UofT vs UW math

[DesignW]

I am looking for people who have been to both institutions, no bias please >_>.

I am currently in UW and is considering switching to a UofT program which would most likely be the stgeorge one.

So how do the difficulties compare?

[jhan]

I have 2 close friends who went from UW -> UofT.
They say UofT's version of MAT137 and MAT237 are harder. Much more proof-based than UW.

[DesignW]

Oh really, and here i thought waterloo was hard. What about algebra Math 135?

[notsoanon]

Why are you interested in switching?

What do you mean by "math"? Pure math? What area? What goal?

[phomp]

Neither a UofT or UW student so not giving any bias as I think they are both great schools.

UW math > UofT math. You are not going to get anything at UofT that you can not get at Waterloo. Except maybe higher tuition, lol but that might be offset by a long shot if you have to live on campus in waterloo but do not at UofT. But at Waterloo you have a co-op option and from what I understand UW is the top undergrad math program in Canada.

[Nyte]

At the lower levels (1st and 2nd yr), its the same, beyond that, I don't know.

[resu]

At the lower levels (1st and 2nd yr), its the same, beyond that, I don't know.

+1. Go to U of T if you're also interested in anything outside of math. The elective choices at UW are piss poor. I would have gone to U of T if it wasn't for co-op...

[DesignW]

Currently at waterloo actually, was just considering switching.

I'm in co-op btw and im in the general math program atm, looking to get into act sci most probally.

[jhan]

Currently at waterloo actually, was just considering switching.

I'm in co-op btw and im in the general math program atm, looking to get into act sci most probally.
No need to switch if you are in a good standing. UW's ActSci + Co-op > UofT

[windforcexx28]

Is there a particular reason why you're considering in switching?

[DesignW]

Not really, just wanted to see if it was gonna be easier. It is quite intense right now to be honest.

[quantifinance]

your struggling with 1 year UW math?.. =/. Good luck with upper year actsc courses + everything else :D

[DesignW]

lol xD

[notsoanon]

No need to switch if you are in a good standing. UW's ActSci + Co-op > UofT
+1


your struggling with 1 year UW math?.. =/. Good luck with upper year actsc courses + everything else :D
+1

Don't do it.

[DesignW]

don't know what i should do....

[jhan]

don't know what i should do....
- If you are struggling with 1st yr math, then you won't make it in ActSci.
- It will not get any easier at UofT.. if anything it will be harder.

I feel for you though, outside of Math/Engineering/CS, what else can you do at UW? Their arts programs are crap. You should really give it one more shot then make a decision.. you need to wake up and give it your 100% so you have no regrets.

[TheAnalyst]

What about their accounting program? :D

[jhan]

What about their accounting program? :D
you are right, but u get my point

[TheAnalyst]

you are right, but u get my point

I completely agree about the regular BA program though... you really don't want to be an artsie...

[nsd]

Finished U of T applied math specialist and stats major.
MAT 157 was effin bruuuutal, so I switched out of pure to applied math, and went down to 237 second year. Third and fourth were pretty hard, but a lot of fun. Most people were taking the same courses, so we had a good study group, for doing problem sets and the likes.
My ex went to Waterloo (not for math) and from what I've seen I can tell you it's much much harder at UofT (at least St. George).

[Nyte]

My ex went to Waterloo (not for math) and from what I've seen I can tell you it's much much harder at UofT (at least St. George).

Then how can you compare?

[syn3sto]

Finished U of T applied math specialist and stats major.
MAT 157 was effin bruuuutal, so I switched out of pure to applied math, and went down to 237 second year. Third and fourth were pretty hard, but a lot of fun. Most people were taking the same courses, so we had a good study group, for doing problem sets and the likes.
My ex went to Waterloo (not for math) and from what I've seen I can tell you it's much much harder at UofT (at least St. George).

The math Arts/Science people do is 100000 times easier than what Math people are doing. My friends mark their Math assignments, and they are easier than high school math.

