Female dog Question

[Spidey]

3 weeks ago we became the owner of a female golden lab/german sheppard cross (i think)

Was free from my home town and an unexpected surprise from my brother. I was ok with it since Ive been meaning to get a dog since we moved out to an acreage.

Now I havent owned a dog for 20 years, basically because I didnt want to have a dog living in the city (personal choice)

Now this dog doesnt have any shot, but thats one of my questions

1. Shots. What shots does it need, we never got shots for our dogs when growing up and they were all fine. My brother has dogs too, none of his has shots, no problems. Whats the cost, what are they for, etc

2. Spaying/neuturing - when and the cost. She is about 3 months old so how old should she be. I dont to worry about puppies and then giving them away.

I think thats about it though. Any help would be appreciated

[dhamilton]

All of these questions (and more!) can be answered with a quick 2 minute phone call to your local vet.

[Spidey]

All of these questions (and more!) can be answered with a quick 2 minute phone call to your local vet.

Id rather get it from here. Ive heard good and bad things about certian vets. Oh they need this and this and this, jjst to get some extra money today.

One told me today she needs shots in case she gets breast cancer??

[elnady]

Hello,

Here is the answer your questions:

1- Shots. The usual rabbis shot. The vet will tell you it should be once a year.. to be honest mine get his once ever two years. Also if you live up north there is a shot (sorry I can’t remember the right name) for some illness that transmit though raccoon and deer pee in a pool of water (which the dogs might drink out of), we give this shot to our dog camping all the time and this is really big up north (not in the city). The vet might try to sale you on kennel cough but really it’s not necessarily.
2- Spaying at that age (3 to 6 month) is the best. Cost about $200. Not sure if you know this or not but the female dog will get a “period” if they are not spayed.

A do recommend a book called “the Monks of new skate” one of the best books out there. And remember socialize… socialize… socialize very important for the dog. Also puppies can’t hold them self for long. After ever meal or drink take them out to do there business, you can calculate how many hours a pup can hold themselves by age (in month) +1, so your puppy can hold herself (3+1)=4 hours.

Good luck

[Spidey]

Hello,

Here is the answer your questions:

1- Shots. The usual rabbis shot. The vet will tell you it should be once a year.. to be honest mine get his once ever two years. Also if you live up north there is a shot (sorry I can’t remember the right name) for some illness that transmit though raccoon and deer pee in a pool of water (which the dogs might drink out of), we give this shot to our dog camping all the time and this is really big up north (not in the city). The vet might try to sale you on kennel cough but really it’s not necessarily.
2- Spaying at that age (3 to 6 month) is the best. Cost about $200. Not sure if you know this or not but the female dog will get a “period” if they are not spayed.

A do recommend a book called “the Monks of new skate” one of the best books out there. And remember socialize… socialize… socialize very important for the dog. Also puppies can’t hold them self for long. After ever meal or drink take them out to do there business, you can calculate how many hours a pup can hold themselves by age (in month) +1, so your puppy can hold herself (3+1)=4 hours.

Good luck


Thanks for the spaying answer. Some places quoted us $400 and I said thats to much.

When we called about shots they said a bunch of different shots and different ages, etc. All $50 a pop, so all said and done another $400.

I want to take care of my dog, but Im not giving them shots for everything that they can get. Rabies for sure, but like I said we had dogs for years and nothing ever happened to them because they didnt get shots

We are sociallzing with her like crazy. with 3 kids she is kept busy and will be an inside dog until spring, but after that she will be weaned from the house to be a 100% outside dog

Shes getting better at training, she now goes to the door for the most part

[IronMac]

One told me today she needs shots in case she gets breast cancer??

You must have heard wrong. Spaying does help to prevent a female dog from developing breast cancer:

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1638&aid=460

[IronMac]

Thanks for the spaying answer. Some places quoted us $400 and I said thats to much.


And from whence do you get this idea that it's too much? I just read about someone here in Toronto who was quoted a price of almost $600.

Some of the cost may depend on the size of the animal.

[elnady]

IronMac.. you are right about this point.

Spidey,,, I'm not sure of Alberta but here in the GTA you REALLY have to shop around with vets... some of them will offer a shot for $50 and others will charge you $100.

Go with the Rabies.. once every two years is more than enough. Forget about all other fancy shots they are trying to sale you.

BTW for kennel cough (my dog pretty much gets it once every sping) give the dog the solid honey (they sale them in any supermarket) it works magic. the shots worth $hit and it doesn't work.

sociallzing with Kids are wonderful, my daughter (15month) ride my dog now and he is cool with it. on the other hand sociallzing with other dogs is very important.

I hate to say that but be careful with Vets they will try to use the guilt factor to sale you load of crap, including the "special food".

[Spidey]

And from whence do you get this idea that it's too much? I just read about someone here in Toronto who was quoted a price of almost $600.

Some of the cost may depend on the size of the animal.

Whence :lol: I myself said thats to much. I found a vet in a smaller town that actually understand "farm" dogs and they quoted $190, and said she wont need many of the shots that dogs get because she wont be at dog parks, in kennels, etc,

Funny thing is all of our dogs lived to be very old, and never had these series of shots that are claimed to be needed today

[elnady]

And from whence do you get this idea that it's too much? I just read about someone here in Toronto who was quoted a price of almost $600.

Some of the cost may depend on the size of the animal.

I know,,, my dog x-Vet kept pushing us to fix our dog (he is not fix nor I wanted to fix him) and when my wife asked how much he said my dog is over 1 year old (he is 5 now) and the vet wanted $900! I can get a vasectomy for less the $900! (not that this will ever happen)

[Spidey]

IronMac.. you are right about this point.

Spidey,,, I'm not sure of Alberta but here in the GTA you REALLY have to shop around with vets... some of them will offer a shot for $50 and others will charge you $100.

Go with the Rabies.. once every two years is more than enough. Forget about all other fancy shots they are trying to sale you.

BTW for kennel cough (my dog pretty much gets it once every sping) give the dog the solid honey (they sale them in any supermarket) it works magic. the shots worth $hit and it doesn't work.

sociallzing with Kids are wonderful, my daughter (15month) ride my dog now and he is cool with it. on the other hand sociallzing with other dogs is very important.

I hate to say that but be careful with Vets they will try to use the guilt factor to sale you load of crap, including the "special food".

There arent a ton of vets, but some of them the prices vary so much its scary.

Im thinking rabies and distemper, the rest Im not getting done. One place said oh shes already missed her one set of shots, so she wont need them now. So why did she need them in the first place.

As it is shes got a great life compared to living under a shed behind an autobody shop.

She does socialize with other dogs when we go for walks. The neighbours have dogs and come around and play when we walk. They are both labs so the do lots of running

In theory I dont have to get her fixed, I could easily give the puppies away. if people are paying for dogs, I could easily give away golden lab puppies. But I dont want to add to the already over burdened pet population

[IronMac]

Whence :lol: I myself said thats to much. I found a vet in a smaller town that actually understand "farm" dogs and they quoted $190, and said she wont need many of the shots that dogs get because she wont be at dog parks, in kennels, etc,

Funny thing is all of our dogs lived to be very old, and never had these series of shots that are claimed to be needed today

A dog is a dog. The procedure is the same whether or not it's going to living outside in your yard or in an apartment in the city. But don't get the idea that the price will be the same, as I said, it depends on a variety of factors such as age, size and weight of the animal.

And, yeah, in the old days, they'd simply be put down or shot if there was a problem.

[Spidey]

A dog is a dog. The procedure is the same whether or not it's going to living outside in your yard or in an apartment in the city. But don't get the idea that the price will be the same, as I said, it depends on a variety of factors such as age, size and weight of the animal.

And, yeah, in the old days, they'd simply be put down or shot if there was a problem.

in the old days, dogs were still taken care of. But there were no such things as operations for cancer or spending hundreds of dollars each month on medication if they had issues. Just didnt happen on the farm.

of course on the farm dogs were work dogs as well.

[ricoboxing]

i paid something like $200 to get my dog spayed. that was over 8 years ago though. actually i think it was $180. shop around.

[CSK'sMom]

Lepto is the shot that elnady is talking about. Think seriously about adding it Spidey, it's on the rise and being in the country you might be more prone to it. Coons carry it and can infect bodies of water with it, the dogs get infected from swimming or drinking the infected water. We did both of ours, even now in the city, for it because we have coons that come into the yard from time to time and we have a pond and stream.

