engineers switching to finance !?

[ffpsy4]

Hi Its my first post here !!:cheesygri
so I am a third year civil eng student (bachelor)
I need to choose my specialisation for next year (transportation, environmental, structural ...) but I am really not the technical type of a guy. I do not enjoy engineering, I am doing an internship in an engineering firm and ... I'd rather work in finance.
I am interested in project evaluation, risk management, project management, real estate, ...
I was interested in doing an MBA (a cfa too if I have time and enough knowledge) but for that I need experience.

So first I wanted to know how could i manage my switching before graduation, I was thinking to specialize in transportation for my bachelor because it involves more general stuff like planing, operation management, system engineering, ... does it make any sense? And why not do a minor in management ?
Also after graduation how does it work, I am familiar with the French system where they hire engineers by all types of companies to do non-technical jobs (aka management & finance) what about canada how is it ? I've heard some banks and insurance companies hire engineer, what kind of people are they looking for ? Is it possible to start in an engineering company and not do any technical job ? I am not going to wait 5 years before getting enough experience to go in project management...

Also Do you guys know any masters that would be appropriate for my background and eventualy set me in what I am interested in (even outside Canada), I have quiet solid grades...

Cheers

[PrettyMao]

One suggestion for you if you finish your B.Eng is to get a job as a project engineer. Some companies (such as mine) let fresh grads or EITs with only one or two years experience become project engineers.

What does a project engineer do? Well, they are not quite project managers, but they do a lot of paper pushing, reviewing documents, tracking down information, and communicating with clients (as the middle man). They don't really do anything technical. Basically, they are engineering secretaries that help move the project along. How that type experience gets them their P.Eng. I don't know...

It is usually preferred that a project engineer have a fair amount of technical experience so that they can understand the technical aspects of a project, but at my company this is not the case. So instead you have these ******* pushing you to finish a project in 2 weeks when in fact it probably takes 2 months. Or they are signing off on documents that they don't really understant. That's not to say all of them do this (my current project engineer actually understands what is going on and has been really helpful), but when you are on a project with one of the bad eggs it can be really frustrating, especially when they start asking for outrageous deadlines in front of the client.

In any case, this role will help you avoid the technical stuff (not that transportation engineering is that technical) and it will probably get you into upper management quicker.

[nameh]

get your masters in financial engineering, you'll get the best of both world :razz:

[mike24]

Finish your engineering degree. Try to find a job in your field, it's not bad being an EIT. If you can, intern at a large consulting company and get good references. This will help you in securing a good position later on. I would say that engineering is more interesting than accounting or financial management. Trying to figure out what account goes where on a BS sheet would make me go crazy.

Large companies also sponsor MBA's and additional graduate studies. That's not bad, considering that you will save yourself $80k and increase the chances of job security. Others will have to get into more debt to receive additional credentials.

[smolek]

in b4 pitz :cheesygri

[ffpsy4]

-master in financial engineering ... thats intense haha
I though it was made for quants only

-yeah project engineering does not sound too bad, but mike24 if I posted this cuz I know i dont want work in the field, I'd rather do something I like its not only for the money that I am doing this ...

-You guys think a more direct approach is possible ? Applying directly to a master in finance or somethin similar
Or is there some masters in project management ??

[nameh]

-master in financial engineering ... thats intense haha
I though it was made for quants only

-yeah project engineering does not sound too bad, but mike24 if I posted this cuz I know i dont want work in the field, I'd rather do something I like its not only for the money that I am doing this ...

-You guys think a more direct approach is possible ? Applying directly to a master in finance or somethin similar
Or is there some masters in project management ?? Try getting some engineering experience, because once you're out for a few years, there is no coming back. There are other ways that you can step into finance without having to go all out. You don't need a direct approach, that wold be way too risky. I would say get into the engineering field, get your feet wet, and then explore a non direct option. Possibly an MBA or a CFA...just don't let your engineering degree go to waste.....

[drey2k]

An MBA is a very regular transition into Finance for engineers...

[adehbone]

OP,

You seem a bit confused. Risk Management, Real Estate, Project Evaluation are extremely broad terms. Each require to take totally different tests/paths etc...

