Its totally illegal and wrong to send a Canadian child to China,” [Archive]

thomsonst780

Nov 2nd, 2009, 03:26 PM

I'm so pleased that Canada is enlightened enough to not send this child back to China. I hope the Chinese gov't repeals this oppressive law one day.

Single mother can stay because of Chinese one-child law

Single mom Hong Zhang’s dream came true today as she was made a permanent resident of Canada after an emotional six-year battle fighting China’s one-child policy.

An ecstatic Zhang, 41, and daughter Sherry, 4, were given a letter saying they were accepted as immigrants in a landmark case in which she claimed to face huge fines and stigmatization if deported to China, where it illegal to have children out of wedlock.

“I am so excited by the good news,” Zhang said after a hearing at a Watline Ave. immigration office, in Mississauga. “It has been a long and difficult time for Sherry and me.”

The decision will open the door for other women in the same situation, who can’t return to China or other countries, her counsel and immigration officials said.

Zhang, a labourer, plans to take out citizenship in two years and obtain documents to take Sherry to China to visit her grandparents.
“I want to give my daughter a good future in Canada,” she said. “I plan on going to school to take courses to updgrade myself.”

Zhang came to Canada in 1997 and filed an unsuccessful refugee claim. During that time she gave birth to Sherry. Her consultant Roy Kellogg said other women will seek refuge in Canada after hearing of Zhang’s plight.

“Its totally illegal and wrong to send a Canadian child to China,” Kellogg said yesterday. “We have 11 similar cases being processed at this time.”

He said deported single mothers face a fine of about $140,000 a child when they return to China with children. They do not receive health coverage or allowed to attend school or obtain Chinese citizenship.

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/?src=http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/11/02/chineseweb.jpg&size=248x186

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/11/02/11608331.html

gflux

Nov 2nd, 2009, 03:30 PM

if deported to China, where it illegal to have children out of wedlock.

Wow! I did not know that.

Keigotw

Nov 2nd, 2009, 04:31 PM

So all chinese woman can became Canadian now, all they have to do is come here and have 2 or more children........ birth of new immigration :p

slowtyper

Nov 2nd, 2009, 04:35 PM

So all chinese woman can became Canadian now, all they have to do is come here and have 2 or more children........ birth of new immigration :p

She only had one child I believe. I think this is kind of an iffy call. I know many families in China with more than one child...its not really like they will shame you because of it. You just pay more taxes.

Seems like the big thing here is that the child was born here which makes them a Canadian Citizen. I'm positive this isn't the first case so I'm curious what happened in past cases.

45ED

Nov 2nd, 2009, 04:42 PM

So all chinese woman can became Canadian now, all they have to do is come here and have 2 or more children........ birth of new immigration :p

They may call it the One Child policy, but it seems more like a policy on having children in general.

In this case, the woman had one child, but was unmarried when she became pregnant.

Seems like union + one child = government "ok", where the child is a result of a union between two married persons. But in her situation, unmarried persons + one child = the government will sic it's wrath on your arse.

This isn't intended for flame-baiting, but I am amazed at how the mother is the one being fined and potentially stigmatized while the article makes no mention of the father. I could understand how the mother would possibly want the father to avoid trouble (I assume he is still in China), but the way this article is written (or not written) makes it seem as if the other party bears no responsibility for creating a child. Anyone know about the One Child policy enough to briefly describe what troubles, if any, the father goes through for contributing to baby making out of wedlock?

Nikita

Nov 2nd, 2009, 05:11 PM

So all chinese woman can became Canadian now, all they have to do is come here and have 2 or more children........ birth of new immigration :p

OMG, now we're going to have an epidemic of Chinese women immigrating to Canada...we're finished now, life as we know it is over!...:rolleyes:

I say kudos to the Canadian government for this very humane decision.

sxz

Nov 2nd, 2009, 05:13 PM

“I plan on going to school to take courses to updgrade myself.”

Marvelous.

Hope this doesn't get abused.

