Toronto on hook for extra $400M in streetcar deal with no federal funding

[champlinD]

Nice Comrade Miller.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/06/25/toronto-councillors.html

"The City of Toronto says it will have to reallocate more than $400 million to pay for a new streetcar deal after the federal government denied funding that share."


CTV:New funding plan proposed for streetcar purchase (http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090625/toronto_streetcars_090625/20090625/?hub=TorontoNewHome)

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20090424/160_toronto_streetcar.jpg

[solarflare600]

all the 203 fines can help pay for this :D

[WontonTiger]

Toronto is going to go bankrupt. We'll be known as LA North.

[jstaneon]

So if they dont get the extra $400M, do the streetcars go on strike?

[7jaii]

T.O.'s application never qualified for Fed's infrastruction program. Worse, the T.O. beaurocrats screwed up the application and MISSED the deadline.

How anyone blames the Feds (regardless of party) is beyond me. Toronto Council drops the ball on everything and we bend over and take it. Fees on this and that...next they'll charge you for breathing.

[user01]

After Miller was elected as a mayor, he has been having a lot of problems with his position. May we please replace him back for Mel Lastman or someone who can do the job properly! :evil:

[moxy]

I still don't understand why they're throwing money into new streetcars when they could rebuild the old ones like they did with the buses.

[ferkel]

miller will win again in 2012 a third time

i never voted for him.. but the stupid people keep voting for him

[ndrew029]

After Miller was promoted as a mayor, he has been having a lot of problems with his position. May we please replace him back for Mel Lastman or someone who can do the job properly! :evil:

Miller wasn't promoted as mayor...that would suggest he could also be fired as mayor (much to my delight). He was elected by the majority of Torontonians. I just hope that we don't have a short term memory when it comes to this baffoon and vote him out of office the next chance we get.

Seriously, Adam West and Diamond Joe Quimby are less of a joke than Miller.

[winner2000]

miller will win again in 2012 a third time

i never voted for him.. but the stupid people keep voting for him

I personally doubt it. I think people are starting to realize how the city has gone straight DOWNHILL since he was elected. Even his biggest fans will find it tough to defend his policies. We need a Mel Lastman-esque mayor to make some tough decisions and fix our city quickly, before it becomes too late. IMO, of course...

[jstaneon]

miller will win again in 2012 a third time

i never voted for him.. but the stupid union people keep voting for him

fixed

[M-e-X-x]

T.O.'s application never qualified for Fed's infrastruction program. Worse, the T.O. beaurocrats screwed up the application and MISSED the deadline.

How anyone blames the Feds (regardless of party) is beyond me. Toronto Council drops the ball on everything and we bend over and take it. Fees on this and that...next they'll charge you for breathing.

Regardless if they submitted on time and correctly, the feds still wouldn't pay out... We got Cons in control afterall...

[Peckerwood]

Ipsos Reid Poll finds that John Tory would beat David Miller (http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2009/06/25/john-tory-would-beat-david-miller-ipsos-reid-poll-finds.aspx)

As for the Union comment "fixed", it reminds me of a quote: "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury"

[ricoboxing]

Ipsos Reid Poll finds that John Tory would beat David Miller (http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2009/06/25/john-tory-would-beat-david-miller-ipsos-reid-poll-finds.aspx)

Barney Rebel would beat David Miller.

Actually on second thought, the only people that actually show up to vote are David Miller supporters, so he'll probably be re-elected.

[appleb]

Apparently the federal government didn't want to give any money because one requirement of the funding is to show the money spent would generate jobs. The TTC will say they will generate the 400 million itself, then the city will shrink 400 million in construction projects and give it to the TTC, and then the city will beg the federal government for 400 million to fund construction projects instead, since it now generates jobs.

[thelefteyeguy]

the city needs the jobs...not sure the stats in the GTA but Ontario is hurting

Miller just doesnt understand

F Miller

[adeel]

Apparently the federal government didn't want to give any money because one requirement of the funding is to show the money spent would generate jobs. The TTC will say they will generate the 400 million itself, then the city will shrink 400 million in construction projects and give it to the TTC, and then the city will beg the federal government for 400 million to fund construction projects instead, since it now generates jobs.

How stupid do the mayor and council have to be that they couldn't figure out to do this before getting into this skirmish with the feds...anyone with a bit of smarts would realize they could have 'shifted' capital funds for the ttc streetcars and then submitted the eligible projects they diverted funding from to the government....why T.O. submitted a single application for something that they almost certainly knew would not be accepted is baffling...

