5.1 home theatre setup advice

[Phoenix3434]

Hi guys..

I need some advice for a 5.1 home theatre system. Recently, I bought the Sony's BDVE500W system from FS, and it is pretty bad considering how much I paid for it in terms of sound quality - so I am going to return it.

While I don't know much about audio systems, I do have a very good ear. :) I am starting to read up on the literature and am starting to become somewhat familiar with the different components, but am unsure about what to buy.

That being said, could you guys please give me a couple of suggestions for setups in the $800 - $1500 range? (receiver + speakers - 5.1 setup).

Obviously, the best bang for the buck. I am willing to wait till boxing week if I have to. I am pairing this with a Panasonic 50" G15 plasma TV + a blu-ray player I am yet to buy.

Also, I live in the GTA.

Thanks you!

[audit13]

My advice would be to get a decent Yamaha/Denon/Pioneer/Onkyo receiver and a set of Energy 5.1 speakers. These items regularly go on sale at FS and other retailers for a decent price.

[Nyte]

My advice would be to get a decent Yamaha/Denon/Pioneer/Onkyo receiver and a set of Energy 5.1 speakers. These items regularly go on sale at FS and other retailers for a decent price.

I prefer the Onkyo receivers, they tend to be much better value than the other brands on there. But I've been told they're really hard to find or are overpriced in Canada; I got mine in the US.

Also, if you don't mind spending more money over time to build up your system, I'd pass on the 5.1.

[Phoenix3434]

Hey guys. So, what are some good stores to check out receivers at? I only know of 2001 Audio Video. Seems expensive though. Sadly, going to the US is not an option for me.

Nyte, are you saying that I should go with a 7.1 setup instead? Are they "significantly" better than 5.1 setups - assuming same receiver + level of speakers.

My room is about 12 feet x 24 feet where the "entertainment center" is in a 12x12 block (half the room). What kind of speaker sensitivity and receiver power should I go for?

Thanks!

[audit13]

I prefer the Onkyo receivers, they tend to be much better value than the other brands on there. But I've been told they're really hard to find or are overpriced in Canada; I got mine in the US.

Also, if you don't mind spending more money over time to build up your system, I'd pass on the 5.1.

I currently have an Onkyo receiver but I preferred the sound of the Yamaha receiver I compared it to. I got the Onkyo for the TrueHD and DTS-HD decoding. My next receiver will be a Yamaha rx1900 that I hope to purchase around Christmas

Why pass on the 5.1? I find that good sound makes the movie much more enjoyable.

[vasanth1981]

start off with an above average receiver[something with TrueHD and DTS-HD], stick with Yamaha/Denon/Pioneer/Onkyo brands....5.1 is good....7.1 or 7.2 is future proofing. Speakers get front and center channels first and get the others later on or you could get really cheap ones for now and upgrade later. A really good sound sys would cost you abt $3500-$5000[Receiver $800-$1500 and Speakers $1500 - $3500]. Go for really good speakers, they would last a long-time, good brands available in Canada are Klipsch and KEF. Remember....Sound is all abt moving AIR.....:twisted:

[Nyte]

Nyte, are you saying that I should go with a 7.1 setup instead? Are they "significantly" better than 5.1 setups - assuming same receiver + level of speakers.

No, I was implying to start with a 2.0.



My room is about 12 feet x 24 feet where the "entertainment center" is in a 12x12 block (half the room). What kind of speaker sensitivity and receiver power should I go for?

Thanks!

Depends a lot on how loud you like to play stuff.



Why pass on the 5.1? I find that good sound makes the movie much more enjoyable.
I said if he was willing to build up (so he will eventually have 5.1 or 7.1). As for why, this is just my opinion, but I find the sound quality to be lacking given the speakers you could get within his posted budget - he'll need to split the amount over 6 speakers AND a receiver.

It's the approach I'm going with right now. I started at 2.0 and eventually added some surrounds, but I found that while they were nice to have, they didn't add all that much given most of the Blurays I've watched. To sum it up, if I was building a new system with a limited budget, I'd much rather have two good front speakers than 6 lesser ones.

[SivaNevets]

i got mine for slightly more than 1k. sound much much better than onkyo 9100.
heres wut i got (everything on sale, got everything together in a month)
Front: Polk RTI6 (equivalent RTI A3) $169
Centre: Polk CSI A4 $165
rear: Polk M10 $89 (could be cheaper)
Subwoofer: Polk PSW10 $150
($573 before tax)

receiver: Denon AVR 789 $499

upgrade options:
u can upgrade centre to CSIA6, and match the rear with RTIA1
or a better sub

[audit13]

...I said if he was willing to build up (so he will eventually have 5.1 or 7.1). As for why, this is just my opinion, but I find the sound quality to be lacking given the speakers you could get within his posted budget - he'll need to split the amount over 6 speakers AND a receiver.

It's the approach I'm going with right now. I started at 2.0 and eventually added some surrounds, but I found that while they were nice to have, they didn't add all that much given most of the Blurays I've watched. To sum it up, if I was building a new system with a limited budget, I'd much rather have two good front speakers than 6 lesser ones.

I see your logic. This is basically the approach I took with my setup. I now have a system I happy with except for the receiver and tv which I'll change at Christmas.

[Nyte]

I see your logic. This is basically the approach I took with my setup. I now have a system I happy with except for the receiver and tv which I'll change at Christmas.

I'm basically running a 4.0 right now. Next in line would be to add a center, but my biggest issue there has been placement. I'd need to find a new TV stand that can hold it as it won't fit on my current one; and furniture shopping is such a pain. I originally considered placing the TV on top of the center, but they updated the enclosures so they aren't perfectly flat anymore :mad:

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1473/12901053.jpg

[Phoenix3434]

Thank you all for the awesome tips. I like Nyte's idea of building it up slowly - I'll have to think about that. I might just go for 2 front + center speaker + subwoofer for now then and leave the surround/rear for later.

