H1N1 & kids between 6 months & 5 yr old - (vaccine & homeopathy?)

[ayeung]

Children between 6 months and 5 yrs old are considered high risk in H1N1 case. As the flu season has started and the new vaccine becomes available to this group as soon as next week (Nov 2), are you going to have them vaccinated?

Also, would you consider using oregano oil or kid's echinacea to boost the immune system of your kids? And what measure(s) have you been doing or will be doing in prepare for this flu season?

We are using kid's echinacea for my 2.5 yr old and Cold-FX daily defense for adult. We may also try using oregano oil externally on the kids and hopefully, my 3 months old won't get the flu (she has 2 cold/flu so far since she was born).

[D-Roc]

This is already being discussed in Off Topic.

[longitude]

No

[zeddy]

I would rather take my chances with a vaccine that has some formal testing than give them homeopathic remedies that have NO formal testing.

[ephemera]

I would rather take my chances with a vaccine that has some formal testing than give them homeopathic remedies that have NO formal testing.

Exactly. I put my faith in science not pseudoscience.

[ieatkittens]

I would rather take my chances with a vaccine that has some formal testing than give them homeopathic remedies that have NO formal testing.

Does the government provide details on the testing that has been done to verify this is safe?

[ayeung]

I would rather take my chances with a vaccine that has some formal testing than give them homeopathic remedies that have NO formal testing.

Echinacea root extract and oregano oil has been used for many years with proven results to help cure cold/flu etc. They are just like vitamins and have their kids' version. If Cold FX has kids version, I would give them to my LO too.

They are herbal medicine used to boost immune system and not exactly to prevent swine flu.

[hagbard]

Giving them vitamin D (1000iu a day). No immunizations. In addition to vitamin D (3000iu a day) I'm taking 1500mg of olive leaf extract, vitamin B12, 500mg of C and probiotics (30billion little critters).

[getmail99]

Does the government provide details on the testing that has been done to verify this is safe?

No and may not be effective.

[ricoboxing]

no, i believe that keeping in a glass ball is more effective.

[JAC]

My astrologer suggested using phrenology.

[thelefteyeguy]

my 3 months old won't get the flu (she has 2 cold/flu so far since she was born).

it's pretty pretty rare for a 3 month old to already have 2 cold/flu already :|

[S U]

Why are people posting here if they are not going to be giving an opinion or comment on the original topic ---- stop wasting our time and ignore the thread!:evil:

Thanks for putting this thread up. I've been sitting on the fence as what to do.
I have 17 month twins and I'm not sure if we should give the vaccine or not - but after reading about the 13 year old boy that died, I realize that I need to do something fast.
I don't know enough about the vaccine to decide whether or not to go ahead with it. As I don't know enough about herbal remedies to go ahead with those either.

It would be great if those that have given flu vaccines (not swine flu) in the past to their little ones, would comment.
Also, those that refuse vaccines and go the natural route, we'd love to hear from you too - hopefully people will be mature enough not to bash, but to allow you to express yourself.

[RobDek]

I had my family vaccinated this afternoon for the H1N1 flu...it's the right choice. Public health offices here in NB won't turn anyone away.

[CSK'sMom]

I think this has been well covered in the thread in off topic. WHat people need to know is that H1N1 is not seasonal flu. H1N1's target group is the young and otherwise healthy. Kids are considered a high risk group and are being hit hard and fast by this virus. One only has to read the news to figure that out, between the 13 yr old hocky player and another child in Ottawa just this past weekend. There have been many other children that have died from this virus or the complications of it as well. Nothing homeopathic has been proven to prevent or treat H1N1, contrary to the marketing. ;)

With all of that said, all 3 of mine will be vaccinated as well as hubby and I. All 3 of my kids are considered at high risk for one reason or another as am I. I know I couldn't live with myself if something happened to one of them if they contract H1N1 and we didn't vaccinate them. We've also decided that we will control exposure where we can. For us that means sports activities and the like. If anyone is exibiting flu like symptoms we will leave and we will ask the same of anyone at our home. Our kids have always had the seasonal flu vaccine as well due to their grandparents being at high risk. We are around them alot and if one of us gets seasonal flu and it goes through our house it could be 5 or 6 weeks with us not having contact with them. None of us have ever had any adverse effects of that vaccine and haven't had the flu either.

[hagbard]

I think this has been well covered in the thread in off topic. WHat people need to know is that H1N1 is not seasonal flu. H1N1's target group is the young and otherwise healthy. Kids are considered a high risk group and are being hit hard and fast by this virus. One only has to read the news to figure that out, between the 13 yr old hocky player and another child in Ottawa just this past weekend. There have been many other children that have died from this virus or the complications of it as well. Nothing homeopathic has been proven to prevent or treat H1N1, contrary to the marketing. ;)

The H1N1 flu shot also haven't been proven to prevent or treat H1N1 either. The testing was only to "prove" its safety.


With all of that said, all 3 of mine will be vaccinated as well as hubby and I. All 3 of my kids are considered at high risk for one reason or another as am I. I know I couldn't live with myself if something happened to one of them if they contract H1N1 and we didn't vaccinate them. We've also decided that we will control exposure where we can. For us that means sports activities and the like. If anyone is exibiting flu like symptoms we will leave and we will ask the same of anyone at our home. Our kids have always had the seasonal flu vaccine as well due to their grandparents being at high risk. We are around them alot and if one of us gets seasonal flu and it goes through our house it could be 5 or 6 weeks with us not having contact with them. None of us have ever had any adverse effects of that vaccine and haven't had the flu either.

I can only speak from my own experience. I received a flu shot almost every year for nearly thirty years. Every winter I get sick multiple times with nasty viral and bacterial infections (including Pertussis). I also have asthma, where the slightest cold will leaving me coughing for a month. Since I stopped getting the flu shot, I've had no serious infections, though I do have a mild coughing cold at the moment. My wife (the GP) and I haven't found any other change or explanation other than my no longer receiving the flu shot. It appears my natural immunity has increased.

I think when the flu season comes to an end, we should run a poll to see of those who got the shot didn't or did get the flu. And of those who didn't get the shot did or didn't get the flu. And those who tried other methods (like vitamin D) did or didn't get the flu. At the moment, there is no clear "right" answer.

[CSK'sMom]

hagbard, as discussed IIRC the other thread the CDC has indeed tested the efficiancy of the H1N1 vaccine. That is exactly why early recommendations were for those under 10 to get 2 vaccinations vs. the typical one. With further trials they are now saying there is a 94% protection rate with a single dose. The trials, performed by Sanofi Pasteur if you want to look it up, do not apply to kids under 3 and under and of course for babies under 6 months of age as they aren't eligible for any flu vaccine.

And of course your natural immunity has increased. By simple logic one builds an immunity to viruses that they have been exposed to. Over time that immunity from prior infections naturally reduces the number of infections one will get. It's really no different than kids entering school or daycare. For the most part they get every bug going for the first while and over time get less and less due to the natural immunity from prior exposure. This is exactly why those over 65 are not considered high risk for H1N1 as they are thought to have prior exposure to this virus.

