in-ground pool install planning questions..

[mart242]

I am about to sign the paperwork to purchase an in-ground pool to be installed this season (through www.poolbuilders.ca) and have a few questions. Can anyone help? (I figure that I may as well do my own homework instead of believing pool companies..)

Due to zoning and pool location, I can't put a shed so my equipment (filter / pump / heater) will have to be on a concrete pad.

- I'm planning on going with a pro logic P4 panel and salt cell.
http://www.h2opoolproducts.com/product_info.php?products_id=1977
What's the best way to mount that? My house siding is vinyl so should I
a) cut an opening in the vinyl, put j-trims, install box and caulk?
b) put a j-bolt in the concrete, "socket" for a 4x4 post, 4x4 post and mount the panel on the post?
c) put the panel in the basement and route the wires outside in a PVC pipe.. the problem with that is the salt cell wire is only 15' long (and has some kind of special connector)
d) other?
I'm also thinking of buying the panel in the US since it's much cheaper. Anyone knows if the ones there are approved for use in Canada? The user manual mentions both canada and usa, the only difference being that the canadian panel has an extra ground lug..

- I'm thinking of doing the electrical myself. I'm an electrical engineer (working in electronics) and I wired my whole basement (lots of circuits) so doing it is no problem but the "how" is what concerns me.. Anyone knows of a good reference regarding pool bonding rules? The PS-Knight book (electrical code simplified) doesn't mention it since it's for house wiring only.. I figure that if I get it inspected it should be fine, unless part of the install has to be done by a licensed electrician? (ie: pool bonding?)

- For winter, do you guys use a regular in-ground pool tarp with water bag? Is a cover pump really needed? It seems like it wouldn't work out too well with the mix of ice / snow / rain we get in winter.. but the "safety covers" are much more expensive (and my pool will be fenced so I don't care about the safety part)

- Has anyone heated their in-ground pool with a solar system only? The way I see it, solar is efficient the days you don't need it.. ie: when it's hot and sunny. I guess it's a nice addition to save gas but a primary gas heater would still be needed since it's an inground pool.

- Are LED lights worth it? or are regular lights good enough? They are pricey enough.. 750$ / 2 lights!

- Any recommendation on a good quiet pump? I've heard the hayward superpump and it's LOUD!

- Any advice on things you wish you had done to your pool but now is too late to do?

[CaptSmethwick]

Pool pumps are noisy - you may find one that is slightly less so but it'll still probably be too loud... >:(

I personally would buy the salt cell locally - ours was fried by a lightning surge last summer and the manufacturer replaced the entire unit gratis as a goodwill gesture. Oh yeah, while I think of it, install surge protection on your system and a timer on your pump. Also, consider wiring your pump for 240v (although that's pretty basic advice).

As far as location goes, I'm having a hard time working up some advice here since I don't really "get" the configuration of your yard and where your equipment is going to be relative to your house or your pool. What I can say is that I would want the salt controls near the pool - because that's the most likely place I would go to make an adjustment after testing the water.

As far as protecting your equipment - I really recommend some kind of structure to keep the elements off your pump, filter, salt cell, etc. Besides, the equipment can be unsightly - and noisy. Can you even have a small 3'x4'x4' structure? (Something like this: http://www.safeside.com.au/home.html ). It would need heat ventilation but that shouldn't be a problem.

Heater: if you have a lot of sun in your yard, solar is a good option. You may wish to also have a heater, though - depending on how much you like to swim in April and May (we do).

Winter cover: consider getting a safety cover http://www.poolsafety.ca/mesh-safety-covers.htm. We've had one for the past 5 years and we'll never go back to the traditional cover. They're pricey but, IMO, worth it - and you don't worry about your kids or animals falling in.

We didn't go with LED lights and are still not tempted.

Other advice: figure out ahead of time where you're going to put your solar blanket reel - ideally, you could build in a bench with an opening front that allows it to be tucked away (the blankets last longer when stored out of the sun and the winter elements). Also, consider getting a Rocky's Roller reel (http://www.rockysrollers.com/home.html). We have one now but our first one was the standard white PVC crappy garbage useless and ugly POS things that most pool companies flog. Just in case I wasn't clear, the standard reels are not very good... ;)

Lastly, if you're doing the wiring yourself, try to put everything on a subpanel that you simply turn off in the fall - you don't want to accidentally switch anything on while everything's under a snow cover.

