at fault, getting it back from them can be like squeezing sweat from stone.

If they tell you they can't secure financing without you leaving a deposit just tell them f&*$ you and walk out because exactly what happened to the OP can happen to you. In other words they are saying "hey you have to give us $1000 for us to check whether you can even buy this car; if you can't we keep your $1000." :rolleyes: Real good contract there :rolleyes:


yes i thought you had the attitude that "i shouldn't be bound by contracts to businesses if i find them inconvenient".
No I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't be bound by contracts that are totally unfair, unncessary, one-sided, and totally pointless. Yet they continue to be the norm/accepted way for dealers to do business and no one does anything about it. God forbid the province should step in and say "hey no more of this scam operation" right? :rolleyes:

Why not read every single thread right here about deposits and see how many of them have to do with a happy "got my deposit back" story? I'm sure you'll find several threads about deposits with all of them talking about how a dealer is retaining a deposit when something goes wrong.

[aphextwin2050]

Well said dude... I was in the same situation this weekend. The car salesman wanted me to put a deposit on the car and I said yeah right buddy. One thing I've learned is never ever do a deposit for anything. Especially for a car. If you absolutely must, put a condition that allows an easy way out for you. It takes 2 to sign a contract. No one forced you, unless you were walking down the street innocently, a bunch of men in a Honda Shuttle Service van, jumped out, put a mask over your head. Threw you into the dealership... as you tried to run away, you stumble... your hands flailing,
grabbing a pen to get your balance, as you continued falling, a sales contract flew out of nowhere, you tried to slash the contract with your pen, but to no avail, the slashing somehow resembled your signature. Then all you saw was a scurry little man run off in the background laughing, "thanks for the credit check mofo!!".


You won't believe how many times a car salesman told me..this is the best price bro, this is what me or my family would pay to pressure me to put in deposit. The same sales guy lowered it 3 times this weekend saying that...when I put 3 dealerships head to head for price.

Chalk it up to experience dude. I do hope you get your money back otherwise, it was a lesson learned, move on. Being bitter just eats away at you. You think that's bad, try losing your deposit of $75,000.

On the flip side, it's not easy being a car salesman.
1. You work strictly on commission so if you don't sell you don't get paid.
2. You're suppose to give the lowest price so you can get the best value for the customer. "save me money b*tch!"
3. You're suppose to get the highest price possible so you can feed your kids steak instead of mac'n'cheese, your wife says "where's mah diapers and baby food b*tch!"
4. You have a sales manager breathing down your neck "make a sale you b*tch!"

It's a choice thing that's true but for some this is the best opportunity they have to make a decent living for their family.

So when they try lieing to you..remember..that sales guy could be someone's dad, uncle or brother..haha.



Not what I was saying. Laws in Ontario are generally geared towards screwing common people. Instead of "consumer protection" laws we essentially have "consumer exploitation" laws. If you understood the way laws here worked, you would understand what I'm talking about.

Do you know what OMVIC is? It's a supposed motor vehicle council where all the top members are owners of car dealerships. The LCBO? Bar owners and alcohol sellers. Real great regulatory boards we have here eh?

You know all those nice warranty rules you guys have in BC? Well in ON you'd be lucky if there isn't a law that says the manufacturer should kick you in the face should you ask for anything more than planned obsolesence.

I was most certainly talking about vehicles and deposits but you clearly don't get the manner of which I'm talking about them. Deposits on vehicles are a total scam game, period. There's no cooling off period, and there's certainly no reason for them. If you want to buy a car then buy the car, why the need to place a deposit on it? The only reason is so that you can give them money and something can possibly go wrong and then they keep your money. The end.

I've said this before in other threads on the same topic. Anything you give as a "deposit" :cough: donation :cough: you should be prepared to lose. If you aren't prepared to lose $1000+, then don't give a deposit. If they won't let you buy the car without a deposit first, go elsewhere. If you're going to buy the car then buy the car; if you're not, don't give them any money. Whether you're waiting for financing or waiting for something else, it doesn't matter. Deposits are simply a bad idea. They benefit no one except the dealer who keeps it in the event anything goes wrong. Even when they are at fault, getting it back from them can be like squeezing sweat from stone.

If they tell you they can't secure financing without you leaving a deposit just tell them f&*$ you and walk out because exactly what happened to the OP can happen to you. In other words they are saying "hey you have to give us $1000 for us to check whether you can even buy this car; if you can't we keep your $1000." :rolleyes: Real good contract there :rolleyes:


No I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't be bound by contracts that are totally unfair, unncessary, one-sided, and totally pointless. Yet they continue to be the norm/accepted way for dealers to do business and no one does anything about it. God forbid the province should step in and say "hey no more of this scam operation" right? :rolleyes:

Why not read every single thread right here about deposits and see how many of them have to do with a happy "got my deposit back" story? I'm sure you'll find several threads about deposits with all of them talking about how a dealer is retaining a deposit when something goes wrong.

[Jeff-TheBiz]

Okay, I have watched this thread get out of hand, and thought I might throw my prespective into the mix.

A deposit is refundable under 2 conditions.

1) The exact vehicle on the bill of sale cannot be provided within the agreed time frame. If no time frame is indicated on the bill of sale the default time frame is 90 days (most likely printed in the terms & conditions on the back of the bill of sale)

2) The approval cannot be obtained as exactly stated on the bill of sale. (ie if the bank wants $2000 down for the approval and it isn't on the bill of sale.) you should be able to walk away with your deposit. (I say walk, because you will still have no car)

If you have any questions about these, contact OMVIC (http://www.omvic.on.ca/omvic/contact_us/contact_us.htm).