Can the front and rear/surround speakers be the "same" model of speaker? As in in a 5.1 setup, I can get 4 identical speakers for the 2 front and 2 surround? If not, what's the reason?

Nyte/Audit, both of you guys said you started off with smaller systems (e.g. 2.0) and built up - what did you guys go with to start off with? Nyte, you said you have a 4.0 setup (2 front/surround) - does that mean the center + woofer are the LEAST important in a setup? I thought the center was important for vocals and such.

As for the furniture issue, here's an idea:
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/range/10364/11794/
This is what I bought - still unassembled :). Mine has extra grooves for the boxes above the shelves as well. Totally modular system - as in you can build up and sideways as you please. They have other cool TV solutions at ikea as well - like one unit that has sliding doors over the TV. Very cheap compared to the other "big store" solutions. Can run the cables behind the backing as well.

[Nyte]

Can the front and rear/surround speakers be the "same" model of speaker? As in in a 5.1 setup, I can get 4 identical speakers for the 2 front and 2 surround? If not, what's the reason?

Yes they can be the same. The reason you might not want it to be the same is that historically, very little information is sent to the rear speakers; this is changing now that we have multichannel audio, but most of the focus will generally still be in the front.

To put it another way, if you got really nice front speakers, it would be overkill to use the same ones for the rears, but there is certainly no negative to doing so except to your wallet.



Nyte/Audit, both of you guys said you started off with smaller systems (e.g. 2.0) and built up - what did you guys go with to start off with? Nyte, you said you have a 4.0 setup (2 front/surround) - does that mean the center + woofer are the LEAST important in a setup? I thought the center was important for vocals and such.

I started with 2 front speakers; they are the most important ones and everything supports stereo output (ie. 2.0). The center is not important in this case the sound will be split across the two front speakers. It's a much bigger issue with the low-end HT in a box type deals that you originally tried as they have very small speakers that are very directional. Good fronts will have a wide enough sound stage that the entire front area will be covered.
As for the subwoofer, it depends on whether what you have gives you enough bass. In my case, the fronts (details here (http://www.paradigm.com/en/reference/fronts-studio-studio100-model-2-13-1-29.paradigm)) have 6x 7" woofers to cover the bass; they claim it will go down to 25hz, I've never tested.



As for the furniture issue, here's an idea:
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/range/10364/11794/
This is what I bought - still unassembled :). Mine has extra grooves for the boxes above the shelves as well. Totally modular system - as in you can build up and sideways as you please. They have other cool TV solutions at ikea as well - like one unit that has sliding doors over the TV. Very cheap compared to the other "big store" solutions. Can run the cables behind the backing as well.

I've looked at that (and the other ones they sell), they won't meet my needs. The problem with most of those is that they don't hold up the weight I need and/or they're too small. It's something you should keep in mind as well when you're shopping. I need it to be able to hold up the center speaker (70lbs), TV (80lbs), receiver (50lbs), and the misc other stuff that don't weigh nearly as much, but add up.

[audit13]

Thank you all for the awesome tips. I like Nyte's idea of building it up slowly - I'll have to think about that. I might just go for 2 front + center speaker + subwoofer for now then and leave the surround/rear for later.

Can the front and rear/surround speakers be the "same" model of speaker? As in in a 5.1 setup, I can get 4 identical speakers for the 2 front and 2 surround? If not, what's the reason?

Nyte/Audit, both of you guys said you started off with smaller systems (e.g. 2.0) and built up - what did you guys go with to start off with? Nyte, you said you have a 4.0 setup (2 front/surround) - does that mean the center + woofer are the LEAST important in a setup? I thought the center was important for vocals and such.

As for the furniture issue, here's an idea:
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/range/10364/11794/
This is what I bought - still unassembled :). Mine has extra grooves for the boxes above the shelves as well. Totally modular system - as in you can build up and sideways as you please. They have other cool TV solutions at ikea as well - like one unit that has sliding doors over the TV. Very cheap compared to the other "big store" solutions. Can run the cables behind the backing as well.

For my system, I started out with an Onkyo 705 receiver, older Mirage stereo speakers, and a 12" Velodyne sub. I replaced eventually replaced the Mirage speakers with 4 Energy RC-30s. For the centre, I went with the Energy RC-mini. When the RC-CLR went on sale, I bought the LCR to see if it would be a better match with my system. Within 15 minutes of listening to the LCR, I decided to sell off the RC-mini and keep the LCR. Going with the larger centre channel made the voices sound more natural and its timbre more closely matched my fronts and rears. The mini was good but the voices sometimes sounded kind of thin.

I'll replace my Velodyne with an SVS pb10-nsd sub in the near future.

For furniture, I went with this stand: http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&dm=DEBUG&sku_id=0770HDS0010084420&catid=#

It has a lot of space to keep my Onkyo cool. I also have my centre channel speaker, an htpc, cd player, and a BD player on the stand. I intentionally went with this stand because this stand allowed me to place the centre speaker directly below my tv.

[liquidimpulse]

i'm on the same boat as you, except I'm looking at spending under $1000 on all speakers (maybe except the surrounds if its necessary) and another $500 on the receiver.

Right now I'm looking at a lot in the used marketplace through kijiji and canuckaudiomart.

i see a person advertising a mission m34i 5.1 bundle for $999 and it sounds pretty hot, although im not too sure! Just wondering what everyone's take on it? or is it too good to be true?and what are your opinions on the system?

another thing I'm looking at into are the paradigm monitor 7 v.2's. A pair went for $300+shipping a while ago from a seller and I'm hoping I can snatch a pair soon as well, however will it be hard pairing it with a suitable center for under $200?(new/used)

anyways sorry for hijacking the thread but you should check out the used marketplace as there is ton of value to be sought.