Like if you want to work in Risk, you would have to do a CFA/FRM early on while also considering a CAIA.

Real Estate, not sure what you mean as a REIT, Appraisial, Commercial Finance?

Project Evaluation, what do you mean in terms with finance, like working for the government? Working for Petro Canada in Asset Managment? etc..

I would say pick up a Vault Guide with an overview of finance careers. You need to narrow down what your interested in, your skills etc a bit more. As well ofcourse your work experience/grades.

[pcpchan]

Not to sound harsh, but I don't get why fresh engineering grad like to do project management or wants to be in project management field? They believe they can properly manage a project "just" with the technical skill from their internships, sealing a million dollar project under strict deadlines? How can you possibly manage a project if you don't understand all the technical aspects of the project? Just because you know how to run microsoft project??

Getting technical experience is not bad and you will eventually move up to do project management type of stuff (bidding project, contacting clients, preparing proposals, etc....)

I have known many people that graduate from engineering and doesn't want to be have engineering career. Having an MBA and engineering degree does not guarantee your income in this economy today.

[ffpsy4]

OP,

You seem a bit confused. Risk Management, Real Estate, Project Evaluation are extremely broad terms. Each require to take totally different tests/paths etc...

Like if you want to work in Risk, you would have to do a CFA/FRM early on while also considering a CAIA.

Real Estate, not sure what you mean as a REIT, Appraisial, Commercial Finance?

Project Evaluation, what do you mean in terms with finance, like working for the government? Working for Petro Canada in Asset Managment? etc..

I would say pick up a Vault Guide with an overview of finance careers. You need to narrow down what your interested in, your skills etc a bit more. As well ofcourse your work experience/grades.

Thats very true !! I have to narrow down my interests. I am trying to track down information on uni's websites, I am gonna take a look at the Vault Guide, any other suggestion to learn more about the different careers?
What I meant by project evaluation - maybe i am not using the right term - is that I am interested in the whole process of knowing if a project is viable... and that could be applied to real estate (see if your gonna make money out by building three 40 storeys buildings) and risk management (risk that something goes wrong, ..) thats is why I mentionned it too... I do not the terms at all ... haha sorry if it sounds a bit ignorant

CFA might be a good path, a master education might be necessary to be able to get level 2 and 3, I mean having enought maturity and knowledge in finance....maybe after the mba or during the mba ?

PCPCHAN, I know that eventualy starting a technical careeer will get me in management but I really dont feel like waiting and waisting years when I could start right off, that is why I am not necessarly attached to the idea of working with an engineering firm. .. working for 8 to 5 in something you dislike is the worst thing ever. ...
I do not want see another equation after graduation haha but yeah I am pretty sure I went into the wrong major (pressure by parents) , but now I am almost done so what ever less see how it can turn out

nameh, what kind of position could I get in engineering firms that could be less technical, I know its possible but I lack precise information

[yeungman]

Not to sound harsh, but I don't get why fresh engineering grad like to do project management or wants to be in project management field? They believe they can properly manage a project "just" with the technical skill from their internships, sealing a million dollar project under strict deadlines? How can you possibly manage a project if you don't understand all the technical aspects of the project? Just because you know how to run microsoft project??

Getting technical experience is not bad and you will eventually move up to do project management type of stuff (bidding project, contacting clients, preparing proposals, etc....)

I have known many people that graduate from engineering and doesn't want to be have engineering career. Having an MBA and engineering degree does not guarantee your income in this economy today.
I knew that I wanted to go into project management when I graduated (Civil). I didn't want to be the head-down, chained to your desk design engineer; I wanted to manage projects. But there's a huge learning curve. You aren't expected to manage projects fresh out of school. Also, it's rare and surprisingly difficult for a design engineer to get into Project Management after working as a technical consultant for a few years. It's probably because the salary expectations are higher and your PM experience is limited. As a consultant, even if you're the project lead, you only deal with structural issues.

Here's my story; stop reading now if you don't want to get into the details: I started with a concrete subcontractor as a Project Coordinator, basically the paper pusher and learned about the trade and how projects move along.