[AnnaBanana]

i will vacinate the kids as soon as i can. i always knew i would, but seeing these young kids die so quickly is shocking and horribly sad - especially if we have great vaccines at our disposal.

can someone answer this (which is my source of confusion..): why are people scared of the vaccine? like the government wouldn't ensure that it's safe? what i mean is, since we live in a country with FREE HEALTH CARE, you would think that the gov would ensure to the max degree that the vaccine is totally safe, cause if not, there would be HUGE repurcussions in terms of any negative side effects. if it wasn't safe, then tons of people would end up in clinics / hospitals, which would be a HUGE cost to the health care system. so i would assume (i'm naive?) that the gov would ensure that this is safe, because it's CHEAPER to give people the vaccine, then treat tons of sick people, right?

i hope that was clear...

anyway i am totally gonna vaccinate, one small needle is nothing compared to the way i'll feel knowing i protected them!

[CSK'sMom]

i will vacinate the kids as soon as i can. i always knew i would, but seeing these young kids die so quickly is shocking and horribly sad - especially if we have great vaccines at our disposal.

can someone answer this (which is my source of confusion..): why are people scared of the vaccine? like the government wouldn't ensure that it's safe? what i mean is, since we live in a country with FREE HEALTH CARE, you would think that the gov would ensure to the max degree that the vaccine is totally safe, cause if not, there would be HUGE repurcussions in terms of any negative side effects. if it wasn't safe, then tons of people would end up in clinics / hospitals, which would be a HUGE cost to the health care system. so i would assume (i'm naive?) that the gov would ensure that this is safe, because it's CHEAPER to give people the vaccine, then treat tons of sick people, right?

i hope that was clear...

anyway i am totally gonna vaccinate, one small needle is nothing compared to the way i'll feel knowing i protected them!

Anna, I just have to say it's refreshing to see a post on the vaccination subject that is well thought out and logical vs. the tin foil hat, conspiracy theory. Bravo to you! I honestly think all the confusion comes from the tin foil hat crowd set off by the whole Jenny McCarthy/autism crowd.

[thrifty1]

Anna, I just have to say it's refreshing to see a post on the vaccination subject that is well thought out and logical vs. the tin foil hat, conspiracy theory. Bravo to you! I honestly think all the confusion comes from the tin foil hat crowd set off by the whole Jenny McCarthy/autism crowd.

I take some offense to your " tin foil hat, conspiracy theory " jab. As most parents I have some concerns regarding this emerging outbreak? However, your governments have seen fit to purchase several million non-adjuvanted? doses of vaccine for use on pregnant women as the adjuvant has not been proven safe, and this causes peoples myself included to question this race to vaccinate with an unknown agent. Not only has it not been proven safe for use during pregnancy, it has not been proven safe for any. It is a " best guess " that it is as it has been used with other antigens with acceptable problems but testing is currently still under way on this current vaccine.
And yes , I do have tinfoil in the house but last used it to tent the turkey which I cooked for dinner ( I even cooked it with stuffing in it )
Just a thought :)

[tdotsaver]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/h1n1-swine-flu/reader-questions-on-h1n1-answered/article1329448/

[ayeung]

I know that there is a general thread in H1N1 in the off topic section but ... I'd like to make this thread in the parenting section in order to get parents' attention to talk about the vaccine for kids between 6 months and 5 years old who, unlike older kids or adults, they are generally considered too young to take many medicines when they are sick or generally have weaker immune system. I also only realized it recently that I should not give cough syrup to kids under 5.

So, preventing them to get sick is especially important. A lot of my friends who have young LOs were sitting on the fence about the H1N1 vaccine until now, they heard 2 kids dies from the flu in the past couple days. Aside from the H1N1 vaccine (as no one really knows if the vaccine can really prevent H1N1 effectively or if it's really 100% safe), I decided to be a little proactive and to give my 2.5 yr old more vitamins and herbal vitamins to help boost the immune system. If anyone is interested, I find that well.ca carries kid's echinacea (make sure it has echinacea roots, not just echinacea purpurea) and kids echinacea+vitamin C. The price seem reasonable plus free shipping in Canada. These vitamins can hardly be found in regular drug store or not even natural food store that I've been to or if anyone knows more about these, please share as I'm new to this.



can someone answer this (which is my source of confusion..): why are people scared of the vaccine?

One of the concern is the safety of the vaccine since it is new and barely enough time to test that it is safe to human, let alone if it will be effective. I've also read something long ago about the 1918 spanish flu epidemic when the vaccine later created actually kills many people.


it's pretty pretty rare for a 3 month old to already have 2 cold/flu already :|

It's not rare when you have another old kids who go to daycare and bring back the virus. But thanks goodness, no fever for my 3-month-old. My now 2.5 yrs old was constantly sick last winter with cold, flu, pneumonia, fever, throwing up, coughing etc etc (all fit the symptoms of H1N1 flu).

[getmail99]

Girl Barely Speaks or Walks, Constant Seizures After Flu Shot, She Was Marathon Runner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT7oTQyJjZ0&feature=player_embedded#

This FOX news station must be operated by "conspiracy theory" people.

Don't tell me about 1 in a million, I may be the one, I rather get the flu.
N1H1 vaccine even has less test than flu shot.

And don't me the BS theory that it is more dangerous to drive a car than get a reaction. If you are using this BS theory, you should not be a doctor. I don't understand why a doctor uses this theory to compare.

[CCCC3333]

Echinacea is a waste of money.

[shoppingmama]

Not touching this with a ten foot pole. I'll take the flu over the shot anyday. After years of vaccine research I know that the chemicals injected into our bodies are doing more harm than good. We are increasing our supplements and taking some homeopathic meds on our trip next week just in case.

[hagbard]

Echinacea is a waste of money.

Its not a preventative, at best, it will make a cold milder and last a day less. Not worthwhile, imo. Vitamin D has a lot of backing and as the theory goes, our lack of it in the winter months is why we have a flu season in the winter. Unfortunately for me, it looks like I have something wrong that's causing a reaction when I take it.

[D-Roc]

I admit that the media bombardment of this flu is starting to wear me down. I still do not believe in the flu shot, but I am starting to second guess myself.

The 13 year old that died is sad and ttragic. However, many people die per year of just the regualr flu and from what I have seen reported, there really is not an increase to people who have died with the Swine Flu.
What is not being reported about the 13 year old and any other person that died with having the Swine Flu or seriously ill with it, is that do they have any underlining health issues. Which I suspect is the case.


What also bothers me that without even confirming that one has the Swine Flu, Doctors are automatically assuming they have it based on symptoms. Now the symptoms could be many other illnesses or viruses and it concerns me that they are prescribing Tamiflu like it is candy.
One of my wife's clients took there two kids that had a cough and a fever (only one had a fever) to the hospital as they feared Swine Flu. It turned out that it was just a viral infection (maybe bronchitis). The symptoms were the same as Swine Flu.

To say the "right" decision is to get the shot is easily debatable and the choice for my family to not get any flu shot has nothing to do with conspiracy theories. I see it as over kill (along with treating everything that could be Swine Flu with Tamiflu) and will help the virus mutate/evolve in the future to something more deadly.

[D-Roc]

Maybe after reading this article will calm many of the fears that the media are preying on.