[audit13]

...another thing I'm looking at into are the paradigm monitor 7 v.2's. A pair went for $300+shipping a while ago from a seller and I'm hoping I can snatch a pair soon as well, however will it be hard pairing it with a suitable center for under $200?(new/used)....

Others may disagree but I'm a believer in timbre matching all of the front speakers. Since my front speakers' drivers were farther from the floor than the centre speaker's drivers, everything sounded better when I matched my front speakers to my centre speaker.

[Phoenix3434]

Hey guys. Based on what I've heard so far, this is what I am thinking:

Receiver
Pioneer VSX-919H-K - $469.99
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10123901&catid=20313

Center
Energy Reference Connoisseur 3-Way (RC-LCR) - $549.99
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10087327&catid=

Front
Energy Reference Connoisseur 3-way Tower (RC-30) - $329.97 x 2
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10087358&catid=

Surround
Energy Reference Connoisseur Surround Speaker (RC-R) - $399 x 2 (current sale price $299x2 ends Nov 5)
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10087365&catid=

Woofer
Energy 10" Subwoofer (ESW-C10) - $399
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10111885&catid=

Total = 2876.92 (SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the amount I wanted to spend)

First of all, is this setup good? Do the separate components compliment each other well?

Second of all, there is no way I want to (or can) spend this much money on this set. Could you guys please tell me how much they are "really" worth so that I can negotiate? If I am not happy with the final price, I will go with a cheaper set.

Thanks! :D

[SivaNevets]

Hey guys. Based on what I've heard so far, this is what I am thinking:

Receiver
Pioneer VSX-919H-K - $469.99
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10123901&catid=20313

Center
Energy Reference Connoisseur 3-Way (RC-LCR) - $549.99
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10087327&catid=

Front
Energy Reference Connoisseur 3-way Tower (RC-30) - $329.97 x 2
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10087358&catid=

Surround
Energy Reference Connoisseur Surround Speaker (RC-R) - $399 x 2 (current sale price $299x2 ends Nov 5)
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10087365&catid=

Woofer
Energy 10" Subwoofer (ESW-C10) - $399
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10111885&catid=

Total = 2876.92 (SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the amount I wanted to spend)

First of all, is this setup good? Do the separate components compliment each other well?

Second of all, there is no way I want to (or can) spend this much money on this set. Could you guys please tell me how much they are "really" worth so that I can negotiate? If I am not happy with the final price, I will go with a cheaper set.

Thanks! :D

those are nice setup except sub and AVR , several things u may want to keep in mind.
-AVR u may want to check out Denon 790 or 590, it has better amp session and Audyssey (<-do some research).

-Rears doesnt have to match (its good too match but the difference is small, rears only carries 10%~15% sound track in movie and its very different soundtrack from dialogue and action) imo u can go something cheap, I use Polk M10 (they went on sale $69) because I didnt have the money to match the RTI series, I had them for several month and I dont play to upgrade them anymore because they sound good. There will be a difference if u listen to 5 channel music a lot, timbre match here is important.

-postion for rears are extremely important, if u want to buy dipole-bipole rears, make sure ONLY if ur room is appropriate (etc, symmetrical, has back walls, and side walls not too far from you, do some research on speaker position). if not, dont buy di-bipole rears, a regular bookshelf will sound better. dipole works better when sound reflect properly.

-Subs DEFINETLY dont have to match. the sub u choose imo is apoor one. and imo the only best sub u can get below $400 in Canada is POLK DSW PRO 500 from www.visions.ca when they on sale (they went on sale several times). they are much higher end than all subs from futureshop. the best sub from futureshop is probably velodyne 12'. but not nearly as nice as DSW Pro 500 (different class).

-its generally good to stick with futureshop for this money cause they most likely the only store has good price and good product when things on sale. stick with Polk RTI, Energy RC, Klipsch RF. if you shop around, Paradigm is also an amazing brand, their monitor series for the price is hard to beat.

-towers not always necessarily better than large bookshelf. especially when u cross them at 80hz.

polk RTIa series are beautiful and very nice HT speakers, i highly recommend. get some RTIa3/RTIa5s u will surprise. Energy is a bit more refined less forward for music come pare to RTIA, but not nearly as nice when it comes to HT, but sitll very nice.

good luck with ur journey. im sure it will be fun

[Phoenix3434]

Thanks Siva for the excellent feedback.



imo u can go something cheap, I use Polk M10 (they went on sale $69)


Where did you get them for $69?



-postion for rears are extremely important, if u want to buy dipole-bipole rears, make sure ONLY if ur room is appropriate (etc, symmetrical, has back walls, and side walls not too far from you, do some research on speaker position). if not, dont buy di-bipole rears, a regular bookshelf will sound better. dipole works better when sound reflect properly.


I will do some research about that. FYI, my room is approx 12 feet x 24 feet where the home theater area is a 12x12 area (half the room).

Now, I have one more important question to you guys. I was looking at "packaged 5.1 speaker sets" like the one below as well: (Polk Audio RM20-5)
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10124058&catid=

When I googled this system, I honestly did not see any bad reviews and everyone was raving about its quality. I mean, I do understand that every review takes the price of the system into account and I am sure this is a great unit for the price. "BUT", what am I missing with this system when compared to a more expensive (e.g. $2500) system? What kind of deficiencies can I expect?

While my knowledge of audio systems is (still) poor, I do have a very good ear. So, if there is a deficiency is the sound, I know I will hear it - sadly... :(

Thanks!