[asdfvcx]

It wouldn't surprise me if this is all politics. The city knows it was unlikely to get funds from the feds infrastructure funds, because this isn't the type of project the feds are looking to fund with it. (They want quicker projects.)

But they know this will apply additional pressure to the striking union to accept a smaller settlement. Then later they will apply to the proper funding agency, and I expect have a good shot of getting the funding.

With an election likely within the next 12 months and Harper doing so badly with Quebec, he's going to have to go after the Toronto vote. Once the strike is settled, I expect there will be a good chance the funding will be announced before the next election.

[user01]

Miller wasn't promoted as mayor...that would suggest he could also be fired as mayor (much to my delight). He was elected by the majority of Torontonians. I just hope that we don't have a short term memory when it comes to this baffoon and vote him out of office the next chance we get.

Seriously, Adam West and Diamond Joe Quimby are less of a joke than Miller.

Sorry, I mean elected. I probably wasn't thinking the right word. Probably have to do with the heat... :evil:

[Winkle]

As much as I hate Harper and Baird, I have to agree, hard to fault them for this fiasco.

Massive fail on Toronto and TTC for working out a massive deal involving huge amounts of Federal money WITHOUT consulting the Feds first. WTF?

Also really makes you wonder, TTC is constantly announcing huge jumps in ridership numbers, and the old street cars have been around for 30+ years, you'll think the old cars would have made enough money for the TTC by now for TTC to fund their replacements by themselves.

[nalababe]

After Miller was elected as a mayor, he has been having a lot of problems with his position. May we please replace him back for Mel Lastman or someone who can do the job properly! :evil:

Mel was a joke in power locally and ridiculed internationally.

Mel built a subway to nowhere because it was in his former constituency and mothballed the Eglinton Subway that was desperately needed. This has ended up costing Toronto billions.

[nalababe]

More people should organize a movement to have John Tory run for Mayor. He's the only person who can save Toronto.

While not perfect, I wouldn't say that it needs saving.

John Tory is a complete failure in politics and the reality is that a rightwing Mayor would have trouble ascending to power in Toronto.

[nalababe]

How stupid do the mayor and council have to be that they couldn't figure out to do this before getting into this skirmish with the feds...anyone with a bit of smarts would realize they could have 'shifted' capital funds for the ttc streetcars and then submitted the eligible projects they diverted funding from to the government....why T.O. submitted a single application for something that they almost certainly knew would not be accepted is baffling...

Actually major companies have screwed up even bigger deals and RFP responses. It depends on how strict the interpretation is in many instances.

[Frankie3s]

Pretty embarrassing when the mayor has to call the head of the union to ask them not to picket at the convention center so they can vote on creating more jobs for unionized workers,

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/656990

The mayor/council originally didn't want to cross the picket lines at City Hall and so they are meeting at the convention center instead (and pay to rent space at the convention center too as an added kick in the face to tax payers).

Makes you wonder who's running the city?

[smolek]

John Tory is a complete failure in politics and the reality is that a rightwing Mayor would have trouble ascending to power in Toronto.If any "right-winger" has a chance at power in this city, it would be him...he's quite centrist

[WontonTiger]

Actually major companies have screwed up even bigger deals and RFP responses. It depends on how strict the interpretation is in many instances.

What's your point? RFP responses?

Why could ever other city in Canada handle it, when Toronto apparently couldn't?

John Tory is too intelligent to be successful in Toronto. You need to know how to pander to the masses, and that isn't his specialty. Pragmatic thinkers are not welcome in Toronto.

[jameswong]

I want Hazel to be Toronto Mayor.

[Winkle]

Whats with all the love for John Tory?

He seems to be an alright guy, but he has had so little experience in politics and government... why do people all of a sudden think he can run a province/Canada's largest city better then everyone else who has come before him?

I got nothing against him, and I'm not saying he's going to suck if elected, but merely that he has done nothing to show that he will be great at the job.

[M-e-X-x]

Apparently the federal government didn't want to give any money because one requirement of the funding is to show the money spent would generate jobs. The TTC will say they will generate the 400 million itself, then the city will shrink 400 million in construction projects and give it to the TTC, and then the city will beg the federal government for 400 million to fund construction projects instead, since it now generates jobs.