[mart242]

Thanks a lot for the reply..

No need for a safety cover in my case since the pool will be fenced. Kids can play in the other area of the backyard. On the other hand, I wonder how bad the accumulation of water and debris will be with the regular tarp & water bags..


I was definitely planning on building something like the enclosure you've linked. That would be perfect.

LED are outrageous.. 1600$.. and it's not like the basic lights are free either, 1000$ for two. But since you can't add that after, I guess I gotta pay for it.

Good point about figuring out where to put the solar blanket. My pool is this shape though, which complicates things:
http://www.sarniapool.com/KafkoPDFs/2007SteelDigSpecs/images/fiji.jpg
I've got sun pretty much all day long where the pool will be so I may as well use a solar blanket. Plus, there is still construction in the neighborhood so it will keep some of the crap outside the pool.


I'll definitely put everything in a sub panel. The "P4" is actually both a "pool automation thingy" and a sub-panel. I guess I could put a surge protector in that sub-panel..


diving boards: worth it or not? I've got 2 boys so I'm sure it would be used.. but the damn thing is 1000$ and a huge PITA to add later due to required electrical bonding and concrete anchoring. The way I see it: it's safer because it allows you to clear the pool wall easily.

[fireguy9]

I am about to sign the paperwork to purchase an in-ground pool to be installed this season (through www.poolbuilders.ca) and have a few questions. Can anyone help? (I figure that I may as well do my own homework instead of believing pool companies..)

Due to zoning and pool location, I can't put a shed so my equipment (filter / pump / heater) will have to be on a concrete pad.

- I'm planning on going with a pro logic P4 panel and salt cell.
http://www.h2opoolproducts.com/product_info.php?products_id=1977
What's the best way to mount that? My house siding is vinyl so should I
a) cut an opening in the vinyl, put j-trims, install box and caulk?
b) put a j-bolt in the concrete, "socket" for a 4x4 post, 4x4 post and mount the panel on the post?
c) put the panel in the basement and route the wires outside in a PVC pipe.. the problem with that is the salt cell wire is only 15' long (and has some kind of special connector)
d) other?
I'm also thinking of buying the panel in the US since it's much cheaper. Anyone knows if the ones there are approved for use in Canada? The user manual mentions both canada and usa, the only difference being that the canadian panel has an extra ground lug..

- I'm thinking of doing the electrical myself. I'm an electrical engineer (working in electronics) and I wired my whole basement (lots of circuits) so doing it is no problem but the "how" is what concerns me.. Anyone knows of a good reference regarding pool bonding rules? The PS-Knight book (electrical code simplified) doesn't mention it since it's for house wiring only.. I figure that if I get it inspected it should be fine, unless part of the install has to be done by a licensed electrician? (ie: pool bonding?)

- For winter, do you guys use a regular in-ground pool tarp with water bag? Is a cover pump really needed? It seems like it wouldn't work out too well with the mix of ice / snow / rain we get in winter.. but the "safety covers" are much more expensive (and my pool will be fenced so I don't care about the safety part)

- Has anyone heated their in-ground pool with a solar system only? The way I see it, solar is efficient the days you don't need it.. ie: when it's hot and sunny. I guess it's a nice addition to save gas but a primary gas heater would still be needed since it's an inground pool.

- Are LED lights worth it? or are regular lights good enough? They are pricey enough.. 750$ / 2 lights!

- Any recommendation on a good quiet pump? I've heard the hayward superpump and it's LOUD!

- Any advice on things you wish you had done to your pool but now is too late to do?

We have same style pool.
Did electrical with family friend. Was not hard at all.
Wire the pump for 220 as some can be wired 110 as well, but 220 is better. Installed separate breaker box and a timer to run it.

Bought our pump in U.S as it was cheaper (pentair)
Also bought Perflex filter by hayward in U.S. If you can, choose this,, as you never have to backwash and the water is cleaner then any other filters out their. They are much more popular in U.S then here.

We put LED light in and yes expensive but cool colours!!

So far the regular winter cover is used. I use a submersible pump to drain off winter cover off and on in winter. Bought this on ebay. Here is link to what we bought. http://cgi.ebay.com/Wayne-No-Clogging-Utility-Pump-Submersible-1-4-HP-VIP25_W0QQitemZ130326375546QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item1e580eac7a&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Neighbor has a safety cover, but the pool is a mess at startup as the water is black and crap as everything falls into pool.

built homemade solar system with black garden hose and some fittings and the water is warm warm warm! Even this summer we have not used the heater very much. The pool is 81-87 all summer.