[SivaNevets]

Where did you get them for $69?

just be patient. check futureshop everyfriday. they went 69$ 2 times few months ago.

make things short, dont (generally) buy mid-woofer drivers smaller than 5 1/2 inch (usually 6 1/2). satelite speakers are not physically capable to produce the fuller range and dynamics larger woofers can.
the things u missing would be: wide soundstage, richness in mids, airy feeling in highs, extensions, lower end (u have to cross satelite at 160hz but only frequency below 80hz are non directional - so no good). almost everything.

rm-20: those are excellent packages. but not nearly as nice as 'real' speakers.
their advantages usually are not taking so much space and easy to hook up.
in terms on sound quality, satelites usually cannot compare to bookshelf/towers in similar price range (i also own some nice satelites, good when compare to bose. cannot compare to even polk M10 the cheapest decent regular bookshelf ive seen)

and 5.1 satelite packages are usually not really cheap if u can pick every seperate real speaker components on sale. as i said my whole system cost 1.2k after tax, no satelite packages or HITB can get close.

here some basic education
http://www.polkaudio.com/downloads/hthandbook.pdf

[game_fanatic]

Where did you get them for $69?

just be patient. check futureshop everyfriday. they went 69$ 2 times few months ago.

make things short, dont (generally) buy mid-woofer drivers smaller than 5 1/2 inch (usually 6 1/2). satelite speakers are not physically capable to produce the fuller range and dynamics larger woofers can.
the things u missing would be: wide soundstage, richness in mids, airy feeling in highs, extensions, lower end (u have to cross satelite at 160hz but only frequency below 80hz are non directional - so no good). almost everything.

rm-20: those are excellent packages. but not nearly as nice as 'real' speakers.
their advantages usually are not taking so much space and easy to hook up.
in terms on sound quality, satelites usually cannot compare to bookshelf/towers in similar price range (i also own some nice satelites, good when compare to bose. cannot compare to even polk M10 the cheapest decent regular bookshelf ive seen)

and 5.1 satelite packages are usually not really cheap if u can pick every seperate real speaker components on sale. as i said my whole system cost 1.2k after tax, no satelite packages or HITB can get close.

I'd wager the speakers in question were bought at Visions.

[audit13]

Hey guys. Based on what I've heard so far, this is what I am thinking:

Receiver
Pioneer VSX-919H-K - $469.99
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10123901&catid=20313.....

Front
Energy Reference Connoisseur 3-way Tower (RC-30) - $329.97 x 2
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10087358&catid=

Woofer
Energy 10" Subwoofer (ESW-C10) - $399
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10111885&catid=

For a receiver, you might want to consider the Onkyo 507 as well since it can also decode TrueHD and DTS-HD from BB: http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10131077&catid=20313

The front speakers have been discontinued, hence the .97 price; however, if you want them, you should get them soon.

For the sub, I would recommend an SVS. It's $180 more but an awesome sub.

[Phoenix3434]

satelite speakers are not physically capable to produce the fuller range and dynamics larger woofers can.
the things u missing would be: wide soundstage, richness in mids, airy feeling in highs, extensions, lower end (u have to cross satelite at 160hz but only frequency below 80hz are non directional - so no good). almost everything.


Understood. :) Thanks for the explanation!


The front speakers have been discontinued, hence the .97 price; however, if you want them, you should get them soon.


Do you think it's worth the current price tag of $329??.. How much should I try to bargain it for before passing it up?

Thanks guys.

[Nyte]

For a receiver, you might want to consider the Onkyo 507 as well since it can also decode TrueHD and DTS-HD from BB: http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10131077&catid=20313


Wow, the same thing is $299 from Newegg. With the price difference, it would still be cheaper to order to a US address and pay shipping + customs to get it over.

[jbnc_]

Another tip of advice, when looking at speaker frequency response, look for the spec that lists frequency response at +/- 3db. Technically any speaker can play any frequency. Whether its audible at that frequency is another story.

[Citizen Bmac]

Receivers can often be had for MUCH less if you buy from the states. Check Google Product to see what things are going for. I bought my receiver from the states and after shipping, duties and tax I saved $500 + tax compared to the best price I could find in Canada.

[jbnc_]

ooh just thought of another thing. I've found that like 95% who invest hundreds of dollars in a decent sounding home theatre spend $0 on room treatment and at least half of them spend no time with proper placement. A great sounding speaker can sound horrible (with uneven bass peaks and general muddy sound) if the room is not designed right.

I'd say if u want to get that extra oomph out of whatever system you decide, do a little research on acoustic treatment and equalization and you'd be amazed at the difference it makes. :D

[JLee]

I've heard good things about this subwoofer (SVS PB10-NSD)

http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/pb10nsd-powered-box-subwoofer-10-nsd-series-woofer-black-p-5.html

[Citizen Bmac]

That SVS is as good of a sub as you will find in Canada for the money.

To the OP, AV123 is having a sale right now on their ELT525 home theatre system. Here is the link:

http://www.av123.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=294&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37&vmcchk=1&Itemid=37

$699 US delivered in the US, so add a little extra for delivery. AV123 make really good products for the money. They're finished in real wood veneer, which looks much nicer than the vinyl wrapped speakers at FS. Their subs, at $600 US are the best value for a new sub anywhere IMO. There are only a handful of subs that will outperform the MFW-15, and none at that price. If I hadn't found good deals on my HSU subs I would get an MFW-15 in a minute.

[SivaNevets]

ooh just thought of another thing. I've found that like 95% who invest hundreds of dollars in a decent sounding home theatre spend $0 on room treatment and at least half of them spend no time with proper placement. A great sounding speaker can sound horrible (with uneven bass peaks and general muddy sound) if the room is not designed right.

I'd say if u want to get that extra oomph out of whatever system you decide, do a little research on acoustic treatment and equalization and you'd be amazed at the difference it makes. :D

+1 on this
thats why audyssey is a gem feature to have for beginers. pros say 20% is the equipment, 40% for setup and 40% fo room.

sub placement is crucial but realtively easy to do.
the trick is to place the sub on ur listening area, walk around find the best sound spot for bass (use ur ears) and place the sub there. it really works. the atlernative is to have dual subs.

[Phoenix3434]

Thanks for the continued feedback guys :).