Spidey, ask around if you have a large animal vet in the area. Most will have limited office hrs and will do farm dogs. When we were on the farm our large animal vet sold me the vaccines to do the dogs myself. They also "get it". ;)

[Skip2MyLou]

lmao, i thought this was gonna be something funny.
like "*****" question.
totally misled

[brunes]

I know,,, my dog x-Vet kept pushing us to fix our dog (he is not fix nor I wanted to fix him) and when my wife asked how much he said my dog is over 1 year old (he is 5 now) and the vet wanted $900! I can get a vasectomy for less the $900! (not that this will ever happen)

Don't want to hijack the thread - but just in case people did not know, if you adopt a puppy or kitten from the SPCA, they will spay / neuter the dog for no charge. They usually also come with their first shots. Also you know you are helping a loving animal get a good start on a life that might otherwise have been rough.

Always makes me so sad to see puppys and kittens in pet stores, knowing some poor sap wastes their money buying them, and just encourages the horrible industry to proliferate.

[watching]

3 weeks ago we became the owner of a female golden lab/german sheppard cross (i think)

Was free from my home town and an unexpected surprise from my brother. I was ok with it since Ive been meaning to get a dog since we moved out to an acreage.

Now I havent owned a dog for 20 years, basically because I didnt want to have a dog living in the city (personal choice)

Now this dog doesnt have any shot, but thats one of my questions

1. Shots. What shots does it need, we never got shots for our dogs when growing up and they were all fine. My brother has dogs too, none of his has shots, no problems. Whats the cost, what are they for, etc

2. Spaying/neuturing - when and the cost. She is about 3 months old so how old should she be. I dont to worry about puppies and then giving them away.

I think thats about it though. Any help would be appreciated

Shots: Rabies, parvovirus and there are a couple of others your vet will recommend.

Spaying: Anytime after 3 months. Don't worry about the cost, it's well worth it, your dog will be healthier spayed.

[Spidey]

Shots: Rabies, parvovirus and there are a couple of others your vet will recommend.

Spaying: Anytime after 3 months. Don't worry about the cost, it's well worth it, your dog will be healthier spayed.

Thing is some vets recommend almsot everything.

[IronMac]

Thing is some vets recommend almsot everything.

And some vets don't ask enough questions. One of your fav vets says that there's no need to vaccinate against many things because she won't be at dog parks, kennels, etc. yet in another post you say that your neighbours have dogs too and that they come around. Frankly, it doesn't sound as if your dog is going to be as isolated if she is in contact with other dogs.

Penny-wise and pound-foolish as the saying goes.

So, what sort of yard setup are you going to set up for her when she becomes an "outside dog"?

[IronMac]

They also "get it". ;)

Maybe you can enlighten us as to this "get it"?

[KorruptioN]

All of these questions (and more!) can be answered with a quick 2 minute phone call to your local vet.


Id rather get it from here.

:confused:

These armchair experts will tell you a lot!

[CSK'sMom]

Maybe you can enlighten us as to this "get it"?


Large animal vets generally are a very different type of vet from a small animal vet. They don't push every vaccination imaginable along with flea meds, etc. They "get" that farm dogs and cats are not usually spoiled, dressed up and pampered psuedo replacements for children. ;)

As a good example ask a small animal vet how often a rabies vaccination is actually required and then ask a large animal vet, you'll get two very different answers. ;)

[setell]

What about deworming? We had ours dewormed while getting his shots. The deworming was included in the cost of the shots. You only need to deworm them as puppy and than every so often as a prevention. You should ask if it's included in the cost of the shots.

I actually don't know which shots we gave our little guy since it was a combo one. All I know is we gave him his rabies and a few other that I weren't too familiar with.

Like the others have mentioned, spaying/neutering can be a costly procedure depending where you live, how old the animal is and if it's spaying or neutering. I found neutering to be cheaper than spaying since it's less time consuming and not as "invasive" too.

[joeyjoejoe]

If you are looking for a vet, here's a website that users can input their own ratings:

http://www.vetratingz.com/index2.jsp

[Spidey]

And some vets don't ask enough questions. One of your fav vets says that there's no need to vaccinate against many things because she won't be at dog parks, kennels, etc. yet in another post you say that your neighbours have dogs too and that they come around. Frankly, it doesn't sound as if your dog is going to be as isolated if she is in contact with other dogs.

Penny-wise and pound-foolish as the saying goes.

So, what sort of yard setup are you going to set up for her when she becomes an "outside dog"?

IMO I think animals are vaccinated to much for crap they don't need. Ill probably get flamed for that, and if you want to vaccinate your animal for every possible thing, then go ahead. I myself I don't get vaccinated during flu season while another people do, personal choice.

But I will get her vaccinated for stuff that can kill her and for rabies.

Yard setup, thats a good one, thats a typical city answer. She will have no yard setup, she will have the yard to do what she will. Just like any other farm dog in existence.

[Spidey]

Large animal vets generally are a very different type of vet from a small animal vet. They don't push every vaccination imaginable along with flea meds, etc. They "get" that farm dogs and cats are not usually spoiled, dressed up and pampered pseudo replacements for children. ;)

As a good example ask a small animal vet how often a rabies vaccination is actually required and then ask a large animal vet, you'll get two very different answers. ;)

Thanks for the answer, I couldn't of said it better myself.

On a side not, we have 2 cats as well, and guess what they are outside 100% of the time, even when its -30 and they are fine. They have their little igloo house filled with straw and blankets, and when the winds howling and its cold and I check them, they are in there warm as can be.

Our dog will be the same starting in the spring, just for now since she is little she is inside when we are home, when we aren't she's in the garage. We haven't taught her how to use the doggie door yet in the garage door to go outside.

[Spidey]

:confused:

These armchair experts will tell you a lot!

I'd rather get it from people that have experiences than a vet that will want to push their products to make more money.

Your cat has diabetes, that will be $500 a month in medication. Oh ok, here ya go. My cure for that is cheaper, get a new cat. Where I come from cats are free and getting out down constantly because they cant find homes. So if a cat is going to die if you don't give it $500 worth of medication, then so be it.

Broken bones that can be set, sure. But people getting cancer surgery on animals that may or may not make it, just wouldnt be doing it

Flame me at will, but this is my opinion on animals.

[Spidey]

What about deworming? We had ours dewormed while getting his shots. The deworming was included in the cost of the shots. You only need to deworm them as puppy and than every so often as a prevention. You should ask if it's included in the cost of the shots.

I actually don't know which shots we gave our little guy since it was a combo one. All I know is we gave him his rabies and a few other that I weren't too familiar with.

Like the others have mentioned, spaying/neutering can be a costly procedure depending where you live, how old the animal is and if it's spaying or neutering. I found neutering to be cheaper than spaying since it's less time consuming and not as "invasive" too.

Deworming is something I will be doing with the pills you can buy, worked in the past with our animals on the farm. Just put it in with their food,and done.

My wife said she already made an appointment for shots when I was at work yesterday, and I said what shots where those. She said there were so many she cant remember. I told her to cancel the appointment until I know what she is getting.

[IronMac]

Large animal vets generally are a very different type of vet from a small animal vet. They don't push every vaccination imaginable along with flea meds, etc. They "get" that farm dogs and cats are not usually spoiled, dressed up and pampered psuedo replacements for children. ;)

As a good example ask a small animal vet how often a rabies vaccination is actually required and then ask a large animal vet, you'll get two very different answers. ;)

What a load of c***k. A good vet that knows what questions to ask should be able to tell you how often your pet needs a rabies shot. A dog in the middle of downtown T.O. will need it far less than a dog in the middle of the woods somewhere. Simple as that.

I don't know what sort of experience you have with vets but frankly I doubt that it's wide-ranging enough to make such general statements.

BTW, it may be a good idea to get rabies shots since you have coons in your area.

[IronMac]

Like the others have mentioned, spaying/neutering can be a costly procedure depending where you live, how old the animal is and if it's spaying or neutering. I found neutering to be cheaper than spaying since it's less time consuming and not as "invasive" too.

That's because neutering is for male animals and spaying is for females.

[Spidey]

What a load of c***k. A good vet that knows what questions to ask should be able to tell you how often your pet needs a rabies shot. A dog in the middle of downtown T.O. will need it far less than a dog in the middle of the woods somewhere. Simple as that.

I don't know what sort of experience you have with vets but frankly I doubt that it's wide-ranging enough to make such general statements.

Have you ever used a vet that deals with more than just pets. Like horses, cows and the like. if you havent then you dont know the difference. Id take the word over a farm vet than a city vet any day

These are the vets that have to make housecalls in the middle of the night because the animal is to big to be moved

[IronMac]

IMO I think animals are vaccinated to much for crap they don't need. Ill probably get flamed for that, and if you want to vaccinate your animal for every possible thing, then go ahead. I myself I don't get vaccinated during flu season while another people do, personal choice.