[royaljelly]

A couple of things I would do over if I had a choice on what pool I could get from scratch (since I bought a home already w/ a pool).

- switching over to salt water system - apparently the drainage to sewage is different than to storm drains for the pool, so plan ahead for that. Mine is going to storm drain, so it's illegal for the pool guy to drain my pool each end of season (or even weekly backwash) in Toronto if I had salt water system.

- shape of pool - mine is a kidney shaped, but also a little island in the middle to one side where there's a fountain/bushes growing, which makes using a solar blanket use more difficult (i.e removal, etc).

- solar power - this summer I had 3 of 4 pool parties on the sunday which was on cloudy/partly rainy days. If I didn't have my gas heater, the pool parties wouldn't have happened. (my pool is 80,000 liters apparently, takes about 24 hrs+ to heat up to 29C on cooler days).

- placement of pump - mind is right next to the wall of my family room (opposite my sofa across from tv). I used to hear it all the time, really annoying when watching tv late at nights. I've since installed a 12 hr timer so that it goes on 8am and off 8pm, so more tolerable at nights.

- if you have young kids, then a good fence or one of those covers that you can walk on is a good investment for peace of mind

[CaptSmethwick]

A few more points:

Shape: We did a lot of research before we bought and put the shape in the stone decking around the pool rather than the pool itself. Our pool is 20' x40' and is rectangular (with radiused corners). This makes covering and maintenance a breeze and is great for doing laps (which is how we parents tend to use it). Still, the shape of the OP's pool-to-be is both attractive and pretty straightforward for covering - good choice!

Safety covers:

I'm a big fan of these covers but you can always add one later - it does not have to be done now.
We overpaid for ours but 5 years ago, there weren't all that many sources for these. You can get them cheaper - either here or from the US.
I agree that you don't need one if the pool is fenced in. We didn't fence in our pool because we did not want to cut off our pool from the rest of our yard - the cover effectively allowed us to exploit a lot of landscaping options that wouldn't have been available if we had gone with a standard winter cover. Still, our kids were adept swimmers when we put the pool in - if they hadn't been, we would have chosen differently as you can't put on the cover every time the pool isn't in use.
The first winter we owned our pool, we used a regular winter tarp - pumping it off took some time and some skill but wasn't too bad. I did find it a little challenging to muscle that last bit of brackish water and assorted detritus that the pump couldn't handle. You have to dispose of this stuff - which can include long-dead worms, mice, etc. but typically includes leaves and twigs. The trick is to make sure that the crap doesn't fall back into your pool. The biggest downside though was that, after pumping away ~20,000L of water, I then had to add water to our pool!
I don't what fireguy's neighbour is doing wrong with his safety cover - ours opens every spring clean as can be. I suspect that his cover is of a different design from mine: this year, it took me an hour to take off my cover and clean my pool to sparkling - with the bonus that in the spring I never have to pump away water or add water to the pool. Keep in mind that a safety cover has a permeable membrane that allows snow melt through and into the pool but yard/tree debris stays on the surface and is blown away by wind or a leaf blower. And that design feature makes the cover often dry and always clean when it comes off in the spring.
Finally, we use our safety cover during the heavy leaf-fall season in the fall - it really helps


Solar blankets are a misnomer - they should be put on overnight and in cool weather to insulate the pool. They do very little for the pool on a hot and sunny day. In fact, they should be kept out of the sun to extend their life. YMMV.

Heaters: I agree with royaljelly here. We have a heater that is scaled for our pool and, IMO, bigger is better as it allows you to heat up your pool in a compressed timeframe. IOW, you can leave the pool cool during the week and turn on your heater Saturday morning and be swimming that afternoon. If you get too small a heater, you'll either lose some spontaneity or waste NG. Still, solar is a good option to keep the pool at a nice temperature once June arrives.

[CaptSmethwick]

One more thing...

Diving Boards - we didn't really research the subject and just had one like this one (http://aquanet.net/pool-diving-boards-fibredive.htm) thrown into the install deal. It's okay and has gotten heavy use from the kids.

That being said, if I was considering a pool the size of yours, I would have deleted it - as I would not want to encourage diving from too far into or above the pool with such a short deep end.

