GMAC End of Lease - Negotiating Deals on new vehicle

[seankiely]

Please move if not correct forum.

I am 12 months away from the end of my GM lease, this is my 2nd lease with them and my wife also leases with them. I understand GM no longer leases and that's fine.

What I am wondering - does anyone have tips/contacts etc on how to not get crucified on lease return?

I am going to be about 20-30K over my lease KM allowed, I also could be talked into a new GM vehicle on a purchase at anytime. What I am hoping is tips from people who have successfully had GM waive the KM rate or take the vehicle back sooner then the lease end date.

Long story short - the van is not something I want to keep -the value is not there. I plan on using my "GM loyalty" to negotiate this deal - but I have been told by 2 seperate sales people that GM doesn't do this - which I call BS, and is why I am here.

If all else fails, I will ride out the lease (not desired) and take my lumps on the KM's but GM will never see me darken their door again.

Anyone have some advice? emails or phone contacts? I know most companies have loyalty programs and GM must see the value of repeat customers - especially ones with multi vehicle needs.

thanks very much
Sean

[aggronieszka]

When I had my lease, I went in early to try to get something bigger. They will definitely finish your lease early, but you WILL be paying for ending early and for extra km's. They just roll that into your finance price.

I will never deal with GMAC again. What a bunch of scammers.

[Hugh Jass]

If all else fails, I will ride out the lease (not desired) and take my lumps on the KM's but GM will never see me darken their door again.



Not to become all moralistic on you but you entered into an agreement with GM to lease their car and return it with a certain amount of clicks on it. Anything over that amount decreses the cars resale value, so they have to make that up by charging you for the extra kms you put on it.

Now you're more or less saying f*** them if they dont waive that charge?

If you really want to f*** them, you can get it clocked back ;)

[seankiely]

When I had my lease, I went in early to try to get something bigger. They will definitely finish your lease early, but you WILL be paying for ending early and for extra km's. They just roll that into your finance price.

I will never deal with GMAC again. What a bunch of scammers.

This is what local is telling me, and I dont beleive it for a sec. I am not going to roll anything into anything else - lol, what I left out is that the van is a Saturn and also had some warranty issues which isnt bad - but they closed all the dealers around me and the only one left is 45 minutes each way from my home....so I am not over thrilled to go back to GM amnd it certainly will not be a Saturn.

We are out of the minivan stage and will now be upgrading - we are looking at the Acadia so its a huge $$ upgrade and in my thoughts worth it for GM to work with me - if not, my wife likes the Honda Pilot to...

Please keep em coming guys/gals - experiences/phone numbers/contacts lol - it can help us all.

Sean

[seankiely]

Not to become all moralistic on you but you entered into an agreement with GM to lease their car and return it with a certain amount of clicks on it. Anything over that amount decreses the cars resale value, so they have to make that up by charging you for the extra kms you put on it.

Now you're more or less saying f*** them if they dont waive that charge?

If you really want to f*** them, you can get it clocked back ;)

Well roll back is illegal, but the other part about waiving charges - I hear ya, but its not different then Rogers loyalty/ Bell etc...no one gets nothing for free, not even a car company. They want me again which in all odds means again for my wife who has 20 months - they help me out here, if they dont I start over.

GM of all companies should jump at the chance to make a customer happy and keep them. How many people does a happy customer tell, not many - how many does a disgruntled?

SK

[mocha'n'me]

I don't think you have much leverage. 20- 30K over is a lot. I think they charge about $0.16 per km if you didn't purchase any with the lease agreement. If you want out early you just make the remaining payments and return the vehicle. You will also be billed for any additional damage, etc.

I would check if you might be able to break even by buying out the vehicle and selling it yourself. Chances are it has little value. These are the basics of any lease. With any leasing company.

When I returned my Saturn lease they did not offer any incentive aside from $1000 customer loyalty rebate on certain vehicles. GM still has not learned that their only loyal customers are employees that have significant rebates. Perhaps that's why they aren't very successful.

[Kayne]

So you went over your lease and somehow its there fault....interesting.

Have fun dealing with Honda lol

[seankiely]

So you went over your lease and somehow its there fault....interesting.

Have fun dealing with Honda lol


Do you understand the premise of RFD? How about customer loyalty?