But I will get her vaccinated for stuff that can kill her and for rabies.

Yard setup, thats a good one, thats a typical city answer. She will have no yard setup, she will have the yard to do what she will. Just like any other farm dog in existence.

It sounds like your "opinion" is based more on price than anything else. How few vaccines can I get away with without endangering the animal's health?

Yard setup? From what I can tell, it's beginning to sound more like the typical "behind the junk yard" answer. Thank goodness they now have those little plastic igloos...otherwise, it'd be one of those wooden shelters.

[IronMac]

Your cat has diabetes, that will be $500 a month in medication. Oh ok, here ya go. My cure for that is cheaper, get a new cat. Where I come from cats are free and getting out down constantly because they cant find homes. So if a cat is going to die if you don't give it $500 worth of medication, then so be it.


Guess I wasn't far off the mark when I said "put them down or shoot them"?

[IronMac]

Have you ever used a vet that deals with more than just pets. Like horses, cows and the like. if you havent then you dont know the difference. Id take the word over a farm vet than a city vet any day


As I've said before, there really should be no difference. It's a matter of getting a vet that is willing to ask the right questions.

Your valued "difference" seems to be who will give me the lowest quote?

[CSK'sMom]

What a load of c***k. A good vet that knows what questions to ask should be able to tell you how often your pet needs a rabies shot. A dog in the middle of downtown T.O. will need it far less than a dog in the middle of the woods somewhere. Simple as that.

I don't know what sort of experience you have with vets but frankly I doubt that it's wide-ranging enough to make such general statements.

LOL! Well I can tell you that it was my sole responsibility to manage the health of a rather expensive herd of registered purebred and fullblood limousin cattle. I handled all the AI, natural breeding, calving, castrating, dehorning, etc. So needless to say I have lots of experience with vets, especially the large animal variety. I still have a great relationship with our former large animal vet as he's my first choice for our dogs as we prefer to stay as far away from small animal vets as possible after several money grabs over the years...

And LOL'ing at the TO comment and rabies vaccines. Gee, a simple search on these boards will come across quite a few threads where posters have been told that their TO, condo-bound pet absolutely has to have a rabies vaccine each and every year... Sigh....

[Spidey]

LOL! Well I can tell you that it was my sole responsibility to manage the health of a rather expensive herd of registered purebred and fullblood limousin cattle. I handled all the AI, natural breeding, calving, castrating, dehorning, etc. So needless to say I have lots of experience with vets, especially the large animal variety. I still have a great relationship with our former large animal vet as he's my first choice for our dogs as we prefer to stay as far away from small animal vets as possible after several money grabs over the years...

And LOL'ing at the TO comment and rabies vaccines. Gee, a simple search on these boards will come across quite a few threads where posters have been told that their TO, condo-bound pet absolutely has to have a rabies vaccine each and every year... Sigh....

Same here, although we were Charolais. I agree with the money grab with city vets as well, hence why i dont trust them. How can neuturing be $400 in the city, but $175 for a farm vet. That doesnt add up

[Spidey]

It sounds like your "opinion" is based more on price than anything else. How few vaccines can I get away with without endangering the animal's health?

Yard setup? From what I can tell, it's beginning to sound more like the typical "behind the junk yard" answer. Thank goodness they now have those little plastic igloos...otherwise, it'd be one of those wooden shelters.

Id trust city vets more and their costs if they werent so much more than large animla vets. And when the large animal vets areny pushing certain vaccinations like city vets, there must be a reason because they see animals in the real world than just a house and backyard

Whats wrong with a wooden dog house :confused: Our dogs on the farm used them for years and were fine.

As for "behind the junk yard" I think her being able to play in 5 acres is better than being cooped up in a kennel all day like in the city, or the postage stamp backyard so they can bark all day at the neighbours

[Spidey]

Guess I wasn't far off the mark when I said "put them down or shoot them"?

So whats worse, letting that an animal die that will cost you $500 a month, or let another animal die from not finding a home

[IronMac]

LOL! Well I can tell you that it was my sole responsibility to manage the health of a rather expensive herd of registered purebred and fullblood limousin cattle. I handled all the AI, natural breeding, calving, castrating, dehorning, etc. So needless to say I have lots of experience with vets, especially the large animal variety. I still have a great relationship with our former large animal vet as he's my first choice for our dogs as we prefer to stay as far away from small animal vets as possible after several money grabs over the years...

And LOL'ing at the TO comment and rabies vaccines. Gee, a simple search on these boards will come across quite a few threads where posters have been told that their TO, condo-bound pet absolutely has to have a rabies vaccine each and every year... Sigh....

How many vets do you actually know? 2? 3? 4 large animal ones? How many city vets do you know? 1? 2?

As for rabies vaccines in the city of Toronto...yes, definitely! Of course, not for those who are condo-bound. But, you yourself say that your dogs are in areas where there are raccoons.

What I take offense to is the impression that's being given out that "large-animal" vets are more honest than "small animal" vets. There will always be good and bad vets...it's not a matter of what sort of animal they tend to.

[IronMac]

Same here, although we were Charolais. I agree with the money grab with city vets as well, hence why i dont trust them. How can neuturing be $400 in the city, but $175 for a farm vet. That doesnt add up

You ever think that the city vet may have more expenses? Quelle surprise!

[IronMac]

Whats wrong with a wooden dog house :confused: Our dogs on the farm used them for years and were fine.



I don't need a gun for this fish in the barrel do I???

I'm curious...is this really a farm that you're on...or is this rationale akin to..."well, we always used animals for testing so it's all good"?

[IronMac]

So whats worse, letting that an animal die that will cost you $500 a month, or let another animal die from not finding a home

When did the topic swing around to finding them a home? Or are you hinting that you'd also consider abandonment of a sick animal?

[Bazooka Joe]

Although I disagree with you in principle, here's what I've learned.

Farm vets cost way less than city vets because many (most?) are subsidized.

DHLPP, rabies and bordatella are all needed for most kennels. I don't know if that's important to you but you'd be surprised how often things come up where you need to board your dog.

As for what to spend on animals for care, you have to weight the costs involved with getting a new one (training, time, etc) vs. the cost of not doing preventative things.

[CSK'sMom]

How many vets do you actually know? 2? 3? 4 large animal ones? How many city vets do you know? 1? 2?

As for rabies vaccines in the city of Toronto...yes, definitely! Of course, not for those who are condo-bound. But, you yourself say that your dogs are in areas where there are raccoons.

What I take offense to is the impression that's being given out that "large-animal" vets are more honest than "small animal" vets. There will always be good and bad vets...it's not a matter of what sort of animal they tend to.

We've obviously hit a nerve with you IronMac. Small animal vet by chance? ;)

Over the years we've known and dealt with many, many vets. If I had to venture I guess I'd say somewhere around 15-20. Growing up we bred dogs and dealt with quite a few small animal vets, including Guelph's Vet Clinic. On the farm I dealt with several different large animal vet's before finding our gem of a vet. When we moved back into the city we decided to give all the local small animal vets a chance and every single one of them failed miserably, from pushing vaccinations that were still up to date to insisting on neutering to threatening calling the Humane Society for refusing overpriced flea meds for a puppy that did not have fleas. As long as our large animal vet will take care of our dogs we'll keep him and keep sending him bottles of Crown Royale at Christmas. ;)

Oh by the way, I said I vaccinate for lepto every year, not rabies. :)

[Spidey]

I don't need a gun for this fish in the barrel do I???

I'm curious...is this really a farm that you're on...or is this rationale akin to..."well, we always used animals for testing so it's all good"?

I guess this one you will have to explain. A wooden dog house is bad because...

Same as your other remark, I dont understand what your trying to get across

[Spidey]

When did the topic swing around to finding them a home? Or are you hinting that you'd also consider abandonment of a sick animal?

I wouldnt consider abondement, Id consider putting them out of their misery. if you a cat lover Im sorry, but if I had to pay tons of money a month to keep a cat alive, then its gone. fact of life.

When I grew up we had a pup we kept from a litter for another cow dog. She was a great dog, but got hit by a car which broke her back, etc, etc. She still lived but was basically crippled unless she got a very expensive surgery, which the vet said it was likely she would never have great mobility anyways.

So my dad did what i would of done know, he put her down. It was the humane thing to do. I was about 10 at the time and it devestated me, but I also had to realize that things like this happen and has to handle it.

[Spidey]

Although I disagree with you in principle, here's what I've learned.

Farm vets cost way less than city vets because many (most?) are subsidized.

DHLPP, rabies and bordatella are all needed for most kennels. I don't know if that's important to you but you'd be surprised how often things come up where you need to board your dog.