It isn't good enough that 15000 jobs would be saved in Thunder Bay where they plan to build the cars?

In terms of Toronto, then it keeps people, goods, and information flowing more efficiently than ever?

[WontonTiger]

It isn't good enough that 15000 jobs would be saved in Thunder Bay where they plan to build the cars?

In terms of Toronto, then it keeps people, goods, and information flowing more efficiently than ever?

Where did you get 15,000 jobs from? I had earlier read that it was less than 1000 jobs. The only local impact felt would be some more public workers (yah, we need more of those). Rather than fund public/private infrastructure and collect real tax revenue (private workers), they wanted to outsource our crop of the jobs 10 hours from here, and then force the rest of the workers into the TTC. Miller was trying to shore up his voting base.

John Tory ran Rogers very well. He has nothing but glowing reviews from many figureheads in the community. Each of his losses were due to negative spin by his opponents. If he had a fair shake, he'd be running things properly.

[Winkle]

John Tory ran Rogers very well. He has nothing but glowing reviews from many figureheads in the community. Each of his losses were due to negative spin by his opponents. If he had a fair shake, he'd be running things properly.

Again, based on what?

I'm not trashing Tory, I'm just pointing out that he has no experience working in government and running a city/province. Running a public office is hugely different from running a private company and he has done nothing to indicate that he would do a better job then Miller or his other opponents in public office.

[originalnutta]

So the council approved the streetcar deal?

[konfusion666]

Whats with all the love for John Tory?

He seems to be an alright guy, but he has had so little experience in politics and government... why do people all of a sudden think he can run a province/Canada's largest city better then everyone else who has come before him?

I got nothing against him, and I'm not saying he's going to suck if elected, but merely that he has done nothing to show that he will be great at the job.

You're right... all the "love" for John Tory is not based in fact, it's an emotional response by all the right-wing-biased amateur politicos on this forum. ;) Since the Politics forum was shut down, you only see these emotions bubble up in tangential threads like this one.

The reality is that John Tory is a Red Tory who would be more at home in McGuinty's or Ignatieff's Libs. Everyone saw how he essentially destroyed the Ontario PC Party. Nobody in that Party wants to have ANYTHING to do with him! And there's absolutely nothing "Conservative" about the guy either - hell, the guy barely has any common sense if you've been keeping up with his escapades ever since he left Corporate Canada. Which is why, Corporate Canada is probably the best place for him. He should go back to Rogers and work at making them more competitive with the "new" Bell. ;)

As for an alternative to Miller... there is none. Toronto is doomed. Mwahahaha!

[WontonTiger]

Again, based on what?

I'm not trashing Tory, I'm just pointing out that he has no experience working in government and running a city/province. Running a public office is hugely different from running a private company and he has done nothing to indicate that he would do a better job then Miller or his other opponents in public office.

You make good points.

In the end, I like his character above all else. He seems like the most decent person to approach politics in a while. I generally pride myself on my sense of people's character, and I really respect John Tory.

[kingfencer]

stupid miller raises tax each year cause he can't manage money. vehicle license fee, garbage bin fee, that freagin moron, i'll take mayor mel back.

[7jaii]

Pretty embarrassing when the mayor has to call the head of the union to ask them not to picket at the convention center so they can vote on creating more jobs for unionized workers,

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/656990

The mayor/council originally didn't want to cross the picket lines at City Hall and so they are meeting at the convention center instead (and pay to rent space at the convention center too as an added kick in the face to tax payers).

Makes you wonder who's running the city?


stupid miller raises tax each year cause he can't manage money. vehicle license fee, garbage bin fee, that freagin moron, i'll take mayor mel back.

Today was a farce. City of Toronto screwed up the infrastructure request, blames everyone but doesn't accept responsibility. Then today they come up with $MIL400 to cover the streetcar shortfall.

Remember when the city didn't have money for pools & libraries. Remember they cut services and jacked fees for everything? Remember crying poor and asking everyone to contribute? It must be Harper's fault!

Renting T.O. Convention Centre today for Miller's grand street car announcement costs $20,000! $20,000 when City Hall is open and non-union workers were at work. Miller was too scare to show his face at City Hall!

$20,000 pays for a lot of books. Pays for heating & electricity for shelters. A free breakfast for elementary kids. Our city council if filled with @ss.