Keigotw

Nov 2nd, 2009, 05:45 PM

OMG, now we're going to have an epidemic of Chinese women immigrating to Canada...we're finished now, life as we know it is over!...:rolleyes:

I say kudos to the Canadian government for this very humane decision.
ya BUT
waning to all guys in Canada, becareful or you may be like this guy
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1649407

I have also hear many girls runing off after they get their Canadian ID

Hairball

Nov 2nd, 2009, 05:53 PM

So it's illegal to have children out of wedlock in China? That point really surprises me.

But the fact that they mention the one child policy is totally irrelevant anyway as she only had one child. While life in China isn't fair, but this really just opens the door for others to come do the same thing (and it will happen). In that sense it is concerning.

Strategy

Nov 2nd, 2009, 05:54 PM

Marvelous.

Hope this doesn't get abused.

This whole "abusing thing" is what's worrying me...

The success of this woman will lead to others trying now

teknoluv

Nov 2nd, 2009, 05:55 PM

I'm so pleased that Canada is enlightened enough to not send this child back to China. I hope the Chinese gov't repeals this oppressive law one day.
Why is this not a political thread?

Keigotw

Nov 2nd, 2009, 05:56 PM

feet_

Nov 2nd, 2009, 06:08 PM

ya BUT
waning to all guys in Canada, becareful or you may be like this guy
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1649407

I have also hear many girls runing off after they get their Canadian ID

its true.

a CDN husband/wife sponsers spouse to become a PR.
in the sponsership agreement. if spouse runs off and applies for welfare.
CDN spouse has to pay back the gov't of whatever the gov't gave to the new PR.

so be berry careful....

Nikita

Nov 2nd, 2009, 06:24 PM

ya BUT
waning to all guys in Canada, becareful or you may be like this guy
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1649407

I have also hear many girls runing off after they get their Canadian ID

From your link:

How to deport someone in canada ? a chinese woman tricked me , we married, she got her permanent resident card and then told me to buss off. her name is Hui Shang Ji, tony italiano

How do you know she tricked him? Just cuz he says so? How do you know why she left him? How do you know why the relationship didn't work out? Cuz he says why? How do you know anything by 2 sentences posted by some guy who may simply be bitter that she left him...for what could be any of a million reasons. Maybe if the guy hadn't been a dink and gone looking for a foreign bride, he might have saved himself a lot of grief. IMO he's the idiot, IF he's even being honest.

Warning to all the girls in Canada...guys do the same thing. Men and women have been doing this kind of thing forever and the world hasn't ended yet. In fact, many many marriages of people from foreign countries work out quite well.

This whole "abusing thing" is what's worrying me...

The success of this woman will lead to others trying now

You say that like it's a bad thing. Why?

ya there will be tons of single mothers

LOL...oh and the fearmongering crap sets in...:rolleyes: Why am I not surprised?

hugh_da_man

Nov 2nd, 2009, 07:15 PM

she claimed to face huge fines and stigmatization if deported to China

Zhang, a labourer, plans to take out citizenship in two years and obtain documents to take Sherry to China

sigh...why don't people just follow the rules and apply through the normal channels? This lady should have been sent back in 1997 before she even had the kid.

Chinese people should be insulted that she's making them look bad just to get into Canada. She has all these problems with going back to China but she'll be going back there as soon as she gets her citizenship...nice :rolleyes:

metrojet

Nov 2nd, 2009, 08:43 PM

Sounds like this was "planned", I'm more interested in knowing how much "hard working" Canadian Taxpayers' money was spent during her+1 entire ordeal from refugee claim till today.

The final ruling was obvious, no government would break up any family on purpose. Just think of the backlash it would create, no politician would put their face or reputation because of this.

Now any women from any country can drop by as a visitor, give birth to a child, guaranteed "citizenship" without following proper procedures that other people around the world have done. I know some families that spent years trying to getting an immigration spot and it cost them a fair bit. This lady +1 got it done all free of charge.

najibs

Nov 2nd, 2009, 08:48 PM

All you young a single RFDers stuck to their computers playing WOW right now....this might be your chance to get laid tonight....go out and look for single Chinese immigrant women who are not yet Canadian citizens and are now looking to get prego :twisted:

Strategy

Nov 2nd, 2009, 10:09 PM

Strategy

Nov 2nd, 2009, 10:11 PM

From your link:

You say that like it's a bad thing. Why?