As for what to spend on animals for care, you have to weight the costs involved with getting a new one (training, time, etc) vs. the cost of not doing preventative things.

Our dog will never see a kennel or be boarded, and I will do what i can to keep her healthy. I just think some of these vaccinations that vets push are unneccesary

[Spidey]

We've obviously hit a nerve with you IronMac. Small animal vet by chance? ;)

Over the years we've known and dealt with many, many vets. If I had to venture I guess I'd say somewhere around 15-20. Growing up we bred dogs and dealt with quite a few small animal vets, including Guelph's Vet Clinic. On the farm I dealt with several different large animal vet's before finding our gem of a vet. When we moved back into the city we decided to give all the local small animal vets a chance and every single one of them failed miserably, from pushing vaccinations that were still up to date to insisting on neutering to threatening calling the Humane Society for refusing overpriced flea meds for a puppy that did not have fleas. As long as our large animal vet will take care of our dogs we'll keep him and keep sending him bottles of Crown Royale at Christmas. ;)

Oh by the way, I said I vaccinate for lepto every year, not rabies. :)


Could you PM what you get your dog(s) vaccinated for. Im thinking your opinion is a little more level since youve dealt with different vets, as well as understanding what "farm" animals are about

[IronMac]

We've obviously hit a nerve with you IronMac. Small animal vet by chance? ;)

Over the years we've known and dealt with many, many vets. If I had to venture I guess I'd say somewhere around 15-20. Growing up we bred dogs and dealt with quite a few small animal vets, including Guelph's Vet Clinic. On the farm I dealt with several different large animal vet's before finding our gem of a vet. When we moved back into the city we decided to give all the local small animal vets a chance and every single one of them failed miserably, from pushing vaccinations that were still up to date to insisting on neutering to threatening calling the Humane Society for refusing overpriced flea meds for a puppy that did not have fleas. As long as our large animal vet will take care of our dogs we'll keep him and keep sending him bottles of Crown Royale at Christmas. ;)

Oh by the way, I said I vaccinate for lepto every year, not rabies. :)

First, no, I am not a small animal vet. On the other hand, I have seen videos of farm workers kicking chickens around when they're being rounded up...is that how we should think all farmers treat their animals?

Second, you could also have asked the vet first if they adhered to the OVMA Suggested Fee Guide.

I'd love to know your rationale for not vaccinating against rabies (1-3 years) when you are in an area with coons?

[IronMac]

I guess this one you will have to explain. A wooden dog house is bad because...

Same as your other remark, I dont understand what your trying to get across

I've never seen a wooden dog house that was not falling apart, wet and mouldy.

And you keep talking about "farm" all the time...as in...we used to do it on the "farm" so it's ok to do it now.

[setell]

That's because neutering is for male animals and spaying is for females.

I know neutering is for males and spaying is for females. I also said that neutering is less invasive and not as time consuming hence cheaper! They probably use less meds on the animal to which is another reason why neutering is cheaper.

Spidey I don't agree with what how you deal with animals when they get sick or certain vaccines but I hope you do spay your puppy. Unless you're ok with litters of puppy every so often! I wouldn't think $200 is that outrageous for a spaying but $400 is outrageous to me though.

[IronMac]

Unless you're ok with litters of puppy every so often!

He's okay with that. It's on the first or second page of this thread.

[Spidey]

I've never seen a wooden dog house that was not falling apart, wet and mouldy.

And you keep talking about "farm" all the time...as in...we used to do it on the "farm" so it's ok to do it now.

I have, Ive seen them all the time. Shingles on them and everything. Wind proof and nice and warm.

yes I think its ok, because all our dogs lived to be a ripe old age untill they had to be put down, or they died of old age. So if they survived and were happy, Im sure ours will do the same raising it like we used to.

City dogs are pussys compared to country dogs. I see dogs with boots and jackets on them in the cold weather walking around town, I mean come on.

[Spidey]

I know neutering is for males and spaying is for females. I also said that neutering is less invasive and not as time consuming hence cheaper! They probably use less meds on the animal to which is another reason why neutering is cheaper.

Spidey I don't agree with what how you deal with animals when they get sick or certain vaccines but I hope you do spay your puppy. Unless you're ok with litters of puppy every so often! I wouldn't think $200 is that outrageous for a spaying but $400 is outrageous to me though.

She will be getting spayed, but when one city vets cost is $400 and the next $600. I can see some cost difference, but that discrepincy is way to much to not raise warning flags. Plus some wont touch her unless she has her shots, so they tack on another $200 on top of that because of their shot suggestions. Im getting her shots for 4 things, thats it. Rabies, Distemper, Leptospirsis and parvo (maybe)

[IronMac]

I have, Ive seen them all the time. Shingles on them and everything. Wind proof and nice and warm.

Show us a picture then of a doghouse from your old farm.

[IronMac]

Im getting her shots for 4 things, thats it. Rabies, Distemper, Leptospirsis and parvo (maybe)

Oh good...so you're getting over half of what is probably available out there. A huge improvement from the one or two that you were probably hoping for. :lol:

[Spidey]

Show us a picture then of a doghouse from your old farm.

Sure, Ill drive 9 hours just to take a picture for you. Just because somethings not bought at a petshop or is built by yourself, doesnt mean its not any good.

[CSK'sMom]

I'd love to know your rationale for not vaccinating against rabies (1-3 years) when you are in an area with coons?

Did I say I don't vaccinate for rabies? Did I say how often I vaccinate for rabies? ;) I didn't so don't assume anything. Yes I have coons in my area, just like any other place in Canada. Lepto is far more prevalent here thanks to many lakes, streams, creeks, etc. I vaccinate for lepto because I have a pond in my yard that our dogs do drink from occasionally, coons do come into our yard occasionally and lepto is rampant here. Raccoon rabies (a specific disease not to be confused with rabies) is non-existent in my area thanks to an MNR program of bait/catch/vaccinate.

[Bazooka Joe]

Did I say I don't vaccinate for rabies? Did I say how often I vaccinate for rabies? ;) I didn't so don't assume anything. Yes I have coons in my area, just like any other place in Canada. Lepto is far more prevalent here thanks to many lakes, streams, creeks, etc. I vaccinate for lepto because I have a pond in my yard that our dogs do drink from occasionally, coons do come into our yard occasionally and lepto is rampant here. Raccoon rabies (a specific disease not to be confused with rabies) is non-existent in my area thanks to an MNR program of bait/catch/vaccinate.

Just to be a royal PITA (do what you’re good at:)), most places geographically in Canada are too far north for raccoons. Also most are too far north for Lepto (my vet is 70 years old and told me only once in his career has he seen it and that dog was recently brought up from Ottawa).

[setell]

Did I say I don't vaccinate for rabies? Did I say how often I vaccinate for rabies? ;) I didn't so don't assume anything. Yes I have coons in my area, just like any other place in Canada. Lepto is far more prevalent here thanks to many lakes, streams, creeks, etc. I vaccinate for lepto because I have a pond in my yard that our dogs do drink from occasionally, coons do come into our yard occasionally and lepto is rampant here. Raccoon rabies (a specific disease not to be confused with rabies) is non-existent in my area thanks to an MNR program of bait/catch/vaccinate.

Actually in Nova Scotia there isn't any racoons unless you live deep in the forest or very out in the woods (what I call the true boonies). They don't come out the way racoons do here. Since I moved to Ontario it seems racoons are a huge problem here, something new I learned since moving here.

[CSK'sMom]

Just to be a royal PITA (do what you’re good at:)), most places geographically in Canada are too far north for raccoons. Also most are too far north for Lepto (my vet is 70 years old and told me only once in his career has he seen it and that dog was recently brought up from Ottawa).

True, technically Joe. Although I hear most cities out west are having raccoon problems like never before as well as further North than ever before. Kind of like our opossum and possum problem here in Southern Ont that come up from the South on trucks and trains and has adapted.

[CheapScotsman]

Raccoon coverage map (from http://canadianbiodiversity.mcgill.ca/english/species/mammals/mammalpages/pro_lot.htm)

http://canadianbiodiversity.mcgill.ca/data/maps/mammals/pro_lot.gif

and while coons geographically roam much less of the country that is available; they overlap massively with the population of Canada ... and since people own dogs ...

[Bazooka Joe]

Raccoon coverage map (from http://canadianbiodiversity.mcgill.ca/english/species/mammals/mammalpages/pro_lot.htm)

http://canadianbiodiversity.mcgill.ca/data/maps/mammals/pro_lot.gif

and coons geographically roam much less of the country that is available; they overlap massively with the population of Canada ... and since people own dogs ...

That is a very cool link, thanks for sharing.