Based on what you guys have said, I changed my mind on the AVR. As Siva suggested, I think I will go with the Denon 790. A little bit more expensive, but hopefully will be on sale soon.

As was suggested before by Nyte and Audit, I think I will also build up my system slowly. I'll probably get just the receiver and 2 front speakers (quality floor speakers) to begin with (2.0 setup). I will add the center + woofer + surroundx2 later.

[JLee]

That's what I'd have done too, Phoenix3434.

[GrahameS]

My advice would be to get a decent Yamaha/Denon/Pioneer/Onkyo receiver and a set of Energy 5.1 speakers. These items regularly go on sale at FS and other retailers for a decent price.

Is there any where to buy the Energy Classic speakers in Canada anymore?

[SomeGuyGG]

i'm on the same boat as you, except I'm looking at spending under $1000 on all speakers (maybe except the surrounds if its necessary) and another $500 on the receiver.

Right now I'm looking at a lot in the used marketplace through kijiji and canuckaudiomart.

i see a person advertising a mission m34i 5.1 bundle for $999 and it sounds pretty hot, although im not too sure! Just wondering what everyone's take on it? or is it too good to be true?and what are your opinions on the system?

another thing I'm looking at into are the paradigm monitor 7 v.2's. A pair went for $300+shipping a while ago from a seller and I'm hoping I can snatch a pair soon as well, however will it be hard pairing it with a suitable center for under $200?(new/used)

anyways sorry for hijacking the thread but you should check out the used marketplace as there is ton of value to be sought.

Buying used is the way to go. Kijiji and canuck audio mart can be goldmines.

I picked up some Paradigm Monitor 9's, monitor minis and a CC370 center for just under $400.
Finding a sub seems to be a lot harder though.
It is far better to get some decent quality hardware now than to upgrade again in a year or two. Quality speakers will last forever and keep sounding just as good.

Starting with fronts, then a sub, then a center and then rears is the most used route.

[liquidimpulse]

I'm drooling with envy...I REALLY want a set of paradigm monitor 7 or 9's. but haven't been able to get to them on time:mad:. I'd be quite happy with spending close to $300-400 alone if i could get a pair of monitor 7 or 9's and slowly work my way up with center and surrounds.


Buying used is the way to go. Kijiji and canuck audio mart can be goldmines.

I picked up some Paradigm Monitor 9's, monitor minis and a CC370 center for just under $400.
Finding a sub seems to be a lot harder though.
It is far better to get some decent quality hardware now than to upgrade again in a year or two. Quality speakers will last forever and keep sounding just as good.

Starting with fronts, then a sub, then a center and then rears is the most used route.

[Phoenix3434]

Hey guys. So, I finally got time to go speaker auditioning. Auditioned the Klipsch RF62, Polk RTI A5, and the Energy 50. Just the front and the center for now. All of them were ok. Nothing too spectacular. Then I made the "unfortunate" decision to audition the Martin Logan's (at Future Shop). AMAZING speakers. Just the 2 front speakers were simply brilliant. Can't get it out of my mind now. Only problem is, it's a little bit on the pricey side. :|.

Are there any "cheaper" alternatives to the Martin Logan's in Canada that are "just as good"?

Thanks!

[SomeGuyGG]

I'm drooling with envy...I REALLY want a set of paradigm monitor 7 or 9's. but haven't been able to get to them on time:mad:. I'd be quite happy with spending close to $300-400 alone if i could get a pair of monitor 7 or 9's and slowly work my way up with center and surrounds.


They are the older version 1's and it took about 5 months of browsing and almost buying other sets before finally getting that. But it was well worth it! I am loving it.

I know I saw a pawn store in Woodstock with 2 pair's of Monitor 9 V2's. They were asking for $400, which is a bit too much, but I'm sure its possible to negotiate the price a bit with them.

[SomeGuyGG]

Hey guys. So, I finally got time to go speaker auditioning. Auditioned the Klipsch RF62, Polk RTI A5, and the Energy 50. Just the front and the center for now. All of them were ok. Nothing too spectacular. Then I made the "unfortunate" decision to audition the Martin Logan's (at Future Shop). AMAZING speakers. Just the 2 front speakers were simply brilliant. Can't get it out of my mind now. Only problem is, it's a little bit on the pricey side. :|.

Are there any "cheaper" alternatives to the Martin Logan's in Canada that are "just as good"?

Thanks!

B&W, Paradigm, PSB and Axiom are all good. The last three are all made/developed in Canada. Check out an audio store, the entry level series of those company would probably be good enough for you!

Audio One in Concord seems to have B&W and Paradigm[http://www.audio-one.ca/ma8.asp]
Tabangi Electronics Ltd has PSB http://www.tabangielectronics.com/contact.html
Liptons http://www.liptons.ca/
You are lucky, lots of audio stores around Vaughn!

[hightech]

I am not a fan of the Pioneer receivers as they tend to run hot. I know CNET reviewed the latest model and gave it their editors choice award
http://reviews.cnet.com/best-av-receivers/

I been to a few stores that have the Pioneer VSX-1019AH-K on and it gets pretty hot just idling. My older Yamaha and my Harmon Kardon don't get anywhere near as warm and that is after a few hours of playback.

In terms of receivers, there are a number of frills that come on them, but the ones that I look for are:

- 5 way binding posts for ALL speakers (can't stand those push clips)
- Audyssey MultEQ built in (makes a nice difference on the sound quality)
- 100 watts per channel at 8 ohms MINIMUM
- Low distortion amps (0.07% THD or lower)

I've used Denon, Yamaha, Harmon Kardon, Rotel, JVC and the only one that was the best receiver was my old Rotel. All the other sound about the same with some extra features, etc.

For speakers, PSB, Mordaunt Short, Infinity and other brands are all decent. I have a set of Mordaunt Short floor standing speakers ($800) and a cheap pair of rear Infinity's ($300). The best thing is to find a price point that meets your needs. I tend to budget more on speakers because even the best amp won't do wonders on poor quality speakers.