I just think some Chinese people will see this as a loophole to immigrate into Canada for the wrong reasons. (ie; they could say it's for the same reasons this woman had but could have a totally different mindset about wanting to come here)

Nikita

Nov 2nd, 2009, 10:41 PM

I just think some Chinese people will see this as a loophole to immigrate into Canada for the wrong reasons. (ie; they could say it's for the same reasons this woman had but could have a totally different mindset about wanting to come here)

Well then maybe our government should close the 'loophole' and just make these situations legal.

First of all she was already here in the process of claiming refugee status when she got pregnant. She hadn't been turned down yet, so she had no reason to get pregnant as a way to get in as she had no reason to think she wouldn't get refugee status. And do you really think her case should have been judged based on what I believe is an assumption that this is going to open the floodgates to a bunch of unwanted people? Under our law cases are NOT ever supposed to be judged on what might happen, but on the facts and circumstances of each and individual case. It would be totally unfair to send her back if she was otherwise deemed entitled by the tribunal as eligible to stay just to put these baseless fearmongering assumptions to rest and make people feel safe....from god knows what!

Further, I still don't get why even if this does set a precedent, people see it as a problem. This woman wasn't leaching off the system, she was gainfully employed, she has plans for the future. She's hardly anyone worth worrying about.

Lastly, under the circumstances she faced in returning to China, it was the morally right thing to do and I personally hope the government continues to let people like her in. I just don't get what it is that people are so afraid of...being taken over by a bazillion pregnant chinese women?

The bottom line is nobody has any reason, other than prejudice, to think she got pregnant simply as a reason to stay here or that this will start a 'trend' or something of other women coming here and getting pregnant just so they can stay here. Just as there is no reason to think that those trying to scam their way in will actually be allowed to stay. As I said, every case is judged on it's own facts and circumstances. It's all just baseless assumptions and bias IMO.

Hairball

Nov 2nd, 2009, 10:52 PM

brunes

Nov 2nd, 2009, 11:06 PM

This whole "abusing thing" is what's worrying me...

The success of this woman will lead to others trying now

How can it be "abused" ?

The population of Canada is on the decline. We need to attract immigrants, otherwise no one will be around to fund your OAS when you retire.

corrupt123

Nov 2nd, 2009, 11:08 PM

So when do we start the countdown to hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants coming over and crapping out kids while the system races to send them back...

Chinese people should be insulted that she's making them look bad just to get into Canada. She has all these problems with going back to China but she'll be going back there as soon as she gets her citizenship...nice :rolleyes:

Oh brother... I didn't even think of that. Hilarious.

ShadowVlican

Nov 2nd, 2009, 11:08 PM

they don't come here to pay taxes ;)

afong56

Nov 2nd, 2009, 11:35 PM

Why is this not a political thread?

it really is

bring back the politics forum

Nikita

Nov 3rd, 2009, 12:23 AM

People aren't afraid or scared of more Chinese people coming over, I am Chinese myself and this is still concerning. We're letting all these people in the backdoor, and it is unfair for legitimate immigrants who are subject to huge lines.

I agree that each case is judged differently, but do you really not think there are people going to see this and will find their own way to take advantage?

Morally right, sure I would agree it is, but where do we draw the line? Canada can only do so much.

She didn't come in the backdoor, she used the proper channels, she came and claimed refugee status, that process took six years (iow she was one of those who you yourself say was subject to huge lines), during which time she became pregnant. Do you really find it unusual that a woman her age would have a second child w/i six years of being anywhere?

Of course people will take advantage, they already do, they always have, here and everywhere without this decision. This decision IMO will make no difference at all. Even if she did do this the wrong way (which again there's nothing to suggest she did, everyone is just assuming that), she's hardly the first and won't be the last to try to jump the queu for immigration. I just don't see this one decision as having all these horrible consequences everyone is ranting about. Nor have I seen one post that even tries to justify that rant based on any facts or even any common sense. All I see are bald statements that this will cause doom and gloom to our country, but not one single post explains any reasoning for those statements.