[Spidey]

Oh good...so you're getting over half of what is probably available out there. A huge improvement from the one or two that you were probably hoping for. :lol:

Half according to who??? You, your vet, small animal vets, etc.

I was taking at lunch with some dog owners, sicen a lot of the people here live on acreages and farms, and asking costs and what shot they have gotten, and said any vet in this vity are huge ripoffs and push unneeded vacinnations. I phone thre 2 places they suggested and got a cost of $240 with all the shots I want, and spayed. The vet also suggested to wait until about 6 months and since thats calving season to make sure to make an appointment way in advance. Drop her off in the morning and take her home in the afternoon

[watching]

As a good example ask a small animal vet how often a rabies vaccination is actually required and then ask a large animal vet, you'll get two very different answers. ;)

That may be so, but as a dog owner my dog gets the rabies vaccination every 2 years. Rabid bats in Ontario are a problem. As well, I've seen a cat (not mine) sick with rabies and for the price of the vaccine, it's well worth not ever seeing my pet suffer like that.

[watching]

We've obviously hit a nerve with you IronMac. Small animal vet by chance? ;)

Over the years we've known and dealt with many, many vets. If I had to venture I guess I'd say somewhere around 15-20. Growing up we bred dogs and dealt with quite a few small animal vets, including Guelph's Vet Clinic. On the farm I dealt with several different large animal vet's before finding our gem of a vet. When we moved back into the city we decided to give all the local small animal vets a chance and every single one of them failed miserably, from pushing vaccinations that were still up to date to insisting on neutering to threatening calling the Humane Society for refusing overpriced flea meds for a puppy that did not have fleas. As long as our large animal vet will take care of our dogs we'll keep him and keep sending him bottles of Crown Royale at Christmas. ;)

Oh by the way, I said I vaccinate for lepto every year, not rabies. :)

Interesting, because any vet can "push" anything they want, the animal owner doesn't have to agree to any of it. As for a vet threatening to call the HS because you refused flea meds, that's ridiculous since the HS would do nothing, nor could it, in that situation.

An informed pet owner is the best advocate for any pet.

[watching]

Our dog will never see a kennel or be boarded, and I will do what i can to keep her healthy. I just think some of these vaccinations that vets push are unneccesary

You would be wise to do a bit of research yourself, for example, the rabies vaccine is mandatory I believe. My dog gets an annual parvovirus vaccine as well - that's a horrible disease and excruciating death for any dog suffering with parvo. That's about it - I never board my dog, so he really doesn't need anything else.

[watching]

Half according to who??? You, your vet, small animal vets, etc.

I was taking at lunch with some dog owners, sicen a lot of the people here live on acreages and farms, and asking costs and what shot they have gotten, and said any vet in this vity are huge ripoffs and push unneeded vacinnations. I phone thre 2 places they suggested and got a cost of $240 with all the shots I want, and spayed. The vet also suggested to wait until about 6 months and since thats calving season to make sure to make an appointment way in advance. Drop her off in the morning and take her home in the afternoon

Spaying requires a general anaesthesia - your vet wouldn't keep her in overnight to monitor her vitals while recuperating???

[Spidey]

You would be wise to do a bit of research yourself, for example, the rabies vaccine is mandatory I believe. My dog gets an annual parvovirus vaccine as well - that's a horrible disease and excruciating death for any dog suffering with parvo. That's about it - I never board my dog, so he really doesn't need anything else.

Im getting the rabies, as well as the distemper and parvo when she gets spayed. But some of the shots some of the vets thought she needed i think were just money grabs

[watching]

and while coons geographically roam much less of the country that is available; they overlap massively with the population of Canada ... and since people own dogs ...

Good map, but it isn't just raccoons who could be rabid (although that's very unlikely). Rabid bats are more common.

[Spidey]

Spaying requires a general anaesthesia - your vet wouldn't keep her in overnight to monitor her vitals while recuperating???

This is a large animal vet that has been doing it for years, and Ive gotten comments from many peopel that have taken dogs there and said everything worked out great.

[watching]

Im getting the rabies, as well as the distemper and parvo when she gets spayed. But some of the shots some of the vets thought she needed i think were just money grabs

I think a lot of vaccines doctors give kids are just as useless and cause more harm than good. It's always best to do one's own research.

[watching]

This is a large animal vet that has been doing it for years, and Ive gotten comments from many peopel that have taken dogs there and said everything worked out great.

I always understood that vets were either large animal or companion animal vets, but not both. :confused: Anyway, the CVO has a good site for information

http://www.cvo.org/regulat-acc-categories.cfm

[CSK'sMom]

I always understood that vets were either large animal or companion animal vets, but not both. :confused: Anyway, the CVO has a good site for information

http://www.cvo.org/regulat-acc-categories.cfm

There are loads of large animal vets that do some small animal work, especially now more than ever before. The family farm is almost a thing of the past and resulting in many vets that prefer large animals feeling the pinch and doing limited small animal work. They learn both in school...

Even our new-ish equine vet here in Niagara is now doing some large animal vetting as well as very limited small animal thanks to the decline (an now real possibility of closure) of Fort Erie Race Track.

[CSK'sMom]

Spaying requires a general anaesthesia - your vet wouldn't keep her in overnight to monitor her vitals while recuperating???


LMAO! For an extra charge of course! One of the small animal vets we checked out quoted an extra $90 to keep overnight after a spay or neuter and it was highly suggested too of course but not mandatory and not included in the neuter fee.

[watching]

LMAO! For an extra charge of course! One of the small animal vets we checked out quoted an extra $90 to keep overnight after a spay or neuter and it was highly suggested too of course but not mandatory and not included in the neuter fee.

I don't know what you find so funny.

General anaesthesia isn't a cakewalk for any animal and it's used for spaying, not neutering. If you were having that kind of surgery, I doubt you'd want to be whisked in and out the same day.

Neutering is entirely different - no general anaesthesia is involved, so there's no vitals to monitor, ergo, no need to keep the dog overnight.

[CheapScotsman]

I don't know what you find so funny.Perhaps she is laughing because even for some human "operations" that use generals ... you are not kept overnight.

I had 4 wisdom teeth removed under general .... just a few hrs after I woke up I was home.

[watching]

Perhaps she is laughing because even for some human "operations" that use generals ... you are not kept overnight.

I had 4 wisdom teeth removed under general .... just a few hrs after I woke up I was home.

If she was to undergo a hysterectomy, which is basically what spaying is, I guarantee you she wouldn't be in and out the same day, so I fail to see the humour. On the flip side, if you were going to get snipped (neutered) you'd be in and out of the doctor's office in no time.

Wisdom teeth are an entirely different part of the body.

[CSK'sMom]

I don't know what you find so funny.

General anaesthesia isn't a cakewalk for any animal and it's used for spaying, not neutering. If you were having that kind of surgery, I doubt you'd want to be whisked in and out the same day.

Neutering is entirely different - no general anaesthesia is involved, so there's no vitals to monitor, ergo, no need to keep the dog overnight.

I hate to tell you watching but there are some small animal vets out there using generals for neuters. It's an upsell for some vets, others only do them under general and charge accordingly. We have 2 vets in our city that only do them under general. I find it absolutely hysterically funny that vets charge extra for putting these animals that "so called" need observation into a cage to be checked at closing, "maybe" once through the night and again at opening time. If you honestly believe there is staff in the kennels at the vets office 24/7 I have a bridge that's for sale. ;)

edited to add:... I hate to tell you but a hysterectomy can be a day surgery watching and is more often than not these days. One of my best girlfriends just had one yesterday morning and was home last night. ;)

[CheapScotsman]

If she was to undergo a hysterectomy, which is basically what spaying is, I guarantee you she wouldn't be in and out the same day, so I fail to see the humour. On the flip side, if you were going to get snipped (neutered) you'd be in and out of the doctor's office in no time.

Wisdom teeth are an entirely different part of the body.Well, doing a quick search indicates that there are some people who have had hysterectomy and gone home the same day ... and some clinical studies done in England, etc on the benefits of day surgery vs staying longer.

Having a general (and its risks) is the same regardless of the body parts.

Guess it depends on whether you are staying in to monitor based on the fact you had a hysterectomy or whether you had a general ... and, of course, all of this is for a dog of which the "issues" might be less inclined to occur and the owner might be more inclined to take the risks vs extra time/cost for an overnight stay (especially if the surgery was done first thing in the morning).

[setell]

If she was to undergo a hysterectomy, which is basically what spaying is, I guarantee you she wouldn't be in and out the same day, so I fail to see the humour. On the flip side, if you were going to get snipped (neutered) you'd be in and out of the doctor's office in no time.

