Alberta - Alcohol and tobacco levy starts today, buy beer now!

[ZenOps]

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090407/CGY_Reax_SinTax_090407/20090407/?hub=CalgaryHome

"The cost of beer, liquor and cigarettes is going up starting at 12 a.m. on Wednesday.

The hike in price was announced Tuesday during the provincial budget.

A carton of cigarettes will increase by $3; beer will cost an extra $1.30 per case of 12; and a bottle of liquor will increase by $2.80.

The sin taxes are projected to bring in millions of dollars of revenue for the province.

The liquor tax hike alone is expected to generate $180-million each year."

They just announced it yesterday, you have about 3 1/2 hours at the time of this posting to get your sin on. I knew it couldn't last - pop is like half of what beer is now.

[cgtlky]

Both are bad to your health, TOBACCO cause CANCER. ALCOHOL too so

why bother to buy if they are bad to your health

[P1x44r]

Breathing air in will also kill you, so why bother doing that?

[JoeyB]

In Ontario we have a stupid law setting a minimum price
that a case of beer can sell for.
STUPID ANTI-FREE ENTERPRISE LAW! :mad:

[ullyeus]

Both are bad to your health, TOBACCO cause CANCER. ALCOHOL too so

why bother to buy if they are bad to your health

If you haven't figured out yet why some people choose to drink or smoke you need to...I was going to say go back to school...but maybe in your case...back to the womb?

[ullyeus]

In Ontario we have a stupid law setting a minimum price
that a case of beer can sell for.
STUPID ANTI-FREE ENTERPRISE LAW! :mad:

I think every province has that...don't we?

[bokep]

Both are bad to your health, TOBACCO cause CANCER. ALCOHOL too so

why bother to buy if they are bad to your health

Well if you go outside there's a chance that you might get hit by a stray bullet and die. I think you shouldn't leave your house.

[ZenOps]

Alberta was partially de-regulated a while ago.

Notes:

RCSS liquorstore has PC branded beer $5.49 for a sixpack.

Kokanee $8.99 for an 8-pack.

Don't hoard the Calgary south stores of Kokanee - I can't make it there until 11.

[CozmikDebris]

Taxes should be even higher. You're the ones who get the cancers more than the average person so why not pay for the services you will be demanding when you're sick from lung cancer or liver malfunction. It only makes sense to make the people pay for the services they require after exposing themselves to toxins and being warned not to for years and years.

I see a 12 dollar pack of smokes in the not too distant future. What are they at now?

[halo five]

Wait, wasn't Alberta flush with money and handing out cheques to everyone a little while back? Did the oil sands dry up that quickly?

Also,


Both are bad to your health, TOBACCO cause CANCER. ALCOHOL too so

why bother to buy if they are bad to your health

Seriously, all the motherboards and CostCo garbage we buy on here are pumping so much pollution into the atmosphere you can't honestly be complaining about someone having a beer. Christ.

[Byrns]

Taxes should be even higher. You're the ones who get the cancers more than the average person so why not pay for the services you will be demanding when you're sick from lung cancer or liver malfunction. It only makes sense to make the people pay for the services they require after exposing themselves to toxins and being warned not to for years and years.

I see a 12 dollar pack of smokes in the not too distant future. What are they at now?

Actually since people die sooner they're actually saving us all money. How much money do you think we save if someone lives 10 years less. (Nursing homes, government services, other diseases they may get, etc.)

[slowtyper]

Actually since people die sooner they're actually saving us all money. How much money do you think we save if someone lives 10 years less. (Nursing homes, government services, other diseases they may get, etc.)

The amount of money spent in healthcare probably outweighs that.

[smithfan]

Taxes should be even higher. You're the ones who get the cancers more than the average person so why not pay for the services you will be demanding when you're sick from lung cancer or liver malfunction. It only makes sense to make the people pay for the services they require after exposing themselves to toxins and being warned not to for years and years.

I see a 12 dollar pack of smokes in the not too distant future. What are they at now?

The problem with jacking up the tax on smokes\booze too much is that people just stop buying them at the store and get them on the grey market and the government makes nothing off it & instead it all goes to organized crime. Damned if you do damned if you don't.

[BornRuff]

Actually since people die sooner they're actually saving us all money. How much money do you think we save if someone lives 10 years less. (Nursing homes, government services, other diseases they may get, etc.)

Overall, people being less healthy is a bad thing for our economy.

It's not just people dieing, if people are sick, they miss work, become less productive, and use more health care services. The loss of productivity is in many cases the largest cost to our government.