On that rather sombre note, one of the first things we did after our pool contract was signed was to call our insurance agent and increase our liability insurance.

[mart242]

Thanks guys. My kids are 1 and 5 so I'm DEFINITELY putting in a fence. I'll try the regular cover this year, we'll see how it goes. The safety cover is quite more expensive (they want something like 3k! Which is simply ridiculous)

My pool will be this one:
http://www.sarniapool.com/KafkoPDFs/2007SteelDigSpecs/Fiji/fiji2035right.pdf

That's all I can fit due to existing interlock / lot size / house siting. It should be pretty nice.


I'm not too sure about the diving board. The deep end doesn't seem *that* small but the diving board can only be put in one spot and with the extra concrete it needs it would stick out too close to my property line (I think. I still have to doublecheck that).

I'll really have to check about salt water and where to dump it. What do people do if it can't be sent to the storm sewers? Run a line into the kitchen sink? :confused:

[patriot]

I'm not too sure about the diving board. The deep end doesn't seem *that* small but the diving board can only be put in one spot and with the extra concrete it needs it would stick out too close to my property line (I think. I still have to doublecheck that).

You can consider a diving rock, we installed ~ 4 yrs ago and definitely shied away from a diving board.


I'll really have to check about salt water and where to dump it. What do people do if it can't be sent to the storm sewers? Run a line into the kitchen sink? :confused

Do you have neighbors all around your property ? If so, then you'll need to backwash out the front and into the street.

[mart242]

You can consider a diving rock, we installed ~ 4 yrs ago and definitely shied away from a diving board.

What's the point of a diving rock? The nice thing with a diving board is that it allows you to clear the edge of the pool a bit more.

[patriot]

What's the point of a diving rock? The nice thing with a diving board is that it allows you to clear the edge of the pool a bit more.

How deep is your pool ? I would assume that you'd be looking at at least 10' with a springboard. Also we decided against both, our friends have a diving rock which looks well integrated and functional.

[CaptSmethwick]

Diving rocks have the advantage of looking more natural and most that I have seen do protrude over the pool's edge. There is no advantage of a (non-spring) board over a rock, IMO, other than the fact that, when you're tired of it, it's a somewhat easier removal.

My apologies on my perception of the scale of your pool - the cross-section makes it clear that your deep end is deep enough to dive. That being said, people don't really dive straight down from the edge of a pool, so there's little to be gained from getting a start that extra 2' into pool from either a board or a rock. My kids do like to use it but my wife and I typically do shallow dives from the pool's edge and discourage any "high dives" in any case.

[apn64]

Pump/filter/heater location

Pump will be noisy and (also in O-town) regulations require ~4' from property line. My pool installer offers a couple of options for the pump/filter;

1. On a dedicated pad, but mounted close enough to cover the whole assembly with an inexpensive Rubbermaid half-height mini shed.

2. Mount them in the garage.

I went with option (2) since we had an unused corner by the door into the house. Salt panel and light transformer are also mounted in the garage, and the heater is on the same (but outside) wall of the garage. We had to request a no-charge "slim" heater to abide to code requirements.

Cover

Also picked up a cover from eBay; went with the mesh kind i.e. allows water but not debris to pass through = no pumping in the spring :D

Electrical hookup

In hindsight, I wish I'd done more myself (also EE), but left it to a turnkey contract, however, beware that contracts often don't include Gas and Electrical hookups.

I got completely screwed on electrical; quoted $600 materials and $500 labor. Guy was recommended by the pool contractor, so I figured he knew what he was doing. To cut a long story short, even at retail prices, there's no where close to $600 in materials and when finished, he told me it was a lot easier and less time (1 man, ~3hrs) than he figured. "Great" I said, "so that must lower the labor rate". "No" came the reply, fixed-price. B@stard.

Permit didn't require electrical/gas inspection in my case, all the guy (summer student) cared about was the enclosure (fence) be in-place and to-spec before the liner/water could be installed.

One thing I'm interested in is a timer for the pool. I used a Kill-A-Watt and found it sucked 1.4KW, so with that and AC, the bill really spikes in the summer.

Lights; I didn't look into LED but at that cost I'd be unlikely to bite, however, they will typically last ~1 Million hours. My 12V AC lamp failed after the first season. No part #'s on it so went to the pool store to get replacement @ $85, then discovered if I use the GE part # (instead of Hayward) in Google, I can get them for about US$13 in the States.