Wisdom teeth are an entirely different part of the body.

You can safely say CSK'smom and Spidey's thinking of dogs and cats are different than ours. I honestly would pay the $90 for monitoring if they offered it when I spayed my cat. When I had my cat spayed her surgery was at 7am and we took her home at 8pm that night. They only let you take the kitty/doggie home if things go smoothly or their vitals for the day was good.

Spidey, make sure you take good care of your dog the first few days after the spaying. They are in pain and hopefully you get the little girl some pain medications.

[CSK'sMom]

Setell, it's not that we think any less of our pets. It's that we are fully aware of the small animal vets just love seeing pet owners like you that would pay a million bucks if they had it to keep a terminal pet around for an extra month.

Both Spidey and I have farming backgrounds where animals are not subjected to such foolery and needless suffering. If an animal is terminal and/or suffering it deserves to be put down in a respectful way. I've done the deed myself under vet supervision with a heifer as well as 2 calves. When the time comes I will do it for my current dogs just as I have for a previous dog...

[watching]

I hate to tell you watching but there are some small animal vets out there using generals for neuters.

Who? Names? Links????????


We have 2 vets in our city that only do them under general.

Who? Names? Links????????



I find it absolutely hysterically funny that vets charge extra for putting these animals that "so called" need observation into a cage to be checked at closing, "maybe" once through the night and again at opening time. If you honestly believe there is staff in the kennels at the vets office 24/7 I have a bridge that's for sale. ;)

I'm glad you find it so funny when dogs are taken care of properly after major surgery under general anaesthetic. Frankly, I find it imperative. :rolleyes:

Keep in mind that not all dogs are the same, every dog has it's own health issues, however minor they may be, that must be taken into account when undergoing surgery and also in the post-op care. Speaking of which, post-op dogs are monitored in kennels the size of which does not permit the animals to strain themselves post-operatively, unlike your backyard where a post-op animal will run and possibly hurt herself immediately after surgery.

I seriously don't understand your LMAO + LOL'ing attitude. There are very good city vets around, just as there are certainly many farm vets who shouldn't be practising at all. My last dog was spayed and she spent the night comfortably at the vet's, with the appropriate amount of meds to ease her post-op pain. The overnight fee is a pittance.

[watching]

You can safely say CSK'smom and Spidey's thinking of dogs and cats are different than ours. I honestly would pay the $90 for monitoring if they offered it when I spayed my cat. When I had my cat spayed her surgery was at 7am and we took her home at 8pm that night. They only let you take the kitty/doggie home if things go smoothly or their vitals for the day was good.

Spidey, make sure you take good care of your dog the first few days after the spaying. They are in pain and hopefully you get the little girl some pain medications.

I get the impression that Spidey is open to suggestions, not as close minded as some on this thread. ;)

I too would and have paid the extra to have a spayed dog tended to in a medical facility overnight with proper doses of IV paid meds, if necessary. What a riot that as soon as we have ideas different than some others, suddenly we know nothing, the others know it all. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[IronMac]

Did I say I don't vaccinate for rabies? Did I say how often I vaccinate for rabies? ;) I didn't so don't assume anything.

Hrmmm...you said:

"Oh by the way, I said I vaccinate for lepto every year, not rabies."

So, how often do you vaccinate for rabies then?

[IronMac]

Sure, Ill drive 9 hours just to take a picture for you. Just because somethings not bought at a petshop or is built by yourself, doesnt mean its not any good.

Ok, so no photographs from the old days?

As goes an old RFD adage...no photo? It didn't happen.

[IronMac]

Im getting the rabies, as well as the distemper and parvo when she gets spayed. But some of the shots some of the vets thought she needed i think were just money grabs

According to who? You? Your large animal vet?

Which other shots did you think were money grabbers? As I've said before, you've got OVER half of the ones available out there.

[IronMac]

Good map, but it isn't just raccoons who could be rabid (although that's very unlikely). Rabid bats are more common.

Foxes are another issue in the city of Toronto now.

[IronMac]

LMAO! For an extra charge of course! One of the small animal vets we checked out quoted an extra $90 to keep overnight after a spay or neuter and it was highly suggested too of course but not mandatory and not included in the neuter fee.

You'd also have to remember that the $90 also includes the boarding fee which for a local vet here is $45 a night.

You can think of overnight monitoring as an insurance policy for the operation.

[IronMac]

If you honestly believe there is staff in the kennels at the vets office 24/7 I have a bridge that's for sale. ;)



Have a look at this ad:

http://www.accg.com/page161.htm

Available to work on a shift rotation through days, evenings and overnights - monthly rotations

And here's a blogger:

http://unleashedhound.com/

"I just finished eight straight shifts - 4 days, 3 overnights, 1 evening"

[IronMac]

Setell, it's not that we think any less of our pets. It's that we are fully aware of the small animal vets just love seeing pet owners like you that would pay a million bucks if they had it to keep a terminal pet around for an extra month.


Gee...I guess the small animal vet I saw for my dog was actually a LARGE animal vet in the city. My dog had bone cancer and the vet said he could give me painkillers or operate but he said that the best choice was to put him down which I did do.

Frankly, you do a huge disservice for those small animal vets who are conscientious in carrying out their services. Not only that but there is this condescending attitude that just because you've grown up on a farm that you know what is best for the animals. Thank goodness we didn't have to go through that hoary old chestnut of "well, I know where our food came from while cityslickers think they only come from packages in the supermarket".

As for your "we've gone through many vets...about 15-20"...there are only about 11,000 vets in Canada. Perhaps the issue is not with them?

[setell]

Setell, it's not that we think any less of our pets. It's that we are fully aware of the small animal vets just love seeing pet owners like you that would pay a million bucks if they had it to keep a terminal pet around for an extra month.
Both Spidey and I have farming backgrounds where animals are not subjected to such foolery and needless suffering. If an animal is terminal and/or suffering it deserves to be put down in a respectful way. I've done the deed myself under vet supervision with a heifer as well as 2 calves. When the time comes I will do it for my current dogs just as I have for a previous dog...

I actually do have a terminally ill cat. So I can speak from experience that my vet told us repeatedly to put our cat down since he didn't really know what was causing my cat to be so sick and much 'cheaper' on us too. We were stubborn and didn't want to put her down without knowing what was making her sick. I would put her down if she was diagnosed with a serious condition like cancer but our first vet had no freaking clue why she was sick and kept treating her for the side effects. So we changed to a vet that only service felines and voila my little girl is doing amazing now! Right now I'll say it costs us about $1.50-$2 to keep her alive a day with a combo of meds and a special diet. To us that is peanuts considering how happy she makes us now that she's back to her old self. Yes, we did pay a lot of money to the first vet while he messed around but overall I am happy I held onto faith she would be better. Yes, I am 2/3k poorer but my happiness and my families happies is worth that 2/3k spent. Some people spend excessively on electronics we just spent it to keep our family baby alive that is all.

So in essence there are small animal vets out there that will tell you to put a pet down. Not just farm animal vets will tell you that.

EDIT: There's also a lot of "not so great" vets too. Ones where they just don't know what the heck is going on and putting the animal down is the solution for them. It's rude but to me they are the 'stupid' vets and I prefer going to a vet that knows what is going on.

[Spidey]

Ok, so no photographs from the old days?

As goes an old RFD adage...no photo? It didn't happen.

Sure we do, tons at my parents house. But im not wasting my time finding one for you. Needless to say, shes getting a wooden dog house.

[Spidey]

I get the impression that Spidey is open to suggestions, not as close minded as some on this thread. ;)

I too would and have paid the extra to have a spayed dog tended to in a medical facility overnight with proper doses of IV paid meds, if necessary. What a riot that as soon as we have ideas different than some others, suddenly we know nothing, the others know it all. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Im taking her in and taking her home the same day. I had day surgery as well, go in the morning, get put under, home that afternoon. Give her the pain meds recommended and away we go. Plus puppies are like kids, they recover from stuff alot faster than the adult versions

[Spidey]

According to who? You? Your large animal vet?

Which other shots did you think were money grabbers? As I've said before, you've got OVER half of the ones available out there.

Id rather take the advice from a large animal vet, and people that actually own farm dogs, than city vets and people that have city dogs. City vets prey on pet owners to make them get ever possible vaccination needed. And every person Ive talked to that has pets on the farm, think the same thing as well.

Im getting her the 4 vaccinations, and thats it. If it gets you so riled up report me to the Humane Soceity. Also tell them about the wooden dog house, the fact she wont be fenced in, etc. Want my address, Ill give that to you as well

[Spidey]

You'd also have to remember that the $90 also includes the boarding fee which for a local vet here is $45 a night.