Am I asking for something for nothing - no I dont think so, do I need to buy another GM? Do I expect a struggling car company to treat loyal returning customers well?

Why don't you talk to me after you negotiated your next cable or cell bill or PM at FS - the difference between you and me is that I see the big picture here.

SK

[seankiely]

I don't think you have much leverage. 20- 30K over is a lot. I think they charge about $0.16 per km if you didn't purchase any with the lease agreement. If you want out early you just make the remaining payments and return the vehicle. You will also be billed for any additional damage, etc.

I would check if you might be able to break even by buying out the vehicle and selling it yourself. Chances are it has little value. These are the basics of any lease. With any leasing company.

When I returned my Saturn lease they did not offer any incentive aside from $1000 customer loyalty rebate on certain vehicles. GM still has not learned that their only loyal customers are employees that have significant rebates. Perhaps that's why they aren't very successful.


I am not against selling it if i have to - the numbers wont be crystal clear until close to the date, I am anticipating the KM overage, but who knows it could be a lot less. I am at 65K now and have 80K included in the lease.

At that time if I havent done a deal with GM I will look at the numbers and proceed accordingly, sadly though the resale on a 07 Saturn Relay is currently between 11-14K, mine has a lease buyout of about 10K.

The reason I pursued this is to educate myself in advance and be prepared for GM not wanting to budge, or be able to act immediately if they do. Hence the reason I sought out the RFD effect.

Appreciate all the positive responses. :lol:
SK

[antichrysler]

First off, I don't claim to be an expert in this area. I just hear bits and pieces from my father who owns a courier company.

1. Unless you own a business you will always get burnt on a lease.
2. If you have gone over your kms the only way of not having to pay the overage is by buying out the vehicle.
3. There's no such thing as a free lunch. If you went over the kms or damaged the vehicle, you will pay for it. If they agree to "waive" it, they will just role it in to the next vehicle you lease or purchase. If they don't put it down on paper they will just inflate the price of the vehicle you are leasing or purchasing to compensate.
4. If the buyout on the vehicle is greater than the vehicles current value, it IS cheaper to make the remaining payments on the lease and leave the vehicle parked somewhere till the lease expires.
5. If the buyout is less than the current value of the vehicle (not often the case with domestic vehicles) and you want to minimize your losses, pay off the vehicle and drive it till it dies. You have already paid for majority of the depreciation in the first 2 years you drove it.

That's about as much as I've learnt from him in the 6 years he's owned his business. He has about 35 vehicles that he's bought in the 6 years and unless it's a large truck he doesn't bother with leasing. Only time leases work in your favor is if the buyout is significantly less than what the value of the car. IE $1 buyout leases.

[seankiely]

First off, I don't claim to be an expert in this area. I just hear bits and pieces from my father who owns a courier company.

1. Unless you own a business you will always get burnt on a lease.
2. If you have gone over your kms the only way of not having to pay the overage is by buying out the vehicle.
3. There's no such thing as a free lunch. If you went over the kms or damaged the vehicle, you will pay for it. If they agree to "waive" it, they will just role it in to the next vehicle you lease or purchase. If they don't put it down on paper they will just inflate the price of the vehicle you are leasing or purchasing to compensate.
4. If the buyout on the vehicle is greater than the vehicles current value, it IS cheaper to make the remaining payments on the lease and leave the vehicle parked somewhere till the lease expires.
5. If the buyout is less than the current value of the vehicle (not often the case with domestic vehicles) and you want to minimize your losses, pay off the vehicle and drive it till it dies. You have already paid for majority of the depreciation in the first 2 years you drove it.

That's about as much as I've learnt from him in the 6 years he's owned his business. He has about 35 vehicles that he's bought in the 6 years and unless it's a large truck he doesn't bother with leasing. Only time leases work in your favor is if the buyout is significantly less than what the value of the car. IE $1 buyout leases.

Funny you should mention it, parking it is a real option here (its quasi parked now as we drive my wifes car mostly). Selling it is looking like the other option.

I appreciate the response here, that kind of advice is exactly what I am looking for.

I will call GM in a hope to see results - but at this point from all the google and RFD i have seen - its slim chance to none. If this happens GM will loose another customer, and thats fine with me.