Then, after about 6 months, I moved up to Project Engineer (EIT), where I did design, supervised by a senior engineer. This is where I gained design experience and learned all the nitty gritty & number crunching. I did all the design and my supervisor checked everything. While as a PE, I was given more and more management tasks, like team leading, scheduling and cost summaries.

After another 6 months, I started getting my own projects to manage, essentially transitioning from Project Engineer to a Junior Project Manager. Ya, the projects start out small, but the main thing is learning how to effectively manage projects. Once you learn to manage small projects, you get progressively larger ones. Within a year as junior PM, I was up to projects worth roughly $10 million with very little oversight. I was accountable for everything, from schedule to finance. If the project loses money, I'm responsible.

Now, I didn't want to get trapped in a specialized field for the rest of my career. So, around the 2 yr mark, I started looking into getting hired by General Contractors or Construction Managers. With the contacts that I had made while working as a junior PM for a subcontractor, it was easy for me to find a job with a big Construction Manager that builds hospitals, schools, shopping malls. I was back to being a Project Coordinator again, but I don't see it as a demotion because you need to know so much more as a GC. And, I got a pay raise :cheesygri.

Think of it this way: Project Manager with a Subcontractor = Big responsibility; small scope. Project Coordinator with a Gen. Contractor = Fewer Responsibilities; MASSIVE scope. Right now, I'm a coordinator for a huge project: approx $300 Million.

Starting out with a subcontractor gave me a HUGE leg up over the other coordinators that started with the GC right out of school. In about 4 years, I'll get to be PM for my own projects. So, I'm on the PM career path, but the other option after being a Coordinator is to go into Project Development. These are the guys that go and GET the projects and deal with RFPs, Tenders, Bids, Project Evaluation, Risk Assessment.

[Churo1]

WTF @ above posts. Project managers also spend a lot of time at the desk FYI. Betting that you are still a student regardless of what you claim.

[Churo1]

Also you sound overexcited about a very underwhelming field, similar to most engineering undergrads. Don't worry though you will see the light one day.

[yeungman]

Also you sound overexcited about a very underwhelming field, similar to most engineering undergrads. Don't worry though you will see the light one day.
I won't apologize for actually liking my work. I wake up everyday refreshed and ready to meet the challenges on-site. Does looking at RFIs; shop drawings and endless change requests get boring, sure it does, but that's only part of what I do. I'd say I'm at my desk 60% of the time. The rest of the time is spent walking the site; helping the team solve the inevitable issues that arise; or in meetings with the consultants, the trades or the owner's reps. But for ME, the crux of it is that I'm not stuck at my desk crunching numbers all day. That's just not ME. But what I do now fits MY personality. I never said, nor was this meant to be true for everyone. You may truly believe that Project Management is an underwhelming field, and many others may agree. But there are worse, much less enjoyable ways to earn money to pay the bills. But "enjoyable" is subjective anyway and varies drastically from person-to-person. The bottom line is that my career works for ME.

I don't have to prove to you or anyone else. I'm happy with the career path I've chosen. Am I still young? Ya, it's only been 3 years since I graduated and I could still be in some confused, perpetually happy daze. But I'd rather be happy doing this for 8.5hrs a day than miserable doing something I loathe. All I did was share my story and leave it to whomever reads it to take it for what it is: an example. To each man his own.

Care to share your story?

[Churo1]

I won't apologize for actually liking my work. I wake up everyday refreshed and ready to meet the challenges on-site. Does looking at RFIs; shop drawings and endless change requests get boring, sure it does, but that's only part of what I do. I'd say I'm at my desk 60% of the time. The rest of the time is spent walking the site; helping the team solve the inevitable issues that arise; or in meetings with the consultants, the trades or the owner's reps. But for ME, the crux of it is that I'm not stuck at my desk crunching numbers all day. That's just not ME. But what I do now fits MY personality. I never said, nor was this meant to be true for everyone. You may truly believe that Project Management is an underwhelming field, and many others may agree. But there are worse, much less enjoyable ways to earn money to pay the bills. But "enjoyable" is subjective anyway and varies drastically from person-to-person. The bottom line is that my career works for ME.