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/717085

[superwell]

I have a 6 month old (just) at home and I am also up in the air about getting any shots, either for myself/wife or her. For me there is to much (grey) area for me to get it for myself..I have always been against getting a flu shot, but now that I have a 6month old my vision has chnaged on the subject, but then that opens a whole other can of worms, which is do i want to inject her with something so untested, into her little body, when it is so weak on it's own. Now I know some will say it's better then getting the flu for her all together, but in reality, it doesn't prevent her from getting it for sure anyway, and then if she does still get it after the shot, there will be unnessary drugs in her system.

I think I will go with what worked for us growning up, which was I never got a shot for these types of things, and only got what was needed to attend school and so forth...my wife and I turned out ok, and we are very healthly people.

Just to touch on the very healthy 13 year old that just died. He had symptoms 2 days before and after visiting doctors for 2 days, and even though he was not feeling 100%, was still in a hockey tourny. If i had the flu, i would be in bed, resting, 13 or not. Now was he forced to go by a parent, since this might help him out with his future hockey goals or was it a 13 year old being, invinsible..either way the toll that his body went through with getting the flu to begin with and then the added stress on his body, trying to skate and sweating for 2 hr's didn't help him out at all. Just a thought.

[S U]

Anna, I just have to say it's refreshing to see a post on the vaccination subject that is well thought out and logical vs. the tin foil hat, conspiracy theory. Bravo to you! I honestly think all the confusion comes from the tin foil hat crowd set off by the whole Jenny McCarthy/autism crowd.

Really.....can we get off the McCarthy wagon.:twisted:
How did I know that someone would try and turn it back to that.:confused:
I don't think that this is what the OP was trying to get across.
I believe that there have been a lot of arguments for and against this vaccine -- and they have been put out there by MDs and others within this field.
When doubts and questions are being put forth by doctors, we begin to listen and hope for some type of answer as to whether or not to go ahead. Many are saying to do it, while others are saying absolutely not.
I think that the OP (and I) were hoping that people would come here and give their reasons as to why or why not they chose to vaccinate.
I don't believe that there is any need for judgement or insult.

[susan123]

I am willing to accept that the vaccine is relatively safe. My feeling is the government does not want added health care costs due to a bunch of people being sick. If the vaccine weren't safe, those costs would rise due to treating the issues from that.

However, given we are talking about our children in this forum, I am struggling with these questions that I feel apply more to vaccinating the very young vs myself, and I have not been able to find any answers...
1) Is giving an inactivated virus really going to produce the exact same response as having a live virus? I know your body produces antibodies (even to the dead virus) that they feel help to recognize the virus and begin fighting it instantly...but would there be other changes at a cellular level if you were to actually catch the real virus instead?
2)And is injecting it going to create some other issue you would not have had if you acuired it through normal host to host transmission?
3)Also, do we on a given day ever come into contact with inactivated viruses - or is now introducing something we would never be exposed to otherwise?
4)Is getting a yearly flu shot eliciting too much of an immune response? Normally you do not catch the flu each and every single year, so is it dangerous to keep getting a shot that mimicks that scenario?
5)And, if we begin to overuse vaccines, will we be inadvertantly creating superviruses just like when we began overusing penicillin?

Being so young, I don't want them to get sick and risk those complications, however, I also don't want to mess with their immune systems if there is a chance it can create problems later in life, or leave them with a different immunity than being exposed to real virues would give.

[superwell]

I am willing to accept that the vaccine is relatively safe. My feeling is the government does not want added health care costs due to a bunch of people being sick. If the vaccine weren't safe, those costs would rise due to treating the issues from that.

However, given we are talking about our children in this forum, I am struggling with these questions that I feel apply more to vaccinating the very young vs myself, and I have not been able to find any answers...
1) Is giving an inactivated virus really going to produce the exact same response as having a live virus? I know your body produces antibodies (even to the dead virus) that they feel help to recognize the virus and begin fighting it instantly...but would there be other changes at a cellular level if you were to actually catch the real virus instead?
2)And is injecting it going to create some other issue you would not have had if you acuired it through normal host to host transmission?
3)Also, do we on a given day ever come into contact with inactivated viruses - or is now introducing something we would never be exposed to otherwise?
4)Is getting a yearly flu shot eliciting too much of an immune response? Normally you do not catch the flu each and every single year, so is it dangerous to keep getting a shot that mimicks that scenario?
5)And, if we begin to overuse vaccines, will we be inadvertantly creating superviruses just like when we began overusing penicillin?

Being so young, I don't want them to get sick and risk those complications, however, I also don't want to mess with their immune systems if there is a chance it can create problems later in life, or leave them with a different immunity than being exposed to real virues would give.


I enjoyed reading the latter part of your reply, as it's how i feel. but i do want to touch on the first part about the government not wanting a give the public something that would be worst for them in the long run. What i take on this is it's a double edged sword. On one edge if you give the public a vacine and it works for most people then you have kept what you " figured"
would be the expected number of people out of the hospital. On the other edge you got a senerio that would have us believe that just because the number of people that die or get some type of other sickness from getting the vacine is so small that it must be safe. If it was trully safe then there would be NO side effects, even viagara has a 4 hr side effect..but we are willing to over look that one...but will you over look not being able to breathe on your own for 2-6 weeks because of the side effect. Now don't get me wrong i am not pro or con on this issue..just for the record I am just sharing some information that passes through my head. I just feel that something that is so freely given out should be tested to a greater extent, long periods and with different principles....you must do and redue tests in order to make sure the outcome is always the same..if on one of the outcomes, it's slightly different then the test should be scratched and tests disregarded, as it will not be conclusive. Which is what YOUR government didn't do, but instead they made a second vacine for the pregnent, which btw has more mercury then the regular vacine which goes against everything the givernment tell a pregenant person to do in the first place.

You make the choice...I have...

[manyoo99]

I typically avoid the flu shots every year. The last couple of years my family has not taken the shots and been ok.

However, the H1N1 prevention is in our own hands. I have 2 small kids and seeing the impact of H1N1 on its target group, me and my wife decided to go and get the shots. I can tell you that it was the beginning of all the fun. We went to the Halton clinic yesterday expecting 1-2hrs total time. Once we got there, I can bet there were already 1000+ people in the line. People had parked on Bronte Road as far as 2km away. It was insane....took us 8 hrs to get the shots. Note, the clinic was essentially for 6mo-5yr and at risk patients, but no people were turned away. I applaud all these people staying focused and not losing patience. I also applaud all the nurses that worked through the day and well into the night.

Getting the shot is your own choice. If it is effective, it will certainly help you and others by preventing the flu from spreading. Of course, everyone still needs to take precautions and have good eating habits plus hygiene. But the flu shot should be the first step in prevention. We made this choice yesterday as did a huge number of people....even an 8-10 hr wait did not deter them.

[BobTheSnake]

I had my family vaccinated this afternoon for the H1N1 flu...it's the right choice. Public health offices here in NB won't turn anyone away.

I'm going tonight.

I can't just fathom that something happens to my 3.5 year old daughter because of the H1N1 and I didn't gave her the vaccin. I couldn't live with myself. At least now, if something happens to one of us, we actually did everything we could do.

[bionicbadger]

here is the product information sheet from GSK the company that Canada is getting the vaccines from.
http://www.gsk.ca/english/html/our-products/docs-pdf/Arepanrix_PIL_CAPA01v01.pdf

Some items of note:

Elderly (>60 years): No clinical data are available for Arepanrix™ H1N1 in this age group.