[Phoenix3434]

Thanks SomeGuy. Will check em out. I suppose these "high-end" speakers are also good for Home-Theater sound (movies)? I did my auditioning with only music DVDs so far.

A friend of mine said he can get me a Velodyne Optimum for a cheaper price.
http://www.velodyne.com/products/product.aspx?ID=37&sid=216y728t

Will that be a good match for Paradigms, B&W, M. Logans?

Thanks!

[SomeGuyGG]

Thanks SomeGuy. Will check em out. I suppose these "high-end" speakers are also good for Home-Theater sound (movies)? I did my auditioning with only music DVDs so far.

A friend of mine said he can get me a Velodyne Optimum for a cheaper price.
http://www.velodyne.com/products/product.aspx?ID=37&sid=216y728t

Will that be a good match for Paradigms, B&W, M. Logans?

Thanks!

The great thing about subwoofers is that they extend lower than any of the other speakers. So it doesn't matter as much about matching a sub to the other speakers.

You want to match the other 5 speakers though, since they all try to reproduce the same sounds, if one sounds different than the others it may be noticeable.

When getting a subwoofer, just make sure that it meets the other speakers in general. Don't buy an 8" subwoofer if your towers all have 8" woofers too, it won't really add as much.

Those subs should work pretty good with any speaker set!

[audit13]

SVS subs are also highly-rated and well priced.

http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/

[Jon Lai]

The great thing about subwoofers is that they extend lower than any of the other speakers. So it doesn't matter as much about matching a sub to the other speakers.

You want to match the other 5 speakers though, since they all try to reproduce the same sounds, if one sounds different than the others it may be noticeable.

When getting a subwoofer, just make sure that it meets the other speakers in general. Don't buy an 8" subwoofer if your towers all have 8" woofers too, it won't really add as much.

Those subs should work pretty good with any speaker set!

Also make sure your subwoofer's frequency bridges the ones of your speakers. If you have fairly small fronts it's common that there's 10-20Hz that aren't covered by either speakers or subwoofer.

[tjayl]

I'm drooling with envy...I REALLY want a set of paradigm monitor 7 or 9's. but haven't been able to get to them on time:mad:. I'd be quite happy with spending close to $300-400 alone if i could get a pair of monitor 7 or 9's and slowly work my way up with center and surrounds.

Liquidimpulse, saw this today, and remembered someone on here was looking for Paradigms.

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/149957-older_paradigm_speakers_51_set_up_very_nice/

[Nyte]

Thanks SomeGuy. Will check em out. I suppose these "high-end" speakers are also good for Home-Theater sound (movies)? I did my auditioning with only music DVDs so far.

A friend of mine said he can get me a Velodyne Optimum for a cheaper price.
http://www.velodyne.com/products/product.aspx?ID=37&sid=216y728t

Will that be a good match for Paradigms, B&W, M. Logans?

Thanks!

You should audition the higher end speakers as well, even if you'd never plan to buy them. That way, you'll have something to compare to. This is more of an issue if you're already looking at higher end ones as there's diminishing returns, but if you can't tell the difference or its minimal between what you're looking at and something a level up, then there's probably no point in spending more money.

[Phoenix3434]

You should audition the higher end speakers as well, even if you'd never plan to buy them. That way, you'll have something to compare to. This is more of an issue if you're already looking at higher end ones as there's diminishing returns, but if you can't tell the difference or its minimal between what you're looking at and something a level up, then there's probably no point in spending more money.

Makes sense. As much as I would like the ML Vista speakers, 5000/pair is a little bit too much :|

Based on you guys' considerable auditioning experience, at what point do you usually start seeing diminishing returns wrt price vs performance?

I will hit some of the stores that was suggested earlier next weekend. Please give some suggestions of good "bang for the buck" speakers of Paradigm, B&W, PSB, etc. After listening to the MLs, I don't think I can go "too far" back in terms of quality :(. But, the $$ of the MLs were way expensive for me. As mentioned before, I will also be using the system for HT use a lot as well. Will start off with a 2.1 setup at first.

Also, what kind of receiver will I need to drive these? I had narrowed it down to Pioneer VSX 919 or Denon 790. But, that was before I listened to the MLs and was going to go with a Polk RTi A5/Energy 50 type setup. Will they still be enough for ~ $1200 - $2000 speakers?

Thanks!

[game_fanatic]

Hey Phoenix, I'd be wary about testing out speakers at Future Shop. Most of the time, the speakers are positioned quite poorly, and poor-sounding speakers in Future Shop may not translate to poor-sounding speakers in your own home theatre. I'd say wait for a great deal on a pair of fronts, buy them, take them home, and test them out. If they aren't up to your standards, then simply return them! That's the benefit with purchasing speakers at Future Shop or Best Buy.

[Nyte]

Based on you guys' considerable auditioning experience, at what point do you usually start seeing diminishing returns wrt price vs performance?

You can look at specs, but realistically, it's hard to pin down a point as it'll vary from person to person. For my g/f, its probably around a couple hundred dollars (for fronts). For me, it was over $2000 (Paradigm Studio 100; people tend to consider the Studio 60 as the best value in that line).


Hey Phoenix, I'd be wary about testing out speakers at Future Shop. Most of the time, the speakers are positioned quite poorly, and poor-sounding speakers in Future Shop may not translate to poor-sounding speakers in your own home theatre. I'd say wait for a great deal on a pair of fronts, buy them, take them home, and test them out. If they aren't up to your standards, then simply return them! That's the benefit with purchasing speakers at Future Shop or Best Buy.
I've never listened to anything at Future Shop, so I can't comment directly on whether they do this, but many of those stores will tweak the settings to make what they want to sell you appear to sound better (make it slightly louder, better source material or connections, etc). I know they do this with their displays.