Miller will haunt us forever: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2009/06/25/toronto-on-strike-david-miller-hands-keys-to-city-hall-to-the-union.aspx

[Beeg]

More people should organize a movement to have John Tory run for Mayor. He's the only person who can save Toronto.

I'm in. Let's do it.

[M-e-X-x]

Where did you get 15,000 jobs from? I had earlier read that it was less than 1000 jobs. The only local impact felt would be some more public workers (yah, we need more of those). Rather than fund public/private infrastructure and collect real tax revenue (private workers), they wanted to outsource our crop of the jobs 10 hours from here, and then force the rest of the workers into the TTC. Miller was trying to shore up his voting base.

John Tory ran Rogers very well. He has nothing but glowing reviews from many figureheads in the community. Each of his losses were due to negative spin by his opponents. If he had a fair shake, he'd be running things properly.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_35644.aspx

Sorry, I guess it's 15000 jobs in total. 1000 for Bombardier in Thunder Bay?

[LegiT]

Today was a farce. City of Toronto screwed up the infrastructure request, blames everyone but doesn't accept responsibility. Then today they come up with $MIL400 to cover the streetcar shortfall.

Remember when the city didn't have money for pools & libraries. Remember they cut services and jacked fees for everything? Remember crying poor and asking everyone to contribute? It must be Harper's fault!

Renting T.O. Convention Centre today for Miller's grand street car announcement costs $20,000! $20,000 when City Hall is open and non-union workers were at work. Miller was too scare to show his face at City Hall!

$20,000 pays for a lot of books. Pays for heating & electricity for shelters. A free breakfast for elementary kids. Our city council if filled with @ss.

Miller will haunt us forever: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2009/06/25/toronto-on-strike-david-miller-hands-keys-to-city-hall-to-the-union.aspx

lol...it's necessary to cut certain services as the city is unable to pay for it but his salary managed to increase quite nicely twice.

[Beeg]

Again, based on what?

I'm not trashing Tory, I'm just pointing out that he has no experience working in government and running a city/province. Running a public office is hugely different from running a private company and he has done nothing to indicate that he would do a better job then Miller or his other opponents in public office.
Compared to Miller, he's FDR.

Tory is a caring man, who also cares about efficiency and economics.

He would be a fine mayor.

He'd make sure that when the federal government offers money, he'll get the right forms in!:!:

[zaius]

i just love this quote from miller.

“This is probably my proudest moment as mayor of Toronto,’’ Mr. Miller said after an emergency council meeting, held at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre because of pickets at city hall. ‘‘We have just secured the transit future of this city for a generation.’’

[45ED]

i just love this quote from miller.

“This is probably my proudest moment as mayor of Toronto,’’ Mr. Miller said after an emergency council meeting, held at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre because of pickets at city hall. ‘‘We have just secured the transit future of this city for a generation.’’

It should be more like this: "We have just secured the transit future of this city for a generation...with money from a generation. Yes, from a generation, because that is how long it will take to pay off this project ... if we're lucky. Tax the future to pay for the present."

[Talamasca]

I want Hazel to be Toronto Mayor.

No, you can't have her. She's ours! :D

[mrfascination]

John Tory- Failed to become mayor, failed to become primier. Super
nice guy - Decent business man, but not suited for the polictal forum.

Mayor Miller - Is stuck on the idea of public transit, and bicycle paths..
But you never see him on either. Bicycle paths in a city where
the weather is cold for 6 months of the year, and 2 more months are
too hot.

Federal Support for the streetcars?.. Never! Harper would have
given the money if it were Calgary or Edmonton...

[LegiT]

John Tory- Failed to become mayor, failed to become primier. Super
nice guy - Decent business man, but not suited for the polictal forum.

Mayor Miller - Is stuck on the idea of public transit, and bicycle paths..
But you never see him on either. Bicycle paths in a city where
the weather is cold for 6 months of the year, and 2 more months are
too hot.

Federal Support for the streetcars?.. Never! Harper would have
given the money if it were Calgary or Edmonton...

Probably if they had done proper procedures.
Comrade Miller decided to paint bike lanes on Annette and Dupont (which is stupid considering Davenport is parallel with bike lanes and I have seen one or two bikers at most during rush hour). It's not as if traffic isn't already bad on Dupont during rush hour (Junction where Annette/Dupont/Dundas meets). Now it's gone from two lanes to one lane on Dupont.