Children and adolescents aged 10-17 years: No clinical data are available for any influenza vaccines with AS03 in this age group.

Children aged 3-9 years: Based on limited clinical data available for AS03-adjuvanted H5N1 vaccine containing 3.75 μg HA derived from A/Vietnam/1194/2004 in this age group

Children aged from 6-35 months: No clinical data are available for influenza vaccines with AS03 in this age group.

That is for dosage and administration. Study seems to be quite "lacking" for something that the government is recommending.

[superwell]

here is the product information sheet from GSK the company that Canada is getting the vaccines from.
http://www.gsk.ca/english/html/our-products/docs-pdf/Arepanrix_PIL_CAPA01v01.pdf

Some items of note:

That is for dosage and administration. Study seems to be quite "lacking" for something that the government is recommending.


I love it. spend 8 hr's in line to get injected with something that not even the company that makes it has proof of anything that it can do. :shake head:

[manyoo99]

I love it. spend 8 hr's in line to get injected with something that not even the company that makes it has proof of anything that it can do. :shake head:

I'd rather take the precautions and wait in line for 8 hrs with 1000s others, than worry about nay-sayers who need proof before taking the shot. Clinical trials are not something that can be completed in a few weeks or months....it takes longer. WHO is actually reducing the clinical trial process for H1N1...read below:


Fast-tracking the H1N1 Vaccine

In order to push the H1N1 vaccine through the clinical trials process quickly, approval will be largely based on data from previous flu vaccines, mainly the H5N1 avian flu virus.

After the spread of bird flu (H5N1) several years ago, a protocol was designed that allowed testing of a generic vaccine into which the part of the vaccine specific to H1N1 could be inserted. This allows for minimal testing of the complete H1N1 vaccine, as the differences between this and the H5N1 vaccine are relatively insignificant.

So, the fast tracking of this vaccine through clinical trials is not as reckless as it seems – only the very minor changes to the vaccine that dictate it’s specificity for the H1N1 strain are being tested, as the main vaccine itself has passed though clinical trials already.

Read more: http://diseases-viruses.suite101.com/article.cfm/clinical_trials_and_the_swine_flu_vaccine#ixzz0VLo IzSJK

[superwell]

I'd rather take the precautions and wait in line for 8 hrs with 1000s others, than worry about nay-sayers who need proof before taking the shot. Clinical trials are not something that can be completed in a few weeks or months....it takes longer. WHO is actually reducing the clinical trial process for H1N1...read below:

The H5n1 is not the same at the H1n1, that is why you need this new shot. Don't kid yourself with taking precautions, if you were cautious you wouldn't take the drug that no one knows about..would you? Wait in line,, that's fine..this is not what this thread is about, what should be known are the facts, and figures before any decision is to be made, that is the logical and senseable thing to do. The thing not to do, is follow the cow in front of you like your in a mcdonald's slaughter house lineup and do the right thing..what is the right thing...what you think is right or what people around you think is right? Just because it there and available doesn't make it safe and the proper thing to do.

Take for instance the new vacine for infants called Rotavirus, it's $80/shot and three are needed. It to is for at type of flu, which we don't want our children to have but if it was ever so important then why would the government not cover it like the rest of the vacines, or like this H1N1 shot? Is it because the company that sells the Rotavirus vacine wouldn't allow the government to put their hands into their pockets to deeply or is it just because they forsaw the H1N1 coming and couldn't afford to cover both. Vacines are there for a reason, i get that, what I don't want anyone to tell me is that it's ok to do it because it the right thing to do..just in case..come on..grow up and make a decision for yourself, rather then what the next best guy tells you is right.

[atb1o1]

I'm waiting.. the first group of people getting the vaccine will be the guinea pigs. Besides, wouldn't waiting in line for 8 hours when a large concentration of people expose you to greater risk of getting H1N1?

[manyoo99]

The H5n1 is not the same at the H1n1, that is why you need this new shot. Don't kid yourself with taking precautions, if you were cautious you wouldn't take the drug that no one knows about..would you? Wait in line,, that's fine..this is not what this thread is about, what should be known are the facts, and figures before any decision is to be made, that is the logical and senseable thing to do. The thing not to do, is follow the cow in front of you like your in a mcdonald's slaughter house lineup and do the right thing..what is the right thing...what you think is right or what people around you think is right? Just because it there and available doesn't make it safe and the proper thing to do.



The article did not indicate that H1N1 is the same as H5N1, but rather points that the differences between the two vaccines are insignificant. That is the reason WHO is fast tracking the clinical trials process and making the vaccine available.

As for getting information, I prefer to trust the medical practitioners including the CMO who are indicating that H1N1 vaccine is the first step in prevention. I do not have a medical background and hence must trust the judgement of people who are skilled in this profession. Just reading a few pages on the internet does not make any one a pro.

Whether a person gets a shot or not is a personal decision. Assuming the clinical trials later prove that the vaccine was indeed effective and I did not get my kids the vaccine due to my "assumed" intelligence or "being cautious", then this decision would haunt me for the rest of my life. This is the reason for my personal choice to get the vaccine as is the case for the many others who got immunized and continue to do so.

Right now there is no alternative to the H1N1 vaccine....so the choice is pretty simple...take the shot or wait and watch. I took the former approach to protect my family and also to ensure that they are not carriers spreading the disease (assuming the vaccine takes effect).

[manyoo99]

I'm waiting.. the first group of people getting the vaccine will be the guinea pigs. Besides, wouldn't waiting in line for 8 hours when a large concentration of people expose you to greater risk of getting H1N1?

Yes the risk of exposure is increase by waiting in line for 8 hrs. Similarly, the risk is increased while watching a movie in a theater for 2 hrs, or eating out in a restuarant (1-2hrs), or taking public transit (2hrs) or at workplace (8+ hrs) or in a school (6-8 hrs).

Guinea pigs.....with one flu shot. You mean to indicate that the health bodies around the world are making guinea pigs out of 1-5yr old kids with this vaccine.

And BTW, all health workers that are administering the vaccine are all immunized with the same vaccine. Maybe they volunteered to be guinea pigs

[atb1o1]

Yes the risk of exposure is increase by waiting in line for 8 hrs. Similarly, the risk is increased while watching a movie in a theater for 2 hrs, or eating out in a restuarant (1-2hrs), or taking public transit (2hrs) or at workplace (8+ hrs) or in a school (6-8 hrs).

Guinea pigs.....with one flu shot. You mean to indicate that the health bodies around the world are making guinea pigs out of 1-5yr old kids with this vaccine.

And BTW, all health workers that are administering the vaccine are all immunized with the same vaccine. Maybe they volunteered to be guinea pigs

Yeah risk is increase if you work in the ER as well, but than I do not work in the ER, don't go to the movies, rarely eat out, don't take public transit, workplace consists of less than 20 people. By all means, if you do all of the above written by manyoo99 and increasing your exposure, go get the vaccine. I'm not advising people not to, in fact I think everyone should so our community can build up a herd immunity. Everyone should start lining up now for the clinics opening tomorrow, go now stop reading and posting and go!!!

[zeddy]

Survival of the fittest! Maybe this is all a big conspiracy to decrease the population enough that we save the ozone layer. Only the biggest leaders know the vaccine is deadly so they aren't getting it but telling us they are and then they can rule the world......