Diving board

Finally, as others have pointed out, be careful with the diving board. Our contractor wouldn't install on 14'x28', but at 20'x35' you'll have a bit more room. Even so, figure out the potential landing zones from the board before purchase/installation.

Chemicals

Even with a salt-water pool, chemicals can be expensive. Salt is usually about $9/bag, but the pool stores charge an arm+leg for Algicides, Clarifiers etc. You can get the basics like Calcium balance, ph+, ph- etc. at Wal-Mart, but I discovered that they're all cheaper in the US; Ogdensburg Wal-Mart sells Clarifier for ~US$10, whereas I paid CAD$30 the first season.

[apn64]

Just spoke to my neighbor that also used Poolbuilders...

- He's happy with the work and would use them again.

- They will negotiate on price.

- Like me, he opted for the standard contract; all pool parts/materials supplied & installed, utilities extra, but wishes he'd done more himself. Even worse than mine, his electrical ran $2,100 (pony panel) and gas $1,500

Overall, no issues with the company, but we both advise nailing-down your utility hookups (DIY or multiple quotes) before signing.

PS: If you have a beer fridge in the garage (as my neighbor does) the Poolbuilders guy is partial to helping himself when he gets thirsty :)

[mart242]

My pool will be 8' deep if all goes well. If it's less, I will NOT be putting a diving board and I doubt they'd install one anyways. I thought that spring would be better / more fun but based on what some of you mentioned they should be only for the 10' deep pools? Hmm.. that complicates things.

For the lights, any advice on regular vs LED? The LEDs are ~1100US (not even sure if it's the exact ones I need) / 1600CDN and I can get the halogen ones for 750$. Are LEDs that much better?

apn64:
Damn. Pool builders was quite firm when it came to pricing. They didn't want to move at all. I think that's because they are getting quite busy, or maybe I should have pushed harder. Then again, they've got a nice special going on and they gave me a fair price on the retaining wall I'll need so I'm still pretty happy with the deal. They seem to get quite busy with the warm weather we had for a week or two, the HST kicking in next year as well as the home renovation tax credit ending soon. The paperwork is signed so it's too late to change numbers anyways.

I know a guy who bought a pool kit and is having poolbuilders installing it. He said that he's saving ~2k but we'll see once he's done. There are too many things that can go wrong when doing that.

I'll definitely be doing the electrical myself (including sub-panel) and I got a quote for the gas hook-up, ~600$. I guess I should get another quote just in case.. It can't go in the garage, mine is too far (and is full!)


For the electrical, the inspection is from the ESA http://www.esainspection.net/ and you book that yourself.

[Tical]

That's the perfect size pool. If you dont mind my asking, what's the ballpark on something like that? I dont want to know what you paid, just curious how much $$ i should be saving ;)

[mart242]

That's the perfect size pool. If you dont mind my asking, what's the ballpark on something like that? I dont want to know what you paid, just curious how much $$ i should be saving ;)

http://www.poolbuildersottawa.ca/specials.php
Add a heater, pvc coping (depending on pool shape), diving board, lights and it gets close to 30k. I need to use a line of credit for the purchase because if I wait until I've saved 30k the kids will have moved out by then :lol:

[royaljelly]

BTW, my friend has one of those permanent rigid black metal fences that you can't take down. It's safe, but looks like a prison jail pool to me.

Mine is some kind of strong plastic mesh fence w/ ?aluminum poles that go into the ground about 3" or so. There's 3 large panels that are joined from one fence to another fence (next to the house), held together very tightly by metal clips that I can barely put on and remove with a lot of force. It's nice such that I can remove it completely for my pool parties, yet safe enough that the kids can't take down.

[CaptSmethwick]

http://www.poolbuildersottawa.ca/specials.php
Add a heater, pvc coping (depending on pool shape), diving board, lights and it gets close to 30k. I need to use a line of credit for the purchase because if I wait until I've saved 30k the kids will have moved out by then :lol:

What size of heater? Ours is 400k BTUs w/ electronic thermostat (the pool is over 100,000 L.) and we find it's perfect for our needs. With the same ratio of BTUs to volume, that would mean that something around 280+ BTUs should give you a similar experience. I would imagine that their standard kit would include something closer to 200k BTUs - if so, consider an upgrade to 250k or 300k (the latter might be overkill and would likely require more expensive NG piping).