[Citizen Bmac]

Thanks SomeGuy. Will check em out. I suppose these "high-end" speakers are also good for Home-Theater sound (movies)? I did my auditioning with only music DVDs so far.

A friend of mine said he can get me a Velodyne Optimum for a cheaper price.
http://www.velodyne.com/products/product.aspx?ID=37&sid=216y728t

Will that be a good match for Paradigms, B&W, M. Logans?

Thanks!
If you want an amazing sub at a very reasonable price, you might want to check this out:

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/150110-black_mfw15_15_subwoofer_w_2nd_generation_amp_125l bs_beast/

This is miles ahead of anything they sell at Future Shop. The Craigsub panel of reviewers rated the $5000 Velodyne DD18 almost as highly as this MFW-15. This is a link to their rankings, which is a pretty comprehensive list of the best subwoofers available anywhere at any price:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9164136#post9164136

[thegradas]

Hi guys..

I need some advice for a 5.1 home theatre system. Recently, I bought the Sony's BDVE500W system from FS, and it is pretty bad considering how much I paid for it in terms of sound quality - so I am going to return it.

While I don't know much about audio systems, I do have a very good ear. :) I am starting to read up on the literature and am starting to become somewhat familiar with the different components, but am unsure about what to buy.

That being said, could you guys please give me a couple of suggestions for setups in the $800 - $1500 range? (receiver + speakers - 5.1 setup).

Obviously, the best bang for the buck. I am willing to wait till boxing week if I have to. I am pairing this with a Panasonic 50" G15 plasma TV + a blu-ray player I am yet to buy.

Also, I live in the GTA.

Thanks you!


Try this:
AV receiver: Harman Kardon AVR-254 7.1 (latest firmware is a must)
5.1 speakers: Harman Kardon HKTS-18 (+ HTFS2 Floor Stands)

[novembersnews]

Just read this very interesting thread. I am looking at a Samsung 50in (PN50B650) plasma with Harman Kardon 5.1 Home Theatre Speaker System (HKTS15) and Harman Kardon 7.1 Channel HDMI Home Theatre Receiver (AVR 1600) for $2199 on sale at Future Shop. I've asked for opinions on this deal in another thread.

My question here though is, if I bought a cheaper tv (Samsung 50" 1080p 600Hz Plasma HDTV (PN50B540)) for $1199 including $100 online voucher, then I could spend about $800 for a receiver and a pair of fronts. Reading this thread I'm considering Pioneer 819 ($399 at Best Buy) and Polk Polk Audio Bookshelf Speaker (RTIA3) ($399 on sale at Gibby's). Any suggestions which way I should go? Cheaper tv and better speakers? Would this be the best way to spend my $800 audio budget if I went that way?

[novembersnews]

How about these speakers - klipsch bookshelves rb61.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10105953&catid=

[googoo]

(Paradigm Studio 100; people tend to consider the Studio 60 as the best value in that line).


Yep, because you can run the 60s with a receiver, and unless you have a BEAST of a receiver you aren't doing the 100s justice!

As for the Martin Logans, they sound good in store, effortless, but electrostatic speakers need a LOT of time (and room) to set up properly.

Brent

[Nyte]

Yep, because you can run the 60s with a receiver, and unless you have a BEAST of a receiver you aren't doing the 100s justice!


What do you consider a beast of a receiver? They really don't take much to drive unless you have a huge room or want to go deaf.

[googoo]

Denon 4308 at the low end, and that's if you must have a "receiver" a preamplifier with a nice dedicated amplifier is a lot more sensible, something like the 2200 mono bloc amplifier from Outlaw, or the 7900(300wpc).

I certainly wouldn't power those speakers with 125wpc from a Pioneer 1019.

Brent

[Nyte]

Denon 4308 at the low end, and that's if you must have a "receiver" a preamplifier with a nice dedicated amplifier is a lot more sensible, something like the 2200 mono bloc amplifier from Outlaw, or the 7900(300wpc).

I certainly wouldn't power those speakers with 125wpc from a Pioneer 1019.

Brent
As much as I'm a fan of discrete components, I don't agree with you on this. You don't 'need' a powerful dedicated amp to drive them unless you actually intend to use all that power. It's like how some people get all sorts of fancy cable, it doesn't hurt (except your pocket), but in most cases, it doesn't help either.

[kuznagi]

Am also working to build up my 5.1/7.1 system as well. One thing to note is, I have a $400 credit at Visions from a warrenty on a TV years ago so I can use that as well. I am thinking of two options:

1) I bought the Denon AVR-590 last week so I could:
-Use my old HTIB speakers, build up my set there (Could use the visions money to buy those)

2) The guy at visions was suggesting some Onkyo packages for 7.1/5.1 systems
HTS 5200/HTS 3200
http://www.visions.ca/catalogue/category/Details.aspx?categoryId=166&productId=4556

http://www.visions.ca/catalogue/category/Details.aspx?categoryId=166&productId=4480

Is the Denon one good enough to start building up a set, probably don't need extremly high end or top of the line as I had a HTIB for the last 5 years. And if I go the Onkyo route how does it compare to the Denon route. Are the receivers in the Onkyo models any good?

Thx

[bowmah]

Is the Denon one good enough to start building up a set, probably don't need extremly high end or top of the line as I had a HTIB for the last 5 years. And if I go the Onkyo route how does it compare to the Denon route. Are the receivers in the Onkyo models any good?

Thx

The Denon is a nice unit but the 590 does not decode HD sound (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master). If you plan to watch Blu-Ray movies, this is something to consider. Step up to the 790 and it will do this. Plus, the 790 has HDMI passthrough, if this is important to you. I am not sure the 590 has passthrough. Pass through is when you want to watch TV without needing to turn on the receiver and the TV speakers will have sound (pass through from the HDMI connection). This is of course, if you have a TV with HDMI inputs. Enjoy the hunt. That is half the fun!