Whatever. There have been a lot of medical advances over the decades that were questioned at first and are now considered life saving. The seasonal flu vaccine has been around long enough and we have had it many times with no effects. The two vaccines are similar except for the part that is specific to H1N1 so I feel it is safe for us.

I'll take my chances. We vaccinated ourselves and our children. Heck, we all gotta go sometime....:cheesygri

[ayeung]

FYI - Kid's echinacea products are selling like hot cakes at health food store. i was looking for a specific brand (organic and purer) and it's sold out at the 3 health food store that I went to in Mississauga. I called Wholefood at Oakville and they said they have it so I drove 20 mins to the store only to realized someone cleared it out as I was driving there!! I was luck to find the last bottle of another brand with echinacea roots.

I was told that elderberry's products are also selling quickly since there was a doctor explaining that it can help cold/flu on TV recently.

[S U]

I thought I'd post here what my pediatrician posted on his website regarding the H1N1. He doesn't take a particular stance either way.:|



H1N1 is the topic of discussion for parents and patients. I have been asked to put together a simple summary so parents can understand what is going on and what to do.

H1N1

There has been a lot of controversy around H1N1. Parents are very concerned in light of recent events and the death of a 13 year old child. It has been difficult for physicians as well as parents. There is a lot of information out there, but in the end more questions than answers. I have been asked repeatedly about this topic. A few weeks ago my answer regarding the vaccine was “I am not sure yet, I don’t know”. This seemed to be the response from most of my colleagues as well. Until recently we were told the vaccine would be available for children under 5 only. This did not make any sense to me, and so I was not keen on giving the vaccine. Now we are told we have plenty of vaccine and that I can give the vaccine to children of any age. Many decisions or recommendations are being made for political and financial reasons, but it is difficult for us to sort out what is important.


I will try and outline important facts about H1N1 advice about how to proceed.

What is H1N1?

There is confusion about influenza and H1N1. Influenza is a type of virus. There are 3 main types of influenza- A,B and C. Type A and B are the usual ones that cause disease in humans. Type A is the only type to have caused pandemics. There are subtypes of influenza A- H1, H2, H3 etc. The bird flu (avian flu) that was talked about is an H5 type.

H1N1 is a very specific strain of Influenza A. It is a new strain of virus that started in Mexico. New strains of virus are more likely to cause outbreaks since people do not have immunity to it.

SARS was caused by a different type of virus called coronovirus.

What symptoms does it cause?

H1N1 causes a typical flu. Children get fever, sore throat, aches and pains, fatigue, headache, cough, vomiting and diarrhea. You can have any combination of these symptoms. Most of the children we are seeing have a mild illness with fever, sore throat aches and pains and some cough.

A more severe respiratory problem like pneumonia can develop as a complication of flu. Symptoms to be more concerned about are rapid breathing, chest pain, blue colour, severe fatigue.

What makes H1N1 different from the regular seasonal flu that we see?

H1N1 seems to affect younger people. The experience so far is that almost 3/4 of the cases occur in ages under 24. The highest rate of hospitalization is in young children. We see hospitalization, complication and death with regular seasonal flu occurring in elderly people, and people with underlying illness that predisposes them and places them at risk. We do see young, healthy people getting severe cases of seasonal flu, but this occurs much less often than with H1N1.


It is difficult to determine exact numbers for risk since milder cases of H1N1 are not reported. Probably the chance of severe complications or death with H1N1 is 1 in 100,000 people who do not have underlying illness.

How does H1N1 spread?

People with H1N1 will shed virus by coughing, sneezing and breathing. The shed of virus can occur about 1 day BEFORE they seem ill, and can continue for about a week. People ill with flu like symptoms should stay home for a week. The chance of spreading H1N1 to others around you at work, school or at home is at least 20%.

The H1N1 vaccine:

How is this vaccine different from the regular seasonal flu shot:

The H1N1 vaccine is specifically prepared for H1N1 strain. With the adjuvant vaccine you get 90% immunity within 2 weeks of the vaccine. The seasonal flu shot is prepared ahead of the flu season and is a guess at what strains will be around. This means that it will only be traditionally 15-20% effective against seasonal flu.

What is Thimerosal.

Thimerosal is a preservative used in some vaccines. It is in the usual seasonal flu shot as well as the hepatitis B shot done in grade 7 at school. It does contain mercury, but the type of mercury ( ethyl mercury) is different from the one found in the environment and in fish ( methyl mercury) and is eliminated much quicker from the body. It is felt to be safe.

What is the difference between the adjuvant and non- adjuvant vaccines?

Adjuvant is a substance added to a vaccine to help it work better. With H1N1 the adjuvant vaccine has less viral material, requires only 1 dose to be effective and may be affective against mutations of the virus in the future. The non-adjuvant vaccine has 4 times more viral material in the vaccine to allow it to work, needs 2 doses and will not help with mutations in the virus.

Adjuvants have been using in many vaccines. The usual seasonal flu shot does not have adjuvant. In Europe they have been using adjuvant in the flu shot for more than 10 years.

Which vaccine do I do for my children?

There has been a lot of controversy about which vaccine to do. From our knowledge it seems that the adjuvant vaccine is safe and the immunity will be quicker. Although they originally suggested adjuvant free vaccine in younger children ( less than 3), this vaccine in not available yet. When it becomes available, it will be given to pregnant women only. Since H1N1 is spreading so quickly and there are still unknowns about how severe it will be for young children, I would not hesitate to give the vaccine with adjuvant if you want it. The clinics are currently giving adjuvant vaccine for all children over 6 months. Children over 9 and adults get a full dose of vaccine once. Children 6 months to 8 years get half dose. Currently it is recommended that they get a second dose 3-4 weeks later, but this recommendation might change since the immunity from the adjuvant vaccine seems good and one 1/2 dose may suffice for younger children.

Are adjuvants safe?

The one used in the Canadian H1N1 vaccine is AS03. This is similar to the one used in Europe (MF59) which has proven safe over the past 10 years. Squalene is another component of adjuvant. This again has been used in the European flu shot and has not been associated with any problems in Europe. There is a lot of talk about “gulf war syndrome” and people concerned that this was caused by squalene. This idea is based on poor studies and more recent, larger studies have proven this theory wrong.

Is egg allergy a problem?

Yes. The H1N1 vaccine is made with egg. If you are allergic you cannot take it.


What does this all mean?????


The above information is helpful, but most parents want to know what to do.


Basically the chance of your child getting H1N1 is high. There is a lot of it around and most people with flu symptoms have the H1N1 strain since this is the predominant strain around. Most people get a typical flu. Staying home, getting rest, taking tylenol, advil, motrin etc for fever and aches and pains is good. Drinking lots of fluids, chicken soup and comfort foods is good.


Seeing a doctor is important when the fever persists, cough is bad, there is rapid breathing or distress with breathing, vomiting or diarrhea or if the child seems very lethargic.


There is no need to panic. Severe cases of H1N1 are rare- lets say about 1 in 100,000 cases. The chance of your child becoming very ill is rare.