You can think of overnight monitoring as an insurance policy for the operation.

Well of course they push that, more money in their pocket. If they cared about the pets so much, include it in the spaying fee,

[IronMac]

Also tell them about the wooden dog house, the fact she wont be fenced in, etc.

While the idea of a wide-open, non-fenced in space may sound appealing it reminds me of the time I was touring the Cabot Trail and came across this gorgeous Black Lab that was running around the highway south of Cheticamp. It turns out that it belonged to some idiot who didn't have a fence around his property. The dog was running hither and thither...sure, it had land as far as the eye could see but it was a huge hazard on the highway and it was going to get killed.

[Spidey]

While the idea of a wide-open, non-fenced in space may sound appealing it reminds me of the time I was touring the Cabot Trail and came across this gorgeous Black Lab that was running around the highway south of Cheticamp. It turns out that it belonged to some idiot who didn't have a fence around his property. The dog was running hither and thither...sure, it had land as far as the eye could see but it was a huge hazard on the highway and it was going to get killed.

Well when you live on the farm or an acreage thats what happens. All over this country. I think its worse to keep a dog tethered or locked in a kennel all day then be able to explore. Plus its about teaching your dog as well. Some dogs are worse than others for car chasing

[pai]

another thing u might consider is heartworm medication for hte summer months
if they are outside a lot, and get bite by insects, its easy for them to catch heartworm which is fatal.

[joeyjoejoe]

I actually do have a terminally ill cat. So I can speak from experience that my vet told us repeatedly to put our cat down since he didn't really know what was causing my cat to be so sick and much 'cheaper' on us too. We were stubborn and didn't want to put her down without knowing what was making her sick. I would put her down if she was diagnosed with a serious condition like cancer but our first vet had no freaking clue why she was sick and kept treating her for the side effects. So we changed to a vet that only service felines and voila my little girl is doing amazing now! Right now I'll say it costs us about $1.50-$2 to keep her alive a day with a combo of meds and a special diet. To us that is peanuts considering how happy she makes us now that she's back to her old self. Yes, we did pay a lot of money to the first vet while he messed around but overall I am happy I held onto faith she would be better. Yes, I am 2/3k poorer but my happiness and my families happies is worth that 2/3k spent. Some people spend excessively on electronics we just spent it to keep our family baby alive that is all.

So in essence there are small animal vets out there that will tell you to put a pet down. Not just farm animal vets will tell you that.

EDIT: There's also a lot of "not so great" vets too. Ones where they just don't know what the heck is going on and putting the animal down is the solution for them. It's rude but to me they are the 'stupid' vets and I prefer going to a vet that knows what is going on.

Glad to hear things worked out! I remember when you were looking for a specialist, but didn't get much help on RFD.

[Dustbunny]

Okay chiming in. Spidey you are thinking more clearly than you may believe. Give google a shot with 'vaccinosis' to see what I mean. There is entirely too many vaccinations for no good reason out there and a lot of very bad, long term side effects, and that doesn't even count the costs. There is a huge movement on now to not over vaccinate dogs and some very good reasons for it. Truth is they are the vet's bread and butter and a lot of vets give them without a lot of thought.

I challenged my vet with the dog I have now and told him if he could find info to show me my dog needed shots/boosters I'd do them...we no longer get shots/boosters of any sort and he no longer recommends them. Once I challenged my vet (who luckily is open minded), he did some research and ended up realizing the recommendations were best guesses basically and made no sense when you consider how humans are vaccinated. Totally changed his mind about shots. Imagine, only now are they actually testing how long the rabies shot lasts. They still haven't tested the other shots. So far rabies immunity is up to 7 years and that's only because they have only been studying it for 7 years. Chances are it's good for life but it will be a while before the study can show that.

What I would recommend is you find out what runs in Med. Hat (or any place you will be taking the dog). If you need those shots, do not get them in a combo or all at once as that can cause the problems. Most vets will give them individually if you ask and won't charge you through the nose for them. It's just safer for the puppy to have the shots individually as it's easier on their immune system. As it is the series of puppy shots are overkill for the most part and they are now saying you don't need them repeated every 4 weeks as they are basically doing it without a lot of research behind it anyway. Puppy should have pretty much all it needs from mom and one set of shots given before it's 4 mos old. I didn't used to worry much about this but I now know of 4 dogs who died after their shots (rabies in particular) and found it was directly related to the shots so this is not to be taken as lightly as it once was at all as more and more owners are noting side effects that even include personality changes (some dogs have become aggressive for some reason). Meanwhile, some experts and now thinking a lot of auto-immune problems (arthritis for instance) are a result of over taxing their immune systems by over vaccinating.

In Calgary there was a run of parvo this fall so you may need to get that one if a dog near you has had it and been out running around (since you have a pup). That virus can hang around a long time as I understand it. Older dogs don't need the shot if they are healthy usually since parvo usually only gets pups. Only get rabies if it's running in the wildlife that is around that the pup may come into contact with and ask for the shot that is good for 3 years as that one should last a lifetime (my dog is on year 4 and her titers show she is still fully immune. Titers BTW are tests you can have done to test the dog's immunity and will pass if you need to cross the border or run into anyone insisting on shots for some reason.). Lepto is dicey. The lepto shot they give in Calgary doesn't even have the most common strain of lepto dogs catch here. Curing lepto isn't that big a deal according to my vet so you decide... pay for a shot the dog may not need or take the risk and treat the problem if it arises. Ghiardia (beaver fever) is a big deal in AB especially in the spring and there are shots, but again, if you are willing to take the dog in when it gets the poops to get the meds that is a viable option. You decide which you'd rather risk and pay for.

What I did with this dog when I got her was get the puppy shots (for things she could actually catch where I live), individually with a week or so between them, and nothing after. No boosters and she's been fine (and her titers show she's not needing anything). Reality is diet is more important than anything and a dog fed right (no garbage kibble full of corn or wheat) will be healthy enough to fight pretty much any of the common things. If you hunt or know someone who does you might want to look at feeding raw or prey model to keep the pup really healthy.

Most of all don't assume. I assumed because the Calgary license asked for the date of the rabies vaccination it was mandatory.. I was wrong. It isn't at all here. It's also very low risk in Calgary but I am not sure about Med. Hat area.

Bordetella is another basic waster. It's like our flu shot in that it only has certain strains (of Kennel cough) in it and unless the dog is weak or has auto-immune problems, they basically get a cold. The cure is waiting about 6 days for it to go away and the best the shot really does is make it a milder case. If they do get bad case they get something similar to bronchitis which can require meds. My dog got bordetella once for some training place and low and behold she got a runny nose anyway and that is when my vet told me about it all. No bordetella for her anymore I can tell you, and she has never caught a cold since (I raw feed and credit it with her great health).

What you will find is there is a lot of controversy on the topic but if you do some research you will see what is and isn't necessary. If you pup is out of harms way until it's bigger that is half the battle. With all the snow and cold we have going, not much chance of her catching much right now other than a chill. BTW, if it's cold enough for you to need gloves, it's too cold for a puppy. They just don't have the fat stores needed to keep themselves warm like older dogs have so don't let her out very long in this weather, fur coat or not and make sure the garage is actually warm enough for her right now.

As for spaying, I think $200 - $300 would be on par. You would do well to shop around and ask about prices as they jump when the dog goes over a certain weight (I think the first jump is at 45 lbs but I may be off there). In Calgary you can pay $180 - $1000 depending on who you go to. The shinier the office, the bigger the bill usually, and paying more doesn't mean a better vet either. I have a great vet and he's probably one of the least expensive in town yet he's also one of the best if you ask pet owners. He just doesn't like to empty wallets and there are quite a few like that but you have to shop around, ask other pet owners, call each office and ask their basic prices for office visits, spays, shots. There is no reason to leave a dog overnight for a spay unless there is a problem. Usually you drop them off in the morning and pick them up in the afternoon and if a vet office tells you otherwise, they are focused more on wallets than care IMO.

BTW if she has to have shots to be spayed, have the shots done well in advance. You don't want her body trying to put up with the vaccines at the same time it's getting an operation. It's just more than is wise to do at one time on a little body like that. Meanwhile, if you call around, there are probably vets who have run into owners like myself and no longer require the shots first. Again, why do they need shots to have a spay? What's the logic there? I could maybe see it if there was a parvo dog in the clinic, but then if there was a parvo case in the clinic I wouldn't want my pup anywhere near it shot or not (and that parvo should be in a quarantined area anyway). I can't imagine why they need shots to be spayed. Maybe someone knows the reason because I can't think of one good one.