[quantifinance]

Finished U of T applied math specialist and stats major.
MAT 157 was effin bruuuutal, so I switched out of pure to applied math, and went down to 237 second year. Third and fourth were pretty hard, but a lot of fun. Most people were taking the same courses, so we had a good study group, for doing problem sets and the likes.
My ex went to Waterloo (not for math) and from what I've seen I can tell you it's much much harder at UofT (at least St. George).

I am a uw math student and yes i agree, math at uoft is MUCH MUCH harder.. especially the specialist levels.

[drhorrible]

I have no personal experience with either. But the math department at Toronto has a better reputation than the department at Waterloo. How relevant this is to undergraduates, I don't know.

[Spock311]

UW Math is hard, I'm in CS and am just trying to survive the math courses (btw it is not fair that CS students have to take the same math as math majors whereas those in engineering and sciences get to take so much easier version of math courses)... those saying UofT math involves more proof take MATH 135 at UW. The course is 80% proofs. But at UW the class averages are apparently higher so that might be an indication of it being easier.

[andrewhaji]

I got through almost 2 years of Computer Science at UW before giving up, due mostly to the fact that the Math courses raped me. I failed MATH 138 once, and I was having a heck of a time on STAT 231. I guess some people are better suited to doing that stuff.

I'm much happier now that I'm at UofT taking something completely unrelated. :-)

[noobnoobnoob]

Having taken both regular (23x) and advanced (14x/24x) level math courses at UW, I'm not surprised why people would think UT math is harder. Some of the regular UW math courses felt like a really boring grind.

[DJ Dennis]

UW Math is hard, I'm in CS and am just trying to survive the math courses (btw it is not fair that CS students have to take the same math as math majors whereas those in engineering and sciences get to take so much easier version of math courses)... those saying UofT math involves more proof take MATH 135 at UW. The course is 80% proofs. But at UW the class averages are apparently higher so that might be an indication of it being easier.

The understanding in mathematics needed for computer science is a lot higher than the understanding in mathematics needed for engineering.

[jhan]

UW Math is hard, I'm in CS and am just trying to survive the math courses (btw it is not fair that CS students have to take the same math as math majors whereas those in engineering and sciences get to take so much easier version of math courses)... those saying UofT math involves more proof take MATH 135 at UW. The course is 80% proofs. But at UW the class averages are apparently higher so that might be an indication of it being easier.
Dude, MAT135 at UW is an algebra course that's considered relatively easy. We are talking calculus proofs here.

[damnos]

UW Math is hard, I'm in CS and am just trying to survive the math courses (btw it is not fair that CS students have to take the same math as math majors whereas those in engineering and sciences get to take so much easier version of math courses)... those saying UofT math involves more proof take MATH 135 at UW. The course is 80% proofs. But at UW the class averages are apparently higher so that might be an indication of it being easier.

CS takes a lot less math than Math majors do, you only need to take first year courses mainly and STAT 230,231, MATH 239 and no more upper year courses as far as I remember ... the hardest required math course in UW for CS students is probably just MATH 239, even that it's not that bad after you get the hang of it.

Besides being in CS, you need to know math anyway, it's worse for the math majors who dont like computers but was requried to take up to CS 134 which could be hell for them.

I was in UW CS btw ...

Also for the OP


Not really, just wanted to see if it was gonna be easier. It is quite intense right now to be honest.

You are joking yourself by saying you are considering ActSci while saying that it's getting too intense for you and it's only in 1st year. Do you realize that apart from formal school degree you still need to take certifications (10 exams or something?) for ActSci and it's very very competitive to pass those exams?

[Spock311]

Dude, MAT135 at UW is an algebra course that's considered relatively easy. We are talking calculus proofs here.

How is it an "easy course" when it has one of the lowest average of first year math/cs courses? The midterm average so far is like a 57 which is very low even in comparison to calc. Calc proofs (atleast so far) are easy. There are only a few of them and there is only a certain number of ways they can be asked. 135 rapes you as pretty much every question involves proofs. Atleast in Calc they only test you on proofs which are in textbook/lecture but in 135 you are suppose think creatively and use the textbook proofs as a guide to construct your own proofs to questions you have never seen.