We us Tamiflu ( a medication for influenza A ) in some cases. This is used in the first 48 hours of symptoms and only if there are risk factors for a child ( bad asthma, heart condition etc), or if they present with fever and signs of pneumonia. Children are hospitalized if they are ill enough to require hospital attention, usually for dehydration or severe respiratory problems like pneumonia.


Bacterial complications like pneumonia and ear infections can develop during the course of the flu, so children need to be reassessed every couple of days if their symptoms are worsening, or fever is persisting.

Do I do the vaccine?
Answer the following questions:
-does you child have an underlying condition ( asthma, heart condition, diabetes etc)?
-do you want to help decrease the spread of this disease to others who could get very ill with the flu?
-are you concerned with the rare chance ( about 1 in 100,000 cases ) of a severe or catastrophic illness in your child?

If you answered yes to any of the above, do the vaccine. It is effective and safe.

The other consideration is that this vaccine is specific for H1N1. Unlike the traditional flu shot, this will work to prevent the most common flu around. You must decide if you would rather have a shot in the arm, with some arm pain for a day or two, and fever for a day or two or would you rather have the flu with fever for a few days, aches and pains, cough etc. with a chance of something more severe. We are seeing lots of flu, it is mostly mild, but not a lot of fun, so you decide.

[CharlieSheen911]

The vaccine is untested and very different (and not in a good way) from past vaccines. It has mercury, squalene, and other very harmful chemicals. Its way better to let your body fight off any virus on its own. This vaccine is going to kill many people just like in 1976. Its a gold mine for drug companies who also control the mainstream media. Thats why it is being hyped 24/7.

Look what it has already done to many people including that Redskins cheerleader. It is actually meant to give you the flu. Don't take it. Do your research. Your kids health is on the line. Don't be stupid.

[matradley]

The vaccine is untested and very different (and not in a good way) from past vaccines. It has mercury, squalene, and other very harmful chemicals. Its way better to let your body fight off any virus on its own. This vaccine is going to kill many people just like in 1976. Its a gold mine for drug companies who also control the mainstream media. Thats why it is being hyped 24/7.

Look what it has already done to many people including that Redskins cheerleader. It is actually meant to give you the flu. Don't take it. Do your research. Your kids health is on the line. Don't be stupid.
Your references please. :)

[thrifty1]

I thought I'd post here what my pediatrician posted on his website regarding the H1N1. He doesn't take a particular stance either way.:|



H1N1 is the topic of discussion for parents and patients. I have been asked to put together a simple summary so parents can understand what is going on and what to do.

H1N1

There has been a lot of controversy around H1N1. Parents are very concerned in light of recent events and the death of a 13 year old child. It has been difficult for physicians as well as parents. There is a lot of information out there, but in the end more questions than answers. I have been asked repeatedly about this topic. A few weeks ago my answer regarding the vaccine was “I am not sure yet, I don’t know”. This seemed to be the response from most of my colleagues as well. Until recently we were told the vaccine would be available for children under 5 only. This did not make any sense to me, and so I was not keen on giving the vaccine. Now we are told we have plenty of vaccine and that I can give the vaccine to children of any age. Many decisions or recommendations are being made for political and financial reasons, but it is difficult for us to sort out what is important.


I will try and outline important facts about H1N1 advice about how to proceed.

What is H1N1?

There is confusion about influenza and H1N1. Influenza is a type of virus. There are 3 main types of influenza- A,B and C. Type A and B are the usual ones that cause disease in humans. Type A is the only type to have caused pandemics. There are subtypes of influenza A- H1, H2, H3 etc. The bird flu (avian flu) that was talked about is an H5 type.

H1N1 is a very specific strain of Influenza A. It is a new strain of virus that started in Mexico. New strains of virus are more likely to cause outbreaks since people do not have immunity to it.

SARS was caused by a different type of virus called coronovirus.

What symptoms does it cause?

H1N1 causes a typical flu. Children get fever, sore throat, aches and pains, fatigue, headache, cough, vomiting and diarrhea. You can have any combination of these symptoms. Most of the children we are seeing have a mild illness with fever, sore throat aches and pains and some cough.

A more severe respiratory problem like pneumonia can develop as a complication of flu. Symptoms to be more concerned about are rapid breathing, chest pain, blue colour, severe fatigue.

What makes H1N1 different from the regular seasonal flu that we see?

H1N1 seems to affect younger people. The experience so far is that almost 3/4 of the cases occur in ages under 24. The highest rate of hospitalization is in young children. We see hospitalization, complication and death with regular seasonal flu occurring in elderly people, and people with underlying illness that predisposes them and places them at risk. We do see young, healthy people getting severe cases of seasonal flu, but this occurs much less often than with H1N1.


It is difficult to determine exact numbers for risk since milder cases of H1N1 are not reported. Probably the chance of severe complications or death with H1N1 is 1 in 100,000 people who do not have underlying illness.

How does H1N1 spread?

People with H1N1 will shed virus by coughing, sneezing and breathing. The shed of virus can occur about 1 day BEFORE they seem ill, and can continue for about a week. People ill with flu like symptoms should stay home for a week. The chance of spreading H1N1 to others around you at work, school or at home is at least 20%.

The H1N1 vaccine:

How is this vaccine different from the regular seasonal flu shot:

The H1N1 vaccine is specifically prepared for H1N1 strain. With the adjuvant vaccine you get 90% immunity within 2 weeks of the vaccine. The seasonal flu shot is prepared ahead of the flu season and is a guess at what strains will be around. This means that it will only be traditionally 15-20% effective against seasonal flu.

What is Thimerosal.

Thimerosal is a preservative used in some vaccines. It is in the usual seasonal flu shot as well as the hepatitis B shot done in grade 7 at school. It does contain mercury, but the type of mercury ( ethyl mercury) is different from the one found in the environment and in fish ( methyl mercury) and is eliminated much quicker from the body. It is felt to be safe.

What is the difference between the adjuvant and non- adjuvant vaccines?

Adjuvant is a substance added to a vaccine to help it work better. With H1N1 the adjuvant vaccine has less viral material, requires only 1 dose to be effective and may be affective against mutations of the virus in the future. The non-adjuvant vaccine has 4 times more viral material in the vaccine to allow it to work, needs 2 doses and will not help with mutations in the virus.

Adjuvants have been using in many vaccines. The usual seasonal flu shot does not have adjuvant. In Europe they have been using adjuvant in the flu shot for more than 10 years.

Which vaccine do I do for my children?

There has been a lot of controversy about which vaccine to do. From our knowledge it seems that the adjuvant vaccine is safe and the immunity will be quicker. Although they originally suggested adjuvant free vaccine in younger children ( less than 3), this vaccine in not available yet. When it becomes available, it will be given to pregnant women only. Since H1N1 is spreading so quickly and there are still unknowns about how severe it will be for young children, I would not hesitate to give the vaccine with adjuvant if you want it. The clinics are currently giving adjuvant vaccine for all children over 6 months. Children over 9 and adults get a full dose of vaccine once. Children 6 months to 8 years get half dose. Currently it is recommended that they get a second dose 3-4 weeks later, but this recommendation might change since the immunity from the adjuvant vaccine seems good and one 1/2 dose may suffice for younger children.

Are adjuvants safe?