I don't have to prove to you or anyone else. I'm happy with the career path I've chosen. Am I still young? Ya, it's only been 3 years since I graduated and I could still be in some confused, perpetually happy daze. But I'd rather be happy doing this for 8.5hrs a day than miserable doing something I loathe. All I did was share my story and leave it to whomever reads it to take it for what it is: an example. To each man his own.

Care to share your story?

I work in consulting engineering. It is very similar to Dilbert and the movie Office Space as is every other office type engineering business I've heard about. Also why is your team out on the site all the time? The team I work in doing projects for the manager is usually in the office 98% of the time. The project managers who work at my company spend most days in the office. Why would the be out all day with the contractors? Doesn't make sense.

[yeungman]

I work for the Construction Manager of a large construction job. We subcontract the construction to trades while we manage the scheduling & costing. Essentially, we're the builders (but we don't actually do any construction because we've subbed it all out). You'll notice the difference between a Construction Manager and a General Contractor. It's just the way the contract and scope of work is setup and my company does both CM & GC depending on the project.

The consultants each have their own project leader (or project manager) and yes, they work out of their office 99% of the time.

I'm guessing that we were talking about two COMPLETELY different project management roles. The one you must be thinking of is the Consultant Project Manager, who manages their design team but deals only with issues specific to his/her specialty (architect, structural, mechanical, etc...). In many cases, the consulting PM is just the most senior (experienced) team member. This is probably why you feel it's so underwhelming, since you're still the design engineer, just with a fancy title. It's just another step in the ladder, moving up in the engineering firm.

The role that I'm talking about and the career track that I'm currently on, is the role of the General Builder. We're the guys that figure out how to build everything and then execute the construction activities. Where consultants need to know everything about their specialty, the builder needs to know a little about everything (excavation, blasting, structural elements, elevators, glazing, cladding, roofing, TI (Tenant Improvement), plumbing, civil sewer & water lines, etc...). The builder needs to know how it all joins together.

For example, on the project that I'm working on, our full-time on-site staff consists of a Project Director, Project Manager, Superintendents, Estimator, Project Coordinators (me). Also, the project is so big that there are also full-time representatives from the architectural and structural engineering consultants on-site as well. Both my bosses, the Project Director & Project Manager are professional engineers. But neither of them have ever professionally designed anything or used their stamp. But at the same time, neither of them would have made it to their position in the time that they did if they didn't have an Engineering degree.

Where consultants work in cubicles and are at their desks doing design (or reviewing shop drawings / RFIs) most of the day, our project team is out there managing the trades and making sure all the pieces that we've subcontracted fit together and everything gets built on schedule. Some people like working in consulting. I found out really early, while still in university, that design engineering was NOT for me. So, I decided to pursue a career in Project Management with the ultimate goal of being a Project Manager for a Construction Manager or General Contractor with my own site some day. Hopefully, I'll achieve that goal in a few years.

[steevee]

OP, do you even know what "finance" is?

[sardaukar]

OP, do you even know what "finance" is?

I am guessing no :D

[petergriffin]

There's a career & a master's degree called financial engineers & financial engineering. I don't know much about it though, but I think it requires a lot of math instead of physics.

[ffpsy4]

So, I'm on the PM career path, but the other option after being a Coordinator is to go into Project Development. These are the guys that go and GET the projects and deal with RFPs, Tenders, Bids, Project Evaluation, Risk Assessment.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge !!

I still got some questions

How do you think is the best way to go into project development straight out after graduation ??
Do you think it matters the specilialization during the bachelor, I guess you specialized in structural ? What do you think of transportation, is it going to put me in a dead end where I will be able to work only for a few companies ?

Also do you think its possible to skip the design job you had as a project engineer ...
I was thinking about taking project management classes at the b-school at my uni (McGill)

thanks a lot !!
CHEERS

[ffpsy4]

There's a career & a master's degree called financial engineers & financial engineering. I don't know much about it though, but I think it requires a lot of math instead of physics.


Financial engineer from what I know is a quantitative approach to finance through intense finance modeling it requires a lot of physics/math knowledge (PhD very often) and heavy programming

Hummm I'd rather do technical engineering than this