[damnos]

How is it an "easy course" when it has one of the lowest average of first year math/cs courses? The midterm average so far is like a 57 which is very low even in comparison to calc. Calc proofs (atleast so far) are easy. There are only a few of them and there is only a certain number of ways they can be asked. 135 rapes you as pretty much every question involves proofs. Atleast in Calc they only test you on proofs which are in textbook/lecture but in 135 you are suppose think creatively and use the textbook proofs as a guide to construct your own proofs to questions you have never seen.

Partially what made MATH 135 hard is because it's a "new" kind of math course for high school students. Algebra in high school are quite different from what you get in MATH 135, while for calculus in uni, it's just continuation of what you learned in highschool. So that unfamiliarity factors play a part in making MATH 135 to be harder as opposed to MATH 137.

But again, you just need to wrap your head around the fundamentals and concepts of "doing things" in algebra and you'll be fine. It kinda build foundation for MATH 239 too in terms of learning something "unfamiliar"

[jhan]

How is it an "easy course" when it has one of the lowest average of first year math/cs courses? The midterm average so far is like a 57 which is very low even in comparison to calc. Calc proofs (atleast so far) are easy. There are only a few of them and there is only a certain number of ways they can be asked. 135 rapes you as pretty much every question involves proofs. Atleast in Calc they only test you on proofs which are in textbook/lecture but in 135 you are suppose think creatively and use the textbook proofs as a guide to construct your own proofs to questions you have never seen.
We were talking about MAT137/237 (calculus courses) at UofT being more proof-based than UW, not the whole school. UofT has plenty of math courses that are proof based. I've seen plenty of UW MAT135 materials though, and we have a course called MAT246 at UofT which is pretty much identical in contents. These are not "hard", you just have to understand the fundamental theorems and use them to construct creative proofs.

Also, let's use final grades to compare the difficulty of courses, instead of judging it based on 1 midterm mark so far. I don't have to explain why. Also, you are crazy if you think calculus proofs are easy. Maybe you are doing intro MAT137 stuff. Again, you can't judge things with limited experience.

[DesignW]

I thought waterloo was better for math, it does have a math degree instead of a science...

But everyone seems to think UofT is better?

[MedallionFund]

Maybe math isn't for you?

[notsoanon]

I thought waterloo was better for math, it does have a math degree instead of a science...

But everyone seems to think UofT is better?

Waterloo is certainly better for actuarial science and computer science. The math business double degree program is also great, and the C&O faculty is solid. In other areas of math, Toronto may have an edge in terms of research. BUT Waterloo's coop program is very strong and that is a huge benefit.

Also, don't confuse "harder" with "better". I wouldn't be surprised if it was harder to get a good mark in the UT course - the UW course likely has a better average. That doesn't mean you get a better education at UT, just that at UW you don't get you never marks bell curved down.

So for an undergraduate who doesn't mind living in Waterloo, I think UW is a better choice.

[noobnoobnoob]

just that at UW you don't get you never marks bell curved down.

At UW some marks also get curved up pretty ridiculously. It's very possible to get 100 for some courses.

[Nyte]

Dude, MAT135 at UW is an algebra course that's considered relatively easy. We are talking calculus proofs here.

Math 135 was by far my hardest first year math course, the calculus courses were quite easy by comparison. I agree with damnos in that a good part of why it is hard is because it is a new way of thinking.

Spock311, if the math is bothering you, make sure you go for a BCS.

[DesignW]

Math 135 was by far my hardest first year math course, the calculus courses were quite easy by comparison. I agree with damnos in that a good part of why it is hard is because it is a new way of thinking.

Spock311, if the math is bothering you, make sure you go for a BCS.

What did you end up in Math 135? do you rmb?

[Nyte]

What did you end up in Math 135? do you rmb?

Don't remember. Whats rmb? remember?