The one used in the Canadian H1N1 vaccine is AS03. This is similar to the one used in Europe (MF59) which has proven safe over the past 10 years. Squalene is another component of adjuvant. This again has been used in the European flu shot and has not been associated with any problems in Europe. There is a lot of talk about “gulf war syndrome” and people concerned that this was caused by squalene. This idea is based on poor studies and more recent, larger studies have proven this theory wrong.

Is egg allergy a problem?

Yes. The H1N1 vaccine is made with egg. If you are allergic you cannot take it.


What does this all mean?????


The above information is helpful, but most parents want to know what to do.


Basically the chance of your child getting H1N1 is high. There is a lot of it around and most people with flu symptoms have the H1N1 strain since this is the predominant strain around. Most people get a typical flu. Staying home, getting rest, taking tylenol, advil, motrin etc for fever and aches and pains is good. Drinking lots of fluids, chicken soup and comfort foods is good.


Seeing a doctor is important when the fever persists, cough is bad, there is rapid breathing or distress with breathing, vomiting or diarrhea or if the child seems very lethargic.


There is no need to panic. Severe cases of H1N1 are rare- lets say about 1 in 100,000 cases. The chance of your child becoming very ill is rare.


We us Tamiflu ( a medication for influenza A ) in some cases. This is used in the first 48 hours of symptoms and only if there are risk factors for a child ( bad asthma, heart condition etc), or if they present with fever and signs of pneumonia. Children are hospitalized if they are ill enough to require hospital attention, usually for dehydration or severe respiratory problems like pneumonia.


Bacterial complications like pneumonia and ear infections can develop during the course of the flu, so children need to be reassessed every couple of days if their symptoms are worsening, or fever is persisting.

Do I do the vaccine?
Answer the following questions:
-does you child have an underlying condition ( asthma, heart condition, diabetes etc)?
-do you want to help decrease the spread of this disease to others who could get very ill with the flu?
-are you concerned with the rare chance ( about 1 in 100,000 cases ) of a severe or catastrophic illness in your child?

If you answered yes to any of the above, do the vaccine. It is effective and safe.

The other consideration is that this vaccine is specific for H1N1. Unlike the traditional flu shot, this will work to prevent the most common flu around. You must decide if you would rather have a shot in the arm, with some arm pain for a day or two, and fever for a day or two or would you rather have the flu with fever for a few days, aches and pains, cough etc. with a chance of something more severe. We are seeing lots of flu, it is mostly mild, but not a lot of fun, so you decide.


Looks like this doc thinks " 1 - 100.000 " chances of having a serious problem with the flu if you get it , some say that chances of an adverse reaction or complication with the shot are probably as great ... and you may not even get the flu either way . And if you have already been exposed to the flu ( which many have ) you have antibodies already
More hmmmmmmmmms ???

[Whiplash7828]

well....I read up on this for several weeks now and gave it a lot of thought with my wife. My wife is 40 weeks pregnant and is expected to give birth tomorrow and we have a 3 year old son.

We have decided to have them both vaccinated due to the presence of a newborn at home (shortly). I will get the shot when it is available to the general population. The reality is that if any of us were to get sick (with any flu) there would be cause for real concern regarding the spread to the newborn. This is not something we wish to gamble with.

The vaccine can have side-effects....sure...I can understand that....any medical intervention can....but frankly I can live with complications of something that was recommended by health authorities....but I would have a real hard time dealing with severe complications resulting from us not following doctor recommendations.

My wife's ob/gyn recommended the vaccine and that is good enough for us.

At the end of the day there are far worse things that most people put in their bodies every day and don't give any second thought to (alcohol that kills people on the roads EVERY day), drugs, fast-food, etc. All these things will have a long-term impact on your health. There are also plenty of toxins in the air we breathe that will inevitably cause long-term illness in many (one can only assume). I am not saying it's ok because there's worse...but if people really want to pick a fight with something...pick a fight against pollution and mal-nutrition...because it will render ill and kill much more people than this vaccine...or virus.

[zeddy]

The vaccine is untested and very different (and not in a good way) from past vaccines. It has mercury, squalene, and other very harmful chemicals. Its way better to let your body fight off any virus on its own. This vaccine is going to kill many people just like in 1976. Its a gold mine for drug companies who also control the mainstream media. Thats why it is being hyped 24/7.

Look what it has already done to many people including that Redskins cheerleader. It is actually meant to give you the flu. Don't take it. Do your research. Your kids health is on the line. Don't be stupid.

If you watch and LISTEN to what is reported in that video the cheerleader had a seasonal - not H1N1 vaccine - a seasonal flu vaccine in August. Why was she having a vaccine so early? The closer to the actual flu season the better. Around here that is mid to late winter. And the video was made by Inside Edition. I have yet to see it on mainstream tv.....things that make you go hmmmm.....You're right, don't be stupid. Get your info from reliable sources. Last I checked more people wouldn't consider Inside Edition one of them. Also, what were her underlying conditions? Was it really the vaccine or the bad batch of coccaine she snorted?

[mart242]

Interesting "facts":

- The United States did not purchase adjuvanted vaccines, and the nasal (live) vaccine does not contain thimerosol. The United States has not used thimerosal in children's vaccines since 2006.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/280927

- health care workers in new york now have the right to not get the vaccine...
http://kdka.com/topstories/health.workers.h1n1.2.1252752.html

[superwell]

For all you guys still on the fence..here read this:

http://www.canada.com/health/swine-flu/Health+Canada+takes+word+others+H1N1+vaccine+safe/2139111/story.html

For all you that said that they wouldn't just put something out there just for the fact that they don't want people at the emergency rooms....LOL some of you are just following what you read and jump on it so fast that it really makes me wonder what would happen if a real epidemic were to really happen.

[mart242]

For all you guys still on the fence..here read this:

http://www.canada.com/health/swine-flu/Health+Canada+takes+word+others+H1N1+vaccine+safe/2139111/story.html

Thanks for the link. Sadly, I'm not even surprised by that.. I guess we'll know in a few months or years if the vaccine was safe or not..

[Whiplash7828]

For all you guys still on the fence..here read this:

http://www.canada.com/health/swine-flu/Health+Canada+takes+word+others+H1N1+vaccine+safe/2139111/story.html

For all you that said that they wouldn't just put something out there just for the fact that they don't want people at the emergency rooms....LOL some of you are just following what you read and jump on it so fast that it really makes me wonder what would happen if a real epidemic were to really happen.

Not one bit surprised...or bothered...this is 2009....why in the world would the vaccine need to be tested on canadians if it was tested on half the planet already (southern hemisphere)??

globalization....ring a bell?

[superwell]

Not one bit surprised...or bothered...this is 2009....why in the world would the vaccine need to be tested on canadians if it was tested on half the planet already (southern hemisphere)??

globalization....ring a bell?

That's not the point. Did you read the article? If you did then you would understand that the CDN governement bought something that was tested on 130 people, between 18-60 years old. I beat not one of them was pregnant. Not to mention that then they want me to inject it into my 6 month old. Follow along...follow along. We will see in a few years what really happens.

[hungryfordeals]

The vaccine is untested and very different (and not in a good way) from past vaccines. It has mercury, squalene, and other very harmful chemicals. Its way better to let your body fight off any virus on its own. This vaccine is going to kill many people just like in 1976. Its a gold mine for drug companies who also control the mainstream media. Thats why it is being hyped 24/7.