As for heartworm... well AB has had very few cases so far. You don't need the puppy tested, but you would probably be wise to get it the meds in the summer. If she has the meds her first year and the following years, she wouldn't ever need the blood tests some vets try and sell. My dog doesn't even get those any more as there have been no cases of heartworm in Calgary yet and she gets Revolution instead which stops a lot of problems. If I took her to an area with heartworm, I would get her the meds first though.

Here again, some vets try to suck you dry. You only need the meds for the month after the first adult mosquitoes surface (and 30 days after they are gone) and in AB that is usually June/July to Oct depending on our weather. I have heard of some people being told they have to buy some for 12 mos of the year and that is just insane in this climate.

Anyway, do look up vaccinosis and do really speak with the vet about what is required for Med. Hat. You are not interested in what is 'usually' given. You are only interested in what is in the best interest of the pup.

[setell]

Glad to hear things worked out! I remember when you were looking for a specialist, but didn't get much help on RFD.

Thanks! I can't remember if it was you or somebody else but they PM and told me to go to this wonderful pet forum. I got a lot of help and support there. It was good to know we weren't the only ones with a terminally ill kitty (or the only "crazy" one).

[Spidey]

Okay chiming in. Spidey you are thinking more clearly than you may believe. Give google a shot with 'vaccinosis' to see what I mean. There is entirely too many vaccinations for no good reason out there and a lot of very bad, long term side effects, and that doesn't even count the costs. There is a huge movement on now to not over vaccinate dogs and some very good reasons for it. Truth is they are the vet's bread and butter and a lot of vets give them without a lot of thought.

I challenged my vet with the dog I have now and told him if he could find info to show me my dog needed shots/boosters I'd do them...we no longer get shots/boosters of any sort and he no longer recommends them. Once I challenged my vet (who luckily is open minded), he did some research and ended up realizing the recommendations were best guesses basically and made no sense when you consider how humans are vaccinated. Totally changed his mind about shots. Imagine, only now are they actually testing how long the rabies shot lasts. They still haven't tested the other shots. So far rabies immunity is up to 7 years and that's only because they have only been studying it for 7 years. Chances are it's good for life but it will be a while before the study can show that.

What I would recommend is you find out what runs in Med. Hat (or any place you will be taking the dog). If you need those shots, do not get them in a combo or all at once as that can cause the problems. Most vets will give them individually if you ask and won't charge you through the nose for them. It's just safer for the puppy to have the shots individually as it's easier on their immune system. As it is the series of puppy shots are overkill for the most part and they are now saying you don't need them repeated every 4 weeks as they are basically doing it without a lot of research behind it anyway. Puppy should have pretty much all it needs from mom and one set of shots given before it's 4 mos old. I didn't used to worry much about this but I now know of 4 dogs who died after their shots (rabies in particular) and found it was directly related to the shots so this is not to be taken as lightly as it once was at all as more and more owners are noting side effects that even include personality changes (some dogs have become aggressive for some reason). Meanwhile, some experts and now thinking a lot of auto-immune problems (arthritis for instance) are a result of over taxing their immune systems by over vaccinating.

In Calgary there was a run of parvo this fall so you may need to get that one if a dog near you has had it and been out running around (since you have a pup). That virus can hang around a long time as I understand it. Older dogs don't need the shot if they are healthy usually since parvo usually only gets pups. Only get rabies if it's running in the wildlife that is around that the pup may come into contact with and ask for the shot that is good for 3 years as that one should last a lifetime (my dog is on year 4 and her titers show she is still fully immune. Titers BTW are tests you can have done to test the dog's immunity and will pass if you need to cross the border or run into anyone insisting on shots for some reason.). Lepto is dicey. The lepto shot they give in Calgary doesn't even have the most common strain of lepto dogs catch here. Curing lepto isn't that big a deal according to my vet so you decide... pay for a shot the dog may not need or take the risk and treat the problem if it arises. Ghiardia (beaver fever) is a big deal in AB especially in the spring and there are shots, but again, if you are willing to take the dog in when it gets the poops to get the meds that is a viable option. You decide which you'd rather risk and pay for.

What I did with this dog when I got her was get the puppy shots (for things she could actually catch where I live), individually with a week or so between them, and nothing after. No boosters and she's been fine (and her titers show she's not needing anything). Reality is diet is more important than anything and a dog fed right (no garbage kibble full of corn or wheat) will be healthy enough to fight pretty much any of the common things. If you hunt or know someone who does you might want to look at feeding raw or prey model to keep the pup really healthy.

Most of all don't assume. I assumed because the Calgary license asked for the date of the rabies vaccination it was mandatory.. I was wrong. It isn't at all here. It's also very low risk in Calgary but I am not sure about Med. Hat area.

Bordetella is another basic waster. It's like our flu shot in that it only has certain strains (of Kennel cough) in it and unless the dog is weak or has auto-immune problems, they basically get a cold. The cure is waiting about 6 days for it to go away and the best the shot really does is make it a milder case. If they do get bad case they get something similar to bronchitis which can require meds. My dog got bordetella once for some training place and low and behold she got a runny nose anyway and that is when my vet told me about it all. No bordetella for her anymore I can tell you, and she has never caught a cold since (I raw feed and credit it with her great health).

What you will find is there is a lot of controversy on the topic but if you do some research you will see what is and isn't necessary. If you pup is out of harms way until it's bigger that is half the battle. With all the snow and cold we have going, not much chance of her catching much right now other than a chill. BTW, if it's cold enough for you to need gloves, it's too cold for a puppy. They just don't have the fat stores needed to keep themselves warm like older dogs have so don't let her out very long in this weather, fur coat or not and make sure the garage is actually warm enough for her right now.

As for spaying, I think $200 - $300 would be on par. You would do well to shop around and ask about prices as they jump when the dog goes over a certain weight (I think the first jump is at 45 lbs but I may be off there). In Calgary you can pay $180 - $1000 depending on who you go to. The shinier the office, the bigger the bill usually, and paying more doesn't mean a better vet either. I have a great vet and he's probably one of the least expensive in town yet he's also one of the best if you ask pet owners. He just doesn't like to empty wallets and there are quite a few like that but you have to shop around, ask other pet owners, call each office and ask their basic prices for office visits, spays, shots. There is no reason to leave a dog overnight for a spay unless there is a problem. Usually you drop them off in the morning and pick them up in the afternoon and if a vet office tells you otherwise, they are focused more on wallets than care IMO.

BTW if she has to have shots to be spayed, have the shots done well in advance. You don't want her body trying to put up with the vaccines at the same time it's getting an operation. It's just more than is wise to do at one time on a little body like that. Meanwhile, if you call around, there are probably vets who have run into owners like myself and no longer require the shots first. Again, why do they need shots to have a spay? What's the logic there? I could maybe see it if there was a parvo dog in the clinic, but then if there was a parvo case in the clinic I wouldn't want my pup anywhere near it shot or not (and that parvo should be in a quarantined area anyway). I can't imagine why they need shots to be spayed. Maybe someone knows the reason because I can't think of one good one.

As for heartworm... well AB has had very few cases so far. You don't need the puppy tested, but you would probably be wise to get it the meds in the summer. If she has the meds her first year and the following years, she wouldn't ever need the blood tests some vets try and sell. My dog doesn't even get those any more as there have been no cases of heartworm in Calgary yet and she gets Revolution instead which stops a lot of problems. If I took her to an area with heartworm, I would get her the meds first though.

Here again, some vets try to suck you dry. You only need the meds for the month after the first adult mosquitoes surface (and 30 days after they are gone) and in AB that is usually June/July to Oct depending on our weather. I have heard of some people being told they have to buy some for 12 mos of the year and that is just insane in this climate.

Anyway, do look up vaccinosis and do really speak with the vet about what is required for Med. Hat. You are not interested in what is 'usually' given. You are only interested in what is in the best interest of the pup.

Thanks for the explanation. This helps alot

[Dustbunny]

I just found a site that explains (from a reasonable sounding vet for the most part) about vaccines that may help you when figuring out what to do. If you hit the home page he also has other articles he has written for pet owners on various conditions, surgeries, etc.

http://www.2ndchance.info/dogvacs.htm

[Spidey]

I just found a site that explains (from a reasonable sounding vet for the most part) about vaccines that may help you when figuring out what to do. If you hit the home page he also has other articles he has written for pet owners on various conditions, surgeries, etc.

http://www.2ndchance.info/dogvacs.htm

thanks, sounds good

[watching]

I just found a site that explains (from a reasonable sounding vet for the most part) about vaccines that may help you when figuring out what to do. If you hit the home page he also has other articles he has written for pet owners on various conditions, surgeries, etc.

http://www.2ndchance.info/dogvacs.htm

Very informative. Thanks. :)