[DesignW]

Need more opinion about the reputation between the two programs.

[Free Willy]

I took both MAT137 and 237. Convinced me math wasn't for me, lol.

[drhorrible]

Need more opinion about the reputation between the two programs.

I'm a Ph.D student in math (without ties to either school). I've heard it expressed by many people, but notably one on this list (http://www.fields.utoronto.ca/programs/scientific/crm-fields-pims/), that Toronto is overall a better school for math. Waterloo does some things better (mostly discrete math-related), and both programs have great reputations. But in terms of overall research output and quality of faculty, Toronto is better. My rankings for Canadian schools would be

1. Toronto
2. UBC (has dominated Canadian math prizes over last 10 years)
3. Waterloo

[Rishi]

The post above mine is probably the only one from someone who actually knows what pure math is. Hint: just because you took a course once that had a proof in it, or studied CS/engineering, does not mean that you know anything about pure math. If the most abstract math you've ever seen was delta-epsilon proofs, or if the Stokes' theorem you saw was about R^3, then you never took any pure math courses. Taking math for CS/engineering/science does not qualify you to talk about math specialist programs anymore than taking sociology 101 qualifies you to rate a school's social science programs.

Comparing specialist programs in mathematics, UT is more challenging, has much better post-grad opportunities and more distinguished faculty members. UW doesn't even have a proper 1st year analysis course for crying out loud... there is no equivalent (in content not difficulty) to U of T's MAT157 at UW.

[noobnoobnoob]

UW doesn't even have a proper 1st year analysis course for crying out loud... there is no equivalent (in content not difficulty) to U of T's MAT157 at UW.
Would you know how MAT157 compares to UW's MATH147 + 148? Just curious (not surprised if MAT157 is harder)

[jahme]

To succeed in MAT157, you are either a math genius or you just have an undying desire to do pure math at levels that's well beyond any given first year course.

[DesignW]

I'm a Ph.D student in math (without ties to either school). I've heard it expressed by many people, but notably one on this list (http://www.fields.utoronto.ca/programs/scientific/crm-fields-pims/), that Toronto is overall a better school for math. Waterloo does some things better (mostly discrete math-related), and both programs have great reputations. But in terms of overall research output and quality of faculty, Toronto is better. My rankings for Canadian schools would be

1. Toronto
2. UBC (has dominated Canadian math prizes over last 10 years)
3. Waterloo

Thats very interesting, never knew UBC was in the top for math programs as well. I knew it was a good school but didn't know for what.

[blue_ray]

I'm a Ph.D student in math (without ties to either school). I've heard it expressed by many people, but notably one on this list (http://www.fields.utoronto.ca/programs/scientific/crm-fields-pims/), that Toronto is overall a better school for math. Waterloo does some things better (mostly discrete math-related), and both programs have great reputations. But in terms of overall research output and quality of faculty, Toronto is better. My rankings for Canadian schools would be

1. Toronto
2. UBC (has dominated Canadian math prizes over last 10 years)
3. Waterloo

I aim to pursue BSc Maths and eventually head for PhD if I can make it. I got an offer to do BSc in UTSG and UBC Okanagan (and not UBC V'cr). I prefer to live in V'cr so initially, the plan is work hard to seek a transfer from UBCO to UBCV after the 1st Year. This is now not feasible coz Biology is mandatory in UBCV but not at UBCO coz both not identical programs. I dislike biology so would not qualify. Now I'm thinking whether I should consider UTSG given the comments I read in this forum or try out UBCO and forget about the transfer. However, I am also concern about the competitiveness in UT as I'm also someone with special needs. Im gifted in maths relatively speaking but my weakness is in non-science courses as well as biology. Any views of UBCO and other useful inputs would be great. Does anyone know whether the first 2 years of a BSc in UTSG is still general and specialisation comes in only in 3rd & 4th year or from the 2nd year. The latter will be more ideal for me. Many Thanks!!

[firefly767]

i heard uw is better for applied math like actsci and stats, while u of t maybe better fore pure math