We draw the line where the government and legislation says we draw the line. Obviously she didn't cross any lines and the law was on her side.

they don't come here to pay taxes ;)

And you know this how? Are you saying the come here intending to evade paying taxes? Do you have any basis for that belief? If so, I'm dying to hear it. Cuz as a bald statement it's nothing more than ignorant stereotyping AFAICS. But hey, feel free to prove me wrong. Explain why you believe that.

googoo

Nov 3rd, 2009, 06:33 PM

slowtyper

Nov 3rd, 2009, 06:35 PM

Do you really find it unusual that a woman her age would have a second child w/i six years of being anywhere?

its her first child only. Contrary to what the Toronto Sun and OP say, this case has nothing to do with China's one child policy (which only applies to about 1/3 of china's population anyways).

jcon

Nov 3rd, 2009, 07:10 PM

its her first child only. Contrary to what the Toronto Sun and OP say, this case has nothing to do with China's one child policy (which only applies to about 1/3 of china's population anyways).

Correct, it is illegal in China to be a single mother. I didn't read the Toronto Star article but the one I did read clearly explained that.

Nikita

Nov 3rd, 2009, 07:25 PM

If I remember the case, her claim was rejected multiple time, and was going through a last ditch attempt. It was a very convenient coincidence that she became preggies after she was told to scoot!

Brent

She was here in 1997, trying to claim, it was in MAr/April 06 that she got preggies, what do you want to bet somebody just happened to mention "hey, I've got a way for you to stay .... nudge nudge wink wink!

All this does is open the door for people that are completely inadmissible to bypass the system .... not cool!

Immigration needs to be tightened up IMO!

If one has nothing new to add to a post, why post at all. This same thing has been said at least a dozen times or more :rolleyes:

What is so 'coincidental' about getting pregnant at her age sometime w/i six years, no matter where she happens to be? Again, another post trashing women with no reason given for even thinking so...you sound like a parrot! The bottom line is she did nothing illegal, she went through all the proper channels and it's surely not her fault that those channels take 6 years to get through. Should she have waited until the government gave her the green light to get pregnant? Seriously, you have no basis whatsoever for these views....none except it's fun and easy to trash women.

And where do you get that she was 'trying to claim she got pregnant in Mar/Apr 2006 as though she just of course MUST be lying about that? Again, no reasons given for your opinion, you ridiculous opinion, no basis in fact, just a sexist view that serves your purpose. I've been waiting for what, 2 days now, for someone posting the same opinion to at least give a reason why they hold that opinion. Apparently none of you can, likely cuz there is no rational reason.

its her first child only. Contrary to what the Toronto Sun and OP say, this case has nothing to do with China's one child policy (which only applies to about 1/3 of china's population anyways).

Oh well, exuse me, one child not two...gee that makes all the difference and changes my mind completely...not...:rolleyes:

hugh_da_man

Nov 3rd, 2009, 08:31 PM

If one has nothing new to add to a post, why post at all. This same thing has been said at least a dozen times or more :rolleyes:

What is so 'coincidental' about getting pregnant at her age sometime w/i six years, no matter where she happens to be? Again, another post trashing women with no reason given for even thinking so...you sound like a parrot! The bottom line is she did nothing illegal, she went through all the proper channels and it's surely not her fault that those channels take 6 years to get through. Should she have waited until the government gave her the green light to get pregnant? Seriously, you have no basis whatsoever for these views....none except it's fun and easy to trash women.

And where do you get that she was 'trying to claim she got pregnant in Mar/Apr 2006 as though she just of course MUST be lying about that? Again, no reasons given for your opinion, you ridiculous opinion, no basis in fact, just a sexist view that serves your purpose. I've been waiting for what, 2 days now, for someone posting the same opinion to at least give a reason why they hold that opinion. Apparently none of you can, likely cuz there is no rational reason.

Zhang unsuccessfully tried to leave Sherry with Peel Children's Aid Society in April 2007 so the child could one day sponsor her back to Canada.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/canada/2009/11/03/11613306-sun.html

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/04/14/4013936-sun.html

It's a little shady that she tried to leave the child so that the child could sponsor her return. It's a strange case and it's very coincidental that she got pregnant sometime during her failed deportation appeal. No hate on women as the father is just as at fault but he's also disappeared. If he's Canadian he should be stepping up and taking the kid so she can go back to China and apply through the same channels as everyone else.

