Alternative energy setup for a suburban home

[cuto]

i'm looking into using alternative energy to minimize the electricity we're using in my house. we do live in a suburban neighbourhood with decent amount of sunlight and i believe there's enough wind in the area. i was looking into using a bit of solar power and definitely a windmill generator. correct me if i'm wrong, i believe the windmill can generate more electricity than solar for cheaper?!

anyhow, i see there is a lot of info and places that sell the solar panels and windmill generators. not so much services that help install these setups. is the reason they are super easy to setup?!

[mjl_toronto]

Not sure how much you're looking to invest but geothermal energy could also be an option for you. It's very expensive but combined with solar and wind, you can very likely take your home off 'the grid'. Definitely wouldn't recommend it as a money saving alternative but as a green alternative, something worth considering.

[3weddings]

We are considering Geothermal for our new home. I think for resale in 6-10 years or so, it may become a great selling point for us!

[cuto]

Not sure how much you're looking to invest but geothermal energy could also be an option for you. It's very expensive but combined with solar and wind, you can very likely take your home off 'the grid'. Definitely wouldn't recommend it as a money saving alternative but as a green alternative, something worth considering.lol sounds expensive. maybe when gov't tax credits increase or the technology becomes cheaper. maybe i'll consider it for our next house. i guess we're looking at an alternative that doesn't put a hole through our wallet but will help out a bit by going green (i.e. minimize energy cost).

i think the first place to hit is the water heating which can be solved by solar water heating?! what about cooling?

[MacGyver]

Since you are in Ottawa, you should get in contact with Ottawa Solar Power (http://www.ottawasolarpower.com). They specialize in doing complete alternative power setups. Michael McGahern is the guru, I have heard him speak and bounced ideas off him; he really knows his stuff. Article: http://www.househunting.ca/eco/story.html?id=5e36c7d5-d240-4bbc-a035-3cef9bcb1d7f

Besides the actual power generating device, whether that be solar or wind, you need battery banks and power inverters to turn the generated DC power into AC power that you can use. You also need to take precautions to prevent your system from feeding power into the grid during a blackout (you could electrocute a hydro worker who thinks he's working on dead wires)

Even with the Ontario Gov't paying 43 cents per kilowatt-hour that you generate and put back into the grid, you can expect a payback period of at least 15 years, maybe 20.

Where solar power really shines is for pool heating which offers a rapid payback, or remote installations like cottages where it can cost $100k for hydro to bring a service in.

[Bullseye]

Wind will not be an option for a suburban home, you need a tower, and there are restrictions on them. Panels would be fine, but they are very expensive still. Solar water pre-heating is your best, most cost effective option, really.

Besides that last one, your best bet is radical reduction of energy usage first, then a solar PV system that just offsets some of your usage. You can build on it as time goes on.

Geothermal is great, but for most suburbanites, it would mean drilling down vertically, which is expensive. For those with land, or even better, a pond, a horizontal loop system is quite economically efficient.

[cuto]

Wind will not be an option for a suburban home, you need a tower, and there are restrictions on them. Panels would be fine, but they are very expensive still. Solar water pre-heating is your best, most cost effective option, really.

Besides that last one, your best bet is radical reduction of energy usage first, then a solar PV system that just offsets some of your usage. You can build on it as time goes on.

Geothermal is great, but for most suburbanites, it would mean drilling down vertically, which is expensive. For those with land, or even better, a pond, a horizontal loop system is quite economically efficient.ooh my friends in TO have a big, super duper big pond in their backyard. what's this horizontal loop thing?!

anyhow, thanks for the info guys. i guess solar pv panels and the whole setup are quite expensive for us for the time being. i suppose with time, these panels will drop in price by a lot.

i read an article that it is pretty easy to buy a smaller panel that can power up a laptop. do you guys know of any good brand to buy that will be able to do that? according to the msn.ca article i read, it would cost roughly $80 for that panel?!

[Dynomite2910]

I've looked into this before and from what I can tell it just doesn't make sense on an individual house level to be investing in solar (or wind) as an energy source unless you are doing it to feel good about pitching in for the environment.

The price of electricity is subsidized so much in this province that your payback period up to 20 yrs for any system.

As pointed out above the two urban uses that seem to make sense this days are pool water heater (see Costco Pool Heating System (http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10299552&search=pool&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Mo=41&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-CA&Nr=P_CatalogName:BCCA&Sp=S&N=0&whse=BCCA&ViewAll=42&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BCCA&Ne=4000000&D=pool&Ntt=pool&No=19&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1)) and domestic hot water heating. Even the domestic hot water systems have a very long pay back period.