SK

[antichrysler]

If you can park it and drive as little as possible that is your best option. If you have to make payments to the remainder of the lease and then the kms you might as well keep it in your driveway or in a field somewhere so it keeps depreciating and costing them more money.

The thing is GM doesn't want their cars back, especially not Saturn since they're shutting them down. They want money, which is why they don't like leasing and likely why they're not doing it anymore.

If it makes you feel any better right now I have an 06 Dakota rotting in my extra parking spot for the exact same reasons. Only thing is it was leased by my dad who doesn't want to pay for the parking for it where he lives. So he flatbedded it over to my place 250km away (since he was coming this way anyways with an empty trailer) and now the Dakota is here till either we can pay someone to take it off our hands or the lease runs out.

It gets driven once a month for 15-20 minutes to charge the battery. Most of the time it's just idled. It's been on the same tank of gas for 4 months... which says something considering the mileage it gets. That was also after I took it on a 300km round trip to pick up my new bike (had to pay my dad for the kms)

[Engi-Nir]

you might be expecting too much, however, if you buy the next vehicle close to MSRP, they(dealership) will have no issues absorbing the cost....the good thing about GMAC lease is, you can pretty much return the car with all stock parts(no replacement of anything), and still they will accept..try that with honda/toyota they will rape you.

[antichrysler]

you might be expecting too much, however, if you buy the next vehicle close to MSRP, they(dealership) will have no issues absorbing the cost....the good thing about GMAC lease is, you can pretty much return the car with all stock parts(no replacement of anything), and still they will accept..try that with honda/toyota they will rape you.

Buying a GM vehicle at close to MSRP is ludicrous. ANY of their vehicles they will always budge anywhere from $2,000 to $15,000 depending on the price.

Lets assume this guy is 20k over on his kms, at $0.16/km that's $3,200. Even if he bought a Cobalt they'll probably say "we'll split the difference with you" so instead of getting $2,000 off he'll get $1,600 off and they might agree to take $400 off the vehicle.

Other than stock parts what else will you return the vehicle with? A body kit? Who in their right mind would put a body kit on a leased vehicle? I suppose you could put an aftermarket door panel or something if the car was in an accident... but why would they prefer that over a stock part? You're not making sense here...

[AGR-1]

You are 30,000 klms over at 10 cents a klms its 3,000 plus excess wear and tear. Lets say $ 4,000.

Lets assume that you need $4,000 to get out of your lease today.

Whichever dealer you visit, whatever you are negotiating, whoever wants to sell you, or lease you another vehicle must assist you with the $ 4,000. Its very simple and done on a regular basis.

Banging heads with your lessor (leasing company) is an unproductive waste of time, the negotiation and money has to come from you and whoever wants to do business with you on your next vehicle.

[Engi-Nir]

Buying a GM vehicle at close to MSRP is ludicrous. ANY of their vehicles they will always budge anywhere from $2,000 to $15,000 depending on the price.

Lets assume this guy is 20k over on his kms, at $0.16/km that's $3,200. Even if he bought a Cobalt they'll probably say "we'll split the difference with you" so instead of getting $2,000 off he'll get $1,600 off and they might agree to take $400 off the vehicle.

Other than stock parts what else will you return the vehicle with? A body kit? Who in their right mind would put a body kit on a leased vehicle? I suppose you could put an aftermarket door panel or something if the car was in an accident... but why would they prefer that over a stock part? You're not making sense here...

lol....I put stock by mistake, just original tires, scratches,etc...they are very lenient.

[BartBandy]

Do you understand the premise of RFD? How about customer loyalty?
Some people seem to think the purpose of RFD is to whine and moan about contracts. Others want to make sure the other side gets screwed in any deal, especially in the Buy/Sell/Trade forum. I never thought it was either, but hey.

I'm almost positive GMAC will not play ball. Your best bet is probably to buy the car out. Your other option is to have that extra $4000 or so that you owe rolled into another vehicle.

What you don't seem to understand is, GMAC doesn't make or sell cars. They are a financing arm. They will get their money. GM may do something for you, if you buy or finance one of their cars, but what they will do for you will be ~$4000 more than what they would have done for you if your pesky lease return didn't come with ~$4000 expected by GMAC.