[Tharyn]

The Denon is a nice unit but the 590 does not decode HD sound (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master). If you plan to watch Blu-Ray movies, this is something to consider. Step up to the 790 and it will do this. Plus, the 790 has HDMI passthrough, if this is important to you. I am not sure the 590 has passthrough. Pass through is when you want to watch TV without needing to turn on the receiver and the TV speakers will have sound (pass through from the HDMI connection). This is of course, if you have a TV with HDMI inputs. Enjoy the hunt. That is half the fun!

The 590 does decode Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master. Denon introduced HD audio decoding over HDMI in all of its 2010 models.

Check the specs: http://www.denon.ca/ProductDetails/3468.asp

Also a great intro resource to Denon's (with regards to model numbers, etc) check out this site: http://www.batpigworld.com

Specifically: http://www.batpigworld.com/models.html

Although I'm currently in the market for a 790, I'm waiting on some deals to show up before I jump on board.

[bowmah]

The 590 does decode Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master. Denon introduced HD audio decoding over HDMI in all of its 2010 models.

Check the specs: http://www.denon.ca/ProductDetails/3468.asp

Also a great intro resource to Denon's (with regards to model numbers, etc) check out this site: http://www.batpigworld.com

Specifically: http://www.batpigworld.com/models.html

Although I'm currently in the market for a 790, I'm waiting on some deals to show up before I jump on board.

Hey nice, the 2009 model did not decode HD Sound. Glad you cleared that up. Now having said that, the debate continues as to whether it's best to have a receiver that can decode HD or just have the Blu-Ray player decode it before sending it down as PCM.

Yes, the 790 is great. The recent FS deal plus a $10 coupon brought the 790 down to $466. Hope you can use this as a benchmark.

[mtl4]

Am also working to build up my 5.1/7.1 system as well. One thing to note is, I have a $400 credit at Visions from a warrenty on a TV years ago so I can use that as well. I am thinking of two options:

1) I bought the Denon AVR-590 last week so I could:
-Use my old HTIB speakers, build up my set there (Could use the visions money to buy those)

2) The guy at visions was suggesting some Onkyo packages for 7.1/5.1 systems
HTS 5200/HTS 3200
http://www.visions.ca/catalogue/category/Details.aspx?categoryId=166&productId=4556

http://www.visions.ca/catalogue/category/Details.aspx?categoryId=166&productId=4480

Is the Denon one good enough to start building up a set, probably don't need extremly high end or top of the line as I had a HTIB for the last 5 years. And if I go the Onkyo route how does it compare to the Denon route. Are the receivers in the Onkyo models any good?

Thx

That Denon receiver is more than a good start for a good 5.1 surround sound setup and don't let the guy at visions steer you astray. You are almost always better off buying separates than to go with a HTIB setup like was suggested. Not that they won't sound ok, but side-by-side you'd easily be able to pick out which was the HTIB setup. Now that you have a decent receiver the next step is to get a good set of satellites and a subwoofer. Something like the Polk RM705 or Harman Kardon HKTS-15 set will sound amazing with your receiver.

[Jon Lai]

Just read this very interesting thread. I am looking at a Samsung 50in (PN50B650) plasma with Harman Kardon 5.1 Home Theatre Speaker System (HKTS15) and Harman Kardon 7.1 Channel HDMI Home Theatre Receiver (AVR 1600) for $2199 on sale at Future Shop. I've asked for opinions on this deal in another thread.

My question here though is, if I bought a cheaper tv (Samsung 50" 1080p 600Hz Plasma HDTV (PN50B540)) for $1199 including $100 online voucher, then I could spend about $800 for a receiver and a pair of fronts. Reading this thread I'm considering Pioneer 819 ($399 at Best Buy) and Polk Polk Audio Bookshelf Speaker (RTIA3) ($399 on sale at Gibby's). Any suggestions which way I should go? Cheaper tv and better speakers? Would this be the best way to spend my $800 audio budget if I went that way?

To be honest, at $800 budget there's not much you can play with. I suggest $350 for receiver and $450 for everything else, but even then that's cutting it short. At these price levels you're going to get around the same AQ amongst all the brands (that actually offer something in that price range).

[BenK22]

Just read this very interesting thread. I am looking at a Samsung 50in (PN50B650) plasma with Harman Kardon 5.1 Home Theatre Speaker System (HKTS15) and Harman Kardon 7.1 Channel HDMI Home Theatre Receiver (AVR 1600) for $2199 on sale at Future Shop. I've asked for opinions on this deal in another thread.

My question here though is, if I bought a cheaper tv (Samsung 50" 1080p 600Hz Plasma HDTV (PN50B540)) for $1199 including $100 online voucher, then I could spend about $800 for a receiver and a pair of fronts. Reading this thread I'm considering Pioneer 819 ($399 at Best Buy) and Polk Polk Audio Bookshelf Speaker (RTIA3) ($399 on sale at Gibby's). Any suggestions which way I should go? Cheaper tv and better speakers? Would this be the best way to spend my $800 audio budget if I went that way?

Go on CanuckAudioMart and get a nice pair of fronts for ~$400, skip the big box stores.

[s2k6]

i don't know much when it come to speakers, heres what i got so far:

Denon 3310ci
Energy 10" Subwoofer (ESW V10)
A pair of Polk Audio Floor Standing Speakers (RTIA5)
and a Polk Audio CSIA4 for the centre

i think may as well get some rears. Any recommendations?

Is this a good setup?

i am thinking energy c300 for rears ?:confused:

[novembersnews]

How about these polks, bookshelf speakers make great rears.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10034465&logon=&langid=EN

[coolspot]

That Denon receiver is more than a good start for a good 5.1 surround sound setup and don't let the guy at visions steer you astray.

I personally would not buy another Denon again... the setup menus and remote are horrible. A comparable Pioneer would be a better choice ;)