J. A. Henckel's 50% at SuperStore. Hot?

[badshah2000]

J. A. Henckel's Eurocraft series of knives is 50% off at SuperStore this week. Is this a good deal?

Are these good knives? I ask because J. A. makes a guzzillion different kinds.

thx

[Carbo]

They're not bad for a cheapo set, but they're not the Zwilling brand (the good Henckel's made in Germany) so don't be expecting long lasting knives

[matt2_m416]

Amazon.con has a Henckel set going on sale as a Goldbox deal from 3-5 pm (EST) today (Sunday).

The 'good' knives by Henckel are either the 4 or 5 Star and the Professional S series. Wustohfs are considered superior but many professionals are moving over to Global because they are so much cheaper with only a minimal sacrifice of quality. Victorinox (yeah, the Swiss Army guys) knives are always a good price and well received. At the best price to quality ratio is actually Ikea.

The quality of a good knife is largely based on the material of the blade: is it carbon steel? That determines how long the knife will be able to last until it needs to be either sharpened or honed again. ALL KNIVES have to be cared for in this way. That steel thing you always see people running their knives across is for honing your knife: it resets the edge of the knife - realigning the end.

Think of it like sandpaper. Several times a day cooks hone their knife. The problem is that it can't actually sharpen your knife. If you've ever tried doing this to a dull knife you'll know what I mean. The easiest way to sharpen a knife at home is to use unglazed ceramic (like on the bottom of a coffee cup or bowl) and do the same action you did on the honing steel. Every couple of days I would do this when I was a cook and once a week our knives would be reground - something the residential user should have done every year or two.

One of the most surprising things to know about buying knives is that a heavier knife is best. The reason being that if it is really light your hand has to use more force to push it through the material which leads to your hand getting tired.

The other major part people tend to ignore when purchasing is how the handle feels in the hand. Some people just can't enjoy using certain handles. Some people do. That's why buying large knife sets aren't necessarily worth it. The other thing is the average person only needs 3 knives to do everything in the kitchen: an 8-inch chef knife, a pairing knife and a bread knife. I have a professional set including a fillet, boning and meat slicing knife and I've never actually used any of them (I also no longer work in a kitchen - but they were on sale, a really really good sale).

Hope this info helps.

[Smoothie]

^^^I have a Wustof sharpener or honing device, its pictured below. How often should I use it and what else should I do to maintain my knives, I have a mix of Henckels and Wustof.

http://images1.hdpi.com/product_enlarged/Wusthof_KnifeSharpener_2904_7.jpg

[Engi-Nir]

http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=217054
This is a good deal (USF :( )

[Roll]

http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=217054
This is a good deal (USF :( )

Nice, I'd glance at the site..doesnot mention to Canada. Has anyone ordered? Custom dues??

[bk]

Nice, I'd glance at the site..doesnot mention to Canada. Has anyone ordered? Custom dues??

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=758986

This thread mentions the Twin Four-Star 8pc set for $150US (my friend liked that it had both chef's and santoku and she doesn't use a bread knife which is not incl in this set, if that's a deal breaker for others). Cooking.com does not ship to Canada.
However, the later posts mentions stores like cookware.com and cutleryandmore.com which do. I ended up ordering from C&M, was +$29 US ship, + $30.94 CDN in taxes and duties when it arrived (though I bought a few other small items, which didn't change the shipping but did for the taxes).
A post on page 7 mentions using two coupons on cookware.com and getting it for even cheaper! (Not sure if the coupons are still valid)

Items: $149.99
Discount: $(15.00)
Shipping: $0.00
Tax: $7.75
International Fees: $19.95
Total: $162.69
So that may be a better route, as the Tax & International Fees apparently means no duties or brokerage when it arrives (a heck of a lot cheaper than what I paid...)
But the people at C&M were incredibly friendly to deal with, if it ends up cookware.com is out of stock and you order from them instead.

And to the OP, don't bother with the Eurocraft, the Synergy, or even the lower end "Twin" Henckels (Gourmet & Signature), which are stamped. That's not to say Stamped are always worse than Forged (see: MAC, Global knives, which are stamped but some great knives), but for Henckels that is the case.



EDIT 1 (to save people some time):
http://www.cookware.com/JA-Henckels-33423-008-JAH1580.html
10% off code for this weekend: WEEKEND10
Just tested cart, Shipped to Toronto, incl tax & int'l fees = $162.69 USD (darn... I should have ordered from here...)

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=15222
(C&M does incl a free cutting board, shears, and fish spatula though. My friend is enjoying the spatula for pancakes, and the shears were nicer than the ones that came in the Henckels set because they come apart and bottle opener teeth are steel vs plastic in the set)



EDIT 2: I should mention though one of the knives in the C&M picture are wrong (and still not corrected); it shows a small paring/boning knife:
http://www.cutleryandmore.com/large/15222a.jpg
however the knife in the set I received was a curved peeling knife:
http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=187
I mentioned this to C&M, and they said they would ship out the boning knife to me. They said if I wanted to keep the peeler, they could give it to me for the discounted rate of $25. While not a great price in comparison to the set at $150, I accepted as it's still not a bad deal, and I did not want to bother shipping it back.

[craftsman]

Amazon.con has a Henckel set going on sale as a Goldbox deal from 3-5 pm (EST) today (Sunday).

The 'good' knives by Henckel are either the 4 or 5 Star and the Professional S series. Wustohfs are considered superior but many professionals are moving over to Global because they are so much cheaper with only a minimal sacrifice of quality. Victorinox (yeah, the Swiss Army guys) knives are always a good price and well received. At the best price to quality ratio is actually Ikea.