Look what it has already done to many people including that Redskins cheerleader. It is actually meant to give you the flu. Don't take it. Do your research. Your kids health is on the line. Don't be stupid.

Hello Hugger, this is me, Tree...Oh, that's right...9/11 was also the work of the U.S. government in your opinion. Got the shots for my kids and all you conspiracy theorists can shut the h*** up. If we want it, we'll get it. We're not brainwashed.

BTW-as smart as your avatar, I can only assume. Sheen=IQ of a grape

[Fx45]

If Cold FX has kids version, I would give them to my LO too.

Cold FX if you read the ingredients is basic a whole lot of ginseng. You can just make some ginseng tea and give it to them.

[sixer]

The vaccine is untested and very different (and not in a good way) from past vaccines. It has mercury, squalene, and other very harmful chemicals. Its way better to let your body fight off any virus on its own. This vaccine is going to kill many people just like in 1976. Its a gold mine for drug companies who also control the mainstream media. Thats why it is being hyped 24/7.

Look what it has already done to many people including that Redskins cheerleader. It is actually meant to give you the flu. Don't take it. Do your research. Your kids health is on the line. Don't be stupid.

Doctors agree in regards to the adjuvent vaccine and and that the components in them have been used in many vaccines and found to be safe. Squalene is a normal metabolite found in everyone's blood at all times. Tocopherol is vitamin E. Polysorbate is in all kinds of things we consume, including ice cream. Thimerosal is a preservative to maintain vaccine sterility, and the mercury in it is bonded to an ethyl group (not a methyl group, like the mercury in fish), so your body excretes it right away and there are no health problems. All existing data points to the vaccine and adjuvant being safe.

In regards to that cheerleader, she has severe dysteria. She had a underlying neurological condition which triggered that severity of dysteria. Don't kid yourself, when the majority of people have reactions that severe to a flu shot, they already had something wrong with them.

Sometimes it's just easy to blame the vaccine.

For example, say 500,000 pregnant women get the vaccine. Out that many, there will be in a normal pregnant woman a couple who have a miscarriage.
As result, when it happens a couple weeks after getting the vaccine, automatically the blame is put on it.

ps. The drug company was already making money years before when they established a contract. Do you think planning just started? A pandemic plan with 75% of the vaccine including manufacturing plan existing for quite a while.

Take your garbage elsewhere, it pisses me off when people like you scare others. There is more mercury in a can of tuna then the vaccine and more formaldahyde in a banana then in the vaccine.

What you don't understand is that if you have a severe case and require a ventilator to help you breathe there won't be one available in a hospital as it's will be full with younger more nicer deserving people then you on it.

[Kuurgen]

This is agony. My wife is dead set against it, however, seeing a kid wrecked on 60 minutes with H1N1 has made me sit up and take notice.

I am not a panicky kinda person, if I decide not to get these shots and one of my kids get dreadfully sick I would hate myself for not getting this vaccine.

On the other hand, it's really a double edged sword as this vaccine is a very quick response to a threat that health officials are taking very seriously.

There's no benefit of hindsight with this stuff, it's a crap shoot. Get H1N1 or maybe down the road get a whole set of problems associated with the marginally tested vaccines.

I haven't researched to see if the school boards have weighed in as to whether they are going to make these shots mandatory, but I am assuming they are giving themselves minimum liability with this.

It bothers me that every morning I send them off to school where they can contract this illness.

I'm leaning towards getting the vaccine, I've basically not been paying much attention to the H1N1 media frenzy, but I guess that 60 Minutes piece made me pay attention. I mean they are treating egg farms as vital to national security. (the egg farmers were the first to get the shots, according to the news article)

This is just not easy, and as fellow parents, I wonder how you guys are looking at this.

[Whiplash7828]

just keep in mind that the vaccine is a spinoff of the regular flu vaccine which HAS been tested for years. The components in the vaccine (squalene, thimerosal, etc.) have been used in european vaccines for over 10 years.

Is there even a single industrialized country that has not approved the vaccine?

[mart242]

This is just not easy, and as fellow parents, I wonder how you guys are looking at this.

Meh.. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I was at the clinic last night with my two kids and wife that were coughing badly (but no fever so I knew that it wasn't h1n1, it's another viral influenza) and the doctor / nurse weren't really worried about h1n1. They too believed that the media put way too much emphasis on it.

As for the govt, they acted quickly but it's not necessarily to save all the population from a pandemic that would kill millions.. I believe that it's mostly the case of if they didn't do anything, 1/2 the canadians (those who want the shot) and other countries (that have implemented the vaccine rapidly) would blame Canada for not doing anything.

I believe that all that money would have been better put towards cancer research for which 1/3 of the population will get it some day.. and with that, you've got even more chances of dying.

yes, it's sad, kids will die of the flu but you can't save everyone. Get the shot = something could go wrong. Don't get the shot = something could go wrong as well. It's only the flu so I'm not really worried. My doc also doesn't recommend the shot for the kids less than 3yrs because their brain are still developing rapidly at that age and he considers the h1n1 shot as unnecessary.

[mart242]

Is there even a single industrialized country that has not approved the vaccine?

Aren't they all approving it because X country has approved it? ie: just like canada did.

[hagbard]

just keep in mind that the vaccine is a spinoff of the regular flu vaccine which HAS been tested for years. The components in the vaccine (squalene, thimerosal, etc.) have been used in european vaccines for over 10 years.

Is there even a single industrialized country that has not approved the vaccine?

The United States.

Heard a new theory (for me at least) regarding vaccinations and infections in pregnant woman and autism and schizophrenia. And no, its not about Thiomersal but an immune response to the vaccine/infection that effects the fetus brain development. In reality, you're chances of catching the H1N1 and getting sick (certainly sick enough to be admitted to hospital) is quite low.

If this theory holds true, we can expect an "unexplained" increase in the number of autistic kids in the very near future and schizophrenics in twenty years. At least my daughter will have lots of autistic friends to play with.

[Whiplash7828]

The United States.

Heard a new theory (for me at least) regarding vaccinations and infections in pregnant woman and autism and schizophrenia. And no, its not about Thiomersal but an immune response to the vaccine/infection that effects the fetus brain development. In reality, you're chances of catching the H1N1 and getting sick (certainly sick enough to be admitted to hospital) is quite low.

If this theory holds true, we can expect an "unexplained" increase in the number of autistic kids in the very near future and schizophrenics in twenty years. At least my daughter will have lots of autistic friends to play with.

Your comment in bold is quite classless and shows your true fear monger nature. nuff said.


Aren't they all approving it because X country has approved it? ie: just like canada did.

I don't know...it was not meant as a smartass comment...it was an actual question. :)

[hagbard]

Your comment in bold is quite classless and shows your true fear monger nature. nuff said.



I'm debating whether or not to report you. If your really that dense, let me spell it out for you. My daughter does have autism, and I'd very much like no other child (or parent) to go through it. My remark was sarcasm and a warning for people to use caution hence they find themselves in the same boat as us. Now stfu.

[Whiplash7828]

and that was obvious? :confused:
and report me for what??? for being offended by a comment you made? :confused:

Clearly you have personal experiences which render you sensitive to the topic of vaccines (and I do feel for what you have gone through with your daughter)...
I will not continue this discussion with you.