I'm not trying to trash on women but her refugee claim was obviously complete bull if she's going back to visit the second she gets her citizenship.

googoo

Nov 3rd, 2009, 09:57 PM

Seriously, you have no basis whatsoever for these views....none except it's fun and easy to trash women.

That proves just one thing, and an opinion means nothing to me. I spent a huge % of my childhood, by choice, with my Sister going to her sporting events and hanging around with her friends, I was there cheering all along when they won the Provincial Baseball championship, the provincial Hockey championship, I went with them to the tournaments as far away as Ottawa, and to the United States to watch my Sister play(and win sometimes) in big tournaments. I also helped coach(as much as a 13-17 year old boy can do) a bunch 13 to 17 year old girls, high fiving them when they scored and be incredibly pissed off(with them) when they lost. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME! So don't you dare call me Sexist, misogynistic or whatever term you come up with!!!!

As for Hong Zhang, I've been following this story since it was first posted, and I posted some info on my blog 2 1/2 years ago. I DIDN't just read this today. SHE FOUND A WAY TO BYPASS THE SYSTEM, it's that simple. She was here and failed at multiple attempts to get in through a refugee claim. How long should it take her to figure out "hey, looks like I'm getting sent back to China, would it make a lot of sense to have a child?, I know about the problems We'd face!!"

Remember it was more than 7 years and multiple attempts (and she lost every one) BEFORE she got pregnant!

PLease Nikita spout off some more about my sexist ways, I certainly won't be here listening.

Brent
The Sexist pig .... oink!

ShadowVlican

Nov 3rd, 2009, 10:30 PM

And you know this how? Are you saying the come here intending to evade paying taxes? Do you have any basis for that belief? If so, I'm dying to hear it. Cuz as a bald statement it's nothing more than ignorant stereotyping AFAICS. But hey, feel free to prove me wrong. Explain why you believe that.
it's ok, i prefer to keep it within the community.

sxz

Nov 3rd, 2009, 11:39 PM

Remember it was more than 7 years and multiple attempts (and she lost every one) BEFORE she got pregnant!

This is a good point. She came to Canada in 1997, after failing to file for refugee status (how did she enter the country in the first place?), she had a child in 2004, and used the child as a defense to claim she would be persecuted if she went back to China. With the father gone and no other family in Canada, she probably thought she had a strong chance to remain in Canada. She is a labourer here, meaning she probably makes little more than minimum wage and now has to raise a child by herself. Subsequently, this will put further strain on the social support systems if she chooses to take advantage of them.

The real question is whether or not she had the child for the sole purpose of remaining in Canada? This should be applied to any future cases to prevent further abuse of this loophole.

On the one hand, she is probably trying to give the best opportunity to her daughter (or herself) but, on the other, she did so through illegitimate means. Being sexist is one thing but to see this case for what it really is is another.

akito925

Nov 3rd, 2009, 11:47 PM

ya BUT
waning to all guys in Canada, becareful or you may be like this guy
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1649407

I have also hear many girls runing off after they get their Canadian ID

inject her with enough Demoral to make her take a long nap and then put her in a crate marked "live alligator" (so no one will mess with it)...and ship it to the moscow zoo.

I'm laughing my ass off here haha

but yeah I know alot of people who got tricked like this

akito925

Nov 3rd, 2009, 11:51 PM

akito925

Nov 3rd, 2009, 11:52 PM

This is a good point. She came to Canada in 1997, after failing to file for refugee status (how did she enter the country in the first place?), she had a child in 2004, and used the child as a defense to claim she would be persecuted if she went back to China. With the father gone and no other family in Canada, she probably thought she had a strong chance to remain in Canada. She is a labourer here, meaning she probably makes little more than minimum wage and now has to raise a child by herself. Subsequently, this will put further strain on the social support systems if she chooses to take advantage of them.

The real question is whether or not she had the child for the sole purpose of remaining in Canada? This should be applied to any future cases to prevent further abuse of this loophole.

On the one hand, she is probably trying to give the best opportunity to her daughter (or herself) but, on the other, she did so through illegitimate means. Being sexist is one thing but to see this case for what it really is is another.

There are places called Sperm Banks.