Those are the only 2 conditions that a deposit should be easily refunded. I have refunded a deposit for much simpler reasons; client recently lost their job and felt they couldn't continue with the transaction etc..

If a dealer is really pushing you to finish the transaction, perhaps you really were paying more than you should have been.

As for trying to buy a car without giving a deposit, I wish you luck with your transactions. Some dealerships will take a deal without on, but it is very rare.

If you don't feel comfortable leaving a $500 deposit with someone towards the purchase of a $20000+ car, perhaps you aren't buying at the wrong place.

To the OP, do you no longer want the car? or is your Father just not willing to co-sign? Not sure if I missed this.

[grant]

Thanks for your input Jeff.

Deposits serve a very legitimate purpose for all sorts of business transactions. Most importantly they ensure a buyer is serious about the purchase, and they also provide reimbursement for damages if the buyer does NOT complete.

No one holds a gun to customer's heads to make them provide deposits. Maybe it's a bad choice but it's still their CHOICE.

Calling businesses that accept deposits "CROOKED" is offensive to the thousands of businesses that are just trying to protect themselves from the very real dangers of fickle customers.

A customer who is "ready, willing, and able" to complete a purchase will lose nothing by giving a deposit. Someone who is NOT ready, willing, and able should NOT be signing contracts.

[AGR-1]

All valid points...

Many dealers will not give a price or discuss actual figures without a prospective customer taking out a credit card, and often the credit card tends to dissapear on the desk of the floor manager.

There is a fine line between having agreed on amounts, writing up a sales contract and asking for the required deposit, and demanding a credit card before numbers are even discussed.

Once you are asked for a credit card to even start negotiating it becomes a very unpleasant experience, especially when you catch on that they are purposely hanging on to your credit card to see if they can do a deal.

Its similar to the old ploy of having a car appraised and the keys are suddenly temporarily misplaced.

When should a customer give a deposit? When the dealer is ready to write a sales contract with the final negotiated amounts, and the correct discussions regarding the financing or leasing of the vehicle are finalised and completed.

Should a customer give a deposit with a debit card?....Never, use a credit card or a check.

[Pete_Coach]

Not what I was saying. Laws in Ontario are generally geared towards screwing common people. Instead of "consumer protection" laws we essentially have "consumer exploitation" laws. If you understood the way laws here worked, you would understand what I'm talking about.

Do you know what OMVIC is? It's a supposed motor vehicle council where all the top members are owners of car dealerships. The LCBO? Bar owners and alcohol sellers. Real great regulatory boards we have here eh?.......

You know all those nice warranty rules you guys have in BC? .............


No I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't be bound by contracts that are totally unfair, unncessary, one-sided, and totally pointless.........

Where on earth do you get your info? Or your bitter pills?
As a matter of fact, the laws of Ontario often lead the Country and most Provinces follow (I am not a native Ontarian)and the consumer protection in Ontario is very good. The only thing is that you can not pass a law against stupidity or ignorance and as we all know"consumer beware".
The Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council is in fact Industry people that enforces the Motor Vehicle Dealers Act. Is it the Act that you have problems with?
LCBO owned by bar owners and alcohol sellers? LCBO is a Crown Corporation. Don't be making things up and passing them off as informed facts.
"all those nice warranty rules you guys have in BC" what? Same as you in Ontario.



Okay, I have watched this thread get out of hand, and thought I might throw my prespective into the mix.

A deposit is refundable under 2 conditions.

1) The exact vehicle on the bill of sale cannot be provided within the agreed time frame. If no time frame is indicated on the bill of sale the default time frame is 90 days (most likely printed in the terms & conditions on the back of the bill of sale)

2) The approval cannot be obtained as exactly stated on the bill of sale. (ie if the bank wants $2000 down for the approval and it isn't on the bill of sale.) you should be able to walk away with your deposit. (I say walk, because you will still have no car)

If you have any questions about these, contact OMVIC (http://www.omvic.on.ca/omvic/contact_us/contact_us.htm).

Those are the only 2 conditions that a deposit should be easily refunded. I have refunded a deposit for much simpler reasons; client recently lost their job and felt they couldn't continue with the transaction etc..

If a dealer is really pushing you to finish the transaction, perhaps you really were paying more than you should have been.

As for trying to buy a car without giving a deposit, I wish you luck with your transactions. Some dealerships will take a deal without on, but it is very rare.

If you don't feel comfortable leaving a $500 deposit with someone towards the purchase of a $20000+ car, perhaps you aren't buying at the wrong place.

To the OP, do you no longer want the car? or is your Father just not willing to co-sign? Not sure if I missed this.

Good answer Jeff, factual, backed up and, most importantly without opinion and malice towards posters or anyone else.

[BigRedMonster]

All car purchases should be pending finance approval. In this situation, did they get your signature or your father's signature on the credit application? If they did not get your dad's signature, they have no right to pull a credit bureau on him. Confirm with the dealer if this is the case. If they have or the lender has, then this is a serious privacy issue. Push that on them, and they may back down.
Ensure that you tell them you were only interested in purchasing the vehicle at the finance rates they advertised. If they are unable to get you approved for those rates, then it is their problem. You have every right to get your deposit back, as they were not able to fulfill the bargain you signed up for.

[Sepiraph]

Don't agree to a deposit, I recently leased a new car and at no point was a deposit mentioned. You can always make a small down payment instead of a deposit.

[AGR-1]

To the OP is there an update?