[i6s1]

I'm sure they will give up on the $4000 that you owe them. I'm sure that's how you'd run a business, buy giving money away to customers.

GM will charge you, same as any other company. You aren't a loyal customer, you're a selfish customer. Loyal customers hold up their end of the deal and don't try to weasel out of obligations.

You owe the $4000, and you should pay it. Period.
You should buy/lease the car that you feel represents the best value. Period.

If you strike off each brand when they hold you to lease terms, eventually you won't have any company to buy from.

[CaptSmethwick]

Sadly, OP, you don't have much leverage right now. I have leased two cars from GMAC and - like virtually every company out there - they are very reluctant to waive what they're due by the legally-binding leasing agreement.

It's also important to understand here that GMAC and GM are entirely separate companies but the GM dealerships you're dealing with for a new vehicle have way more clout with GMAC than you ever would - but they're still going to have very limited impact in your circumstances. And blaming GM and threatening to never buy from them again are misplaced here (although you're obviously free to do whatever you wish) - again, GM and its dealers can have influence but it is limited.

Now, that being said, GM has frequently subsidized GMAC to offer attractive financing and lease buy-outs on selected models but they haven't done lease pull-forwards in Canada in a long, long while (a couple of years at least AFAIK). So, I wouldn't expect GM to offer you anything but whatever loyalty allowance is being offered at the time you're ready to buy. As you've been told, the most they'll be able to do is roll your remaining payments into your new vehicle. Unless...

When I returned an '04 Cadillac last year, I was several 000 kms over and paid ~$900 in a mileage penalty (no wear and tear as the vehicle was immaculate). Given that my buyback was several $000 higher than its value, I was happy to pay the $900 and let GMAC take it back. Incidentally, though, my dealership explored the option of a negotiated buyback and was succesful in getting GMAC to agree to a number that was several $000 lower than what was in my lease agreement and very close to market value. The guy who did this was a career GM sales guy and one of the tops in the region - and a guy who knew me personally and socially for several years. IOW, he didn't do this for everybody.

So, if you get a really good, experienced, and interested GM sales person who wants to work for you, they may be able to do something. But, my experience is that there are very few out there with the skills or interest to do this - still, if they know that this is what it'll take to get your business on a new Acadia, it just might work for you. Given the dollar values you cite, though, I wouldn't expect much beyond a token - and I wouldn't expect it at this point in your lease (you're just too far away from the end).

I suspect that you may find a lease-end buyback to be more attractive than it currently appears. If the car's worth $11-14k now and your buyback is $10k, the price won't be far off the market value and you would avoid the mileage overage and wear and tear expenses (and they'll be looking to find things wrong with the vehicle - leased minivans are notorious for taking a beating).

Good luck

[mpsrent]

I've leased a number of GM vehicles (until recent). Three years ago I ended a lease where I was 80k over my limit due to a career change that resulted in far more travel than was ever expected when I bought the car.

None of this was GMAC's fault which as noted by other posters is a finance company and not GM the auto manufacturer whose dealer sold me the car. I tried the loyalty factor to no avail, GMAC made it clear they were a different company for which I had entered a contract with.

What is often not mentioned is the fact that GMAC provides the leasing dealer, the people who leased you the car with a first right of refusal to purchase your lease return. Otherwise the car goes through a pre-arranged auction process. Often the deal the leasing dealer is offered is considerably less than the buyout.

Being $80k over, I had to buy the car. The penalty fees would have cost me too much. My leasing dealer helped me. He bought out the vehicle at a discounted rate of $9,000, some $5,000 less than my lease buyout and then released the vehicle to me on a short term lease which as soon as the paperwork was finalized, I ended with a new purchase through the dealer. While not a perfect deal, it certainly helped me get partially out of a jamb.

If you aren't buying a new GM product your best option is to cut your losses by running to the end of the lease term and buying out the vehicle.

[JAC]

I'm pretty sure you can buy extra kilometers at a cheaper price BEFORE the lease expires. You're going to pay at any rate, so you might as well pay less.

Based on past experience with GMAC, no, they will not waive any remaining payments or overage kilometers. Threatening them isn't going to make a difference, either. They're finance, not a dealership, so they could care less if you buy another GM car.