Also, I highly recommend that you get a model with an electronic thermostat - again, something that pool companies often do not throw in with their special packages (it's usually ~$100-$150 upgrade).

[mart242]

It's a Hayward 250k BTU, electronic ignition (thus an electronic thermostat). 300k would require a larger gas line ($$$)

2200$ for the heater and concrete pad that goes underneath


royaljelly, good point about the fence. I'll try to look into the fence you're talking about.

[patriot]

Mine is some kind of strong plastic mesh fence w/ ?aluminum poles that go into the ground about 3" or so.

I think there are two main contractors for removable protective fencing. I would recommend Protect-A-Child fencing. The posts are made of solid carbon-fibers (aluminum would kink if hit) and the meshing is triple sewn.

[mart242]

I think there are two main contractors for removable protective fencing. I would recommend Protect-A-Child fencing. The posts are made of solid carbon-fibers (aluminum would kink if hit) and the meshing is triple sewn.

Ballpark $?

[royaljelly]

What size of heater? Ours is 400k BTUs w/ electronic thermostat (the pool is over 100,000 L.) and we find it's perfect for our needs. With the same ratio of BTUs to volume, that would mean that something around 280+ BTUs should give you a similar experience. I would imagine that their standard kit would include something closer to 200k BTUs - if so, consider an upgrade to 250k or 300k (the latter might be overkill and would likely require more expensive NG piping).

Also, I highly recommend that you get a model with an electronic thermostat - again, something that pool companies often do not throw in with their special packages (it's usually ~$100-$150 upgrade).

Good point about the heater. My pool is approx 80,000L, and my pool and heater guys both suggested a minimum 250k heater, which I got for about $2000 installed (replacing an older rusted over one).

Even w/ a thermostat, my pool guy suggested running the water pump for additional 15mins or so until the heater unit cools down (since he's seen some units fried without running water while the heater was still on or shortly turned off). Mines on a pump timer, but I set it to manual on all the time when the heater is on too.

BTW, is there any sort of maintenance that is needed for a outdoor uncovered gas pool heater? My last one died due to neglect (according to the heater servicing guy) and the ?coils were totally rusted and non replaceable, but I only moved in 1.5 yrs ago).

[CaptSmethwick]

BTW, is there any sort of maintenance that is needed for a outdoor uncovered gas pool heater? My last one died due to neglect (according to the heater servicing guy) and the ?coils were totally rusted and non replaceable, but I only moved in 1.5 yrs ago).

Bi-annual inspection/cleaning would be worthwhile. Our heater repair guy has told me not to cover it in the winter, saying it'll last longer. He also told me not to expect more than 10-15 years out of a pool heater - less if you don't keep your water properly balanced.


It's a Hayward 250k BTU, electronic ignition (thus an electronic thermostat). 300k would require a larger gas line ($$$).

Just double-check that it has a digital read-out rather than rotary temp dials - the former allows more precise management of the temperature.

You're right about the gas line - we paid several hundred for the larger bore pipe and the compression fitting. :eek:

[mart242]

Just double-check that it has a digital read-out rather than rotary temp dials - the former allows more precise management of the temperature.


I'll hook it up to a P4 control panel with temperature probes.. you can bet it will be precisely managed ;)

[L_Mo]

Ballpark $?

+1 for this question. We are looking to install a removable fence...

[mart242]

+1 for this question. We are looking to install a removable fence...

25$ / linear feet. Installation included. It's not too bad.

[mart242]

Time for a bump...

they began digging last week but hit some fairly large pebbles :D They tried a jackhammer on their bobcat but it didn't do anything to the big rock so they're sending something more manly tomorrow morning.

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8855/20090918dsc0160.th.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/20090918dsc0160.jpg/)

[CaptSmethwick]

Time for a bump...

they began digging last week but hit some fairly large pebbles :D They tried a jackhammer on their bobcat but it didn't do anything to the big rock so they're sending something more manly tomorrow morning.

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8855/20090918dsc0160.th.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/20090918dsc0160.jpg/)

That's a nice, dry hole given how wet a year we've had - you're going to have a great pool when it's all done!

[ephori]

time to bump up this thread ;) (warm Winter, hot Summer,... maybe?)

mart242, I guess I am in a very similar situation as you are: got a pool installed last October and now the time has come to hook up the P4. I am also on the fence with salt versus chlorine... could you elaborate on your experience with the P4 installation and T-cell (which, by the way is pretty expensive). your feedback is much appreciated.