About dieing young of something like cancer of liver failure vs. dieing of old age, it is very hard to make the call on what costs more because it is very dependent on each case. The older person may need a large amount of care, but it is fairly standardized care and lower cost care overall. People who get cancer when they are say, 45, will receive very expensive and specialized treatment. You have to factor in that the older person was able to pay taxes for much longer.

I think if you compare the total cost of someone dieing young from cancer(a few years of expensive specialized medical care and loss of the income they would have generated over the rest of their life), I would guess it would be less than providing medical care for a healthy adult until they are 80. I would need to find some more research on this though.

[ZenOps]

To put things into perspective Obama has pledged to lift a 47 year trade ban on Cuba.

Cuba has two main exports - Cigars and Rum. The price of a black market Cuban cigar (Montecristo - yummy) will probably drop to 1/3rd the current price in the US.

I think Stelmach has got this idea ass backward - in a time of economic woe - you do not place extra taxes on the working mans luxury - beer. If anything - you make it more available.

Protectionist pricing schemes are not good for the overall economy. Sure it might help locally a tiny tiny bit in healthcare and minor revenue source - but its the wrong way to go. Would Stelmach really rather have an actual war instead of a price war to keep money flowing?

BTW: RCSS just placed a limit of 3 pallets on the Kokanee, and the manager said that they would probably not be able to get the guy to program their tills until tomorrow, so you may luck out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallet#North_American_pallets

I bet they did not factor in the increased smuggling % when they said $180 million per year from beer. If smuggling beer over the border increases 50%, then Alberta will actually be losing alcohol revenue from the new tax and greatly increasing the criminal element. Smugglers are probably waiting to kiss Stelmach on the lips right now.

Who is giving advice to the government nowadays? Rob Anders, rofl?

[CanadianMike]

Both are bad to your health, TOBACCO cause CANCER. ALCOHOL too so

why bother to buy if they are bad to your health
http://www.pspcrazy.com/images/news/image/FacePalm_picard.jpg

are you going to head over to the latest mcdonalds deal thread and crap in it as well? :rolleyes:

[PrettyMao]

Who is giving advice to the government nowadays? Rob Anders, rofl?

Haha that gave me a chuckle...

Unfortunately, I'm in that asshat's riding...

[Firebot]

Wait, wasn't Alberta flush with money and handing out cheques to everyone a little while back? Did the oil sands dry up that quickly?


Have you been sleeping under a rock the past 7 months? Oil sands currently aren't even profitable to take out of the ground.

[blainehamilton]

Sonofabitch. I skimmed the budget details tuesday but totally missed this.

Anyone know if Real Canadian Superstore has a flyer for the long weekend? I need to stock up on beer for the summer...



Have you been sleeping under a rock the past 7 months? Oil sands currently aren't even profitable to take out of the ground.

Oil Price Predictions and Break-Even Prices
(http://www.straightstocks.com/current-market-news/oil-price-predictions-and-break-even-prices/)

Oil Sands extraction is still profitable. $33 cost vs current price of $51 per barrel. The difference is oil isn't at $130+ like last year so the gung-ho no costs barred expansions aren't happening right now. Wait another year or two, inflation will push the price of oil back upwards of $70 a barrel, and it will be business as usual in Alberta...

[Ovechkin]

Well if you go outside there's a chance that you might get hit by a stray bullet and die. I think you shouldn't leave your house.

i dont think he leaves his house anyway

[DLFB]

$3/pack is OD...but that ain't stoppin' smokers.

that's going to make people smuggle smokes from down south.

[laptop-tech]

Both are bad to your health, TOBACCO cause CANCER. ALCOHOL too so

why bother to buy if they are bad to your health

Dont forget SEX.

[abu_sme]

All of the revenue gained is going to be offset by smuggling and the increased costs of enforcement. Ontario has tried this once, it will happen again here too.

[BornRuff]

I bet they did not factor in the increased smuggling % when they said $180 million per year from beer. If smuggling beer over the border increases 50%, then Alberta will actually be losing alcohol revenue from the new tax and greatly increasing the criminal element. Smugglers are probably waiting to kiss Stelmach on the lips right now.

Who is giving advice to the government nowadays? Rob Anders, rofl?


All of the revenue gained is going to be offset by smuggling and the increased costs of enforcement. Ontario has tried this once, it will happen again here too.

I think that you guys are drastically over estimating the effects of the tax. The tax works out to be a bit over 10 cents per drink. If you have about one drink a day(or drink heavily once a week), your only going to be spending about $35 more per year.