I even looked at installing panels at my cottage (in Quebec) and doing a grid tie in system so you don't have to deal with batteries,etc. But the problem is that even for our 2 side-by-side cottages that are heated with electricity for parts of the winter our total electricity bill is only ~$900/year so that is the maximum payback we could get per year from a tie-in system (and we wouldn't) so again you are looking at least 10+ years to payback your investment.


I was just reading an article the other day (can't remember where) about a farmer who is putting in a huge solar installation in instead of crops but the only reason he's doing it is because the gov't has GUARANTEED to pay him a ridiculous rate for the next 20YRS !!! Great to get more green generation on the go but who do you think is subsidizing that ridiculous rate? (found a interest article on Ontario's Standard Offer Program - see The Ontario Example (http://www.altenergystocks.com/archives/2008/06/solar_investing_where_politics_finance_come_togeth er.html) )

Just make people pay the true cost of generating power rather than screwing around with rates and everything will take care of itself. It is called supply and demand.

[OldFortYork]

Another option to Geothermal (not as efficient though) are advanced air source heat pumps:

http://www.gotohallowell.com/acadia.html

[Bullseye]

ooh my friends in TO have a big, super duper big pond in their backyard. what's this horizontal loop thing?!

It's a closed loop of piping that sucks the warm or cool energy out of the ground, or water in the case of a pond, and uses it to warm or cool the home.

A pond is the best set up, if you can do it, because it's the cheapest to install. Much of the cost of geothermal is digging to lay the loop in the ground, but with a pond, you can just lay it at the bottom! The pond has to be a certain size and depth, of course, but if usable, it makes geothermal very economical.

[mymeowcat]

I was looking into solar for the last few years fantasizinf that I can off the grid but here are a few findings from Alberta:

1) In Calgary -- 1 Gigajoule is worth 10 cents. If I were to run 1 desktop computer 24 hrs per day it'll cost $7.00. A solar panel (considering cost) will get me $3 cents per gigajoule. Basically (per solar panel) -- I get less energy per dollar than what the electric company delivers.

2) Note that some people mentioned that a solar electricity has something lke a 20 year beak-even point. I found some stuff that says a solar panel's output decreases as it ages! I found some literature that says an expected life of a solar panel is about 25 years -- so not only does solar panel's performance decreases per year but once you break even the panel is about dead!:evil:

3) One idea I had was that solar panels recharge a battery which ties into an inverter to convert DC to AC -- if solar was inefficient then why not tie in a bicycle (ie human powered) supplement to it:idea: I'm not sure how accurate those treadmill and cross-trainer things are at the gym but it according to what they (and my body) tell me -- it takes a lot just to generate 100 watts!

[st7860]

how about instead calculate the cost of the difference between buying power the way you do now and the cost of a solar system, and instead, keep buying power, and invest the difference in tons of carbon offsets.

[cuto]

ya but doesn't buying carbon offsets seem like such a money making scheme?! maybe i'm not understanding the concept of buying carbon offsets. from what i gather, a person would continue to use energy but fork over money to some random company that specializes in renewable energy. this renewable energy company gets more money to produce more products that will most likely not benefit the person who bought the carbon offset directly.

[st7860]

ya but doesn't buying carbon offsets seem like such a money making scheme?! maybe i'm not understanding the concept of buying carbon offsets. from what i gather, a person would continue to use energy but fork over money to some random company that specializes in renewable energy. this renewable energy company gets more money to produce more products that will most likely not benefit the person who bought the carbon offset directly.

You're right. lots of people think offsets are sort of a scam. I just mean that solar systems while they look cool, wont do that much. lets say you spend $20,000 on a medium sized system. unless you spent another X grand on _lots_ of batteries, you will still need to buy grid power at night.

and so, how about instead (for example) just put $10,000 towards offsets and/or the david suzuki foundation or something like that.

[cuto]

You're right. lots of people think offsets are sort of a scam. I just mean that solar systems while they look cool, wont do that much. lets say you spend $20,000 on a medium sized system. unless you spent another X grand on _lots_ of batteries, you will still need to buy grid power at night.

and so, how about instead (for example) just put $10,000 towards offsets and/or the david suzuki foundation or something like that.ya makes sense i suppose. i'd only support carbon offsets that's ran by that david suzuki foundation but not some other one if there are them. hehe