The quality of a good knife is largely based on the material of the blade: is it carbon steel? That determines how long the knife will be able to last until it needs to be either sharpened or honed again. ALL KNIVES have to be cared for in this way. That steel thing you always see people running their knives across is for honing your knife: it resets the edge of the knife - realigning the end.

Think of it like sandpaper. Several times a day cooks hone their knife. The problem is that it can't actually sharpen your knife. If you've ever tried doing this to a dull knife you'll know what I mean. The easiest way to sharpen a knife at home is to use unglazed ceramic (like on the bottom of a coffee cup or bowl) and do the same action you did on the honing steel. Every couple of days I would do this when I was a cook and once a week our knives would be reground - something the residential user should have done every year or two.

One of the most surprising things to know about buying knives is that a heavier knife is best. The reason being that if it is really light your hand has to use more force to push it through the material which leads to your hand getting tired.

The other major part people tend to ignore when purchasing is how the handle feels in the hand. Some people just can't enjoy using certain handles. Some people do. That's why buying large knife sets aren't necessarily worth it. The other thing is the average person only needs 3 knives to do everything in the kitchen: an 8-inch chef knife, a pairing knife and a bread knife. I have a professional set including a fillet, boning and meat slicing knife and I've never actually used any of them (I also no longer work in a kitchen - but they were on sale, a really really good sale).

Hope this info helps.

A few additions:

1. You are mixing up honing and sharpening. I know that the two terms are often fixed up. Honing as you have stated is re-aligning your blade so that you have a straight smooth edge. Often with use, the blade gets a tiny bit bent out of shape or alignment - certain parts of the blade aren't perfectly straight anymore. The more parts of the blade out of alignment, the "duller" the knife edge will feel. Honing with a steel or an unglazed ceramic surface will help push those bits back into place. Some people recommend that the honing steel be as smooth as possible.

Sharpening (or regrinding) is generally the removal of material to form a proper edge and is usually done when honing with a steel will no longer produce a nice edge to use or the edge is just worn down. Sometimes the edge has nicks or dents that no amount of honing will be able to remove. Sharpening will fix that by removing enough material to remove the nicks and dents.

2. A really sharp knife will go a long way in reducing fatigue when cutting material.

3. The type of steel is important. The Germans use stainless steel. The French and the Japanese generally use carbon steel. Some people say that the stainless steel will not in part any taste to the food while carbon steel will react with some food and thereby changing the tastes. Carbon steel is often harder than stainless and will hold a sharper edge for much longer.

A very simple test for Henckels - made in Germany is GOOD, made in anywhere else is not so good. You can also use the number of men test - One man in the logo is not good, two men in the logo is generally much better (probably made in Germany as well).

[craftsman]

^^^I have a Wustof sharpener or honing device, its pictured below. How often should I use it and what else should I do to maintain my knives, I have a mix of Henckels and Wustof.

http://images1.hdpi.com/product_enlarged/Wusthof_KnifeSharpener_2904_7.jpg

Honing should be done (using the fine side) daily if the knife is used a fair bit (not restaurant level usage...). The coarse side should be used only when you can't get a good edge using the fine side. Once the coarse side is used, you should follow that up with the fine side.

[andykrull]

Honing should be done (using the fine side) daily if the knife is used a fair bit (not restaurant level usage...). The coarse side should be used only when you can't get a good edge using the fine side. Once the coarse side is used, you should follow that up with the fine side.

It's not necessarily fair to quote this as gospel. It depends what your knife is. If anyone is interested in purchasing kitchen cutlery I absolutely endorse learning about edge maintenance but it really depends on the blade design and material. If anyone is serious in buying a decent blade, I refer them to an earlier post of mine:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=518193
Specifically: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5998563&postcount=10

An earlier poster claimed heaviest blades are best. Again, this is not gospel either because it really depends on the task. Cutting chocolate? Sure take a heavy thick blade so you aren't worried about chipping it. Cutting vegetables? No way do I want a heavy knife. Light, thin, and razor sharp are the best.

I veered away from german makes because if you learn to maintain a quality Japanese blade it is unparalleled. I touch up my knives once or twice a month on waterstones and they are absolute razors.

Knifeforums.com (info), japanesechefsknife.com (knives), and lee valley tools (waterstones) are your best sources.

Best regards,

AK

[coolspot]

The only good Hankels are the ones with the twin logo (double man).

Most likely the ones being sold at the Superstore are the JA Henckel Internationals (single man), which are made in China, Spain, or some other country besides Germany.

[craftsman]

It's not necessarily fair to quote this as gospel. It depends what your knife is. If anyone is interested in purchasing kitchen cutlery I absolutely endorse learning about edge maintenance but it really depends on the blade design and material. If anyone is serious in buying a decent blade, I refer them to an earlier post of mine:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=518193
Specifically: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5998563&postcount=10

An earlier poster claimed heaviest blades are best. Again, this is not gospel either because it really depends on the task. Cutting chocolate? Sure take a heavy thick blade so you aren't worried about chipping it. Cutting vegetables? No way do I want a heavy knife. Light, thin, and razor sharp are the best.

I veered away from german makes because if you learn to maintain a quality Japanese blade it is unparalleled. I touch up my knives once or twice a month on waterstones and they are absolute razors.

Knifeforums.com (info), japanesechefsknife.com (knives), and lee valley tools (waterstones) are your best sources.

Best regards,

AK

I know it's not the gospel but if we start talking about this stuff, we will need a whole different forum.... :)

But we have to start some where and for a starting guideline, it's not bad.