That amount is really not enough to make the average person turn to the black market.

It sounds like you guys still have fairly low prices compared to the rest of the country, so be happy about that.

[ZenOps]

I think that you guys are drastically over estimating the effects of the tax. The tax works out to be a bit over 10 cents per drink. If you have about one drink a day(or drink heavily once a week), your only going to be spending about $35 more per year.

That amount is really not enough to make the average person turn to the black market.

It sounds like you guys still have fairly low prices compared to the rest of the country, so be happy about that.

What makes you think people aren't already buying from the black market. Its too expensive already.

Indian plain tobacco (native Canadian) is very lucrative, it does not match the major brand makers, but in Canada - they do make an incredibly tidy sum (much like the native casinos, because they don't pay tax.) If they raise tobacco up, and the US opens trade with Cuba, it might not be too long before an over the counter cigarette cost 3x what a black market one does (its already 2x)

Tobacco is already over 50% tax before this latest hike. Not sure what alcohol was - but you can get some stuff for half price if you simply cross the border (thats not even counting anything illegally coming from say Cuba at even lower pricing) So alcohol is also at least 50% tax.

Mexico is what $8 for 12 Coronas now? Thats easily 3x less than what someone would pay in Ontario.

At that price - and considering the economic strain people are under - it will "turn" many to the darkside. The transition to the dark side is easy - but they rarely return to the light be forewarned young padawan ;P

BUT: Calgary and Edmonton crime rates are unlikely to increase much. If history is any indicator, its the port cities where the crime starts going up - So Vancouver will probably be hit hard. During the prohibition days - it was New York (port city) where the mobsters were making more than the government.

[M-e-X-x]

dammit, the price of my livelihood in calgary has increased :(

[halo five]

Have you been sleeping under a rock the past 7 months? Oil sands currently aren't even profitable to take out of the ground.

Nah, just live in Toronto and don't pay attention to anything that happens more than 3 blocks from me ;) J/K, go flames, and all that :-0

[BornRuff]

What makes you think people aren't already buying from the black market. Its too expensive already.

Indian plain tobacco (native Canadian) is very lucrative, it does not match the major brand makers, but in Canada - they do make an incredibly tidy sum (much like the native casinos, because they don't pay tax.) If they raise tobacco up, and the US opens trade with Cuba, it might not be too long before an over the counter cigarette cost 3x what a black market one does (its already 2x)

Tobacco is already over 50% tax before this latest hike. Not sure what alcohol was - but you can get some stuff for half price if you simply cross the border (thats not even counting anything illegally coming from say Cuba at even lower pricing) So alcohol is also at least 50% tax.

Mexico is what $8 for 12 Coronas now? Thats easily 3x less than what someone would pay in Ontario.

At that price - and considering the economic strain people are under - it will "turn" many to the darkside. The transition to the dark side is easy - but they rarely return to the light be forewarned young padawan ;P

BUT: Calgary and Edmonton crime rates are unlikely to increase much. If history is any indicator, its the port cities where the crime starts going up - So Vancouver will probably be hit hard. During the prohibition days - it was New York (port city) where the mobsters were making more than the government.

I didn't say that nobody was buying from the black market right now.

The basis of your argument is that this new tax will cause a significant change in the number of people who choose to buy stuff on the black market. For all intents and purposes in this discussion, it doesn't matter if 90% of the population is buying from the black market right now. The current numbers are not the issue, it is how those will change because of the tax. If the numbers from the province are based on what they are selling now, any discrepencies would come from a change from the number of people currently buying from the province.

It seems logical that the people who are buying from the province right now do not see the current level of tax high enough to make them want to buy from the black market. If they did, they would already be buying from the black market.

The quesiton comes down to how sensitive you think people are to a change in price. It is probably bad to ask this to a RDFer, but do you think that $30-$40 more a year is enough to influence you the average person to want to start breaking the law and open themselves up to fines and prosecution?

Also, btw, why would more legal trade between the US and Cuba affect the black market prices in Canada? Canada already trades with CUBA, but I don't think legal trade is really an issue with this since we are talking about a practice that will be just as illegal before and after the US opens up trade with Cuba.

[Spidey]

Both are bad to your health, TOBACCO cause CANCER. ALCOHOL too so

why bother to buy if they are bad to your health

BECAUSE I LIKE TO DRINK BEER.

Plus alcohol in moderation isnt bad for your health, its good for you

[ericlin0122]

why drive if driving can cause accident?